Greetings, and some advice needed :-)

First I want to say that, other than my personal ad posted elsewhere on this forum the other day, this is my first official post for the board. I want to say that I'm happy to meet everyone here and honored to participate on a board where age disparate relationships between men and women are considered as legitimate and potentially fullfilling as "age appropriate" relationships (i.e., with no more than a three or four year age gap between partners). I'm sure most everyone here is fully aware of how pervasive and socially acceptable ageist prejudices are in this society (was I the only one who saw that horrid story arc on "7th Heaven" where Mary was scorned by her allegedly liberal family for a relationship with a man in his 40's?).

Oh, and to quickly introduce myself...I'm a male who will turn 36 later this month, I'm a writer by vocation, and I am hoping to establish a romantic relationship with a caring and wonderful YW.

The advice I need is similar to a thread I saw in the OW for YM section by GypsyAngel, which is how to post a personal ad that makes it clear what I don't want, but at the same time, doesn't make me come off as overly brusque and rude. As such, I can use some advice from both the OM and YW here.

Just as many women complain about the fact that they meet too many men who feign full romantic interest when all they are really interested in is sex (i.e., a one-night stand or two), the problem I (and I would imagine other men) come across very frequently when I post a personal ad (or even when a first meet a woman via PM) is the exact inverse of the women's complaints...I get responses from YW who feign full romantic interest when what they are actually seeking (from the onset, I later discover) is a platonic friendship, i.e., "just friends." And this despite the fact that I make it very clear in my ad that I am looking for something romantic, and not seeking anything strictly platonic, or seeking to establish contact with a YW who is simply looking for someone to talk to, but never have any intention of going beyond the "just friends" stage.

Though it's true that some of these women undoubtably started out with a degree of genuine romantic interest and later lost it due to various factors in their lives, there can likewise be no doubt that many of them never had a sincere intention of building a romantic relationship from the beginning, because just as many women have complained that they discovered that men who claimed to be divorced had not actually completed the legal process, I discover that many YW who answer my ad's are unavailable romantically, and have either a regular romantic partner or a number of sexual partners that are fully satisfying to them...and they were lying to me about this all along.
When I confront them about this, I get close variations of the following lines (sound familiar, people?):

"Oh, I see how you are...you're only looking for a girlfriend! How ignorant!" Um...I made it clear exactly what I was looking for every single time in my ad, and I don't understand why so many women apparently think it's horrid for a guy to want more than just platonic friendship...and to expect women to be honest to him about what she really wants;

"Well, I always start out as 'friends first', it's the way I've always done things, and so have all of my friends...most of my friends had platonic relationships with their current boyfriends or husbands for months or years before becoming romantically involved. I think becoming friends first is very important, because that way we get to know each other better, and we can build a romantic relationship from such a strong emotional foundation later." And what almost always happens when we foolishly go along with this, guys? She becomes too comfortable with us as "just friends," she is never able to think of us in a more than platonic manner, and we end up as her love-smitten crony for months or even years, while all along she very likely had no intention of bringing it further than that from the get-go...but she managed to gain the platonic friend that she was looking for by continuously holding out false hope for a possible relationship that was never going to happen. Most men (and even many women) are very familiar with the "friends" trap.

Now, I do not expect to jump right into a relationship, or to even consider anything like marriage at this point in my life, but at the same time, I want to make it clear in my ad that I do not want YW who are seeking a platonic liason only to respond...and to please be courteous enough to steer clear of my ad if that is all they want, and not to try to lure me into romantic feelings for them so that they can "trap" me as a platonic friend indefinately.

I'm sorry people, but long personal experience and observations have shown me that contrary to what you often hear, "most" women seeking romantic relationships are not looking for "friendship first"...I've fallen for that line over and over and over and over again, and what did I end up with in the end? A friend that I didn't particularly care to have. There has to be an expression of romantic interest from the get-go.

If anyone here (both YW and OM) can offer me advice on how to word my ad in such a way that I can avoid my usual responses from this deceitful type of woman, I would be greatly appreciative. And for all of the women out there who routinely have to deal with a plethora of deceptive men who try to cover up their true agenda while pretending to have real feelings for you...know that you're not alone in dealing with such duplicitous individuals, for whatever comfort that holds.

