Hunting Women on Ageless

Lately I have noticed something around ageless that has deeply disgusted me and I would like to discuss this with you.

I have seen some guys come to the site, start conversations with some women, then flirt with them, get them very interested, talk about a serious, commited relationship, talk on the phone, spend hours building the illusion, set a date to meet....and disappear.

It's not like a passion that had no continuation because of the difficulties of the virtual world, or discovering incompatibilities, but it's just a cruel technique to seduce and then drop the other person as a used tissue.

I would like to advice especially the female members here to be careful; Ageless has grown and has probably attracted more weirdos than we needed (did we need them?) and although beautiful friendships have been built here, behind the curtains there are people suffering for having trusted too much.

Some people are really sick in this world.

http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies3/malad.gif

Just gimme their address, ladies.

"What now? Well let me tell you what now. I'm gonna call a couple pipe-hittin' (another word for homies), who'll go to work on homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch. Hear me talkin' hillbilly boy?! I ain't through with you by a damn sight. I'm gonna git Medieval on your ***."

A virtual hug to whoever names what movie that quote is from. Unless you are a man, then you get nothing. Unless I'm reaaaalllly drunk.

"What now? Well let me tell you what now. I'm gonna call a couple pipe-hittin' (another word for homies), who'll go to work on homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch. Hear me talkin' hillbilly boy?! I ain't through with you by a damn sight. I'm gonna git Medieval on your ***."


ummmm....Samual L Jackson in Pulp Fiction???????

Close! It was Ving Rhames in Pulp Fiction. You get a hug anyway.

*hug*

thanks,hugs back;) ...I did get the movie right at least..:)

I have seen some guys come to the site, start conversations with some women, then flirt with them, get them very interested, talk about a serious, commited relationship, talk on the phone, spend hours building the illusion, set a date to meet....and disappear.

this happens like EVERYDAY to someone IRL....why do you think I recommend being friends first.

But I will post publicly here..

I know I'm not some crazy delusional woman.. .. We clicked.
It wasn't my imagination. We clicked so much, he was going to fly here to see me, spend the weekend with me, bought his plane ticket and everything, the day before he was to fly in, he cancelled, and since then, grew increasingly distant. We had made plans.. and he basically blew me off. He and I spent endless hours online, a few hours here and there on the phone. He TOLD me he liked me, and at one point even mentioned about how if it worked out, he'd move here. I advised him not to make a rash decision, and to think about it carefully, to meet first, see how things went. How could I have misinterpreted that? Maybe I shouldn't have taken most of what he said to heart, but it meant something to me.

Was I that bad? That stupid? That lonely? I thought I had been a friend to him. Afterward, I just felt like a complete idiot. Made me wonder, if all the hours I had spent talking with him up until the wee hours of the night were all for nothing.. just a waste. I decided to leave him alone, and not contact him anymore. I guess there is not much else I can do anyway. It hurt, but it's not the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And the more I think of it.. the more it seems a shitty thing to do to someone. I let it go, because I wanted to keep my head up, and move on.. and because I'm better than that. And as a friend of mine said.. to tell myself that it's not me.

I am too gullible, perhaps. I like to think the best of people. I have no reason to lie to anyone, but I am learning that not all people mean what they say, or say what they mean... or only mean what they say at that moment. It's too bad, because I'm not like that, I like to have faith in people, and I try not to say anything I don't mean.. at any moment.

Some people think that you cannot develop friendships or have feelings for someone sitting on the other end of a computer screen, a phone line, or a webcam. I disagree. It is not unlike two people who start to care for each other through regular letters, or pen pals. And chatting makes the experience more immediate, and webcam allows you to see a person's facial expressions. It is no substitute for real life meetings, but it's the next best thing.

The question is.. how do you know? How can you tell from online or phone communication, whether someone is sincere? Even after hours of talking with them? What can one do to keep this from happening? This similar situation has happened to me before, and I feel like I never learn. This happens not only on ageless, but in various other chatrooms as well. Perhaps men do this, because they really aren't sure of what they want.. but if that is the case, then say so. Don't lead women to believe otherwise. Be honest about what you want, and what you are looking, or not looking for. It's not that hard, an would save a lot of BS, and games.

Why the hell wouldn't he at least come to see you? And I know exactly what you mean about the more you think about it the more you wonder how someone could be such an *** to do something like that to someone. Man that always bothers me, even thinking logically. If it didn't work out at least you got to spend a weekend with a gorgeous woman.

I wish I could give you a hug! (((((HUG))))) You are not crazy or delusional and it was not your imagination! You were not bad or stupid (dang, I think you have some of the wittiest posts here). You were and are a kind, sane, bright, beautiful and maybe gullible but that means trusting and that is a good thing to be.

I wish I knew Nuno's phone number....I am sure he would give one of his biggest fans a call to cheer her up. Here is a link to make you smile. :) http://www.nuno-bettencourt.com/Fanattic.html

if i were you gen i wouldnt look at myself as the problem with the situation,seems to me people can be who and what they wanna be because of the distance or the security of knowing they can just click a button and can go away,i too have had a chat relationship for 2 years with someone that lived in alabama and when she requested that maybe we could meet she finally opened up about alot of the things she had said that she had made up,i felt almost i didnt even know her after finding out,she told me she never would have thought she would feel so strongly towards anyone online because of the non physical connection,i tried to keep our relationship together but the more and more we chatted the more i distanced myself because of the lies she had told me,we may write once in awhile but i feel betrayed because i was open to her and she was closed to me.i too never thought i could get emotionaly attached to someone online,come to find out it was with an imaginary person,that situation is the one reason i found myself here,hopeing to find someone near by to hang out with.but every situation may have different causes.he may have gotten scared,people may try and talk him out of doing it,atleast he could have done was explain to you why he did what he did,that only the right thing to do.keep smiling!!!!robert

How could I have misinterpreted that? Maybe I shouldn't have taken most of what he said to heart, but it meant something to me.

because you really didn't know him,you wanted to beleive what he said and just as in real life....people are NOT always honest,and even more so over the internet where anyone can say anything and it's harder to find the truth out.that's not saying everyone lies,but it is saying just because someone say's it doesn;t mean it's true.

and if you learn from it(same as IRL)then all was not lost.


Was I that bad? That stupid? That lonely? I thought I had been a friend to him


No you weren't stupid,just too trusting...you saw what you wanted to see and heard what you wanted to hear......and the word friend is a very misused word,an aquaintence maybe,but a friend would not have done that to another friend(what he did to you)friendship takes time,the time to really know someone.I am not trying to be harsh,just be a realist about this and I am sorry for your pain.



The question is.. how do you know? How can you tell from online or phone communication, whether someone is sincere? What can one do to keep this from happening?

you don't know,just as in real life.all you can do is protect yourself,that does not mean become jaded or bitter,it means don't beleive everything someone says at first.


Don't lead women to believe otherwise. Be honest about what you want, and what you are looking, or not looking for. It's not that hard, an would save a lot of BS, and games.

I posted last month about a book called "Anyone you want me to be",about a guy who lied to woman over the net and met them and ,telling them whatever they wanted to hear,except he killed them when he met them.I didn't post it to scare woman,or any reason other then then thinking that being that there are woman on here that do that,that it was to advise them to be cautious.I don't think from the responses my post about this book went over real well.I guess people just didn't get it .I know good relationships can be made over the internet,a good friend of mine met her husband on the net,Snow met a great guy on here...I have just stressed since I've been here to be careful,don't beleive everything someone say's just because they say it's so,just as IRL.take the time to REALLY know someone.

learn from it:) and don't blame yourself for wanting something you thought would be a good thing.....

*Rayne starts to make voodoo dolls*
Yup for those that intentialy hurt ppl, what do you lack so muc yourself internaly that you have to seek out twisting other pls hearts and souls?
Well I have the dolls now a few names on them *Proceeds to poke the pins in certain areas of the dolls*


*warning*
Me myself and I, don't share the same views as rayne in voodoodoll poking* I think a cybermonser invader her way of typing*


Warm hugz to those that have been stuck in someones nasty ways*

The sad thing, Gen, is that this thread was not even inspired by your situation, which I didn't know until now, but by others'. It seems that some guys are doing this and women are embarassed to talk about.

I want those dolls, please, Midnite...I am a natural witch...
http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage05/4.gif

*Rayne, makes a few dolls for Maria, here you go, I made a few extra for those you wish to share them with, we don't want them getting in the wrong hands!*

It is scary ladies...ive met some of the best friends of my life through the internet...but it IS remarkably sad that there ARE weirdos out there...peeps that SAY things just to lure women. We are NOT unintelligent women...in fact, id say that the women on this board are some of the most intelligent, compassionate women i have ever had the priviledge of knowing. We all need reminders that this IS a public forum...where anyone, for any purpose can come and post....to be careful and be safe when we allow others into our private lives....there are some like me who still choose to think that humanity IS GOOD....i will be one of those that constantly get hurt from loving.....but the choice not to love...isnt in my dictionary;) Someday, that will be a GOOD thing for me :D love, Darla

...and I think a lot more than what women say on here. I am sorry Gen that it happened esp. when, for some unknown reason, we discover that we had some magical "karmic click" with the person on the other side of the screen. And yes, it happens on every site, but I get really sad when it happens on this one as I like to think of us as being not your run of the mill people but ones who really are intelligent and "think outside the box". I have been hurt 3 times by men I thought I had really known, and even dated one for 3 months, only to discover that he, like the others were married. What makes a man of any age lead us on and then do that to us is beyond me, for it really does a mental number on those of us who are very trusting, upbeat and positive, and not cynical by nature. Naf is right, we have to be more careful with our feelings and word choice and not really even use the term "friend" or "love" until either can be proven in person...and then one has to be careful as well until TIME has established the relationship.... hearts are very fragile things, especially if they are starving for love.

