what is wrong with women?!

hello, first off, i'm new to this board. and i would just like to know, what the hell is wrong with women?! women always say that they're looking for a nice guy to go out with. well, i'm a very nice guy, and i've been trying to get a girlfriend for two years now, and guess what? it hasn't worked!! because women don't like nice guys for whatever reason. every single girl i've met has always gone with a 'bad boy' who treats them like garbage. and they complain, but stay with them. i've found out from exspirence that women arn't intrested in dating nice, polite guys like myself, but always date losers and abusers. whould someone please explain all this to me?
and speaking of guys, they upset me too. all these guys walking around following sterotypes. i never had a father or a male authority figure growing up, and i think i'm better off for it. i never had a father feeding me macho garbage growing up. like "now, son. when a woman says 'no', she means 'yes'." i see it all the time. men are stupid for doing it, and women are stupid for buying into it. it pisses me off so much.
i've also been turned down for dates because, get this, they said i was too short. can you believe that? it would be like me not going out with a women because she's to flat chested. it's the same thing. okay, i might be shorter then average, but who cares? i don't. it dosen't bother me if a woman i'm dating is taller. so why should it bother the woman if i'm shorter? BS like this is the reason why i'm going crazy here.
like i said, i've learned that women arn't interested in dating nice guys. seriously, would someone explain what's going on here? why do women constentlly torture themselves by dating all these losers and abusers. i was turned down by a women for a guy who HIT HER. !!!!!! WHAT THE HELL? do women WANT to be abused? sometimes i just get sick of it all. maybe insted of treating women with respect like i've been doing my entire life, maybe i should be an a**hole. women seem to like that better then nice guys.

Ok, wow.. dare I attempt to reply to this? Here goes. First of all, Welcome to Agelesslove, Poet. Secondly.. simma down. :)

I understand your frustration, really I do. I like to think that I'm a pretty good catch here myself, but alas.. I too find that nice gals finish last. What do I do about it? Well, pissing and moaning is not gonna help, though it's nice to vent once in awhile, I suppose. I've found quite a few men who'd rather go out with witches, and drama queens, and women with so much baggage they need a UHaul... so it goes both ways sometimes.

However... the question to ask is not necessarily what the hell is wrong with women? But rather.. what can I do to attract the kind of women I want to be with? I have a tendency to look inward and see what it is that I am doing or not doing. If your attitude is that something is wrong with women.. well, maybe you need to look at that. I think the best way to attract what we want, is to be what we want to attract. Be the kind of person you'd want to be with. Do you really want to be with a woman who prefers to stay with someone who beats her? Do you really want to be with a woman who prefers taller men? Do you really want to be with a woman who wants a "bad boy" and not a nice guy?

Timing is a big part of the picture too. Sometimes we are ready for someone, but they are not. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong situation. I'm trying to suggest here too, that you try to change your perspective a bit. Your post here is very negative, and while I feel for ya, and know where you are coming from, I'd say you have to try to turn it around some. I know it's discouraging at times, but if you put negativity out there, that is what you will get back. I hope I'm making sense.

Maybe you're attracted to the type of women who go for those types of men. Are you trying to be some kind of savior for these women? In my experience most women don't want a man who abuses her, and while some women make bad choices (as do some men - there are some very abusive women out there as well), I believe that most do not. So I'm wondering if there's a reason you are primarily interested in women who are making such poor choices for themselves.

thanks for responding, and i didn't mean to sound angry or negitive in my first post..but you have to understand how frustrating it is. i keep trying, and trying and trying, but i'm not getting anywhere. it's seriously like i'm running on some sort of tredmill. i'm running, but i'm not going anywhere. i'm a sensitive guy, and maybe i get too easily hurt by rejection, but i want to love and be loved.

Well, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Why not take a break from the dating scene and do some introspection to figure out why you're not meeting the women you want to meet, and become more content with yourself so that you'll be in the right frame of mind when you do meet someone special?

And umm...if your first post wasn't meant to sound angry or negative, I'd hate to see what it looks like when you are angry. ;) Like Gen said, take a deep breath and relax. The frame of mind you're in right now surely isn't conducive to meeting the kind of person you probably want.

I'd suggest you quit trying so hard, and focus on learning to be happy in your own company. Love comes along when you're busy doing other things, not when you're vainly running after it with a big neon sign strapped to your chest flashing the words, "I'M SINGLE! I'M SINGLE! PICK ME!"

Where is sally when we need her?:p

As sally would advise, I will so advise you to have a love affair with yourself Poet... get to know yourself and what makes you happy. Being happy with yourself and loving yourself is very essential to being attractive to others...

To answer your question Nessa, all the women who have been giving me trouble have been girls my own age. yes i know i'm young. now, i don't mean to blow my own horn here, but i consider myself pretty mature for my age. that's why i guess i've always been more comfortable talking with women who are older...at least older then myself. i could talk to them about stuff i couldn't with girls my own age. but i've never had a realstionship (at least a romantic one) with an older woman. to answer you question about if i'm depressed...well, i dont' really want to get into all that right now

PoetOfDarkness I feel for you *hug*

Some girls are more into the dangerous types because...well because they are....who cares why.Try not to concern yourself with the whys.

Might I ask..... what 1st attracts you to a girl?

I would think more often then not....the girls who like nice guys are nice themselves and alot of times these girls don't get noticed because they don't stand out.....like the popular girls do.

Also the more mature girls tend to be introspective and sometimes shy.....do you approach these girls?

Don't think you are the only one that feels this way poet.....I guarantee you aren't alone

First of all...you know what? I'd like to give you (big hugs).

You actually sound to me just like someone who has been hurt...and your frustrated, angry and maybe a bit bitter.

I used to be one of those women who liked bad guys...I was married to one for a long time. I have absolutely no clue why I did what I did, because I had plenty of nice guys who were interested. For some reason I was attracted to the bad guys.

I just want you to know...it's not you. It the women. And Pink is right, maybe you are especially attracted to those sort of women. For a long time, my brother was attracted to women who were "victims". They were women who had been abused or raped or what have you, and he was attracted because he wanted to rescue them. Im not saying you the same by any means, but just pointing out that certain men find certain things attractive, and sometimes they don't even realize it.


I know now I wish I could go and take back all those years I wasted...chasing down guys who treated me bad and who didn't even really love me. In my case, I was co-dependent and just kind of generally screwed up over a bad childhood.

Just know its not you, and don't give up on trying to find someone special.

Good luck to you...and welcome to Ageless.

i never really thought of myself as being attracted to one type of woman...then again, i'm really shy, even though i've always been more comfortable around women then i have been around men. since i went back to school a few months ago, i've been more outgoing, allthough nothing i do seems to be working. i personally don't think i'm trying to hard. i defently don't think i'm coming on to thick. you know, sometimes i seriously think that i was just destined to be alone forever, and that i wasn't ment to be loved. i know how that must sound, but sometimes i think it's true. it sure seems like it.

you're 18 poetic....how many years dating expierence do you have under your belt?

There are women here in there 40's and 50's that are still working out the kinks......still being hurt etc.

It's a process that most everyone has to go through.....being hurt and picking yourself back up until finally you find the one thats right for you.....the one that won't hurt you.

In the mean time....find things that make you happy....things that make you a better person or just plain things to keep yourself busy.

*hugs*

you know, i wish it were that cut and dry.

that's the thing. i'm always getting hurt, and i'm falling down. and i'm really starting to think that maybe it's not worth getting back up. that maybe i should just stay down. it'd be a lot easier that way.

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
[Byou know, sometimes i seriously think that i was just destined to be alone forever, and that i wasn't ment to be loved. i know how that must sound, but sometimes i think it's true. it sure seems like it. [/B]

That's what my man said to me last year :) when he was 18. And this year, we decided to be together. Someone mentioned timing, above, and I agree.

Sometimes we just have to be patient and turn off the the glowing advertising sandwich board we walk around with and wait and see. And in the meantime, to spend time doing other things that makes us happy with friends, family or alone.

I hope you find what you are looking for within yourself and within your peers. And if you don't, keep an open mind, an open heart and you may find that cupid finds you yet.

...there's a poetry section on this site? i must've missed that. i'm not sure if i'd wanna show you guys my work...i don't know. i guess if you'd wanna see it. it's pretty stupid though

Originally posted by MrsJonesolet
Some girls are more into the dangerous types because...well because they are....who cares why.Try not to concern yourself with the whys.

Might I ask..... what 1st attracts you to a girl?