Thus far, my ad only contains a single stern but not overly abrasive line requesting that women looking for platonic connections or pen pals only to avoid contacting me.

Thank you in advance for any help you may offer :-)

Hi, ItalianKnight.

I thought I'd welcome you to Ageless, you seem to be fitting in perfectly. Your advice is great and we need more people like you so make sure you don't go off wondering. :D

As a response to your post, well sometimes what can happen is someone may feel intrested in you from your ad but the more thye get to know you, they may feel that your not exactly what tht certain someone is looking for.

Don't get me wrong, I have many male friends and theyre all great but they all have different goals and different wants from life which stops me from persuing a relationship with any one of them. So rather then saying 'ItalianKnight your not my perfect fit so take care, ciao', they may want to keep hold of you as a friend because they do admire you as an individual but just not as a potential other half....Do I make sense?

Keep your options open, if someone sounds intrested and you feel a little bit intrested in them too, don't tie yourself down to that one person until your sure...keep chatting to other people and who knows what fate has in store for you. Good Luck! :)

Originally posted by ItalianKnight
I am hoping to establish a romantic relationship with a caring and wonderful YW.

The advice I need is

If anyone here (both YW and OM) can offer me advice on how to word my ad in such a way that I can avoid my usual responses Thank you in advance for any help you may offer :-)

Advice,

- Toss your dictionary in the trash!

- Change your Screen name from ItalianStudOhMeter to a fairly decent one!

- Don't tell them right from the start that "most women" are not looking for friendship first .

- If your going to condescend the dating stage so much, at least try not to make it sound like ending up as "Just Friends" to you seems worse than Contracting Leprosy.

Meena says:
Don't get me wrong, I have many male friends and theyre all great but they all have different goals and different wants from life which stops me from persuing a relationship with any one of them. So rather then saying 'ItalianKnight your not my perfect fit so take care, ciao', they may want to keep hold of you as a friend because they do admire you as an individual but just not as a potential other half....Do I make sense?

I know you said you only wanted YW's opinions, but HEY! I'm young compare to some..... so I'll chime in anyways, LOL :p

I'm assuming you were referring to my post on the other side about ads. Isn't it frustrating to "think" you have a foothold on what the other wants, only to find out they lied on half their profile?

I don't have the magic answer for you on this, as there are deceiptful people in this world of all ages and gender. I think what Meena says above could possibly be one thing to consider. Even when I was a younger woman, I'd meet guys (not from personals then) and immediately know they just didn't create a spark for me. BUT I'd like them as a person and not necessarily want to toss them in the trash.

With that said, I think (as I was told) you have to be careful to not sound bitter in your personal ad. Also you don't want to sound desperate/needy either. Hard balance eh?

Maybe try something along the lines of:

Hoping to meet someone that feels like I have what it takes to light their fire. If the feeling was mutual, I would of course expect a long, slow burn as we build a frienship base. I say "base" as I would hope that the connection we made was nothing short of finding my other other half that I could eventually grow old with. The connection I'm searching includes more than "just friends", as I have plenty of those already. I want someone that feels my heart and sees my potential as their mate, if that makes sense. This recipe isn't instant, but does start out with all the right ingredients. ;)

Yea I know, that sounded cheesy...... but find a way to say how you feel and what you are looking for without using negative words. Toss some humor, so you don't sound so serious. Lastly, ask leading questions on chat or the phone. Try to find out what their intentions are ahead of the meet. If after meeting, the attitude switches to "friends only", then I'd assume she isn't feeling the spark and you need to move on. Do they continue contacting you after the attitude shift? Lay low sometimes and see if they actually try to reconnect with you. If you are in full chase, you may not notice they are going the opposite direction and just don't want to hurt you.

I wish I had better advice, as I'm very frustrated after trying it myself. I wanted to meet someone that liked me, felt "something" unique -- but was willing to let it simmer a while without the pressure of an "instant relationship". I ended up way out in the left field in my pursuit. I had married guys and guys with live-ins just looking for a hop in the sack meeting me. My lesson was to ask more questions and not take it personal when I was duped. ........ NEXT!

