5 Ohio Kids Allegedly Make Sex Tape

i got this article from another board i am trying to find a site with this artical right now

SPRINGFIELD, Ohio -- Five different Springfield kids have been arrested, accused of taping themselves having sex, NewsChannel5's partner, ONN reported.

The sex tape was discovered just two days ago, when detectives said one of the teens involved showed it to her little brother. He told his mother and she went to the sheriff.

The four girls and one boy, who range in age from 12 to 17, include one sixth grader, three high school sophomores and a senior. They are charged with delinquency counts of illegal use of a minor in nudity-oriented material or performance and pandering sexually oriented matter involving a minor.

The tape is marked "porno" on the side and Lt. Russel Garman said it is a true description.

"I'm not going into specifics of what's on tape. It's appalling," Garman said.

Even more appalling, says the lieutenant, was the girls' reaction when the tape was shown to their parents.

"We expected them to be upset. They were carefree; they had no emotion about it. It seemed to be common to them. They said it's what's going on in the schools," Garman said.

The children were arrested on second-degree felony charges and given a night in jail.

The boy was held overnight in the Clark County Juvenile Detention Center. The girls were taken to the West Central Juvenile Detention Center in Marysville.

"They realized we weren't playing games. It's the real deal; a couple began to cry," Garman said.

And then their parents were called to court.

One mother admitted to problems with her daughter, saying, "She is more unruly as far as the way she talks to me. She has been missing a lot of school even though she got her first interim with an "F" on it."

The magistrate released all five kids to their parents, and put them under house arrest.

whats wrong with kids today :eek:

i got this article from another board i am trying to find a site with this artical right now



whats wrong with kids today :eek:

They have access to technology.

In the old days (before modern medicine), most would be married already. The life expectancy was about 30-35 years.

We have extended adolescence far beyond its natural limits...

But I went to a Catholic high school. We didn't even know what sex was.

Have you ever seen a nun in action?

WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!

Mussolini did say in the spring of 1924 that "a good beating did not hurt anyone."

Maybe that's what these kids need!

whats wrong with kids today :eek:

Not all kids are the same. There are 'good' kids as well. Then we should also ask 'how are they being raised up'! What world are we preparing for them? What values are we transmitting to the next generations?

Today's world has increased the occassions for temptations, mainly through media, and this is the result. But don't think that in the past everyone was good. Adultery, sexual abuse and prostitution are as old as Adam and Eve!

Not all kids are the same. There are 'good' kids as well. Then we should also ask 'how are they being raised up'! What world are we preparing for them? What values are we transmitting to the next generations?

Today's world has increased the occassions for temptations, mainly through media, and this is the result. But don't think that in the past everyone was good. Adultery, sexual abuse and prostitution are as old as Adam and Eve!
I agree,I almost want to homeschool my children,and throw out my tv.

In the words of one of my co-workers “my momma beat me so the cops couldn’t!” And you know what; thank goodness my mother loved me enough to teach me the differences between right and wrong. :D

In the words of one of my co-workers “my momma beat me so the cops couldn’t!” And you know what; thank goodness my mother loved me enough to teach me the differences between right and wrong. :D

Spare the rod and spoil the child...

I have to agree with Ornello here... we HAVE extended adolescence far beyond its natural limits.

"a good beating did not hurt anyone."

Maybe that's what these kids need!

Violence in the home breeds fear, lying and a whole host of other problems. If you cant raise a child well without hitting them, you are either stupid, or just plain lazy.


>>>In the words of one of my co-workers “my momma beat me so the cops couldn’t!” And you know what; thank goodness my mother loved me enough to teach me the differences between right and wrong>>>ninjababe

Children can be taught right from wrong and have very good discipline without being hit. I have 4, ages 7 to 18, not one has ever been struck by my hand or anyone elses. All are honor roll students, all are respectful, kind, well rounded delightful young people that anyone would be proud of. Never hit, not once, none of them, ever. It is completely NOT necessary. To say your mother hit you because she loved you, is very disturbing to say the least. You basically are saying you did the right thing and stayed out of trouble because you feared a beating...that is incredibly sad. No child ever deserves to be struck by an adult, especially not one that they look to for love and protection.

Violence in the home breeds fear, lying and a whole host of other problems. If you cant raise a child well without hitting them, you are either stupid, or just plain lazy.


>>>In the words of one of my co-workers “my momma beat me so the cops couldn’t!” And you know what; thank goodness my mother loved me enough to teach me the differences between right and wrong>>>ninjababe

Children can be taught right from wrong and have very good discipline without being hit. I have 4, ages 7 to 18, not one has ever been struck by my hand or anyone elses. All are honor roll students, all are respectful, kind, well rounded delightful young people that anyone would be proud of. Never hit, not once, none of them, ever. It is completely NOT necessary. To say your mother hit you because she loved you, is very disturbing to say the least. You basically are saying you did the right thing and stayed out of trouble because you feared a beating...that is incredibly sad. No child ever deserves to be struck by an adult, especially not one that they look to for love and protection.




Not all kids respond the same way...

...a good spanking is very instructive to a 7-year old kid.....

Not all kids respond the same way...

...a good spanking is very instructive to a 7-year old kid.....


Really now? Some kids are just born NEEDING a good beating? How many 7 yr olds have you raised? Amazing that I gave birth to 4 completely different children with completely different personalities, but yet none ever REQUIRED a whacking to behave, I guess I just got lucky huh? (not). What exactly does *hitting* a child *teach* them? That mommy/daddy is too lazy to think of something BETTER that doesnt involve physical pain and humiliation? :::gag:::

Really now? Some kids are just born NEEDING a good beating? How many 7 yr olds have you raised? Amazing that I gave birth to 4 completely different children with completely different personalities, but yet none ever REQUIRED a whacking to behave, I guess I just got lucky huh? (not). What exactly does *hitting* a child *teach* them? That mommy/daddy is too lazy to think of something BETTER that doesnt involve physical pain and humiliation? :::gag:::

Children are inherently mischevious.

