Getting thru the Rough Patches

I posted earlier an article Whiterose found months ago.... of the secrets of happy couples.

However, we are not always happy. and life isn't always a bed of roses, and we do have our down times. The key is how do we get past them. Lets share our thoughts on how we get thru them and what we do to keep our relationships healthy.

:) I'll start of course.

My husband and I argue like cats and dogs sometimes. Expecially now where lack of sleep and the typical stress of a newborn is high right now. The first thing we do is we just look at each other and stop yelling or disagreeing and go into netural corners.. I will LITERALLY leave the room or even go for a drive.... I am the type that needs to calm down. Then we talk!!! I let him tell me how he feels and Then he lets me tell him mine and we disect it....

I for one need to leave , because We always tend to get viscious and say nasty things , things we regret later... so instead of us doing that.. we have learned thru time to not get there.. and leave before the nasty insults start flying.....

Another good thing to me is to recongize the mistakes we have made in arguements and try to fix them for the next time a heated conversation happens :)Like ours was to learn to leave the room... :)

hmmm... fights... i try to avoid them like the plague...learned its not a good thing to get to yelling part of and for me its a conscious decision not to go there.
now a disagreement, when i see it can start to get out of hand, i tend to become quite...neutral time till we both can talk more calmly. what i have found, it is usually a miscommunication problem, and we want a compromise and a win/win situation.

This is a good topic.

Studies show that what's more important than whether or not a couple argues is HOW they argue *together*

Conflicting argument styles between partners causes the most distress in couples and usually is a good indicator of relationship success. For example if a person with a more direct argument style hooks up with someone who is more passive with arguments, there will most likely be some heavy issues that take place in the relationship.

As for us, I'm generally really easy going but on the rare occassion that I get ticked, I don't hold back. My husband doesn't either. (Very much the opposite of the Hedgehogs!) It kind of looks like an episode of the Sopranos when there's some dissention in the thatgirl household.

The good news is that it blows over quickly and doesn't happen that often. ;)

Peace,
thatgirl

These are great stories and comments...

We know there are more of you out there... LOL that can contribute here... :)

Come out come out wherever you are!! lol

Robin and I, after five years, have stopped being polite and started being real! But even when we argue (and we do!) we don't hit below the belt as was mentioned before. We value eachother so much, we don't want to say anything so vile and mean that it can't be forgiven. Words can hurt worse than physical blows, and have even more traumatic effects.

We rarely raise our voices, but when we do, it's over a very heated matter. Robin has even punched a door on occassion. Once, he broke a remote in half with his bare hands! I was like, "I'm not buying another one!":D Anyway, our more heated arguements, interestingly enough, tend to get more results as far as resolving a matter. Then we have make-up sex!

There have been times when we hit a rough patch that lasted weeks or a month. We've been in such a patch lately, with finances. We had a really bad summer, and now we're in the worst financial position we've ever been in, but are still clinging to hope and eachother. It does no good to play the blame game.

Getting through rough patches requires being logical (which I am often not, but Robin thankfully is). Recognizing the problem, looking at the causes and options and resolving to implement those options is pretty much all you can do. In the end, you either love the person enough to ride out the storm, or you get to a point where you can't see it working any more, and you make a clean break. Those are really the only two things you can do. I don't think that counseling is ever a bad idea. If it's affordable, it should be considered.

I was never in a good, healthy, sane relationship until now. I wake up every morning, very blessed to be next to Robin. I suppose that is a huge motivation when working through rough patches, and will continue to be one. Each thing we work through, makes us stronger and more resilient to the speed bumps that life puts in our path.

Hi Gang
For I do not like to argue.LOL,after all dont anyone to argue with.....just kidding.
Think trying to talk about it is the best way to handle a"fight".For there's always two sides to every situation.For who's right and who's wrong,doesnt matter.Talking about may be that both are wrong,are both could be right.So realy think,talking about it....after each is settled down,is best.


The Shadow

I always feel miserable when Jo Ann and I fight. It's like I'm suddenly on one of those swaying rope bridges, over a half-mile deep abyss, and all the boards are giving way.

Thank goodness she brought a wonderful tool into our relationship! It's something Harville Hendrix describes in his book, "Getting the Love You Want." When things do get tough, this is what we fall back upon.

One person talks while the other listens. No interruptions are allowed. The first person gets to talk until they've completely had their say. Then the second person, the listener, has to repeat back what they heard. The speaker gets to repeat and correct until the listener has correctly heard what the speaker was trying to say.

Then you switch roles. The second person becomes the speaker and the first person becomes the listener.

You repeat this process until both people have expressed everything they're feeling and have been fully and correctly heard by the other.

The goal isn't necessarily to agree in the end (although it's nice when that happens), it's simply to truly hear and be heard.

What it does is prevent that thing that everyone does in an argument, where you're busy making up your own arguments and defenses while the other person's still talking. It also keeps things real and current. It sort of forces you to stay with the issue at hand.

We've used this successfully for all the 12 years we've been together, and it's gotten us through some things that could have easily torn us apart. It even worked when Jo Ann and my then-teenage daughter (her step-daughter) got into a fight! (That one ended in a 3-way group hug and happy tears.) I figured that if it could work with a teenager, then it MUST be a powerful tool!


-- Wayne

Hey Wayne, thanks for posting that - I know that technique from elsewhere and yes, when you are at a point where you're in danger of not hearing each other, it is a very very effective tool.

Well - my honey and I don't fight, and it's not because of avoidance. We just resolve differences quickly and fairly. The most fight-like things ever get is when one or both of us starts getting a tiny bit snappish. Then we know we need to have a quick meeting of the minds, and we're good. We both tend toward the "rational" way of problem-solving, so it's easy for us to use it and it's bizarre for me to imagine something happening like J dragging some past hurt into a discussion, as I remember one particular long-term ex never failing to do. :rolleyes: Of course...there really isn't much past hurt my honey could latch onto, since I'm good to him! And he is -not- one to imagine all sorts of injury, like the poor-me victim this ex is. (And -still- is...at 50 years old.)

This ex could get so nasty, and underneath the sugar he tried to pour on a lot of the time, I saw that he really did not respect me. I believe that argument styles can really expose where the basis of the relationship stands, and I wouldn't stay where the level of respect went below a certain threshold. I suppose there are couples who are able to tolerate a lot of nastiness and still feel things are workable...not I.

Originally posted by GoldieCat
I believe that argument styles can really expose where the basis of the relationship stands, and I wouldn't stay where the level of respect went below a certain threshold. I suppose there are couples who are able to tolerate a lot of nastiness and still feel things are workable...not I.


Hi GoldieCat,

My wife and I are much like you two. We try to resolve things quickly and thoroughly, so they don't build up and become bigger problems or linger afterward. We're both very susceptible (empathetic?) to each other's moods and feelings, so when one of us is hurting we BOTH hurt.

I think what you said about argument styles exposing the roots of the relationship is right on the money!


I'm ashamed to admit that I'm usually the more snappish of the two of us. Jo Ann is semi-retired (she's 61, I'm 46), and during and after her illness and with the subsequent string of sick and dying pets, I've been heavily in caretaker mode throughout much of the last 6 or 7 years, on top of working full-time at a job that's far too corporate. My strings get frayed too quickly, and we've had to use this talking tool more than we've wanted to. I'm always deeply glad of it when we come out the other side and are back to being a loving couple again.