Good luck in your pursuits IK ......

Gypsy

An afterthought, is to watch the body language of the potential. You can tell alot of things by that also.

Do they seem to keep a personal bubble around them?
or do they tend to sit close, lean in to speak to you?

Do they maintain eye contact with you while speaking?
or does eye contact seem to make them squirm?

Are they smiling for no reason?
or they only smiling when you crack a joke?

Do they find reasons to touch you somehow? Like a knee brush at the table, a hand on the shoulder or forearm, standing very close?
or once again, is that personal bubble in place?

Do they intentionally sit across the table from you?
or plop down closer?

When you say goodnight, do they offer a hug and their cheek?
or do they embrace you for more than a split second like it means something?

When you come online with the chat messenger, do they initiate conversation?
or you always the one saying "hi" first?


Just some thoughts...... if you pay attention, you'll see the clue to the "friends only" speech coming before the end of the first date alot of times (not always). I'm only speaking from how I might act if I found a strong attraction to someone.

Ok, off to work...... hehe

Hi Italian Knight and welcome!
Like our own Gypsyheart here, I too am an OW(your age!) but thought I would chime in too. No need to just "keep to your own side" here!

I do think that getting the point across that you are interested in a romantic relationship and dont want to waste your time with women looking for platonic friendship is important.
However I think you do come across as a little bit harsh and may drive away potential dates because of it.

Maybe they'd be thinking, "Oh wow, I'd love to accept a dinner invite from Italian Knight, but what if after the date I dont feel there is a spark? I'll seem like a user or a liar and it might be hard to cut off contact"
I could be way off base here but if Im reading a personals ad I do like one with a more laid back approach to things.
More of a lets go out and see what happens..too many expectations scare me.
I do think an honest What are you looking for? discussion is always in order when initiating contact. Ive met men through personals and thats always on the topic list during our first talk. Hey they may have good intentions that dont work out or they may be liars but at least I am upfront and honest. Thats about all you can do!

Lay your cards on the table saying that your goal is to find a significant other--a romantic, loving and sexual relationship. When you meet a woman who states that is her goal too, get to know eachother. It may not always work out (and it very well may result in both of you or either of you saying, "I like you but not more than a friend").
You need to go into it with your goals clear but there is, unfortunately, no guarantee of outcome.
Good luck to you!!
Feel free to hop on over to the other side of the boards at anytime.

I'm 43 and my boyfriend is 27, we met here at Ageless. I'm older than he is, but I'm a young woman, in my own humble (or maybe pretentious) opinion. :)

I never put any ad anywhere, but if I did, I would expect my search to take lots of time, unless I was very lucky.

As in real life, it's not easy to find your other half. It's easy to find people and date and go out, especially for those of us who are not shy and have the occasions to meet people, but to find the good one, takes time.

I think one mistake people do when they put up an ad is to want instantaneous good responses and quick results. It's not like this, it's not like this unless you really want anything, unless you are really desperate.

Some people will like you in the beginning, but then as time passes and they get to know you better, they find out you are not what they wanted. Good for you that they are honest! Sometimes this will happen on your side, too.

A good match takes time, it may take years for some, it takes mistakes for others, some will never find it. The important thing is to be open minded, patient, keep hope and know that love can come from everywhere. But it takes time.

I think first and foremost I shall take it upon myself to ask you the all-important 6 million dollar question, which everyone else has so politely ignored:

Why are you looking for only YOUNGER women?

Note: You will not receive points for the length of your answer, only the content. I know you hate ageism and a whole bunch of other perceived slights against older men and younger women, but tell us, how do you differentiate yourself from the people who are well-deserving of the stereotypes? Why younger, why only younger?

Note: Points will definitely be deducted for any mention of vivaciousness, energy, youthful outlook, keeping you young, etc. Anyone can do that. I want the real reason you're LOOKING for a type of relationship that has pitfalls and hardships that non-age-gaps don't. Because most of the people here were NOT looking for it, with good reason.

Well, you beat me to it, datura. I can think of only one fairly legitimate reason for looking mostly at younger woman, and that's the desire to have kids. Nothing ItalianKnight said suggests that that is his motivation.

