Men

I am so sick of them! I am so sick of them being the center of the universe. Of picking and choosing the right words around them.

Even here living with my mom with ALZ and my Dad, I can see that my Mom has it going on much more than my Dad ever did.
He was very successful in life, but my Mom could have put him to shame in another era. I can remember all the little hissy fits Dad threw about ridiculous things and we had to dance around him and Mom learned it well. I can't even express this but seeing it played out here before me sickens and infuriates me both.

When I got down here my Mom couldn't do a dang thing! She was emaciated - 81 pounds and the dr. gave her 6 months. Now she is 96 pounds. Dad has always tried to control her weight and I think he was still doing it, not realizing he was killing her. She is learning to do things herself now and although she is shaky and sometimes confused, she is becoming a part of the living again ;o) I previously thought Dad was "killing her with kindness." I now see that he is just controlling her to the nth degree. I love my Dad - don't get me wrong. He is pitiful at this stage and frustrated and weak. I can see Dad still has those little rules - 3 square meals whether anyone is hungry or not, and "oleo" spread on all his sandwhiches or else - no flexibility. I recall how in ALL my relationships I am the one accommodating and learning to fulfil his whims from shopping to cooking etc while suppressing mine.. I see women bending and breaking over brats that mamma spoiled. Why is it that almost every man without exception gets satisfied during sex? everytime. what's going on here?

But in general I am so sick of the whole trip. Of guys being "studs" and girls being "ho's" Even talk among girls frequently is about their lack of a man. WE are always waiting for THEM to call, to email us. Why? I am number one in this! Why? I know I do love guys even though I don't sound like it here, but something is off-kilter in the whole scheme of things!

oh well, I could go on...sorry dan and whoever else is here and obviously not one of those guys I've mentioned.(see, here I am a** kissing again!)

Why does the world seem to revolve around them when obviously we are goddesses and men should be bowing low at our feet!

You have some valid points. Women are still not treated as equals to men in this country. This was addressed in my Social Problems class in high school. My teacher pointed out stud/ho issue. If a guy sleeps with 4 or more women, he'l usually get the reaction "You the stud man." Now, if a women sleeps with 4 or more guys, the reaction she'll most likely get is "Aw, you ho!" That is just so wrong. I'm a "both genders ae equal" person, and it pisses me off that women are still not being treated as equal to guys by the majority of other guys. Also, society is definetely messed up on the unfair sexual standards towards women! :mad:
;)

ah, grasshopper. soon you may be worthy of being the beloved servant of a beautiful strong ever-changing mother of all things
and may be permitted to worship at her feet....

I'm a "both genders ae equal" person, and it pisses me off that women are still not being treated as equal to guys by the majority of other guys.
What about women who don't want to see equality between the sexes?

Ever wonder how we (male of the species) got to where Abby says we are?

Some say it is due to Eve feeding Adam that apple.

Personally, I think it is due to men not being able to read maps, myself included. I get lost using maps (ocean charts not included). Guess if I could read a map, I'd know the way to a womans heart. But as usual, I'm lost. I keep going round and round and round. "Do I take a left here?" "Right!" "Right?" "Left you idiot!" "But you said 'right'!" "Nevermind."

Give me ocean charts, I can find a needle in a haystack out there.
Port and starboard. Works everytime;)

Originally posted by Mark
What about women who don't want to see equality between the sexes?

Do those women actually exist anymore? What woman doesn't want equal opportunity as men... whether it's sexually, socially, professionally... or in any way?

Originally posted by SaltwaterBlues
.
Personally, I think it is due to men not being able to read maps, myself included. I'm a female, I hate reading maps, and you'll never catch me asking for directions.

Originally posted by SaltwaterBlues
Ever wonder how we (male of the species) got to where Abby says we are?

Some say it is due to Eve feeding Adam that apple.