-- Wayne

Wayne, I LOVE that tool that Jo Ann brought to the table. I'm going to try that. I'm also going to get that book.

Robin and I have hit our "bump"...well, it's more like a roadblock.

For the first two years of our relationship, everything was great. We NEVER argued, we were perfectly in sync, he was respectful and really nice to the kids. I'd say about 2 years into it, he started being more assertive and authoritative. "You're too soft" he would tell me, and felt that he could "help" with the parenting and "get the kids in line". He convinced me that they were without boundaries and walking all over me. I relented, and gave way to his parental involvement.

We've been together five years now, and it seems to me that he's getting more and more authoritative and at times, almost abusive. I've really hesitated to talk about this, because I know what kind of feedback I'm going to get, but I wanted to be sure before I came to the Board with this.

BTW, I love having this little nook of Ageless to come to. I'd much rather talk to people in LTR's about this than someone in a LDR or someone who is just dating or in the honeymoon stage.

Anyway, about a month ago, I had kind of a nervous breakdown. We were about to go into foreclosure for the second time, and I had to race around, gathering money from here, there and everywhere and get it into our account before the mortgage payment went through. On that very day, after all the running around, I had to have our 3 month old kitten put to sleep from seizures. It broke mine and my daughter's hearts. Exhausted, I came home, only to pull in the driveway and be greeted by my daughter. "You have to pick up Corey right now. He's with his friends." she informed me.

So back out I go, at 8 p.m., to find my son. He was supposed to get a ride home with the neighbors but didn't. I got so angry when I found him, I pretty much went off on him. He ended up getting out of the car and walking 5 miles home.

When he got home, he started mouthing off to me. Robin grabbed him by the neck, and told him to shut up. He told Robin to let go. Robin said, "You either put your neck into my hand and leave it there, or I'm really going to beat your ***!" I guess what Robin was trying to say was that he was the boss, but the whole thing made me ill. Corey was crying, Robin was yelling, and I was completely frayed.

Since then, Robin has become more verbally abusive, and has said demeaning things to me. We were at his brother's house last night, and I was telling his brother's fiance about the whole thing, and his brother said, "Well that sounds like something Dad would do!" BINGO! Robin has never had a good example of how to be an effective parent. I've tried to tell him that. Anyway, Robin got mad that I told them, and he stormed out. I didn't care.

He slept on the couch last night. Today, we are not speaking. I told him this morning to take his son and go to his dad's after he spanked my dog for having an accident. I said, "You know what? Don't touch my animals or my kids!" He left.

To add to this, he hasn't held a job for quite some time. He gets them, but he quits them. I can't support him. He's tried to start his own handyman business, but it hasn't taken off. He won't get a job at $7.50 an hour. I told him ANY money is better than none!

So here we are. I'm really ready to end this now. I don't know if I've done all I can or not though. I mean, I'm not Miss Perfect either, and he's put up with my faults. I'm not sure how much longer to work at this before I throw in the towel. I don't know if I can get him to counseling, and we can't afford to pay for it, would have to go to one of those sliding scale places.

Sorry for being so long-winded. Just needed to vent about this, and this seemed like a really good place to do it!:(

What Robin is doing with you and the kids is so not cool.

The job thing sucks too.

Sorry this is happening to you.

Peace,
thatgirl

Polly, sorry you're going through this.
Here's my advice, copy and print your own post, remove any identifying characteristics from it, and pretend you're reading the same post written by someone else.
You know what your head would tell you.
Sometimes you have to listen to your head, as much as your heart.

Thanks, guys. I knew I could count on you for support.

Well, he came home yesterday late afternoon, and was very apologetic. I said, "Are you tired of trying yet?" We just hugged after that, and he said, "You have to tell me what YOU want."

I told him I wanted him to be more patient with the kids, that physical discipline was out of the question, and that he had to get a job this week no matter how low the pay was. He agreed. He told me that he felt I was putting him down to his family (and I was) and that really made him angry. I told him I was sorry and I wouldn't air out our dirty laundry anymore.

Bella, I remember you telling me about an ex-husband who wouldn't work, and I keep asking myself if Robin is the same way. I mean, he's not lazy by any means, but refusing to take a job for less than $10 an hour is unrealistic in this economy.

Kelley, whenever I hear someone say, "That reminds me of my ex-husband" I know it can't be good! They wouldn't be ex's if they were good guys! I hope Robin isn't as abusive as your ex was. I don't fear him, and I don't believe he'd really hurt the kids. He's dealing with a mouthy 15-year-old boy who thinks he knows everything and we're idiots. But the hands off thing will stand.

We'll see what happens. *sigh*

Polly,
Wow. I hope you don't object to my offering you a few of my thoughts about your situation? I've been reading about you and Robbin for a long time now; I remember you describing all the good times and also some of the tough times and also how you managed to get through them. You are a very strong couple and you are living a very courageous lifestyle together in my opinion.

Just from the outside, things sound so over the top stressful for you right now.....the finances are shakey (nearly losing the mortgage must have had you up for nights on end!), you're not having the time to excercise and focus on your health (which somehow affects just everything, huh?), Robbin is not a great parent naturally because of the models he grew up with, and you're carrying much of the weight financially and emotionally too. For an entire family!No wonder you're at wits end

You're an amazing woman!. Truly! . I don't really have any advice, but if anyone could pull through this situation, I'm sure you can!

I'm just sorry to hear how rough things are for you right now. I hope things will get better soon ((HUGS))

Dear Polly,
I don't have a lot of time but had to post. I am sorry you are going through this and can so relate, which makes me feel even worse for you. My ex-boyfriend (first love after my husband and I parted) was first dreamy and sweet and affectionate and wonderful. He cooked us (my son and me) gourmet meals, cleaned house, did laundry, fixed things on the house, wrote love poems, was thoughtful and caring and the works. Most importantly, he connected so with my son to the point where I could not believe how sweet they were together. He was emotional and funny and humorous where my son's dad was serious and logical and anal, though a very, very good man and devoted father. I thought I had died and gone to heaven (did I mention he is a "tender Pisces" like me?). I thought it was meant to be. AFter about the first year, the temper, problems dealing with frustration/depression/alcohol and lack of patience (with my son) started sneaking out, but only once in awhile. I, too, tried to reason with him, set healthy boundaries, encourage him to go to counseling, etc. Anger mgt. support group therapy and individ. helped WHEN HE WENT, but it didn't last. Suffice to say, I stayed too long bec. I felt so invested in the relationship. I was betrayed nearly on all levels. Though he worked full-time at a great $50k job, he continued to not pay child support for his 4 kids in Canada (I found out at about a yr. and said unacceptable, let's fix this, we can do this, we both make good money) and was always overspending, so I consistently paid more than my share for everything. We fixed up his house - largely with my money - up until I bought a house myself Summer 2001 to get my son back near his daddy (5 min. away instead of 25) and cut the driving to school, friends, dad's, etc. that was complicating things. I thought my son would be happier and I didn't know what else to do.

Flash forward to my relationship now with a much YM who I love and who loves me, and you see the anger demon rearing its ugly head again. He spanks our 6 mo. old black lab-retriever mix for anything, believing in "strong discipline" and "spare the rod" and it stresses and upsets me to the max. On bad days (during arguments where below the belt comments come out from both of us at times), he is convinced my son has no respect for me or anyone and needs more discipline, yada yada. He lost his job and did not look for a new one for 2 1/2 mos. this summer, which made me very uncomfortable and resentful.


