Is want the same as need?

I was out with a girlfriend last night, and we ended up in a heated debate about whether to need someone is the same as wanting them.

You know the standard cliche of


" I love you, therefore I need you..." versus

" I need you, therefore I love you..."

I argue that if you love someone then yes - you need them. You don't need them because you can't survive, but you do need them because they fulfill your emotional being - given they are someone you love.

My friend thinks this is dysfunctional and unhealthy. She argues that you don't need anyone !! :rolleyes: ..........despite you love a partner.

What is the real difference ?
Is it just semantics, or is there any validity behind such an argument?
I would love to know what others think.

bye for now, Lorraine........;)

I hope to never NEED a significant other in my life. To me that means that I have a dependency on that person to fulfill a need in my life. And I kinda think I can fulfill all my own needs quite well. But to choose to have someone in my life - I can think of no greater thing. To want that person to be part of my life. Awesome.

Originally posted by onetiger
I hope to never NEED a significant other in my life. To me that means that I have a dependency on that person to fulfill a need in my life. And I kinda think I can fulfill all my own needs quite well. But to choose to have someone in my life - I can think of no greater thing. To want that person to be part of my life. Awesome.
Well said, and expresses my view exactly.

Not only do I not see myself as having some sort of emotional void or emptiness in my life that I NEED another person to fill (and I am not in a relationship atm), but I also do not want to be NEEDED by someone else -- that's a heavy burden to place on another person.

All I ask of a future hypothetical SO is to enhance what I already have in my life by sharing it.

Hmmm . . . I do think for people to be fully emotionally happy, they do need to have love in their life . . . meaning people to love and people who love them. Now as we discussed on another thread, I think there are different types of love so I'm not going there on this one.

I am the ultimate "Miss Independence" and like to think I don't need anyone at all. But the truth of the matter is, I might be able to survive quite nicely and even be happy without anyone at all, but I wouldn't have the same level of emotional health as I do when I have someone to love and someone who loves me. As much as we don't like to admit it, there are some things we can't provide for ourselves and one of those things is the love received from another person.

If one wanted to argue semantics then the word need means something that you have to have to accomplish something else; e.g. you need a boat in order to waterski (meaning you can't waterski without a boat) -- and want means something that you would like to have; e.g. you want a boat so you can waterski (meaning you want to waterski so you want a boat in order to do that).

A person may think they need another person because they love them, but the truth of the matter is that they would survive if they did not have that person in their lives. One of my best friends likes to say that, if nothing else, one thing we have learned by the time we reach our age is that we will survive even if our relationship doesn't. I totally agree with her.

Many people have survive quite nicely without a SO...but those who do so, fill that need or want with something else that gives them just as much joy as another human being. I think of the enormous work and effort that Mother Theresa put forth in her life. And Ghandi, that kind of selfless devotion is based on an incredible need to bring joy to others lives, to forget about self. There are not many people who are willing to forgo, a life partner, for charitable acts of kindness without any monetary, physical or materlistic return.

those people who say that we as humans beings were meant for human contact have miss the big picture. Yes, there are some things that we can't learn alone, I believe the reason God created marriage is so that we can learn one basic golden rule, that is to learn to love our companion, unconditionally, with no reservations, with respect to his postives and his negatives. It is not an easy task. It is the same kind of love for which He shows to us who as imperfect. Of cause, we as humans, put other criterias and restrictions on our own love for another...we listen to the world and the voices of others who may or may not have our best interest at heart.

Peachy quote:
I am the ultimate "Miss Independence" and like to think I don't need anyone at all. But the truth of the matter is, I might be able to survive quite nicely and even be happy without anyone at all, but I wouldn't have the same level of emotional health as I do when I have someone to love and someone who loves me. As much as we don't like to admit it, there are some things we can't provide for ourselves and one of those things is the love received from another person.

Believe it or not, I am Miss Independent as well...I'm very happy w/out the love of a SO, I think because I am so well loved from my family and friends, that it gives me such incredible joy that I don't feel the need to go out and find anyone most of the time. When I was younger it was depressing to think I wouldn't find anyone, I got tired of the "why not me" questions, that was emotionally unhealthy and then as I got older, I realize that I've not lived such a bad life, I regret not having children, yes, but I was content and happy. Maybe because I wasn't so focus on myself and what I didn't have and focus on what I do have. That whole proverb about being in the service of others was so life saving for me. Anyone who comes into my life now, will find a different woman all together then i was when I was say 30...I can either take a risk to love unconditionally or I can live with as much joy as Mother Theresa and not worry about tomorrow, it WILL take care of itself.

