What to do?

Hello everyone

I've been a long time reader on the boards and thought I could use some input from anyone willing to listen and offer. My dilemma is this, I've been seeing my OW for about 2 years now, she is 12 years older then I. I'm 27 and she is 39. Things over the last two years have been okay up until most recently. She recently told me she isn't happy anymore and I asked her why and she said because she wants to know from me if I'm committed to her. I asked her if she was referring to getting married and she told me no. She said she just wants to know that I am committed to her. I told her I was. I live in an apartment by myself and offered to help her move in with me plenty of times and she always turns me down saying she wants to give me my own private space. Mind you now, she is 39 and still lives at home with her parents after being divorced. I'm having a hard time understanding her now, sometimes she's real close to me, other times she says me being 27, I seem immature or I don't know what I want out of life and she feels she is holding me back from jobs and going places in life. I love this woman but she sends me so many mixed signals about our relationship that now I've started to drift away a bit and I've taken a liking to another woman I know who works at a restaurant I go to but she's not a OW, she's probably close to my own age. I just don't know which way to go, I love my OW but I just don't see why she doesn't want to live with me or why she'll out of the blue say she's unhappy and the next day love me, then it's right back to saying she's unhappy again another day. I accepted her two kids, I buy her things, I bring her places, tell her how much I appreciate her and love her and so on and so on, at this point I can't believe I'm her unhappiness. Is she pretty much trying to let me go or something but she doesn't want to admit it? I would never have checked out or talked to another woman before but now it's at this point where I feel I almost have to because I might lose my OW.
I appreciate anyone who might think they know what's going on with my OW, replying here. I've gone out of my way to make her happy and she's fine one day and back to saying she's not happy the next. I know her ex-husband was a huge jerk and cheated on her all the time, hit her, etc. I don't know if that plays into anything but I don't see why, is being too nice a bad thing? I never hit her or cheated on my OW and wouldn't. Is my relationship done? Does she want to be with someone her age that owns a house has a huge career and can move her into a home right away? I just don't get it, before I was everything to her and now it seems I can't do crap for her. Please help!

Thanks

Do you believe that people in love have a special connection that makes some of them almost "feel" when something is wrong?

I do. I believe most of the times it's just an unfounded fear, but sometimes people do feel when their partners are drifting away, getting to look at other people as potential lovers. I don't know if it's our sub conscious gathering the information and the signs our lovers send even before we can rationalize them, or if it's really a sixth sense, whatever it is, maybe your girlfriend felt it.

Just my feelings on that.

As for what she really feels about moving in with you, she seems to worry a lot about your well being, about you having your space, about her not disturbing your life by stopping you from making progress in your career and as a person. This woman puts herself always in second place. Maybe you need to be more assertive, more convincing... have you ever talked to her as you talked here to us?

Hey SIK,
That sounds like a tough situation and I know it can eat you up alive trying to understand sometimes. I will briefly explain how I could relate and then dive into my thoughts...I am 26 and in my second relationship with an OW....I was with women my age all the time so when I begin dating OW, this was a brand new experience for me and learned so much... it was great and I carried all those lessons forward into the relationship I am in now with someone who is 5 years older than me. There are times when I thought, why would this person want to be with someone like me, I don't have a house and I am not as experienced in life as men their age, may not be as mature and so on...
First off, you have to stop thinking this way because it will turn out to be detrimental to your relationship and you will begin sabotaging it unconciously. I find it very hard to believe you lasted two years for the sake of convenience. There are obviously feelings there on both sides. Although, how you describe it, she may be carrying some insecurities such inadeuqacy or lack of fulfillment as well as lack of independence with living at home...I love my parents to death but when I lived with them after my divorce, I felt like no one would want to be with me and I had to get out on my own...establish my independence. OW love their independence and as their partner, you have to respect that..I learned that lesson the hard way but I understand now. In this situation it is very difficult to give you one line of advice. I honestly feel she has to deal with her emotions and rebuild her confidence. It seems like she has had a or many traumatizing event(s) in her life (such as divorce) which has had a tremendous impact on her mentally and emotionally and may be contributing to why she feels the way she does...being that her husband cheated on her that is very hard to deal with being on the receiving end of a partner who was not faithful. I understand that you like a woman to be consistant and not display mixed feelings and I could relate because that throws me off sometimes as well and the whole train will derail. I think this could be due to many things and it will be incredibly difficult for you to pinpoint exactly. I think encouraging her to seek counseling would help and reassuring her that you are there for her will provide her with a solid support system. If not, maybe sugessting taking some time apart would help the both of you reevaluate the situation and make some decisions. That is not an encouragement to begin dating. If you do go that route, I think you need to be up front with her and tell her...as painful as it may be. Also, if her actions are pushing you away, let her know..she will appreciate it. I think the two things you need the most here is communication and honesty.
I hope what I have said makes sense because I tried my best with so few lines...I wish you the best!!