I got tougher and more vocal and tried to set boundaries and was promised this and that and nothing seemed to budge him until about 2wks. ago, sadly, but so far, so good. This job seems to be a nice fit of small elec. company with better hourly ($15) plus 5% commission after you pass $3k in a week, which he has already done. His motivation is back, he seems to feel better about himself, and he is taking pride in the old work van they are letting him use, etc. He and I worked tohgether to clean it top to bottom (I even armour-alled the black rubber floor in the front!) that the supervisor said it had never looked so good. He has kept it neat and organized and I am very proud. He has worked Sat-Sun the first week, then Sat. this week and says he will continue bec. the money is so good and the work enjoyable (service/repair calls vs. the repetitive "roughing in" elec. work at the last company. He seems to need and enjoy the challenge of diagnosing problems and fixing and being the hero - I can relate! smile. I feel so much better but naturally am guarded bec. it was a tough summer.

But I am rambling...I just wanted to send you my empathy as I am in a similar situation, it seems (uncomfy with the anger, spanking of the pet babies, etc.) and find taht some days it seems too much to bear and I feel I should end things, we are just too different in our philosophies. Then the reality hits: I love this man and we feel we are meant to be on so many levels, and I do not wish to be away from him nor him from me. So back into me the feeelings are stuffed and we do ok until the next incident. The cycle can be exhausting, to me, so I caution you to not let things go too long if it begins to feel like it is taking its toll and you are compromising too much to have too little. Love is all, I tell myself, but "the devil is in the details," the little things are the things that sometimes seem to be able to make or break us and a relationship. I wish you well and appreciate your candor. I learn from each and every thread and post. Thanks for listening.

I am so relieved to be receiving so many fair and insightful posts!:) I was afraid after posting, that it might turn into a witch hunt against Robin, and he'd somewhat deserve it, I mean, I don't condone his behavior! But it hasn't, and I'm grateful, because we are touching on solutions.

Robin has so many wonderful qualities as a person. I am not going to give up on us. Not because of what I have invested, I couldn't care less about that, but because he has given me second chances (and thirds and fourths) when I screwed up, so I'm going to do the same. The kids don't want him to go. They thinnk that our lives overall are better with him here. They don't like when he yells, but they do like when he helps them with homework, plays cards with them, builds bonfires with them, and runs them places when I'm busy.

After thinking it through, I'm thinking that being a stepparent to a 15-year-old boy must be very hard. I'm a stepparent to Robin's 8-year-old boy, and it's hard. And I LOVE kids! But it's still hard. His son does stuff that just pissed me off sometimes, and I haven't always been the best stepmother I could be. It was actually after reading about a lot of the members' experiences as stepchildren, here at this site, that I gained a lot of insight into stepparenting and got closer to Josh. I am so much more fair with him now, and try so hard to be more understanding. Now I am asking this of Robin for my kids.

He's usually patient with the animals, but we recently acquired a 4-month-old Border Collie pup, and while he's been an absolute dream to train (they're such SMART dogs!) he still does a "submissive pee" now and then when he's scared or startled. You can't punish him for that! That just confuses him. I tried to tell Robin that. This dog wants nothing more than to please. He's such a love, he's my baby since Robin won't have one with me. I hate when people are ignorant about the needs of animals.

Robin wants to have his own "handyman" business and be his own boss. I don't blame him. The last job he had was with a big jerk named "Dean", who yelled at him and put him down constantly. I begged Robin not to quit, we were so desperate for the money, but after 2 weeks he said, "I'm going to either leave or end up putting this guy's head through a wall." Dean was so nasty, he actually said to Robin, "I PAY you to yell at you!" I have to confess, if that would have been me, I'd have said, "Honey, there isn't enough money on God's green Earth for you to pay me to yell at me!"

That last job and previous ones similar to it gave Robin cold feet about working for other people. The kind of manual work he does can be done alone, and he can make more money. It's just that even after passing out 500 flyers and getting business cards made up, it's slow to take off...TOO slow! As luck would have it though, some of my cleaning customers are giving him work through this week, probably about $500 worth. He is bidding a room addition too, and I pray he gets it.

On a lighter note, Robin and my son are on much friendlier terms these days. He has been attending the kids' soccer games too, which he normally doesn't do. They love it when he comes. I see hope here. You know, the thing is, I used to think Robin was perfect. I really did. I thought he was the most perfect human being in the world. Now I realize that was quite an expectation to put on someone. I don't think he's perfect anymore. And that's not a bad thing. Maybe now, I'm more willing to see his flaws and deal with them before they get way out of hand. Now I can be in this relationship with eyes wide open, not in some romantic half-sleep, ignoring red flags. All the cards are out on the table.

As things stand, we'll make it through this, but I don't feel so desperate anymore. I love Robin, I still want to spend the rest of my life with him, but if he ever got to the point where I realized this wasn't good for me anymore, or for the kids, I would leave, and life would go on. That's a nice kind of empowerment to have.:)

Hello, again...Just a quick note about my comment about being "heavily invested" in the relationship. My words were not referring to money - money was just a part of it. The big investment was love and time and working so hard to support his/our efforts to beat depression (both) and anger (his). The cycle of hope-disappointment-forgiving-strategizing-trying-failing, etc. tends to create a fast glue-like bond at times bec. we have worked so hard to make things better - that is the big investment, and hope kept me going long after I should have. What made it so hard was feeling like if I had not been with him, I may have been more open to reconciling with my dear ex-husband. Anyway, just wanted to clarify that. Thanks.

Awww, pgato. Don't have second thoughts about your ex-husband. If you had been happy with him, you wouldn't have left and been with someone else. We can all say, "What if?" but the bottom line is, when you're truly happy, you don't go elsewhere.

I often lament the fact that my kids had to grow up without their dad. I've asked myself, "What if I could have put up with him and tried harder, for the kids?" The truth is, I did. He was abusive, verbally, mentally, and physically, and in the end, I had to get out. Could I have done better? Maybe. I didn't have to go out as much as I did, to avoid being around him. I didn't have to cheat on him after I found out he cheated on me. I didn't have to buy into his attempts to provoke a fight. I could have done a million things differently, but the results would have ended up the same. Maybe even sooner, actually. I stayed too long because of the kids. He was so mean, he broke my spirit. After a long, hard road, I got it back. I'll NEVER let anyone break my spirit again.

I have a lot invested in Robin emotionally, but I would still leave if I felt the relationship wasn't working anymore and couldn't be fixed, or if it was damaging to the kids, because after all, they do remain my first priority. Their physical, emotional, and spiritual health is my responsibility.