Quae nocent docent

Did you ever have a child burn his hand on something hot when your back was turned, despite the fact that you warned him? I bet he didn't do it again!

Children are inherently mischevious.

Quae nocent docent

Did you ever have a child burn his hand on something hot when your back was turned, despite the fact that you warned him? I bet he didn't do it again!
But, in that case, the child learned a lesson - touch something hot and you get burned.

What lesson do they learn if they don't clean their room and get hit? Do they learn the consequences of an unclean room? Do they learn that their toys will get lost and their clothes won't get cleaned? No, they learn how to avoid getting hit.

The punishment should fit the "crime" so they can learn the consequences of their actions.

The problem is, that takes time and effort from the parent to enforce. It's simply easier to spank and teach the child to fear the parent. All the child learns is not to piss off the parent - not why the behavior is unacceptable.

But, in that case, the child learned a lesson - touch something hot and you get burned.

What lesson do they learn if they don't clean their room and get hit? Do they learn the consequences of an unclean room? Do they learn that their toys will get lost and their clothes won't get cleaned? No, they learn how to avoid getting hit.

The punishment should fit the "crime" so they can learn the consequences of their actions.

The problem is, that takes time and effort from the parent to enforce. It's simply easier to spank and teach the child to fear the parent. All the child learns is not to piss off the parent - not why the behavior is unacceptable.

1) The burning sensation was far more "instructive" and "persuasive" than your oral presentation, no? Despite your admonistions, the child needs to verify what he's been told...and learns, the hard way...


2) What punishment do you recommend for these kids?

What lesson do they learn if they don't clean their room and get hit? Do they learn the consequences of an unclean room? Do they learn that their toys will get lost and their clothes won't get cleaned? No, they learn how to avoid getting hit.

The punishment should fit the "crime" so they can learn the consequences of their actions.

The problem is, that takes time and effort from the parent to enforce. It's simply easier to spank and teach the child to fear the parent. All the child learns is not to piss off the parent - not why the behavior is unacceptable.


Exactly. Couldnt agree more. All hitting does is teach the child to fear the parent and sneak behind their backs to avoid getting hit.

1) The burning sensation was far more "instructive" and "persuasive" than your oral presentation, no? Despite your admonistions, the child needs to verify what he's been told...and learns, the hard way...


2) What punishment do you recommend for these kids?

1) Yes , the result was a consequence of their actions. Now, if they got hit for touching a cold burner, they wouldn't know why. The two aren't properly linked. They would just try to touch the forbidden thing while mommy wasn't looking. I actually held my child's hand (safely, of course) over a warm burner to show what was there. An ounce of prevention....

2) It's waaay past that now for these kids. I'd reserve the punishment for the parents. Their lack of supervision, sex education and instilling a sense of self-worth in their daughters is the real crime.

Children Learn What They Live
by Dorothy Law Neite

If a child lives with criticism, he learns to condemn.
If a child lives with hostility, he learns to fight.
If a child lives with ridicule, he learns to be shy.
If a child learns to feel shame, he learns to feel guilty.
If a child lives with tolerance, he learns to be patient.
If a child lives with encouragement he learns confidence
If a child lives with praise, he learns to appreciate.
He a child lives with fairness, he learns justice.
If a child lives with security, he learns to have faith.
If a child lives with approval, he learns to like himself.
If a child lives with acceptance and friendship, he learns to find love in the world.

1) Yes , the result was a consequence of their actions. Now, if they got hit for touching a cold burner, they wouldn't know why. The two aren't properly linked. They would just try to touch the forbidden thing while mommy wasn't looking. I actually held my child's hand (safely, of course) over a warm burner to show what was there. An ounce of prevention....



Yes, quae nocent docent...

Yes, quae nocent docent...
Sorry, I missed that in your post.

For those who don't know, it's Latin and basically means "What hurts, teaches" or something to that end.

But, you can "hurt" without physical pain. When my boys refused to clean their rooms, I would go in and pick up a favorite toy and take it away. They learned quickly to get their things picked up, so they didn't lose them. (It "hurt" to lose the toy.)

1) The burning sensation was far more "instructive" and "persuasive" than your oral presentation, no? Despite your admonistions, the child needs to verify what he's been told...and learns, the hard way...


2) What punishment do you recommend for these kids?


the "hot stove" argument is so old and lame...and frankly that mindset is appalling....let them burn themselves so they learn not to touch hot things? HUH? .... If you are tending to your children properly, you would never have to worry about them touching a hot stove. Would you let a kid run out in to the street, get hit by a truck and then say..."well now you have LEARNED you dont cross without looking"? that is just stupid and ridiculous.

Punishment for the sex tape teens? I agree with Kristen, it is too far gone now....something went WAY wrong in those households long ago...most likely a complete lack of supervision or involvement by the parents. If a 12 yr old girl is engaging in sex acts...video taped or not....something is very wrong there and she is seeking inappropriate attention for reasons we will never know... I assure you, no amount of hitting her is going to cure it, it will only make her much worse. I would strongly suggest counseling for all the kids/parents involved.

Sorry, I missed that in your post.

For those who don't know, it's Latin and basically means "What hurts, teaches" or something to that end.

But, you can "hurt" without physical pain. When my boys refused to clean their rooms, I would go in and pick up a favorite toy and take it away. They learned quiclyk to get their things picked up, so they didn't lose them. (It "hurt" to lose the toy.)

What burns, teaches....

