lil' advice if you please..marriage

Yes... over analyzing again, but hey, you guys know me by now. Kick my "b..t" if I need it and sorry about how long this is.

All is wonderful on the home front but I am taking my own advice that I give to the newbies and asking for a bit of input because, yes, I still need input from time to time.

You guys have helped me through a lot and this is no biggy, just want to hear your take on it.


He is completely against marraige. He wants to be with me forever.


I know it is just paper... but as much as I hate it... that chick thing kicks in and yes I would like him to want to be my family. We neither want kids.

It's just that I was married a couple times before and nobody wanted to ask me to be theirs. get on the knee and do the "I want you to be mine forever" thing.

Tell me what you think. feel free to be honest. whatever. be brutal if this is what I need.

I just want to have a better perspective. Should I have outgrown this gushy stuff and just love the relationship as it is. grrrr... I irritate myself with all this junk.
talk to me.

Should I have outgrown this gushy stuff

No because you are a woman and we're all about gushy romantic stuff.Having him propose marriage would make you feel cherished and who doesn't want that in a relationship.

Why is he so against marriage?

He says he sees me as his wife already. He is incredibly shy and has this family who is really loud and in each other's business... he says his family.. even though not greek... it the big fat greek wedding.

He has social anxiety dissorder and the fear may be in the fact that he sweats bullets when he walks into a mall. being the center of attention may be his fear.

I suggested courthouse... he said he believes that the paper thing is superficial.


what do you think?

Originally posted by MrsJonesolet
No because you are a woman and we're all about gushy romantic stuff.Having him propose marriage would make you feel cherished and who doesn't want that in a relationship.

Why is he so against marriage? DITTO and same question. LOL

So how do I deal with this? What would you do?

my personal feelings...
The "piece of paper" is not a guarantee obviously, but I feel it brings with it a greater sense of accountability to work things out during the rough spots...and it is a statement to the world that you are SURE you want to be with this person.

What woman wouldn't want that from the man they love=accountability and surety (or visa versa)?

To some, it's no big deal...to me it's very important.

For me it's either marriage, or he can chose to take me to Venice, stand in the middle of St. Mark's Square, give me a diamond ring... pull me in close while flocks of birds fly overhead and then yell at the top of his lungs for everyone to hear..., " I LOVE THIS WOMAN !!" (like in the diamonds-are-forever commercial that makes me cry every time it comes on)...

That public declaration of his committed love would probably work for me too:D

my husband has social anxiety and so do I to a lesser extent.

anyway....ok I totally get him not wanting a big wedding and I also understand that he see's you as his wife already.....but the picture is not complete because a marriage is about TWO people.

It's pretty damn important that YOU as the other half of this partnership feel *joined together as one* as perhaps he already does.....otherwise it's not a marriage at all.

You see what I mean.....a marriage is about two people being on the same page,making a vow,in the way they BOTH believe is REAL.

It's not a marriage for you or me or many many other people unless you have that piece of paper......he can say you are already his wife all he wants but in your mind it just ain't so.

I feel that he needs to do this for you....if he is really and truely commited.

my point exactly Nessa

you already felt married.......he didn't.....so you are doing what he needs to be on the same page.

Jan, honey, no need to be the center of attention. . . the two of y'all need to just fly to Hawaii and get married on the beach or fly to Vegas and do the drive thru thingy if he doesn't want anybody to see y'all! :D

I love the drive thru thing... just dont want to be the chick with the balls driving him to it or wait 20 yrs... maybe he is only about to turn 21 so I should let the grapes ripen for a year... 2 more... 3 more... hmmm. I may be impatient cuz i am so in love n feeling close

Jan I'm just gonna offer my opinion for whatever its worth and maybe it might help (or maybe you will completely and utterly cnfused and if that;s the case, I am VERY sorry)

I too do not beleive in marriage. I was married once, and divorce sucked. But the most frustrating part about it was the fact that the goverenment (court or whatever) was involved in my relationship. Why did I have to go through all the bull and basically ask permission from a bunch of people I did not know in order to end my marriage? It was degrading.

Marriage in the church is a sacrament (an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace). In those terms, if you have the spiritual union, why do you need a peice of paper as the outward sign? Why couldn't it be something else? Something that is meaningful and special to the both of you.