Thank you.. it is a comfort to me to read the words of all of you, and to know that I am not alone.. yes, I consider myself to be an intelligent woman.. but one who had been duped, again.


Tru.. I'd have to have more than just a phone call from NUNO!! I think I need a hug ;) from him too!


I appologize for the Nuno pic.. but I just had to do something to make myself feel better.. yes, this is working already
http://angelfire.lycos.com/pa2/lindasman/.adconfig/adimage.gif

I have a song for you Gen.....dedicated just to you:)


Times Like These
by
Foo Fighters Lyrics



I am a one way motorway
I'm the one that drives away
then follows you back home
I am a street light shining
I'm a wild light blinding bright
burning off alone

it's times like these you learn to live again
it's times like these you give and give again
it's times like these you learn to love again
it's times like these time and time again

I am a new day rising
I'm a brand new sky
to hang the stars upon tonight
I am a little divided
do I stay or run away
and leave it all behind?

it's times like these you learn to live again
it's times like these you give and give again
it's times like these you learn to love again
it's times like these time and time again



for gen.....you will be fine:)

http://www.salon.com/sex/col/tenn/2003/08/01/sya_fri/index.html

Thanks Nafadda.. I love the Foo Fighters! That song is perfect.................... now, if someone could just get Nuno to sing it to me.....:D ok, ok.. that's pushing it.. :cool:

Don't beat yourself up; you did nothing wrong. You just have to be a little more careful to protect your feelings. I met my last three boyfriends on the Internet. For me, it is the best way to find someone who appeals to me and meets my standards. Sometimes when you meet someone in the real world, it can take several time-consuming, expensive dates before you learn enough about him to realize that he is wrong for you. Online, you can usually tell if someone is an appropriate candidate after just a few emails. But, I would not spend a lot of time on the phone or in chat sessions with a man before meeting him in real life nor would I ever become intimate with a man through those media unless he were already a committed lover IRL. I am not implying that you did that, Gen, but I know women who have been bitterly disillusioned and humiliated by online sexual predators who presented themselves as serious suitors and then disappeared when the women finally insisted on a face-to-face meeting. For me, personal ads on a clean, respectable site are the best method of finding someone compatible (if you are indeed looking for a serious, committed relationship). In my ad, I am always very specific about the kind of person I am and very specific about the type of man I am looking for and I make no sexual allusions. That way, you can eliminate a lot of the chaff from the start because, for the most part, only guys with your specifications will respond. If you find someone you really like, just keep the relationship on a casually affectionate level and don't let your feelings get seriously involved. And then, unless your chosen guy is ready to plan a meeting IRL fairly soon after you start communicating, just say goodbye and good luck to him.

Anyway, you are a lovely, sensitive woman and I am sure that a good, respectful man will come along in his own time. It is worth the wait.

All of the foregoing reinforces my natural caution (okay -- more like paranoia, LOL), which is why I have so far resisted any hint of internet romance. Although there are some wonderful guys on here that have certainly caught my eye, I live so far away from most of the members here that meeting IRL would be difficult.

A few months ago I learned of a local man who had not only been engaging in internet relationships with women, he had been duping them out of substantial amounts of money, too. Amazingly enough, some of his victims came forward and reported the scam -- I'm sure there are many more who are too embarrassed to speak up. (Unfortunately I only know his real name, not any of his aliases, but if anyone wants to know, just ask!)

I'm not sure the relative anonymity of the internet is entirely to blame; as others have pointed out, there are con men IRL too. They just adapt the game to fit the medium.

But here on Ageless?? :eek: (Further into my shell I go.........)

Gen, you are definitely not stupid or naive -- if you believed that there was some depth to the relationship, then you did so because this is what he wanted you to believe, at that point in time. Only he can answer whether that changed, or if you were deliberately misled. What's that cliche? "Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole basket" -- but keep an eye out for the worms! ;)

Gen - - -

It could happen to anyone so don't beat yourself up over it. I am sorry things didn't work out tho . . . I was pulling for you guys.

But life goes on so keep on keeping on!!:D

Don't beat yourself up; you did nothing wrong.....
--- Patricia

Well, maybe there was a mistake or two there. If it happens more than once, then it might be time to change your approach.

One fast and easy solution I used to avoid Gen's mistakes, was to focus my romantic efforts only on ladies in my own state, and preferably within an hour's driving time. This way there is no excuse for not meeting IRL very quickly, so you can find out what the scoop is.

I met my wife through a dating site; I responded to her ad, but I never would have, if she hadn't lived within 60 miles of me.


Just my $.02 worth.

Remember Jason? SupposedPath?

He was here posted 80 some messages in like a month, I talked to hime ALOT, until the night his wife found his password:eek:
She talked to me I called her. We have never heard from Jason again!:rolleyes:
And yes he was REAL, his name addy and everything matched up on the caller ID......
His poor wife.............I wonder if Supposedpath is still around?
Be very leary gals and guys..........They are around every corner........

I agree that distance is and can be a problem... but only if you make it so. I had even offered to go to see him. Apparently, he didn't want that either, and danced around that when I brought it up. Mind you, it's not easy for me to get away for long periods of time, but a weekend? I could swing that. And would do so again, if I thought the person was worth it. Sure, there were times I may not have talked to someone as much in order not to get too "involved" because of distance. I know how it feels to want to be with someone, but you can't because they are so far. But many people have done it, and it's worked for them somehow. But just to meet someone? Just to hang out? I had no expectations other than to enjoy my time with someone. If things had developed further, great.. if not, that would have been ok too. Either way, whatever came of it would have been dealt with as it came up, or not.

Maybe it is something I should consider.. I just didn't want to discount someone I got along great with, because they live some distance away.

I had even offered to go to see him. Apparently, he didn't want that either, and danced around that when I brought it up.
--- Genevieve

:eek: Red flags all over that one, BIG-TIME!!

As time passes, you will learn to recognize the scam-artists and hustlers and their techniques.

What I liked about dating sites, is that the good ones demand some effort and money from the participants, so that it's not just a casual plaything like flipping on the TV. People need to be a bit more serious, in my opinion.

I've heard that nowadays, some of them require the filling out of lengthy questionnaires and they do psychological evaluations to weed out the creeps. ;)

Personally, I like the idea of "filtered" communication. That may be something you want to check out later on.

I wish you good luck!

Several years ago, a "friend" I met on the internet came from England to visit me. If there was any question we would only be friends, it was quickly forgotten when we met (he was an irritating, weasel of a man). Anyway, he was in the computer field (so he said) and I was having some problems with my computer. He gladly took a look to see if he could fix it.

About a month after he left, I received a bill from my internet provider in excess of $300! Upon their investigation, it seemed someone had been logging into my account from England and piggy-backed onto my account unnoticed. While we didn't incur any phone charges in the states for internet use, in England they were paying for each hour they spent on-line and those charges were going on my bill. Thankfully, my ISP erased the charges.

Like most everyone, I am too trusting and think everyone has the same morals and ethics that I do. Unfortunately, we all learn the hard way that it's just not so. It's very hard not to become jaded and cynical when it's always in the back of your mind that someone is lying to you or worse. Although I don't like seeing married men posting personal ads, I do applaud them for their honesty. It makes me wonder if the other 10 million single ads are all liars!

This may not be the place to say this, but I'm finding that alot of YM just can't handle the reality of being with an OW. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. I recently learned this the hard way too. Too many young men are more curiosity seekers than anything else and quite frankly, I wasn't put on this earth to be someone's guinea pig. Thankfully, many of you women have found the exceptions!

And Gen, when I read your post of the other thread, my heart sank for you .. I do know how you feel .. it hurts when they "get their wings" and unfortunately many of them do fly away.

Married guys posing single usually do not post their picture publicly. They will only give you their cell phone, not the home phone. Their email address are not like earthlink POP mail address. It is a "anyone" can sign up Yahoo or the like. They can't call you on holidays. They keep their last name and address to themselves. They talk about how they are very "private people". They seem REAL ready for a relationship. That is because it is much harder for them to get a girlfriend than it is a single guy. They disappear when the relationship can't go any further without revealing their circumstance. They try to get you to fall in love really fast (so that when you find out that they are married... you won't breakup with them).

You know IRL, before you give your total trust to ANYONE, you should see if the ACTIONS are matching the WORDS. Do they show up when they say they will? Do they do what they say they will do? Or is it talk about whether to move to your place or theirs IN THE FUTURE? Do we want one child or two... etc.

A great ploy if you are trying to go slow (make certain they really care for you) in the sex department, is to say, "I just want you all to myself. No interuptions, just you and me on a trip together..." Then you start planning it together... you take the trip... do the wild sex & passion deal and when you get back... he is cool... distant. Please don't fall for "the trip" trick.

I haven't had a guy from ageless or anywhere sucker me into a internet romance. Any thing seriously flirty was after friendship. Of course I had my Vegas adventure but that happens without Internet connections.

Main thing... see how open they are about themselves and don't take anything seriously until you have been with them IRL for 6 months or more. Believe me, I came by this information through some pain myself and the pain of having friends betrayed.

Loyalty and Honor are very important traits. Traits that real men have. Young and old, the guys some of you have been involved with, you too xmasbaby, just were not men. Young or old makes no difference. Their age doesn't matter, you would be left behind and used if he was an older man too. It just so happens that the guys you met were not men.

people can be really mean :( <hug> and yes, I guess it's harder to find out if someone is being "honest" with you in the virtual world.

