New OW is unreadable...

Hi there, and thanks for reading. I have been dating my current OW - "L" - for a little over 3 months now. She is 52 and I am 28 - which I must admit is the biggest gap I've ever had - but it's never been an issue to me at all.
She has a 24 y.o. daughter and a 23 y.o. son, and the daughter has a 3 y.o. daughter, and all 3 of them live with her. I get along great with the whole family, spend the night on a regular basis, and all-in-all have really blended into their home quite well considering the short amount of duration of our relationship.
She's been divorced for 8 years, had 2 serious bf's for about a year & a half a piece that were both about 10 years younger than her, and her last bf was about 2 years ago - for 3 months -and he was about 17 years younger than her.
So anyway, I meet her at a club where she is dancing. We talk, we dance, we kiss on the dance floor that night, get her number. To her surprise I called her the next day and we started going out a couple days later and have been going out about 5 nights a week since then.
She was very very quiet, shy, and reserved from the start. She warned me right off that she was very quiet. But I broke through all the ice and we've been doing fine.
Problems are...:rolleyes: she is quite attractive and she knows it to the point of almost being arrogant. It's not so much that it's a bad thing, it's just self confidence to the max I guess. But she is really this way about everything in her life. She is very proud of everything in her life - which she should be - but she just talks so much about her career and her life and her kids and how great they all are and how good she is at everything she does - and I just don't know how to read it... She really is a shy and reserved person, but this whole side of her just throws me. She is shy to the point that a lot of times she will say a very minimal amount of words to get a point across. So I can't read if this whole thing is arrogance or if it is part of her just not wanting to talk much and wanting to just get a point across fast.
Another issue is that she just never shows any emotion toward me. I am very open with my feelings and I tell her what I think of her and how I feel about her and that I miss her when I don't see her, etc. But she just doesn't. I ask her how she feels about us and she just says, "I don't know yet" Then she will think a minute and say, "you are just so young." And I ask 'what does this mean' and 'is this a bad thing'? And all she can say is that I'm
'so very mature' and that 'I'm by far the nicest most wonderful guy she's ever met'. But that's all I get out of her...and I don't get that very often. I just feel no emotion from her at all. No attachment to me at all. No feelings that she misses me when we are apart, no feelings that she would be upset if we couldn't be together anymore.
I just got really upset about it tonight and I had to write - I know this is a mile long. :rolleyes: I just really care about her a lot, and I know that she is someone that I would want a relationship with. I asked her tonight if she would like to go out with someone else. And she said 'no, I told you from the start most all men are terrible and there are very few good ones out there' So I read into this sentance that she's not necessarily looking for anyone - and - that she considers me a somewhat special guy because we are together. I tell her I miss her and she says 'then you are really gonna miss me by tomorrow night!'
I ask her if she likes spending time with me and instead of saying 'yes I like you and I really do enjoy our time together' she says 'you wouldn't be here if I didn't' ?!?! So it's not really a negative response that I get from her - just not a warm one - a kind of arrogant one in my book.
Hopefully some of you will read this and have some insight for me. I would really appreciate some words of wisdom. Thank you for your time.

Dang bro, welcome to the board! :D

If she is not totally lookin' for a relationship, then you can't change how she feels. I say, just enjoy each day to it's fullest and see what she does. You have already told her how you feel, just wait a little bit and see if she opens up more. You sound really committed to this and all you can do is say and do your part and then rest is up to her.

It's funny how your OW says that if she didn't care for you, you wouldn't be there because my OW always tells me that as well.

Look bro, I know right now you may seemed confused or even frustrated but let time tell the tale. After all, you have only been with her for 3 months. Don't read too much into it and do your best to be the best partner you can be. :)

good luck!

It seems to me like she's just trying to take the relationship slowly and cautiously.

Funny -- other than the part you describe as arrogance, she sounds a lot like me: quiet, reserved (especially about emotional disclosure), shy. And I tend to say things like, "You wouldn't be here if I didn't" too. Only because it's very difficult for me to wear my heart on my sleeve.

