It's me, Cindy. It happened.

Greg and I broke up a month ago. It was me. But I didn't want to do it. I had to. Greg lied to me, stole some of my son's medication, and went to a porno interactive theatre. I figured out his lie and caught him. And I broke up with him. He didn't fight me off this time. He didnt' grovel and cry and beg me to try again.

He said he needed time and needed to figure out what was wrong with him. He'd already been in counseling for two years with a flake of a counselor that my therapist and I suggested he work with.

All our counselors are from the same clinic. Everyone knows everyone. I started first with my therapist. Greg joined us a few times. Then we started family counseling. Them greg started individual counseling. Then we went to couples counseling. The couples counselor was also the family counselor. They had staff meetings each week.

My heart is broken. I am devastated more than I have been in twenty years. I've been with Greg for almost 4 yers. We had been moving toward marriage. But then everything unraveled.

At about a year and half two years, we started looking for homes. We looked and looked and measured for things etc. But we didn't have any liquid cash. We only had the homes we owned and tried to decide which one to sell or both.

Then his uncle committed suicide and Greg fell apart. He inherited lots of money and property. He is now the last living relative on that side of the family. His father was in a bicycling accident when Greg was 16; he died tragically. When Greg was 18 his brother dies of a massive epileptic heart attack and Greg found the body. Complete tragedy.

When he was 8-9-10 his stepsister sexually assaulted him and Greg lusted for her all the way until she left the house. But the stepsister began to sleep with the brother every night instead and Greg was terribly rejected. He kept this secret with him until he met me.

Hence the pornography and the counseling.

When the uncle died and he inherited the money he began to change. He began to pull back. He began to have more rages. he would rage at the kids and complain that I wasn't doing a good enough job as a mother. He would rage at my horribly meddlesome mother. It was horrible.

He was a recreational vicodin user. No biggy. I'm an old hippy. I've done my drugs. I'm cool with occasional recreational use. But somewhere after the uncle died, his usage increased. He began to get it more and more. I suggested last June that he may have problems with it. He began to order drugs on line. I ddn't know of this stuff but figured it out as time passed on.

I came here and cried to you all. I cried about his treatmetn of the kids and me. I cried because he didn't give me a valentine's day present last year, a birthday present or a mothers day present. we went to counseling over it and he never could come with an answer.

He got worse and worse. I quit coming here because of the intensity of my life. Throughout the summer and fall it got worse until I caught him in a huge lie. He stole my son's ADD medicine and lied about his plans. I busted him and we broke up.

Then we were making plans to get back together and go to new counselor. Then I caught him overdosing on drugs. I called his therapist who dissed me. I called the family. He's now in treatment. I was with him through detox and then to the treatment facility. He calls me every day.

Now he called and said he doesn't want me involved. His mother has been calling me and emailing me multiple times daily and trying to figure out where I stand. She didn't want me to leave him while he was in there. (I'm in love with the guy, why would I just turn away). Then she got upset because I found one of his porno sites and all his porno letters and told him. He fell into a tailspin and wanted to leave the treatment center.

I told her he could handle the truth and how his addictions affected people, me specifically. and that he needed to take responsibility and face his pain.

Now I'm out. Now he is quoting to me things his mother has already said to me. I'm a distraction in his treatment. He doesn't have the capacity at this time to cope with the relationship.

She is all over him. She was all over me and then I figured out she was orchestrating everything.

But nevertheless all this happened because Greg can't cope with things in his life. He has been dealt a bad, bad hand. His mother has never let go.

I am hurt so very badly. I am in the worst shape I have been in years. I'm trying to hold it together.

Please help me.

Thanks
Cindy

I'll pray for ya'!

OMG. I'm so sorry, Cindy. I just want to send you a huge (((((HUG)))))) I don't know what else to say. :(
~phosphorescent

Awwww Cindy, my heart goes out to you. :( I feel so bad for you. You have given and given and given to this relationship. Four years is a very long time. And, despite the fact that you were the one who ended it, your post sounds like you are still very torn. If so, I can understand that. It's difficult to love someone who is not healthy. Our attachment to them grows very deeply. But, it's time for you to think of you and your own needs. And, if ending it with Greg is what it takes, then you have done the right thing. He sounds like he has alot of stuff he needs to work through before he can give to any relationship.

I'll be thinking of you and praying for you tonight and hoping that you'll begin feeling better very soon.