On top of that, he apparently doesn't want to waste his time "just" being friends. I don't get it. Anyone worth having as a "girlfriend" is worth having as "just" a friend, in my book. And I believe that establishing a friendship is the best possible way for evaluating whether a more intimate relationship is desirable.

ItalianKnight, I've got to admit, you've really got me puzzled...

Originally posted by datura81
I think first and foremost I shall take it upon myself to ask you the all-important 6 million dollar question, which everyone else has so politely ignored:

Why are you looking for only YOUNGER women?

Note: Points will definitely be deducted for any mention of vivaciousness, energy, youthful outlook, keeping you young, etc. Anyone can do that.

LOOKS in the mirror .... hmmmmm

- vivaciousness (check)
- energy and youthful outlook (check)
- keeping you young (uhh, no one can do that for you)

LOL, I couldn't help myself Datura....... I bet it's because YOUR BOOBIES ARE PERKIER THAN MINE!! :p

...... yea THAT'S IT! :eek:

Ya know, on a side note.... I am browsing personal ads lately and soooo many guys his age won't even consider a healthy 40yr old woman. Their listed preferences are waaay younger. Maybe they want more kids, but it seems they limit themselves too much.

ok ..... I'll go back to my corner now.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by thatgirl
What's wrong with simply wanting someone younger because it's a personal preference when it comes to appearance?

It makes sense if you're looking for a short-lived fling.

Originally posted by thatgirl
I have always preferred younger men. My husband is ten years younger than me and we've been married for 11 years now. I met him when I was 34.

Just because someone prefers dating younger, it does not mean that it's just a fling. I'm proof of that.

A youthful appearance isn't going to last forever, you know. If one is looking for a long-term relationship, then one had better be prepared for the appearance to change...

So if that's the basis for a preference to date younger, then in my opinion it's a poor and short-sighted one. But it's not the only possible reason for such a preference.

I suppose that if I were dating, I would prefer dating younger women - not because they are younger, but because the outlook and activities I prefer are more characteristic of those who are younger. Most of the women I know who are my age are married with children, and even those who are not tend to be a bit more...er...domesticated than I am. (By that I don't mean I'm looking for a wild partier; I've never been one for that sort of thing myself. But I do have an inquisitive attitude and a thirst for new experiences.) Add in the fact that I look about a decade younger than my true age, and the group that I hang out with has a real hard time remembering how old I am. There are quite a few women in this group who I find quite attractive, and whom I wouldn't hesitate to date if I weren't so hung up on this one woman...

But that said, if I did happen to meet a woman my own age who attracted my interest, the only thing that would cause me to hesitate is the children issue. And I'd feel a lot more comfortable with, say, an eight-year difference than the fifteen-year difference I've been contemplating.

Originally posted by thatgirl
Truth be told though, as lousy as it sounds...let's say you meet a super, super attractive woman who has maybe 90% of the other qualities you're looking for in a partner and then you meet a not so attractive woman who has 100% of the qualities you find attractive--who would you pick?

Easy. The one who has 100% of the qualities but is not so physically attractive. I have a very good idea about the qualities I am looking for in a life partner, and I would rather stay single than settle for anything less than 100% - no matter how beautiful a prospect is. Looks are not on my list of qualities to consider(although taking care of herself is on the list, and that generally does a lot for appearance).

My point is, is that there seems to be *such* a taboo about admitting looks are important.

Point taken. And if I am completely honest, I don't really know how much of a factor looks are for me. I've only been seriously interested in two women in my entire life, and both have been 10 out of 10 in the looks department. I'd like to think that is somewhat coincidental, but...how can I be sure?

Not that I wanted to jump in this little debate/hijacking, but just wanted to say this statement made me wonder.

Alter Ego says:
But that said, if I did happen to meet a woman my own age who attracted my interest, the only thing that would cause me to hesitate is the children issue.

I wonder if this "children issue" is why men my own age are so quick to pursue younger women (as opposed to someone like myself w/2 young children)? Interesting, I've noticed alot of guys in this category (seeking younger women) also note on their personal profiles (seeking women without kids). Sometimes they even go as far as saying "never married". I guess they get a cleaner start that way, less baggage and all.

