Can I trust him again?

Hi everyone. I've posted here a few times before. Just a quick background on my YM and I, he's 24 I'm 39. We've been dating pretty steadily for the past few months. I had posted a while back about him having a problem w/being exclusive. Although he hasn't come back to me saying that we are, all the evidence points to the fact that we are. We are always together and up to this point I haven't gotten any clue that he might be seeing anybody else. Although I had orginally wanted to hear it from him, I've decided that at this point, actions are more important to me right now (as they say, actions speak louder than words) and his actions have proved that he's w/me 100%.

UNTIL, I found out something about him this past Friday that just blew me away. Not having to do w/another woman, but with him as a person. It turns out that my dear YM had been taking/borrowing my new car (which I just got a month ago) without my knowledge. Somehow he got a hold of one of my extra car keys and has once taken it to work w/him and just last Friday, after he spent the earlier part of the nite at my house (he left at 10:30) took it again to go out. The way he got caught is that on Friday nite, after he went to like 3 diff. bars (which he later told me about), he went back to my house to drop it off. Little did he know that my oldest daughter was up at that time and happened to be looking out the window, and sure enough she saw him pull up adn park it exactly where I had left it. Of course when I confronted him he wouldn't admit it right away (my daughter wasn't in front of him). I let like 15 mins. go by and I then again insisted telling him that my daughter had no reason to make something like that up and that it would be worse if he kept denying it to me. At that point he confessed and told me how he had also taken if that Thursday to go to work.

I was in shock. I felt so betrayed. I felt like I really didn't know this person (who I trusted 100%) at all. I told him this and he got really emotional, started crying asking me to forgive him. I told him to go home, that I couldn't even look at him. He called me like 10 times that nite, but I wouldn't take his calls.

My problem is that I feel like I want to forgive him, but if I do, how can I really ever trust him again? It was so freaky seeing how he was so cool when I first confronted him and he was like "I don't know what your daughter is talking about". The easy way that he lied and didn't even batter a lash really freaked me out, because lying came so easily to him. He didn't even look nervous or anxious that he had just gotten caught.

So that's what I'm battling w/right now. My feelings for him and the feeling of betrayal. My daughter thinks I should never forgive him; she's really angry w/him. She knows how much trouble I've gone thru to get this new car and she knows that his DL has been suspended, and she knows that he drinks when he goes out so she says that he could've crashed my car and then what. Honestly, I don't think she'll ever be able to see him the same way, and I don't think I will either.

Obvisouly, he's been calling and has apologized over and over. He's acting really humble right now. My daughter says that if I forgive him so soon that he'll know that he can get away w/a lot more just by saying sweet words.

I don't know what to do. Any advice?

p.s. I know he does this same thing regularly w/his mother's car, but come on, I'm not his mother. Could this be more an imaturity issue than a trust issue?

It's a trust issue. Period. This is a guy that you are dating who has stolen your car without your permission so he can use it whenever it's inconvenient for him AND he has lied about it to boot.

Think about this. Go back and read your post to us. Is this really a guy that you want to have a relationship with? How on earth can you trust someone who steals your car? Yes, this is stealing, IMO, because he never got permission to use it.


edit: I'm sorry if my post seems blunt, but I truthfully don't know any other way to say this. I'm very concerned for you that if you take him back that you'll continue to be hurt by him. I hope that you've demanded your key back.

how bout this:

read your post gal, now imagine it's your daughter writing it and read it again. what would you tell her to do as her mother, the one person who cares for her more than anyone else in the world.
because you have to care for yourself like that.
what would you say if it was your daughter?

Afraid I agree with the other two posters. :( This is definitely a very large red flag. The ease with which he lied when you confronted him...I would never be able to trust anyone who could lie to my face like that. Also, I would be concerned about the drinking and driving. That could be an indicator of a problem drinker or even an alcoholic. I would chalk this one up to experience and move on.

Hi thenewme---I dont blame you for being upset.

I guess my first question is why was your YMs drivers license suspended in the first place?
I also just bought a new car a couple of weeks ago and know the hell I went thru to get the loan and re-budget to make sure I can handle the payments and higher insurance premiums. Here's a pat on the back to ya cuz I know it prolly feels like youve been raked over the coals just like me and my purse is empty LOL.

What if your YM had crashed your new car and he was behind the wheel drunk? How much trouble would that cause for you and your kids? I dont think he gave it a thought.