((( HUGS )))

Hiya Cindy, Good to see you! I'm very sorry to hear about your breakup with Greg.....wow this has been a terrible strain on you for some time now, huh? What you really need is a long, candle-lit bath in an enormous tub, and someone to hold you close and wipe away all your tears.....I hope theres someone you can turn to irl. These are hard times to bear all alone.

Cindy, unfortuneately you just have to keep sifting through the `driftwood'. I know its tiring and emotionally draining, and its just horrible having to give up on someone you loved for a long time. But Greg is driftwood. The man for you is in your future, and losing Greg is part of the process of being with your future partner. The man you haven't met yet. I know...its easy to say this, but I'm sure you'll find it to be true. So wipe away those tears and try to look forward to your future with someone gentle and reliable.

hugs to you, Cindy!

If my memory serves me correctly you were helping a friend move and Greg would not help even though you were in a dangerous situation with her boyfriend (he was violent right?). At that point, I offered the services of Matt and I to come assist but you had it all covered.

Well since then, Matt has left me and so it is just I. If you need to talk or you want to just get out, let me know... we are not far from each other.

I was sad reading your post and I know how badly you must truly feel, so grieve now because soon you will begin to see things differently.


-Hugz
gina

Cindy, I too, am glad to hear from you, although I wish you were not in pain. You have invested a lot in this relationship and with good reason. I remember a time when you two were very happy.

Do you recall in the beginning, when you said that he was drug and alcohol free? I guess with the circumstances in his life, he just did not want to feel and deal with the pain. It can be so easy for a recovering addict to go back to using. I hope in treatment, he once again gets his priority's in order and deals with his issues (& continues with followup in reg. AA meetings)

If he is an addict.. what does that make you.... :p MAYBE :confused: an enabler? My gentle point that I am trying to make, is, have you considered going to Alanon? You would get more in person support, to deal with YOUR feelings. Let him have his time for himself in treatment. That probably isn't a bad idea. But you need more than e-hugs and crazy family to support you, so give it some thought, OK?

You have been an asset to this group so I hope you will let us be there for you, as much as you need us. Again, I am so sorry you are in pain, but it will lessen. Please just love your boys... and yourself.
Barbara

You must feel just shattered! I am so very sorry so much emotional devatation has gone on for you this year and now this! Counseling is always a no-brainer and normally good for those who take it seriously. It sounds like he has quite a few issues to through and it sounds like you have been so loving and supportive! What a wonderful person you must be. I read one of the threads that said she really enjoyed your talks when she was new. I very new, I don't even know if I am posting correctly : )
However - I really hope you are getting the support and nurturing that you need - it sounds as if you've been in an enemy camp. Please take some time out to be in a supportive environment so you can look at things objectively. I know you will make any appropriate decisions you need to and still be able to be the correct kind of support for all of those you love so dear.
Take care of yourself and remember others love you and I am sure we will all be sending our warmest feelings to you.

Cindy i'm so sorry you feel so much pain, you sound like such a strong woman. You deserve to be respected and loved. Nothing less. If a partner stole my children's drugs they would be out the door, that is just wrong. No excuses ever. And the point about adult survivors of sexual abuse is that they don't all become perpetrators, but some people who don't resolve their issues do. The secret porn stuff is an indicator to be alert and pay close attention to the safety of your children. I hope it gets better for you and your heart starts to heal. I will put out lots of love to you
chez

Thanks to all of you for your replies as well as all the private messages. It's going to take a while to respond to all of you.

You can't imagine how many times I have reminded myself of those early days when I was so happy to have found a man who was free of drug and alcohol! Now I've learned that he was hooked to vicodin or similar types of drugs. But his addiction was slow and secretive. He certainly wasn't on any drugs when I met him.

His strongest addiction is his sexual addiction issues. They loom larger and we have learned that the drug addiction is a by-product of the sexual addiction. He would feel trapped and fearful of the relationship, go to his trusty internet, and then feel guilty and shamed and then take drugs. Then it just slowly became a vicious cycle.

The sexual addiction isn't children. Oh my gosh!! I never felt threatened for my children.

Stealing the drugs from my son was surreal. It's all surreal. He would steal four or five of them. He did it three times. He was in counseling with someone who I now feel wasn't pushing him hard enough to recognize his responsibility and move on. But the first two times he stole the drugs; he confessed to me and saw his counselor. The third and last time he stole from the pills was when he set up an elaborate lie at my expense, then went to an interactive porno theatre.

It's just been horrible.

For those of you who don't know me; I met Greg in January of 2001, came here and met everyone who were so good to me in welcoming me and helping me through my fears of an age gap realtionship. I am now 50 and Greg is 34. We've been together just short of four years. For the last six months or so I haven't been coming much as my relationship began to unravel.

