Double Standard?

After reading the personals section here, I was struck by some thoughts, and wondering what the rest of you thought. Could be that my perceptions are way off, but here goes.

It seems that when a young man comes here seeking a purely physical relationship, we are quick to let him know that this is not a pick-up place, but when a woman comes here looking for the same, she's not reminded about the kind of site this is. In fact, she's applauded for knowing what she wants. Does not the young man who comes here looking for sex know what he wants?

I personally have no problem with anyone looking for some diversion, or friendship with benefits, or a purely sexual relationship/encounter. Hey, what two people do is their own business, and I've had my own version of the FWB, so I know sometimes where people are coming from. However, we seem to have a double standard here. Is this a pick up place or not? How do we want our site to be? Do we encourage or discourage young men looking for MILFs, or older women looking for boytoys? I'm asking, because I see how ym and ow are treated a bit differently. Just wondering about your thoughts on this.

I think there are other sites people can go to for such things, and I'd personally like to see Ageless be more of a support site and for people interested in the relationship aspect. In that sense, it makes Ageless unique, a haven, and unlike all those other sites, where it's more important to find someone for diversion... but that's just me.

I don't believe we should exclude anyone. But if we are going to remind young men of what Ageless is about, then we have to remind the women who come here too. It's only fair. Maybe if people knew, then they could decide whether or not Ageless is where they should be.

I totally agree with you Gen. I was quite surprised that people were basically applauding the woman poster looking for a "BOY"...had any YM came here looking for an "Old Woman" and were all over him like piranhas..how dare he..;)

Nice observation Gen...I think those reminders need to go both ways. :)

And then to applaud her for knowing what she wants? How insulting, if you think about it.. like usually women are too dumb to know what they want? So.. hooray for you? You know what you want, what a good girl, you know what you want and aren't afraid to say so. Here's a cookie. But if a young man comes here and says he just wants an older playmate.. he has no manners? He's being rude and/or insulting? Or is it ok for older women to think of young men as boytoys, but not ok for younger men to think of older women as the sexually experienced teacher/seductress? Which is it? Isn't this all part of the stereotype of the ym/ow relationship that Ageless tries to work against? I think we don't realize how sexist we are here sometimes, to both men and women.

I've noticed a bit of a double standard as well, for the same reasons.

We say we want "honesty", yet it seems that we have less tolerance for honesty when it involves wanting a casual relationship. For some posters, openness and honesty result in acclaim; for others, they bring derision -- which depends entirely on the content, since none of us can know the sincerity of the post.

I see a lot of one-post members who have a personal ad, and contribute nothing else here. So if they confine themselves to the Personals forum, they don't have much effect on me. I think the lack of public responses to many of those ads give the OP a pretty clear indication of the tone of the site. It IS somewhat misleading to have a personal ad forum if the site is exclusively for the support of committed relationships. (And I do remember that it was locked when the separate dating site was running -- so they infiltrated Chit Chat instead.:rolleyes: )

Originally posted by Genevieve
I don't believe we should exclude anyone. But if we are going to remind young men of what Ageless is about, then we have to remind the women who come here too. It's only fair. Maybe if people knew, then they could decide whether or not Ageless is where they should be.

I agree completely with you that we should treat everyone equally. I seem to recall one specific female poster who made it clear that she was only interested in a sexual relationship and was definitely looking here for someone to fit the bill and the way I remember it is that she did NOT receive a very welcome reception here at all. But, I must have missed the post where the woman was applauded.

I also agree that it seems a bit contradictory for people to be able to post personal ads here when in fact, this is supposed to be a relationship support site.

Yet, at the same time, there are plenty of YM who do come here who are genuinely interested in meeting an OW and not just for casual sex, but for a real relationship. And, it seems that this would be a good place to meet one as there are plenty of available OW who do post here who are not in a relationship currently.

I don't have the answers to what you are asking Gen. I'm talking out loud!! But I agree completely that it's a bit confusing! :confused:

Hairy subject.

I find it great to see this dicussion going on here. I for one have also thought there were some double standards in the way people react to the posts. But whiterose is right, there was a post by a woman that was also criticized, although those are so rare we tend to think they are trolls. And this sounds like prejudice, doesn't it?