I also have a few friends who are gay.And another reason I am against marriage is because all love cannot be recongnized by the court. My friends are joined together at the heart, just as it seems you and your bf are. That is more beautiful than a piece of paper.

I know its not popular opinion and as a sappy girlie girl myself I understand your desire for a marriage, but I just thought I would share my thoughts.

Good luck and keep us posted

Smiles and hugs!!!

This is my take on marriage:

Marriage is not just so you can show the world your committment to each other because basically you're not here to show the world, you here to show yourself and your partner and God (if that is your belief) that you have covenant with a higher being that requires love, commitment, and unity and you're willing to step up to the plate and be committment to the principle.

So let's break it down:
Love requires that we share all our hearts, it allows for no sharing, nor dividing, nor depriving. Commitment is a dedication or loyalty to a principle, person or institution. Loyalty does not waver but remains constant. There will be some days where we may not even like our partners, emotions may fluctuate, but loyalty does not, if commitment is firm, loyalty commands that we not desert the relationship when adverse circumstances occur. The principle of unity involves all facets of the relationship--physical, emotional and spiritual, showing respect and consideration for the other. Unity holds love and commitment to their word...so do you think you or your ym have what it takes to hold together these principles, because statistically, it shows that more than 50% of the population does not.

Possibly your ym doesn't want to do this at this time. He is young and unfortunately for you, able to hold off on his decision to marry for quite sometime. but marriage requires a higher state of selfless living and when a divorce occurs its usually a selfish act by one or both parties to the marriage contract. He proably doesn't see himself trustworthy enough to enter into a contract that will require so much out of him, when it is easier for the person who doesn't want to be in the relationship any longer to just walk away.

You can wait if you want to, but please understand that he might not, change his mind and in the meantime, you want to wait 2/3 years to see if he changes his mind, and if he doesn't, where does that put you. If you think that you can't afford to invest more time on this guy then you're willing to lose, then stay with him and hope for the best, but in making that choice, you've gotta stopped bugging him about it. He's told you his decision and you have two choices, you can eat it, or dump it and find someone who wants the same things you do. Remember if you're living with him, he's already reaping the benefits of marriage, so why should he do anything when you've already stated how you want to be treated.

Paris

I agree with Paris. If you do stick around waiting Jan, then you're assuming that he'll change his mind. What if he never does? Are you ready to accept that and live together?

After having been through two divorces, I can also see how alot of people feel like marriage is just a piece of paper. It's not that I felt that way, but apparently, my previous two spouses didn't take marriage very seriously because their actions contributed to the divorces. So, having that little piece of paper didn't not prove their commitment to me at all.

I have to tell you about one of my employees. She is in her late 50's. She and her husband were married for a few years and got divorced. They ended up getting back together, but she refuses to remarry him. She loves him, but she doesn't see the value in the piece of paper anymore. So, they've been living together again for something like 25 years. Most people think they are married. But, they're not. Oh, there would be some benefits of being married, like tax exemptions, insurance, although our company is now allowing health insurance for all live-in domestic partners -- regardless of same sex or opposite sex. But, anyway, the fact that she and her ex have been in an long-term committed relationship is just as important as if they were legally married.

So, anyway, Jan, it will all boil down to how well you can accept that. If it is so important to you that he propose, then you may need to come to terms with the fact that he may never. On the other hand, if he's young, he may still be trying to find his place in this world. I do believe that people's opinions about these matters tend to change with age and experience. However, you will need to decide if you can accept that for now, all you know is that he really doesn't want to marry. You can't make decisions based upon "what if's".

I like your attitude Nessa. PARTY ON GIRL. you deserve it :)

Nessa has her act together... for sure!
I love reading what you have to say Nessa :)

yeh.....you can't badger the guy into marrying you (why would you want to) but I think he needs to know that it's really important to you....and hopefully he will want to do that for you,at some point......just like Nessa is doing for her man.

Some of us have had the good experience to evolve beyond the seduction of "Hollywood" preconceived notions of what romance "is supposed to be

huh? your kidding me right? You think that women who want romance... do so because Hollywood seduces them into wanting it?