I am a mom to two wonderful little boys, ages 13 and 9. Between working full time, raising my boys, and being in a broken relationship - well I've just been too depressed really.

It's very, very hard for me. It's hard to put on a happy face for the kids. They wanted to play monopoly last night and I said no. Poor guys. It's like I am walking in another atmosphere. I just wish I could fast forward to get past the pain.

Someone above said something about grieving now because at some point my feelings would change and I would have other thoughts. That was exciting to me. My friends here say I am in my own denial and that I need to let this bad boy go.

I'm working through it slowly I guess, I'm just so confused.

The mother issue bothers me hugely because I feel she is the hugest problem for him and for being so absent in his youth and not recognizing his trauma as a youth. And then to continue to send him money every month since he was 20. And then to tell me and Greg that he can't cope with his relationship and that he needed to take care of himself and not worry about us.

And truthfully I understand that. But I wish she had not pushed his hand. Let him reach that conclusion on his own.

Oh, I better go stuff my turkey. Thanks all. I'll be back to check more later.

Cindy

I went back to my old thread in July. Read the whole thing. I was in distress then and believe I had been for much time previous to the post as well as have continued to be through today.

I see that I never went back to it. I left it hanging. Sort of how I left this relationship hanging.

Apparently things continued to deteriorate. Hello!

Thanks for all of you who responded back in July. It's been hell.

I've got to accept that Greg isn't the man for us. My 9 year old is devastated at the loss of Greg and still waits for him to come back although I have gently suggested that Greg may not be a part of our lives again. I think Tommy has to do this slowly in letting go.

When we broke up in October and Greg took his things; he cried horribly. He hugged the kids and talked to them at length about leaving and having to work out his problems and how much he loved them and felt he hadn't done a good job. They both cried in his arms. It was so very, very sad. I'm crying just as I remember the wrenching pain of that moment. He told them he would be back, he told them he would spend Christmas with them. He told them that he and I would work this out and he would be back.

Then all the addiction stuff came to full presence and now he is in treatment. And clearly he can't be our man.

Tommy still has faith Greg will be back for Christmas. I've told Tommy that he probably will come to visit but may not be in our lives again to the degree that he used to be. I think Tommy is starting to get this. Michael, my older boy who always felt that Greg didn't care for him, has more mixed feelings. He's more quiet about everything. But Greg called the other night and spoke to Michael on the phone and told him how much he missed him and loved him. Michael has never told me about the call but Greg related it to me.

Thank you to all.

Cindy

I won't let this thread die because I never come back. I will respond and listen. Thank you again.

Hope you are seeing a counselor yourself kiddo - you need the support and clarity. You may consider counseling for the kids - in Sacramento I had my young children in a counseling program called "New Legacy". It helped them with understand the alcoholic partner I had at the time. It was worth it. The kids began to realize that reactiveness to situations isn't productive. I know you are in alot of pain - my heart goes out to you. Take some time out to rediscover the love and the embracing relationship you and your children have together. I recommend you keep a distance from your YM until he has several months of solid productive counseling under his belt. If it's meant to be, it will be. Everyone should take at least a full year to grieve any relationship loss and you can't grieve it if you never really separate from it.

Sometimes distance and time gives us different perspectives but knowledge about yourself and your own boundaries is really the most important. Have you ever read the book "Women Who Love Too Much"? It, as well as other works by Bradshaw, Melodie Beatty, Gorski have good information. Remember to take what you can use and throw out the rest.

I know we are all proud of you - you are a lovely person. Take care of yourself and your children - check out rockhounding! My 2 young sons loved it with me - pack a lunch and pleanty of water and just go!

yes my mailbox was full but I just cleared out some old stuff.

Greg just called from his treatment facility. He loves me so much, it's heartbreaking to think that two people who love each other can't figure it out. He also called and spoke to Michael again. He's worried about the kids. yet I believe he is powerless to be the man he thinks he should be.

Funny, I think he could be the man - he was for a short time - but then he broke. He buckled under his imagination.

He wants me to come down and visit and talk about things. I asked him if he wanted me to buck up, to come down and deal with the end. He said he didnt' know what he wanted any more that he was confused with all the treatment and his mother.

I did tell him that his mother was his problem. Hello. Mother; time to back out. Instead of telling Greg how he should live his life and get better, maybe deal with yourself.