Give me ocean charts, I can find a needle in a haystack out there.
Port and starboard. Works everytime;)

Leave it to a guy to say that! But you know - maybe it is true.
Look at it. Guys don't ever have Aunt Flo visit. They never experience the pain of childbirth and they DO bust their n** everytime they have sex in like 3 minutes or so!!!

Thanks for the insight Peter - you're never the stereotype. Even if you can't read a map!
Abby

My favorite subject............since I was 5.
I have a friend though, and woman older than I, who absolutely fawns over men. Like, in "feeling their muscle" and batting her eyes and always looking soft and sexy. She can sweet talk anyone of them into doing her bidding. Often, her behavior made me want to smack her. But let me tell you, that honey has men worshipping at her feet. They adore her. And she learned way early that was how to "control" them and make them do her bidding. She has way more success than I. Maybe it's power. She never puts up with any crap from them and never has to.
I had an older brother who seemed to get all the good stuff, do all the fun stuff, and seemed to be "perfect". I resented him from day one too, because he got to be with Dad more. I told my dad how I felt when I was 50 and he said, "I never knew. I thought it was a girl for her and a boy for me." Old, outdated thought patterns. Not his fault. It's all he understood. So, I have always been a "tomboy" and completly independent and will ask no man to do what I can do for myself.............. It gets you a whole different type of attention from men. And, is my friend happy ?
Mostly. But not always. Her husband of 49 years cooks for her and does grocery shopping (he is retired) but he allows her to do whatever she wants............and he does not give her the attention she needs. So something is still not right. But she gets positive attention always from men away from home. Life is a confusing, learning......always learning, experience.

I think a big part of the problem is that many women are content to complain instead of actually doing something to improve their own situation. When women complain about inequality they usually direct their complaints at men. If the problem is that women are seen as weaker and less capable, doesn't it make us seem even more so when we expect men to solve this problem for us? Men do have more power in business and society in general, but you really can't expect them to give up that power voluntarily. Why should they? I wouldn't. All any of us can do is take care of ourselves and be accepting of women who are living their lives differently from us (instead of labeling them negatively).

My dad grew up in the 40's and 50's so he's definitely part of the "older generation" of men. Even so, he never treated me like I couldn't do something because I was female. Neither did my brothers. But my mom and other female relatives did. I'm not convinced that it's men holding us back. I think we do more damage to each other, unconsciously perpetuating beliefs and expectations about what women are supposed to be, than men could ever do.

About the apple that Eve gave to Adam . . . it was that damn snake (Satan) who ruined everything, because he was feeling pissed for being kicked out of heaven because he was being a jerk! :mad:
;)

Lol ... I almost couldn't stop laughing ...

Ok, Saltwaterblues, I'm not certain that roadmap reading is the TOTAL answer, but hey, I think you might be onto something. I'm sure one of the wimmin here could give you some good pointers to help you out ... well, that is ... if you didn't mind asking for it. :D

And Qui-Gon Jinn, I've never heard the story put QUITE that way, but again, I think you just might be onto something ...

As for you Abbey, why not be the first woman on your block to change all that ... Let's see those feet ... are they worthy of all the worshipping it will see ever so soon??? Another woman liberated!!! Let us know how it all works for you. :)

princessdy

Abby,
The Shadow,is very sorry you feel that way towards men,be it OM or YM.
There men out there as The Shadow,believes in treating a woman to higher standard.As The Shadow does,treats women as queens,as yall are.
The Shadow wants a woman who he can love,honor,respect,and treat her as the woman she is.Wants to be there for her...as her rock...In turn The Shadow asks for the same.
Hopefully one day,The Shadow will find that specail lady.Until then he does,he's still looking.



The Shadow

Pink - I was just venting! And I agree with you about lip service. I took the company I work for to court for sexual discrimination and changed some long standing "traditions" at my plant. And I think things are changing. But I'm not a feminist. Is there such a thing as an "egualist?"

