The Verdict is In

I'm sure you've all heard by now, but those who might have been sleeping or something, the jury came in, Scott Peterson was given death.

He better darn-tootin' be guilty since he's got the death penalty......

I know......I also thought it would be life imprisonment........but that's just the way it goes ya know?! Gotta live by the law of the land, bummer to be him right now.

The long appeal process is about to begin.

Yep... and in appeals, I won't be surprised if the verdict is thrown out. Just won't surprise me in the least.

At least he'll sit in jail for a while, though. And sweat.

~phos

Well Cali is not like Texas, so even if Death penalty holds, he will be in prison for life almost before they kill him.

The CA appeal process is a long drawn out thing. The jury actually did Peterson a favor. He'll live a lot longer on death row than if he'd have been released into the general population.

There are hundreds of guys sitting on death row in CA, even if he loses all his appeals he'll still sit there a good forty or so years.

Well I'm sorry I am in favor of the death penalty....

the worst thing of all.. and this is what Laci's mother said.. and I cried... the one thing that laci was a fraid of was water and boat movements... so how does he kill her?? On a Boat and drowns... sad sad sad

The ****tail...........

the inmate is injected with sodium thiopental - an anesthetic, which puts the inmate to sleep. Next flows pavulon or pancuronium bromide, which paralyzes the entire muscle system and stops the inmate's breathing. Finally, the flow of potassium chloride stops the heart. Death results from anesthetic overdose and respiratory and cardiac arrest while the condemned person is unconscious. (Ecenbarger, 1994 and Weisberg, 1991)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:fl7RAk93iLUJ:teacher.deathpenaltyin fo.msu.edu/c/about/methods/methods.PDF+execution+drugs+in+california&hl=en


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=245

I thought CA gassed them?

Just FYI... I am not for the death penalty, esp. if there are no reliable EYE witnesses. There are far too many innocent people in prison and on death row. Taking a chance of killing an innocent person is just too great a risk.

The second reason I don't believe in it, is that I am a "New Testament Christian". By that, I believe that forgiveness is stressed more in the New Testament than the ole' "eye for an eye ".

So I don't see Jesus injecting the needle... I can see Him locking someone up and let them spend the rest of their life in prison (without a TV!). :)

Gas Chamber: "A federal court in California found this method to be cruel and unusual punishment. The last use of a gas chamber was on March 3, 1999..."

http://www.teacher.deathpenaltyinfo.msu.edu/c/about/methods/gaschamber.htm

YellowRose, I appreciate your sentiments and share them, although not for the same reasons. I simply cannot comprehend why it is called murder when it is done by citizens but justice when it is done by the government.

Originally posted by Nessa
i agree and i'm shocked he got death... life imprisionment seemed more likely to me.

---totally my sentiment here!!! i didn't think he would got death penalty based upon circumstantial evidences...i don't know...i think he just might get life when his case reaches supreme court...what do u guys think?

Originally posted by molly
.

There are hundreds of guys sitting on death row in CA, even if he loses all his appeals he'll still sit there a good forty or so years. ---gosh, that would really suck badly!!!!!!:mad:

Originally posted by SaltwaterBlues
The ****tail...........

the inmate is injected with sodium thiopental - an anesthetic, which puts the inmate to sleep. Next flows pavulon or pancuronium bromide, which paralyzes the entire muscle system and stops the inmate's breathing. Finally, the flow of potassium chloride stops the heart. Death results from anesthetic overdose and respiratory and cardiac arrest while the condemned person is unconscious. (Ecenbarger, 1994 and Weisberg, 1991)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:fl7RAk93iLUJ:teacher.deathpenaltyin fo.msu.edu/c/about/methods/methods.PDF+execution+drugs+in+california&hl=en


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=245 ---it does sound sort of cruel...why not just shoot them? that's pretty cheap & less painful, isn't it? i don't know...anyone knows?????????

Originally posted by PinkPanther_04
. I simply cannot comprehend why it is called murder when it is done by citizens but justice when it is done by the government. ---i'd wondered about that sometime b4...i c it this way...what if that dude is some serial killer? hm...let's see...anyone wants to chance that dude to be out loose in the general population? if there's a chance for him to escape that jail & commit more killings, wouldn't it be the wise thing to preserve lives of the innocent by killing him?

I cannot condone the state taking someone's life - no matter how cruel the crime . . .