Anyway, we can't look back on the past. Actually, we can, but only to learn from it. We have to live in the present as much as we can, and create a hopeful future. That's the best we can do. :)

Unemployment IS a real hot button with me because of my second husband.
I had my three older kids when we met, and was a single working mom, very proud of the fact that I could take care of them by myself. Met this guy. Reminded me a lot of my first husband, but without the cocaine, girlfriends and physical abuse. I never, ever, asked him to help me support me or my kids, they were mine, I would do that myself.
Part of his employment problem was that he'd worked road construction for years, and a winter layoff with unemployment was the norm. Made hellacious money when he worked, but from November through March it was unemployment, and odd jobs. I think to him being able to not work for several months a year was what he considered normal. He hurt his shoulder doing a temp job in the winter and wound up not able to go back to road construction.
Vocational Rehabilitation paid for him to go to school, he got a degree in Auto Parts Management, but couldn't find the job he wanted after.
During all this time, I'd been working full time, and a part time job as well, to help him get back on his feet.
Finally he got a job in a factory, making medical supplies, things seemed to settle down finally, he was making a good wage, our insurance with his job was about half what mine at my job was, and better. I agreed to have my tubal reversed, as he promised it was my time to be taken care of, and I could work part time and have this baby. We borrowed nearly 15 thousand dollars for this surgery, which worked, and I had my wonderful daughter. Six months later, he quit. Cold. Said he was tired of it, and didn't like it. Back to working full time, plus two nights a week. I had a kid in college, one graduating from high school, and a baby, and a tumor in my head, and needed surgery, and he quit his job.
Back to my insurance, which was nearly double what his was.
At that point I told him that since he didn't work, no cigarette money was coming out of any money that I made. I'm a Respiratory Therapist, I wasn't using money that I made to buy cigarettes. Of course I was awful for that, but he always seemed to make enough fixing this for someone or that, he could always buy his cigarettes.
He hopped from job to job after that for three or four years, till he got his employment history SO bad that nobody wanted to hire him, and I got more and more resentful.
I said a lot of the same things, he's a nice guy, I don't have to worry about him cheating on me, He never hit me, like my first husband did, it could be a lot worse, he's a good dad. And I got angrier, and tired, working full time, two nights a week on call, and two nights a week on my part time nursing job.
And fibromyalgia from lack of sleep.
He finally, after I had a major temper tantrum and threatened to leave, found a job as a janitor for minimum wage. Five bucks an hour is a lot more than nothing an hour. Plus, it was evenings, so I didn't have to see him much. I told him if he quit, without having another job lined up, not to bother coming home. We weren't getting along well by then, I was an unsupportive biotch, who should understand that he needed to find something he was happy doing. When you're in your early forties, it's time to settle already. My point was he obviously wasn't interested in a career, so find a freakin' job already.
My older daughter was there to watch my baby evenings when I had call, and working and going to school days, and he was able to get her off to school, and be there when she got home from kindergarten.
Then he found his current job, doing what he wanted to do, driving a parts truck around. Very lousy benefits, only makes about 20,000 a year, but he liked it.
For the time being anyway.
I no longer trusted him. I had zero respect for him. Any man who'll let his family struggle for money because its beneath him to work I have no respect for.
And he's also not lazy, he'll bust his butt helping a friend, he does all the yard work, he wasn't just sitting in the recliner watching Oprah, but he wasn't being a partner.
He's actually told me how angry he is at me now, for leaving him, because he can't quit this job now, when he hasn't gotten a raise since he started. Awww.
I left him the house, all my belongings I'd purchased. Even my good cookware when I left. I took my books, pictures, computer, and my daughter.
He was always planning, always scheming as he put it. He put us even further in debt every time he tried some plan to start his own business, which he always got tired of doing.
I'd bailed him out of a DWI, went through treatment with him twice, he'd been sober for years, was finally working again, but I'd simply had enough. There just wasn't enough of me left for him.
I decided if I was going to be responsible for things, it was only going to be for my daughter and I.
I get $125 a month in child support, and the only reason I get that, is the judge refused to grant my divorce unless I accepted some. That's the minimum he'd allow. I've had that thrown in my face, how well I must be living on his child support. Yuh.
Big times. I've never asked him for a dime for anything for her. He's whining right now, cause she told him she wants a Barbie house for her birthday, and it costs $50. He doesn't think he can do that. But he's still buying a carton of cigarettes at nearly $30 a pop every five days. What a guy.
I'll support myself, I'll support my child. I will never again support some man. I've had four kids. Don't need another. I want a partner, that I can trust to be in this with me.
David only makes about half what I do, but he's in the beginning stages of his career, and that's to be expected. He takes care of our money right now, he's better at it than I am, more organized. He works full time, hasn't taken a sick day more than once or twice in the three and a half years since he's been here. When he first came, we thought it was only for a visit, but he wound up staying, and within a few weeks, he was working. Before that, he did all the cooking and child care, he refused to let me just support him. The only time he's been without a job, is for about a month after that nurse made administration choose between her, and him because of us.
During that time, it made him crazy, that I was the only one paying the bills.
I don't expect him, or anyone younger, to earn the wage I do now, I've gone to school twice, and I've been working in healthcare for over twenty years. I'd be a little resentful actually if someone just starting out WAS earning what I earn.
I do, however expect him to do his share, and put forth as much effort as me. I don't want another dependant, I want a partner.
Luckily, David has too much stubborn self respect to allow himself to be considered my boy toy, which is one of his biggest fears.
He says he can't wait till I can retire. I tell him I'll probably still work, he insists only part time, and only if I want. I have my 401K to supplement my social security, and I refuse to allow myself to be dependant on him, or anyone even then.
Here's my big question. If Robin's not working, who's paying his child support? Who's buying his cigarettes? His food? He just doesn't have himself, he has a child he needs to be paying support for, and that, if nothing else, shouldn't be your problem.
I hate to see anyone struggling with money, with another able body in the house. I hate to see anyone working to the point of getting sick, with another able body in the house.
Its one thing, when you are truly a single mom, you do what you have to do, and you should be proud of what you did, your house, your business. But look how close you are coming to losing what you worked so hard for, while you do have another able body in the house.
You shouldn't be worrying about foreclosure while he has the luxury of you paying his way through life.
Nobody can tell you when you've had enough, you'll know. I just hate that you're going through all this.
I really hope he gets himself together, before you wind up so resentful that you can't get the good feelings back.
Its hard to keep love in your heart, when there's no room for anything but sick and tired.
That's just sad, take it from me.

Wow Bella! I have to admit, Robin does possess some of your ex's characteristics. He is ALWAYS scheming to make money, but it hardly ever materializes. The only way he is unlike your ex, is that he really, truly doesn't want me to pay for him. When I go to the store, if he hasn't brought any money in that week, he says, "Dont' buy me anything. I'll get it when I have the money." He smokes cigarettes too. He'll go cold turkey before he'll let me buy him cigarettes. It's unpleasant to watch because he gets crabby, but that's how it is. He doesn't drink very often. He'll smoke a joint with our neighbor now and then, but he never buys that stuff either.

You know, the thing is, if I had the money, I wouldn't mind him being a househusband. He does cook and clean, do the laundry and do all the yardwork. He fixes our vehicles, he fixes anything that breaks in the house, and I have to admit, he's saved me thousands of dollars that way. He's extremely handy. If he worked elsewhere but couldn't fix anything, we'd have spent all that money on someone else coming in to do it.

But the truth is, I don't have the money to support a househusband. I sincerely doubt I ever could.

Robin wants to go back to school, but he can barely read. He's not stupid, he's dyslexic. We don't know the first thing about getting him the help he needs to get past that.

Honestly, I think he became spoiled the three years he worked with me. We worked 4 to 6 hours a day, and for awhile we raked in between $1,000 and $1,200 a week. He's used to making that money and not doing much for it. I never should have suggested that he work with me, but at the time it seemed like a good idea, and I loved working with him. He has decided that housecleaning isn't for him though, and we don't have enough business for him to work with me anyway. He really likes the handyman gig, and the work he has done, my customers are thrilled with. It's just that the work isn't steady. You really have to go out and push, and sell yourself to get that kind of work, and he's not a salesman by any means. He's not good at talking to people.

