Desperately Needing Advice

Hey Everybody, I am so glad I found this sight a few months ago. It really makes me feel like I am not alone. I have read many of your stories and can relate to some degree to each of the conflicts and proposed resolutions......which brings me to my dilemma. When do you know when it just isn't going to work??? I am 30 yrs old and seeing a 65 yrs old man. I love him more than I thought I ever could. We have been seeing each other for almost two years and I would love to be with him on a permanent basis, but he obviously does not feel the same way. He gives me all the reasons why we CAN NOT be together, like his daughter and grandchildren live with him and he just can't leave them, he is not ready to raise small children again ( I have 3, ages 14,12 & 8), or he doesn't want to be tied down and make another woman miserable (he is divorced after 30 something years of marriage). When I ask him about the potential for the future, he says "we are just two people enjoying what we have, and we have is what we are", which I have asked several times, "just what is it?". I am so confused. I love him and I know you don't give up on people you love, but how long do I have to subject myself to what I feel is rejection? I have never been able to meet his adult children, I am not allowed at his home if his daughter or her children are there, in fact I have only been there twice, nor am I allowed to call his house if his daughter is there. His son and daughter in law just had a baby on Friday and he asked me to go for the road trip obviously because on Saturday he got ready and went to the hospital and left me sitting in the hotel room waiting for hours for his return. I have put up with so much to be in this relationship, but I do not know how much more I have to give. I am sorry this is so long, but I have got to know that someone out there understands me. Any advice on this matter is greatly appreciated.

I feel your pain , it's rough. I gave and gave and gave in my relationship too, sometimes they just don't 'see' the love you have for them. I'm not sure I really have any advice for you, but what I can say is that something is not right. I'd hate to say this, but this is just what I am thinking - again, you are the only person who truly knows your situation. I'm going off the little that I've read.

I find it sad that you can't even meet his children as 'a friend'. And you only mentioned this, but you two meet at a hotel room? This isn't something I would feel comfortable with. It would make me feel cheap and unloved, used even. I'm sorry that this is happening to you. If it were me in your shoes, I would seriously evaluate what I have with this man. Is this love? Are there things that point to a relationship? Do you only meet when it's convenient for him? Are you jaded over the situation? It's hard to step back a look at things from an unbiased point of view, but it's something that must be done.

To me I think he's using you for companionship. He dosen't seem to want a relationship from you. You're young - you have time on your side. He, on the other hand doesn't really seem to be too crazy about another serious relationship. Again, this is all speculation from your post. Fill us in a bit more :)

All the best
~Em

EMCAD80, thank you for responding. To a degree you are right. But, let me clarify, we don't meet at hotel rooms anymore, ha, like that sounds better. In the beginning we did just because of the situation and it was all new, you know how that is, I really didn't want him in my personal life until I got to know him. We do things together all the time, we travel, in fact we took my kids to Florida last month on vacation, we go to lunch together everyday, and we are together every evening. He stays at my house on a regular basis, so we have a relationship. This past weekend we stayed in a hotel because we traveled 4 hours to see his new grandson, that was why we were in a hotel room. I know he loves me, in fact everyone comments on the change he has made in his lifestyle. People are so amazed at how he has changed, even his best friend told me the other day that he doesn't know what I have done to his friend or what I have on him. He really is a great guy, that is what makes it so hard to think about giving up on him.

You are right about the part about not even getting to meet his children as "his friend". That is what I have said all along. Just introduce me as a friend and let them make their own decision about me, if they do not like me, then I will gladly bow out of the situation, or be content with what we have now.

He says that he hates to promise me that we will be together one day because he doesn't know how much longer he is even going to be around and that I am young. He says that right now I am in love with him because he is active and can go and do, but how will I feel when the day comes when he will be a patient and unable to do those things. He says that I will come to resent him and he can't stand the thought of me being young and having to spend my life taking care of him. I say I love him and that doesn't make a difference, what is the difference between him being down and me taking care of him and having a newborn baby, or a sick family member. You do what you have to do for the people you love. So, EMCAD80, do you think that he just doesn't want me and a relationship, or do you think that is being sincere about worrying about the ages?

Originally posted by jerrysgirl
He says that he hates to promise me that we will be together one day because he doesn't know how much longer he is even going to be around and that I am young. He says that right now I am in love with him because he is active and can go and do, but how will I feel when the day comes when he will be a patient and unable to do those things. He says that I will come to resent him and he can't stand the thought of me being young and having to spend my life taking care of him. I say I love him and that doesn't make a difference, what is the difference between him being down and me taking care of him and having a newborn baby, or a sick family member. You do what you have to do for the people you love. So, EMCAD80, do you think that he just doesn't want me and a relationship, or do you think that is being sincere about worrying about the ages?