I'm not sure what you're looking for from L; my best guess is reassurance that your feelings are being reciprocated. Are you willing to be patient? If you're trying to determine the potential for future commitment in the relationship, are you willing to give it up altogether if you don't get that guarantee?

(Oh, and welcome! :) )

Thank you guys so much for your input...I'm sure I am just reading too much into it... At the point she's at in her life, I know for sure she doesn't need me or a relationship. But neither do I - I just really like her.
I guess that is what it is - that I'm 'trying to determine the potential for future commitment.' Not so much because I'm gonna be crushed if she doesn't want to go out anymore - just because I don't want to waste time and emotion on somebody that really doesn't even want me and just wants to play with me (which is fun too ;) ) but I'm just beyond playing - I'm really a more relationship oriented guy.
But I definitely am willing to wait it out because I care so much about her and I really think with time this could be a very fruitful relationship for us both.
I do enjoy every day and every minute with her so much. I just don't generally fall for people as fast as I have for L and now I'm realizing that she might not care as much as I do. I do need to remember that not everyone is as comfortable with emotional disclosure as I am. That is a very good point - thanks. And she does have every reason to want to go slow & cautious.

Could be several things going on here.

When it comes to relationships, everyone has their own speed and it sounds like she may be the tortoise and you may be the hare. You may need to cool it and slow down. She may be the kind of person that takes things slow and has to let everything sink in before she decides what is what.

Some people are not affectionate. They just aren't. And if she isn't, you may have a really hard time changing that. If that is the case, then you need to decide if what she is willing to give in the way of affection is what you are looking for and what you are willing to settle for.

And what you call arrogance could really be masked insecurity. Things that you perceive as arrogant may be things she is saying and doing to build herself up. I don't think I know anyone who is both arrogant and shy. In my mind that is almost an oxymoron.

I really do think that 3 months is not long enough for you to be able to make a sound judgment as to a lasting relationship. As my sweetie stated above, just enjoy each day to its fullest and see what she does.

As far as you "wasting" time in a "going-nowhere relationship," believe me, there are never any guarantees in ANY relationship. There are tons of us who were in 25-year marriages that went down the toilet and there isn't really anything that can be done about that.

Take it one day at a time and don't waste the time you do have together worrying about what might or might not happen.

Good Luck.

First, I would suggest that you protect yourself and guard your heart. Things I would not recommend is to try any mind-games, try to change her, or threaten to leave unless you mean it. If you have to play head games it may achieve short-term progress but in the end, all that's left is who and what both of you are and by delaying the inevitable you'll just end up hurt. Trying to change or extort emotion and love won't work because a) it won't create real intimacy, only resentment and calculation and b) regardless of your perception of her, she may not be willing to see herself the way you do or want to change even if she did.
Lastly, never threaten to leave unless you are absolutely committed to walking out the door and never returning if she calls your bluff. If you threaten, she calls, and you cave..your credibility is shot, she won't respect you as a person much less a man, and there is nothing you can do to take it back. Keep us posted, L'sYM.

Aaah L's YM its hard isn't it we are all such complex creatures. Not wanting to make any suppositions about your friend but maybe just maybe she has been hurt before and IS proud of her survival and independence. Maybe like some of us she has had to rebuild herself whilst working and paying a mortgage and studying and bringing up kids and doing 150 things a day for other people, and maybe she just doesn't want to let down the barriers that are actually holding everything in place (not excluding you like it seems) and so she is cautious and appears unemotional. BUT she has welcomed you into her family and her bed and her head and last but not least her heart. As she says if she didn't want you there you definitely wouldn't be there - maybe try to see it as a compliment, she doesn't let just anyone in to all those places. And maybe she is afraid of letting it happen too soon so she backs up and lets you in a bit more when she can see she won't be hurt or exploited or have demands made on her. All these maybe's but I'm the same, it took me ages to actually tell Daniel how I felt but once I did it was such a relief and that last facade fell away. Life gets very hectic when you have a lot of people wanting bits of your heart and mind, and if the relationship is causing pressure it can be easier to not be in one. Hope it works out for you, you seem like you really care for her. Have fun