Have you talked to her about your concerns as openly as you have with us here? If not, I do recommend you do that. That's the best way to understand what's going on with her.

One thought I had is that she is near turning 40. Somehow that big 4-0 has an impact on alot of people. She may already be feeling insecure about your commitment to her, but the idea of turning 40 may make that age gap feel even more pronounced to her.

Talk to her. Tell her how you feel. Ask her to be honest with you about how she feels. If you do, or have already done so, and she continues to waffle, then consider taking a break in the relationship for a while.

Good luck and welcome to ageless.

SIK,

Please be careful; I think you are on the borderline of cheating on someone you love, and you're looking for justifications and support. I personally find your justifications very weak..... I truly don't mean to sound harsh or righteous; you sound like a very nice person but I feel that you need a bit of a wake up call right now.

SIK, my take on your situation is that you are not very experienced with handling attraction to other women, and you are interpreting this attraction incorrectly. I say this only because its terribly common. It freaks people out when they go through this for the first time. Its actually very common for people to react in the way you are reacting now....looking for faults in your existing relationship, focussing on the negatives, and generally blaming the other partner. You're trying to make sense of it, and you feel guilty for having these feelings. Blaming the relationship or your partner is all about miniomising your guilt.

A more experienced person recognises that theres no need to feel guilty; the reason we choose to be with one partner is NOT because we will never be attracted to anyone else. If you are a reasobaly attractive, healthy, sexual being, and honest with yourself, you'll find members of the opposite sex attractive generally, and some of them especially so. And vice versa. Nature designed us that way.

The general idea is to get comfortable with these attractions. Recognise that they are natural, whilst understanding the value of committing to one particular special mate. Thats if you WANT to be a monogamous, committed person. If not, then don't try to fool yourself or others.

Just my two cents......

You guys are 27 and 39. You aren't children and it's been two years. The way to have a committment is to have a commitment.

If at this stage of the game, you can't find a way to live together, then I'm not sure that you really have a strong enough relationship to go forward with.

Obviously, there are times when both people want to maintain separate living facilities, but you don't seem to want too and she is living with her parents at 39 (which is probably not her long-term ideal)
so I don't think that applies here.

I think the crude expression is to move or get off the pot. Relationships either move forward or they peter out.

I suspect that for some reason she thinks that you don't really want a committment to her and this unspoken
schmutz is making the whole situation way less attractive to you both.

Search your heart about what you really want and then talk about it in definite affirmative terms. There's nothing wrong with calling it quits, but there's no reason to do so just because she thinks that you think something that you don't necessarily think.

Ir sounds well past time for a decision here.

I agree with DS...you're both older people here...as I see it, she is the one with the committment issue not you. If there's a choice between moving in with my b/f of 2 years instead of my parents it would be a no brainer.

I also can understand why you would look at and consider someone else with less issues. Its not an easy task sometimes being with an ow, but please finish and decide what to do with this relationship before you jump onto another. This lady deserves to have your undivided attention until such time the relationship does not exist anymore. Leave her with as much dignity so that she can rebuilt her self worth and her strength and not be left in tatters.

She obviously has issues, sit down with her and work them through one at a time. Also remind her that there are two people in this relationship and its not all about her, so let her know how she's making YOU feel as well when she doubts your committment to her. Your feelings are just as important as hers. I think ow forget that sometimes and make it all about them and what they stand to lose instead of what both parties stand to lose. Dont' be afraid of asking hard questions either, if she feels the relationship should end, she owes it to you to let you know and vice versa.