Personally, I guess I might have been lucky so far not to make any downright bad experiences, but then I tend to be kinda cautious. - I can be trusting too, but I am aware when I do that it might be a write off. So far, my trust has not been misplaced in any online friendship (although I managed to fall out with a really good friend there, unfortunately), but I wouldn't necessarily credit my good sense, probably more my luck for that ;)

What I try to do though, however, is to take things slowly on the net and try to do some "cross-checks" where possible - i.e. only giving out personal infos, even mail details etc after MONTHS of actually dealing/chatting with that person (there have been a couple of exceptions, based on how ppl had been behaving over longer stretches of time in a social setting (= mmorpg, in my case). Basically, my assumption is that con-artist are going to look for some "quick wins" rather than investing serious time ;)

And when I met Nordic online, I already had some Norwegian friends there who knew him (independently of me), and I kinda kept validating things he told (like age, home, general details) with these friends who knew him from their community; that was kind of a trust-building exercise too, as everything they knew matched with what he told me - plus him being such a straight arrow ingame, made it easier to accept what he was saying for "real" ;) I guess otherwise, I would have been even more wary to get more deeply involved than I was to start with. But even so, I kind of suspended "believe" until we really met ...

I realise that this probably won't work for normal chat rooms or dating services (neither which I have ever used); but for online gamers, I think this works pretty well.

Hi,

Just some ideas; I was thinking if I was trying to meet a woman off here but had a family/significant other there would be a few things that would put me off.

1. Get his home phone number. It always surprises me that people who meet on-line don't exchange phone numbers quickly. Any guy that thinks you are half ok will give his home number out, block yours when you call but that will weed a lot of them out as anyone living with someone or in a LTR will not chance you calling home.

2. Check what times of the day they are on. If they are usually on early in the morning or late at night then it could be the only time they can get on without the significant other finding out about them.

3. If they suddenly dissappear off line every now and again, could be a technical problem but more likely them closing off any chat software to avoid discovery!!

Anyhow, just a few thoughts...

Jim
xx

I completely agree with Mauravel as for the telephone numbers. If someone goes as far as talk about LTR and setting a date to meet, he should also trust you enough to give you his phone number (at home, at work, mobile).

I would never accept to meet someone who wanted to keep his anonimity, this is crazy!

Gen, this is for you, it's Saturday, pamper yourself, take care of this sensitive woman you are:

http://sky2.cool.ne.jp/pl/nature/rose/r-basket1.gif

with both Xmasbaby and Carazy and Mauravel. I have found out not only by my experience but by friends I have met here, that many of the ym do come to the site out of curiousity, and once that curiosity had been satisfied they are "outta here" or get cold feet. But the relationships that I have seen that do work, and most are age gap, are those where the couples have met in game rooms...I guess which set up a solid foundation of common interest...an interest that was not "sexual" or "hoping for romance" or something close to those two. My friend (40) met her bf (26) in a game room, and the gaming turned in to laughing and the laughing turned into flirting, which led to private chat, phone calls and then meeting last month. They did click in person as well and are in love, BUT do have a problem as she is in Florida and he is in Canada. Time will tell when he comes here at Christmas, for leaving a country, I think, would be hard to do. So, maybe that is the way to go and just use this site as for its original purpose... support.


__________________
lrw

Meeting online is just that meeting. It takes face to face to actually make sure you are truly in love with them. Online we fall in love with words and ideas. I think sometimes we are so in love with the idea of being in love it can cloud our judgement.


I entirely agree with Nessa on this, sometimes (and this is true of IRL and online) we are so keen to be loved and be in love that we accept things at face value that we shouldn't.

We rush into relationships with our hearts open - expecting to be given the same in return and all too often lower our barriers to let in the kind of idiot we would never normally let in. That this happens when we are already a little fragile, just makes it all the harder to bear.

Of course none of this makes it our fault but we should do ourselves the favour of being careful with our own hearts.

Oh and by the way I mean this generally and don't mean to imply that Genevieve did this at all :)

When talking with someone online, I try to maintain a level head. I know that things can be completely different in person, and have often had to say this to someone I am chatting with. I realize that there is a perceived attraction when online, but in person, it can be a completely different story. My hurt came, because this person said all sorts of nice, wonderful things online and on the phone, came on all gung ho for me, but had not the guts to meet me face to face. Not even to see whether anything was really there or not. I did have his phone number, cell number, he had even called me from his work once and I knew where he worked. There was none of the usual indications of someone out to purposely deceive. In this particular instance, my thinking is that perhaps he chickened out, became confused, changed his mind. Whatever the reason, someone on the other end is bound to be hurt by it. I don't believe there was malicious intent here.. but that doesn't make the hurt any less. Which takes me back to saying what you mean, and meaning what you say, and something DHShogun said, about honor.

He was not capable of following through on his words with action. And would rather lose money on a plane ticket he'd already bought, than spend time with me. I know we are only human, but if at all possible, don't start something you can't finish, or follow through on. Don't make promises you can't keep. And in this case, not much else to do but accept what is, wish him well, and hope he finds what he's looking for, and for me to recoup, and hopefully come out better/smarter for it. Again, it's not the worst thing that's happened, and I'll be fine. Reading everyone's posts has helped greatly.

Yes, my heart was open to the possibility there, and I wanted to believe what was said to me. But the ultimate truth would have been tested by a face to face meeting. We both knew that. Now, he will never know.

Hey, shake him off! It's obvious he lived by his name, a BIG ***!

It is true that there are all kinds of scary stories about people meeting over the net. I knew all about them and was kind of leary myself about meeting anyone that way.

I guess I was lucky in that the only person I have met that way turned out to be someone who is an honest and genuine person. But, then, neither one of us had come to this site "hunting" for someone. That was not our purpose in seeking this board out. We just happened to find each other. And he not only talks the talk and walks the walk, he lives the life. So I can assure you xmas baby that not all of the YM on this site are here to satisfy some curiosity. Some truly have a love of OW and are willing to buck society and go for it!!

My advice is to be cautious and careful and follow your gut feelings, but don't become jaded and cynical and think that all the YM here are just here for a lark. Because I do not think that is the case.

YEAH!

So I can assure you xmas baby that not all of the YM on this site are here to satisfy some curiosity.

I wasn't referring to the young men here .. just young men in general. There are many genuine people on the net, as most of us can attest to. And it's not just a net thing .. it's life's garden .. just have to learn what's a weed and what's not.

I think that young men who are familiar with what Ageless is about for the most part are not here just to play or satisfy a curiosity. However, I'm sure many do come here with just that intent. There is nothing wrong with that, if that is what you are looking for, as long as you are honest about it. You may or may not "get lucky" here, but at least there is no pretense, or game playing. And these are usually the young men who post once or twice and really don't let anyone have a chance to know them a bit. Perhaps if they were more serious about finding an older woman, they'd hang out now and then, and post. Not sure about that... maybe some are just shy, who knows. The problem, is with those who may seem to be sincere/truthful, but ultimately for whatever reason, aren't.


PS. xmasbaby, I used to pick dandelions as a kid thinking they were pretty flowers.. now I know what my problem is!!:D

PS. xmasbaby, I used to pick dandelions as a kid thinking they were pretty flowers.. now I know what my problem is!!

Funny you mentioned that, Gen. I was going to make a reference to the cups filled with dandelions that my kids used to bring me, having to put them on display after gushing over them.

That just goes to show you that one man's weed is another man's rose.

Maybe a dandelion is a good analogy .. they look pretty until they get the white, puffy thing on it and make everyone with allergies go crazy .. kind of like a man (or a woman) .. they start off good sometimes .... but end up driving you nuts! lol

And then again, my grandmother used to make omelettes out of dandelions .. sometimes, you just have to be creative.

As a child I also brought home stray dogs.. and would feed them, nurse them back to health.. I felt so bad for them..

Once in college, I brought home a guy I had been seeing. After he left, my dad looked at me, shook his head slowly and said.. "stray dogs, and puppies.. you're still bringing them home." He was making a joke sort of.. but in a way, it was true. A perfect analogy. No more stray dog men for me!

So now instead of the saying.. "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade".. I'm going to start using the "When life hands you dandelions, make omelettes!"

Haha.. :D
I think my grandmother used to make some kind of soup with them.

Lady in Green>>>>


I am kinda partial to the Aussie men! ~wink~ He is more mature than the American young men I have met....so I will get flamed too.

I do believe there are mature young American men out there...I just haven't met them yet...However, I must say that my son is 25 years old, has lived with a woman 9 years older than he for the past 3 years and he works very hard at providing for her. And most people think he is in his 30's because of the way he acts.

Thanks Yvonne,

But I think that's part of the problem. We don't always know until it's too late whether or not someone is sincere, or a troll.

Yes, there are those who PM and ask silly questions like "what are you wearing?".. etc. Those have troll written all over them.

But sometimes, these guys come off as though they are genuinely interested, and then for whatever reason, after they have your attention, your interest, and your hopes up, drop you like a hot potato just before you are planning to meet them.. Those are the guys I don't get. Guys like that are always "nice" about it too. They never want to burn their bridges or look like the bad guy. They say things like. . 'you are too good for me', or 'I'm going through some wierd phase right now'. Ugh. Just don't start anything if you are not ready! It makes no sense to me. :( At least meet someone first, then if you don't think it's going to work out, that's fine.. say so. I dunno.. my head hurts thinking about it. LOL Sometimes I wonder, if it's just to see how much attention they can get, how many women they can get interested in them. Who knows? I just know I'm going to be more careful from now on.

As long as we are voting our international preferences, I vote for Italian men. :D

Originally posted by Genevieve
.... They say things like. . 'you are too good for me', or 'I'm going through some wierd phase right now'. ...