Anyway, no matter what I know this guy loves me with all he has to love - and bottom line - that may not be enough. I certainly wasnt happy with it. And I don't think he was either.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Cindy

it's heartbreaking to think that two people who love each other can't figure it out. Cindy... it is not too difficult to figure out. If he is an addict, his relationship is primarily with porn or drugs, not people. To learn how to stay away from something that becomes compulsive for him, he has to work his program.

And I hate to preach... but please try a woman's meeting at Alanon. If you haven't already gone, the right group is just like this place, very supporting and understanding. You will learn tools to help you with your pain as well as how to deal with a person who has the issues that he has.

Yellowrose, I did go to an Alanon meeting a week ago. I actually didn't care it. It was about 10 women and a couple of men who each took turns talking about being happy. A couple of them went on and on. No one was allowed to respond. Then the meeting was over. It was the weirdest thing for me. I didn't feel any connection to what they were saying. My thoughts were more to the tune of 'I'm not gonna live like that'. Maybe I'll try again sometime but I'll tell you with basketball, Pokemon, homework, music lessons, and cooking dinner - I just can't see myself giving up that time.

Sally I would say both those questions are mine. But I think Greg is part of it as well. I mean I want to be done with this stuff but I hate to lose him. Yet I know he's in trouble and it won't be over when he gets out. And I am one of the triggers to his addictions because of his gigantic commitment issues.

He called again today. He's a mess. We can't talk much on the phone without both crying. I am driving down to the center on Saturday to spend a few hours with him and go to a couple of the family classes with him. I am very apprehensive about it though. I asked him if this was to be a visit to outline our ending. Because of course, he called me several days ago to tell me that he would not be continuing our relationship and that he needed to concentrate on his treatment. That does make sense to me but nevertheless we both broke down and couldn't make it through the conversation. I know his mother has been pushing for him to not see me either. She feels he can't cope with the relationship and deal with his addiction treatment. I know he was under the pressure of her control and hysteria. She kept calling me and emailing me play by play of conversations and meetings. And asking me where I stood. One minute she didn't want me to leave him again and wanted me to ride it out with him through treatment.

But then a bad thing happened. After the first couple of days in his treatment program I found his secret website on yahoo. I found all his porno stuff. It was extremely disconcerting. He was calling me on the phone and telling me how great his treatment was and how excited he was to come out and work things out with us and the kids. Then one night he called and I had just accessed the account and told him. He fell apart. He freaked out. He wanted to leave the program.

HIs mom was very upset that I had told him. That's when she really started to wedge against me. But I told her I had no guilt for telling him that I had found the site. He needed to know the pain and suffering he had caused me and anyone else. He is in the right place to learn to live through his shame and guilt over this behavior and to make amends. She couldn't get that.

She freaked. She went down for a meeting and demanded that Greg decide what he would do with the relationship. The counselors told her to step back and let Greg decide on his own. But Greg was under her constant barraging.

That's when he called and said he couldn't handle me being a part of it. And he named the yahoo stuff as one of the issues. I told him the same thing that I told his mother. You can handle it, you must deal with the pain you have caused others and work through it there.

Then some doctor told his mother that she should tell Greg how he has hurt her through the addictions and quit taking care of his every need. She listened to that and liked it. She told me about it. I was sick. It was ok that she should tell him, but it wasn't ok that I told him.

Anyway. So that's it. But regardless of all of this. What do I need? What can I expect out of a relationship? He has so much work ahead of him. I can't imagine he is capable of much in the next few months. Should I let him go?

I love him terribly but like Yellowrose said, he can't really love anyone until he works through his stuff. Four weeks in treatment isn't much. And if I am one of his triggers because he is so afraid of the commitment and his past abuse issues. He escapes from his feelings of insecurity by using porn and drugs. Then he is ashamed because he loves me and he numbs himself again.

Ok sorry I went on for so long.

Thank you all so very, very much.

Cindy

First of all Cindy... I am glad that you tried Alanon. It is not for everyone and not every group is the same. I always went to women's meetings because it seemed the ones that had men, were just not what I needed.

I have never heard of a treatment center telling someone that a PERSON was a trigger because of commitment issues. And I have a long history in working & sponsoring with all types of addicts. You don't stay away from someone because they bring up commitment issues. You work THROUGH those issues... not stay away from people! The only people that one should stay away from is people who are active addicts. That is it.

Why hasn't the treatment center asked you to come to the family support meetings? As his most recent relationship, I am totally surprised by that. Can you talk to his case worker there? Of course I don't know the story like you do, but maybe it is just his mother that is keeping you away from being a part of his treatment process.