. . . but I also think that such individuals are beyond reform - - so a very long, lonely, pleasureless life (this is what our prison ssytem should provide to such offenders) suits them well.

Originally posted by nightingale
---it does sound sort of cruel...why not just shoot them? that's pretty cheap & less painful, isn't it? Bullets (http://www.teacher.deathpenaltyinfo.msu.edu/c/about/methods/firingsquad.htm) don't always hit their exact target and don't necessarily result in instantaneous death even when they do. Lethal injection is supposed to be completely painless. It's similar to the process of putting a pet to sleep.

And if we're allowing the government to kill people just to stop them from escaping from prison I think we need to seriously improve the security in our prison system. There are plenty of people who haven't committed capital crimes that I don't want to escape, either.

Originally posted by girlengr
I cannot condone the state taking someone's life - no matter how cruel the crime . . .

. . . but I also think that such individuals are beyond reform - - so a very long, lonely, pleasureless life (this is what our prison ssytem should provide to such offenders) suits them well. ---are u saying that you wouldn't mind if that serial killer gets out & u r his next victim? say that u live close by some jail house & u know he's run loose... & u r his next...would u feel differently?

robin, i agreed about the security system need to be checked at...it has happened b4 that some serial killer escaped jail...well, i think that the death penalty is not always well administered but sometimes it's necessary in case of those unreformable serial killers, etc...

I don't believe in the death penalty per se - it should be used only in certain circumstances.

If you have a man who is a serial killer and there has been grave depravity and disregard for human life, I feel that it is not a bad thing to take that person's life. Perhaps my opinions have been jaded given what I saw years ago in school and when working clinicals, I don't know. I just know that if you look at the Manson crime scene photos or any crime scene photos of such a violent magnitude, how can you NOT want the criminals put to death? They showed no kindness or remorse towards their victims. Why should they be allowed to live - and live well mind you - on the state's dollar?

Life in prison might be acceptable over all, but when you've seen a very pregnant and very bloody Sharon Tate or one of the hookers Dayton Leroy Rogers eviserated with a machete via the genetalia I don't know how anybody can NOT agree with the death penalty under certain circumstances.

I know we have a lot of people here who feel that Peterson's case was overall circumstantial and perhaps, it was, but the reality is that there was no other evidence. All roads led back to Scott no matter how often they trod in a different direction. Scott Peterson is guilty of murder and he's got the rest of his life on death row - which I reiterate again will be a VERY long time given the CA penal system - to think about it.

I'm totally against death penalty. If a person is sick enough to take the life of someone, the person deciding to take that person's life is as sick.

There are so many people who have been put to death by mistake and plus keeping them in jail for looooong, looong years before they are actually executed is a horrific crime in itself. It's even worse when people spend years in the death raw and end up being judged innocent. That means having killed the person a million times. So what's left of that person ?

People who commit murders are ill, so why don't we put to death all the the mentally ill preventively ? that will save quite a few murders.

This whole thing makes me sick in the stomack. No human has the right to take another human's life. Killing is killing, a crime is a crime.

you're right Amina, but I would like to add, that life sentence for those sick b*stards is the only answer as far as I'm concerned. If they took a certain path in their lives for any reason, let them deal with their demons away from society.

I saw a documentary one day about a German woman who had the permission to correspond with criminals on the death row and met many of them. What you'd notice is that most of them had enough time to take a good look within themselves and realized what they have done. They ended up either becoming very spiritual or totally different people. That doesn't get them out of jail and it shouldn't. A life is a life, they could have been living among society, but circusmtances made it as such that they will pay the consequences of their acts, and spend whatever is left of their miserable lives locked up.

I'm not in any way justifying the acts of criminal beasts. I'm just saying, and I repeat, answering a crime by a crime is a crime.

Two more things, by putting a person to death, they are punishing the whole family also. The method sounds familiar to you? somewhere in the Middle East ?

The second thing that makes me puke is that mostly people from the poor class end up in the death row. How many criminals from the rich society have been bailed out ?

The system is basically primitive, unfair and criminal. It just doesn't work and doesn't decrease crime. How come people are repelled by the Saudi or Taliban way of beheading criminals and not by Elictric chairs or gas or lethal injections, etc. Is it the method that makes the difference or is it because in the first case it is bluntly demonstrated to the public and the second method is done in the privacy of a jail all clean and nice without blood oozing from the bastard. It's called the ostrich theory. I can't stand the idea, gives me nightmares especially that I have witnessed an execution. Of course, if someone even touched my son I feel like I could kill him/her. But from that to actually doing it.....