Hm, heard this "you're too good for me" shite a couple of times in my life and yes, I agree its one the biggest cop-out, really ;)

Actually, after the first time I was told such a thing I was totally flabbergasted like you are now about "why" this guy was behaving the way he did - and after that decided to downright drop any guy in the future who ever says that to me again the moment he's saying it ;)

Still, I have mellowed on this attitude a bit in my last case: Nordic was on the verge of chickening out of our second meeting like 1-day before I was supposed to travel - and he said something along the lines you mentioned- at which I kinda went mental on him about that - and turned out he didn't mean it the way I received it, but for him it was part of his "trauma" of our first meeting when I really broke his heart - so he was genuinely scared and insecure at that time ... - considering that he did have reason to feel that way, we talked about our fears and insecurities for a bit. Mind you, when I told him that I would cancel my trip if he didn't feel up for it or didn't want me to come, anymore... - and but he didn't want that either, and we ended up having a really nice, relaxed time together :D

Guess what I am saying is that sometimes you bite off more than you can chew, and not wanting to defend the young guy in question, Gen, but some of these things are pretty hard to handle at my (?!) age - I guess it can make you freak out and act "cowardly" even if you do have good intentions (like I chickened out at Nordic's and my first meeting, even though I went) ... but at least this guy would owe you an apology or explanation as well as some general honesty .... <hug>

the 'You are too good for me' routine. And after it was said to me...and after I had time to be sad, think and regroup, the ym was right! So from that point on, I decided that if ever comes up again, I will just agree for I probably am!

Originally posted by Carazy


Guess what I am saying is that sometimes you bite off more than you can chew, and not wanting to defend the young guy in question, Gen, but some of these things are pretty hard to handle at my (?!) age - I guess it can make you freak out and act "cowardly" even if you do have good intentions (like I chickened out at Nordic's and my first meeting, even though I went) ... but at least this guy would owe you an apology or explanation as well as some general honesty .... <hug>

I agree Carazy, and I do believe this was perhaps part of it. I don't believe he intentionally set out to hurt anyone. And perhaps it is a question of knowing well enough what it is you want, and for someone younger, it may be even more difficult to handle. Maybe with the "you are too good for me line", and then disappearing was the only way he knew how to handle it. It's ok though. I'm not the type to hold a grudge. I just let him go. It wasn't meant to be.

EDIT: blondie, I agree with Carazy here too.. just enjoy your time together, no expectations other than that. Go with the flow, and have fun!

Originally posted by blondie
Hi,
After what seems like half a lifetime of knowing him, I plan to go to Spain to meet my ym at the end of the week! ooh mammy. Yours is a very interesting thread for me at this time, Gen. If he doesn't show up, for WHATEVER reason, I will know for sure that it is just not meant to be. And I will try to enjoy the Prado alone.

It was a difficult thread to read. Another hard thing to face is how I will act if I don't like him, after leading him on for four years. I am just going to stay for two days. Long distance stuff is horrible, but sometimes it could work to a person's advantage...

I hope you will meet the right person, and for everyone, don't exclude real life situations for first-time meetings.

Good luck to you, Blondie ;) My advise is to really go with no expectations other than to enjoy yourself ... - and that's easier said than done, though ;) If you only can see him a short time, don't make any rash decisions (like I did initially), rather try again until you "recognise" each other irl again and then you can see if it can work ;)

It worked fine for us the second time round, now we're missing each other more irl than before, but he's coming over to see me in about 2 weeks ;) so, try to keep things relaxed and hope for the best ;) and TALK about it, whatever it is you are feeling when you are meeting ;) but I guess I don't really need to tell you, but then again I thought I knew and screwed up anyway first time round :p

<hug> hope it works out fine ;)

Originally posted by LadyInGreen817

Also, I know I am going to get flamed big-time myself for saying this, but "GO BRITISH", as they are far more mature than American younger men, seem to be more sure of what they want from life,and are more open-minded, overall. (OKAY, LET THE FLAMING BEGIN, LOL)

I must be completely honest though and tell you that I am completely prejudiced in my statement, with regard to British young men. (hee hee hee)


DITTO TO THAT YVONNE!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ~Guinavere~
[B]
I am kinda partial to the Aussie men! ~wink~ He is more mature than the American young men I have met....so I will get flamed .

IQUOTE]

Aussie men are a pain in the *** too, like any other men in the world:D

...but i love them all:p

. . . and we love you too Adri, I don't care what they say about you. . . oops. . . I mean well, I'll stop now. . . :D

there you are!!!
Thank you:)

I've seen at least one case in Ageless where the guy was not real at all. I even think he had used a false picture on his avatar. I don't know of any broken hearts because of him, but I wonder if women sometimes are not too embarassed to say, maybe some of them just quit the site and go away.

Nafadda says that the same thing happens in real life. She's right. I've seen cases where the girl dated the guy for a time before finding out he had a family, children, wife. The kind of man that does that, does it online with much more facilities. I wonder if normal guys who would not have the guts to do this IRL would do it online because he has less chances of being caught.


http://sky2.cool.ne.jp/pl/animal/gorilla2.gif

"Aussie men are a pain in the *** too, like any other men in the world:D

...but i love them all:p "


Adri>>>>> I agree!! :D

Originally posted by MariaLux
I've seen at least one case in Ageless where the guy was not real at all. I even think he had used a false picture on his avatar. I don't know of any broken hearts because of him, but I wonder if women sometimes are not too embarassed to say, maybe some of them just quit the site and go away.

Nafadda says that the same thing happens in real life. She's right. I've seen cases where the girl dated the guy for a time before finding out he had a family, children, wife. The kind of man that does that, does it online with much more facilities. I wonder if normal guys who would not have the guts to do this IRL would do it online because he has less chances of being caught.


http://sky2.cool.ne.jp/pl/animal/gorilla2.gif

This reminds me of the time some guy sent me a pic of an Ambercrombie & Fitch model and told me it was him! I also get stuff from married guys too.. I stay away from that. But yes, some do lie about their situations, and I agree that the anonymity and safety behind the computer screen can sometimes make that all too easy.

I met a guy playing an online RPG and he and I became friends. He told me he was 40 and later I found out he was 16!!! Thank goodness we were only friends!! I still regret some of the "adult" humor and personal situations I shared with him. We must be so careful online!

Wow your brave and good luck. I'd probably do the same for some closure though. I think if he is saying he wont be there knowing all this trouble you went to, phewy on him. But maybe he will surprise you when he sees your very serious.

If I was going to meet my guy out on the east coast and he said "I might not make it"Oooooh boy!! Then I guess Im a hellion cuz Id tell him off <g> .

So I wish you a safe and fun trip and god works in wondrous ways, perhaps something else wonderful will happen even if that doesnt :) I believe that we are where we are supposed to be each moment and maybe your meant to be in Spain.

because I bounce back so quickly when guys stand me UP because i HAVE PROBABLY BEEN STOOD UP ABOUT 200 X IN THE PAST 8 YRS...i FEEL ACTIONS REALLY DO SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS...IF A MAN IS REAL, YOU WILL SEE HIM SHOW UP AT THE AIRPORT...i NO LONGER GIVE MY HEART TO A MAN UNLESS i HAVE WALKInG, BREATHING, LIVING PROOF OF mANY MANY DATES...NOT ONLY THAT BUT ON THIS BOARD, i HAVE HAD A kY COLLEGE STUDENT/PLAYING BASEBALL AND IN MED SCHOOL AND A GUY FROM iNDIANNA, AS WELL AS A LAW STUDENT FROM cONN. STAND ME UP AFTER MAKING PLANS TO COME TO THE dc AREA AND MEET...SO THEIR EMAILS HAVE BEEN BLOCKED AND THEY HAVE BEEN IGNORED...NO FEELINGS AT ALL HAVE GONE TOWARDS THEM...I WAS CURIOUS TO SEE IF THEY WOULD SHOW AND THEY DIDN'T...NO SLEEP WAS LOST...ONE CAN'T WASTE TIME OVER NO SHOWS...JUST EXPECT DISAPPOINTMENT AND BE SURRPISED HAPPILY IF THEY SHOW UP...BUT IN THE END, THOSE IN FOR THE LONG HAUL WILL MEET YOU FOR A DATE AND KEEP MEETING YOU FOR MORE DATES...HADLEY..

I will never understand the whole being stood up deal. Why is it so easy for me to make a committment?

Because you are not afraid of it and probably this is what you want the most, DHShogun. But some people are not ready to it, they just want to play with it, to play with the situation of being with someone and making believe it's love or going to be love.

Usually people that fall in love too fast over the net (and in real life too) belong to three categories:
1. They are not really serious about their feelings, but want to try it. Some go as far as to play with it.
2. They "need" and want so much to be in love, that they create the impression of love and believe it. They are in love with love, not with the person in front of them. If they are lucky, love can really follow.
3. They were lucky and found the real love of their lives and that's why it's so easy to love them.

That' how I see things, from my experience. The worse kind of people are in the first category; they don't care about the other, because as they are not really in love, and probably they don't know what it is, they don't have a clue about how painful it is to find out everything was a joke.

Originally posted by blondie
... Then I called him today, and he's not positive if he will make it there!!! ...

Well, if he is serious, he will find ways to make it there - he might be late if there is something really urgent that might keep him, but he would be there ;) if not, you are better off without him ;)

There was a moment when Nordic wasn't sure if he could pick me up from the airport after I had booked my flight (coz he had in his mind already scheduled me for the following week). But he went immediately to sort it out so that he could be there ... ;)

But then, that was our second meeting ... for the first meeting, I actually preferred not to be picked up but to meet elsewhere; I guess it made me feel more in control of the situation to get my settled in my hotel first, getting a feel for the area etc before meeting ;) but I know Nordic would have been there if I hadn't really made a point of rather meeting later in town ;)

So, in either case, hope things will work out well for you in whatever way, Blondie, and have a brilliant time in Spain - and believe me, it's sooo hot in Europe at the moment, make sure to bring lots of swimsuits ;)

Wow, Blondie. good for you to take your relationship to the next step--whether it be up or down. Remember, if he doesn't show up, there are lots of gorgeous men in Spain to flirt with.