Thanks for all the advice...I think I will just give her the space - but I've definitely learned that I should mention the fact that I am willing to give her the space and not just back off so that in 2 weeks after my backing off she doesn't think I don't like her anymore because I haven't said anything...:rolleyes: LOL.
Everything with us is really good though I guess this is what causes the confusion - I guess I do understand though. It's just that she has parties at her house and I go over and help set up and all that and she introduces me to all of her friends and family, I go out to dinner with her and her friends and family, her granddaughter sits on my lap on the couch and I read bunny books to her...the whole thing. We do sleep together in her bed and - when the kids are home - just descretely. She told me though that I am the first boyfriend she's ever brought home to meet her kids and that I am the first guy that her kids have ever seen her kiss since their dad 11 years ago! So that made me feel good about us. I guess I've just never been with someone that was not at all vocal with their feelings. As soon as we are alone when people like to talk and whisper to each other - it's nothing but small talk. Nothing wrong with it I guess - that's just the way she is, but it just gives me very little security in the relationship. I guess also that it's my own fault for falling for her so fast - I'm usually more cautious myself. I really don't think we really even have a problem - I guess i just needed to vent like someone said because I am peeved and unsure of our relationship.
I'll be talking to her today. She was going out w/ her daughter & granddaughter because she doesn't work on Fridays so I'll call her and see how she is. We are supposed to go out on a date tonight so hopefully I can talk to her some. She just totally freezes up when any serious conversation about feelings comes up. She has been single for a long time though so she has every reason to be cautious and slow. Maybe I just need to lay off the caffine. :D

maybe i am off here, but i want to bring up another point, i loved peachy's reply and agree whole heartedly, but for me there is also a generational thing, it seems to me that the younger men are much more aware of thier emotions and can express their feelings better than i ever could, i am learning today, how to let go and express myself, this is an upside to my relationship with adam who is twenty years younger than me, sometimes i get annoyed that he can relate on such an emotional level, and i relate on practical matters. emotions were not expressed readily when i was growing up, as possibly many wemon in their forties and fifties and older.... this is something i am learning and i realize how vital it is to my happiness, sometimes it even takes times to figure out what my feelings are. I have never been with a man who cared about emotions, feelings, like the one i have in my life today, it takes time to trust and let down guards and be able to even name emotions.... give her time.

i wish you the best. kitty

Originally posted by L'sYM
..... she introduces me to all of her friends and family, I go out to dinner with her and her friends and family.... She told me though that I am the first boyfriend she's ever brought home to meet her kids and that I am the first guy that her kids have ever seen her kiss since their dad 11 years ago!
As Raven says, it seems that her actions speak louder than her words. Not only that, but she catalogs the evidence for you! I hear her saying that your unique position in her life is a sign of how special you are to her.

Long before we can even take the risk of sharing our feelings with another person, we first have to sort them out within our own minds, and then name them (as kitty has pointed out). And not all of us progress through those steps at the same speed.

I agree with Savannah! In this case, her actions speak louder than her words, and she does seem to care for you so that's good. How did your date with her go last night? :) I don't get the sense that she's trying to push you away or anything; on the contrary, it sounds like she just isn't one for expressing her feelings too much, at least not verbally.