Romantic love is built into the system as far as I'm concerned .....it's been around since time began and it won't be going away anytime soon.

If you DO really buy into them, then act accordingly. Find someone into the same concepts.

This I agree with....and in a perfect world we would ALL do that wouldn't we? The problem is....love don't work like that. I mean if romance ain't your thing.... find yourself a partner where you can cut a deal and get on with it......but I don't think most people view relationships like that.....once you love someone....your all about trying to make it work.

women want to participate in an unconventional relationship, but then turn around and expect it to just NATURALLY gravitate towards developing all the TRAPPINGS, continuity and parameters of what is dictated by a regular, socially accepted relationship. Pretty unrealistic in my eyes.

I don't think that just because we have an unconventional relationship as far as age goes.....means it's unrealistic to expect it to be "normal" in other areas.

Jan, you really need to distinguish JUST HOW IMPORTANT this is to YOU. No one else...just you.

Most definitely

Wait is what I will do. Of course I am not going anywhere and applying pressure for something like this is just not right for me. (it wouldnt be as special dragging him to the altar kicking and screaming! lol)

I love my ym and whatever happens, as long as we are together is the most important thing.

I will wait as we keep building our lives together. He knows this is something that I have feelings about so I know he has it on his mind. Things always work out.

I am not going to abandon my wishes but instead will simply let a little time pass. If things change of course y'all will be the first to know.

Whatever happens, if it does some day it will not be a circus. That big wedding stuff isn't for me either. Vegas or Hawaii would be fantastic.

Thanks for the help. I saved all of your input so I can keep them and glance back if I feel a little impatient ever. Just glad to have a great person in my life so for now I am going to focus on that. This marriage thing is not a deal breaker. Important to me? yes Need it right now? no Waiting is fine for me.

thanks again everyone!

I hate that the media works us like it does and I always felt I was smarter than to get sucked in. But here I am doing my best impersonation of a sappy chick.

My ym and I will both grow and change. We are both careful to let the other be themselves. I am not the type to try to change someone to be who I want to be someone they are not.

I guess time will tell how this will all work out.

I sometimes wish I could fast foward the tape of life and take a peek, but really, that would be cheating and of course isnt possible anyway.

I will take the adventure of life as it happens and just enjoy the yummy good stuff for now.

I mean really, if this is my biggest problem I may be one of the luckiest folks alive.
As always you all are the bomb!

No because you are a woman and we're all about gushy romantic stuff.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Oh what sweeping generalizational crap!


About that....your right I suppose but then again.... the women that I have met in my life have either been actively seeking romance,found it with someone or they did seek it once but stoped because they became cynical about it's existance after being hurt

or deny that they have this need for it because it somehow makes them weak or some such nonsense

I hope you guys have a long happy relationship Jan

nice to meet you Sally

MrsJ, I will explain what Sally meant, I think....(sorry Sal if I get this wrong)

It's not that women (or men) shouldn't want actual romance *itself*. But there is a lot of silly mythology that it has to look a certain way, happen a certain way, and have all the typical bells, whistles, long-stemmed roses, diamonds, and heart-shaped boxes of chocolates. And oh yeah, champagne. A guy on his knee, a huge expensive white wedding gown, blah blah blah...

Well...some of us wouldn't care for a lot of that stuff if we got it. We want to be treated according to our individual tastes in romance, not necessarily the typical "gushy" way at all! I think Sally reacted to what sounded like the assumption that all women like all the sugary syrupy teary romance-novel type stuff, and we don't. She just got there to say it before I did. ;) I would be the -last- person anyone would call "gushy!" LOL.

I like my romance tempered with a healthy dose of reality!;)

Okay, lets not get too hot in here... *smiles*

Jan, I do know what your talking about. Im 36, my b/f is 22. In the long term, I would like to be married before I am 40. I don't know why this is so important to me..but it is. Not the being married before I am 40 part, but just being married.

I think in a way marriage makes me feel more secure....and also is my mind it tells me that he has made the committment to a life-long relationship. I certainly know that marriage is just a piece of paper, and it is possible to have a life-long committment without it. Im a fairly intelligent person.