I will extend credibility to you, blondie. Just keep us updated on this long saga. It is like one of those romance novels where the lovers, after their initial passionate encounter, get separated and then keep on just missing each other for years as they travel around the world and get themselves into different kinds of trouble. Granted, teaching high school and starting a new job aren't really getting into trouble, but it will work for an Ageless romance saga if it keeps you apart.

http://images.animfactory.com/animations/people_m_z/teachers/woman_teacher_blackboard_md_wht.gif

You dont lose credibility because you did something smart! You gain it. It would have been exciting to go, but would have hurt if he could not show up. So you just did what makes you feel happy for now.

I hope it works out and that in the future you two can meet.

Believe me I have issues too with my YM and his "I cant come now" thing. But I have to put some faith in him until he actually lets me down, I keep tellin myself that.

So until your guy actually "stands you up" he doesnt really lose credibility in my eyes. He said he cant be there and at least he did not allow you to show up and just not show. That gives him a few points .

I think I'll know in around late Sept/October if mine is just full of beans or not. That is about when the things keeping him from coming now will straighten themselves out.

We shall see!! Keep me posted because I am almost in the same boat as you.

Heather

Yea I agree Gen.....you really do have to meet. There is just no sure way to know til' then. I once believed that you could tell before meeting and was proven drastically wrong.

I cant believe that guy did that though!! Meet you once then stand you up and pull that crap, wow what a total jerk he is.

Im sorry you had to meet such a dope.

Originally posted by Raven Magdalene
As for that guy, Gen, as a New Yorker...I wouldn't mind getting him in a dark alley and have some of the 'boyz' play with him a bit...see what song he'll sing then. ;)
Funny you say this.. because I remember when this happened a year ago, and I sat waiting in my car for almost two hours (how dumb, I know!).. then cried on the way home (dumber yet!).. when I got home, my youngest brother was there because he had been staying with my kids and though I tried to hide my emotional state from everyone, he could see that something was wrong.. now, we are not New Yorkers, but we are Chicago Italians.. :cool: and my brother was ready go to and kick some serious butt!

But.. I am also a believer that in the grand scheme of things in the universe, what goes around comes around, and maybe that is why he titled his ad that way. Who knows?

It's ok though.. you live and learn the hard way. The thing is.. I don't want to become so "jaded", that I never believe anything someone says to me online. I'd like to believe people, until they prove otherwise, or notice that their actions don't coincide with their words. I know there are great guys out there, and I don't want to miss out on one by categorizing him with others that are not honest and have integrity. There is a lot to be said for the beginning stages, the learning of each other, asking questions, etc., and yes, it is a process. But one I hope is well worth it.

Thanks Raven.. :)
Gen

Genevieve,

I'm a bit late to this thread...but I thought I would throw in my comments. You are obviously a thougtful woman and I'm sad to read about your travails.

First my stats:) I'm 47...never married...but soon to marry my YW.
I've dated literally thousands of women...some older...some younger. I'm a college professor and two of the most interesting courses I teach are Psychology of Women and Marriage and the Family.

I mention this because I see in your posts a tendency to enage in common cognitive distortions that I see in many males and females.....particularly females (due to developmental influences).

This is the tendency to "romanticize" interactions and relationships.

Knowing someone on the internet is NOT the same as knowing someone in person. Interacting on the internet is NOT anything close to interacting in person. The SOB who led you on is certainly to be condemned for this....but you also fooled yourself into thinking you had a real connection to this person.

??? Real connections are built over time through 3d realtime interactions with people. The net is a nice way to make an initial connection BUT it cannot possibly provide the multitude of "connection points" that a real relationship provide. EVEN if the person is being authentic and honest...an internet relationship is a mere simulation of the real thing. It is nothing like seeing--touching---and relating to a real human being in the flesh.

You mention that distance only matters if you allow it to matter. This is simply not true...there is a ton of peer-reviewed literature on the failure rate of long-distance relationships. Sure some work...but a very small %. Relationships are hard enough...adding distance, in most cases, will severely strain even good solid relationships.

Phone conversations are not sufficient to build long lasting relations.....personal contact . Lots of personal contact...day in and day out. This is the "meat" of intimate interactions. Internet chats and conversations are a mere sliver of the real thing.

Human beings have the infinite capacity of deception (benign and malignant) and this occurs even in real-time 3d relationships. The net only increases this exponentially.

I can't tell you how many young and older females I have had sit in my class and tell stories similar to yours. They have all kinds of romantic fantasies that fueled their poor choices (" he was my soulmate" or "we had something spiritual..I know it!!". In all these cases the "metaphysical" model of relationships ended in pain.

I don't mean to imply that you did anything wrong. You didn't.

You had internet conversations with a stranger...never met him...really didn't know him....but you told yourself that you DID know him...after all you did have phone conversations where you honestly shared part of yourself...and assumed that he did to.

I am not suggesting a hard, cold approach to relationships and love. I am suggesting a very cool, rational approach to any initial connections with anyone, internet or otherwise. Until you have had extended real, in-person contact...there is simply no way to know what exists bewteen you.

By the way...when this topic comes up in class...I barely make it out of lecture alive. Many folks cling to a highly magical model of relationships!

Just my 2 cents....

Tom

LOL Yea Tom I am so sorry but I have to cling to my magical model.

The way you put it sounds so eloquent though. :)

HeatherLynn,

Well...ah thanks I think:)

Tom (no magic here!!)

Thanks for the great post, Tom. Hopefully, all the women and men who have not yet met their Internet lovers will give it serious consideration. The Internet is not a magical universe where every word of love and commitment is certified by Cupid. As long as one is prepared to bounce back easily from a possible disappointment, instead of crashing into horrific depression and self-loathing as has happened to many women here on Ageless when they were betrayed, then one can continue floating on the magical cloud of Internet love. I hope that the more vulnerable people involved in Internet relationships do not fall into the pit of detaching themselves from reality and do take Tom's points into consideration.

Tom you seem like an intelligent man, but any one who has dated "literally thousands of women" does not get my vote. I'll go with magic, AND keeping your eyes open.

I agree with some of what you have said. But you are not saying anything I don't already know. My disappointment was that this most recent incident (not the one from last year), involved making plans to meet, then him cancelling at the last minute, lying about it, then not talking to me anymore.. and yes, that was hurtful, and I wondered why it happened that way. But I did not crash into deep depression, or self-loathing. It sucks when someone lies to you, no matter where it is. Plain and simple.

Truth and honesty should be found anywhere. People need to remember that there is an actual living, breathing human being on the other end of the computer screen, and should act accordingly. Unfortunately, the nature of the internet does allow for deception, moreso than in person. I had no feelings of love for this person. We seemed to get along/hit it off online. Liked each other. I just wanted to meet him. He apparently wanted to meet me. See what happened from there. I think I had my head on straight, and had no romantic illusions of love whatsoever. There was a promise of maybe something more happening. Never thought he was my soulmate. I do like to think that I'm not some school girl here. I have been around the block a time or two. I just think that it would be nice if people would say what they mean, and mean what they say. I've learned that is not always the case, especially online. The reason for planning a meeting was exactly that.. to see if anything did indeed exist in the "real" world setting. He was not man enough to follow through. Nor was he a person of his word. Simple as that. I felt I knew him enough to be comfortable enough for an initial face to face meeting. No one can know anyone completely.. even in person. I know that internet is NOT the same, that's why the face to face meeting. There are stories of people who have met online, met in person, and found successful relationships. People have also moved to another state to be with the one they've found. I see the net as the "initial" contact. What happens from there, is anyone's guess..

Gen, you nailed it sis! I've seen people duped in real life (myself included) just as much as online. Unfortunately, people with integrity in this society are the minority these days. Lots of players, liers, cheaters, scam artists and undesirables out there...... online AND offline!!

I met my guy here at ageless in March, met him in person in April and the meet was a smooth transition from online to offline. We both got lucky to meet another as honest as ourselves. So the facts we had given were solidified in real life. Neither of us assumed perfection, but the things we knew about the other's personality and charactor was proven in the flesh. Yea, we have not had the time in real life, day to day to prove if we got what it takes for the long haul....... but we are definately friends that love each other now for who the other is (flaws and all). That is why he is moving here in two wks...... to further test this relationship in the flesh, because it feels too right to give up.

My best friend's older sister has a lovely story of how she met her husband. He was in the FIRST gulf war. Her young daughter from (a previous marriage) was given the task of writing a soldier for a school project. She wrote a letter and it was blindly handed to this Marine. He read it and it warmed his heart, so he wrote back to the young girl. Rebecca (her mom) read the reply and it warmed her heart. So she wrote the soldier. They began corresponding thru mail the entire time he was at war. When he returned to the states, he flew in to meet Rebecca and the daughter. He proposed and married her before he had to leave for his last tour. She packed up and they went with him to Greenland and froze with him for a year. Then came back here, settled down and had two more daughters together. Their marriage isn't perfect, but it's as strong as any others.

Point is, long distance love can work and stands as much a chance as local love, if two people have they heads on straight. The internet allows you meet someone you'd otherwise NEVER cross paths with. But you have to be on guard for the same deceit we see in real life.

Living in fantasyland isn't just for women online...... I have girlfriends that do that every other week with a guy they met, LOL...... so quit bashing online possibilities, Mr. "I've dated thousands of women"....... meeting someone compatible is a gamble no matter what medium you use!

Gypsy

Here here!!! Gypsyheart Here here!!! Kudos. There are slimy bastards and bastardettes everywhere. Keep your eyes open, but also keep them open to the possibilities!!

Lets say Tom started dating at 17.
(remember now we would have differant statistics if he started dating at 14 or 15 or even 16 There are 365 days in the year.]
He has dated for 30 years.
That is 10,500 days
Lets say he dated 1000 women.
so to get an estimate take 52 weeks x 30 years
that equals 1,560.00 weeks
So whats so bad about having less than 1 date a week with a differant woman or about 3 or 4 a month?
To each their own...........
He didn't say he was boinking them did he?
Maybe he is not the marrying type, just like many aren't the child having type.