LOL, that sounds so much like my ex, and we were only 17 years apart. He constantly would shove things in my face:

"See my gray hair"
"I have glasses now, I'm getting old"

Which is just silly because I agree with you, you do what you must for the ones you loved. He asked me once "What would you do if I got sick?" And I told him that I would be by his side feeding him, bathing him, and taking care of him any way needed. He wouldn't have it. The age eventually got to him deep. It's hard to say if someone is sincere. They can only tell you that. As much as I would love to think that D was sincere with me, I sometimes wonder if he was being selfish. He used to be a real ladies man before I came into the picture, and I've always wondered if he missed that lifestyle and couldn't handle all the love I had to offer. Or maybe, just maybe, he really did love me and he really did let me go because of these concerns.

The most common thing that men are concerned about (that I know of) are younger women leaving them for someone younger a long the line. I know that ate up D a lot. He said by the time I was 40, he "knew" that I was going to leave him for someone my own age. They place these scenrios in their heads and it scares them to be alone. They tend to believe their worst fears...and they don't give it a chance.

Gosh, I wish I had some solid advice to give you, but do know that I feel for you. I know where you are coming from. Have you ever sat down and talked to him? Maybe you should, you both can express your fears and concerns...but also express the joys and the happiness this relationship could bring. I wish you all the best. This hurts, I know it does, so I hope this gets resolved as quickly and painlessly as possible :)

~Em

Hi Jerrysgirl,

I'm an OW aged, 51 from the other side, and Jerry has given you every reason why he doesn't want a permanent relationship with you as you ennumerate in your 2 posts.

Are they valid? Some of them may be and some of them may not be, but he is keeping you completely separate from his family so he's certainly not giving you mixed signals on his idea of permanence.

He's from a generation before me. And even though love has no boundaries, mind sets do, and he has that older generation mind set about this relationship. My mom is from his generation and they have a saying which is, "Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free." If you haven't heard it before, it means that you are meeting the HIS needs fully in the relationship so he really doesn't have to make that commitment to you because you don't demand that your needs are met.

You aren't content with the status of this relationship, you want it to progress. He is very content. He's not going to change his viewpoint or behavior whatsoever under the current circumstances.

So the question becomes what do you wish to do about it? If you don't change the rules of the game here, so to speak, you will continue on as you have indefinitely, because that is ALL that is ever going to happen under the present operating system.

That's a good point Bubbleee...I felt myself agreeing with you as I read your post.

All his needs are being met, emotionally and physically, and he's comfortable. Why take the risk of alienating his kids and grandkids by marrying a woman, any woman? Especially when you are close enough to him to meet his needs. He doesn't want more committment or anything. He's content and he doesn't want to rock the boat. You've heard his excuse. His age, his kids, his fear of hurting another woman. They're his excuses.

So here is what you must decide. Are you content in this relationship? Because if you're not, then you need to make it so that he isn't content with the relationship for any chance of committment. But unfortunately, all you're likely to have him as is a non committed friend.

Bubbleee, you are correct. I have used that expression so many times in the course of this relationship. I have explained to him that he doesn't have to change, because I repeatedly put up with the excuse me, but the "crap" he dishes out. I have told him before that we will just stop seeing each other that this is a dead end relationship. I even left work, went to my house, gathered his clothes and other stuff he had left at my house, and was even giving back the cell phone he gave me. Then he is wait can't we talk about this, will you let me come over this evening and we will talk. Well at 11:00 in the morning I am mad at him and ready to be through with him, but by 7:00 when he is at my house it is another story. It is like I have told my sister, I get fed up with him, but then he comes over and wraps up his BS in a pretty little box and puts a pretty little bow on it and I am willing to do it all again.

And, as far as his children go, I don't really understand what the big deal is, we are both from small towns, and we are both extremely involved in the community, so we make appearances together on a regular basis to all sorts of functions. So his children know "about me", they have never formally met me. In fact when he was not feeling well one time, I took it upon myself to call his house and told his daughter that he was not feeling well and that he was planning to cut grass that day in the extreme heat, and that I wanted to let her know so she would be aware and to watch him. The only thing she could say is "oh my god, you are the girlfriend". I never responded I just said that I wanted to let her know because I do care about him and worry about him. She never mentioned my call to him, nor have I.

I have told him on several occasions as well that I can not put anything else into this relationship, I have done all that I can do. And he says he knows that. I take care of everything for him, and I know he appreciates it. And both of you are right that I need to evaluate this situation and figure out what I need to do, but that is so hard to do. I am just not a strong enough person to put down the habit, and sometimes I am scared that is what this is, but I do love him, you do not spend that much time with someone and say you don't love them. Someone told me that I should give him an ultimatum, do you agree?