What do you think about posters who seek a -let's be clear- purely sexual relationship?

Do you think that by allowing such ads, we change the image of the site? Do they make us look like a pick up site? Or should we just allow those posts as long as they are not gross, so that people can have this other option- to meet sexual partners?

I would love to hear your opinions, knowing that there are probably many answers to these questions and many flexible ways to deal with this. I haven't made up my mind and I hope by discussing we can have lots of different point of views.

The ultimate decision belongs to the owner of the site, of course, but we can all benefit from this discussion.

Well,

Personally I have talked to a few of those looking for a casual relationship with an older woman. They have never had one before and they don't know where to go, only they realize that they are attracted to the "idea" and some even attracted to specific ones and it didn't end up working out for whatever reason so they go searching only to hit a brick wall most of the time...

Then of course, there are those who are looking for a committed relationship but again, where does one find that? So they come here hoping that they might be able to connect to find out what is going on with their desires/feelings etc...

As a non-single person who found my love by mistake or shall I say be happenstance, I feel for those who truly desire a connection but have Zero idea how to go about it. Sometimes I am at a loss as to what to tell people other than "Be yourself" and maybe just maybe something will happen for them. *shrugs*

I have jumped on a female poster before who came here flaunting her casual hookups. She kept saying it should be "no big deal" but I just found it distasteful and said so. Maybe it was just her attitude that I didn't care for. Ironically, I am less offended when males do the same thing though. I know that the stereotype being presented paints the opposite picture and for some reason I am guessing I am in the minority on that one.

Upon reflection, I believe that we should allow such conversation and we should allow personals as a site where singles are looking for a relationship, and that can be a relationship of their choosing, be it FB, FWB, or LT. Where else are they going to go?

Just my vote...

As I've said, I dont' have a problem with people looking for something casual, and I agree, a lot has to do with a person's attitude about it. You are posting on a public board asking for young male students?

There are other sites out there that cater to people looking for casual encounters. Many of them. Adult Friend Finders, Yahoo Groups and MSN Groups have lots of older women/younger men sexually oriented sites. Is Ageless right for those people looking for booty?? I don't know. :confused:

There are very few sites like Ageless though. I really would not like to see Ageless become just another pick-up site like the many others out there. Ageless is set apart, and I would like it to stay that way for the most part. I'm here, because it's different from those other sites, and believe me, as a single woman, I've been to those sites.. and left them, because you do not find the community and caring that we have here. I don't want that to change.

I think it's contradictory to have a special section for personal ads, but then tell posters that this is not a "pick up" site. I'd be confused if I were them!

And, when we had that section locked for so long, people still posted here looking anyway.

Just some suggestions...

I say leave the personal ads, but let's stop putting so much emphasis on ageless being ONLY a relationship support site. But, keep personal ads, in the personal ad section. In other words, when someone posts in relationship support or chit chat that they are looking to meet someone, move those threads to the personal ad section with an explanation that those types of posts go there.

There are other sites out there that cater to people looking for casual encounters. Many of them. Adult Friend Finders, Yahoo Groups and MSN Groups have lots of older women/younger men sexually oriented sites. Is Ageless right for those people looking for booty?? I don't know.

Ahh...see I have never looked before so didn't realize there were other places that catered specifically to OlderWomen/YoungerMen etc...

Ok I am out of touch.

So what about those who aren't looking for something casual? Will these places also enable them to meet a Quality Older Woman?

Why do they come HERE is a question I have...
What is it about this site that encourages that (haha..besides the personals section.. anything else?)

There aren't too many "quality" places for older women/younger men. Ageless is one of them, and in fact one of the only message boards that I know of that I would consider "quality", if you are single.

Agematch is a dating site where you can specify the kind of relationship you are looking for and that is fairly good. I think what happens is that someone does a Google search on older women or younger men, and Ageless is one of the sites that comes up, but it is assumed to be a pick-up site.

Most of the other sites cater to the very stereotypes we try to fight every day.

Gen - - -

I agree with you completely . . . I was just reading the post by the new woman today at lunch and told Joe basically the same thing you said in your original post. If this had been a guy, he would have been immediately blasted, but she was applauded . . . WTF?