The idea expressed in this latin phrase is that 'instruction' comes in two forms: admonitions and unpleasantness or pain. The latter is far more effective, according to this old saying..

What burns, teaches....

The idea expressed in this latin phrase is that 'instruction' comes in two forms: admonitions and unpleasantness or pain. The latter is far more effective, according to this old saying..
Like I said, you can "hurt" without it being physical. I think it make a much more lasting impression.

Like I said, you can "hurt" without it being physical. I think it make a much more lasting impression.

Let's say 'unpleasant consequences on a sliding scale'...

This is a really sad story... I don't think spanking these kids now would accomplish anything..There were obviously some real problems with how these kids were raised...Going a lot deeper than weather they were spanked or not.... I don't have children yet and when I do I dooubt if I ever spank them but I don't think spanking in itself is all bad..It all depends on the child as to whether it is an effective form of discipline....I have one sister who is much older than me...My parents are strict catholics and my sister was spanked quite often. I was only spanked once by my mother....My sister turned out fine and has a great relationship with mom...She surely does not fear my parents...It is strange that all these kids acted that way..

I have one sister who is much older than me...My parents are strict catholics and my sister was spanked quite often. I was only spanked once by my mother....My sister turned out fine and has a great relationship with mom...She surely does not fear my parents


would you say she turned out better than you? isnt it quite possible that she wouldve turned out just as fine without the hitting? And she may not fear your parents today, as an adult...but what about as a child that was repeatedly hit? you dont think she avoided wrong doing for fear of being hit? Since you were only spanked once...you must not of feared being hit...so, what kept you from doing wrong?

There is no way to say whether she would have turned out the same if she was never spanked....And I don't know if she feared my parents as a kid, I don't think so but there is no way for me to know that...I was never spanked because I was a really well behaved child, if I acted out like sis I surely would have been spanked also, I never feared of being hit, the one time I was spanked I felt I deserved it and was more concerned that I dissappointed my parents than I was being punished... In that sense, you are right, the spanking did not deter me, the fact I hurt my parents stopped me from behaving like that again....

would you say she turned out better than you? isnt it quite possible that she wouldve turned out just as fine without the hitting? And she may not fear your parents today, as an adult...but what about as a child that was repeatedly hit? you dont think she avoided wrong doing for fear of being hit? Since you were only spanked once...you must not of feared being hit...so, what kept you from doing wrong?

Maybe I should have rephrased my words differently. Yes, I did get spanked as a child but a slap on the hand is barely a spanking; did I deserve them, yes. My mother raised five children on her own. I’m the second oldest child but the eldest daughter. As the eldest daughter I was to be the example for the other children of the house hold. My family was raised in a traditional Asian household so school was always the main focus. Only my older brother and I were spanked. My three other siblings were raised differently since by the time they were born my family had already moved to the states. My mother grew up in a very tragic environment and seeing all the horrific ordeal on a day to day basis ( http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0110_030110_tvcambodia.html )she didn’t discipline me the way her parents discipline her; and the way my mother was discipline was spanking. So in other words, if what I said confused anyone with my earlier quote then I apologize, but I don’t think that a slap on the hand once in a while is a bad thing especially when I think about the horror my mother grew up in. And no I did not growing up fearing my mother, I grew up respecting her because of where she came from and what she had accomplished and all five of my mothers children are honor role students, two are accomplish classical violinist, and I am the first female in all of my family’s generation to go to college and I graduated college with a science degree with high honors.

I think it's hard for someone who is not a parent to know what best practices to discipline a child... where it looks like most of us are mothers or maybe fathers... In MY mother opinion Hitting is NOT acceptable... Teaches a child violence is ok..... I feel the punishment should fit the crime THIS IS WHY I LOVE SUPERNANNY!!!!

In MY mother opinion Hitting is NOT acceptable... Teaches a child violence is ok..... I feel the punishment should fit the crime THIS IS WHY I LOVE SUPERNANNY!!!!

Not true: it teaches the child that there are punishments for improper behavor.

Children are inherently mischevious.

We are born inherently good, then we learn to be mischeviuos when we have contact with this contaminated and polluted world

''Zero tolerance to violence''

go to hell! :D

How thoughful!

We are born inherently good, then we learn to be mischeviuos when we have contact with this contaminated and polluted world

''Zero tolerance to violence''

On the contrary, we are born without inhibitions. We must learn to respect the rights of others.

Not true: it teaches the child that there are punishments for improper behavor.


Yes its Very True..... Some people all have different views on disciplining children... yes some hit but it DOES show violence....

what happens when another child observes a child doing something wrong they think it's OK to hit them.. and it's not.. Violence TO ME is not the answer... I am a mother... Yes he's only a baby... but My stepson was raised with NO hitting....and he turned out just fine... :)

Children can learn by consequences..... If you do this THIS will happen etc.... Ornello I suggest you watch the Super nanny sometime or Nanny 911....

Violence is not good for anyone.....

Yes its Very True..... Some people all have different views on disciplining children... yes some hit but it DOES show violence....

what happens when another child observes a child doing something wrong they think it's OK to hit them.. and it's not.. Violence TO ME is not the answer... I am a mother... Yes he's only a baby... but My stepson was raised with NO hitting....and he turned out just fine... :)

Children can learn by consequences..... If you do this THIS will happen etc.... Ornello I suggest you watch the Super nanny sometime or Nanny 911....

Violence is not good for anyone.....

Spanking is not violence. There is a big difference...

On the contrary, we are born without inhibitions. We must learn to respect the rights of others.

Ornello... You have to teach your children respect... you need to SHOW your child respect also and that gains their respect....

Do you have children?

Spanking is not violence. There is a big difference...

If your raising your hand to another human being it's Violence....