Did I learn this from movies, television and society in general? I have no clue whatsoever. I think, possibly, in my case it was more that I was raised thinking women grew up, fell in love, married, had babies and lived happily ever after. That never happened for me....I guess I still hold out hope that it will.

My b/f at 22 readily admits that he is nowhere near ready to get married. We have been dating for 4 years. In a way thats disappointing to me. Im not going to leave him if he doesn't want to marry me.....and I guess Im not going to assume that the time might come that he will want to. J's brother dated the same girl (live-in situation) for 15 years before they finally got married, and that was because they wanted to have children. They finally got married when his brother was in his 30s....so hey, the odds are not looking that great for me here. *smiles*

Romance . . . I think every individual has their own perception about what constitutes romance, and yes, Hollywood has made a contribution to that, but women (and men) have been practicing romance WAAAAAAAAY before Hollywood was a dot on the map. So I don't think, for me anyway, that has anything to do with it. Some people are just more romantic in their thinking than others. And even with the feminist movement, most young girls have romantic dreams about how their lives will evolve with the knight on the white horse and all the trappings that go with it. If Sally did not have those same dreams, I would say she is among the very small minority.

I will say that when you find the ONE . . . the one that you are so totally in tune with that you feel at one with them, the romance just happens. Seemingly without either one of you being aware of it . . . it's just there and you are both lost and caught up in it . . . and if it's really real, it stays with you all the time.

As to the marriage thing . . . I think it is important that you, Jan, make him aware of how you feel and what you want. But, after you have done that, the ball is in his court as to what he wants and how he feels and what's important to him. I would never want to badger or try to force someone to marry me. If I marry, it is because we both wanted it equally and it would mean that we were both ready for that kind of commitment.

While it is true that in today's modern world, marriage may be "just a piece of paper" to some, I do believe it is more than that piece of paper. As a Christian, to me, it is a vow and commitment, not only to the person who would be my spouse, but also to God. It would be my asking of God to bless the union and my vow to him that by his blessing, I am willing to give my everything to the union.

And then, as Katrina mentioned, there are the legalities of a sanctioned marriage. Yes, there are definitely monetary advantages such as the tax advantages, insurance, etc. But there is also the knowledge that the two of you have the responsibility for each other's well being. When it comes to illness and medical issues, if two people are not married, they have no voice or decision in the happenings of the other person. Maybe some people don't want that responsibility (it can be a large one at times), but I have seen some people get very upset when something happens to their loved one and they can't say a word because the blood family has all the rights. The only way to get around that is to have legal documents written up to circumvent the process and then what do you have? A piece of paper!!! WTF??

Back to the original post (since I have seriously digressed) . . . Jan, I do so clearly see where you are and what you are feeling. But you have made him aware of your feelings and that is really all you can do for now. Don't force the issue. He must come to the decision for himself. And you have to decide for yourself if it is worth the risk of waiting for him to decide.

Of course, couples break up all the time and they do survive. Sometimes it is a hard row to hoe, but life does continue. Having said that, ask yourself this . . . Can you imagine your life without him? Would you want that? Is marriage so important that you would want to end your relationship with him to find someone who would be willing to enter into marriage? If you have said yes to any of these questions, then I would say that he is not the person for you to even be thinking about marriage to in the first place.

I believe when two people are right and all the feelings and emotions are right, then the path is very clear and there is no question that they will eventually stand before God and ask for his ultimate blessing and give those sacred vows.

Good luck to you.

life without him is not an option. life without the piece of paper certainly is. It was just this romantic whim that I cannot believe I even think about. I should be over it now. but is sneaks and lurks around just to make me realize what a sap I am. Being a tough chick my whole life I am not sure where this came from, but not worried at all.

I was having one of those weird moments where is seemed like it would be really cool.. and I think it would... but what I have is fantastic.

but all is good. I have someone who loves me completely who I love completely.

That is about as perfect as it can get. Gonna live in the moment and just be happy.

Actually the perfect scenerio would be to be married without government involvement.

Do something that would feel like our official comittment.

We have discussed it in the past and if we do get married we want to have rings tatooed instead of the conventional. (creative people... what can I say)

So maybe at some point that would fulfill my silly romantic whim, the paper could stay out of the picture and do the tattoo rings and that would be official enough for both of us and I think it would be a nice way to express our bond to each other.