Phil, you are right. I have made all the sacrifices and continue to make them and he has had to put forth no effort persay. My family had a hard time with our relationship when it all came out, so needless to say I don't have much to do with my parents, and it wasn't totally over this, but this spawned the factors leading up to our disagreement. He and I worked together at a bank, and when it came out that we were seeing each other, that was taboo, so since he had more seniority, guess who got to go. I have changed my complete lifestyle because I was that hell bent bound and determined to make this work. Now, talk about a slap in the face for him to just act like he can't be put out, that he doesn't want to upset his kids. My God, his kids are adults with their own families. I have told him so many times that if they are that way, they are really shallow. My dad has done alot of things that I have not been proud of or would have approved of, but one thing I have always told him is that no matter what, he will always be my daddy and I love him. If he brought a younger woman home and said he loved her, true, I wouldn't be ecstatic, but if she made him happy, then it makes me happy.

I have tried talking to him so many times about the way I feel and everytime he gets aggravated and says that we go through this all the time. He then reminds me that he is just in no position to do more than what we have right now. That is why I ask how long is too long to wait for someone to figure out what they want. And he confuses me because like the other day when I was talking to him on the phone when he was home, I asked if he were alone and he said yes. I said, bet you can't wait for everyone to get home, and he said I can't wait for you to get home. I told him I was at home, he said no home, here????? What does that mean. One minute he is hot, the next minute he is cold, and he makes little remarks like that all the time, so essentially I feel like a dog chasing its tail. I stay so confused. The little remarks he makes make me think he wants to be together on a permanent basis, so that is what prompts the confrontation about us being together, then he gets mad?

JG,

I'm not a big fan of ultimatums, they come off like threats to me.

If I were in your shoes, I'd tell him that I needed a break from all of this stuff to clear my head and let him see what life is like without you on a day to day basis. I'd tell him that I would be willing to resume our relationship if and when he was ready to introduce me as his girlfriend to his family and maybe if he did that we could move this relationship forward some. It puts the responsibility for changing his behavior on Jerry, right where it belongs.

But honestly, if he doesn't want to be around small children long term, your prospects with him are almost non-existant. You might want to cut your losses now and find a man who loves you and your children as well.

Make sense?

Originally posted by jerrysgirl
That is why I ask how long is too long to wait for someone to figure out what they want. It looks like he's already figured out what he wants. He wants you to give up everything and him to give up nothing and the two of you to stay in limbo for as long as he can convince you not to leave.

It sounds like you're very frustrated with this relationship, and I can certainly see why. It doesn't appear that he wants a future with you if he won't let you fully into his life. It doesn't matter how much you love someone or how much you enjoy their company if you want fundamentally different things.

you do not spend that much time with someone and say you don't love them. I'm not sure I agree with this. Time doesn't create love. You can spend an entire lifetime with someone, but if they're always selfish and untrusting then how can you say there's love there?

One thing I'm confused about: He doesn't want to raise small children and yet his grandchildren live with him? I don't understand his logic there. It doesn't seem like he's averse to children (he took yours on a vacation after all), so this just seems like an excuse to not move the relationship forward.

I apologize if this sounds harsh, but it totally sounds as though he is using you, and that you are totally letting him. Why would he want anything to change?

Hey Jerseygirl

It seems to me that your bf is uncomfortable with the age gap in your relationship, and he feels that there is no way he can explain this to his daughter and grandchildren. Now, don't get me wrong, I fully understand that in the beginning, people in age disparate relationships will want to take things smoothly and make sure that what they have is genuine and likely to be long-lasting on both counts before they reveal what they have to a family who would likely be disapproving and judgmental. They both know that if the relationship fails soon after they introduce each other to their families, this will give their respective families ammunition to use against them in future disagreements, as well as all of the attendant "I told you so's" in regards to whatever ageist attitudes they may have.

But the thing is, you have been with this man for nearly two years now. This is more than enough time for him to make up his mind if he actually loves you enough to bring you fully into his life. But two years later, this guy is still uncomfortable with the notion of introducing you to his family. If he was truly in love with you deeply, rather than simply enjoying your company on a close but peripheral level, then he would scarcely care what even his family thinks. He would expect them to simply accept you out of respect for him, knowing that in time, if you truly loved their father or grandfather, they would indeed come to accept and even like you, regardless of the "awkwardness" (in their eyes) of the age difference.

I do not think this man is ever going to agree to have a committed future with you. I know this is heart-rending to hear, but I think your best interests would be to find yourself a man (of any age group) who loves you enough to be proud to show you off to his family once he is sure that you love him just as much as he loves you.

This guy seems to be more interested in a good 'friend with benefits' at his personal convenience (i.e., that won't disrupt his family life) than a genuine romantic love interest.

This will hurt a lot at first, and you won't be able to accept it right away emotionally (especially not if you're very emotionally attached to this guy), but once you do accept it and move on...you will find that there is a genuine love interest out there who will love you as much as you love him :-)

The future may seem bleak right now, but that's only because you're still emotionally hooked on this particular man.

Good luck, and keep us updated...we're all here for you when you need us.

Italian Knight