I would think more often then not....the girls who like nice guys are nice themselves and alot of times these girls don't get noticed because they don't stand out.....like the popular girls do.

Also the more mature girls tend to be introspective and sometimes shy.....do you approach these girls?


Excellent, excellent, excellent!

everyone feels that way at one time or another Poet but things change......things get better.I've been there many times in my life.....I've been hurt very deeply by my family,my so called friends AND relationships.

If you are feeling so bad you don't want to go on....you need to talk to someone Poet.

Depression makes you lose sight of hope but you can find it again with help.

Is there anyone you can talk to......a counceler at school maybe?

That would be the best advice I can give you hun *hug*

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
know, sometimes i seriously think that i was just destined to be alone forever, and that i wasn't ment to be loved. i know how that must sound, but sometimes i think it's true. it sure seems like it.

Poet ~

Tell you what, go with this, and love will find you.

Okay, I'm trying to make a light of things. Only because I have thought this more than once in my life. And I not only thought it but had just about committed myself to it last May, right before I met my boyfriend.


Love finds you when you least expect it.

Love finds it when you're not looking for it.

Love even finds you when you're doing your best to avoid it.


I really like Mrs. Jonesolet's thoughts about maybe you're not seeing the nice girls, you know? Maybe the girls who like the bad boys have a little edge themselves, and maybe that attracts you to them.

I've spent time with 'bad boys'. But my current boyfriend, and hopefully my last one, is as nice and sweet as can be. He treats me great, and I'm happy, happy, happy.

Keep up the niceness. I guarantee it will pay off.

I'm 45 and like Mrs J said, I'm still trying to sort out the good guys from the bad guys...but you know what I have found, that even the good guys have some hidden agenda...so I'm just as cautious with them.

In the last 10 months I have dated quite abit and for me it all comes down to when I am going to open my legs not because they like me, but because after a week or so its should be the next phase of the relationship and they don't call me back because I'm not into casual sex and that goes for the good guys and the bad.

So yes, I get angry sometimes, and its ok to get angry and upset and to vent... had a crying fit the other night, (besides dumping a guy again, had root canal), it helps me in healing myself and moving on. It helps me in washing out all the crap and muck I have in my head and seeing clearer, and it helps me to go back and search all over again. I refuse to give up hope...I've learn patience with myself as I learn to trust, and patience with others whose concerns and questions and choices I can't control and may cause and deepen my pain.

If the solutions to our problems were simple, we would not have to stretch our souls to find faith and hope, we would not have to yearn. The self pity party is not rewarding, its the easy way out for your feelings, and it gives that "dang little demon of discouragement" a boost up on your self confidence. Knock him off right now and make a choice to give yourself unconditional love. Compare to me, you're about to embark on a future full of wonder and hope and life as you want it...you can choose to spent it with that demon on your shoulder, or you can choose to spent it loving yourself and not settling for anything less then you deserve.

Paris

i guess if you guys wanna read some of my poetry, i guess i'll post it. but i'd have to edit it, cause it's...colorful. plus, it's not very good. it's also pretty morbid...i hope i don't get in trouble for posting it.

Hi Poet,
Reading your posts, I have some questions. What attracts you to a girl? Maybe you could give us an example of a relationship you had that went bad and what happened? When you say you get knocked down, what do you mean? I mean is is after you have been going with someone for a while, or right off the bat when you first ask them out?
Just thinking a little more insight might help to see your situation better.
Other than that I agree with whats been said already, and I would love to read some of your poetry if you feel like posting any. Hope you do. . :D BIG HUGS and Welcome. I hope you stick around. Its a good place to come to just talk, vent, have a laugh, meet some really cool people, get some ideas, and some good advice or suggestions, etc.

Poet,
I've been where you are and I share the sentiment. The ladies on ageless are right in two important ways.

1. Do look at yourself and say, "Would I go out with me?" I did that and saw that I needed to do a number of things. I had Lasik done, no more glasses. I bought a weight bench and weights and started toning up. Most men and women like someone who is in shape. Not perfect in a physical sense, but someone who appears to care about themselves. I started taking NO2 and creatine as well. Finally, I am two weeks away from completing four months with braces. Straight teeth!

2. Look at who you're attracted to. Being the knight on a white horse for women who are into bad boys does not work for all the reasons given by the ladies up to this point. Think about what your interests are, such as poetry. Find someone who is interested in the same thing, but not someone who needs to be 'rescued'. Someone who is generally happy with who they are and shares your interests.

Well, I'm certainly no expert, but that's where I'm at today.

Good points, Found. I'd make sure that internal improvements are part of the process as well, though. While looks might attract the right person, it's personality that keeps them.

Ok, the folks here are suggesting quite rightly that you look at yourself, Poet. Someone here said "it's not you, it's the women," but...you know, when I hear "nice guys" throw (all) "women" into a bucket and hose them down, I see trouble. What is this, good cop bad cop?

See, I have known guys who went on and on about how they were "nice guys" but they were NOT. Maybe their surface actions were "nice" but their attitudes weren't. They had chips on their shoulder and expected to lose in relationships. They went around thinking women owed them something because they "always" got hurt, and made every woman prove endlessly that she loved them, and made it really difficult for her to do so because they believed they were destined somehow to lose out (just like you said about yourself). It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. It was never, ever about "how well can I treat this lovely woman" but "what can this girl do for me, how can I get one who raises my self-esteem?" What's nice about that? It's unfair to expect a girl to do the work of turning you into a loving person because of who -she- is, and that's what I've seen some of these self-styled "nice guys" try to do. Becoming a loving person is -your- job.

If you are coming to everything in life through a lens of expecting things to go badly and through negativity, that's what will come back to you. In the state you're in right now I would say you're not ready for a relationship. So stop worrying about what you can get out of being in one, if you are, and be someone a nice girl would want to be with, like the ladies and gents here are saying. (Not in ways that are calculated just to "impress" people though, that's just marketing and is eventually seen through.)

Good luck.

I agree with all the advice the lovely ladies (and lovely gent too ;)) have given you so far.

Spend some time examining the ladies that you are attracted to... what about them attracts you...

I disagree with the premise that all women want a bad boy. Its simply not true. Some women want a bad boy and maybe its more accurate to say that lots of women (particularly at younger times of their lives) go through a phase where they want a bad boy. I think the predominantly, later in life, most women want a nice guy!

I am 36 and my b/f is 19. We met and fell in love when he was 18. Long story and been told sooooooooooo many times any random poster here could likely fill in the details so I'll abstain heh. At any rate, he's most definately a nice guy. He's short... shooooooooooort... he's young looking... I'd say 14ish on a good day ;)... but I adore the hell out of him. Oh yea, nice guys do finish best!

i honestly don't think i'm trying to be a "savior" to this girls. maybe it's just the recent luck i've had...maybe it'll turn around. i've only had bad luck for the past 18 years.

physically, i think i'm allright. i'm 5'4", 125lbs. most of it muscle. (i get tested for body fat, and apparetnly i only have 6% body fat) i know i'm a little on the short side...and as i said in my first post, i've been turned down by girls because they said i was too short. does any of you ladies every turn down a guy because he was 'too short'?

i've been told by many people that if i always think bad things will happen, they will. it's just hard to think positive when you're in a postion like mine.

oh yeah, i posted a poem in the poetry/literature section. go check it out if you want!

Poet you are exactly built as Smiwi. He is 5' 5" and weighed 120 when we met. I think he's bulked up to 130 now. :D

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
i honestly don't think i'm trying to be a "savior" to this girls. maybe it's just the recent luck i've had...maybe it'll turn around. i've only had bad luck for the past 18 years.

physically, i think i'm allright. i'm 5'4", 125lbs. most of it muscle. (i get tested for body fat, and apparetnly i only have 6% body fat) i know i'm a little on the short side...and as i said in my first post, i've been turned down by girls because they said i was too short. does any of you ladies every turn down a guy because he was 'too short'?

i've been told by many people that if i always think bad things will happen, they will. it's just hard to think positive when you're in a postion like mine.

oh yeah, i posted a poem in the poetry/literature section. go check it out if you want!

PoD,

May I give you a little more masculine advice, now that the ladies have had their say?

First the bad news: From what you've written, your height is definitely a disadvantage with many women, assuming you live in the USA. (If you're in China or Korea, it's a whole different thing :D).

Now the good news is you CAN overcome that superficial disadvantage by stressing your other more advantageous traits.

