Am I *supposed* to be jealous?

Morning all,

YM and I had our first real heated disagreement last night and I would like some input from all of you lovely opinionated ladies :D (and gents, of course).

Heres the deal. YM recently took a new job at a local building supply place, he has been there about 6 weeks. He likes his job, gets along pretty well with his co-workers but has yet to really bond with any of them outside of just basic day to day conversation. He works with 7 other men, all of them married or in a LTR.

So anyway....one of those wretched "toughman" contests is coming to town..you know the kind...where guys just beat each other up street-style for prize money and accolades (whole 'nother thread there, lol) Anyway, YM's store is the major sponsor for this contest.

Friday and Saturday night they were holding competitions for "Ring girls" for the tough man contest at a local bar. I am sure we all know what ring girls are...but if not, they are basically high-heeled/bikini clad women that walk around the "toughman" ring and hold up round cards.

Since Ym's store is the sponsor, the employees of the store were asked to be judges for the ring girl competition. YM did not even tell me anything about it on friday. He did not go. So, yesterday when he gets home form work I hear all about the ring girl thing and how his co-workers all went and what a "wild time" they all had..apparently these girls were willing to do quite a bit to win. YM was a bit disgusted, as was I at the behavior of his co-workers and kept saying.."wow I wonder what the wives/gf's would think"?

He then tells me (last night) "the final round is tonight, and they are all begging me to come, but no way am I gonna go!" I said, "well why not?, I think you should go, you would probably have fun" (keep in mind, he has yet to really meet many guys to hang out with since he moved here almost 2 yrs ago). He looked at me like I was nuts and asked me why on earth I would WANT him to go! He said how all the other guys had to beg and plead their wives, or a couple of them even lied and said they had to do something else...why would I willingly send him off and wish him a goodtime?

I tried to explain that I saw no harm in it at all. I thought it might be good for him to have a night out with the guys. I trust him completely and I know he wouldnt do anything that would cause me any distress or pain. He then said.."so you wouldnt be jealous AT ALL if I sat there for two hours JUDGING half naked women?" I told him of course not, I have no issues with such a thing, I know you love me and I have no reason not to trust you. He got up from his chair in a huff and said, "ya know I find that a bit disturbing, it would be NICE if you were a least a little jealous!!" HUH?? am I missing something here?

YM knows I am not the jealous type, I dont mind if he looks at women and finds them appealing, I dont expect his eyes never to wander...I think that is totally unrealistic and I am never offended if I see him checking someone out. He is well aware of this and I have always told him that is does not bother me at all, I think its natural to want to look at a pretty girl, even if it isnt ME. He is so good about making sure I know that to HIM I am the "prettiest" and the "hottest" and all that, so why should I feel insecure?....hell, I enjoy looking at hot men!, we are only human.

Anyway, I digress (sorry) he was distant and upset with me all night and appeared genuinely hurt that I wasnt jealous. I tried over and over to explain that it was simply because I was secure in his love for me and I knew no one could make him stray. He eventually softened and said he was ok...but I dont know. Of course, he didnt go to the ring girl thing.

So, what do you all think? Am I wrong for not being jealous? should I have just "played" a little jealous since it was obvious he wanted me to be? what would you have done?

Thanks much :)

I don't think you're wrong in not being jealous. But, his feelings are valid to him as well. There's some reason he's feeling insecure right now. You are a beautiful woman. Maybe he is feeling insecure about your feelings for him. Try and find some way to give him some extra reassurance, but at the same time, show him that it's possible to love someone completely and not get jealous over an event like that.

Hi OHLis.. I'll have a stab at it here.

Perhaps he is equating your lack of jealousy with a lack of caring? Also, he did not WANT to go, maybe your pushing him to go again made it seem as if you did not care what he does? Or made it seem as though you did not back him or support a decision he made.

I'm not exactly sure how I'd react. I think if my b/f related this to me, I'd let him know that if he wanted to go, it would be ok, but that if he didn't want to, I'd not push it. I'd also let him know that although I'd not be overly jealous, I'd perhaps give a playful warning that "this is my guy", and "hands off".. said in a joking manner. Something to maybe let him know. He seems to want to feel that from you? I'm not sure. I know that jealousy is usually not a good thing, and can ruin relationships, but I think in some sense a tinge is not totally unhealthy, if it's seen not as jealousy perse, but more of "I care about you, and what you do".

Forgive me for what is perhaps a bad analogy here.. The parent wanting to know where their kids are, who they are with, what they are doing. Compare that with the kid whose parents don't ask or even want to know these things about their child's whereabouts. Which parent seems to care more? I know you are not his parent, he's a grown man.. lol, but I think the same kind of concept or idea may apply in some sense.

You are concerned about him forming friendships.. I say, let him be on that. He'll find his friendships in his own way and time. If he really wanted to go, I think he would have.