Just let go of the outcome, and keep trying to process your thoughts. Keep a journal maybe. You are still in my thoughts...
Barbara

Hey Cin....

Well first off, I really missed you being around....and Im really sorry this has happened.

I think that the good news is that Greg is in treatment, and is actually receiving some appropriate help this time. You said you have some doubt about the counseling he received before.

Are you going to go visit him in the rehab?

I'm not sure what else to say at this point....except Im just really sorry. I know how hard you have worked, and how much you have been through...and how much you two love each other. ((hugs))

Am I being naive if I say that.....now that he is receiving good help with his addiction issues...that maybe he might be a totally different person if he stays the course when he gets out? I know I tend to be overly optimistic... :( I just know how much you all love each other, and it makes me sad.

His mother sounds like she's really wanting to play the martyr role. "Look -- I am the one who has saved him." But, her actions might well enable him to find an excuse to repeat his addictive behavior in the future.

I am surprised that the therapists are not focusing on what may well be the core root of his problems --- his past history of childhood sexual abuse by his step-sister. If that is the root cause, then until he faces and deals with that issue Cindy, then his chances for changing may be marginal at best.

I know this because of having been married to a man who was sexually abused as a child. He also became addicted to drugs and alcohol later in life. Sure, in his case, he later stopped drinking and stopped illegal drugs after he came off the heroin. However, he easily became addicted to prescription drugs during our separation. He never dealt with the core problem --- the fact that he was sexually abused as a little boy.

As for me, I joined Parents United, which was a support group for victims of childhood sexual abuse and for their significant others as well. I joined even the significant other support group even though my ex-husband refused to consider joining to work on his issues. I needed to do something for me to help me understand the effects of the abuse as well as the victim's triggers and my role in the whole situation.

If the therapists feel this is the root cause, it may be something you want to consider joining just for yourself.

Here's a link to the Parents United International site, altho' there's not much there. But, it may tell you if there's a chapter in your area:

http://members.tripod.com/~Parents_United/Chapters/PUI.htm

One of the links on that page goes to the Orange Co., Calif., Chapter, which has a little more info about childhood sexual abuse and the effects:

http://parents_united.tripod.com/Effects.htm

I found it interesting to read there that 70% of adolescent drug addicts were sexually abused as children.

Or, consider attending a different al-anon group. Maybe that one particular group wasn't right for you.

Either way you go, reach out in your community and find some support for you. You have invested 4 years in this relationship with Greg and you deserve to have some support for yourself while you go through this period in your life.

But keep on coming here and talking to us as much as you need to.

((( hugs )))


EDIT: I just noticed you are in Oregon. Here's a link to the Parents United Chapters in Oregon:

http://members.tripod.com/~Parents_United/Chapters/oregon.htm

Yellowrose, I don't think the treatment staff told Greg that I was a trigger. Greg is the one who says I am a trigger. And he told him mother and his mother says I am a trigger.

I think that Greg was planning on involving me in the treatment process but when I found the yahoo site, it sent him spiraling so bad. His mom went nuts, contacted the facility, went to counseling down there with him. I think the meeting they had talked about our relationship and Greg's coping skills.

I am surprised that the staff haven't encouraged Greg to talk more about the relationship and haven't called me down there. But I believe Greg has to be the ultimate decision maker on that. I keep trying to have faith that the treatment staff can see through to the truth and know that Mother is a loving, controlling baracuda.

Whiterose: Our family and couples counselor identified from the beginning of this episode that Greg's primary addiction was the sexual addiction issue compounded by the drug addiction. That one fed the other. She told me about a treatment center in Pennsylvania that focuses on the SA aspect along with the drug addiction. It cost 25,000 and Greg and his mom didn't want to go that far.

You are right - the sexual abuse is the turning point in his life. Interesting and sadly enough was the day he disclosed the abuse to his old counselor and was told he was a sexual addict - well he drove out of the parking lot and looked across the street and there stood his step sister waving at him. he hadn't seen her in years. And there she stood. He was so freaked out by it.

Amina: Toxic relationship. I hadn't come to that conclusion yet although perhaps I had but without the name. I don't know. Put one foot in front of the other. Walk straight. One day at a time I guess, because at this point I don't see it as hopeless. I do see it as a long painful struggle and that is something I just don't know that I can handle it and that I can be the mother I need to be to my children if I can't focus well on daily life because of this huge monkey on my back.

Thank you.
Cindy

Red Daisy:

Thanks for your words. I'm afraid it will be Greg's choice as to whether he can deal with the relationship at this point in his life.