No matter what, if you get stood up it hurts. And no matter where you meet someone if they stand you up they are not a person of their word. At least not in all situations.

I do believe that internet relationships are harder than when you meet in as Tom says "3D". I envy people that already have met and are in something more real.

But I could then get into what is really real and then Id become a pretzel in my brain for the rest of the evening. <g>

Anyway, it was a good post Tom.

Thanks for the input.

Heather

Snowprincess I did the math too, and I did not assume he was boinking them. One woman a month or two is not enough time to have ANY idea of what that woman is about.

I wasn't dissing him about the "1000 women" really..... he just rubbed me the wrong way with his post(s) being so negative about budding online relationships. People come here for lots of reasons, and hope is one of them.

Maybe I'm overly sensitive tonight, but his tone seemed too assuming that all "online relationships" are bogus, fantasy, etc......... yea isn't real until you have touched the other, held them, kissed them, talked all night face to face, seen them sick, and so on......... but I still believe in "possibilities" whether they are online, long distance, interracial, or next door!

The key is to stay real, don't invest emotion too quickly, and take it slow....... guess, I just wanted to counteract that negative karma he was throwing out there. I get so tired of pessimism regarding online relationships. They're harder, more of a gamble, but worth it in the end if you two people find what they were looking for.

Just my .02 cents........

I never did intend to fall in love with an older woman myself. Me and my Suzy-woozy were just friends at first with the same interests(i.e. David Lee Roth). Then one day she mentioned out of the blue that she wanted to meet me, so we exchanged phone numbers and such and met at Circus circus in Las Vegas. That came about due to the fact that I was lonely and her fiance left for another woman. All I cared about in our relationship was making her happy. Wherein she made me happy also.

As for long-distance relationships, they only work if a person is stuck out in the middle of nowhere (i.e. Yuma, AZ) and the only ladies around are ones who live near the base and illegals who can't speak english. I prefer to keep work and my personal life seperate and didn't want someone in my unit nagging about my gf and pissing her off.

So basically I wound up becoming in love with an older woman unintenionaly and have been with her ever since.

Gypsy.. you rock! You are not overly sensitive. Possiblity and hope. It can and has worked, just keep it real as much as possible in the virtual world. I think what's important too, is that a person can keep that positive outlook alive, even after many disappointments, etc.

Jeffy-weffy, yes, it is a support site, but people have met from here, and/or are interested in age gap relationships in one form or another. You've undoubtedly seen the personal ad section, so that is another place for people to make initial contact, or post an ad.

Raven, my brother didn't end up going after anyone.. haha.. but it was nice that he wanted to! And yes.. steamed mussels in marinara sauce are awesome! (I'm getting hungry :( )

Living in fantasyland isn't just for women online...... I have girlfriends that do that every other week with a guy they met, LOL...... so quit bashing online possibilities, Mr. "I've dated thousands of women"....... meeting someone compatible is a gamble no matter what medium you use!
--- Gypsy

Mocking someone who offered such a helpful post is really not the way to go. The way I read Tom's post is that he was just laying out a statistics-based analysis, based on a cool appraisal of facts: Only a tiny percentage of LDRs will make it.

To equate this with "bashing online possibilities" is totally misguided. He is simply laying out the odds, explaining why failure is far, far, far more likely than success.

If I were a single woman, I'd definitely listen closely to him. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that his years of studying for a Ph.D were actually worthwhile and that he knows of what he speaks.

What if an inner-city teacher were to give an informational talk to a bunch of 13-year-old black kids and tell them "Guys, statistically speaking you each have only a 1- in - 10,000 chance of ever making it to the NBA. So, is it really smart to spend 5.4 hours a day playing basketball? How about cracking open some books instead?"

Just imagine the disbelieving response once the teacher leaves the room: "Man, shut up! Don't nobody wanna hear that crap! I'm gon' be like Michael Jordan!!" :rolleyes:

But guess what? The teacher's right even if it sounds like negative karma. After all those hours of shooting hoops, at age 18 most of those kids will be serving fries at Arby's or working the janitorial night shift at a local office building. They just failed to understand statistics.

No one wants to believe that the statistics apply to him.

Go figure.

I don't believe he was being mocked, nor did his post go unappreciated. He said many good, true things... however, if you are going to use statistics, then saying you dated thousands of women.. well, I dunno.

And I am an inner-city teacher, please, give those kids more credit. They know the odds better than anyone. They live it every day.

The point is.. be pessimistic or optimistic or something in between. I'd like to believe that anything is possible.

I realize statistics are there because of studies and figures drawn together by some bean-counter. I guess he rubbed me the wrong way on another post to a new member asking for support in a new online relationship. To me, his posts to this person was condescending and too much "know it all" thrown in there.

Jung writes:
This is the kind of thing that gets many young females to completely screw their lives...giving up career and families.. because "oooo I'm so in love...he's my soulmate" kinda thinking...despite the fact they don't even know each other

There are valid points he made, and I'll say anyone in a new realtionship (online or otherwise) should keep their head screwed on straight and keep it real. BUT don't tell me statistics are the end all.

Statistics say that because both my parents were alcoholics, I have a certain chance of becoming one........ well I'm not! Statistics say that because I was an abused child, I'll abuse my own........ guess again! Statistics say that without a college education, I won't do as well in life...... I do fine thank you.

Point is...... you can look at the numbers all you want. You can sit back and say "why bother" because the odds are against me. I feel life is what YOU make it and I don't see it as black and white as some do. I prefer my shades of gray, and the hope that I won't become another "statistic"....... and "possibilities" are all I need to keep pluggin along and trying.

Just the way I feel about it. :)

"If I were a single woman, I'd definitely listen closely to him. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that his years of studying for a Ph.D were actually worthwhile and that he knows of what he speaks."

why? wasn't he just saying that we shouldn't assume we know someone just based on what they say on the internet?

"I have a PhD...I'm a teacher...I've dated thousands of women.."

Yeah, I've seen plenty of guys say things like that before....

not that's he's wrong, or that he isn't who he says he is....but lets not go and crown him the relationship expert quite yet...the only thing we know about him is that, like everyone else, he has an opinion....

If you've beat the odds enough, and know you can again, I guess nobody can hold ya back!

Gypsyheart, the thing that bothered me was that he seemed to profess to be some sort of expert on relationships and if each of his 1000's lasted less than a week or so, who is he to speak. I am no expert either and I hope he and his YW are happy for 1000s of weeks.

I have to agree with Tom...most long distance relationships don't work...you have to calmly look at the situation , and yes, we women tend initially to romanticise things too much..I know in the past, mine have not lasted...and I also have dated maybe 800 guys...and I agree with Snow...dating does not mean doing the deed ...and I also agree with Gen, it hurts when people are less than honorable in their intent or seem fickle ...at least call, but I also agree with Gyps..."keep it real"...love does not always bloom, and many times long distance works cause of the brains behind the letters...my ex and I were separated during Vietnam for about a year, and we made it work with a letter each day ...when the mail was .06 per letter...and no phone and no e mail...it can work...but choose your partner well...so far I am lucky and amazed that Mr. AZ is still hanging in there making a lot of plans for our Labor Day Weekend meet...I will keep you posted......all I know is he calls ea. day and writes each day and sends gifts...time will tell if he shows up in 15 days and again in Oct. to meet my family...time will tell if I like AZ at Xmas...to meet his family...I do know he is wrorry free..Hadley

Originally posted by swanqueen
Gypsyheart, the thing that bothered me was that he seemed to profess to be some sort of expert on relationships and if each of his 1000's lasted less than a week or so, who is he to speak. I am no expert either and I hope he and his YW are happy for 1000s of weeks.

If I was you.... i would listen again!
he is not wrong and it makes sense what he says!

you are in the first stages of being in love with someone now.
but ....my dear, not everything is color Rose!!

Think again.... and dont disregard other people opinions, you dont have to follow anybody's advices, but listening and registering what you are reading here will help you a lot!!

Oh, by the way....Welcome to Ageless:)

Sorry, Adri, Just to be sure I went back and read it again. I have words to say but they would not be polite so I won't. I am not narrowminded, I am not overly romantic (some would say the opposite) If you want my true opinion I will send you a private message. (not towards you, towards the original post we are discussing) I don't wish to be rude and I have very strong feelngs on the subject.

Dont worry...suit yourself and best of luck then:)
Welcome again

Originally posted by Harrison
....
Mocking someone who offered such a helpful post is really not the way to go. The way I read Tom's post is that he was just laying out a statistics-based analysis, based on a cool appraisal of facts: Only a tiny percentage of LDRs will make it.

To equate this with "bashing online possibilities" is totally misguided. He is simply laying out the odds, explaining why failure is far, far, far more likely than success.

... Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that his years of studying for a Ph.D were actually worthwhile and that he knows of what he speaks.
....

Ok,I know I am hardly unbiased when it comes to budding online and long-distance relationships, and I am also NOT saying Tom is totally wrong in the assessment he is giving. He PROBABLY is right (althought this is a gut feeling probability, don't ask me for the numbers :p ).

However, you know the saying about believing statistics you haven't faked yourself :p . Being an academic and researcher by background, and having spent enough time in academia to have seen how a lot of so-called "serious" research has been conducted (especially in the social or socially-related sciences, including economics ;) ), I would really like to see the studies that he is referring to, before I would be totally convinced. Any study (be it on ldr or other things) will have a set of assumption and a data selection - unless I have seen those as well as the hypotheses tested, any "scientific statement" to this effect is not overly meaningful for me. Also, the type and content of questionnaire as well as the interview tools might provide some bias in the sample - it's amazing how much bias you can introduce in questions just by phrasing them in one way rather than the other or by the ranking of questions :p ....

My GUT feeling is that he might be right ... - but than I am sceptic in general, my current, budding irl relationship with Nordic non-withstanding.