Oh good grief, what a silly thing for him to get upset about! K, here's my opinionated 2 cents. I think you have done everything right. I also think maybe either a.) he hasn't really examined what constitutes a healthy relationship and instead is basing his perceptions on the relationships around him, or b.) has an unhealthy perception that jealousy = love. I remember with my ex, TRYING to make him jealous because if he wasn't, I felt unloved...LOL I've come a LONG way since then! I think that society tends to encourage and reinforce the jealousy=love perception, when really it has no place in a healthy relationship. Like any good arguement or heated discussion, maybe this is a good opportunity for him, or both of you, to to learn, grow and discover more about each other and your relationship.

Thanks Gen and WRose,

You both bring up good points....I guess maybe he is feeling insecure about something and we need to find out what...and maybe I do need to show a little more "concern"..your analogy of the parent/child does make perfect sense Gen. I hadnt really thought about it that way.

Gen, I dont feel like I really pushed him, I just said.."i think you should go, you'd probably have fun" I didnt say much more after that about going, since he seemd to seem so SHOCKED that I wanted him to go and then the conversation turned to the "jealous" thing. But maybe I did come off as pushy to him. I guess I was thinking him saying he didnt want to go might have been for MY benefit and I wanted to assure him I didnt mind.

And you are right, I need to not worry about him making friends. I just get concerned sometimes because he seems to make me his everything and never really does anything with anyone BUT me or my kids...and I dont know, that doesnt seem healthy to me, but I guess for him , it works.

hmmm things to think about....thanks guys

b.) has an unhealthy perception that jealousy = love. I remember with my ex, TRYING to make him jealous because if he wasn't, I felt unloved...LOL I've come a LONG way since then! I think that society tends to encourage and reinforce the jealousy=love perception, when really it has no place in a healthy relationship. Like any good arguement or heated discussion, maybe this is a good opportunity for him, or both of you, to to learn, grow and discover more about each other and your relationship.

Thanks Cabin,

You may very well be right, and I think this is one issue where our age-gap can pose a problem. I see this reaction of his as one of immaturity and just lack of knowledge on how a healthy realtionship SHOULD be. His last girlfriend was downright juvenille in some of the things she did and ways she treated him. He was forever chasing her trying to prove his love while she dismissed him time and time again for whoever caught her eye at the moment. He was continually in a state of jealousy, and he claims he did love her very much.

You said your ym hasn't made pals with any guys since he's been in your city 2 years now. Is it possible that he's the type of guy who either likes to have women as friends, or is socially anxious, and that is why he doesn't go? :D

Some guys like to have a bit of jealousy from their women, makes them feel 'worth' fighting for. Gives them a feeling of desirability. There are women who like that too. I admit, on occasion, I have liked it. And, as I look back at it, it was usually during a time when I needed some reassurance of being wanted. Kind of silly, but it so human. I'm not saying your boyfriend is feeling unwanted, it could be something as simple as needing something and not even quite knowing what it is he needs from you. If that makes sense.

*hugs* It'll all work out.

You said your ym hasn't made pals with any guys since he's been in your city 2 years now. Is it possible that he's the type of guy who either likes to have women as friends, or is socially anxious, and that is why he doesn't go? :D


Socially anxious does fit him, yes. He isnt always comfortable in groups of people, I dont quite understand why, but it is an issue for him for sure. I will find when we are together people just tend to gravitate to me as the one out of both of us to speak to. I dont know if I am just more outgoing, or if there is something about me that makes people comfortable talking to me, but I know he is always amazed at how others just talk to me out of the blue and how I just roll with it. He is uncomfortable in sitautions like that.

I would NOT make him go. But it's one of those issues that SO's have sometimes we need to deal with in some manner. Confidence building is what he needs, but I don't know how I would approach it. I don't know him, and you do. What do you think you would do with this?

Confidence building is what he needs, but I don't know how I would approach it. I don't know him, and you do. What do you think you would do with this?

I wish I knew. I am kind of at a loss. I am always complimenting him and telling him how wonderful he is... there is definitely no lack of affection and adoration in our relationship. He always says how I make him feel so good about being him, but I guess maybe he doesnt give my opinion of him a whole lot of credit...afterall I love him, so I am *supposed* to think he is wonderful. I dunno.....

Oh boy...I'm sorry, but I don't see where any guy should be made wrong for feeling that he doesn't want to participate in an event he sees as rather disgusting and degrading to women. I think you are LUCKY to have a guy who feels that way! He sounds enlightened!

He's also being judged for being shy or socially anxious - I think unfairly. Ok, I don't know your guy and I have no idea what real evidence there is to what you're saying, but can you see, maybe, that it's the KIND of guy you're pushing him to socialize with that maybe he doesn't enjoy associating with? Allow him to choose his own social group, please. I know for sure those kinds of guys wouldn't be my choice of pals, nor would they be my man's choice. Not EVER. We'd rather be friendless if that were our only alternative.

I don't see these types of soft-porn events as harmless at all, it actually puts me off to see women supporting them. I think they are really disrespectful and counterproductive. I see nothing about refusing to attend something like this that has any negative bearing on a man's confidence!! He was confident enough to achieve a relationship with a loving woman, why is not being interested in a parade of cheesy teases a problem? Frankly I'm at a loss on that one.