Well our date went good. I made reservations for us at a nice restraunt and we had nice small talk on the way there. I hadn't seen her in 3 nights - which is unusual for us given our track record.
We sat down for dinner and ordered and I was just so happy to see her and she looked so beautiful that I kind of giggled a little. She picked up on this and asked what I was laughing at. I told her nothing, nothing. And we went back and forth on that a few times... So I finally told her - you look so beautiful tonight and I'm just really happy to see you - I've missed you. She said yeah, I just need some time to myself sometimes, because when I'm with you I don't get anything done. Which isn't really what I wanted to hear...and it kind of bothered me. I said well I'm sorry, I can come over later if you would like so you can get things done in the evenings? And she just giggled a little (?). So at that point I started to get a little upset, just overwhelmed with the whole thing. I sat for a long time not saying anything and she kept asking what was wrong and telling me to just say whatever was on my mind. I was thinking so much about all of the advice I'd gotten here about just letting it go and letting her go at her own pace and I thought - well, what is really bothering me doesn't really have anything to do with the pace of this deal.
So I told her. I started, 'Well, I really, really like you a lot. More than I now realize I should at this point in our relationship. I'm upset because I really don't think you are into this and I really am not sure you are wanting a bf necessarily. But I do not blame you at all - this has nothing to do with you - it's completely my own damn fault for opening up to fast and following my heart - it's just my nature I guess.' And she, Ms. never has the words for anything - just sat there looking astonished. About all I got out of her was that she was just so concerned about the age gap. At that point they dropped our food off, we cut up our steaks, and I excused myself to go to the bathroom. I was very upset at that point - just feeling like this is hopeless, I've done this to myself, this is the way I am with the OW/YM thing, and this lifestyle is just never going to get any easier. So I roamed around out in front of the restraunt a few minutes and went back in and sat down. We talked minimally through the rest of the meal because of the noise in the place, but again she asked me what was wrong. I told her as soon as we got out of there I would tell her about "me".
So we went outside and sat on a bench. I proceeded to explain to her what it is like to be me with this OW/YM thing. Being that I finally had explained the whole thing to my mother in a way she understood just like 3 weeks ago - I figured what the hell - I'll go for broke and lay it out there. I told her it is like people that know they are straight or know they are gay - it just is , I can't explain why. I used 2 girls that we walked past on the way to the restraunt as an example. They had - not knowing that L was my gf - said that I was hot when we walked by and hooted at me - and I just smiled and gave L a squeeze. But I told her - for people like me - I see right through those 2 little 22 y.o.'s like they aren't even there like a gay guy sees through a female. I see you and I see the kind of person that can fulfill my mind and my heart. I know what I'm doing, I'm not a naive kid, I've been through more sh*t in my young life already then I care to recount, and I would not have ever wasted a moment of your time when we met if my intentions for the future were not totally honorable. I've been in many relationships, I've had my heart broken and I've broken hearts, and I don't play with hearts.
So she hugged me tight and kissed me and held my hands. I asked her what she thought. She said that she had really only ever had 3 bf's in her life including her husband and that she does feel that she is very naive. She said that she was concerned about our age difference and that she really just doesn't know what to think of it all at this point. But again she told me how she is never attracted to any guys she meets because they are all just not what she considers nice and she would rather just be single, but that I am so nice that she knew when we met that I was a really nice guy and that I was worth spending her time with and dating.
So I thought a minute and told her, 'another thing that really bothers me, is your concern. I just hate that these relationships that I have put people in a position of discomfort and concern. I know you are concerned. Concerned about our age, concerned about my intentions, and concerned about the future. I just feel like if I'm having a relationship with someone and they are uncomfortable it just makes me feel bad and there really is nothing I can do about it. There really are no words I can tell you that will make you believe me about the way I am - I don't think those words exist. But it really bothers me to cause people concern in a relationship and to put someone in a position that they have to worry. I also think a lot about your kids and what they think. I hate to bring discomfort into their lives and their home even though they are adults. But this is just what I live with, there really is no choice, all I can do is be honest about who and what I am and be considerate of everyone who is involved.
So she hugged me and kissed me again and thought a minute. She said, 'what about when we are old?' I said what about it? She said, 'I mean really old?' I said, 'I don't know, I really don't know what happens to people like me or relationships like this, but I can tell you that one way or the other I am going to find out.
So that was about it as far as conversation. We drove home with minimal conversation. She held my hand tightly the whole time, and kissed me at most of the stop lights, and when we got home we went to bed and made deep, passionate love and held each other and went to sleep. So I guess I'll just keep giving her the time and see where it goes. I know she does enjoy "us", but she just needs the time and the space after being single for so long to get used to the whole thing and be OK with it all.

Originally posted by L'sYM
Thanks for reading all this crap if you actually did - ...
Thanks guys...

Yep, I read it. And I'm sure that other people actually did read through all of it as well....and you know what it's not crap at all.