Amina, I know you do and I agree with what you said. I was just adding to my previous post and to what you said. I'm sorry, I'm a bit too emotional about the subject.

Be well, you, your family and your loved ones. Hope you will never come across any crime of any sort.

molly & anima said it much better what i was tring to say...

loucine, i do c where u r coming from when u said that those who want death penalty is just as sick...i do c where u coming from...however i do disagree...but i do c where u r coming from...

as far as i know that, i was told by an attorney that about 50% of the ppl on death roll were actually innocent of the crime...50%...wow wee...

anyway, i know that retribution would come someday for those who do wickedly...i will leave it to the heavens... in the meantime...let's work on securing our jail cells so NO ONE escapes out of there....

Please check this out

http://www.dhamma.org/dtdv.htm

I have a tape of this film and I can't help crying each time I see it.

Sorry, Loucine, but that's in another country all together. One cannot compare prison systems or death rows for that matter from one country to another because, frankly, for all their problems and the overcrowding and crime inside the prison system in the states, the United States prison system far outweighs most of the prison systems in the world. Just ask somebody who has spent time in jail in Mexico or Columbia.

According to the prison report - which we receive regularly here at the office - prisons in the US are graded by region and each region has its own problems, such as Amina described. But, at the same time, certain areas give far more privileges and leniency to prisoners who do not deserve it. Formulated rehabilitation is ultimately impossible because you cannot rehabilitate a personality disorder. You can't change a psychopath or sociopath. They are who they are and nothing will change it. Nor will you be able to find people trained enough to even attempt working with them. There's a reason John Douglas and Robert Ressler study these guys - because they know there's no fixing them. (we're talking hardcore here, not petty criminal)

For lesser degree crimes, rehabilitation is a choice. At least that's the 'company line' here at the court. My nephew did some time in a very cushy prison and he came out worse than he went in. I went to school with somebody who did time in Joliet and he came out far better than he went in. So, I kind of agree with it.

Wow, I'm pleased about the prevailing sentiment expressed here, I had mistakingly assumed that most Americans supported the death penulty.

I am opposed to it as you can never be 100% sure that the person did the crime (all that DNA stuff finding people actually innocent etc).

We don't have it here in Australia and Australians are generally quite opposed to reintroduction of it so it is unlikely ever to return.

The last man executed here was in Melbourne in 1967, I was 11 years old and I remember my mother crying about it and trying to explain about it to me as it was all over the papers and TV. The man was executed for shooting a prison officer as he escaped and the Premier of the state of Victoria was determined to hang him despite huge public opposition. Powerful stuff, actually.

Velveteyes

Leave em in jail for bout 30 years let em get f***** by a big guy named bubba made into his b**** do lot of hard labor and then and only then put em to death after all that....u take a life... u do not have a right to ur own thats what i believe...but hey why not make em suffer b4 u take it?....now is that cruel? i hardly think so...but w/e u know;) :D

Dear Molly,

I do not doubt your knowledge about US prisons for a second. Indian prisons are very crowded as well and they're not dealing with pretty crimes. They are dealing with multiple murder cases as well. Before this system was tried, there was a lot of crime and violence within the prisons of India.

Crime is universal and so is rehabilitaion. Why should an Indian prisoner be so different from an American or a Columbian prisoner? A prison should not be producing more criminals. Unfortunately from what I hear and from what Amina described, people go to jail as monsters and leave them as sick monsters. So what's the point ?

The point is that not all prisons are like what Amina described. What she described is very real but there are other prisons with success stories.

It depends upon the prisoners, not the prison when it comes to rehabilitation - but if you're going to look at the over all quality of the prison, prisons outside the U.S. don't even come close to matching up.