For example, your writing might be an asset. If you decide that it is, you might want to clean up your English grammar and spelling; for some ladies, an email message riddled with mistakes is a turn off; it makes them question the intelligence of the sender.

Maybe you're a smooth dancer or witty conversationalist. I don't know what's great about you, but try to hype up what you're best at.

Also, keep in mind that if you're sensitive and thoughtful, you need to somehow find like-minded women. Bars, taverns, dorm parties and discos are the last places I'd be looking. On the other hand, I think that Agelesslove is a good place to start. ;)

One useful tool might be finding a way to disqualify women who are not sensitive or thoughtful or who lack whatever quality is of prime importance to you. Maybe when evaluating a lady you've just met, you can ask a question or two about literature, poetry or some other key subject and wait for the right response. When it fails to arrive, you'll know it's just about time to move on. :D

Just a few thoughts that may or may not help.

Good Luck!

Slightly different perspective here, maybe? I was having a nice IM chat with my girlfriend (18) who use to be my neighbor and co-worker, both. She has the tendency to attract the "bad guys" all the time. Actually, since I met her at 13, the girl hasn't had one "good" guy even so much as look slantwise at her. She's 5'8", 135lbs, big breasted, exotic looking (she actually looks alot like Selma Hyack) and an amazing young woman. But, guys look at her, see her rack and assume she's a sl*t. :o Or assume she would never, ever possibly go out with him. The only guys who DO ask her out just want a free lay and to be on their way. They treat her like dirt, but that's the only kind of guy who EVER asks her out.

I've tried to counsel her that any guy who asks her out at this point fits a particular pattern and she should simply say no, and be the one to do the "asking" of her friends... the guys who have the decency to take the "wait and learn" approach. Honestly, I don't know what she'll do. Right now she's dating this really controlling, jealous butthead and doesn't know how to get out of the situation.

My point here, really, is that if you make friends with women and don't assume that they're going to reject you just because the only kind of guy who asks them out are scum, then you might get somewhere.

It's all a crap shoot anyway... Being 18 is depressing enough. In the immortal wisdom of my Gram, I say.... "this too shall pass..."

~phosphorescent

Oh boy, the physical factors. To fos: yeah, I have noted on these boards before that, ironically enough, it is often the most beautiful women that get treated the WORST. Yet society is always telling us we should look sexy and model-like. I think looking really good attracts more bad behavior from guys than good, and that is so depressing!! Damned if you do, damned if you don't eh? To those guys, a girl is just a trophy. It's absolutely disgusting that our society has made little progress in this area.

Ok....as to the height thing (and Harrison you've written a really good post, let's just say I respect that one more than some others you've made on these boards ;)), if you are a non-tall guy you need to not waste your time on girls who are that SUPERFICIAL.

My honey is 5'6". He has had nooo trouble attracting women taller than himself or otherwise, but then....he's very good looking. :D *ahem* But, he wouldn't be keeping this fantastic lady (ME) unless he was also a phenomenal guy of course, and he is a lot of fun to be around and is very well liked. Yes, he's still taller than I am at about 5'2", but not much! I absolutely LOVE being just about eye to eye with my little man, he fits sooo right for me. So there are those of us who actually appreciate a non-tall man. :D

Young girls often choose guys based on stereotypes (young men do the same!!!) because they don't have experience yet, so you'll find some prejudices in that age range until they are replaced with facts. You want to stop focusing on superficial physical stuff and not bother with those who only pick people based on the body you happen to have.

when it comes to women (or people in general for that matter) i try not to assume things...i don't know if people assume things about me though.

about your friend fos4snt, she sounds like a nice person, and that's what i mean. i don't know why women keep torturing themsevles by dating guys like that, while guys like myself are stuck with nothing. that's what upsets me.

i've tottally noticed that the more beautiful a women is, the worse men she attracts. because guys like that are superficial and only want a quick lay, or what have you. but about the height thing, that also is superfical. if a women dumps me because i'm to short, well like i said in my first post, that'd be like me dumping a women because she was to flat chested. it's the same thing

another thing that upsets me is that guys are exspected to be the ones who approch the women to go out on a date. why can't the women be the ones who approch the ment to go out on a date? i've been told it's because it's what 'society exspects'. ::rolls eyes:: people shouldn't always have to do what society wants them to do.
in fact, i say to hell with society!

as for dating people on this board...well, i don't think any older ladies live near me :( i don't mean to sound superfical, but i've always been more attracted to older women, then to girls my age. in fact, the best times and conversations i've had in my life have been with women well into there 20's, and 30's. of course, nothing romantic ever came out of it. probably cause i was 14 and 15 at the time. :(

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
about your friend fos4snt, she sounds like a nice person, and that's what i mean. i don't know why women keep torturing themsevles by dating guys like that, while guys like myself are stuck with nothing. that's what upsets me.

She's not torturing herself, PoD. The kinds of guys who DO ask her out are the kinds of guys who just want to her as a trophy or whatever. And yeah, she falls for all the romanticising they provide to get her into bed. Maybe that's the problem. The "GOOD" guys look at her an assume she's so beautiful she could have anyone, therefore they never ASK, because she's got all these good looking LOSERS around her using her. She's horribly frustrated about the whole situation and doesn't know what to do. How can she even be interested in the "good" guys when they are so intimidated by her they don't even think they can be her friend, let alone have half a hope of dating her?

Sure, I can say to her... go out, make friends, find the ONE guy who doesn't ask you out and ask HIM. LOL. I've said just that to her! But, women WANT to be woo'ed. We want to be pursued... so, if you're the "good" guy and really want one of these women, don't let the fact that all these taller, goodlooking LOSER guys are hanging all over her... you know what they want. You know you don't JUST want that. Prove it.

~phos

1) Harrison: Terrific post!!!!

2) Simply because a woman doesn't live near you, doesn't actually mean she's not an option for you. In fact, a lil online relationship might just be the best thing for you. It allows you to be free-er with your thoughts and might allow some of those great advantageous, to which Harrison referred, to shine through. It might increase your confidence as well because your physical attributes will be the last thing considered and *not* the first!

3) I agree with Fos here. Most ladies aren't going to ask you out... I have on occassion, but its fairly rare. Waiting for that will leave you home alone a lot.

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
....another thing that upsets me is that guys are exspected to be the ones who approch the women to go out on a date. why can't the women be the ones who approch the ment to go out on a date? i've been told it's because it's what 'society exspects'. people shouldn't always have to do what society wants them to do.
in fact, i say to hell with society!

as for dating people on this board...well, i don't think any older ladies live near me :( i don't mean to sound superfical, but i've always been more attracted to older women, then to girls my age. in fact, the best times and conversations i've had in my life have been with women well into there 20's, and 30's. of course, nothing romantic ever came out of it. probably cause i was 14 and 15 at the time.

Poet,

I agree with Phos4snt: Women want to be pursued, and wooed.
It's a drag for the guy, but that's the way our culture is organized. It pays homage to male aggression and assertiveness.

Even at the minor level, ya gotta be aggressive with the ladies. This is one area where you can't say "To hell with society."

It is easy and could be as simple and casual as saying to your 32 y/o coworker: "Hey Debbie, I'm going to grab some coffee, wanna come?" Start off with the nicest least aggressive way to get her company, and you're on your way.

It's rough being an 18 y/o (the hardest part for me was lack of $$), but you've come to a good place for advice. You'll get tons of good advice about what does and doesn't work.

Keep asking questions like you are, and remember: there are ALWAYS older ladies living near you. Ya just gotta find out where they are. ;) They will almost certainly treat you SOOO MUCH BETTER than the little "teen queens" you're used to. :D

i still think it's incredibly stupid. i'd have a lot more respect for a women if she came up to me asked me out. i'd be impressed, and i'd really like it. so, i still think it's really stupid that a guy has to be the one to ask out. that's just my opinon though.

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
i still think it's incredibly stupid. i'd have a lot more respect for a women if she came up to me asked me out. i'd be impressed, and i'd really like it. so, i still think it's really stupid that a guy has to be the one to ask out. that's just my opinon though.

I understand perfectly. But, at 18, that attitude is not likely to help you.

I've had a few ladies approach me, and basically ask me out. Believe me, it was nice. Quite flattering.