*goes back to the side pondering*

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ItalianKnight
I am hoping to establish a romantic relationship with a caring and wonderful YW.

The advice I need is

If anyone here (both YW and OM) can offer me advice on how to word my ad in such a way that I can avoid my usual responses Thank you in advance for any help you may offer :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, Son of Samantha,


Advice,

- Toss your dictionary in the trash!

I admit, SoS, that as a writer, I do intend to be overly verbose at times, but this is done more out of habit than as an attempt to
"show off," and I don't mean to come off as pedantic. Truth to tell, I prefer women who are highly intellectual and who are also likely to be writers, or at least heavily into the liberal arts. I do not agree that all women are "intimidated" or "turned off" by a guy who uses big words, etc. Some are, some are not, and my dream YW is someone who is at least intelligent as I am, and hopefully smarter (I've met many, many women much smarter than me, and these tend to be the women I'm most attracted to).

- Change your Screen name from ItalianStudOhMeter to a fairly decent one!

I think you may have a misconception regarding my choice of sn, SoS. It was not intended to imply that I was a "stud," or anything sexual whatsoever, as I am confidant with myself as a person but at the same time, I certainly don't consider myself to be a stud who is just radiating sexual energy, i.e., a "babe magnet." Rather, as a knight is a warrior, it was intended to imply perseverence in all endeavors. I'm sorry if my choice of sn offended you in some manner.

- Don't tell them right from the start that "most women" are not looking for friendship first .

All of my personal experience has shown that the vast majority of people in general who are attracted to someone are interested as more than "just friends" from the get-go. Too many women and men alike have to deal with time-wasters who have an alternate agenda to your own but who feign otherwise, and I think many of us have a goal to try our best to avoid the deceitfuls of both genders.

- If your going to condescend the dating stage so much,

I don't consider the "just friends" thing to be part of the bona fide "dating stage," SoS, and that is precisely the point of this post of mine. I consider "just friends" to be an entirely seperate species than "dating" period, rather than a distinct phase of dating. It's not my intention to condescend any part of the legitimate dating stage, but rather to "condescend," if you will, someone who operates on deceitful parameters.

at least try not to make it sound like ending up as "Just Friends" to you seems worse than Contracting Leprosy.

Actually, and this is just from a personal standpoint, mind you, but I do not feel comfortable being "just friends" with someone whom I share a strong romantic attraction to...it's awkward, emotionally disconcerting, and even downright hurtful, even if this is far from the intention of the woman in question. If the two of us have a mutual desire for "just friendship," then a very mutually rewarding experience can come of this. But when the benefits of a relationship or friendship are entirely one-sided, then it's an entirely different story. Some people have little difficulty being "just friends" with people whom they have a strong romantic attraction to, and I say more power to them. Others, like myself, cannot simply turn their feelings on and off at will in that manner. Further, there are some deceitfuls out there who will take advantage of a person who care about them romantically, but to whom they do not share similar feelings. I've been there too often before, and I hope to avoid it in the future.

Italian Knight

Hi, Datura

I think first and foremost I shall take it upon myself to ask you the all-important 6 million dollar question, which everyone else has so politely ignored:

Why are you looking for only YOUNGER women?

I have no problem answering this question, Datura...all anyone had to do was ask :-)

Note: You will not receive points for the length of your answer, only the content.

As per your request, I will endeavor to make this response as succinct as possible, but you have many concerns to be addressed, and I want to get to them all.

I know you hate ageism

As an OM who has a preference for YW, I think this is a logical dislike, and I certainly wish I lived in a world where many more people had a distaste for ageism.

and a whole bunch of other perceived slights against older men and younger women,

"Perceived" slights, Datura? I guess you've never read an issue of Cosmopolitan or any other women's magazine featuring an article dealing with OM/YW relationships, the constant rude remarks someone who has this preference receives, or TV shows featuring story arcs on this subject (like the recent one appearing on "7th Heaven" that I mentioned...some shows have had refreshingly open minded takes on this subject, but the majority have the consensus that such relationships are, at best, "misguided").