Not to mention that he had enough confidence to stand his ground and not cave in to what had to have been somewhat of a peer pressure situation.

I think his use of the term "jealous" is only for lack of a better one. He's trying to figure out if you really do not value his loyalty and the way he expresses it. Clearly it's something he prizes highly. And here you are encouraging him to hang out with guys *you* are disgusted with? What the heck is he going to gain from that? Are you listening to what he wants out of life, or is it *your* idea of what a man should be like?

Goldie,

The issue really had nothing to do at all with why he didnt want to go or going at all for that matter, I was fine with him not going, for whatever reason he had. I just didnt want him to think he had to NOT go because of me. I wanted to make it clear that *I* wouldnt mind if he went. Again, I dont feel I was pushy at all, I simply said I thought he should go cuz it might be fun to hang with the guys. When he made it clear he didnt want to go, I didnt insist any further. His reaction to my non-jealousy is what sparked the disagreement, not me pushing him to go.

For whatever reason, he wanted me to NOT want him to go, and was upset when I said I didnt mind.

As far as the co-workers go...I dont know them at all, so I cant say I am disgusted with them as men. I thought their behavior was a bit disgusting, but that doesnt mean I think YM would behave that way. He is nothing like that and I know he wouldnt act like that with them or without them. He has always spoke very highly of all of them and likes them all from a co-worker standpoint. He had even expressed at one point wanting to get to know them better outside of work, so I figured here was a perfect opportunity for them all to get together in one spot...and I wanted to make it clear that he in no way was going to catch any flack from me if he wanted to go.

hope that clears it up a bit. :) thanks for your reply

Ok Lissa, thanks for clarifying more of the situation.

I still think it's more about your YM being surprised at what might seem to him as your not valuing his loyalty to you as much as he does.

Possibly, there is more than one issue kind of rolled into one here - your guy may be interested in getting to know these other men more, but it sounds as if he's not comfortable bonding with them over other women's bodies as is is so commonly done among men in our society. IMO it's so unnecessary. HE's happily connected, so I can see why he'd feel that it's inappropriate for all these married/attached men to flock eagerly to an event like this. Not every guy is a "pig" and I applaud those who don't cave to the social pressure to be one.

I'll say again that I think you're lucky to have a guy who seems to have a sense of honor and respect for you. Let him get to know these guys in circumstances that don't offend his honorable sensibilities, I say. :)

(Oh - and I didn't think you ever expected your YM to behave badly, that wasn't my point. I just didn't see the value in encouraging him to be around bad behavior, even if he himself isn't participating.)

Hi OHLis,

You've probably already worked this out for yourself, but I think your boyfriend is mad because in his mind he defended you & protected your relationship, and you didn't appreciate it (because you didn't see it the same ay as he did).

And not only that, this `defense' came at a geat cost to the quality of his relationships with his colleagues. Its sort of like looking a `gift horse in the mouth' type of thing.

I think Goldie's insights were the same as what I would be speculating about the guy.

I personally would be THRILLED to have a man who felt/thought this way about being around that kind of trivialization of women. I wouldn't want to be with someone who WOULD participate in that kind of crap. Now, clearly you didn't see it that way, and perhaps that's part of what he's upset about, but also the baggage he's carrying from his previous relationship may play a part. In other words you SHOW you care by being a little jealous, and you just don't have those kinds of bones.

I think you'll work it out.

Goldie you have a gift with words. I always find myself nodding in agreement. So wise.

Lissa, I can tell you right now that my boyfriend wouldn't attend some event like that either. He would feel it to be beneath him. He has already been invited, more than once, to attend certain get-togethers that involved drinking and questionable situations. He flat out refused, and it sure was a relief to me.

I hope you got it all straightened out now.

Thanks eveyone for your insight and taking the time to reply :)

I have looked at it several different ways since posting here and it has given way to much conversation between YM and I...trying to get to the bottom of why he feels the way he does.

He has a long history of insecurity...most of which I was aware of already....but we have talked more about it and he feels he has made great strides in the confidence department since he has been with me, and for that I am grateful. its a long road to get to where he wants to be, but he is accomplishing it...and he said sometimes the old insecurites just pop up and he cant help it.

He said he wants me to want him to always be with me and not go out with the "boys" or anyone else for that matter regardless of what the event is...but he also realizes that he does on many levels desire male friendship and misses his old buddies from his hometown and wishes he could just "click" with someone so he could have that again. He claims it doesnt even make sense to him, and so it is hard for him to explain it to me...but basically he wants to be with me every minute of every day, and he wants me to want the same...but on the same token he realizes he wants and needs others in his life too...as do I. it is just a balance we are going to need to try and find. Currently we hang out with a group of people every sunday night from 10 until 1 or so...we have the most fun, and for YM I think that is the best of both worlds. We may just keep it that way, since it works.

Thanks again for all your help :)