Here I go again... think think think. Oh well, this actually sounds kinda nice. hmmm.

there is a lot of silly mythology that it has to look a certain way, happen a certain way, and have all the typical bells, whistles, long-stemmed roses, diamonds, and heart-shaped boxes of chocolates. And oh yeah, champagne. A guy on his knee, a huge expensive white wedding gown, blah blah blah...

I hear ya.....thats the Hollywood hype gushy romance that you guys are refering to? I didn't think Jan was talking about Hollywood hype with her original question about marriage though and I wasn't talking about that either.

I guess where we parted ways with our opinions about romance was the word gushy? I couldn't quite understand why Jan would view wanting to get married as *gushy* and the point I was trying to make (in my not very articulate way) was.........if wanting to get married or having a bit of romance in a relationship is gushy girl stuff........then she's not the only one.

It seems to me that most of us want the same type of things for the "modern" woman.....yet we go about it in different ways. Tell me if I have this wrong? As far as relationships....don't most of us want a woman to be independent...... for her to stand on her own and not to NEED a man or a marriage to define who she is.......yet if that same woman falls in love and decides she WANTS a relationship......We would like to see her keep her strength and sense of self worth in that relationship? If that is true....then I think this is where we start to see things differently.........to me marriage is....yes....romantic but also expecting marriage at *some point*.....offers that woman power and a form of protection from men who want to play house and have all the benifits of being with that beautiful woman but aren't really commited or truely in love.I don't see it as a weakness at all! Just the opposite...I see not expecting it .........as giving away some of her power.

The women that have a balance between old fashioned romantic sentiment and strength of conviction..... are the least likely to get played as far as I'm concerned.

food for thought

Well, there are plenty of *married* people who still live without real commitment in their hearts. We can't assume much about peoples' real feelings about each other just based on whether they do or don't want to marry because it is such a loaded subject.

I won't go what I think of the whole marriage thing, there are too many ways we can describe it, and there's hundreds of years' worth of baggage attached to the concept that can clash with modern values, or not, depending on the views of each one in a marriage.

I wanted to comment about guys who think they are getting "all the benefits" of a marriage without truly loving the woman or being committed. Well...they aren't though. What they don't get is that it's not a quantity thing, where 95% of what they have is exactly the same as in a marriage, and you can just lop off the true love and commitment part.

True love and commitment change the quality of the rest of the 95% (married or not), and those guys who draw the line at giving their hearts are in actuality LOSING OUT. Big time. But sooo many guys don't get this. I pity them.

Originally posted by Nessa
now maybe at 5 a.m. in the morning i'm more blunt than usual and i should ot post before coffee but I always think of Jullia Roberts and Benjamin Bratt.

He proposed. she said NO. She said she wasn't ready to marry. he met and marrieds someone a few months later.

less than a year later she's married someone and now expecting twins.

it's a PERFECT and CLASSIC example of "i'm not ready to marry YOU'.

I'm not saying that this is what's going on in your relationship but I am saying it's a possibility.
Actually, I have seen this quite a few times too, so, I too tend to be a bit suspicious abou the "I am not ready to marry" comment.

Actually, I have to admit that so far, in my relationships it is ME that has been kinda sceptical about getting married ;) My b/f would marry me tomorrow if I let him, lol ... but I have asked for a few more years of "trial" to make up my mind about it ;)

BUT, even though I haven't had any intentions to get married, one of the reasons that finally led me to split up with my previous b/f was that he totally and utterly ruled out marriage. That might sound contradictory, as I wouldn't have wanted to get married in the first place - but it was the lack of even CONSIDERING it that bothered me.
Probably, because I suspect that the total rejection of the idea itself makes me wonder about their committment or love for me ...

However, I don't want to sound too negative, I actually do think that most young guys will consider marriage probably not so much in their early but rather late-20s and upward, so it might just be a matter of time ;) (My ex-b/f was 36, though, and we had been together for 6-7 yrs ...)