Here is the Definition:

vi·o·lence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lns)
n.
Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.
The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.
Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force: the violence of a tornado.
Abusive or unjust exercise of power.
Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent: do violence to a text.
Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor.

If your raising your hand to another human being it's Violence....

Here is the Definition:

vi·o·lence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lns)
n.
Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.
The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.
Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force: the violence of a tornado.
Abusive or unjust exercise of power.
Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent: do violence to a text.
Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor.

No, as you can see, spanking is not violence....it's not abusing, etc.....

No, as you can see, spanking is not violence....it's not abusing, etc.....

Read again....

Spanking is Physical Force.... so YES spanking is violence

Here is a definition of Spanking:

Main Entry: 1spank
Pronunciation: 'spa[ng]k
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: imitative
: to strike especially on the buttocks with the open hand
- spank noun

Notice how it says STRIKE with your HAND... So yep it's definatly physical

Not true: it teaches the child that there are punishments for improper behavor.

There are consequences for every action, however no action *requires* physical assault on ones person as a consequence in order to learn from it.

If you were disrespectful to a co-worker you might get demoted, or at the worst, fired, no one would ever DREAM of hitting you for it, if they did, you could have them arrested. It is ILLEGAL in this country to physically assault someone....But yet if your child was disrespectful to you, you would think nothing of hitting them....it is completely acceptable by many, and it shouldnt be. Are children not as valued as adults are? do they deserve no respect whatsoever? If anything, they deserve MORE. It is a cowardly act to strike a child, they are small, defenseless and look to their parents for protection and love, not pain. I dont care if it is hand slapping, spanking, or whatever else you want to call it....it's completely and totally NOT necessary and does no good whatsoever.

Spanking is not violence. There is a big difference...


You really are something Ornello. Striking another person is violence no matter how you want to sugar coat it or what name you want to give it. When you "spank" a child you are HITTING them with the intent to cause PAIN. If that isnt violent I dont know what is.

think about it...a full grown man (or woman) striking a small defenseless child with the sole purpose being to cause them pain....how on earth does that sit well in your brain? how can you possibly defend such a thing? honestly, you cant, nor can anyone, there is no defense to such an atrosity...the best you can do is admit you arent capable of THINKING of a non-violent, more productive way to put a stop to the child's inappropriate behavior, hope people pity your stupidity, and call it a day.

and one more thing, before I call it a night....What is even more twisted IMO is that in this society many people value ANIMALS more than children. If we were to see a big man walking a little puppy and the puppy refused to do as it was told and the man reached down and slapped it and it yelped, we would be HORRIFIED and probably rush to the phone to call the humane society, but that same man could reach down and slap his toddler on the A$$ until she cried in pain for not doing what she was told and most people would turn their heads and keep on going never even giving it a second thought. F'd up? you betcha!!!

You really are something Ornello. Striking another person is violence no matter how you want to sugar coat it or what name you want to give it. When you "spank" a child you are HITTING them with the intent to cause PAIN. If that isnt violent I dont know what is.

think about it...a full grown man (or woman) striking a small defenseless child with the sole purpose being to cause them pain....how on earth does that sit well in your brain? how can you possibly defend such a thing? honestly, you cant, nor can anyone, there is no defense to such an atrosity...the best you can do is admit you arent capable of THINKING of a non-violent, more productive way to put a stop to the child's inappropriate behavior, hope people pity your stupidity, and call it a day.

and one more thing, before I call it a night....What is even more twisted IMO is that in this society many people value ANIMALS more than children. If we were to see a big man walking a little puppy and the puppy refused to do as it was told and the man reached down and slapped it and it yelped, we would be HORRIFIED and probably rush to the phone to call the humane society, but that same man could reach down and slap his toddler on the A$$ until she cried in pain for not doing what she was told and most people would turn their heads and keep on going never even giving it a second thought. F'd up? you betcha!!!

You are so right.... !!! Funny how they treat animals like that and find it in disgust to see a person hit an animal... but its ok to hit a kid...

I do know that some do choose to spank their bottoms or whatnot... Me PERSONALLY don't feel that Hitting or spanking is the way.....

Imo Ornello is a big teaser. He likes to provoke, and he doesn't really believe in what he says.

Usually people who are in favour of hitting children are the ones who were hit as kids. Since they are mentally stuck in the 'denial' stage and do NOT admit that there parents were cowards, disrespectful, and unloving, they justify their parents' behaviour by agreeing that hitting was for their own good.

P.S. Spanking is violence.
Do you want me to list all the psychological effects that violence has on children (even minimal violence)?
Do you want me to list all the unfounded and invalid reasons why parents choose to spank/hit their kids?

If physical punishment worked, states with the death penalty should have lower crime rates.

They don't.

Ever stop to think that the reason that there are people out there who think it's OK to beat up a person that is smaller than them, beat and humiliate women, torture gays or other people that they hate & make them angry, get in fights and hit people when they are angry is because the behavior that they learned growing up is that it's OK to hit when you get mad?

Think about it. Most kids get hit once the parent gets frustrated enough or angry with the child.

Learned behavior.

Angry = OK to hit.

And where is the line? When does spanking become abuse? A smack on the hand? A smack on the butt? A bare butt? Using a belt or big, wooden brush? A switch? A smack across the face? A black eye? A punch in the stomach?

Better not to start at all and figure out a better way to teach the kid a lesson.

But spanking is easiest on the parent. It's quick and easy and feels gratifying that an action was taken. Unfortunately, a "lesson" is rarely learned. If you ground the child or take away something, you have to follow up and not give in. You have to deal with a whiny, crying child trying to get it back. I think that is where most pro-spanking people get frustrated with non-spanking parents. Too many non-spanking parents are wishy-washy and let their kids get away with murder - it's just easier to give in.