As you well know, there's just too many other ow/yw out there to deal with alot of b/s...but only after you know you've done everything you can to make it work can you walk away with no regrets.

paris

Thanks for the advice so far everyone, I am taking everything into account. I knew if I posted here that people could relate who may have had similar problems and could lend their helping hand. It's been quite the up's and down's with her lately and I do talk to her about things that trouble me in our relationship but I think she tends to put things off or ignore them and change the subject on me. We have a healthy sexual relationship, It's just other little things that need working out. I just hope I haven't become just some boy-toy to her while in her mind she is waiting for a man around her age to sweep her off her feet, I put a lot into the relationship and like I said, asked her to move in with me plenty of times but have always been declined. I just didn't understand why she would keep shooting me down like that. It's true that I work somewhere I don't like much and want to pursue into better things, along with leaving Wisconsin for Florida or California.....I just thought she would like to come along with me as she expressed one, she said she would be willing to go but now she doesn't talk about it. :( It's nice to know that I can talk here also and get advice from the rest of you, my friends are no help to me, they tell me to leave her all the time.

Interesting that your friends tell you to leave her all the time. Why do they do that?

Hey! One tension just leaped out at me from your first post:
she wants to know if you are commited to her, but she is still at home with her PARENTS! There is something just wrong with that. As Paris said, if given the choice of moving in with you or staying with mom and dad, it would be a no brainer. You cannot solve another persons problems for them, and it sounds like you are not tempted to try. That is actually healthy. I'd talk to her. I'd give her a deadline to get out of mommy's and daddy's house. Not to blackmail her into moving in with you, but as a sign that she is ready willing and able to take back her adult life. Until she's ready to do that, you should hang back some.
Ali

Hi SIK,

I don't know if this will help, but you said that your lady had been in a terrible marriage before meeting you, which included physical violence. For a woman in her position, it makes perfect sense to me that she would have a craving for parental nurture, love, safety, and stability. Having gone through such a shocking experience myself, all I could think about afterwards was my fantasy of ultimate safety. If I'd been in a position to live with my parents, I would have.

The family home is the only place where an abused woman's world cannot be ripped out from beneath her feet based on her lover's whims. Its the only place where love is guaranteed to be there for her. Right now, she may be in need of a mother's care and a mother's strength, rather than taking on the role herself as a younger man's defacto wife.

Please don't take any of this personally. She is taking care of herself, healing, and making safe decisions. And she has very good reasons for this. She knows how dangerous men can be to her psychological and physical well-being and she's not about to rush into a position of vulnerbility until she's ready to cope with all the risks (and there are always risks).

To her, your pleas that she move in with you so early in the relationship are no different to asking her to put herself in the same position of vulnerability she was in when her former marriage turned abusive and frightening to her. This a huge ask. She will need time, and your understanding.

Now you're considering cheating on her, which will just validate her decision to play it safe rather than move in with you. You're actions are communicating`well if you're not going move in with me and give me all your trust, then I'm just going to chase some other girl'. This is no way to sort out relationship problems. Trust has to earned, through understanding and patience, not threats.

I really hope things work out for you.

One of the things which I really love and appreciate about my younger bf is that he never pressures me into anything I'm not ready for, and he listens to me and really understands about my abusive past. Without his understanding, I probably couldn't have moved in with him. Now, I am very glad that I did.





If you really want to sort things out with your lady, do your best to understand her needs

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but didn't SIK say that they had been dating for over two years?

I'm not clear how that could be characterized as "early" in the relationship?

Did I miss something?

SIK, how long has it been since your girlfriend separated from the previous husband and stopped living with him?

Were you seeing each other while they were still together?

Yep, DS they've been together for 2 years, I think SIK can consider himself worthy. If he hasn't smack her by now, I don't think its going to happen.

And he's not considering cheating, but if one partner is not going to stand together with the SO, well, ciao baby...there are other fish in the sea. He knows he has other options, and that's not a bad thing. This woman is 39 years old, if her marriage was so dire, counseling should've have been her source for help, not another relationship or mom/dad.

To me she sounds like she's not into you anymore SIK. Maybe you were her salvation while she was in transition, cause if you've had no problems until recently, I would wonder why the sudden turn around. two years seems like a good enough number to regroup at mom and pops and now start making different choices. You deserve to know the truth, where you stand and then make decisions according to what she says.

Be prepared though, you may not like what she has to say but at least you'll know where you stand.

If you really want to sort things out with your lady, do your best to understand her needs "and she him". this is not just about her.

Paris

No DS, 2 years into relationship is EARLY for someone recovering from the trauma of an abusive marriage. We're not just talking about mending a few bruised feelings.....we're talking about a person reconstructing a life whn their self-esteem and faith in teh world are shot. Not to mention dealing with lack of respources and the usual problems of isolation, lack of respect from others, and misguided, petty judgements which make them feel totally alone.

Frequently you're talking about what it takes for lady to go from suicidal thoughts to living a full and happy life. How long do you think a woman is entitled to take to recover, DS?