But the sweetest older ladies I encountered (including my lovely wife) were the ones for whom I had to turn on the ol' Male Aggression. :D

I assume the same will apply to you.

one thing is that i never had a male autority figure (i.e. father) growing up. i was raised only by my mother. i don't know a whole lot about 'male aggresion' and personaly, i'd rather not. i'm also not very mascaline, which i'm perfectly fine with. like i also said in my first post, i didn't have a father growing up, and i think i'm better off for it. i never had a dad feeding me macho sterotypes. but i think i'm naturally like this.

i tottally wasn't trying to generalize. i'm sorry if it came out that way. i know that all women arn't like this. trust me, i do. like i said, i don't try to judge people. i don't try to sterotype. but from my exspierence, this is how it mostly is. maybe it's just the girls who go to my school? i don't know. all i know is, sometimes i just get so sick of trying. i get sick of being nice to everyone, and not get anything in return. it's like a vending machine. where i put a quater in, but dont' get anything for it. i'm not trying to generalize, but from my expierence in life...that's how it is. at least for me. maybe i am just destined to be alone.

oh, i posted another poem i wrote in the poetry/literature section (where else? lol) go and read it if you dare!! muahahahaha!! :D

*sigh*

Harrison, ya just went down a point...

I think you are confusing "aggression" with "assertion" dear. I for one *hate* aggressive men. Macho is OUT. Pushy is a turnoff.

On a scale from doormat = 1 to aggressive/macho = 10, I prefer guys about 5.5. A man like that knows when to speak up and when to shut up. He knows when to steer things and when to back the heck off. While we're busy explaining that stereotypes suck, let's put "be aggressive with women" to rest too. :rolleyes:

[just saw Poet's last post while composing this]

OMG....my theorized "Vending Machine" view of women CONFIRMED! Dude...we are NOT vending machines!! Did I not post above that you think women OWE you something? There it is right there. This is one thing that will doom you to failure with any quality woman. It is THAT which will doom you to be alone. Better change that viewpoint mister.

Originally posted by GoldieCat
*sigh*
OMG....my theorized "Vending Machine" view of women CONFIRMED! Dude...we are NOT vending machines!! Did I not post above that you think women OWE you something? There it is right there. This is one thing that will doom you to failure with any quality woman. It is THAT which will doom you to be alone. Better change that viewpoint mister.

okay, that was tottally NOT how i ment it. i was comparing LIFE to a vending machine, NOT women...guess i gotta work on my metaphores...well, that'd be a simile, because i used the word "like"

Poet.. have you never just done something for someone out of the goodness of your heart? Because at the time the giving felt better than the getting? With no expectation of a return on your deposit? I'm sure you have. Life is not always like a vending machine. But somehow it all seems to balance out in the end. :)

i alway try to do things out of the goodness of my heart. but you have to understand how frustrating it is. it seems like no one appreciates it...it just seems like no one cares.

and just for the record. i have the absolutle top respect for women. my mother made sure of that, trust me.

::sigh:: sometimes life just seems so pointless and futile. i think "why am i even alive" i think about suicide a lot. ever since i was 12, i always thought about killing myself. you know, just getting it over with. but i've never been brave enough to acutally do anything. sometimes, i really wish i was.

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
::sigh:: sometimes life just seems so pointless and futile. i think "why am i even alive" i think about suicide a lot. ever since i was 12, i always thought about killing myself. you know, just getting it over with. but i've never been brave enough to acutally do anything. sometimes, i really wish i was.

Poet, I have to admit I haven't read the entire thread, but when I saw this post, I felt I need to encourage you to get some help. Call a suicide prevention hotline. Reach out to someone who can help you. Maybe you are suffering from depression. I truly do hope that you can get to a point where you are less preoccupied with thoughts of suicide. Nothing is worth losing your life over.

About trying to find a woman who will be interested, well... please don't base your whole opinion on women upon how some high school girls have treated you. You will find that women mature as they get older, just as you will. In fact, when I was 18, I had only dated a couple of times before I settled into a relationship when I got to college. I can count on one hand the number of relationships I've had as a grownup since college.

And, that stuff about nice guys finish last is hogwash. In my experience, those of us who do not put ourselves and our needs first tend to attract those who do not treat us as well. In other words, if I had had more self-respect over the years, I would never have settled for the two men I chose as ex-husbands. We ourselves are responsible for the choices in people that we want to be with. We can't put all the blame upon them.

I hope this makes sense. I'm tired and rambling. But, I am very concerned about your thoughts of suicide. If you want to talk to someone privately, you can PM me and I'd be happy to listen.

i feel like that no one will understand me. i feel like i'm alone. i've always been alone. no one has ever cared, or will ever care about me. trust me on this one. i was destined to be alone. forever.

a counselor? please, that's just what i need. some arrogent shrink telling me how i should live my life when they can't even run theirs.

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
. . . physically, i think i'm allright. i'm 5'4", 125lbs. most of it muscle. (i get tested for body fat, and apparetnly i only have 6% body fat) i know i'm a little on the short side...and as i said in my first post, i've been turned down by girls because they said i was too short. does any of you ladies every turn down a guy because he was 'too short'?

Note on Physicality:

Hey brutha', let's not give up on yourself. I used to be in the same shoes you are in. When I was 18 and left for Marine Corps boot camp, I was 5'6" and 140 lbs. Three months later after graduation, I was 156 lbs.!

None of the chickies wanted me and I got used to rejection. But ya' know what, I said, "SCREW 'EM! I'm gonna better myself and LOOK the best I can be!" Guess what - I had a late growth spurt at 21-22 yrs old and now at reaching almost 5'9" and tippin' the scales at 190 lbs (I was 165 when I met my lady in March '03), I look better than ever! And still GROWING!!!

Now I get looks from people, younger and older, and they say, "Man he's changed! WOW!" I got in touch with my physical self and progressed positively from there. And now, I reap the rewards of a better body, better looks, a greater and healthy mind, and a BEAUTIFUL WOMAN!

Look brutha, you're only 18 and you're still gonna grow so don't worry about it. You say you can't get the women right now, so what! Go to the gym and start hittin' the weights, eat what you can and take care of your physical as well as your mental self right now. There's a woman out there for ya' but never RUSH to find her. Just let it happen.

I've been exactly where you are and know exactly how you feel. YOU CAN AND WILL OVERCOME IT OKAY!!!

And to all those freakin' women that tell you you're too short or whatever or need some dude over 6 foot, tell them to "F*** OFF!" Hey, DYNAMITE, comes in small packages and they just can't handle the outblast! You don't need them anyway. When you find your woman, she's gonna accept you for WHO YOU ARE and that's THAT! She's gonna love ya' no matter what you look like and she's gonna stand by your side, k.

Right now, you need to focus on yourself, get a "NO QUIT" attitude, read some literature on relationships, stay active, go to the gym, beef up and look pretty! YOU CAN DO IT!!!

We have a motto in the Marine Corps that states, "That which can not destroy you only makes you stronger!" BELIEVE IT BRO!!!

Don't get any negative attitudes towards women and yourself, 'cause right now you're "livin' and learnin'."

I could go on all day son so if you need any more advice or someone to talk to you private message me okay brutha'.

Now calm down, take a deep breath, and think POSITIVE!

That... Joe... was a simply amazing post. LISTEN TO HIM PoD. Listen hard, cuz Joe KNOWZ what he's talkin' about!
~phos

P.S. As for "no one caring" about you... hello. Seems to me lotsa people are showing that they "care" by taking time to talk to you right now... :D ((((HUGS))))

Originally posted by fos4snt
That... Joe... was a simply amazing post. LISTEN TO HIM PoD. Listen hard, cuz Joe KNOWZ what he's talkin' about!

Thanks! :)

P.S. As for "no one caring" about you... hello. Seems to me lotsa people are showing that they "care" by taking time to talk to you right now... :D ((((HUGS))))

EXACTLY!!!

you know, sometimes i seriously think that i was just destined to be alone forever, and that i wasn't ment to be loved. i know how that must sound, but sometimes i think it's true. it sure seems like it.

I almost cried when I read that. I don't have any answers or miraculous solutions because most times I feel this exact same way myself.

But I don't hold it against the male population, I love men. Most times instead of asking what's wrong with men, I ask myself what's wrong with me. Like the women you describe, I always seem to make bad choices. After my marriage, I had two long term relationships, and then two failed attempts with VYM. Sometimes it seems that every man I've ever been with cheats. Why, I don't know... I'm loving, sexual, I work, I can cook, when I'm in love, my man is the center of my universe. I have still yet to find the one that will love me back the same way.

Sometimes I think that maybe it's just all a fairy tale that will never come true. But then I come here and read the love stories of some of the members and I know that it does happen. So, I keep believing.