My second question is why, if he spent Friday night with you till 10:30 didnt he just say, "Hey I feel like having a couple drinks, wanna go?" Then you could have had the choice and you could have driven your own car.

I think that these are issues but the biggest deal here is broken trust.
Like the others have said, its very hard to get back.
Hope you get some good advice here and can talk things thru with your YM if thats what you decide to do.

I'm exactly like that. I believe in the good in people (even when they sometimes do things that hurt us). It's hard for me to harshly judge them or to hold grudges because I always look at it as "we're human, we all make mistakes, and if it was me in that situation, wouldn't I want a second chance?"

I don't know.... part of me wants to give him a second chance but the other part of me, the part that is thinking logically and with common sense, tells me to walk away now and avoid future heartache. It just won't be that easy for me. :(

Everyone wants a second chance (and a third, and a fourth...), but the question is does he deserve a second chance? Maybe he's really sorry and maybe he's not. The ease with which he lied and the quick waterworks and pleas for forgiveness make me think it's all just manipulation.

If this isn't enough to end it, how far will you allow him to go before you stop giving him second chances? Does he have to wreck your car? Pawn your jewelry? Start making passes at your daughter? I'm not saying he would do any of these things (except wreck your car - there's a good chance of that if he's driving drunk), but you have to have boundaries on how you allow people to treat you. He's supposed to be your partner, not your charity case. Some people will just keep running all over you as long as you allow it.

I know how you feel about wanting to forgive him. I forgave my ex for many things he did to hurt me. I am definitely one who sees the human being behind the mistake and one who believes in forgiveness and in second chances. But I have also learned that there is a limit.

I just feel that him using your personal property without your knowledge or permission is a completely lack of respect for you. How can he tell you he respects you if he took your car without your knowledge and permission and drove it with a suspended driver's license? It sure does appear that he is taking advantage of you.

If you do give him a second chance, then you need to be clear in your expectations with him. And, then can you trust him ever again?

To answer your questions, his DL was suspended a few years back for drunken driving. And yes, buying this new car has left me totally drained and caused me to be behind on my other bills. And yes, he didn't think of how much trouble he could've caused me had he gotten into an accident or even just pulled over (I think they would've impounded my car). Or what if I had looked out the window, found it missing and reported it stolen to the police. How embarassing if the police had reported back to me w/his name. All of this is just too much for me right now.

And it's not just about the car. It's about the broken trust. I had opened my home to this guy. I had trusted him unconditionally w/my kids. Now all of this raises concerns in that area too. How can I be sure?

And to answer your question about why he didn't just ask me to go for a drink w/him. I didn't have a babysitter for that nite so I couldn't come w/him. I had mentioned on another thread that this guy goes out constantly (maybe skips a night here and there), but for the most part, he goes out and drinks every night. I actually had a discussion about that w/his sister this weekend (she doesn't know about the car thing, I didn't want to tell her). I was explaining to her that I wish he didn't feel the need to go out and drink everyday. That it was really starting to worry me because I was afraid he might turn into an alcoholic. I even asked her about family history of alcoholism, and she said there are a few uncles in her family that are. I told her that I was finding myself going out more and more everytime to just spend time w/him but that it was affecting me and that I just could not keep up w/him.

I know everyone here will now advise me to run for the hills....pronto. I know that's the advice I would give me too. :(

My cousing is married and has been for like 30 years to a functional alcoholic. And I think in her mind, if she had it to do again, she would do it just the same. The possibiliy of leaving him because of his drinking I don't think ever ocurred to her. To her it's just a matter of life.

Me, I don't know. I myself have alcoholism in my family, along with substance abuse issues in the past, so for me to be involved w/someone who will encourage this behavior is very dangerous. And I've given this a lot of thought. And thought about ending it based on this, but I always rationalized that I could stay and help him change his drinking habits. What had ended up happening was that I was joining him in the everyday drinking, not getting him to stop.

Wow, as you can see, we have a lot more issues than trust. It's funny how when I start writing about it, it all comes out. And I don't like what I'm writing.........don't like what I'm hearing......

Thanks for sharing that. I know that sometimes what one person finds saveable, others won't even touch. I'm glad that you stuck by your Brian and that things have worked out for the two of you. If you don't mind me asking, what where your trust issues w/him?