Originally posted by L'sYM
I know what I'm doing, I'm not a naive kid, I've been through more sh*t in my young life already then I care to recount, and I would not have

L'sYM, when you edited your post, you took out part of a sentence. I didn't get to read it last night. I was hoping to read the rest of your story about your date. So, what happened? You said at the beginning of the post that your date went good. What happened after you poured your heart out to her?

Originally posted by kimmy
Some things about people do not change. An emotionally "cold" person will not likely become an emotionally "warm" person.
If she is fundamentally "cold", then she will not become "warm".

If, however, her emotional detachment is a self-protective measure, she will gradually let it go and verbalize her feelings more.

People have told me that I present as cold and aloof when they first meet me -- believe me, it's all a facade. And no one who has ever seen the way I behave with my dogs would say I'm "cold", but I never have to fear rejection from the dogs.

If she's worth it to you, give her time and patience. If there is nothing else in the relationship that compensates for the lack of emotional reciprocity, and you feel that you need this NOW to continue to be with her, then you should move on.

Originally posted by Savannah
... And no one who has ever seen the way I behave with my dogs would say I'm "cold", but I never have to fear rejection from the dogs...
Sorry, to hijack a bit here but just wanted to say I can sooo relate to this, lol - I guess that's why I generally prefer animals to humans :p

As for L'sYM, well, tbh, I am not sure what the issue is with his lady ... L'sYM seems a very nice, caring guy ... but I am not sure if the situation sounds overly promising ... his lady reminds me of a guy I dated for a couple of month, who was always making "cryptic" comments like her when we were talking emotions ... he never figured out what he wanted, maybe it's the same with her, might be a matter of time or just a general "issue" she's having ... so, sorry, no advise here, just best wishes ;)

Sorry for deleting the punchline off of my other post :rolleyes:, accident I swear, LOL...I put it back on.
Well we went out last night, to a concert with one of her gf's and the gf's husband. So not much alone time together, and she really did not show much affection, very little hand holding or anything last night when we were out. I stayed this morning until noon or so, went to breakfast and all that. She was really lovey and affectionate today, so I just never really know.
I really don't think that she is fundamentally cold - because she is not that way all the time - she just seems very cautious with any kind of disclosure.
It's funny because when we first started going out one of the things she said she really liked and appreciated in me was that I knew what I wanted, I was very open with my feelings, and that I was not afraid to show affection. She appreciates this, but I guess she just has a hard time reciprocating. Affection she really doesn't have a problem with, it's just anything that involves any kind of vocalizing...
I really do like her so I guess it is just a matter of giving it the time, and I have the time, so I'll just ride it out and see what happens.

Thanks for filling back in the missing gap in your other post. :)

I understand completely now. Your relationship is still new. You have a 24 year age gap. All the feelings that you are feeling, and all the feelings that she is feeling are normal in an age gap relationship.

The OW struggles to believe that the YM really does love her. It's so incredible to find someone who accepts us just as we are, especially if we have been hurt before.

You're doing the right thing by giving her the time that she needs. Encourage her to check out this website. Encourage her to read "Loving a Younger Man" by Victoria Houston or any other book she can find about age gap relationships.

But, then sit back and give her the space and time she needs. Remi did that for me. He waited for 6 months for me, even while I dated someone else. But, that wonderful breathing room he gave me, in addition to this website, were what I credit for bringing us together ultimately.

One day at a time.... that's what it takes. A good thing is worth the wait.

You are a man who makes loves to a woman...with your heart, soul and mind, what an awesome combo!

I agree with Raven on this. the fact that it concerns you that she be concern about her family and kids its absolutely awesome. It shows a selfless attitude that I hope she will appreciate.

24 yrs...gosh...I'm sure she's struggling with it. It is not easy, maybe for her this is why she's not very affectionate in public or with others there. She's still working it through and trying to find some kind of foothold into her emotions that will tell her that this relationship will be good for her. Give her time, be patient, don't revolve your life around her, do things with your friends that will give her the time she needs to sort things out. continue to be your individual person, thats what she sees thats what she likes.