But spanking is easiest on the parent. It's quick and easy and feels gratifying that an action was taken. Unfortunately, a "lesson" is rarely learned. If you ground the child or take away something, you have to follow up and not give in. You have to deal with a whiny, crying child trying to get it back. I think that is where most pro-spanking people get frustrated with non-spanking parents. Too many non-spanking parents are wishy-washy and let their kids get away with murder - it's just easier to give in.

agreed. I also think many people assume that if you dont spank, your children lack discipline. Discipline doesnt have to hurt and humiliate to be effective. Kids respond much better to positive actions than negative. There is nothing positive or instructional about being whacked. and you are right, being a NON spanker takes a lot more work, a lot more patience, and a lot more creative thinking...there is no room for being wishy washy.

Kids respond much better to positive actions than negative.
Not to be contrary, because we really agree, but studies show that people are more motivated by the threat of loss, rather than gain.

You'll get more response by taking away a favorite toy, rather than offering rewards for good behavior. Don't know why that is, but it just is human nature. I believe it has to do with fear.

Not to be contrary, because we really agree, but studies show that people are more motivated by the threat of loss, rather than gain.

You'll get more response by taking away a favorite toy, rather than offering rewards for good behavior. Don't know why that is, but it just is human nature. I believe it has to do with fear.

Yup!

The threat of punishment works very well! (Unless the person is demented, as, for example, Hitler. Then, force must be used.)

Has there been an update on these kids? What is happening to them? Are they getting counselling? What interests me most is whit is up with their parents? They should be punished more so than the kids. I just can't fathom children doing such a thing and thinking it is ok...That just blows my mind...

Debbie

I think this thread is very interesting. It has strayed away from the original focus and went to parenting. However, the first issue at hand is these kids having sex and taping it. Is it shocking that these children are consentual sex? or One of the young ladies involved was 12? or They decided to take this acet? or Is it a combination of all three? The think society as whole is very contradictory....we instruct our youth not to have sex, its evil, wait till marriage, etc....yet we promote sex to them on a daily basis (through the form of mediated images, video games, magazines, books/literature, music, etc.). What's interesting about this, is minors having sex in other parts of the world is not seen as such a negative thing. In fact teen pregnancy and STD rates are low in some instances. I think we need to realize that adolescents have a sexual nature and educate them properly about things of a sexual nature. So if they do choose to engage in those activities, they have been informed about things of that nature. However, as long as we act as if sex is this big secret, things like this will continue to happen....because this isn't the first time something this has happened and it won't be the last. A good book to read on this issue is "Harmful to Minors."

Kristen....it's very interesting that you stated the parents need to instill "self worth in their daughters" yet nothing about the young boy that was involved. Was it okay for him to engage in that activity. He does not need self worth?? Or is it that boys will be boys?

As for the parenting issues....there is no right or wrong way to discipline your child. Some believe in the school of spanking and others don't. Both ways has its advantages and disadvantages. What works for some, might not work for others. I was spanked as a child and it took me discipline. I did not fear my parents and they let me know that my actions were wrong and out of order.

Nu :cool:

I think this thread is very interesting. It has strayed away from the original focus and went to parenting. However, the first issue at hand is these kids having sex and taping it. Is it shocking that these children are consentual sex? or One of the young ladies involved was 12? or They decided to take this acet? or Is it a combination of all three? The think society as whole is very contradictory....we instruct our youth not to have sex, its evil, wait till marriage, etc....yet we promote sex to them on a daily basis (through the form of mediated images, video games, magazines, books/literature, music, etc.). What's interesting about this, is minors having sex in other parts of the world is not seen as such a negative thing. In fact teen pregnancy and STD rates are low in some instances. I think we need to realize that adolescents have a sexual nature and educate them properly about things of a sexual nature. So if they do choose to engage in those activities, they have been informed about things of that nature. However, as long as we act as if sex is this big secret, things like this will continue to happen....because this isn't the first time something this has happened and it won't be the last. A good book to read on this issue is "Harmful to Minors."

Kristen....it's very interesting that you stated the parents need to instill "self worth in their daughters" yet nothing about the young boy that was involved. Was it okay for him to engage in that activity. He does not need self worth?? Or is it that boys will be boys?

As for the parenting issues....there is no right or wrong way to discipline your child. Some believe in the school of spanking and others don't. Both ways has its advantages and disadvantages. What works for some, might not work for others. I was spanked as a child and it took me discipline. I did not fear my parents and they let me know that my actions were wrong and out of order.

Nu :cool:


Yes, as I pointed out earlier, we have delayed the onset of adulthood far beyond its natural beginnings in this culture (other cultures, marriage & sex begn earlier). At the same time, we have degraded adolescence through contemptible music videos, etc.

Nu wrote: Kristen....it's very interesting that you stated the parents need to instill "self worth in their daughters" yet nothing about the young boy that was involved. Was it okay for him to engage in that activity. Yeah, it's okay for him but not the girls Nu!! :p :D ;)

Nu wrote: Kristen....it's very interesting that you stated the parents need to instill "self worth in their daughters" yet nothing about the young boy that was involved. Was it okay for him to engage in that activity. Yeah, it's okay for him but not the girls Nu!!


http://bestsmileys.com/signs11/9.gif

Kristen....it's very interesting that you stated the parents need to instill "self worth in their daughters" yet nothing about the young boy that was involved. Was it okay for him to engage in that activity. He does not need self worth?? Or is it that boys will be boys?
Oh, please, it's every teenage boy's wet dream. His self esteem is not being affected - he'll brag about it! The girls, however, would probably grow to regret it. Be real. Hopefully, he'll grow up and at least regret being involved, but I doubt it.

Anyhoo, the reason I really mentioned the girls specifically was this part of the original post:
Even more appalling, says the lieutenant, was the girls' reaction when the tape was shown to their parents.