It seems as if you're irritated with men who have this preference, but I think we should all keep in mind that not only do many OM prefer OW, but there are likewise many YM who absolutely adore and prefer OW, as this very site can attest :-) Everybody has different preferences, and nobody should feel the need to feel guilty for them, or to be pressured into feeling a moral failing on their part as a result. I happen to think that OW are as cool as anyone else...I simply do not have a preference for them as romantic partners, a sentiment not shared by many, many other men of all ages, just as I'm well aware that many YW consider it "gross" to be romantically involved with an OM. This disappoints me when I hear it, of course, but I do respect their preference for someone in their own age group.

but tell us, how do you differentiate yourself from the people who are well-deserving of the stereotypes?

I do not agree that "most" OM (as the stereotype goes) who prefer YW do so because they are looking for someone to "control." Younger people are often willfull and eager to display their independence, and are hardly "easy emotional prey" for guys who have bad intentions. I prefer YW because I enjoy being with them on many levels, not because I am seeking someone to "control." I think the ease with which someone can be "controlled" by another is very individual, and there are equal numbers of weak-minded and strong-minded people in all age groups, and this is predicated upon a large number of factors that are different for many individuals. As such, I've known many OW who were "door mats" to their bf's, and many other OW who were strong-willed and didn't take crap from anyone...the same with YW.

Why younger, why only younger?

I have went out with OW, also. Moreover, I have many as valued friends. I simply get along with YW much better on a romantic and sexual level than OW, but this is just me as an individual. No OW should feel insulted or slighted by this, because I'm just one man, and again, many men of various age groups feel exactly the opposite. But let me get to your below concerns.

Note: Points will definitely be deducted for any mention of vivaciousness, energy, youthful outlook, keeping you young, etc. Anyone can do that.

Some of what you say above, despite you're opinion that they adhere to a typical stereotype, does hold water...particularly youthful outlook, which is more common to younger people, but, as you also suggest, certainly not limited to them. But this is far from the only factor regarding my preference. As for "keeping me young," despite the fact that I'm about to turn 36, I do not feel "older" on the inside, and this is one of the reasons my social interests, hobbies, and emotional attitude is more in line with YW than the average OW. Also, this depends upon how one may define "youthful outlook." That can be fairly subjective.

I want the real reason you're LOOKING for a type of relationship that has pitfalls and hardships that non-age-gaps don't. Because most of the people here were NOT looking for it, with good reason.

To begin with, Datura, I seek out relationships that I think I will be most happy and fulfilled in at all levels, not relationships that will have less social complications or hardships.

The reason for my preference, and that of many others, is manifold.

I do have a physical preference for the appearance of YW, and I don't feel I should be ashamed to admit this. Yes, it will fade in time, but initial physical attraction, I believe, is an important component to a romantic relationship (as opposed to "just a friendship"). Yes, her youthful appearance will fade as the years go by, but when you have many years of love forged between you and another person over the course of many years, the love and attraction can remain when the physical appearance begins to fade.
And for the record, I do not think I am "hung up" on looks. Granted, I do prefer the youthful look to the mature look, but I have rarely been very attracted to "drop dead gorgeous" women of any age, or to super-models. I tend to prefer YW who have a "plain jane," "just cute," or even outright "geeky" look. I do prefer the youthful appearance to the mature one, but I do not tend to go for beautiful YW. I think physical attraction in a romantic relationship is an important one, the many moral qualms notwithstanding.

I have an emotional preference for YW. I enjoy how many of them see life as a great big adventure, still love to do things spontaneous such as a sudden decision to go to the beach, an amusement park, etc. OW often take life more seriously on all levels. I'm not saying in terms of being more responsible, but rather in terms of a specific world view that many older people, male or female, tend to have in place of younger people. I share the adventurous youthful outlook, and this makes me a good match for many YW. This is NOT to say that the outlook of older people is "wrong"...just that it's different from what I prefer or hold myself. Many YM who have the opposite view or outlook on life in general will prefer OW for emotional reasons.

In terms of social interests, I've found that, in general, YW have similar such interests to myself, whereas OW tend to be more "laid back" and to have largely evolved away from such interests, now preferring to do other things instead. And there is nothing wrong with that. But I prefer, naturally, to date women who have similar social interests, rather than those who have contrary interests.