Paris

Originally posted by peachy51
Hmmm . . . I do think for people to be fully emotionally happy, they do need to have love in their life . . . meaning people to love and people who love them. Now as we discussed on another thread, I think there are different types of love so I'm not going there on this one.

I am the ultimate "Miss Independence" and like to think I don't need anyone at all. But the truth of the matter is, I might be able to survive quite nicely and even be happy without anyone at all, but I wouldn't have the same level of emotional health as I do when I have someone to love and someone who loves me. As much as we don't like to admit it, there are some things we can't provide for ourselves and one of those things is the love received from another person.

If one wanted to argue semantics then the word need means something that you have to have to accomplish something else; e.g. you need a boat in order to waterski (meaning you can't waterski without a boat) -- and want means something that you would like to have; e.g. you want a boat so you can waterski (meaning you want to waterski so you want a boat in order to do that).

A person may think they need another person because they love them, but the truth of the matter is that they would survive if they did not have that person in their lives. One of my best friends likes to say that, if nothing else, one thing we have learned by the time we reach our age is that we will survive even if our relationship doesn't. I totally agree with her.

Peachy, you pretty much nailed my opinion. I am a firm believer that human beings simply thrive much better with someone that they can love and will love them in return. Therefore, I DO believe we all need someone. So many studies have shown that babies do not thrive without love and attention. It's the same for adults. We do survive without it, but we are much happier with it.

But, that does not mean that I think we need someone else to make us happy. Happiness comes from within.

Yes, Katrina, and I also believe that in order to be happy with someone else, you first have to be happy with yourself. And I believe, for the most part, we make our own happiness. Hmmm . . . ironic that this thread was posted the same day as the "Glass half full/half empty" thread.

Originally posted by Trish
My life is a puzzle that's almost complete....just one tiny corner piece missing. If you don't look into that corner, you'll still see a full, beautiful picture.

Trish, I think that is a wonderful way to sum it up! :D

Originally posted by whiterose
Happiness comes from within.

Exactly!!! And as my boy Aristotle would say,

"To live happily is an inward power of the soul."

'nuff said!

I associate the word "need" with "survival".
I need oxygen.
I want chocolate.
There is a difference in the two.

Do we need to love and be loved?
Yes
We need to love ourselves.
Funny how so many people neglect that.

I agree with most that have posted here-
wanting to have a partner to love suits me much
better than the bondage that comes with needing.
Not to mention the huge responsibility it places on the
person that you declare you need.
(As Savannah already mentioned)

When we love someone-
there are needs we want met.
Such as:
"I need you to listen to me"
as opposed to:
"I want you to listen to me"
Or
"I need you to be honest"
as opposed to:
"I want you to be honest."
Which of these sentences make a larger impact?
Then of course there is:
"I need to have sex with you"
as opposed to:
"I want to make love with you".
Hmmmmmmm?

Trish
All I have to say is,
it is much better to have that puzzle missing a piece
there in the corner rather than force some unsightly
piece that doesn't fit or match.
It's funny how with some people-
it will drive them crazy if they can't finish that puzzle
and eventually all they see, is that vacant spot.




<FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=768A76 FACE="Lucida Handwriting">~Sage~ </FONT><img src="http://ChasingDownTheBlue.homestead.com/files/femme.gif">

<FONT SIZE=2 COLOR=Black FACE="Tempus Sans ITC">Could it be that I never had the chance to grow inside?
Could it be that my habit is to find a place to hide?
Could it be that sometimes I say things just to disagree?
Could it be that I'm only being me?
Not easy living in my mind
a little peace is hard to find
my every thought is undermined
by all the history inside</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=Black FACE="Freestyle Script">Staind</FONT>

As much as we don't like to admit it, there are some things we can't provide for ourselves and one of those things is the love received from another person.

This is a great quote by peachy51.