Not so long ago, it was devastating to me not to be in a relationship. Maybe because I'm a Libra if you believe in that stuff, maybe I'm a bit codependant. But after my last dream came to an end, I found myself not caring as much if I was single or in a relationship. I've found other things to obsess over to occupy my time. I don't go out much because that was never my thing anyway. I'm more into doing things on the internet. So I have my circle of friends there, we play an MMPORPG, voice chat nightly, and it fills the gap for now.

So hang in there Poet, listen to the advice being offered and choose what's right for you. Relax, be yourself, be comfortable with yourself, and just live one day at a time. Believe me, I know, you'll go crazy if you just mope about looking ahead into what you think will be a lifetime of loneliness. You'll attract more women with a smile than you will a frown.

Don't worry about tommorrrow, just get through today.


Here's a little piece I wrote several years ago that sort of fits here:


Mistress of the darkness,
Lurking in the shadows...
Emptiness aches from deep inside.
She roams through the night
In a never ending quest,
Searching the hearts and souls
Of those that pass by her unknowingly,
As they go about their lives.

An eternity of searching...
Searching for that special something
That always seems to slip from her grasp.
Searching for a kindred spirit
That knows her pain from within,
Yet has the innocence to believe, to hope.
Until at last twin souls meet
And make each other whole.

::sigh:: ...it just seems so hopeless sometimes. like how everything always has to be a uphill battle. know what i mean?

i was talking to a counselor one time (he was a cool one, they pretty rare) and i told him that i wish i had the balls to kill myself. and he told me "do you think it takes balls to want to kill yourself and do it? it takes balls to want to kill yourself and not do it!" i know what he was saying made sence...but i can't deny what i feel a lot of the time. and a lot of the time, i do think about suicide. unless you've been there, you really wouldn't understand. also...when you're upset..it seems like everyone's getting everything they want. it seems like everyone's life is great except yours

since you were talking about how you were a Libra Flytrapp, i'll mention that i'm a Cancer...i do believe in astrology, because i fit the Cancer profile right down to a 'T'. it's a little creepy actually. go read about it in some astrology books.

Excellent motivational post Joe!

Poet~

I read your poems and commented on them in the poetry section... very impressive.

You are not the first, nor will you be the last, to feel like their life is nothing and to contemplate suicide...as I mentioned on one of your poem threads, my daughter, who is 16 has been going through some really rough times as well.

She has had thoughts of suicide and we have been through a lot of rough stuff with her. She is in counseling and she also now takes an anti-depressant. If you have never been on one, perhaps you should talk to your Dr. regarding it.

My daughter has been on them before but went off of them. Just last week I took her to the Dr. and he put her on a new one, so far...so good.

He said that when you are depressed, sad, etc. you use up your supply of seratonin, the chemical in your brain that makes you feel happy or on an even keel. These anti-depressants help to restore your seratonin. I am not really one who likes the idea of my child being medicated but I see a huge difference in her.

My daughter has never been a really cheerful person, she has always been somewhat negative and felt like her life was rotten.

She has a lot of anger in regards to her Father that was never there for her when she was younger. That could be one of the causes of your depression as well, the fact that your Father was not there for you.

One of the things my daughter has been dealing with in the last couple of months is the death of one of her friend's by suicide.

Let me tell you Poet, that is not the answer. Just yesterday, she and I went to his grave and it is so incredibly sad to see memoirs of him, notes that people have written, pictures, etc. He was only 15 and he had been a champion boxer, had been doing it for 6 years and he had a lot going for him. It has had a devastating impact on his family and friends.

I know you are in pain, please just keep talking to people, try to go to counseling if possible... also talk to your Dr. about what I said, ok?

(((hugs)))

*sigh*

Harrison, ya just went down a point...

I think you are confusing "aggression" with "assertion" dear. I for one *hate* aggressive men. Macho is OUT. Pushy is a turnoff...

-- Goldiecat

Try to be expansive in your outlook, Goldiecat. You are one of many millions of women in the USA.

* "Aggression" to one woman may resemble "assertive" to another.

* If aggression and "Macho" were a total turnoff, NBA and NFL jocks wouldn't have a steady supply of eager groupies waiting for them at hotels all across the USA, would they? Obviously, many, many women are attracted to the rituals and substance of testosterone-charged machismo and aggression.

However when I spoke to Poet about turning on "Male Aggression," all I really meant was taking the initiative in flirting, making advances, and, pursuing sex. I'd like to think that most Agelesslove ladies are okay with that.

My limited experience is that the male has to be the one to:

- ask for the phone number

- ask for the date & pick the restaurant

- initiate the kissing and start the petting

- remove the brassiere.... :D

and so on. Maybe all of the above is simply being "assertive," which is fine with me.

May I have my point back, please? ;)

i'm sorry to hear about what happend to your daughters friend. i hope his family is doing allright. even though i believe that everyone has the right to die.

i was put on an anti-depressent about two years ago. i rarely took it while i was on it. i flat out refused to take them. i don't 'believe' in taking anti-depressents. i believe that if i'm going to get passed this, then i'm going to do it with out the help of "happy pills"

they made me very tired. while i was on them, i slept about 12-16 hours of the day. they also drained my creativity. i HATED that. so i stopped taking them

about 4 months after i was put on them, another doctor took me off. he said that i didn't need them. i didn't really care. i wasn't going to take them anyway.

deep down inside, i know you all care. why would you all be posting if you didn't, right? even though you've only just meet me, and really don't know a whole hell of a lot about me.

one thing i also believe is that you can either be an artist, or be sane. you can't be both. Vincent Van Gogh, my favorite artist, and whom i quote down there, was....strange. LoL, okay, he was more then strange. but he created masterpieces. he was ahead of his time. when we was alive, he couldn't sell any of his paintings. now, one of his paintings holds the record for highest bid for a painting, at 86 million.

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
....deep down inside, i know you all care. why would you all be posting if you didn't, right? even though you've only just meet me, and really don't know a whole hell of a lot about me...


Right! So no more suicide talk, okay?

Let's focus instead on the wonders of older women --- especially those with wide hips and really big butts. ;)

[i]
Let's focus instead on the wonders of older women --- especially those with wide hips and really big butts. ;) [/B]

well, now i wouldn't know anything about that :rolleyes:

one thing that i was told was that i'm not comfortable with be positive. that i've been depressed and alone for so long, that it's my comfort zone.

one thing i want to tell you guys about is my ex-girlfriend. i met her when i was 14, and she was 13. i had just moved into the town (it was only a couple of miles from my old town) but i still felt like i was tottally alone. all the kids made fun of me. i remember them as being very relentless and driving me to the point of tears. i remember right around there was when i first attempted suicide. but, her and i became the best of friends. she was the first person i've ever met in my life who i could say was my best friend in the world. it wasn't like i was trying to become friends with her or anything, it just natrually became that way.

well, to make a long story short, she asked me out on a date about a year after we first met. i was a little reluctant at first, but then i accepted. we then became romantically involved, and let me tell you that was the greatest time of my life. for the first time, i was SO happy. i know we were soul mates. we had such a strong bond with one another. it was awesome.

but then i made a lot of mistakes. i wasn't comfortable with my life going so well. i was always like "my life can't be this good...something's going to go wrong" so what i would do is create drama..which unfortunetly i'm very good at. i would create a lot of drama, to try to test her to see if she really loved me. i'm not going to go into details right now...but lets just say i made a really big mistake.

then, a little over two years ago, she broke up with me. i was absolutly heart broken, because i was totally ready to go in for the long haul. i become super depressed. i didn't eat, i sleeped all the time. to this day i'm still not really over her. i would love to get back together with her, if she'd give me a chance. we still talk quite a bit, but she has a new boyfriend, who i hate. :mad:

but i would love to have one more chance...

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
::sigh:: sometimes life just seems so pointless and futile. i think "why am i even alive" i think about suicide a lot. ever since i was 12, i always thought about killing myself. you know, just getting it over with. but i've never been brave enough to acutally do anything. sometimes, i really wish i was.

*** sounded to me that u might have a natural chemical imbalance called depression...my little sister was like that...she was suicidal ever since puberty...i can see that the onset of puberty might have made her hormons got even more out of wack...when she grew up, she constantly checked herself in and out of hospitals not realizing that she really needed medication and some good counseling which i didnt' think she really got from the very beginning...she finally was murdered by a mental case she met in one of those mental hospitals she checked herself into...it was on prime time news when the man got arrested for beating up his mother in law and stabbed his sister in law 7 times and barricaded himself for hours inside his in laws home...he then confessed that he murdered my sister...it was some gruesome murder alright...very tragic...i'm not saying that u would wind up the same way as she did...but i would seek some profesional help if i were u...i would go see a psychiatrist or medical doctor to get myself tested for depression first...finding a good one can be tricky...i wish u luck, poet of darkness...