Now, I could sell him, I'm a great sales person. In fact, the jobs he has now, I got him. I sell, he does the work, I'm okay with that. You're right though Bella, I am resentful that everything I've worked so hard for is now in danger of being lost. I won't pretend that I'm not. There's only so much I can do for him, and the rest he has to push for himself. I haven't however, gotten to the point where I've had enough. Not yet. He's still young, he hasn't been in the workforce all that long, and when I was his age, I had just started back to school myself and had crappy jobs. I had taken a hiatus from working and was in bands for several years.

He's not required to pay child support for his son right now, because we have him a lot and the courts consider it almost joint custody even though it's not. His ex is married now too. Robin supplies Josh with clothing, toys, school supplies, etc. so I think it's pretty much even. Robin does manage to pay for stuff like that, because he does have these jobs crop up. For instance, he made $800 in four days tearing down a barn a few weeks ago, but again, that stuff is sporadic. He has added cistern cleaning to his list of stuff, more business cards, but no one else does that, and he can make $75 an hour doing it. It's an icky job, but he doesn't mind at all. See, he'd rather do that than work for some turd who yells at him all the time.

Truthfully, I think he lacks self-confidence. I think it takes very little to turn Robin off to something. I think that if that Dean guy would have been nice and encouraging to Robin, he would have stayed forever and learned more skills. He just doesn't do well when people treat him like crap. Actually, I don't either. I didn't go back to office work because of that.

I sound like I'm making excuses for him, don't I? *sigh* I guess I'm confused at this point. I'm not ready to throw in the towel, but I don't want things to be unequal either. I CAN'T support him, it's not even an option. Bella, I'm going to read him everything you wrote. Painful as it might be, he has to own what's his. I appreciate your sharing with me.:)

Polly, first of all, Im so happy that you thought things had changed enough that you felt comfortable posting this here. Seeing this posted here felt just like you giving me a nod of approval or something...lol.

I think you have received good advice here..and you pretty much already know how I feel about you and Robin from us talking away from the site. I have to say that I think Robin is truly a wonderful man at heart...and he definitely really loves you and your children.

You two have been under so much stress lately. Different people deal with stress in different ways. When I get too stressed I can get short with my children (not a good trait I know), and I think Robin was doing the same thing. Of course, because these are not his biological children, we tend to view it in a bit of a different light that if we had done the same things ourself. I think that Robin being short with the kids is just a symptom of all the stress you two have been going through for the past few months.

Having said that though, I agree that Robin should never lay a hand on the kids, and that he needs to re-evaluate the way he is communicating with them. As you said, he really never had a good example of a "father" in his life, and it will take some effort on his part to learn the healthy way to communicate what he is expecting from the kids without crossing the line.

In regards to the job issue, wow, this is an issue with so many people who date younger men. I try to look back when I was younger to take into consideration how often I changed jobs and/or careers, and I did go through quite a few. However, because I had children to support, I always had a job. I didnt have a lot of down-time between jobs because I had to support my kids. It was not even a possibility. And I think that maybe that is the point that sometimes needs to be made....

In my household, being without a job just is not an option. I wish I had enough money where my teenagers didn't have to have jobs, or where J could go to school and not have to work. But that is just not the hand that was dealt to me... :( It's just a fact of life....If everyone in this house did not work and pull their weight, we would definitely go without something important..like electricity! lol

J went through the same thing Robin did for a while, where he was without a job and didn't want to accept something that paid less than a certain amount. In the meantime, while he was hunting for said high paying job, the car was about to be repossessed! I felt really torn, because on one hand if the car was repossessed he wouldn't probably would not have been able to look for a job, let alone get back and forth to work if he had one. On the other hand, if I bailed him out or had my parents help bail us out, he would not have learned how important it was for him to keep a job...ANY JOB...to keep some money coming in.

I know a lot of this is different than your situation, but I suppose I was just trying to say that a lot of us deal with the same sort of issues....

pgato and I were in the middle of having a discussion about these issues in PMs, so I am so glad that someone brought it out on the boards where we could hear more about it from everyone.

Unfortunately, my main issue right now is jealousy...After what seemed like a rather long hiatus, jealousy has come back to visit me, and apparently has decided to camp out at my house for an extended stay....I really hate that. :(

Oh Gawd, don't even get me STARTED on jealousy! But you know what? Having him as a bit of a bum has made me less jealous! :D I'm thinkin', "Go ahead, LET someone else support your unemployed ***!":D

I had a jealousy moment today...even though I'm ten times better than when we started out...we were to pass some business cards out to local business around here where people with cisterns (those are people who collect rainwater, don't have city or county water lines to their property) would frequent. One of the stops was my fave restaurant/bar, Les Flick's Homelike Inn in New Baltimore, OH. Well, Robin wanted to go and pass these out by himself, and I was like, "Uh...wait. I'll go with you." Not because I wanted to drink (which of course I did) but because a GORGEOUS barmaid was working at that happy hour. Her name is Tracy, and I've been told by MULTIPLE guys that they want to marry her, although, curiously, they can never tell me WHY! She is PERFECT, could easily be in Playboy, and always wears tight jeans and skimpy tops. Makes you want to be related to the Gotti's, you know what I mean? Just TAKE HER OUT! Anyway, the first time we ever went in there when she was working, we went for lunch, and I thought that it was really odd that ALL MEN were sitting in the dining area where we chose to sit. Initially, I thought, "All right! All men! Good view!" Then Tracy came out to take our order. I instantly lost my appetite, and wanted to crawl under the table for ever even suggesting that my fat *** was hungry! MYSTERY SOLVED!

She is PERFECT, could easily be in Playboy, and always wears tight jeans and skimpy tops. Makes you want to be related to the Gotti's, you know what I mean? Just TAKE HER OUT!

LOL, Oh, Polly, I'm still wiping tears from my eyes after reading this one! You sure crack me up!:))

This reminds me of an Australian comedy skit I saw recently....

A guy takes a girl out on a first date, to a place he claims is his `favourite place in the city'. Anyway, when they arrive, it looks shocking...The tiolets are awful, the fluro lights a flickering and the decor is horrible. He gets the girl a beer; its warm and they both agree it tastes awful!

Anyway, the girl asks her date`so why is this your favourite place...its so ugly, and the beer is so awful'?
To which the guy responds `I just dunno'

Anyway the skit ends with the camera panning out to wide shot of the room. At that point you can see that each every table is occupied by women with enormous breasts! As part of the comedy, the actresses have balloons stuffed down their blouses making them look just enormous and comical.

The girl looks around, and she becomes angry, as she realises why her date loves this awful place so much. After a few seconds she splashes her beer on her date's face, and takes a pin and `pops' the balloon-breasts of one of the other women as she storms out.

Dunno why I though of that:))

Well that's very similar to this situation! I mean, Les Flick's is usually a family atmosphere, and lunchtime is usually a bunch of old ladies with their tuna salad plates and iced teas, followed by a game of bridge. I found out later that they all sit in the OTHER dining area, apparently to avoid Tracy and her boobs! Anyway, that first time, I was sitting there thinking, "This is so odd. It's like Hooters or something...no kids, no old people, just GUYS!" Then of course, Tracy comes out, and that's the last time we ate in that dining area in the daytime!:D

ahahahhaa! Well its only kind of funny. Anyway, after a few drinks, anything female looks damn hot to most guys. I bet when you walked in the room they though your were Claudia Schiffer! :)
I'll bet you could have said that to anyone there and charged them $100 for your autograph! Now I think of it, this could be the answer to all your financial problems!