Good luck
Paris

Thanks again for all the input guys...
I think one of her biggest fears is losing some of her independence that she has worked so hard for - which is totally understandable from a divorced single mom.
I am a very laid back aloof person - as is she - so we really don't intrude on each other lives with any kind of demands at all, and we make sure to have at least one or two family/friends nights a week away from each other.
She said she has only dated very controlling and very jealous men before and she keeps telling me that she can totally tell and that she totally apprectiates that fact that I am not that way at all - but it's like she is so conditioned to men being that way that she is having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that there really are men out there that are not like that and that I am one of them. She loves her freedom and her ability to be totally in control of her own life without anyone telling her what to do - this is a very important thing to her - but it seems like right now she is just waiting for me to cross that line and show her a controlling or jealous side - but I do not have one. I know she does believe that I'm not that way, again I think it's just the realization that she's found a guy like me that she is having a problem with. I definitely feel under the microscope right now... LOL. But she does have every right to take her time and examine the whole thing before she makes and decisions after what she has experienced. I'm the same way - I'd rather be single than to repeat any of my dating past.

Originally posted by L'sYM
I think one of her biggest fears is losing some of her independence that she has worked so hard for ...... She said she has only dated very controlling and very jealous men before ..... She loves her freedom and her ability to be totally in control of her own life without anyone telling her what to do ....
OMG -- she's me! :eek: (Well, me 12 yrs from now, plus kids)

It may always be a struggle for her to try and find a comfortable balance of maintaining independence versus the merging of coupledom. And you're probably right in thinking that she is wary of seeing some hidden controlling or manipulative behaviours emerge, since this is all she has known from men up until now.

But if she's in control of her life, and she has let you become a part of it, then you're there because she wants you there. :)

So we are rolling along as is stated in this post...
She has had me over to granddaughters b-day party, I helped 2 of her friend totally decorate her whole house for her daughter's college graduation surprise party and I was there all day for that party. I've met most of her large family (mom, 3 younger brothers, 2 younger sisters, and more nieces and nephews and grand nieces and nephews than I can remember), all of her girl friends and their families, her kids, her kids friends. They've all seen us kissing - generally discretely - but most of them have seen us.
But she won't meet any of my friends, LOL (???) She came to my house one night and met my mother whom I live with, and would only come in for about 2 minutes - long enough to say hi to mom, shake her hand, get all red and embarrassed and poke me and whisper, 'come on lets go'. Last weekend she did come in and sit and watch some T.V. and talk with my mom and her bf and I and she was relatively calm and cool.
Tonight a friend of mine - who she did meet once one night when we were out dancing at a local club - called me and said, 'hey, why don't you guys come out to dinner tomorrow night with me & my gf?' So I said yeah, sounds great, lemme call her and we'll put it together. So I call her and she says no! LOL. She says, oh I'd rather not - I'm just not comfortable with the age thing you know? And I said, no, I don't know, that's why I ask you about this issue often! She says, this is the guy I met right? I said yes. She said well, don't tell him I'm not comfortable with it, just tell him I already have plans. I said ok, whatever, no big deal. She says, well my friends are ok with all this because they have known me to go out with younger guys before because both of my other bf's were 10 years younger than me, but your friends are not really into all this and think you are weird for it. I said, they don't understand it, but regardless of what they think of this, they are still my friends and we can still get together and it really won't be a big deal. And she just said, no, I'm just not ready for this yet. I again said, OK, no problem, we can just go out together tomorrow and we can try this again another time...
Is it just me or is the problem usually the opposite - the OW usually worried that the YM will try to hide her from his friends??? Here I am offering her to go out and be with my friends and 'show her off' to my friends and - no such luck, LOL. Wants no part of going out and meeting my 20 something year old friends. But she has no issues introducing me to everybody she knows. I'm not mad about it - I know it all comes with time and she is nervous about what all of my friends will think - I just thought it was kind of strange. :confused: Is this to be expected and I just wasn't ready for it? Or is this a little odd?

L'sYM: I ask her if she likes spending time with me and instead of saying 'yes I like you and I really do enjoy our time together' she says 'you wouldn't be here if I didn't' ?!?!