The system itself is tainted, there is no doubt about that, but prisons have been producing more advanced criminals for decades and to this date there's no solution for that because if you try the kinder gentler approach on a sociopath or psychopath you're going to find yourself on the end of a losing battle and they'll escape to kill again.

molly, u made a lot of valid point there above...

anima, i heard similar stories...one of them was that the inmates raped each other or something like that...pretty tragic alright...

when i was kid (in taiwan), my father used to tell us to never get into trouble w/ the law b/c of what they do to those who had records, and often when the real criminals couldn't be found, the ones that had any record got the punishment in lieu of just so the police dept wouldn't look stupid and incompetent at their job...so yes i know what u mean there...sad scenarios...very tragic

I would like to add,

I agree that a psycopath or sociopath cannot be changed. But after watching the documentary that I mentioned I learned something although I'm not anywhere near Hinduism or Buddhism or any religion at all.

A person is only able to change him/herself.

The sessions of Vipassana go as follows.

A large number of people gather for 10 consecutive days during which they should not utter one single word, day or night. It is a form of very intense meditation which invites and almost forces the person to look within himself. Thr results have been outstanding. This method does not require a large number of rehabilitation specialists. Just one person to guide the sessions and the rest of the job will be done by the prisoners themselves.

You should deffinitely see the film. It is extremely intense and moving.

look what I just found

http://www.prison.dhamma.org/usprison.htm

at the end of the same link there is this

http://www.prison.dhamma.org/ussummary.htm

actually I went to Google and typed, vipassana in american prisons. there's more.

I will speak no more, must get some sleep, it's past midnight on this side of the planet.

The problem to me,is that our justice system is not perfect. So you have INNOCENT people in prison. Those of you that want to continue with the death penalty, do you want the death of an innocent person on your hands? I don't and that is one reason I am against it.

Another reason is that it is not administered fairly. You have some people getting out in 8 to 12 years! I mean, how do you like that? I don't! And most of the rich ones don't even do time!

Also, while it is not an excuse, but an observation, a lot of crime involves drugs. Our prisons are full of people who are in there just for drug crimes. I do not think that a user should ever go to prison for using. Send them to mandated treatment but not prison.

While I think it is great that they get free college education in some prisons.... I wish my children had the same opportunity without having to go to prison. :D

Well, I would rather ONE life be saved if innocent, while 1000's who are guilty have to be supported. There is no price on a human life. I mean what if it were your child that was innocent and on death row?

Punishment in the U.S. Death Penalty
Number of prisoners on death row, December 31, 2001: 3,581

Median time, in years, a death row prisoner has been awaiting execution: 7.4

Death row vs. U.S. population by race
Percent of death row that is African-American: 42.9%
Percent of U.S. that is African-American: 12.8%

Percent of death row that is White: 55.0%
Percent of U.S. that is White: 82.2%

Percent of death row that is Hispanic: 11.2%
Percent of U.S. that is Hispanic: 11.8%

Percent of death row that is Native American: 0.8%
Percent of U.S. that is Native American: 0.9%

Percent of death row that is Asian: 0.9%
Percent of U.S. that is Asian: 4.1%

Innocence and the death penalty
Since 1973, number of people who have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence : 103

Number of persons executed in Florida since 1977 : 51
Number of persons released from Florida death row with evidence of innocence, since 1973 : 22

Number of persons on death row in Illinois on December 31, 2001 : 158
Number of persons executed in Illinois since 1977 : 12
Number of persons released from Illinois death row with evidence of innocence, since 1973 : 13
Number of death row prisoners freed by Illinois Governor Ryan on January 10, 2003 2: 4
Percent of Illinois death row prisoners whose death sentences were commuted to life or shorter sentences on January 11, 2003 by Governor Ryan after he reviewed each case and found "questions about the fairness of the death penalty system as a whole" : 100%

So what state do you want to live in if YOU are found guilty of murder and you did not do it? Certainly not my state... Texas! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by yellowrose
The problem to me,is that our justice system is not perfect. So you have INNOCENT people in prison. Those of you that want to continue with the death penalty, do you want the death of an innocent person on your hands? I don't and that is one reason I am against it.

Another reason is that it is not administered fairly. You have some people getting out in 8 to 12 years! I mean, how do you like that? I don't! And most of the rich ones don't even do time!

Also, while it is not an excuse, but an observation, a lot of crime involves drugs. Our prisons are full of people who are in there just for drug crimes. I do not think that a user should ever go to prison for using. Send them to mandated treatment but not prison.

While I think it is great that they get free college education in some prisons.... I wish my children had the same opportunity without having to go to prison. :D

This post right here speaks for me. These are the same problems I have with the death penalty and that is why I cannot support it.