What I'm thinking is that if I decide to stay (as you did) and give him a second chance, he's going to have to make some major changes. For one, the everyday drinking and hanging out will have to stop. As much as I love him, I'm not going to risk my stability (family and work) over him and the possibility that he drags me w/him into alcoholism, rather than me helping him out.

And two, he would have to work real hard at earning my trust again. And I mean real hard. And earning my oldest daughter's trust for that matter. I'm afraid it would take a while w/her as well. She had welcomed him into our home w/open arms as well, and she too feels that that trust has been violated.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. I'm at work right now and can't let this thing take over my day. I will take it a day at a time and see how it all plays out.

Thanks for all your replies girls, I'm so glad I found this site! This is by far the best site I've visited.

Hugs

You already have someone giving you good advice. That person is your daughter. She knows this guy -- we don't. She's already been hurt by him when he called her a liar. She already knows that he cannot be trusted.

Listen to your daughter.

I think if he steals your car, drives it without a license, drinks and god forbid, hits someone, that you could be in jail for quite a while if you admit to any foreknowledge of his habits.

This isn't just juvenile behavior, it's bordering on criminal behavior.

Originally posted by ScarletHawke
You already have someone giving you good advice. That person is your daughter. She knows this guy -- we don't. She's already been hurt by him when he called her a liar. She already knows that he cannot be trusted.

Listen to your daughter.

Your daughter is a pretty smart cookie. LISTEN TO HER... He didnt just steal your car to go to work but to go out and hit the bars and drink and risk wrecking your car and showing no respect or maturity at all. I know your hurt over this, and only you can decide what to do, but I think the woman here have given you some great advice, along with your daughter. I hope you really think hard about this. It also seems he wasnt about to tell the truth until he had no way out of it He wasnt sorry after he took your car to go to work, or when he took it to go out bar hopping, and if you hadnt confronted him he would probably still be taking it. So to me the crying was because he got caught, not because he was sorry he took the car and lied to you. :(

thenewme...if you have alcoholism in your family, and have grown up around that type of behavior, it very much explains whyyou are involved with this guy. You will tend to attract people who "fit" into your idea of what was "normal" growing up, just as a child from a family where abuse was "normal" will usually end up with an abuser for a partner, or be one themselves. I DEFINITELY think, based on that information, you should get out of this relationship and do a lot of work on yourself so you quit attracting these kinds of people. Having spent 3 years of my life with an alcoholic/ drug abusing/ mental case myself, I speak from experience here. YOU CANNOT HELP THEM. You are fooling yourself to think that if you love them enough, they will change their behavior. THEY WON"T. They will only change if/when it becomes apparent to them that their behavior is destructive to them and everyone around them. For some people, that never happens. The best thing to do is GET AWAY from them before they drag you down into the gutter with them. Sometimes, if they really love you, the act of your leaving will be enough of a wake-up call. But you have to be strong, and not take them back based on just, say, two weeks of AA meetings and sobriety. I have known a few couples who managed to get it together in spite of the mates addiction, but only because the addict cared enough to really try, and because the mate stuck to their guns and would not accept living with that behavior.

Of course, the choice is yours. I know that leaving that relationship was one of the very hardest things I ever did, and I was in therapy myself for a year after it, trying to salvage some self-esteem. But I definitely learned my lsesson, if the hard way.
So, good luck with your choice, and may god guide you.

The part I would be most upset by is the part where he called my daughter a liar, or implied. I have set good examples for my daughter's with the honesty department and when they tell me something I believe it. As you do I'm sure. So as it goes the jerk was pitting you against your daughter, banking you'd believe him over her. Sorry that just pi$$es me off. boot him to the curb, your daughter will never feel the same any way.

Dear "thenewme," "Nessa," and all others who took the time to write and share: Thank you, as always, for being there. I am in a slightly different situation but with the same stressors: trust and alcohol (abuse?) that came along with my dear YM who I love so much. I, too, have sub. abuse all in my family and myself am in recovery (8 yrs now), so have thought the same things about whether or not I should really be in this relationship. Despite plenty of knowledge and ESH (experience, strength and hope) rec'd from Al-Anon/AA and other readings and people, I also feel inside I somehow think I can "help fix him" if I just "love him well enough." We know that is not true, and living with an active drinker can be downright dangerous - it can feel just like you are in the muck with him drinking, bec. we live from crisis to crisis, sadly.