So, I think people should be aware that the ODDS might not be great to have a "successful" (= happy ever after) online match or working ldr, but statistics are built around the average; they don't say ANYTHING about the individual case.

As someone else said, keep your head screwed on and IF YOU WANT take that risk of an online and/or ldr relationship - go for it, by all means ;) It might not work out, but hey, there are few guarantees in life ;)

For anyone who doesn't want to risk it, fair enough - don't do it ;) Some people prefer dating in a bar/club/pub, whatever - others don't - so each to his own, as I said elsewhere ;)

Well at least he started a lively conversation :)

Originally posted by JUng
...
First my stats:) I'm 47...never married...but soon to marry my YW.
I've dated literally thousands of women...some older...some younger. I'm a college professor and two of the most interesting courses I teach are Psychology of Women and Marriage and the Family.

I mention this because I see in your posts a tendency to enage in common cognitive distortions that I see in many males and females.....particularly females (due to developmental influences).

This is the tendency to "romanticize" interactions and relationships.
...there is a ton of peer-reviewed literature on the failure rate of long-distance relationships. Sure some work...but a very small %. ...

Actually, Tom got me thinking about these "tons" of peer-reviewed literature on the failure rate of LDRs ... Now, so far I have had neither time nor inclination to check them out (too busy :p ), but let me just hypothesize a bit on these studies: My guess is that they might be US studies, to start with. And without any offence to US readers, this hardly qualifies as a representative sample (in cultural, economical and social aspects) for the rest of the world. For example, aside from these factors, in many parts of the world there is far less free or "low-cost" use of the internet and internet facitilities than in the States. Which in turn means you will in other parts of the world more likely have a different socio-economic profile of the "average" internet user than in the US.
Then again - how do you define "ldr" relationship? - and note, that ldr does not necessarily mean "online relationship" - but this is what we have been focsing on in this debate here. Another bias in the sample ;)
Then, even if you talk about "online relationships" - take a sub-sample of internet users who play MMORPGs - I am choosing this coz this is what I am most familiar with, but I guess you could choose other sub-samples, too. Now, without having researched the subject, my observation is skewed towards own experience and the things I have happened to read in passing. But according to that you will find, quite likely, that the average MMORPG player in Europe at least is male, 18 - 27 (or around that) and with strong IT affinity, most likely to be either an IT professional or an IT student of some sort (yes, you do have a significant number of kids playing, but considering what I said about cost of internet use in most of Europe and own experience I would argue they are limited; and you do have a number of "older players" - and as I have found from personal experience,if they are not IT people, they tend to be in professions that have strong involvement with IT, like accountants, consultants, researchers).

What you DON'T tend to find en masse are language and teaching professionals, i.e. people whose profession are very f2f-orientated and largely based on interpersonal social interactions - there are some, for sure, but again, on average, I would guess they are a minority ....
Now, this is a pretty biased sample of people to work with, and again not comparable to any possibly "representative sample" on LDR ...

If you take if further and look at the "average" profile of MMORPG player - chances are you might find someone with a propensity for the use of word and numbers over immediate social interaction (I am generalizing of course, but it's a hypothesis about AVERAGES ;) ). Also I would argue that they tend to be people with a high level of idiosyncracies and a sense for "non-conformity" .... - now mix them together with the same type of "unconventionals", and if you don't come out with a significantly higher "success rate" of online or ldr relationships than with a "representative sample", I would be highly surprised ;)

Just saying, it all depends on the content and focus of the studies used, and as a good researcher Tom knows that, I am sure ;) . I just wanted to add this because I think such a point-blank statement about the "failure rate" of LDR under the "guise" of "I am an academic, so I should know" (sorry, Tom, it did come across to me like that, apologies if you didn't mean to "stress" your professional expertise as a means to enhance your credibility :p ) is essentially meaningless.

However, I would be happy to privately discuss any merits of one or the other study and content, if anyone would provide the necessary link / documentation ;).

Please note, all my points above are purely hypothetical and just to show it's not as black-and-white as the initial post seemed to make it in terms of "research" ....

And yes, I just love interesting disputes :p

/edit: I forgot "failure rate": How do you define the success or failure rate of a relationship? Lots of possibilities there, lenght of time, leading to marriage, self-assessment by the interviewee ... - and all might differ from one's own perception of what is failure or success ;)

Originally posted by Raven Magdalene
...over the short period of time I have been on this site I have experienced 'sexual predators' if they found a lady looking sexy


Hello honey :D

Here is what little that I know: While the odds of a online relationship "working out" are not high, the pool of participants for me is UNLIMITED! YEA!!!!!:D

That fact alone must skew the odds of online vs. RL meeting "working out" Good point!!!

JUng

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knowing someone on the internet is NOT the same as knowing someone in person. Interacting on the internet is NOT anything close to interacting in person.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Nope, not the same but no guarantee that interacting in person won't include being duped.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVEN if the person is being authentic and honest...an internet relationship is a mere simulation of the real thing. It is nothing like seeing--touching---and relating to a real human being in the flesh.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



True, but it reaches depths of intimacy that are totally different from an "in the flesh only" relationship. Freedom to express feelings from behind a keyboard and monitor offer the opportunity to open up to a new level.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone conversations are not sufficient to build long lasting relations.....personal contact . Lots of personal contact...day in and day out. This is the "meat" of intimate interactions. Internet chats and conversations are a mere sliver of the real thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Internet chats and conversations are a PART of the real thing. I know a lot of divorced couples who spent hours of day in/day out personal contact and are divorced today. No guarantee again.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human beings have the infinite capacity of deception (benign and malignant) and this occurs even in real-time 3d relationships. The net only increases this exponentially.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes humans do have the capacity of deception. I do not believe that the net alone increases this eponentially. I think that if you date frequently IRL (let's say 1000's) THIS increases your chances of meeting a deceptive person exponentially...at least to the degree of internet meetings.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't tell you how many young and older females I have had sit in my class and tell stories similar to yours. They have all kinds of romantic fantasies that fueled their poor choices (" he was my soulmate" or "we had something spiritual..I know it!!". In all these cases the "metaphysical" model of relationships ended in pain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well there are countless romantics out there who don't find the happy ending. So what? There are also countless happy endings and women finding their soulmates too.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not suggesting a hard, cold approach to relationships and love. I am suggesting a very cool, rational approach to any initial connections with anyone, internet or otherwise. Until you have had extended real, in-person contact...there is simply no way to know what exists bewteen you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Good advice if you happen to be the cool, rational type. Some people are true romantics who rush in and get hurt but survive. Thank God for them too. They are often the ones who write our beautiful poetry and romantic novels and create masterpieces of art. Even with a real, in-person contact...you just may wake up one day and find that you do not even know that person. Have you heard (I know one personally) of the men who after many years of marriage wake up one day and inform their wives that they are gay and want a divorce? Or the man who has a seemingly happy marriage runs off and abandons his family for the hot chick he met at the office? Again...no guarantees.

Realism is nice but geez....there is a place for romanticism too. Let us romantics be. Mix us up with some realists and maybe you have a match made in heaven!!!


__________________

Folks,

I read all of your replies to my posts..and I must say...this is a very bright interesting group of women!

A few general replies to your replies:

"thousands of women". Yes I mean't dating..certainly not sex. I'm not a rock star or anything like that:). I started "dating" at 13...I recall my first date vividly. Without getting too deep into my personal psychology...dating in my teens and 20's was an important aspect of my own self-worth. I was "good" at it...dating that is...and I did lots and lots of it...even into my mid 40's. I've been "taken" for the last few years so that part of my life has passed.

I also didn't mean to bash online meeting. I think online is a fine way to meet people. I was just pointing out the limitations of such contact. Nothing can simulate or equal real-time 3d interactions. But hey...if online preps you for the actual meeting...nothing wrong with that. Just as long as the parties don't let their emotions "run wild" based on 3d info. This is where you set yourself up for a heap of pain!

Deception is, as I stated, a part of natural human relationships. We all "mask" certain aspects of our "selves". Nothing unhealthy about this...but the potential for massive/malignant deception in online relationships is quite large.

Much of my emotional reaction against "Hollywood-Romance Novel" conceptions of love is because of the absolute devastation that I have seen this produce in women. Over the past 18 years I have had female after female sit in my office with a tale of a male exploiting these myths to their own advantage. A typical scenario is the young woman in her 20's....meets a guy...he puts on a "full-court" romantic press....she lets him move in after a month or two...he drains her dry financially and emotionally...and she is left with the pieces. I've seen this at all socio-economic levels.

I counsel them to NOT be swept away emotionally...DO NOT use phrases like "soulmate" because these help create cognitive distortions that lead to very bad decisions on their part. Just because a new whirlwind relationship "feel" right doesn't make it actually right. Words like "love" and "lifetime mate" are powerful and should only be used with folks who we know...and who know us. Typically, after they have been through this a few times...they see the issues and develop better strategies for initiating healthy relationships with men.

But of course...I have female's who come back year after year...marriage after marriage after marriage...soulmate after soulmate after soulmate...who are condemmed to make the same errors over and over again. Ya gotta be patient in my profession:)

I was telling my soon to be wife (Oct 24) about our posts. I asked her if she ever thought of me as a "soulmate" or the one and only person for her. She thought for a few moments and said..

"no...I honestly never think about things like this...I only know that I am a much better person because you are in my life"

That's my gal!!!!

T

Have to say, this post made you sound more "human" than the first. I think, for me at least, the first made you sound like a education snob, and a bit condescending. Like I said, you sure sparked a lively conversation. In fact your first post turned me off in its tone to the degree that I didn't care what your point was. This time it was much easier to read. I used to play an online game. In fact that is where I met the man I love. BUT I quit playing because it made me so angry that people felt that they could do whatever they wanted there because no one knew their true identities. People misled ( I know this because in some cases I was privy to their schemes ) and people were hurt, some of them big time. Someone posted previously, sorry don't remember who, that people seem to forget that there are real people on the other end of the keyboard. I don't think they forget, I think they don't care. I think online relationships can be wonderful. I intend to make real friends on this site for example, people I may never meet.