Awww Bella D, that was so sweet of you!:) But I think a guy would have to be damned near alcohol poisoning before he could mistake ME for Claudia Schiffer! You see, the best way I could make money, is to be paid by putting my clothes BACK ON! They'd say, "Oh God, here's $100, just please put your clothes back on before sex no longer interests us EVER AGAIN!":D

Well, if anyone's interested, here's the latest on my saga. Thought I'd post it here so folks might learn from it. Things were okay for the past two days. Today, after Robin still not getting the call backs to do jobs that we were expecting, I came home to find the cable t.v. disconnected. My cable has not been disconnected in seven years, since I bought this house. We can't get reception out here. It's snow on every channel. Well, I blew a gasket, and of course, blamed it on Robin not bringing in his share. He cried awhile while I looked online for jobs for him. (Key note here: I LOOKED, not him.) When I wrote down the ones that he qualified for, he had an excuse for not pursuing each and every one. Not enough money, too far, didn't think he had the experience, yada, yada, yada.

I got furious! I said, you know what? If your truck won't make it, it'll at least make it to the bus stop and you can ride the damn bus! I DID for YEARS...with a damn baby, now why can't you???

You know what his answer was? "You don't make me feel like it's worth it. You b!tch at me too much." Oh God, puhleeeeze! At that point, I just snapped and said, "If you didn't live here, you'd still need to have a job and pay for things. If you think you can do that better away from here, then by all means, LEAVE!"

He did.

I don't know if he's coming back. I'm sad that I'm missing him, but I'm sadder that he didn't think I was worth it enough to work hard at a job for.

I WILL NOT EVER date a younger man again. I may never date again, but if I do, he will be much closer to my age and be gainfully employed for many years. He will be a believer in monogamy (as Robin was) and kind about my weight fluctuation. He will be an older version of Robin, but with a steady income.

It's a shame that our relationship is ending over money, but it's a basic need to survive, and I simply couldn't carry him. I called his brother's house to say that he was gone and I was worried he'd try to sleep outside tonight, in freezing temps. Robin answered the phone and sounded "smug". I thought "Screw you, pal! I can't believe I wasted so much energy worrying about you!" I'm beginning to feel like he was so good to me because he had it so good here. If you'd have suggested this to me 2 years ago, I wouldn't have believed it, but now, it's pretty obvious. I feel kind of stupid, but at the same time, it takes two to tango, and he was really convincing.

So, dear friends, here's to a new life. I have a lot of issues before me: Scleroderma, being the only adult in the house again, working all the houses by myself (very hard), and getting out of this debt that HE helped to build. Will I make it? OF COURSE! Will it be hard? I guess that depends on me. I will be demanding help from the kids. It's their life too, and they have to help.

Pray for me.:(

Sad.

I'm so sorry.

Peace,
thatgirl

Aww crap, Polly. :( You know, considering all the financial stress the two of you have been under lately...and the toll it took on your for a bit...I just can't understand his attitude about the job situation. I just can't grasp why he would want you to continue to be stressed about money and payments and utilities....on top of everything else you already deal with.

Don't get upset when I say this, because I am not talking about Robin specifically, but I find a man who does not work hard and support his family so unattractive, even when James was the one slacking off. I don't know if that is because I was raised in a family where my father would have worked 2 or 3 jobs if he had to to get the bills paid...and I identify that with "being a good man" or not.

I remember when J and I were at the point you are now, Polly. I told him I didn't care if he had to get a job at freaking McDonalds, he was going to take any job he could find until he found a more suitable one. Okay, now here is the young man part of the story....He went through the paper, and just like Robin he found a reason he could not do most of the jobs in there. The next day he calls...and he says "I think I found a job!". And I say..."Good for you! Where?" And he proceeds to tell me that he found a job as a cashier in an erotic book store/adult gift shop. LMAO! He finds the one job that he KNOWS I wouldn't want him to take. Out of all the fast food places, labor jobs and what have you...a porn shop. Hello?? I tried to keep my cool, but we ended up having an argument...ending with him saying he thought I would be happy he got a job at all. I laugh now when I think back on it.

Okay, so back to you....You know, you do have to put your foot down. I know you all love each other a lot, but you just have to make it clear that hey, your pulling far more than your share here, because I know your working, cleaning the house, doing the cooking, running the kids, etc....and that if he wants to live in the house with you and the kids, he is going to have to pull his weight because you can't do all your doing and pull his weight too. I know in just a minimal amount of time he is going to be calling you up and apologizing....and I think you will accept his apology, but stick to your guns, girl.

Tough love update....James has had the same job now for quite a while, where he works something crazy like 60 hours a week. Its a factory job, but he gets paid well with all the overtime...and we are in a deep financial hole, so thats what he needs to do. He promises he will keep this job until our finances are straightened out, and then when they do, he will keep this until he finds another. There is light at the end of the tunnel!

Im praying for you and Robin, Polly. And your family. ((hugs))

OMG Jo, that is so funny! Thanks for the giggle!:D I'm sure Robin would work at a porn shop for next to nothing, he just never thought of that one! I'm certainly not going to suggest it either!

Sandie, I'm going to paste that mantra on my fridge, I need it right now.

Okay, so he walked in right after I clicked on the "submit" button here. As usual, he was apologetic. I guess his brother pretty much echoed the stuff I said.

This morning he just left to apply for a maintenance position at a retirement community (better than a porn shop, yes? ;)). I know those start out at $10 to $12 an hour, and he really doesn't need to make more than that right now, that's enough to cover his expenses, help pay his portion of the mortgage, etc. and still have some left over.

I know why he's depressed and frustrated. His family won't help him at all. He has a crappy truck that won't run half the time, no money to fix it, no encouragement from his family or financial help, yet, he sees his siblings and step-siblings get help all the time. When I started my business, I had moved back home and had no bills. On top of that, my parents paid for all my supplies and equipment, and the flyers I passed out to get the jobs. I had plenty of help getting started. Robin has none, and I can't help him either. All I can do is encourage him and counteract his negative thinking with positive support and alternative solutions.

I was talking to a friend on the phone last night, and she was telling me that dyslexia WILL be a factor in what he can and cannot do. It probably hinders more opportunities than we think.

Anyway, he's applying for three jobs today. He also has side work lined up, although most of it is unfortunately on the weekend. Things look better. Boy, if we make it through this, I'm going to write a damn book!

btw..MrsHedgehog, I forgot to thank you for being so sweet and saying I am "a catch". ((hugs))

Thats just the nicest thing....You know, sometimes its hard to feel like "a catch" when you are have financial difficulties, kids running around the house screaming, working constant overtime, and what have you.

I think we all are exceptionally intelligent, brave, beautiful women.....

I really admire you and Tim, and they way he had integrated into your family with your children, etc. You two are a great inspiration...