I have to say that the irony of my debate last night was such a contradiction of words. In the midst of our debate my friend refered to me as an example. She said that my being at dinner with her last night was not a need. Thus, she said that she doesn't need me.

The irony is, we were tossing up about going to a movie earlier that day, but couldn't decide which one. I had too much on during the day, and ultimately said - "let's do it next week". She on the other hand, demonstrated a real `need' to have done something last night. We have been friends for over 30 years, and often just except when one doesn't want to do something on a particular weekend. YET - she came up with a number of things to do. She clearly had a need for attention. Whether she wants to admit it or not, she did need to see me yesterday. She could have done something with another friend, but often doesn't want to. Our 30 year friendship has roots that clearly define a need.

I think peachy is spot on by saying that we need `love'. It may not necessarily be with the same person for whatever reason, but we continue on our journey to find love with one person that often, is experienced with many people throughout our lives because we look for the `right' one. Despite the hurt and upset we go through with various partners - we still continue to seek `a need'.

Yes, I too am Miss Independent. I have a wonderful career, wonderful children and friends. I love who I am and my own company. However, career, family and friends AND other interests can only fulfil certain `needs'.

Research has shown that people can not survive without others. If we removed everyone around us completely, would any of us survive? I say not.

At best, someone who has NO ONE in their lives [be it parents, family, friends, lover etc] are often seen living on the streets in a very distressing and humiliating presence. They have no support to help them. And at worst - people die from loneliness.

I often think that people are too afraid to admit that they need their partner for fear of not conforming to society and it's ideologies. I think many people don't want to be seen as being `dependent' for fear of having a problem. So they hide behind theories that dismiss the need versus want debate. If we don't need our partners, that means we don't need our families or friends. Why then, do we as humans keep looking for partners, if we don't need them?

Having studied sociology, I remember reading some research about a number of babies who were left in an orphange with no love. These babies were simply fed and had their nappies changed. At no time were any of these babies picked up for a cuddle or kiss. As a result - they ALL died.

Love and kisses to all.........Lorraine. ;)

We all need love and support from other people in our lives. We're not islands. But we do not need a particular person to be the source of that, as much as we may want them to be.

There are always other options for getting the companionship that we need: other people who may come into our lives in a vareity of ways and fill needs for emotional support, intellectual stimulation, or sexual expression.

No doubt when people leave us, there can be a gap for a while that hurts. But almost always, we find other people to fill those voids (sometimes several other people) and we go on.

We need "somebody" or "somebodies", but we need HIM - that's a want.
:)

I need my husband's love. I guess someone elses would do,
but I want his. I do not need him to support me or see that I am taken care of. But I sure do need him.........his being, his mind, the things he does and his love. I don't think that is giving up independence. That is being totally human and letting another person in.

Originally posted by Lorraine
I often think that people are too afraid to admit that they need their partner for fear of not conforming to society and it's ideologies. I think many people don't want to be seen as being `dependent' for fear of having a problem. So they hide behind theories that dismiss the need versus want debate. If we don't need our partners, that means we don't need our families or friends. Why then, do we as humans keep looking for partners, if we don't need them?

Why do I keep running to 7-11 for Reeses' Fast Break bars?
I don't need them- I want them.

Having studied sociology, I remember reading some research about a number of babies who were left in an orphange with no love. These babies were simply fed and had their nappies changed. At no time were any of these babies picked up for a cuddle or kiss. As a result - they ALL died.
Love and kisses to all.........Lorraine. ;)

They didn't die from lack of love-
they died from lack of human contact.

Plus, I doubt that these babies actually died from lack
of a kiss or a cuddle.
Granted they most likely were not thriving as best
they could, but to just languish until death arrived-
I have a hard time believing that.
(Especially if their nourishment and physical health needs were met)

I would also like to add that I don't want a man to need me.
Geeesh- what a heavy weight that is.

I do understand what you are trying to state here-
and I respect your right to feel the way you do.
But I am not fearful of others viewing me as dependent -
I refuse to feel dependent upon a man because I have
taked myself into "needing" him.

What about the people that don't have partners for whatever reason?
Should they run around totally freaking out because they don't have something they think they need?
I have known many women and men that live very full lives
without a partner.

I look at it this way-
having a partner is like eating chocolate.
I am not going to perish without either one-
but life is a lot sweeter with it.




<FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=768A76 FACE="Lucida Handwriting">~Sage~ </FONT><img src="http://ChasingDownTheBlue.homestead.com/files/femme.gif">

<FONT SIZE=2 COLOR=Black FACE="Tempus Sans ITC">Could it be that I never had the chance to grow inside?
Could it be that my habit is to find a place to hide?
Could it be that sometimes I say things just to disagree?
Could it be that I'm only being me?
Not easy living in my mind
a little peace is hard to find
my every thought is undermined
by all the history inside</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=Black FACE="Freestyle Script">Staind</FONT>

Originally posted by Sage
Plus, I doubt that these babies actually died from lack
of a kiss or a cuddle.
Granted they most likely were not thriving as best
they could, but to just languish until death arrived-
I have a hard time believing that.
(Especially if their nourishment and physical health needs were met)


When I was taking Developmental Psych, my prof brought this up a few times so he'd make sure we understood.

Babies DIE from not being hugged, cuddled, and loved. They give up their will to live, and eventually they won't eat or take any interest in anything. They simply give up and fade away.

It's called "failure to thrive", and sadly it's thought to be the cause of some crib deaths. (Not all but some...)

Our prof said to us, "Don't make the mistake of thinking that never holding or cuddling a child will merely result in irreparable psychological damage. That child will die. It's a death sentence."

It really made an impression on me, knowing that human touch and tenderness is so vital.

Originally posted by ScarletHawke
Our prof said to us, "Don't make the mistake of thinking that never holding or cuddling a child will merely result in irreparable psychological damage. That child will die. It's a death sentence."
It really made an impression on me, knowing that human touch and tenderness is so vital.

Point taken and I will take your word for it.

I am not saying that human beings do not need to reach
out and nurture one another.
But a woman does not need a man to thrive.
If that were the case, becoming a "spinster" would be
a death sentence.
Maybe some women would rather be dead than face
a life alone without a man, but many women do just fine
without a partner.

We talk about nurturing and touching-
but what about all the peope that are dying inside
from fear and isolation,
yet they are surrounded by family and friends?

We place so much importance on "needing" a man
or woman to love us, yet, we forego having faith in our
Higher Power and loving ourselves and loving the simple gift
of being alive.

There is so much talk about what people need it
makes me want to hurl.
We need to be happy. We need validation. We need
closure. We need counseling. We need to cut out the carbs.
We need to quit dwelling on what we
"think" we need!
We have become this whiny needy society
that cannot be fullfilled.
That is the mind-set that annoys me.

Yes, when I love a man I want him to hug me-
but more importantly- I want to hug him.
Life's happiness is not all about needing and getting.
It comes from giving.

How many people walk up to another and say:
"I need a hug" compared to how many times a person
walks up to another and says:
"I want to give you a hug".

In another thread it is asked if our glass
is "half empty or half full".
Once again, it's all about fullfilling oursleves.

Ageless is exceptional in the genuine care and concern
that is shown towards others.
Please don't take my frustration as being a slap
against the fine peole that come here.
I am angry at a mentality that has consumed society
in general.

I don't need it, nor do I want it!



<FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=768A76 FACE="Lucida Handwriting">~Sage~ </FONT><img src="http://ChasingDownTheBlue.homestead.com/files/femme.gif">

<FONT SIZE=2 COLOR=Black FACE="Tempus Sans ITC">Could it be that I never had the chance to grow inside?
Could it be that my habit is to find a place to hide?
Could it be that sometimes I say things just to disagree?
Could it be that I'm only being me?
Not easy living in my mind
a little peace is hard to find
my every thought is undermined
by all the history inside</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=Black FACE="Freestyle Script">Staind</FONT>

I am not saying that human beings do not need to reach
out and nurture one another.
But a woman does not need a man to thrive.
If that were the case, becoming a "spinster" would be
a death sentence.
Maybe some women would rather be dead than face
a life alone without a man, but many women do just fine
without a partner.

We talk about nurturing and touching-
but what about all the peope that are dying inside
from fear and isolation,
yet they are surrounded by family and friends?

We place so much importance on "needing" a man
or woman to love us, yet, we forego having faith in our
Higher Power and loving ourselves and loving the simple gift
of being alive.