I expect this is part of the problem in SIK's relationship.....he has no point of reference for comprehending what his lady has been through. He feels hard done by and impatient to have everything his way, when what his lady needs is patience and understanding.

My bf has never been abused, but he is a terrific listener and is driven to understand and love me. These have been the key elements in the success in overcoming hurdles in the early phase of our relationship. Cheating on either of our sides would have destroyed the relationship. I think its very misguided of others to support this guy's urge to cheat.

modedit Maria 06.18

No one is supporting his urge to cheat. They are supporting his desire to get either some movement or some closure on this issue. And I think they're right to do so.

Two years is enough time for a 39-year-old to figure out if she trusts her bf enough to live with him or not. I've divorced because my husband left me for two other women, so I definitely understand the trust issue thing -- but I can tell you that it sure wouldn't take me two years to learn to trust a good, supportive partner.

Personally it sounds like she wants it both ways -- a devoted sexual partner and the security of living with mom and dad. It sounds like she's being detrimentally enabled to me. There's only so long you can keep playing the victim card when there's no longer a reason to do so. She needs to learn to stand on her own two feet again, IMHO.

Like others have said, SIK -- have a serious talk with your lady. She needs to know what you're feeling, and why.

I'd still like to hear from SIK about how long the gap was between the time his lady stopped living with her husband and the time they began dating. If there is any gap at all (and hopefully there is - throwing onself into a new relationship five seconds after a difficult marriage and a divorce does open a Pandora's box of issues) - then we may be talking about considerably longer than two years.

If your girlfriend is too traumatized by her previous relationship to move ahead with a new one - then of course that's OK. But then she's really better off being on her own for a while to get better. That's what people do when they need to recover and that's what recovery is. It takes as long as it takes, but we don't get to keep hostages. If we aren't ready for a new relationship, then we aren't.

DS,

Good question..you're right, it IS better to clarify.

Its ok, I know you don't mean anything personal...you're just trying to give the poor man some understanding and support.

Before I came to this site, i spent 4 years on abuse forums, one in particular. I finally got to the point where I didn't need that level support anymore (time to leave the nest) and I felt I needed to put it all in my past. I still visit from time to time, but its full on reading some of that stuff. Its best to make it only a small part of my reading now.

Despite the impression I've gven, I'm not much of an `abuse victim' as far as abuse victims go. I was in and out of two extremely scarey abusive relationships within the space of only a few years; one physically violent (I was gone within a month of the first beating), one emotionally violent. No children were involved, no major financial ties. But i sure got a wake up call by reading and listening to hundreds, if not thousands of stories of abuse. These stories helped me understand, recognise, and avoid abuse after a relatively short time.

My defensiveness is kind of on behalf of the women who REALLY suffered for long amounts of time, who had ties such as children, their homes, and their life savings to these monsters. They really broke my heart, some of them.

In these people's worlds, its nothing to spend 2 or more years settling and refuting the division of assetts, children, and other ties. In that time, the emotional rollercoaster and games are intense, heart-breaking, and the support needs for the victims are major. The games surrounding settlements can keep the wounds raw for years.

Thats why I don't think of two years as a long time for a marital abuse victim to date someone before considering moving in together. Its a different emotional space to most people.

My OW has been living at her parents for about 3 years before we met, I've known her now for 2 years and a few months. She lived seperated from her ex-husband and her divorce was finalized about a year and a half ago. Her oldest son of 21 lives on his own and her youngest lives with his father, he's 16. What's also odd about asking her to move in with me, is that I ask her to spends nights at my apartment or stay the weekend and she wont even do that. What's that mean when your girlfriend of 2 years wont even stay over with you for a night? Does she just want to be independent and maybe keeping me around because of sex but she is really looking for someone else to be with? I'd hate to think that but that's how it feels sometimes. She says she loves me and wants to be with me but then I feel like an outsider because she wont spend the night with me, wont talk about the future or anything. I can't put a finger on her, she's as sweet and loving one minute as she is sometimes rude and vain the next. I think she is rather jealous also, she gets upset when I talk to female friends and doesn't like the fact I work with women at work. My OW always thinks I'm up to something or I love everyone and I want them. I lost one of my good female friends that I had because my OW chased her off. Most of my friends have moved out of state and my parents left state last year, so I'm down to just my cousin and my sister as far as friends that I have and some people at work that I talk to. Other then that, I don't have a huge circle of friends for any support or anything. Babes66, I don't think I want to break out with any engagement ring just yet, I think the way things are going right now, it's not right. I don't see why she would want to get married right away anyway for. If she wants to prove her love is as strong as mine, then she could at least spend some nights with me or something, you know. It's very frustrating and that's why I said it's made me start to look towards finding someone else to be with although I'm not out hunting or anything but before I would never talk to other women and now it's like I just start talking to them.