"We expected them to be upset. They were carefree; they had no emotion about it. It seemed to be common to them. They said it's what's going on in the schools," Garman said.

It only mentions the girl's reaction. If they had any self-respect, they would have been embarrassed and ashamed.

And on that note, there was a recent tv news program that showed that girls these days are being peer pressured into thinking that blow jobs are "OK" and not really sex. Seems like the guys are getting the better end of the deal there. :rolleyes: They think it's the way to a guys respect and they are only being used. I guess that is what I had in mind, as well.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6839072/

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/257-02252005-455319.html

Ummm...I'm so NOT busted, thanks.

Oh, please, it's every teenage boy's wet dream. His self esteem is not being affected - he'll brag about it! The girls, however, would probably grow to regret it. Be real. Hopefully, he'll grow up and at least regret being involved, but I doubt it.

Say what :confused:. Because it's his wet dream.. he makes it a reality.. so that's okay? Is that right?

And, you doubt that male children don't 'grow' on their way to adulthood...to regret their actions? Granted SOME don't, but you're painting with a pretty broad stroke here, Kristin.

Soooo... if it was YOUR son in the tape... you're reaction would beeeee.... ???

Say what :confused:. Because it's his wet dream.. he makes it a reality.. so that's okay? Is that right?

And, you doubt that male children don't 'grow' on their way to adulthood...to regret their actions? Granted SOME don't, but you're painting with a pretty broad stroke here, Kristin.

Soooo... if it was YOUR son in the tape... you're reaction would beeeee.... ???
Umm...when did I say it was "OK"? I said he should regret it, but I doubt that he would. Our society doesn't place the same standards on him that would cause him to regret it, like they would for women. I didn't say it was right, just probably what would happen. Just look at the article - did the journalist even question what the boy was thinking? No. The focus was on the girls.

I just don't think that his self esteem and self worth came into play here.

My sons respect women and wouldn't get involved in the first place. If they did, I would be greatly disappointed. But I have raised my sons to respect women as more than a means to an end and that sex is something for two people that care about each other. Sex is not something that is "slipped under the carpet" in my household - much to my boys' chagrin. I've told them I'd slap them upside the head (exaggerating) if I ever found out they treated a girl that way. We even sat and discussed the oral sex news segment.

Obviously, this boy's parents didn't do things like that.

IMO, as far as the man is concerned in this scenario, it is not his lack of self respect that came into qeustion, it is lack of respect for the girls.

If a young male engages in consentual group sex with three other girls then he has no respect for women. Conversely, if three females engage in consentual group sex with a man they have no self respect or they lack it? Was it wrong for those five to engage in that kind of activity? If so, why was it wrong? The girl who viewed the tape with her mother probably did not show embrassment because she did not see that she had done anything wrong. If you assumed that these were college students would it be wrong?

I'm going to have agree with Ornell, adolescence at a certain point has extended too far in this society. Educate the youth and let them make the decision to engage in these activities. In certain African tribes, group sexual experimentation is accepted.

Nu

and what does self respect really mean? :confused:

And on that note, there was a recent tv news program that showed that girls these days are being peer pressured into thinking that blow jobs are "OK" and not really sex. Seems like the guys are getting the better end of the deal there. :rolleyes: They think it's the way to a guys respect and they are only being used. I guess that is what I had in mind, as well.


Interesting.....Oprah had a show similar to that a couple of years back. However, the article in Phillyburbs that you posted the link does ring true to a lot of teenage girls actions today. I'm not going to generalize and say that all teenage girls are peer pressured b/c they are, but I would say that there are more who are not peer pressured and engage in sexual activities because they want to, they enjoy it, or the excitement of it all. So, I think that argument at certain point has become out dated. Teenagers today are far more sexualized then they were 10 years ago.

For instance, when I was a tutor cousenlor at a Pre-College program on two seperate occassions two of the (high school age) female students came to me saying they were ready to engage in sexual activity. When I asked them why, they stated "I'm just ready....you can only stand so much kissing before you want more." I told them the universal "sex is beautiful shared between two loving people," but I also informed them that if they really wanted to engage in that activity, then take all the proper precautions to protect themselves, talk to their mother's, and contact a physican at Planned Parenthood. So I don't think the girls are getting the short end of the stick these days. I think we sell our young ladies a little short these days....they are not all so sweet and innocent. Even the innocent ones are not as innocent as we think.. ;)

Nu

Interesting.....Oprah had a show similar to that a couple of years back. However, the article in Phillyburbs that you posted the link does ring true to a lot of teenage girls actions today. I'm not going to generalize and say that all teenage girls are peer pressured b/c they are, but I would say that there are more who are not peer pressured and engage in sexual activities because they want to, they enjoy it, or the excitement of it all. So, I think that argument at certain point has become out dated. Teenagers today are far more sexualized then they were 10 years ago.

For instance, when I was a tutor cousenlor at a Pre-College program on two seperate occassions two of the (high school age) female students came to me saying they were ready to engage in sexual activity. When I ask them why, they stated "I'm just ready....you can only stand so much kissing before you want more." I told them the universal "sex is beautiful shared between two loving people," but I also informed them that if they really wanted to engage in that activity, then take all the proper precautions to protect themselves, talk to their mother's, and contact a physican at Planned Parenthood. So I don't think the boys are gettin the short end of the stick these days. I think we sell our young ladies a little short these days....they are not all so sweet and innocent. Even the innocent ones are not as innocent as we think.. ;)

Nu


I honestly believe the girls are more aggressive than the boys, or at least more than often is thought. Girls have to learn so much more about their bodies at a very young age, and they want to start seeing how it all works...