The question of children, brought up by another poster in this thread. Right now, I am ambivalent about having children, and an OW is not only more likely to have children already, but if she doesn't and wants them, she will, understandably, have to hook up with a man who likewise wants to have kids relatively quickly. YW who want children do not have to make this decision for many years, and can also more afford to be ambivalent about it at this point in their lives. I do not think it would be fair on either end for me to start up a relationship with an OW who wants to have kids soon, or who is seeking a man (again, understandably) who is already cool with adjusting to a woman who has kids.

In short, as an individual, YW are more fulfilling to me in a romantic relationship onall levels. People who harbor a different POV will have difficulty understanding this, and many of those people will find my preference irritating and even perhaps immoral for these reasons.

Also, keep in mind that this site is for people who are seeking, or are already in, age disparate relationships. I know that you may think that the slights against OM who prefer YW are just "perceived" on my end, but as you can see from your own post, outside of this site (as well as within the site, it seems) I am often "interrogated" in precisely this fashion, the purity of my motives are questioned, and I am made to feel guilty or morally barren for preferring YW to OW. This is exactly what I meant. You will also see that there are many OW who prefer YM who are more sympathetic to me for precisely that reason...they have a preference for romantic partners outside of their immediate age group, so their POV is more in line with my own.

Sorry that I went a bit long, but I wanted to address all of your concerns. I may come off as a jerk by your standards, Dakura, but I think it's much better and more fair for all concerned to be honest about whom you are attracted to, rather than lying or trying to "change" yourself to make society happy at the expense of yourself.

Italian Knight

Well, you beat me to it, datura. I can think of only one fairly legitimate reason for looking mostly at younger woman, and that's the desire to have kids. Nothing ItalianKnight said suggests that that is his motivation.

In contrast, Altered, I think there are many more reasons than just that, as I explained in detail to Datura. Moreover, I do not believe that choosing a romantic partner, or which general group of people we are most attracted to, is an eminently "logical" decision. Using logic makes it almost akin to a business decision. I do not believe that we as human beings generally make conscious decisions about whom we are attracted to. I've always preferred YW, and I've surmised all of the reasons, trying to be as "logical" as possible. Love and romance, and sexual desire to a large degree, are highly emotional things, that resonate with us on many levels, and are not part of "logical" reasoning. People tend to think, for whatever reason, that it's "just plain logical" for OM to prefer OW, and vice versa. Others think it's "illogical" for people to prefer members of the same gender. I don't think "logic" as anything to do with this, and I think the only fact we have at hand is that the realm of romantic love and attractions do not follow a "logical" paradigm, or operate on a "one size fits everyone in this or that group" basis.
With that said, I think the most logical choice for me to make in the romantic department is to seek a relationship with someone from the group I'm most likely to be attracted to. I don't think sacrificing your own happiness to ingratiate society, or for me (as an individual) to waste the time of OW whom I'm not likely to be romantically interested in is a logical, or ethical, thing to do. Hence, my choices...which are both logical and illogical at the same time, depending upon one's POV.

On top of that, he apparently doesn't want to waste his time "just" being friends. I don't get it.

You may have misunderstood me. I don't think having friends, per se, are a waste. However, (and this may not apply to you as an individual) some people feel very emotionally uncomfortable and disconcerted in trying to force themselves to be "just friends" with someone whom they have a strong romantic attraction to. Moreover, there are many who practice deceit and pretend to have a more than platonic interest when in actuality they do not, in order to acquire that friendship. In either case, building up large amounts of "friendships" on the latter two bases are very disappointing and embittering. I prefer to be friends with people whom I have "only" a platonic interest in.

Anyone worth having as a "girlfriend" is worth having as "just" a friend, in my book.

Not necessarily, IMO. Some people have the ability to turn their feelings "on and off" at the drop of a hat; others do not. For those who do not, forcing yourself to act platonic with someone whom you have a strong romantic attraction to can be very hurtful, and though it may work out well for the other person, the party to whom the love is unrequited is often very unhappy. If you are built differently from me (and others like me) emotionally, however, I can see where you may fail to see this point.

And I believe that establishing a friendship is the best possible way for evaluating whether a more intimate relationship is desirable.