Savannah: But if she's in control of her life, and she has let you become a part of it, then you're there because she wants you there.

Say no more. Relax, enjoy it will be alright. She's processing, your processing we don't all fall into synchronicity, it's a matter of give and take, and that includes space and time to think things through with the other person in mind. You see yourself in a couple relationship, she's thinking about what that has meant and how hard won independence is for a woman who has given it away to an undeserving person. She is probably enraptured and scared and constantly trying to rationalise what's going on in her heart and mind. You make passionate love together, it's special. Hope it all works out for you both, maybe you should put her on to this website, everyone here helped me get my head around so many issues. The best advice someone gave me was to stop looking at the age gap and start focussing on the relationship, I was so floating on air and going round in circles I couldn't see where I was stuck. So much better now. take care chez

Okay, I'll take a stab at your latest dilemma, that she refuses to spend time with your friends.

Her statement, "I'm just not comfortable with the age thing you know?" suggests that she is afraid that she won't have anything in common with your friends -- perhaps she views you as a uniquely mature representative of your cohort. And possibly that seeing this would accentuate the age gap in your eyes.

Me, I'd just be afraid of looking OLD in your friends' eyes, and that you might start seeing me from their perspective, rather than with your current "rose-coloured glasses".

I think it's from fear that the age contrast will become unavoidably obvious.

Thanks for fielding that one Savannah... I probably need to just back off for a while, LOL. I think now that I probably should not have even mentioned it to her - everything that we end up in discussions about all boil down to the fact that she needs time to process everything and I need to give her that time and she will become ok with things at her own pace.
Might go so far as to say it was inconsiderate of me to ask her out with my friends - given the fact that she keeps asking for time - but it seemed pretty harmless at the time - I just didn't think deeply enough about it before picking up the phone I suppose...:confused:

No, not inconsiderate at all! Conversely, if you never invite her to meet your friends, she might start thinking that you are ashamed of her in some way. Don't stop asking.

Something with a little less I-have-to-make-conversation intensity might be more acceptable to her -- maybe going to see a sporting event, where there is less focus on her? Shy people tend to try and avoid social encounters where they feel like they will be under a microscope -- like meeting the SO's friends, where everyone else is already acquainted.

Yeah, that was really what I was thinking, and was my whole intention behind inviting her out - that I want her to feel that I am happy & proud to be with her and that I am not ashamed of her in any way. You are right about the less intimidating place to meet the friends though - different enviornment kind of thing than a dinner. 2 things though, LOL - 1, she's already met this friend of mine briefly, so it's not like a whole new thing, and 2, she's put me through SO MANY of those 'oh come over I'm having some friends over' things and there are 30 - 50 people there that I don't know and I just walk in on the thing - but she won't do it! LOL :p
Oh it's ok though it's all part of the game. I used to be shy once upon a time so I am very understanding and supportive in that department...
We went out last night for a very nice dinner out doors on the upstairs balcony of a restraunt...cooked us a fancy desert thing right in front of us, the whole thing - it was a very nice evening. But it was also quiet so we could talk and relax a little. I appologized to her. I said I am sorry about asking you out with my friend to dinner last night. She said oh don't be sorry.... And I stopped her there - I said I'm not sorry I asked you, I'm sorry because I did not listen to you. We had that big discussion last Friday night and you told me that you needed time and that this was all going so fast, and that you would like to just go a little slower and I didn't listen and I am still trying to rush you around and do all these things and I'm sorry. I will try to slow down and I will listen to you and I am totally ok with taking everything at whatever pace you are comfortable with.
And she said, yeah, it's all just been going so fast, and she hugged me really tight. I really feel - gut feeling - with all I know, and all I know about her - that this will work out and be ok. She just needs me to go really slow for her. It's kind of like being the 3rd. or 4th. bf of a naive 17 y.o. in a way. She just has never dated enough in her life to know how this should go and how a healthy relationship should be. She's gettin' the hang of it though and I can really feel that she doesn't want me to go anywhere.

I'm starting to feel like L's Mouthpiece here! :D But if I can give you any insight into what possible thoughts/feelings lie behind her words and actions, I'm happy to do so.