Yes, as I pointed out earlier, we have delayed the onset of adulthood far beyond its natural beginnings in this culture (other cultures, marriage & sex begn earlier). At the same time, we have degraded adolescence through contemptible music videos, etc.

I agree with Ornello here in his statement that we have delayed the onset of adulthood far beyond its natural beginnings in this culture. We have also degraged adolescence by in our society by overwhelming them with sexual messages but yet telling them they must remain chaste. Jeez.....

I have a daughter in college who is 19. I never call her a college "kid". She is a grown woman, an adult. She is fully responsible for her actions.

As far as spanking, I spanked my daughters ONLY if they did something dangerous and I did it at the moment I caught them doing it. I remember when my four year old ran in the street and didn't look...I grabbed her by the hand and whacked her on the bottom with my hand a few times and said you NEVER run in the street like that. Those types of situations happened only a few times when the girls where little but they are still alive and well, at the ages of 28 and 19. They also learned that if I gave them a voice command to do something, they did it and asked questions later. It saved my oldest daughters life when I told her to get off her bike NOW and she did...

Somehow we've lost the whole idea of moderation in our society, whether it comes to spanking, raising children, etc. Too bad we can't teach common sense!

I agree with Ornello here in his statement that we have delayed the onset of adulthood far beyond its natural beginnings in this culture. We have also degraged adolescence by in our society by overwhelming them with sexual messages but yet telling them they must remain chaste. Jeez.....!


...and we wear the pantaloons too tight....

...and we wear the pantaloons too tight....

No kidding!

No kidding!

You have strange customs in this country....in my homeland we wear the pantaloons very loose...

[QUOTE=bubbleee]I agree with Ornello here in his statement that we have delayed the onset of adulthood far beyond its natural beginnings in this culture. We have also degraged adolescence by in our society by overwhelming them with sexual messages but yet telling them they must remain chaste. Jeez.....
QUOTE]

I stated that earlier....we tell the youth one thing, but then promote something totally opposite of what we (as society) instructs them to do. It's very contradictory behavior. I feel we should educate them on sexual matters and let them decide from there.

Nu


Ornello....What are pantaloons??? :confused:

I am going to share an opinion which will go against the grain of some, but it is my view of what is wrong with those kids.

Technology and cultural mores are no excuse for what happened. What those children did was wrong and it is a shame the police had to get involved.

I need to ask this question: where were the parents of these kids? Not necessarily at the time of the videotaping, but prior to this? Too often, in our society, we allow the kids to parent themselves via the television, the internet, or allow the public schools to parent them. If these children were taught any kind of sound values, they were not being reinforced in a positive manner so the kids would not have been as likely to fall into this mess.

Bottom line - parents need to start being parents.

I am going to share an opinion which will go against the grain of some, but it is my view of what is wrong with those kids.

Technology and cultural mores are no excuse for what happened. What those children did was wrong and it is a shame the police had to get involved.

I need to ask this question: where were the parents of these kids? Not necessarily at the time of the videotaping, but prior to this? Too often, in our society, we allow the kids to parent themselves via the television, the internet, or allow the public schools to parent them. If these children were taught any kind of sound values, they were not being reinforced in a positive manner so the kids would not have been as likely to fall into this mess.

Bottom line - parents need to start being parents.


I dont think anyone would disagree with you on this John. Absolutely parents need to be more involved and more aware of what their kids are doing. Unfortunately in this day and age where divorce and poverty are running rampant...kids are often left to fend for themselves because they are either in a 2 parent home where both parents need to work, or in a single parent home where the mom (or dad) has no choice at all but to work sometimes 2 or more jobs just to put food on the table. some of the best intentioned parents have children that end up getting in to trouble simply because they CANT be there even though they'd love to be. It really is a shame and too bad that this country doesnt offer more incentives for a parent to stay home with their children at least during the formative years when it is really important.

I recently divorced after 18 yrs of marriage. I stayed home to care for my kids since the first one was born in 1987....I was lucky I was able to, but I also wouldnt have had them if I couldnt have that choice. My situation changed with divorce and I demanded that their father pay me alimony (he can certainly afford it) so I could continue to raise my kids in the way I always have. It has been a HUGE fight daily with him to get him to just pay the money and allow me to continue raising the children and BE HERE whenever I need to be. He would much rather me go out and work 2 minimum wage jobs and leave the kids to fend for themselves so he could have that money in his pocket. unfortunately, there are a million other men out there just like him.....and many get their way....and the kids are left when mom goes out to work because she has NO choice. ....thats when things go downhill IMO. Unless you have great childcare, or a relative to keep them....you are playing with fire.

I dont think anyone would disagree with you on this John. Absolutely parents need to be more involved and more aware of what their kids are doing. Unfortunately in this day and age where divorce and poverty are running rampant...kids are often left to fend for themselves because they are either in a 2 parent home where both parents need to work, or in a single parent home where the mom (or dad) has no choice at all but to work sometimes 2 or more jobs just to put food on the table. some of the best intentioned parents have children that end up getting in to trouble simply because they CANT be there even though they'd love to be. It really is a shame and too bad that this country doesnt offer more incentives for a parent to stay home with their children at least during the formative years when it is really important.

I recently divorced after 18 yrs of marriage. I stayed home to care for my kids since the first one was born in 1987....I was lucky I was able to, but I also wouldnt have had them if I couldnt have that choice. My situation changed with divorce and I demanded that their father pay me alimony (he can certainly afford it) so I could continue to raise my kids in the way I always have. It has been a HUGE fight daily with him to get him to just pay the money and allow me to continue raising the children and BE HERE whenever I need to be. He would much rather me go out and work 2 minimum wage jobs and leave the kids to fend for themselves so he could have that money in his pocket. unfortunately, there are a million other men out there just like him.....and many get their way....and the kids are left when mom goes out to work because she has NO choice. ....thats when things go downhill IMO. Unless you have great childcare, or a relative to keep them....you are playing with fire.