That sounds nice on paper, but in actuality, from all of my personal experience (and from that of many others whom I've spoken to) if you start a friendship, and "only" a platonic friendship, 9 times out of 10 that's where it stays. I do not buy the statement that starting out as "friends first" leads to more than that in time. I believe romantic interest has to be implicit from the start, most of the time, in order for the relationship to head towards romantic love rather than platonic friendship. I do not think it is wise to continuously adhere to a philosophy that has failed me, and many others whom I've observed, over and over and over again, ad infinitum.

ItalianKnight, I've got to admit, you've really got me puzzled...

As I've noted above, I think there was nothing puzzling about my statement at all, in lieu of the fact that I'm looking for romance, and not more platonic friendships :-)

Italian Knight

To everyone who gave me replies, both friendly and otherwise, thank you for taking the time to do so :-) I specifically replied to the posts of some of my detractors in this thread, so as to address their concerns.

But I wanted to thank Meena, Gypsyheart, Ravenglow, Marialux, and Thatgirl (along with others I may have forgotten) for all of your support and good advice, it will all be heeded :-)

Just a few notes to each:

Meena, thank you for your warm welcome, and I enjoy helping people out whenever I can :-) As with anyone posting on any forum, I understand that not everyone here is going to like or understand me, but I will nevertheless endeavor to do the best I can around here :-) You have to deal with the people whom you rub the wrong way as well as those whom you 'click' with in any given community, and I've long been aware of that.

Gypsyheart, I wanted to reply to this statement of yours:

Don't get me wrong, I have many male friends and theyre all great but they all have different goals and different wants from life which stops me from persuing a relationship with any one of them. So rather then saying 'ItalianKnight your not my perfect fit so take care, ciao', they may want to keep hold of you as a friend because they do admire you as an individual but just not as a potential other half....Do I make sense?

You make total sense, as this is very often exactly what
occurs :-) I would say that about 60% of the time, if no special 'spark' is initiated, the woman in question decides that she still wants to be friends...that isn't a problem in and of itself, until she begins to lie about having or retaining romantic interest, and allows me (and even encourages me) to increasingly build up my hopes and expectations, and to lie about many things related to this incessantly, and often do not seem to feel any reticence about doing this. In fact, many of these women, like some people here, do not seem to respect the fact that just as some people are attached and are not looking for a romantic or sexual relationship, others are not looking for more platonic friendships on a dating service, and do not want to be friends with people whom they have romantic feelings for. I think what someone wants, and what they don't want, should be respected, be it romantic or platonic, and no one should be made to feel guilty about what they want or don't want. This is a personal matter that should be respected rather than judged, IMO.

Keep your options open, if someone sounds intrested and you feel a little bit intrested in them too, don't tie yourself down to that one person until your sure...keep chatting to other people and who knows what fate has in store for you. Good Luck!

Very good advice, which I shall certainly heed :-)

And on another thing, Gypsyheart...I greatly appreciate you're jumping over to this end of the forum to offer support and advice. It was one of your posts that first inspired me to try and base an ad on avoiding the pitfalls that I have so often encountered with people who are dishonest about what they want, including certain women who have outright lied on their ad when they said they weren't attached, and were looking for more than someone to talk to.

I know you may be a bit 'put off' with OM who prefer YW from a moral standpoint, but rest assured that you're a beautiful woman who is well aware that many YM have the hot's for OW on all levels, and I'm sure you do indeed have a youthful vigor, as it's quite evident :-) I just wanted to say that I meant no offence, and I am hoping that more OW (even younger "OW" like yourself) will not take offence at people who have a preference for different groups. But I want you to know that I do understand how disempowering this can feel, as I have met many, many YW who talk about how "disgusting" they think it is for an OM to be attracted to a YW romantically. But I do think that you, and many others, would appreciate honesty from a person :-)

Thatgirl, thank you very much for standing up for me, and others, for having different preferences than the standard that society tries to set. It's refreshing to meet an OW who shares my general POV, and doesn't automatically think a preference outside of your age group, including the physical preference, automatically indicates a moral failing on your part.

And thanks again to everyone else, even my detractors...I listen to everyone, even if I may not disagree.

Italian Knight