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
i feel like that no one will understand me. i feel like i'm alone. i've always been alone. no one has ever cared, or will ever care about me. trust me on this one. i was destined to be alone. forever.

a counselor? please, that's just what i need. some arrogent shrink telling me how i should live my life when they can't even run theirs.

poetofdarkness...the feeling of being totally alone as if u were in some sort of emotional abyss feeling completely isolated is the very feeling of depression at one of its very lows...

as far as finding the right shrink is concerned, i think this is very tricky like i stated in the previous post...but i would recommend reading self help books if u r not into counselors...i would also get my biochemicals balances checked out if i were u...

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness
.
i was put on an anti-depressent about two years ago. i rarely took it while i was on it. i flat out refused to take them. i don't 'believe' in taking anti-depressents. i believe that if i'm going to get passed this, then i'm going to do it with out the help of "happy pills"




*** i just saw on some documentary a while back actually just recently about how some antidepressant actually caused someone to have suicidal ideations...paxal was one of them...

i recommend reading the book called Suicide by Emily Dirkheim...it was the best book i read on that subject...it's a compilation of a bunch of research findings on which categories of people tend to commit suicide or have suicidal ideations...see if u can use those findings and try to apply it to your life by avoiding those socialogical factors that might put u in that suicidal moods u r in lots of times...

btw, i took a developmental psych class once in college and the professor asked the class who haven't even thought of suicide and about only half of the class raised their hands...so u can bet that most of us had thought about it at one time or another...i think that the difference is that most of us just let it be a fleeting thought rather than dwelling on it...

when we're in a negative mood, we will have the tendency to recall more negative memories and therefore have more negative thoughts...

one thing i do notice about combating those depressive moods is thru physical activity...

my family is genetically predisposed to depression (in my family there were 3 suicides i know of and all had sociological reasons to their suicides, but the greater majority had not even attempted suicides even tho they might have low depressive moods like u do lots of the times)...

and i know some other families have the same struggle but not one of them committed suicide or even attempted it...what i found to be the key fact was that they're all very physically active b/c they know that that's how to overcome the effects of their predisposition to depression...i'm not suggesting u to be some work out machine there which i think u already are...i'm saying that whenever u find yourself in one of your depressive moods, u can go do something physical...that might be the opposite of what u feel like doing but that's exactly what u need to do to get yourself out of it...

whenever u find yourself thinking negative thoughts, u might want to try replacing it w/ a positive one...how can i state this negative situation in a positive way? that would be something i would think about every time when i feel myself becoming negative...w/ the situation u r currently in now, i would say that u r having some struggle that's all part of growing up and growing up can be very painful at times...and that's ok...it's like going to the gym and exercises...unless your muscle aches and tears, chances are they're not growing...so u r in a low right now...but u sure wouldn't be there forever...so u experiences some stumbling blocks but u can make that stepping stones....did u know that baberuth who had the most number of homeruns also had the most number of struck outs?

b/c of the apparent depression u suffer, it would be very crucial for you to make every effort to combat those negative thoughts...

do u know that for every thought we have, there's a physiological response to it? if that's the case, our thoughts hold great power to how we will feel physically and emotionally...if u already feel down, negative thoughts would only downward spiral u further...when u get tired of those negative thoughts and negative moods, u would want to commit suicide and someday u just might succeed in doing so ...

so if i were u, i would try to make every attempt to combat my negative low moods w/ physical activity and do "thought stopping" whenever i catch myself thinking negatively...

why don't u try that, PoD? and see if u can commit yourself to do that repeatedly and see if u can find yourself feeling better afterwards...

PoD, are u committed to living? if not, u wouldn't be making many changes or applying the things u learned in this post...perhaps u might want to honestly ask yourself that question "how committed am i to living a healthy life or just living?"...if u do not have any religious beliefs, i suggest that u find one...find a religion that fits u the best that u r most comfortable w/...believing there's a higher Power and there's purpose and meaning to our lives makes a big difference in our commitment to living thru the trials and struggles we're endowed w/...

w/ the number of suicides i got in my family, according to Emily Dirkheim, that places me in the category of high risks for suicide...but i never even attempted suicide & am alive & well today b/c i have the Gospel in my life...i found my church and believe it whole heartedly...therefore i am committed to struggle thru all the trials i'm endowed w/ believing that i will be able to cope w/ them all & come out conqueror, and have a healthy productive life...i'm at a low point in my life right now but i know that i will get out of this eventually...i hope that u will allow yourself to feel the love around u...i know it's hard sometimes b/c of the depression u suffer...but when u r not in a depressive mood, try to read all these replies again and feel the love others are giving out to u by their taking their time & energy to try to lift u up...reassess your commitment to living & commit yourself to apply what u learn is my hope and prayer...

best wishes, POD...

luv, ng

some arrogant shrink telling me how i should live my life when they can't even run theirs.
I know quite a few counselors and I must say in their defense, their lives are going ok. It is difficult sometimes to find the right one that fits our need. There is nothing wrong with interviewing or asking friends for recommendations.

Regarding the anti-depressants, being sleepy and feeling weirded out (or more weirded.. :D ) is to be expected the first few weeks. One must take them everyday, not just here and there for them to work. One can start at a lower dose sometimes and that works well, if it is taken everyday.

If you had diabetes would you try to happy talk your body into making more insulin? It is the same with a Seratonin depletion. If that is the cause, one cannot positive think their way out of it.

Also, using terms like ALWAYS and NEVER in our thinking and talking can be self-defeating & will make us sometimes even more depressed. Like "People never like me." If you are having a tough time getting over past hurts then I really hope you will consider talking to someone about the specific hurts (like you are doing..yea)

Just curious, have you tried to self medicate with other street drugs. That is not uncommon but they can bring one down also, without one realizing it. Sort of like too close to the forest to see the tree, understand?

Dealing with depression takes a lot of courage and also faith. Coming this far and posting, shows that you do have that. I will keep you in my thoughts... take care.
Barbara

i forgot to mention that there was some researches done on depression and it was found that the lack of the Omega 3 fatty acids in our brain was linked to depression, ADD & something else...omega 3 fatty acids are found naturally in fish oils...salmon was recommended as one of the richest source of that kind of oil...pumpkin seeds are also another source...the supplements for fish oil might not be as effective...

Originally posted by nightingale
my little sister was like that...she was suicidal ever since puberty...i can see that the onset of puberty might have made her hormons got even more out of wack...when she grew up, she constantly checked herself in and out of hospitals not realizing that she really needed medication and some good counseling which i didnt' think she really got from the very beginning...she finally was murdered by a mental case she met in one of those mental hospitals she checked herself into

Nightingale, how awful for your sister! And how awful that you and your family had to go through that. :(

It is clear that you have alot of experience in understanding depression and the devastating effects, as well as treatment options. You've given PoD alot of very useful information and advice.

Originally posted by whiterose
Nightingale, how awful for your sister! And how awful that you and your family had to go through that. :(

It is clear that you have alot of experience in understanding depression and the devastating effects, as well as treatment options. You've given PoD alot of very useful information and advice.

*** i'm really glad that u appreciated it...it was a growing stage for me & some people to go thru and having family members going thru similar experiences, i can c the base of his problem...i hope that he would give some serious thoughts to everything i wrote there b/c i think he can truly benefit from them...and i also believe there're many others out there reading posts like these, have similar problems but would not post about it but struggling alone on their own, not knowing when would be the day that they might take their lives...one time i saw on oprah winfrey's show...she had 3 of those women came on her show talking about it...those 3 women were suicidal...two of them even had husbands & children...they saw on the show a woman who had all 4 of her children murdered by her husband...she had a phd also but did not deal w/ living too well b/c of it...she was bitter and everything...she came on the show and told her story...and those 3 women saw her and gained courage to live & came on the show and told about it...

POD, u r one of the 40 millions of americans that suffer from depression...u r definitely not alone at all...