[........]

Ageless is exceptional in the genuine care and concern
that is shown towards others.
Please don't take my frustration as being a slap
against the fine peole that come here.
I am angry at a mentality that has consumed society
in general.

I don't need it, nor do I want it!

--- Sage

Sage, Sage, Sage.... (sigh)

Honey chile, you needs to git yo'self a MAN!

Ain't no two ways about it, sugar!

M-A-N! = Necessary! = Cannot do without!

Someone to have you some great sex with, to help
corral those "chirren," keep that car running....and
last, but not least, to make sure that toilet seat
stays in the upright position. :D :p :) LOL

Originally posted by Harrison
Sage, Sage, Sage.... (sigh)

Honey chile, you needs to git yo'self a MAN!

Ain't no two ways about it, sugar!

M-A-N! = Necessary! = Cannot do without!

Someone to have you some great sex with, to help
corral those "chirren," keep that car running....and
last, but not least, to make sure that toilet seat
stays in the upright position. LOL

I'll hold him, Sage. You hit him. Repeatedly. ;)

Originally posted by Sage
...How many people walk up to another and say:
"I need a hug" compared to how many times a person
walks up to another and says:
"I want to give you a hug".


Very good point, Sage - I do agree that this is all too often overlooked (and yes, by me too ;) ) ...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen this here yet. There are many thngs I need in life...money (enough to support myself and my kids), food (ditto) and love (that of my family). I also need the love of a man, but that is a need that I can SURVIVE without. I know it's semantics, but all the same, there is difference between life and survival.

Lynn - - -

I think part of it is if a person let's someone know they need them, then they have opened up a vulnerability and let that person know they have the ability to hurt them. So I think there has to be an utmost trust involved in letting someone know you feel a need for them. Because when you acknowledge that, you have opened a door that some are afraid to even crack if they have been hurt before.

I do believe that people need other people. People who are isolated from all human contact for a period of time begin to go insane I think. Some people who are isolated find alternatives even if it is a volleyball named "Wilson." :D

I would never say that I don't NEED people in my life. But one particular one? No. I want my father, my mother, my brother, my sister-in-law, my best friend, etc in my life. Would it hurt dreadfully if they left it? Yes. Indeed. But would I die without them? No. Would my life be less without them. Perhaps...there would be a void of some sort. But I could continue on in life, be happy eventually. So - that's why I put my original statement in. There will never be one person who I need to have in my life. But there is a need to have love in my life, be it from family, friends or significant others. I guess that's one reason why I never felt that there was just one soulmate out there or just one person for me...or even that I needed to get married or have children. I find love in so many places and in many different ways. But it took a long time for me to come to this place. And perhaps it's why I think I'll be a better partner once I find the right guy for me (if it does happen).

Originally posted by Sage
In another thread it is asked if our glass
is "half empty or half full".
Once again, it's all about fullfilling oursleves.


As the person that started the glass half empty vs half full thread, I just want to clarify that the purpose of that particular thread was not to discuss "fullfilling ourselves". Rather, it was about whether you view things from a positive standpoint or a negative standpoint. It was about our attitude and had nothing to do with this topic.

I agree, Sally. I think our opinions do change based upon our life experiences. I read somewhere once that we change our attitudes and opinions about every 10 years.

Having said that, I think there are distinctly two different groups of people. One group acknowledges that humans NEED a loving, healthy relationship. I fall in this group. Although I acknowledged that we can all survive physically without one, we feel that we survive much better and are healthier, happier people while IN one.

Here's what I am understanding about what the other group is trying to convey (just paraphrasing here, so please correct me if I am wrong).... I am hearing you say that you acknowledge that humans do in fact NEED other people in order to live a healthier emotional life. But, you feel that what is dangerous is when people feel that they need only ONE particular person. Maybe that's co-dependency? I don't know. Did I understand you correctly. If so, then I can see that go two ways.

I agree that when we get to the point where we feel that our happiness depends upon one other person, that's where we put ourselves at risk for being hurt. That's where I said that happiness starts from within.