And Whiterose, I also agree with you that if we are going to have a personal ads section, what exactly is it for? We already have a section for new members to introduce themselves. If the personal ads section is not for people to post their ad as to what they are looking for, why do we have it at all? :confused:

Originally posted by MariaLux
What do you think about posters who seek a -let's be clear- purely sexual relationship?
My personal opinion is that I'd rather know clearly up front what the person is interested in. Then at least one has no illusions about what to expect.

I'd far rather see "I'm just looking for sexual experience" than the YM who IS genuinely just looking for a fling, but posts "I think mature woman are more confident/easier to talk to/hotter than girls my own age" only because he's lurked here long enough to know that's what will meet with the group's approval.

I would hate to see board participation so narrowly defined that it excludes people who are NOT in a relationship, because that would mean ME. :(

Originally posted by Savannah

I would hate to see board participation so narrowly defined that it excludes people who are NOT in a relationship, because that would mean ME. :(

Same here, Savannah. :(

Its too bad this site shut down, it kept the integrity of this site in tact and it gave others the opportunity to seek out those relationships they were looking for.

In the last 3 months all I've gotten is casual sex only. There's gotta be a way to weed out those characters so they can hook up with others seeking the same. It cheapens me and cheapens this site into another hedonistic site of women who don't want to age by being with boy toys and boy toys who think ow are only good for the a roll in the hay.

I say toss out the New members post, create a Singles thread...I say separate the subject matter. Those who want casual and those who are looking for long term (ym/ow), I don't want to figure out if this person is male or female by their IDs. the truth of the matter is, as much as you don't want to turn this site into a dating site...we also advise any new person to post so we can get to know them...if that's not inviting a more conservative approach to finding a mate, i don't know what is. And as I mention before, it also lets those of us who are single (guys or ow), be known before lengthy conversation on the public forum only to be told they're involve with someone. the ones who are involve don't even have to venture into the singles category and be the welcome committee, they can continue to post as usual, in support of others. That's my 2 cents.

Paris

I wondered what happened to that post over there--:p

anyway, I agree with Irparis. The dating site kept us insulated from the personal ads and now they are very easily accessible. Not only are we exposed to them, but the OPs are exposed to our opinions which probably shock a few of them who havent bothered to take the time to learn what type of community this is.

If we have a dating site OR a section for personal ads, we cannot control if the people posting ads there are looking for a one night stand or a life partner, they can advertise for whatever it is they are seeking, no matter how bizarre others think it is.
As Savannah says, I'd rather know what someone is looking for right up front too. If it doesnt match what I want, no biggie--I dont respond.
But I think having the ads right here where we can all critique them isnt good for us OR the people posting them.

I think we need an alternative or compromise of some sort.
:)

Where does this double standard come from any way? :) Is it when a woman advertises for a casual relationship it is taken to a liberating and empowering experience for her? For a man to post wanting a casual relationship is it perceived to be motivated by conquest and domination? I am curious to know what others think why this double standard occurs. I think it is ok for either a male or female to seek a casual relationship in the dating forum. They are being straight up with everyone about what their motives are when they post. Griz

"...In fact, that sounds about as appealing as Donald Trumps comb-over. Yuck, who wants to identify with that???"

--- Mrs. Hedgehog


LOL

Mrs. H, I love your posts! :p :D

I agree, it's not "our" site. But it's the people who are regular posters here and the mods who set the tone for the site. I'm asking these questions because there seem to be conflicting vibes here, as to how the site is, or should be with regard to "milfhunters" and "cougars". (LOL, starting to sound like Wild Kingdom!)

I just think that there are many other sites for those people, and that Ageless is probably not the site for them. I don't know. So I'm asking what everyone thinks.

I think that some good and interesting comments/questions have been raised.