Excellent post Amina... (((hugs)))~ I love you!:)

First of all, i would like to say how deeply sorry i am for Amina. that must have been tough at a young age. i couldn't even really compeihend it i hope that you didn't go through to much heartache...and that you got through it. your post was very touching and beautiful.

to be honest, i never really thought about the impact it would have on other people if i did kill myself...i just thought about how no one cares about me or loves me...but now that i think about it, it would be horrible for my family (even though we're not really close) if i did kill myself. i don't really want to cause them that kind of pain, even though i can't deny what i'm feeling

i've never been the biggest fan of people or social interaction. i've always been a loner. i always used to think that it was selfish for people to stop someone from killing themselves. like, if someone wants to commit suicide, and someone stops them, wouldn't that be considered selfish? because the person isn't letting that person who wants to kill themselves, do what they want...at least, that's what i always thought

i would like to thank everyone who gave me their thoughts and opinions...it makes me feel like i have a place to come and share what i'm feeling, without being judge or whatever. i don't mean to sound gushy, and i know i'm new here, but i kinda feel like i've made a family here.

i'm not going to go on any medications or anti-depressants...that's just not how i do things. and i don't like talking to shrinks and councellers. i've been dealing with this for years now by myself, and i can countine dealing with by myself (and just for the record, it's not a stupid "macho" thing, i hate that crap and i'm defently not like that)...but i love talking with you guys. :D you all have been very kind and comforting. thank you.

anima, i finally see why u always appear to be wise beyond your age...u had gone thru some grievous trials as i can tell by your post above...i always know that something good will always come out of something very bad...this is just one of the examples of that idea...even when i was being physically abused as a child, afterwards i was always able to see at that young age that something positive would come from it...

POD, every time when i think to myself that no one cares or loves me, i've learned to ask myself the question "do i care & love them?" "do i have any compassion over their nonunderstanding & their apparent noncompassion over me?"...when i got the courage to be compassionate enuff to understand why they do not understand, i began to see how self absorbed & self-centered i had been all this time & wrapped so much into my own self & my own problem to love & care about them...when i finally saw my own unlovingness & uncaring attitude being so self absorbed & self centered, i began to see their love for me & how i was unloving towards them & how my inability to accept their imperfect love is the same as being unloving towards them...

one of my uncles had seen how hurt everyone was at my little sister's funeral & also at my cousin's funeral, he was able to step out of himself & struggled thru his depressive moods & resisted his temptation to commit suicides...

well, POD, i will not be one of those ppl that would stop u from committing suicide b/c after all, we are all going to check out of life someday...suicide is just one of the ways people check out of this life...but i will say that it is an easy way out & like anima said, it is a selfish thing to do & in the process u will hurt lots of people not mentioning yourself...

FYI---the root cause of mental illness is self-centeredness...i also saw a lot of self-absorption in psychopathologies...i hope this two bits of info will help!!!!!!!!! good luck & best wishes!!!!!!!

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness



i'm not going to go on any medications or anti-depressants....

*** i think that u will do fine w/o it b/c if u r posting and writing away here, u r not all that depressed to the point of needing those antidepressants!!!!!! besides, those drugs got lots of undesirable side effects...!!!!!!!11

Amina your post made me cry not only because you write so beautifully but because I know the lasting effect suicide has on a family too.

Poet I'm so glad you feel at home here.I'll tell ya.....I don't have many people in real life I can turn to so the internet is a God send to me too.

*hugs*

I am glad that you feel welcomed and safe to speak your mind on this site..I too found solace here and I am greatful for finding this site.....WELCOME

Do you realize how selfish that is? See, often times we get so caught up in our grief...that we cause others pain and neglect. The world may do us wrong, but we must never stop taking the ultimate feelings of others into consideration when thinking about something as serious as taking one owns life

i'm not sure, i still kind of believe that suicide is a choice thing. that everyone has the right to choose to take their own life, because it's just that, their OWN life.

Do you think this may have something to do with why you feel so unloved and invisible? I can tell you that being well liked, being popular, being "loved" requires work...It requires you being friendly, outgoing, confident, and secure...Even the most gorgeous, intelligent people can't just wake up and say "Ok...worship me now world"...And for those who can, like movie stars..many of them worked hard, kissed a lot of butts, and had to really, really learn to believe in themselves...EVERYONE, even the most seemingly "perfect" people struggle with feelings of dispair, with feeling like no one loves them, and with feeling like if they died tomorrow no one would notice...I have gorgeous, rich, brilliant friends who have very low self esteem and think that no one loves them b/c they can tell when people are genuine, and when they are just "fillers"...even people surrounded by others can feel alone if they know that no one around them truly, truly wants to take the time to get to know and understand who they really are...

i'm a bit of a sociophope. i'm defently more of a one-on-one person, rather then a 'group' person. when i want to hang out with someone, i want to hang out with someone. i don't want to hang out with a committee. i know that even people with more friends then they know what to do with can still feel alone. i had a friend who had more friends then any person knew what to do with. but she still felt depressed and alone. because she said that the friendships really didn't mean anything, because they were never very close with any of them.

Hmmm...I have to disagree greatly here. Let's look at the big picture. If a child wants to run across the street..and the parent says, "no, don't go near the road, you'll harm yourself, we don't want you to harm yourself, we want you to have a long, happy life...and we'd be very upset if something happened to you" are those parents being selfish? or...are they being protective, loving, caring, and responsible? See..when one talks of suicide, they become very irresponsible, and very child like...you can no longer even be trusted to live...therefore, those around you take on a sort of "care taker" roll, and in many ways...suicidal people are not unlike an unknowning child barrelling toward a highway...

i totally understand what you're saying, but i think there's a difference between a child running into a highway, and a person wanting to take their own life. like i said, i believe that suicide is a choice thing, and while running into a highway is a choice thing as well, said child is probably ignorant of the probable consequences of running into a busy highway. i very well know that by killing myself, i'll be dead, and wont be coming back. i know i'll be causing my family pain. i know i'll be dead and gone. i don't mean to generlize here, but said child probably dosen't want to die. but let's assume for a second he did...well, when i was a child, i understood things that adults thought i didn't. but i also think there's a difference between a child wanting to play in the street, and an 18-year-old (myself) wanting to commmit suicide.

So, feeling horrible, alone, unloved, and suicidal is how you'd prefer to "do things"...??? I'm not being a smarta**, I'm being serious...if something is not working the way it should be, there is nothing wrong with using some outside forces to get things on track...this does not mean you will have to be "doped up" or that you'll have to stay on medication forever...nor does it mean that if you've had past, negative experiences with medication that the same experiences will happen again.

i was put on two medications, Paxil CR, and Risperdal. i hated being on them. not only did they make me very tired, they totally drained my creativity, which i HATED. i read an article about an artist who had schizophrenia, and he said that when he was on his medication, he could never create his artwork. that's exsactly how i feel. and i don't know if you've seen the film A Beautiful Mind (if you havn't, you sould, it's a fantastic movie) John Nash refused treatment and medication because he couldn't create his work wile on the medication and treatment. he wanted to use his mind to conquer schizophrenia. so that's why i stopped taking the meds. not to mention there are harmful side-effects to taking many medications.

See, in a way you already are talking to "shrinks"...that's why you are here..and many, many "shrinks" are as calm, open minded, and loving as the people here have been. Many "shrinks" have even dealt with depression themselves, and many have experienced tragedy in their own lives...not all of them are pretentious or arrogant, many of them are loving and decided to go into that field b/c they, themselves have dealt with feelings of dispair and hopelessness...don't write something off before you've given it an in-depth attempt..

i know that all "shrinks" arn't arrogent and uptight. hell, my sister's one. but just the ones i've delt with are. i don't like playing mind games with people, and that's what i always felt like i was doing while in theropy. i just had a bad feeling while talking with them. like they felt they were "better" then me. i know all of them arn't like that, like i said my sister is one (she does think she's better then me, but that's a different story, LoL)

I can tell you are extremely frustrated. I work in the social services field, and many of my clients are women who have been abused. Abuse is a cycle. And when these women find a guy who actually treats them halfway decent, it scares them. They're not used to it. Unless they are able to break the cycle, which is very hard and takes a lot of strength and couseling, then they eventually go back to what they know. Perhaps you are "barking up the wrong tree"when it comes to the type of woman you want. Trust me, there are a plethora of women who have never been abused but still looking for a nice guy like you. Just as long as they don't smother them.

And I know all too well about the height thing. My sister is 5'10" and says she'll never date a short man. I, on the other hand, think short men are SOOOO cute! (I'm 5' 9" and the runt of the family.) They remind me of little teddy bears and I just want to hug them!! At any rate, I wish you the best of luck.