((hugs))

Dear Polly,

I am glad you shared that about the dyslexia component, which is a very important factor in all of this. As you likely know, learning disabilities in adults can impact all sorts of job-related skills, family relationships and other key things that play into life and job satisifaction for the dyslexic and those who love him. Many adults with dyslexia are intelligent, appealing, warm, friendly, funny human beings with very creative problem-solving skills (did you know that some experts believe that Leonardo DaVinci was dyslexic?? I found that exciting. You can read about it on the Davis Dyslexia Group's website here: http://www.dyslexia.com/leonardo.htm ); however, they may feel like a failure, may have low tolerance to frustration, may experience difficulties finding/keeping jobs, and low self-esteem is often a serious factor (after years of sometimes being told they are stupid, slow, incompetent and will "never amt. to anything," for example). The toll this can take on those who love an adult dyslexic can be harsh, and job difficulties are a common problem, from what I have learned. (Good article on loving an adult with dyslexic found here on the Nat'l Center for Learning Disabilities website here: http://www.ld.org/livingwithld/resources_home.cfm#general and http://www.ld.org/livingwithld/adults_home.cfm )

Although I am sure you have acquired quite a bit of knowledge about this on your own (since you are obviously a very intelligent, Internet-saavy, loving woman), I took the liberty of doing a bit of research to see if I could help by finding community resources for adults with learning disabilities (umbrella under which adult dyslexia falls). Perhaps I have found something you have not yet seen that could be helpful to you both. That is my hope at least. I trust this was ok as my email inquiries were very general (asking to be referred to organizations providing free or low cost assistance services for Colerain Twnship, Ohio residents with adult dyslexia). I will tell you if I hear back from anyone. Take care and God bless...pgato888
-------

1) Ohio Hi-Point Career Center
http://www.ohp.k12.oh.us/
(seems to be a good resource for adult workers in Ohio, see below. Says financial aid programs are available:
-Adult Student Services (career assessment, counseling, financial aid, job placement/seeking assistance – call Adult Student Svcs. 937-599-6275)
-Workplace Learning Skills (basic educ’l skills in reading, language, math as related to job site needs, Contact Sharon Halter at 937-599-6275, ext. 406, shalter@ohp.k12.oh.us - email info. request submitted by pgato888, 10/7/04)
-Office Info. Tech. classes
-- For a FREE career assessment and more information contact:
Jay Hunt at (937) 599-6275 ext. 400 jhunt@ohp.k12.oh.us (gen’l email info. request submitted by pgato888, 10/7/04)

2) Pioneer Career and Technology Center (has provided CAREER/TECHNICAL education to over 13,000 high school and adult students in Ohio) http://www.pctc.k12.oh.us/adulted/index.html (adult education page)
http://www.pctc.k12.oh.us/directory/directory.html - Directory of staff direct emails based on subject/training/career area)

3) Ohio Valley Branch
of the International Dyslexia Association - http://www.cincinnatidyslexia.org/ Info. on classes for Ohio adults with learning disabilities, etc.

4) Northern Ohio Branch of International Dyslexia Assoc. (online resource page)
http://www.dyslexia-nohio.org/resources.php

5) Hamilton County Community Mental Health Board (mental health agencies sometimes offer LD testing/assessment/services) http://www.hccmhb.org/contact_us.htm

Oh Pol,

I'm sorry to hear about all the angst. What a drag. I guess our problems don't entirely go away.... they just resurface periodically in different forms.

The problem is that Robin hasn't found his working niche yet - which is far from unusual at 24/25 years of age, but the financial exigencies on the two of you make it hard for him to take the time he probably needs (and craves).

It's really hard when two things that he needs (YOU and time) crash up against each other all the time. It would be alot better if the stress of that conflict didn;t manifest itself in bad behavior from him and that saddens me to hear, but I guess it is human enough.

Since he's so handy with mechanical things and hates the marketing side of things, is there any sort of a scenario where he could "apprentice" with somebody who is already in business for themselves? I'm sure with some appropriate role modeling he could totally figure out how to "sell" his services, it's just really nervewracking and scary to do it by yourself without much experience.

Just a thought ....

OF COURSE, he needs to financially contribute to the household, and my guess would be that he'd feel alot better about himself and the relationship if he did this consistently. It has to be what he WANTS, he just doesn't want to feel endlessly trapped in a dead end job that he hates with a passion. I don't want that, either, so I hear him.

Is there any vocational training in electrical or electronic stuff, plumbing,
wood or metal working, or any other kind of skilled trade that he could do to add some skills to the "handyman" work that he's so good at? Maybe that could result in more money per hour when he does work, or provide a feeling that a less than ideal job isn't necessarily permanent? Sometimes that's all you need to keep you going :>

Well .....no words of wisdom. It's his path and he's got to figure it out. But I know you love each other and I'm sure there's a way, somehow.

Hang in there, sweetie ......

Great post, DS.

Hi Polly! Golly Gosh, girl, what a week you've had! And you've managed to keep your sense of humpour. No wonder everyone loves you:))

Polly, I don't think you really need any advice; you're wise, positive, and you have a knack for sorting things out. But if i may, these thoughts have occurred to me each time the `financial problem demon' has raised in ugly head for you both:

1. Try to have faith that Robin WILL sort out his career....eventually. He'll do it for you and he'll do it for himself too. But its HARD for some people....some people don't do `drone' very easily. And its not always about being `above' hard labour, its typically more about our natural drive as humans to fullfill our potential. Mostly, this is good in the long run becasue we wind up in positions we are suited to and can sustain. But the process of finding our place in teh workforce can be HARD.

I'll bet Robin's inability to provide for your family HURTS him so much. The providing instinct is a deeply ingrained thing for most men and they suffer when they can't fullfil this role. I imagine he feels guilt, and rejection, and failure. This can a have a paralysing effect on some people...they feel a need to just hiibernate and regather strength so they can face the workforce game again. SO much rejection and instabilty. And with it, the fear of losing you and everything he holds dear!

2. Your reminders and occassional moments of extreme frustration don't seem to be helping in the long run. They probably just inflame his sense of guilt. What seems to be happening is that when you become totally overwhelmed by the situation, RObin reacts by taking any old job to make peace with you, but it doesn't last. Its really just a quick fix and not a solution.

3. Sometimes I sense that you are afraid that you are being used by Robin, and this inflames your frustrations badly. Please put these thoughts aside completely, Polly. Robin is there because he LOVES and adores you. These are just OW/YM insecurites talking.

4.I secretly suspect that if you were to completely withhold ANY criticism of Robbin's job status for a sustained amount of time, you will find that he will strive to please you and find a suitable job. You may have to preapred to wait some time, but I beleive it will eventually happen and he will feel grateful to you for withholding criticism (espcially becsue he already knows how you feel)

Anyway, take or leave my advice...like I said I'm sur eyou have the situation under control. I hope that offering my thoughts helps a little...even if they do not really apply.

((HUGS)) What a tough week!

I am so appreciative to you ALL for helping me to figure out this mess! :)

pgato, thank you for the info. I didn't read through it yet, not enough time, but will this weekend. Everything you said about dyslexics describes Robin to a tee. Mrs. Hedgehog and I were just talking yesterday morning about how Robin was put down and called "stupid" by his older brother and parents. He doesn't cry often, but when he does, it's because he's feeling helpless and "stupid". My heart just breaks when I see it. He's actually very intelligent. He can figure out how to fix ANYTHING just by studying it. I'm not exaggerating, he really can!

DS, he has tried to apprentice with people. You know what they do? They only show him enough to get the job done. No one wants to teach him a trade. They all keep him down, because they know that if they teach him too much, he'll go off on his own. That's exactly what has happened on ALL the jobs he's had.

He wants to go to school to learn specific trades, but they all cost, and unless he takes a full-time course for something he really isn't interested in, he can't get a grant or a loan. We can't pay for any of the courses right now.