I want to be here for him, but yet I know I can't be half a mother to my children. They need me here at 100% so I must move on with them.

I have no doubt in my mind that Greg loves me very much. But his own feelings of his worthiness, inadequacy, and the whole lot may well interfere.

I have this sinking fear that I am part of the sexual addiciton. Maybe I am one of his sexual addiction fantasies that actually played out. Maybe it's not real to him, maybe I am part of his huge master plan of self destruction. It's extemely scary,

I like your thought of letting things play out as they are supposed to go. I hope my sane brain lets me do that. Unfortunatley my emotions sometimes rule.

Thank you so much.

Cindy

Good to see you here again, and I am so sorry for the circumstances. You and I are about the same age and I can't imagine going through what you are right now.

I have no experience with drugs, addictions to anything so I'd have to defer to the others here with the advice they have given you. We all have our "crosses to bear" and I'm thankful that I haven't had to deal with these types of issues in my life at least.

I think you and I know that it's long past time that you moved on from Greg. I am concerned about what all the drama in your life is doing to you AND your boys. It might not be apparent now how this is going to affect them long term, but I've raised two daughters through a different kind of drama with my husband it really does scar them in some ways. Kids need love and stability in their lives and your life with Greg is far from stable. If you can't find enough reasons inside yourself to let Greg go and let his mom manage him and his treatment, then look to your boys for inspiration. Just tell them that Greg had to go into the hospital because he is having serious emotional problems and is abusing drugs. Be honest as you can with them, without scaring them. Tell them that you hope and pray that the doctors and Greg's mom can help him get better soon.

You need to save yourself Cindy and your sons. Greg's problems are more than anyone can handle. You've done the best that you could by him. Focus on your sons, they do love and need you very much.

Good luck to you. My heart just breaks for you Cindy.

Hugs.
Bub

Aww Cindy, I'm so sorry this happened. Addiction, to those who aren't addictive types, is just too hard to understand.

For what it's worth, IMO, you're totally right. Greg's going to have to be the one who decides how he's going to play this out.

I know Alanon meetings bite, I never found any help there either, but please do read the literature. Realizing that I had NO power over his addiction was the hardest thing I ever had to learn with my ex. Second only to that he had no power over how he made me feel, that was also totally up to me.

Please do just concentrate on you and your kids now, they're probably really hurting too.

Hugs, I am thinking of you, for whatever that's worth.

Hey Cindy,

Boy was I wondering what was up with you guys. And now I know :(

We've talked, but I can't tell you how sorry I am. I really hoped that smoother sailing was ahead and it looks like it's been anything but.

Please try and I know it's as hard as the dickens, but try to take a break here.

I don't think you can or should even try to continue to caretake for this man, for your sake, and he needs to hit his wall and figure out that it's less painful to deal with this stuff than not to.

If you love somebody than the door is always open in the future but he has to understand that there's no soft landing here unless he does what he has to to repair himself. And if he can't or won't, then you need to be intact enough to keep your family's life humming along and to be open to loving from another source down the line.

I know you care about him enormously and that it feels terrible to draw abandoning lines in the sand, but it's as much for his sake as for yours.

Big hugs - whenever you need 'em....

What an enormously long, and draining day yesterday was for me. I drove down to the treatment center and spent the day with Greg. In order to visit, guests must attend classes with the group. Incredible stuff to hear.

Greg and I listened to a couple other people there tell their First Step Stories. Greg has to do his today. He invited me to come today. But he hadn't invited me until then because he didn't want me there. He is trying to draw the line in the sand to coin Desert's phrase. But now he thinks I should be there. Well after almost 4 years, and watching his demise, it makes sense that I am one of the key players.

I have to write him a letter and read it to the group today.

It was good to go though. And while it was tearful for us both, it did give me clarity.

I feel like I can get on with my life now. I think I can go back to living and loving and being the person I've always been. This last month has been a huge drain on me. It started October 17 for this crisis. Of course the last year has been hell in general.

I agree to let him go. I agree that his sobriety isn't the only issue and that he has tremendous work ahead of him to get to a point where he is capable of being in a relationship. He would like to see me waiting for him as he works through it all. I hope I gain strength along the way.

It was cleansing though to be there and I am excited now to get on with my life. But I'm sure I will have ups and downs and I will be back to report to my posse here!

Thanks.

Cindy

Cindy,

I have a girlfriend whose boyfriend was addicted to alcohol/vicodin for most of their relationship. His relationship with his mother was violent (his mother broke his nose once....at least that was his story) anyway.....my g/f said she loved him and would do anything for him and he took full advantage of it.