Originally posted by PoetOfDarkness

i was put on two medications, Paxil CR, and Risperdal. i hated being on them. not only did they make me very tired, they totally drained my creativity, which i HATED. i read an article about an artist who had schizophrenia, and he said that when he was on his medication, he could never create his artwork. that's exsactly how i feel. and i don't know if you've seen the film A Beautiful Mind (if you havn't, you sould, it's a fantastic movie) John Nash refused treatment and medication because he couldn't create his work wile on the medication and treatment. he wanted to use his mind to conquer schizophrenia. so that's why i stopped taking the meds. not to mention there are harmful side-effects to taking many medications.


John Nash was schizophrenic, but he was not, to my knowledge, suicidal. If you're making the choice to not use meds because you want to beat this condition and still retain your creativity, then more power to you. However, if it's a choice between taking the meds and being dead, I'd go with taking the meds.

There are two distinct desires you're expressing:

1) To live, conquer your depression and retain your creativity.

2) To commit suicide.

You have to figure out which desire is the one you really want. Right now you appear to be confusing the two, because you're arguing from both sides of the equation. However, that won't work in the real world because one decision automatically cancels out the other. You can't be creative and dead at the same time.

Poet, I am an RN and I want to talk to you from a clinical perspective, but also from the perspective of someone who has been on anti-depressants several times in the past 15 years. I realize that you did not like how the anti-depressants made you feel. But, sometimes you have to keep trying until you find the right medication.

I was also on paxil in the past. Also on zoloft and elavil. Of those, I felt that the zoloft helped me the most with the least amount of side effects. I hated the elavil the most. It really made me feel completely numb.

My point is, that if you do have true clinical depression, it's not something that you can win just because you "will yourself" to do that. Don't make judgements against all medications based upon how two made you feel.

If you want to feel better, then don't be afraid of continuing to try the medication that works best for you. You and your physician may have to try various types before you find one that works best for you. Someone else may have compared having a condition like depression with having another chronic illness, like diabetes. It requires getting to know your illness and trying to find the treatment regimen that works best for you.

It's not normal to think of suicide as much as you are. I feel that you deserve to have a much healthier life than what you are experiencing. Please continue to seek treatment until you find a regimen that works best for you.

((( hugs )))

. i've found out from exspirence that women arn't intrested in dating nice, polite guys like myself, but always date losers and abusers. whould someone please explain all this to me?
Well, basically, it's this: women have always sought strong males, but many modern women are too superficial to realize that a truly strong male is one of sterling character.

So these shallow women latch onto men who project an outward appearance of strength by acting like boorish thugs.

In the end, the nice guy loses (or wins, depending on how you look at it) by being rejected by this kind of woman, and the woman has to endure years of physical and emotional abuse from Mr. Machismo. Sad but true.

There is a physical, chemical side to depression. There's been a lot of research indicating that depression is in many ways a chemical imbalance in the brain, which antidepressants work to correct. Chemical imbalances absolutely have an effect on our emotions. Just ask anyone who suffers from low blood sugar or any woman who's had PMS.

However, it's also true that there are a lot of potential complications with antidepressants. Also, there's the patience factor: frequently you have to wait about 2-3 weeks before the antidepressants build up enough in your system to reverse the chemical imbalance, and in the meantime that's 2-3 weeks of feeling like crap and wondering why you're even bothering to take the damn things.

Another option that's less dramatic is to investigate naturopathic remedies, such as St John's Wort. There is scientific evidence suggesting that St John's Wort is useful in treating depression. They aren't entirely certain how, but it seems to work by preventing nerve cells in the brain from reabsorbing serotonin, or by reducing levels of a protein involved in the body's immune system that might trigger depression. It's been used to treat depression in Europe for decades, particularly in Germany, with positive results. It also doesn't give people that numb, spaced-out feeling they can get from taking pharmacutical antidepressant medication.

This option might be preferable to taking nothing at all, but still retaining your sense of self and creative spark.

Great advice, Scarlet! :)

POD, i've not read what everyone else has been telling u...just as i was telling u, paxal is one of those that has the suicidal ideations as one of its side effects...there are other anti depressants also has that problem and more...

u might want to try effexor...i was told that that's the latest one...& it works in many ways...

the very fact that u r in here typing away tells me that u can do w/o it...

i cited u the example of my little sister in my very first reply to your thread...your depression sounds very much like hers...

the aloneness your female friend feels while she's amongst a bunch of friends is one of those depressive moments in which u feel so all alone like unreachably alone while u r amongst a crowd of people...

a lot of what u said was true...some shrinks did come across the same way to me like the way u described it...they hide behind some sort of authoritative facades...i think that's where u got the idea that they were better than u or at least they thought they were better than u or that was how they came across to u...

well like i said b4 in my previous replies, i found self help books to be the most helpful...i read a lot & understood a lot more of my own behavior and that of others from reading books...

i too agree that it's an individual choice....if that's what u opt, then i would feel very sorry for all your friends & family members...they will be forever grieving over the loss of you...

personally i really don't believe that u want to kill yourself...i believe u really want to end the pain caused by depression...

if u really want to kill yourself, you'd done it by now & not posting about it...your posting about it is your way of crying out for help...

& we're trying to help u here & i find that u r fighting tooth & nail resisting the help we're trying to give u...WHY??????????? may i have an answer to that????????

Just curious, were you put on these two medications at the same time? Was the Paxil dosage higher than 20 mg.'s per day?

Originally posted by yellowrose
Just curious, were you put on these two medications at the same time? Was the Paxil dosage higher than 20 mg.'s per day?

oh, man...i'm sorry, but i honestly don't remember. it's been a long time, and it's not like i try my best to remember that period in my life.

growing up, i always knew i was different from most people, that i was somehow special. well, at least i knew i was different from the kids at school. mostly, i try to pride myself on being so different, but it is hard.

Originally posted by ScarletHawke
Another option that's less dramatic is to investigate naturopathic remedies, such as St John's Wort. There is scientific evidence suggesting that St John's Wort is useful in treating depression.

St. John's Wort works for my man when he's under the effects of SAD (seasonal affective disorder - it's not exactly clinical depression, but a down mood that can strike during the months when we get less sunlight). He also takes it occasionally at other times if he's feeling down.

My sense is that St. John's is very mild stuff so it should't change someone's personality drastically, it's not expensive, and it's easy to get at any health food store. (You might want to investigate different brands on the internet to see which are the purest and which have been tested and shown to have very little of the herb.)

Poet... two things...

One... Effexor is the med my daughter just started, she has taken it for about one week and I can already see an improvement, she has tried two others before and they were not a good fit for her. Effexor one mentioned by Nightingale earlier.

Two... not only could you feel alone in a group because of depression but you may also want to investigate the possibility that you are an introvert. From what you described about liking one-on-one contact as opposed to a group, that could may be a possibility.

Just in the last year I have discovered I am an introvert and I was glad to be able to put a label on it. :)

i never said that John Nash was suicidal, i said that he wanted to fight his demons by himself, with his mind. even if he never conquerd them, i still have tromendous respect for him. i feel i'm in a simular situation. i want to conquer my deomns without the help of medications.

Originally posted by Amina315
Right, but your demons are deadly..his were not...(he just molested kids...what a guy!)

he also declared himself the ruler of Antarctica. heh

who is john nash? i dont watch the news anymore so i can be pretty unaware. anyway amina, you spoke so well, i too agree that suicide is never the answer but i had a friend a few years back that took that route, he was very sweet sensitive and gay, he was tired of the gay scene, he had a notion that he was only attracted to younger men and that he had grown ugly and no one he would want him????? we talked about this alot, and i never saw this coming.....he never kissed me, but right before he died he hugged me and kissed me on the mouth and said i was a really nice person, i did not know he was saying goodbye.

i worked with him and his mom, it was so terrible, it destroyed her and the entire family. i had a terrible depression after my daughter was born, it scared me for years after it, my God all i saw was black, it was horrible.....

depression is very real and as whiterose said medically treatable, your best thinking has told you that shrinks are quacks and medicine does not work, your thinking has gotten you into this mess and its best now to let someone else help. we did not come into the world to live alone, we came into this world to help eachother, i agree to a certain degree that it is our self centeredness that can get us into all kinds of messes, left to our own devices we can convince ourselves of alot of bullcrap that has no bearing near the truth.

even if you are not lovin the notion of taking medication, it is PRO ACTIVE in treating your problem, it is important to take action. I hope you do get help and whatever your faith base is, from me to you, God bless!!