To my (shy, introverted) way of thinking, there is a vast difference between inviting you over to a large gathering of 30 - 50 people and a fairly intimate dinner with another couple -- there are more distractions in a bigger group, and less direct scrutiny of the "new SO". She invites you to her parties because you're comfortable in that setting, and because she wants your company.

But I think you said exactly the right thing to her. It may not even be the relationship that is going so fast for her, it may be her own emotions as well. Just keep on giving her the time she needs to assimilate all of this.

Thanks again for the input Savannah... I've been thinking about it a lot. It's just gonna be a slow process I think, but that's OK, again, I've got the time and I really like her.
I guess I'll just keep dropping the hints about dinner and stuff with my friends and family, and if she shows any interest I will persue. She just kinda freaks out when I spring a question on her just on a whim about dinner tomorrow night or whatever. I'll just have to plan these events further in advance, and plant a seed with her and let her get used to the idea for a week or so, then when the time comes just tell her she is invited is she would like to come...
Sorry, just thinking out loud I guess...I just need to handle it all with a little more patience and tactfulness...I'm gettin' there.
Thanks again for all the input guys...:)

Listen to what she does not say. She is giving you the roadblocks that keep her from packing the bags and road-tripping to Vegas. She does love you and having a man in her life. She is grasping at reasons why she should not be with you but she knows she is in love. Do not (I repeat DO NOT) try to force her hand (in marriage) because that will kill the blossoming relationship.
Does she look down and turn away when she speaks of her feelings? Men will do that too, when they are madly in love and are afraid of the possiblity of heartbreaking pain. If you take her hand and tell her you will not rush her into a commitment (and be honest if this is your intention). She is introducing you to family and friends. She shows affection in the presence of the offspring. If you love this woman and want to spend time giving yourself to her unconditionally; know it should be urged not pushed. Let her do the advancing and take little steps when she makes advances. Her fear may be losing her self-image in your personality. Take care of her for the rest of her life and make that clear in your actions (actions do speak louder than words)....

Thank you quiet lover for your input. Yeah, we haven't even gotten to the point of considering marriage or anything yet. That is generally not something I even bring up in these relationships. I know that a lot of OW do not ever even want to be married again after what they've been through, and that is something that I have come to grips with - that if I love this woman - or any OW that I am with - it is a great possibility that she may never want to marry me - that's just the way it is. Or if she does possibly want to marry it would be way, way in the future. So I'm cool with that.
I did appologize to her recently for pushing her to much and trying to pull feelings out of her that she was not ready to disclose. I told her that I realized I was not listening to what she was telling me when she said she needed time and I was sorry for that and that I would give her the time.
So...she is on vacation for a week in Mexico now. Hopefully she'll get some time to think about me and us while she is gone and come back with a "feeling" one way or the other.
Everybody keeps telling me that if I want something out of this relationship that I am not going to get it from her and I should just bail out and go look somewhere else. But I know that I am the only one who knows her the way I know her and I want to take the chance. Even if I do get myself hurt in the end - my gut instict is telling me to proceed on with it. If nothing else just for the reasons that you mentioned - the affection in front of the kids, the meeting the family, the sleeping over...all that. I think the actions are speaking and I'm just not listening. So I'm trying to do some thinking about it all while she's gone too. Trying to sit back and look and listen to all the signs and put it all together for myself.
But I am going to keep myself involved in this. I know it has only been 3 months, but 3 months is time invested in someone I really care about and I'm not going to just throw it away that easy.
Thanks again for the input...

Originally posted by L'sYM
But I am going to keep myself involved in this. I know it has only been 3 months, but 3 months is time invested in someone I really care about and I'm not going to just throw it away that easy.
Thanks again for the input...
Good for you, L'sYM!!

I only hope that someday, someone shows me just as much patience as you do now toward L. :)

your lady, L, sounds self-absorbed (which u know), self-centered (which u know), selfish, and into power and control...so why are you with her again? If the good times are not that frequent, then you are not getting what you need in the relationship. If you are all give, then she sounds like she is all take...ugh...that is a recipe for heartbreak over time.