Grizzly, I think you may be onto something in your theory of the double standard. However.. just as some women here don't want to be viewed as some younger man sexual fantasy, (we are real women after all, and much better than fantasy!) conversely, I don't think it's fair to view ym as mere boytoys/playthings. To each his own, I realize. I just don't think it's fair to give kudos to a cougar, and shoot down the milfhunter (yes, bad pun intended!). Either we leave them alone and let them post on the personals forum without comment, or we welcome them, and give reminders as to the tone of this site, or we tell them they are probably in the wrong place. I guess as Nessa has said, it boils down to what Rob wants. What type of site does he want to have? :confused:

My sense of it is, that Agelesslove was part of a movement to fight against stereotypes of agegap relationships. To be a community or a haven for people involved in those types of relationships, or for single people such as myself who have an interest in the relationship aspect because they had found themselves in those situations, and needed advice/answers, or merely to know that they were not alone in their interest in agegap relationships. I see Agelesslove as part of the movement to make agegap relationships more "acceptable", showing people that they can be successful.. and not just for a successful "fling" or fantasy fulfillment. Trying to get people to view agegap relationships in a different light.

I posted a little something on the "ad" section just now. I really am confused about this discussion and why it is taking place.

Let's get real here, ok? I see stuff in the sexually speaking section which is very graphic about ALL kinds of sex, all ways among committed partners, multi-partners whatever. Many of the threads contain suggestive comments and even bathroom humor on occasion. So now we're gonna get all uptight about what we are "projecting as a community" in the ad section?

Gen posted here that "we set the tone for the community". It is an EXCELLENT point. We do. And if I read some of the stuff I read in sexually speaking as a lurker, I sure might come here and look for a piece of the action so to speak as well.

So this is confusing, even to me! No wonder we get some of the stuff we do around here, you know?

This is a site for adults. If adults come here and post for what they want in the ad section in a respectful and direct manner, why should that be a problem?

Perhaps non-interested parties should not be allowed to post on other people's personal ads. If you think of it, the ad in question would have no responses thus far, if it weren't for people just making comments. Anyone interested could have simply PM'd the OP if they had a comment to make, or if they were interested in answering the ad. The personals is a separate forum for a reason.

It's not fair to the OP to have people simply come and post their comments, when they have no interest. I don't know the answers here. I agree that this is a site for adults, but in all honesty, if Agelesslove becomes just another pick-up place where ym can find experienced booty, and ow can find young meat.. I'm gone. :( There are plenty of other places I can go if that's what I want.

Bub, have you seen anything graphic or against the rules in sexually speaking after the new rules were formulated and posted for the members? If so, please report.

We have been careful about the contents of that forum exactly because we don't want Ageless to be a pornographic site. I am glad you mentioned this, because it allows us to ask people to help us keep the site away from that kind of image. There are millions of porno sites, we don't need one more! ;)

You may be sure that Rob is very interested always in all the suggestions we bring to him. This discussion is very important and the more people post, the more points of view we will have.

As a moderator, I prefer to listen to you at this point, I know my ideas but didn't know yours and am finding them very good.

It does seem to me that folks that post in forums other than the personals section, looking for sex only relationships, are blasted pretty equally. I can recall pretty vividly examples from both genders.

I think if you post about wanting a boy toy or some quick fling in the relationship support forum... well you are pretty much an open target.

On the other hand, can someone point me to an example in the personals section where a poster got flamed for looking for sex only? When they posted only there and didn't start something elsewhere dragging it along with them to the personals section? Thinking thats pretty rare.

As for the double standard, well of course there is a double standard, the fact is that a lot of ym frequent the site (all the forums too) that have a very stereotypic view of ym/ow relationships and are definately cruising for sex either virtual or real life. Conversely, we have a substantially fewer women here that are looking for this same thing. A lot of the women here are either in ltr or not into casual sex, virtual or otherwise. Therefore a woman posting for casual sex here is more likely to get what she wants. A man posting for it is MUCH less likely to walk away with what he sought.

Wow..

Marcy...well said!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that it is a disgraceful double standard on peoples part that it is perfectly o.k for a woman to seek out a younger guy for what ever she wants, but not o.k the other way round and guy will be made out to be the worst of the worst!
I think it is a disgrace! :mad:

I actually wish there was a policy, whereby non-interested parties not be allowed to post on other people's personal ads. Let people advertise for what they are looking for, as long as it's within the guidelines of the Agelesslove rules. Let the ad live or die on it's own without comment from people who aren't even interested. Most times, when people advertise looking for a playmate, those posters are not very active on the boards as a whole. At least that's what I've noticed. If they want to become more involved, well, then they are more than welcome to post in other areas.. but for the most part, they don't. Let their personal ad live or die on it's own.