Babes that is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I read SIK's last post...

Hon, don't take any thing I say here personally. I see you are still very focused on what happened to you, and that is okay. But this lady is NOT YOU. She has been with mommy and daddy for five years.

Okay! SIK!
Dump this chick now and move on! She is ill! She is not dealing with it! She sounds like a borderline personality, and that is something that YOU cannot change. Eighty eight percent of patients with a personality disorder do NOT respond to treatment. Psychiatry hasn't come up with anything yet to change personality.

BEFORE EVERYONE DUMPS ON ME FOR TELLING HIM TO LEAVE!

We are here to support those who are seeking help. His ex clearly isn't. As a matter of fact, it does sound to me like she is using him for sex! How obnoxious! I'd dump this *itch fast!

"What's that mean when your girlfriend of 2 years wont even stay over with you for a night?"

Nothing good.

Whatever her reasons are, and they may be very compelling ones, I think you are correct to think that she isn't in a place where she can be or is willing to be a genuine partner for you.

It's sad, of course, but not all relationships work out for the long-term and it's looking like this one isn't going to.

Do try talking about it - it's always worth a shot, but if you can't come to a meeting of the minds than I don't see a whole lot that's worth hanging in to and I'd explore other options.

Hi Witchy,

Well if you and Ds and others are saying I'm over-projecting, then I'm probably over-projecting :) Dang. Where can i get a new brain.

Babes, i enjoyed your comments; thanks!

I agree, the lady doesn't sound terribly involved in the relationship, and from SIK's point view it must hurt a lot!.

When i think about it, I can see why a lady her position may
choose to stay at home with her parents. If there was a custody battle for both or either of her two sons during these past 5 years....then in theory it would look better to the courts if the lady lived at home with the support of her parents than being a single working mum living on her own. Plus, she may have genuinely needed the emotional support through this time. SIK, do you know anything about this aspect of your gf's past?

Abusive men can fight very dirty in the courts when the marriage ends. Who knows, maybe she was anticipating gaining custody of her sons, but she lost 18 months ago when the divorce settlement was finalised. I know...just speculating.......

SIK, theres probably a lot more to the story than you're writng here.
I'd love to hear your comments. I promise to try to be more sympathetic.

Bella your PM box is full... :)

SIK your lady sounds very confused, like she doesn't know what she wants. She wants you to commit but what has she been willing to do? Still live with her parents and won't even spend a night at your house? For whatever reason, she just isn't where you are as far as intimacy and companionship goes.

I have a male friend who is seeing a younger woman that sounds a lot like your OW. She has sex with him but doesn't want to live with him or even spend the night. They've been seeing eachother for a couple of years. He puts up with this because he's lonely and hopes she will change her mind. What are you willing to put up with?

Whatever you decide to do, I agree with what babes said, if you are interested in another woman, end this relationship first.

Good luck to you SIK. You sound like a very nice guy who's hurting. I hope something works out for ya.

K

I agree with Lynn and Marcy.

I know my parents... if I were living with them, they would be very disapproving...it's that whole line of respect for parents when you live in their house.

So now ask me if I am glad I don't live with them?:D


Keep your head up, SIK, the uncertainty won't last forever.

I agree, staying over while living with the parents may be disrespectful, but I wouldn't sit there and assume that they think she's over at her b/f's house skinning snakes and bottling snake oil either. i'm sure they know their daughter isn't over there baking cupcakes for the PTA. She may be stroking cupcake, not baking them.:p

But SIK, you have to make some decisions, this wishy washy thought mode is driving you crazy, I can tell. Give it the old college try one more time and see if this relationship can be save, to both your satisfaction. If you have to give up friends to be with this woman, well heck, now that you're possibly not happy here, you're going to need the support of those friends as your family is not close.

At some point you're going to have to step back and see this relationship realistically. Is this the way you envision your relationship to be? Can you see yourself with this person 5 years from now? Are you getting your needs meet whatever they may be? Can you trust her? Does she support you?

Don't waste more time on this relationship then you're willing to lose. You've given far too much of yourself in it and she doesn't seem ready to give of herself back.

Paris