He did end up in rehab and she'd visit and keep up with his progress, etc.... He ended up resenting her and blaming his problems on her. As soon as he got "healthy" he wanted nothing to do with her. She was shattered. Two things I learned from watching this whole scenario play out. One is, you cannot "save" someone. They will eventually resent you for it. Second, this wasn't just about him. It became very clear that she was getting something out of living her life for him. I came to the conclusion that she just did not want to focus on her problems and her own life and his problems were a great excuse not to do that.

She became so consumed with him that people in her life had to back away. including myself. Sometimes, loving someone is stepping back and allowing them to hit that proverbial "wall" That is what I did with her. She would/could not "hear" anything I had to say to her so I stepped back and she continued on with him. When his stint in rehab was done he was very cruel to her with his words and walked out of her life for good. He didn't give a whit about her pain but she lived for his.

I guess the whole point of this ramble is, if you recognize any part of yourself in my story please don't do what she did. It's not worth it. Relationships like these can be "drugs" themselves. He's got two strong women (his mother and you) that he knows he can lean on.....I would suggest you step back and let his mother come in full force. That will force that unhealthy dynamic the two of them have to come to a head much quicker than if you stay on.

One more thing and I will shut up. People respect those who do not allow themselves to be used. By you telling him that you have to step away and focus on yourself and your children and that you will not be able to be there for could produce a couple of reactions. One, he will be angry at first but then he just might get scared that he REALLY will lose you and that might make him step up to the plate and REALLY try to get his act together or he might just get angry, call you a bunch of names and resent you forever.

Please don't allow him to take any part of you away from your children. No man is worth that. Good luck.

I have been reading about your ups and downs with Greg ever since I joined and we were but a small group. I kept reading what these wonderful women have had to say, as I was at a loss for words. When I read your last post and then the very wise words of the Anima and Marianne, I was relieved that you were going forth in the direction you have decided upon. I think you had mulled this over in your mind many times befoe, but it took this incident to make it come to fruition. You and your children do some first. In another thread it was mentioned that relationships should not be that difficult to maintain, and if they are, they are not worth it in the long run. I am sure you love Greg and he loves you, but sometimes a forever type of coupledom is just not meant to be... and it does hurt like heck, when we discover that truth. We love, and we learn.... and we learn to love again.

All my best to you,
Linda

I went down to the treatment facility for Greg's presentation of his first step. It was him reading aloud his recognition of his addiction, the history of it and the pain he inflicted on himself and others. It was directed at me and his mother.

We then had to read letters we had written to him. It was quite raw to do that. But we did it. Greg read his letter, then his mother and then I read mine. Having been with him these years, his impact on my life and my children were significant and writing the letter helped me see my pain more clearly and that of my children. It also helped me see that I was 'powerless' to do anything else.

My time and work are finished with Greg. It's all up to him.

I chose not to stay any longer than the reading and left before visiting hours. His mother stayed on.

Greg walked me outside and he was crying. We talked about the future or lack of future if you will. He needs to do this on his own. I have to live again without worrying anymore about him, our relationship, and the relationship he has with my kids. He didn't want to say it was over and that was ok. It occurred to me that it didn't matter what he said. I knew for me it was over as it stands now.

I drove away and on the hour long drive home, I kept drifting back tot the thoughts of what he meant when he said such and such, and did he really mean this or that. I would stop myself and remind myself that none of it mattered anymore.

The only thing now is for me to get back to my life. And to leave the rest to him

So in readng the above posts and forgive me but I no longer remember the names of which post and who said what. But there are some notes above that pop out to me.

I certainly believed that I should to be a part of the initial AA process where Greg identifies who he as affected and how. And most certainly I felt that I needed to be a part of that cleansing for myself as much as for him. However I coudn't make that decision - it had to be Greg.

I do understand that relationships end and that we lose our right to to have a place. Greg, however, is so messed up he doesn't want me in his life and he doesn't want me out of his life. One minute (and I'm not exagerating here) he wants to come to the boys music and sports, and the next minute he wants to be away. He is all over the board.

After reading these posts and talking to my inner circle I realize that I have to take my own life back. I have to take it away from Greg and bring it back home to my children. He is unsure of what he wants and he doesn't have a clue what tomorrow will bring in his fast moving recovery.

I've wanted to end my relationship with Greg for several months alredy but was too weak and entrenched in my own issues. I wasn't getting anything from him anymore. I was in my relationshp alone for many months.