He has enough tools to at least get a head start on his business. He needs more, but he has enough to start. We've done everything we can to get business, now we just have to sit and wait. Meanwhile, he has applied for other work. Btw, he does clean with me when he's not working. That is a big help and I'm actually going to hate it when I have to do it all by myself again, but it's a necessity.

Amina, thank you so much for sharing your very personal story. I believe Robin can make it, I just think he's frustrated and "lost". It is a big ego slammer for a guy when he can't provide for his family, and I know Robin feels this now. We argued last night when he was making light of the cable t.v. being gone. We can't get reception out here in the sticks, so we literally have no t.v. I felt like that was the last straw. When I met Robin, I had enough money to go out to eat, go to clubs once a week, buy things for myself, and had the cable and internet. We don't go out anymore, I don't ever buy myself anything, and now the cable is gone. I'm like, "I have nothing left...and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!" That wasn't very nice to say, and it was said out of frustration, plus it's not altogether true.

I'm also an impulsive spender. I've learned to curb my spending the last few months, but before that I was bad. Couple an impulsive spender with a guy who is down on his luck, and you get a recipe for disaster! Anyway, I owned up to my part of it this morning. Today is Robin's 26th birthday, and we're trying to make the best of it. I feel so badly that I can't hold a party for him or that we can't at least go out with some friends. He's making the best of it, feeling like he doesn't deserve anything anyway. Birthdays were always a big deal in my house growing up, so I feel a lot worse about it than he does. We'll manage.

So, I've decided I can live without t.v. for awhile. It's just t.v. It's not like Robin cheated on me, or gave me AIDS, or took all our money and fled the country, or wrecked the van, or has a severe drug or alcohol problem (although I may acquire one with no t.v. to watch!:D) so I can live with financial stress. It's tough, but not impossible. He's got a few hundred dollars' worth of work this weekend. That will help. He's trying. I have to recognize that.

It felt great to vent though, and I think it helped me figure out what I was and was not willing to live with. :)

I can definitely sympathize with the no TV thing. When we first moved here, I was shocked to find out we had no reception. And there is no cable available where I live. I thought EVERYONE could get cable television when I lived in the city. Never occured to me they wouldn't want to run line like 20 miles out of their way to hook up my house! lol

So when we first moved here we spent a year without television. The funny thing is, after a short period of adjustment, it wasn't so bad. We did keep Blockbuster in business though. We rented a lot of movies and listened to a LOT of music. Shortly after that, my parents bought us a satellite system. My kids were glued to the television all evening long. Not only my kids, but neighbor kids. Whole living room full of kids with huge eyes and pale faces....staring...at....the...TV. I really regreted getting the satellite.

So, we compromised. We bought a better antennae and a booster, and now we can get the local channels kind of fair. We just dont watch all that much television....I basically just watch the news once in a while.

While Im off on a tangent that really has nothing to do with relationship rough spots...Im going to mention that I think I am going to have to give up my house. :( We heat this house with propane heat, and its a rather large house. With oil prices right now, propane is already up to something like 1.40 a gallon...and they are predicting it may reach 2.00 a gallon. I live in a very old farm house which has been renovated....which is very large. IF propane reaches 2.00 a gallon, it will cost me something like 700 dollars a month to heat my house. (pass out and fall on floor). Im going to try to stick it out this winter, but MY GOD, who could afford that?

Okay, not sure why I posted that, but I HAD to tell someone because it is freaking me out!

Jo, first of all, this is a lil' trick one of our other members imparted to me...if you have no natural gas at all and your house is supplied by electricity for your sole source of energy, you may qualify for a reduction on your electric bill. THEN you can use space heaters. Do you have a wood-burning fireplace? If so, you can use that, and get a second one for the upstairs. My nieghbor uses only the fireplace to heat the whole house. See if you qualify to participate in a reduced rate for heating also. Our gas and electric company calls it "Heatshare". Wouldn't it be funny if you applied for it, and your gas and electric company sent some bum over to your house, and you opened the door, and he was some grimy, smelly, toothless old guy, and you said, "Yes? May I help you?" and he said, "Yeah baby! I'm part of the HEATSHARE program! I'm here to share my body heat with you...keep ya warm, you foxy mama!" :D :D :D

I have oil heat. In order to purchase heat, we have to order a minimum of 125 gallons. It lasts about six weeks. I have to keep the house warm because of my condition. I dress warmly, but it doesn't help. When brisk air is in the house, my Reynaud's Syndrome kicks in and I can't feel my hands or feet at all. It gets so bad I can't walk! I just bought oil a couple of weeks ago, and it was $230 for the 125 gallons. As soon as we can, we will get a fireplace put in.

Robin predicts a really cold winter since we had such a cool, mild summer. I will literally be wearing GLOVES in the house, gloves at all times unless I'm working.

LOL Polly, that would be just my luck. A toothless, grimy, hobo-looking man from Heatshare! lol

Im not eligible for the electric deduction since we use propane for heat. I did check into getting one of those nifty pellet stoves! But, sadly it appears that I can't have a woodstove or a fireplace due to the fact that my insurance won't cover it. There is not a "real" fire department out here, but rather a volunteer fire department, so the insurance will not cover it. And not having insurance isn't an option since I still owe money on the house. The house won't be paid off for another 10 years!. :(

Amina...that is my plan. Im thinking...the best thing I can do is to keep the heat turned pretty low (maybe 55 or 60?) part of the time, and use some a little electric heater in my Dad's room. Then I am going to move all the kids upstairs, as it seems to stay about 10 degrees warmer. Seems silly to have a big house and not be able to use part of it, but I guess you have to do what you have to do, right? And we will see if that cuts the bill enough...It's not like it's a completely humongous house, but its about 2,600 square feet, and I don't see any way to keep it all warm without spending a fortune.

I'll hang in there, and let y'all know how I am doing once the cold weather comes.....Right now its still pretty mild here...50s at night and 70s during the day.

Im really frustrated with the economy right now...paying 2.00 a gallon for gas, and 4 dollars a gallon for milk! YIKES!

Why is milk so expensive there? It's only $2.50 here. it would seem that since you're in the midwest, milk would be cheaper.

Another thing about heat. How much is escaping through your windows? Sometimes an energy company will give you an allowance to get replacement windows. I used to cover mine in plastic in the winter. It's tacky, but it did help keep the heat in. I just hated it that I couldn't see outside. Look for any cracks or openings where heat might be escaping. There's this "foam sealant" you can use to seal stuff up and plaster over it. Your bf might know what I'm talking about. You squirt it in the crack and it expands to fill it up.

I just thought I'd give a little update:

Robin has been kept busy the last two days by a couple of my customers. One even gave him some birthday money! I was like, "You're not that guy's son for God's sake!" and Robin said, "Yeah, but I'm the one up on the roof replacing the shingles, his son isn't!" Robin has handed quite a bit of cash over to me today, and his mood is entirely different. I guess you guys were right. He feels so good about being able to contribute financially, he is just a different person! A couple of other people walked up to him while he was doing the roofing job and asked if he could give them estimates on stuff they needed done. This really looks like it might take off after all. We're both in a much better mood.:) Saturday night...HERE WE COME!

Hubby and I very rarely argue or fight. I think we both really hate conflict. What we have done though, when we do disagree, is basically plead our cases until it becomes clear who needs this more than the other. Does that make sense? There is always one person to whom the outcome is more important, so the other person will give when it become apparent.

Sometimes I give - if it is important to him. Sometimes he gives - if it is important to me.

But most importantly, we really think about how the other person feels before we start to argue at all.