.......SnowP getting her calculater out again, 47-13=
34 years of dating.........:D :D :D
34x365 days=....................
Somebody stop me.....:p

Congrats on your upcoming wedding JUng.

Ladies,

Thank you for the kind words! My Fiance' usually keeps me in line when I turn on the "lecture" mode...I tend to come off impersonal when I do this. I can see how my initial posts may have conveyed this impression.

I'm certainly all in favor of love and romance...ya jusy gotta steer clear of the counterfeit variety. My closest friends are single females aged 50-56 and I know the pain that sociopathic males have caused them.

Another interesting aside...concerning my "dating"past and relationships in general. Over the past few months I've been scanning and archiving a lifetime of photos. I put together a few DVD slide shows for various members of my family. Among the pictures are my various college/grad school Id's, collegegraduation, vacation pictures with ex's and so forth. I was showing some of this material to my fiance (who as I mentioned is a YW). I realized as she was looking at the pictures that her reaction was mild amusement and somewhat unemotional. I was all excited about her seeing me 25 years younger...the handsome devil that I was :) ..yet she was unimpressed.

When I inquired as to her reaction she said " the pictures are interesting because they are part of your life...but I don't see you in those old pictures...I see you now...and that is who I am in love with. The majority of those pictures were taken before I was born...and I only know the man who is with me here"

Wow...I thought that was a great answer. She correct. Excessive wallowing in the past can cause one to become a tad unbalanced.
I take pleasure in the warm memories of my 47 years of single life...but I'm excited about a new phase that is just ahead.

Anyhow...enough of my babble.

Tom

She does seem to have a healthy attitude. When I was young I was very insecure. Don't think I would have handled that situation with such finesse.

Originally posted by Raven Magdalene
Hello Darling...:)

Oh, she likes me :D

Well, Mr. AZ called tonight and gave me his flight number and his flight schedule for DC from AZ...he will be here on Labor Day weekend...but not without some hesitation...he called me a few times this week to say he was scared, unsure he should come, afraid he would make a mistake...I just let him talk...it seems to be that Tom is right, but I think it might be because men analyze things way too much ...more than women do...we talk things out, but the guys think things out and sometimes sabotage what they came after and what they want from us due to thinking about hypothetical situations......then he said he wanted me to fly to him as all the other potential women had done, and I said no way...and stuck, to my guns...and today he called with the times of his flight...I agree with Tom's fiance'...love, what is that...but that Mr. AZ is a great conversationalist, likes me a ton, is friendly loves his own family, health conscious,loves to travel, is active, tall, unselfish,is loyal , happy, is not jealous of my big family that is spread out all over the globe, and is smart and has all the qualities that I have been looking for in a guy, a boyfriend, a husband...he doesn't rock my world yet, cause I have yet to meet and talk to him in person, but he might...and I am going to give him a chance that it may happen...Hadley

virtual reality

it's not reality

and

always be wary of anyone on line

Grr...Mr. AZ arrived for a visit back over Labor Day weekend...had a nice tour of DC...but I couldn't handle the weight..he was 250lb and growing...H.

Question to the original poster.... were ANY of the 1000 females that you dated, students of yours? How about your finacee'? My sister who is a professor of Social Work at a state university here in Texas told me to be sure and ask you this. Be honest now.... ;)

Many are married and just want a fling with a woman away from their wife...I never have gone out with guys who say, "in for the weekend, let's go out." Once a guy's wife called me up saying found your number in my hubby's suit pocket...we live in DEL and just wanted you to know that the guy that called you was married...I thanked her and stated I had refused to go out with him after talking to him and he bragged about having 5 gfs in NJ, NY, Del, and Md. spread out...that was a turn off and I told her my little antenae went up...it was that phone call that just made me say, no to guys who say they are on a business trip or a convention...since I will never see them again, and since they might be married, when in doubt don't is a good motto...Hadley

I still can't figure out the guy who meets you, says he will call you and seems genuinely interested in seeing you again.. then you never hear from him. :confused:

I'd still rather know, then be left to wonder about it all. :(

HADLEY!!
I know the guy you are looking for, but he doesn't live here anymore. He moved to Heaven with his dad. LOL

I like you alot lately, but girl sometimes you make me want to scream. Carry on. I'm living vicariously through you anyway.
Sail

There is nothing wrong in hope, but lets look at one of the real issues here.

I can totally empathise with you, i myself have been messed around by a number of people online in the past year. People 'come outta nowhere' via a pm. Chit chat, phone chat... etc... but after a while (weeks/months), they just vapourise into nothing. OR.... they say 'hey, you know i just found someone nice, hope we can 'keep in touch'.

Essentially, in my view this experience seems to be the norm rather than the unusual.

A friend of mine the other day argued with me that NO real relationship can EVER really occur via a meeting online. I still disagree with her, but i do believe the odds are 5000-1 against anything successful happening.

The PLC people

I would like to propose there are now many people online who do this 'Pick them up... Lead them on.... and then Cut them off'.
These PLC net' people are really crazy nuts. I think women are just as capable of doing this as those annoying men are.

I really don't know how we can 'sift out' the PLC people. I'm pretty good at sussing people out (even online), but even i've been messsed around with a fair few times lately.
------

A personal rule of mine, is that if someone really likes you, they WILL make the effort to meet you within a few weeks or a couple of months - if its international. Anyone who cannot be bothered/inclined to meet with somone within this time, should be 'let go'.

So, do keep some faith in people, but until you've met someone in person, you simply cannot trust them - not one bit.

Originally posted by Adm. Calrissian
A friend of mine the other day argued with me that NO real relationship can EVER really occur via a meeting online. I still disagree with her, but i do believe the odds are 5000-1 against anything successful happening.

Of course your friend is wrong. Online is just a different venue, as people have pointed out in the past. There are jerks and losers all over, and how you meet them doesn't really matter. Either that, or my YM and I are beating the odds bigtime. There are several others on this site (and more I know from elsewhere) who could say the same.

I don't think a real relationship starting online is that rare, it's that people looking for them (just as in "real" life) most often don't know what they really want and don't know how to look for it, and don't know how to weed out the bad prospects. It's an information gap, really.

-G-

Originally posted by GoldieCat
Of course your friend is wrong. Online is just a different venue, as people have pointed out in the past. There are jerks and losers all over, and how you meet them doesn't really matter. Either that, or my YM and I are beating the odds bigtime. There are several others on this site (and more I know from elsewhere) who could say the same.

-G-

I can't emphasise enough about these PLC people. They are out there, and they are really messing -not only my head, but tens of thousands of others.

Just follow a few rules..

-text chat... get pics....many as you can....
-then insist on real time video-chat.- that way you can at least verify they are 'real' as such - even if they later turn out to be PLC people.
-Regular phone chat. If someone doesnt want to talk to you on the phone each week, then there is probably something to beware of.
-if you really like them, then meet up - arrange indep. accom (if long distance).
*i will note again, that if you've been chatting, phone etc, then if 'they' don't make the effort to arrange a meet up within 3-6 months, then they are almost CERTAINLY a PLC person.
------

In all my time online (4yrs), i've met a few people, a couple of which remain friends. I've never met someone via the net, and been surprised when i've met them - they've always been mostly as i've expected (nice, polite, and as they looked in their pics*).
Maybe i've just been lucky in that respect.

*I have known a few friends who've said they've discovered the woman they've talked to, is really a man !
Why don't people insist on regular phone chat before meeting someone!

Calrissian : Watching the moon skirt the treetops.

Originally posted by Adm. Calrissian
I can't emphasise enough about these PLC people. They are out there, and they are really messing -not only my head, but tens of thousands of others.
...
Well, I am sure they are - what I am not sure about if they are so prominent and inconscpicuous as not to pick up clues about them over a reasonable period of time ... Tbh, in my 4 our so yrs online, I have NEVER actually come across one of those when I was making friends ;). Maybe they frequent certain sites more than others, and yes, I have met quite a few of jerks online too, BUT they were kinda obvious jerks pretty much from the start .

So, I am not dismissing your experience, but I am saying it has not been my experience, which again just proves that it's not at all that black and white ;)

Still OF COURSE it is wise to exercise some caution in talking to strangers - irl as much as online; that's just common sense, I think, nothing more ;)

Originally posted by Adm. Calrissian
...
Just follow a few rules..

-text chat... get pics....many as you can....
-then insist on real time video-chat.- that way you can at least verify they are 'real' as such - even if they later turn out to be PLC people.
-Regular phone chat. If someone doesnt want to talk to you on the phone each week, then there is probably something to beware of.
-if you really like them, then meet up - arrange indep. accom (if long distance).
*i will note again, that if you've been chatting, phone etc, then if 'they' don't make the effort to arrange a meet up within 3-6 months, then they are almost CERTAINLY a PLC person.
...
As for your rules: Fine if they work for you ;)
Personally, I rather rely on my gut feeling about the person I am talking to and spending time with ;)

Although, when possible, of course I cross-check on their "details", but that's just common sense again.
As for all this web cam / phone stuff: As I posted elsewhere, I totally abhore talking on the phone, and I most certainly won't use web cams or talking devices like Roger Wilcox ;). Period ;) so, I would neither ask for it nor would I be prepared to do it ;) .

Just saying this to illustrate that people are different and their prefered means of communication (in my case f2f or textbased) is NOT necessarily linked to their character or intentions.

Bottomline for me is: be "aware" of potential pitfalls and keep your eyes open, trust your instincts, but no need for dogma ;)

Still, each to his own and eveyone has to figure out what works for him/her :D

Were did the original poster go? He never answered my question about his dates... were they students?

As far as his stats... there were not any bona-fide st