Someone above mentioned being a part of someone's recovery as even an addiction. I mentioned in the group today as well as to some friends that the feelings are overwhelming and that the detox and treatment and now into recovery feel like mine. I feel like i've been in treatment, I feel like I am in recovery. I have been in an addictive frenzy. You were so right to have said. And I will not allow myself to be hooked into it anymore.

I do believe that the family member has to have a level of their own recovery from their addicitive partner. But that is where it ends.

I am letting go now and trying to pick up my pieces.


Thank you all very, very much.

On my drive home, his mom called me and wanted to clarify that it wasn't over for Greg and that I shouldn't draw the conclusion that we broke up. she said on the contrary she gained the feeling that we loved each other very much.

She demonstrated strong control issues through the meeting. I hope Greg gets some help in working with her and those issues.

And also who ever above said, leaving now would allow Greg to see his mother relationship as overbearing is so right. I also had come to that conclusion. I note that Greg is trying but still a long way away. He will need some help from counseling on that.

Thanks again.
Cindy

Good for you Cindy. Your post sounds like you are definitely handling this whole thing in the very best possible way.

Dear Cindy,

I've missed reading you. I'm sorry for the pain you are suffering, but I'm encouraged to hear that you are resolved to improve your own situation. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Love,

Rebecca

I have done pretty well today. I'm proud of myself. I woke up this morning and moved forward.

I found myself shaking my head periodically to shake out thoughts. I was aware of myself doing that. Whewy, it's very weird.

I worked through the day and did fairly well concentrating on clients, office issues, etc. The director is out of town and I am the point person so there are lots of things to tend to.

Coming home to my kids. I made my 9 year old practice his violin. He grunted and scowled and stalled the whole way. I coulda killed! I sat with my coffee listening intently. Finally after about 10-15 minutes of repositioning, complaining, starting over, etc, he got into it - a little. Battle no. 1 = Winner, both of us!

Dinner: We sat at the table with no complaints. Everyone ate. We talked. Battle no. 2 = Winner, all of us.

me: checking the clock for times I know Greg can call from his treatment facility. Stop it. stop it. Something else to do? Come here and write you all. Battle no. 3 = Winner, me.

me again: Checking his treatment facility treatment schedule and reading it again. CHUCKED IT IN THE GARBAGE. Battle no. 4 = Winner, me.

Sheesh this is tough. In a few minutes I've got to start homework with the boys. Oh that's a real pleasure.

This is incredibly hard. But it's kind of fun too. And I actually have a smile on my face as I write this. Now that's progress.

Marcy, thank you for your words. Whiterose, thanks.

Ahhhhh. Sigh.

I'll be back later.

Cindy

Cindy, don't forget the rubber band trick!

Also, I know what a major success it is when you have dinner peacefully and get them to do their homework. Ah yes, I REMEMBER the days. Congrats to you... you will be fine. :)

Yeah Cindy!

Big pat on the back!

It will get harder and it will get easier, but keep it up. You're doing great.

And I think Greg, too, will benefit from every last bit of sanity that you bring to this period.

This sure does hurt. I'm working very hard to stay positive and look to the future.

He called last night looking for me - talked to my older son at our house and also tried to call the cell phone. I didn't hear it though because I was at my younger son's basketball game.

I ruminated wondering why he was calling me. It sort of spun me around. I worked over different things to say to him and then would push it all out again so that I wasn't thinking about it.

I'm trying to get stronger and stronger so that I won't be all freaky when he gets out of treatment on Friday.

I'm getting better though. I know I am. Breathe.

Cindy

All day I waited for the phone to ring and it didn't. I'm so mad at myself. I tried to push it all out of my mind and then I would purposefully have myself available during his call times.

I threw out the schedules of his facility so that I couldn't look at his time frames over and over. Unfortunately I think I have them memorized.

But still it's a big deal that I tossed them. I actually thought about fishing them out of recycling and didn't let myself.

His mother emailed me that she called and left a message for him to tell him that his dog, Otis, was back home. She said she left the message in the words of his dog "HI Greg, this is Otis and I am back at Grandma's house now" I just about puiked. Otis had been with me for a couple of weeks.

Maybe that's why he called - to check on his frickin dog. oh that's a nice thought.

Let it go. Breathe. Hug my kids. Hug my kids. Love my life.

Cindy

Cindy, you are dealing with all this very well. Everything you are feeling is normal. It has to be one huge roller coaster ride of emotion. But, you hang in there. You'll become stronger and stronger as time goes by.