Trust is a fragile thing, and if you find, like I have, that it feels as if you are somehow living waiting for the other shoe to drop, searching his face for any sign that he is either stretching the truth, outright lying, or gettting ready to manipulate in some way, then warning signs abound. If we feel our boundaries are being either stomped on, disrespected, ignored, or outright pushed so that we are constantly uncomfortable and upset, then that tells us something. I don't know the answer, it feels hard when there is so much love, but part of what hurts so badly is the disappointment and the death of a dream - that person you thought you knew, well, just isn't....he doesn't exist, or does he? It's a constant question and battle to understand and interpret and figure it all out. All I know right now is that I would love to hear more from you ladies either via post or PM so that we can help each other sort through the love and the deception and the stretched boundaries and comfort zones. Right now it feels worth it, but I am weary. Thanks for listening.

You don't need to have children, because you've already got one!
And thenewme this sounds about right with this ym. If I get a vote, I vote to dump his butt, not only for stealing your car, but for calling your daughter a liar about it....that would make me burning angry.....
:(

pgato888 and thenewme: Just some ideas this whole thread made me think of:

Relationnships are difficult enough without the added stress of a substance abuse problem. Even between two people who do not abuse drugs or alcohol, the normal fluctuations of brain chemsitry and the normal differences between individuals make communication tricky. I personally find that the focus necessary to have effective communication is missing in the actively abusing person. However...when you love someone and you yourself have had success in beating the problem, I can imagine that it is hard to give up hope for them. Personally though, even though I loved the man very much, things got to the point where the stress of living with such an unbalanced person was much worse than the stress of living without them. I agree that the death of your dreams of a good life together, as well as the "death" of the idea of the person you thought they could be are the hardest part of giving up on such relationships. However....there is a certain relationship stress level that I will no longer maintain out of respect for my own mind and emotions. I think each person has a limit...we all have to figure out where that is. It's kind of like the alcoholic has to find out where his/her "rock bottom" is, and that will become the place from which change is possible. As difficult as it is, as lovers of people with abuse problems, we often MUST separate from the person in order to help THEM find out what thier own limits are. If nothing else, we can go on with our own healing and our own lives. In the best senario, our leaving them shocks them into realizing the seriousness of their problem and the need to conquer it. However, if we let them back in to our lives too quickly they will then slide right back in to their behavior once they are back in their "comfort"zone with us. I wish there was a quick and easy way out of such places...but there isn't. It's something each person has to learn for themselves.

You are SO RIGHT ON.

Dear Dian,
I very much agree with you and have tried to convey this to my beloved YM, along with the disappointment of having to deal with this in the first place when he "seemed" so stable and together at first. I am not sure what to do. I am in the "withdrawal as self-protection and to shock into reality" mode - I cannot help it - so he is very hurt. I am doing the best I can. This is a consequence of him overdrinking again and not following through on things he has said he would do. I want to believe, and until I can no longer, I will be here with and for him. Thank you for listening and caring!

Believing in him is fine, standing by him is fine, but the more you move the "line" of what you will tolerate, the more this will continue. He has done enough now that even loving him, he needed to be told the relationship is on hold until he addresses this problem. You believe in him when hes going to AA meetings, when he isnt drinking and when you see a change. You stand by him when he gets his one year sobriety pin, or when he slips ( if he wants help) Otherwise, your not helping him by accept him the way he is when the way he is is destructive to himself and those around him including you.. If you continue to accept and forgive and make excuse or feel sad for him and believe his promises that fall through, you become an enabler and you know thats the worst thing you can be if you want to be part of someone changing by helping them. I know you have been through this yourself, but your on the other side now and it might help for you to go to some meetings for the wives and girlfriends of Alcoholics, if you havent already. What you have learned in meetings for Alcoholics is a different story from what you need to know as the wife or girlfriend of an Alcoholic. Just a suggestion. :)

dear charo,
thank you so much for taking the time to respond. this is why i love this board - i get exactly what i need to hear to move me forward, to give me strength. i agree with you 100% but have been hiding from anything that smacks of either letting go or giving him an ultimatum. i just know i cannot be in a codependent, enabling relationshp for long. you are the second person who has suggested al-anon support...so God is talkign to me cuz there ain't no coincidences in this life (grin). thank you for being there and caring. more soon...