*True love and commitment change the quality of the rest of the 95% (married or not), and those guys who draw the line at giving their hearts are in actuality LOSING OUT. Big time. But sooo many guys don't get this. I pity them.
I soooo agree.....lots of guys don't get this for sure and the women that end up with them....you have to pity too.She is probably giving her heart to this guy and not getting the same back......so she is losing out big time too.

btw I was married very young and ended up in this situation so I understand that marriage doesn't nessacarily mean you have his heart at all.

It's just another indication of true intentions.

For me .......if I were with a guy or worse yet living with one that was saying he didn't believe in marriage he would have to come up with a better reason then *it's just a piece of paper* and convience me (not an easy thing to do lol) that he was completely sincere.Other wise I couldn't stay as emotionaly invested.....and I would probably want to move on.

I used to hate that this marriage thing was such a "thing" for me. I have now come to terms that is just something that sounds nice to me and am no longer going to try to deny that for myself.

My ym is commited. I have heard his say that he has never seen happily married people. His parents were a disaster.

He has never seen any relationship as good as ours married or not. Must have been exposed to the wrong crown.

The problem with him isnt commitment, just the idea of the whole legal and cerimonial bs.

As far as worrying about him walking... well marriage doesnt stop that.

I just think I will not let go of my desire to marry but will let him breath.

We did after all just move into our own place after being in a pretty uncomfortable living arrangement for both of us.

Before that he was dealing with my 17 year old who was going off the charts nuts.

We are just getting into a place where we are at ease and can really enjoy ourselves. So I will give it a little time and see.

as for romance? unbelievable. hooked up there.

I heard about the tattoos being touched up. We actually talked to a couple of tattoo places about it so I know it is something that a part of him wants. I just need to let the dust settle let us exist in a nice zone for awhile.

Sometimes I just get a wweee bit emotional. There I go, acting like a girl again (lol). There is a soft chick inside this tuff gal after all.

If you want to get married (I don't blame you...it's a validation of your relationship) and he does not, then dump him.

Jan enjoy what you have and time will tell.......it's not like this is something that needs to be decided on quickly and who knows maybe it will become a non issue because he has a change of heart on his own or because you find that it just doesn't enter your mind anymore.

btw my husband and I have tattooed bands with interlocking arrows :)

For me .......if I were with a guy or worse yet living with one that was saying he didn't believe in marriage he would have to come up with a better reason then *it's just a piece of paper* and convience me (not an easy thing to do lol) that he was completely sincere.Other wise I couldn't stay as emotionaly invested.....and I would probably want to move on.

Me too, Mrs.J....
If it's truly "just a piece of paper" (used as a cop-out statement I think, sadly politically-correct these days in our society)....then, it's just a piece of paper; so what would be the freak-out about signing it ?!?!?

Nah....it's not just a piece of paper...everyone knows that ...it's a binding, legal document that signifies intention/committment/desire to stay together/partner and share equally for the LONG-HAUL...that's why some guys (and women I guess too) run from it. To me, if he never wanted to marry me it would signal that "he was just not that into me."

Also, "if it were just a piece of paper" with no personal meaning or significance to the balker, then it seems it would be "no big deal" to sign in order to show that their partner's desires and wishes were important to them (like Nessa is doing for her guy).

I've heard this same statement from young people who don't want to put in the committment, time, money or effort to earn a degree, which would make them more widely employable, etc...claiming the degree is just a beaurocratic, "piece of paper". The fact is: in our society it is a piece of paper that validates your condition as someone who followed through and dedicated themselves to completing 4 years of college! Heck ya, it says a lot about committment. It's not neccessary to get a job, but it says something about YOU...and it validates your efforts.

Marriage is nothing I'd rush into for the second time..but if my man and I "knew" we were mean-to-be after a year of two of being together, we would need to both put our money where our mouths were and plan to sign at some point in the near future (get engaged)...otherwise, I'd probably move on. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't even date someone seriously if they voiced a firm stand against the validity of marriage (just as I wouldn't seriously date someone who didn't believe in God-because of my personal faith- or someone who couldn't stand children or animals...since fundamental belief systems must be in place for true compatibility).

That's just me...traditional? maybe...but I'd want to know he valued me enough to bind that with his signature in front of me, the world and God.

It wasn't the "paper" that ended our marriages... we changed, thus so did the intention and desire to commit we orignally made when we "signed". Immaterial.