I realize that this is not a dating site, but if one were to place an ad on a dating site, they would not be getting responses from people just making comments, good or bad. The responses would be from interested parties only. It should be the same here. Just a thought. :)

Nessa, I see your point.. sort of darned if we do, darned if we don't..

I don't know the answers. I do see a double standard though. I think those members who really want to get involved willl do so by posting in other areas or in the new members section. How many times have we seen ym or even ow looking for fun times who post once and don't get involved? Some of the responsibility has to be placed on the new person as well. Part of it is up to them to learn about what kind of site this is, then decide if they want to be a part of it. Some ym come here, post once, and expect a flock women to come. It doesn't work that way. And I agree, when we try to offer a suggestion, we get blasted.. what to do? :confused: :(

Originally posted by NeilDown
I think that it is a disgraceful double standard on peoples part that it is perfectly o.k for a woman to seek out a younger guy for what ever she wants, but not o.k the other way round and guy will be made out to be the worst of the worst!
I think it is a disgrace! :mad:


Didn't you just make a thread in the OW/YM Singles Forum getting onto newbie YM about hunting OW on the board?

Sounds contradictory to me!

Nothing contradictory whatsoever! :rolleyes:
I did'nt realize that this topic was already being talked about somewhere else on here! :rolleyes:

So now you're saying that you wouldn't have made that thread then? That's funny!

Originally posted by Joe
So now you're saying that you wouldn't have made that thread then? That's funny!

If I'd have known this one was here, then no! :rolleyes:

Hmmm. . . that's what I thought! :rolleyes:

Ok let me ask you all where this is leading to-Do you want to create a country club with deciding authority vested in a few who would decided who gets in and who doesnt? -Well then a public listing for ageless is not the wisest thing to do.

I stumbled upon ageless while googling and came here only a few weeks ago and that too by mistake. I liked it I stayed on and would love to stay on-Iam not looking for anyone right now does not mean I would never. Iam here because of the maturity levels of the discussions going on and very simply put the quality of replies each and every post elicits.

Now to the issue of Ad's and posts from people looking for pick-ups well-I dont think its such a big deal-there is a section let people post what they feel like there. I dont think there is any point in passing value judegements on peoples posts-So what if a post says 19M seeking hot mature OW in so-and-so area-Would assure of a great time. [I]So what if a post says 19M seeking hot mature OW in so-and-so area-Would assure of a great time.[I]

Sudzz, you may not be aware that this is a privately owned site. The rules are determined by the administrator who pays the monthly bill. This site is advertised as a relationship support site. It's not a dating site. That's the reason that this topic keeps coming up time and time again.

But, because we realize that there are some people out there who are looking for genuine relationships, we do keep a personal ad section. It's not a section where people can advertise for a sexual relationship. It's only for those who seriously want a relationship. We don't want this site to turn into a pick up site. It is offensive to those of us who are here in real relationships needing support. Allowing this to become a pickup site could further the antiquated notion that older woman with younger men are just in it for sex.

I agree with whiterose and would like to add, I really do not see a point in digging up this thread from June, not a current issue being discussed.

Well, here is my "defense"?

Look at it this way.....there are thousands of sites out in the cyber-universe for "hooking up" for sex, one-night stands, cybersex or what have you. And I understand the appeal of it for some people....

However, we wanted this site to be....different. This site is not geared towards seeing if you can hook up with an older partner for sexual adventure. This site is about relationship support for those who find themselves in love in an age-gap situation, and to help people understand that these relationships can work. It's also about trying to bring some acceptance in society for people in these kind of relationships, and to somewhat prove that, in fact, these relationship are not (as often assumed) based on sex.

Having those intentions in mind, we posted a very clear set of rules in the personal ads section that we only accept personal ads in search of a relationship...whether it be friendship, pen pals, a romantic relationship or even searching for a soul-mate, BUT in keeping with the original intent of the site, we do not accept ads searching for a purely sexual encounter.

I think that most of the members agree with this philosophy of keeping the site as close as we can to the original intent....support of age-gap relationships. This is just our philosophy at this site, and it really isn't about some kind of moral judgement, but rather about the type of site we wish to maintain here.