I just was as sick of the whole "man" thing as I know men get of the "woman" thing.(even though we are right and they are wrong ;0) ) and true - due to some weaknesses of character I have let myself become a doormat in exhange for having someone to hold me at night.

But, I think I may be gathering strength - the same strength that gave me the spirit to go to court to stand up for myself is spilling over into my personal life in bits and pieces. I hope.

You know Shadow, for every guy like you there are about a thousand who want to have a woman who takes care of them and whom them can love when they choose and ignore when it's convenient. The statistics on wife abuse are truly frightening, but even the nice guys can be dominating, domineering and controlling.

It's partly the culture of most countries in the world and partly the fact that men are physically stronger and have that hormone called testosterone which ups their aggression. It's built in to conquer and if you can't run a country -- you can run your own house. *sigh*

I was raised in a matriarchy and it took me quite a while to realize that men aren't all stupid and mean. Some of them just act that way because they are afraid to be nice fearing that gentleness = weakness. Actually gentleness is the mark of true strength because it means that the man has nothing to prove.

Peace,
Jane

Hi Ms,Jane,

So ture...so ture.For in person Im a very very quite person.For there days I go with out saying single word.For me action speak louder than words.Once went a whole week,without saying a word.
Been told by a few of my EX's that I'm"too quite".The"strong and silent type".As I keep alot for emotions inside.Xpressing myself sometimes is hard.For me,there will be days,I can't even said those three powerful words,but will do my best the show my love.

The Shadow

nice guys can be dominating, domineering and controlling.
I've always had the impression that most women seem to be attracted to those kind of "dominating, domineering, and controlling" men. Maybe this is a false impression. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't guys with aggressive, "renegade", James Dean type personalities always attract more women than shy, passive men?

You are right. I think it is because women are always hoping just "if" something should come up they couldn't handle, they would have a bad a** in the wings to take care of it. LOL
Maybe I am wrong. I like being strong and independent, but there are some situations like physical fighting or shouting, I would step aside and let Ken handle it ! I hate confrontations like that. A couple times, my oldest son got into situations that I turned over to his dad because he was a very strong, emotionless man and he knew how to be tough. But 99% of the time, I took care of everything.

Originally posted by Mark
I've always had the impression that most women seem to be attracted to those kind of "dominating, domineering, and controlling" men. Maybe this is a false impression. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't guys with aggressive, "renegade", James Dean type personalities always attract more women than shy, passive men?
I don't know about "most" women... but those kind of men definitely have their appeal,at first.

At first, their "dominating, domineering, and controlling" nature is often not evident; it doesn't always become apparent until after the couple has solidified a genuine relationship. In the beginning, though, the man seems to have very appealing traits: confidence, toughness, competence, control, and protectiveness. Those are all "masculine" traits that many women feel drawn to initially.

Once the relationship begins in earnest and the uncertainty of the hunt is over, however, the same thing happens that happens in all relationships: the "real person" emerges, with all of his/her flaws. Then we see the dark side of those initially appealing traits.

That's when women begin to complain about their man... and some of them wisely leave, but others stick it out valiantly or bitterly, while others still become the victims of abuse.

Originally posted by WiserNotSadder
Then we see the dark side of those initially appealing traits. I think that's exactly it. People who are controlling tend to hide that trait and be on their "best behavior" at first. Combined with most people's tendency to look past imperfections in the beginning of a relationship, it can be hard to identify a controlling person at first.

IMHO, women generally do want a partner who is confident, decisive, strong, etc. Sometimes when someone seems to have those traits, they really have a controlling nature that they're trying to hide. But other times there isn't anything bad lurking below the surface. Men can be emotionally available, passionate, sensitive, and also very strong and confident. I tend to see men who can't show a more sensitive side as actually being very weak. As Jane said, it takes a lot of strength to show vulnerability.

P.S. Abby, I know you were just venting, lol. Sometimes I can't help but take up for people, though. :D