Figured you'd be LYAO...no problem.
It's my story, and I'm sticking to it!:D

Sally. me. I even hate to admit but... divorced... 3. In my mind the first one doesnt count because I came from a completely alchoholic, violent, etc... household and the marriage only lasted a couple months.
#2 was 7 years... he was a sex addict.
#3 was 16 years... still my really good friend and loves that I have found someone who gives me the love that he didnt know how to give.

Oh, he was pissed for about a week or 2 but then realized that we were great friends, great in business, but he cared for me too much to watch me stay with him and be ignored.

He stopped over last night and he, my ym and myself sat around and shot the breeze for about an hour.

My ym was kinda freaked out at first cuz the ex is 6'4' and over 400lbs. But he has been a friend and is truly happy.

wow. off on a tangent. sorry.

still believe in marriage but that doesnt mean the only way to commit. just my romantic dream... non of my previous ever did the one knee thing... dont need the rest... but ...

the man of your dreams locking his eyes with yours and saying... I want you to "officially" be mine forever.

maybe it is just the saying that he wants it to be official.. maybe legally, maybe not...
maybe just a small non gov involved official ceremony...

one where we officially say.. we have taken this time aside,

come to a place besides our livingroom, kitchen or bedroom to say...

this is an important moment,
this is our ceremony about our love where we officially declare we will be dedicated to each other.
and we will keep being dedicated to each other.. and will be kind... and take the time to gaze into each others eyes.
we will remember always the first moment we were in love and will never ever stop.

went off on a creative thingy or something. was fun anyway. oops.

the term and act of deciding to bond for life.
Marriage for me, speaking spiritually, was created to serve mankind. Not mankind to serve marriage and Not a bondage to serve unto itself. Both parties being honest make public, their already blending of hearts, mind, and spirits that created a state of "marriage".

If someone is refusing to marry, then I question whether the two "minds" are really blended and that even if the legal marriage occurs, whether their is a real marriage or not.

Again, to me it is a sign that there is some underlying issues when 2 people are not in sync for a long period of time over this issue. Just my thoughts on the subject. ;)

Divorced here. I think it was the little paper that got to us.

Originally posted by sally
Them thar paper cuts can really make ya bleed, eh Joe?:D


Boy I tell ya', you ain't kiddin'! They're worse then falling through a fence of "bobwire" or cactus gardn'!

Sally, while "marriage does not chose us"... in a way, given society's expectation for women, it is difficult to see if one is really making a choice for themselves or is it because we want the legitimacies and "prestige" that being married gives women.

Now I know that we women HERE are all above the "doing what society" expects, but I see it so ingrained in us that we don't even realize that it is happening.

What I meant in saying 'serving marriage' is this: I am not going to be a slave to a piece of paper and remain legally married if the other person has emotionally divorced me by being unfaithful or being abusive. That was not the spirit in which I got married (or made public) my intentions to begin with.

I have seen quite a few people stay legally married because they thought that "God" would be angry at them if they broke a promise or sacrament. If God created marriage, it was so that we would be happy and enjoy a wonderful loving relationship. It would not be so that we would endure in slavery to a already broken sacrament.

Now of course, I am speaking spiritually.... not psychologically or legally. Just my 2 cents....
:)

"i love brian and i could be with him forever .... It won't make a bit of difference how i feel about him, how i think about him or how i treat him"

Jan, if you got this scenario, then you have everything that matters.

I can't honestly say that marrying my late husband after five years living together and over 8 years together changed anything at all. I'd married him in my heart long before. And he was the one who cried during our ceremony - lol - wasn't me. :D

Give the guy time, he's only 21. I actually joked that nobody was getting married until they were 25 in my current relationship, which started when he was 19. Household Rule!

You've told him how you feel. Now just be with him, joyously, and enjoy every minute you have together.

It is not inferior or less than or marred in any way because you aren't married. Love is love. I learned this the hard way when my husband was diagnosed with terminal cancer 9 months after we were married.

What was important was being with him, not rings, paper, ceremonies, declarations of marriageability, societal or governmental approval of our relationship. None of it mattered a whit. Being together was what mattered. The rest is semantics. I would've suffered no more or less had I been his lover and not his wife.