But, I also know that there are certain things that I NEED from a partner. I need a partner who cares about my well-being. I need a partner who equally shares in the give and take in the relationship. I need a partner who can remain calm and talk things through with me. I need a partner who can make me laugh. I need a partner who loves and accepts me just as I am. I need a partner who values my opinion. Because Remi meets all those qualifications, then in my view, I do in fact NEED him. Having him in my life does help complete my happiness. He does fill in that missing puzzle piece. Of course I would manage without him in my life. But, my life is much better with him in it. I am not going to build my world around him, but instead I see him as a partner.... someone that I can give my love to, and I can expect will love me in return. Yes, I need him.

You're right, Sally. It's all semantics. And, it's all about our opinions based upon our experiences in life and where we stand now. We're all different and no way will 100% of the people ever agree on this issue. This has been debated so many times here on ageless. But, hey, if we were all alike, wouldn't it be a boring place? :D

Originally posted by ScarletHawke
I'll hold him, Sage. You hit him. Repeatedly. ;)

Thanks ScarletHawke-
but it really isn't worth the effort.

Besides, just from reading Harrison's post towards me,
it's quite obvious that someone has already beaten all the
sense out of him.


<FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=768A76 FACE="Lucida Handwriting">~Sage~ </FONT><img src="http://ChasingDownTheBlue.homestead.com/files/femme.gif">

<FONT SIZE=2 COLOR=Black FACE="Tempus Sans ITC">Could it be that I never had the chance to grow inside?
Could it be that my habit is to find a place to hide?
Could it be that sometimes I say things just to disagree?
Could it be that I'm only being me?
Not easy living in my mind
a little peace is hard to find
my every thought is undermined
by all the history inside</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=5 COLOR=Black FACE="Freestyle Script">Staind</FONT>

originally posted by Trish

I concentrate on the part of the puzzle that's complete. It's full and beautiful without the missing piece. It always will be. There might have been a time in my life when I would have tried to make a piece fit. But that doesn't add to my happiness. If it's not right, it only takes away from it. I've learned that loving someone and being loved is one of the best things in life. But I've also learned there are alot worse things than being alone.

Trish~

You took the words right out of my mouth. :)

This is an interesting debate. I think we all need people. Human beings crave the love, attention, and comfort of other human beings. Its a basic necessity for us... like air and water. However, do we need a particular relationship? And how much does the feminist movement play a role in how we, as women, feel our independence from the "bondage" of that "need" for a romantic relationship?

I love the puzzle analogy and like to think of that for myself too (I'm still working on a lot of that picture tho ;)). However, I wonder if I am influenced by my feminist notions of independence and therefore resistant to the idea of "needing" a man in my life. I know I have consciously raised my kids to believe that a person is a complete person WITHOUT a partner. However, I do think that we are socially influenced by the movements in the 60s and 70s to attach to these notions.

Yes, this thread has reminded me of the old saying, "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle".

Since I grew up without love/affection/comfort -- and mainly negative attention -- from the ages of 4 1/2 to 16? 17? (depending on how much quality of love you believe exists in teenage romances), I guess I don't want to think that this was such a glaring omission that I am irrevocably Damaged Goods because of it. (Granted, I have 4 failed LTR in the past 22 yrs, but that's not really a horrific track record, is it?)

I'd rather believe that I learned to cope by finding appropriate and equivalent substitutes to meet my emotional needs. And I do know that the "appropriate substitute" thing was very much a trial and error process in my teens :rolleyes: .

Savannah -- Actually the saying on the t-shirt I almost bought once said: "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" :D

Originally posted by peachy51
Savannah -- Actually the saying on the t-shirt I almost bought once said: "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" :D
Ooooh noooooo!! The "N" word!!!! :eek:

Trish, have I told you lately that I love you? :)

I have a tendency to credit anything that is good and positive about myself to the fact that my grandparents (who thought the sun rose and set on me) were responsible for my upbringing during those early "formative" years. But there are too many variables indeed. Who knows whether their influence laid enough of a foundation to see me through, or if it was my own innate resilience that saved me -- or a combination of factors?

Although all but one of those relationships ended fairly amicably (and one ex even remains a very close friend), I do think that their emotional quality was highly questionable. None of those men, including the one that I married, was one I could describe as a "soulmate" -- despite being "in love" with each of them, at some point.

On the other hand, if I don't know what I'm missing -- ignorance is bliss! :p