I would disagree with both of you to a certain degree. There are many factors as to why kids go "bad" or do "bad" things. However, we cannot place the primary blame on the parents. At a certain age (and I believe these kids are old enough to know right from wrong/ make their own decisions) children need to start taking responsibility for their actions. This is probably the reason why the police were involved. It is easy to point the finger at the parents because they are supposed to teach and educate their children. However, if one has done just that, when does it become the childs turn to accept responsiblity for their actions....18, 19, 20? I believe at the age of 12 you are are given a certain level of autonomy and should know right from wrong.

Conversely, children who are raised in single parent households or have working parents are not necessarily going to go bad. There are plenty of children who are raised with stay-at-home mothers who do acts such as this one. Like I said before in an earlier post, there is no correct way to raise a child. There are various different methods that work for some families and there are those that do not work. I was raised in a two parent household where both parents worked, I was left to fend for myself (after school) and it taught me independence (an there are many more like me). You can be the best parent in the world and do everything "right" (though there is no right or wrong way IMO) and you child could still commit acts such as this.

Nu :cool:

I would disagree with both of you to a certain degree. There are many factors as to why kids go "bad" or do "bad" things. However, we cannot place the primary blame on the parents. At a certain age (and I believe these kids are old enough to know right from wrong/ make their own decisions) children need to start taking responsibility for their actions. This is probably the reason why the police were involved. It is easy to point the finger at the parents because they are supposed to teach and educate their children. However, if one has done just that, when does it become the childs turn to accept responsiblity for their actions....18, 19, 20? I believe at the age of 12 you are are given a certain level of autonomy and should know right from wrong.

Conversely, children who are raised in single parent households or have working parents are not necessarily going to go bad. There are plenty of children who are raised with stay-at-home mothers who do acts such as this one. Like I said before in an earlier post, there is no correct way to raise a child. There are various different methods that work for some families and there are those that do not work. I was raised in a two parent household where both parents worked, I was left to fend for myself (after school) and it taught me independence (an there are many more like me). You can be the best parent in the world and do everything "right" (though there is no right or wrong way IMO) and your child could still commit acts such as this.

Nu :cool:
I agree.

I had two younger brothers. We were raised with the same loving & attentive parents and they have been happily married for 38 years.

I never really got into trouble and was very responsible. I got decent grades, kept sex, drugs and drinking to a minimum and took necessary precautions. It's not that I never did anything "wrong", I just was very careful and responsible with my actions.

My brothers, on the other hand, were always getting into trouble. The older of the two, especially. It was a constant battle for my parents with him and my youngest brother was always looking up to him.

Actually, in my early teens I was a latch key kid, whereas my father was "stay-at-home" during my brother's formative years. One would think that I would have been the troubled kid, as I had less supervision.

Conversely, children who are raised in single parent households or have working parents are not necessarily going to go bad. There are plenty of children who are raised with stay-at-home mothers who do acts such as this one.


Definitely, there are always going to be kids that defy the odds on both ends of the spectrum, there are no absolutes. However, I think the risks are much higher for those kids that dont have parents that are available or involved for whatever reason.

Definitely, there are always going to be kids that defy the odds on both ends of the spectrum, there are no absolutes. However, I think the risks are much higher for those kids that dont have parents that are available or involved for whatever reason.


Interesting point...but I wonder if the risks are greater or are the chances of getting caught and the spot light pointed in their direction greater?

Nu

Interesting point...but I wonder if the risks are greater or are the chances of getting caught and the spot light pointed in their direction greater?

Nu


I think it just makes logical sense.... no parent available= increased risk of kid going astray. Research has shown that the more parental involvement a child has the better they do in school, they get better grades, they graduate from highschool at a higher rates, they are more likely to go on to a higher education..etc etc. As I said before there are always going to be the ones that defy the statistics on both sides of the coin, but for every one kid that makes it despite little to no parental involvement there are many that didnt. ...and vise versa on the other side. If you were to go to a prison and ask the inmates if growing up they had a parent that was very involved and supportive in their lives, I am guessing most would say no. I am sure there is much research out there to back that up, it just makes sense.

I think it just makes logical sense.... no parent available= increased risk of kid going astray. Research has shown that the more parental involvement a child has the better they do in school, they get better grades, they graduate from highschool at a higher rates, they are more likely to go on to a higher education..etc etc. As I said before there are always going to be the ones that defy the statistics on both sides of the coin, but for every one kid that makes it despite little to no parental involvement there are many that didnt. ...and vise versa on the other side. If you were to go to a prison and ask the inmates if growing up they had a parent that was very involved and supportive in their lives, I am guessing most would say no. I am sure there is much research out there to back that up, it just makes sense.

No parent available= increased risk of kid going astray....very possible, however, in the incident with the 5 Ohio kids and the sex tape, I don't think that argument/equation works to well. Because as I said before...when a child commits these sexual acts I don't think it is necessarily higher for a child that has no parental guidence to commit these acts, I believe it more so the chances of getting caught. I think Kristen said it best "I had two younger brothers. We were raised with the same loving & attentive parents and they have been happily married for 38 years. I never really got into trouble and was very responsible. I got decent grades, kept sex, drugs and drinking to a minimum and took necessary precautions." And I think that is more the norm, but it is those who get caught, where the light is placed on the parents. I also think society assumes that it something wrong with the parents because these kids go astray. Many comments stated "where were the parents?"....probably at work or home taking care of business. If we educate our children, they will make the right decisions for THEM. The responsibility should be placed on these children b/c they were old enough to know right from wrong.

Nu

No parent available= increased risk of kid going astray....very possible, however, in the incident with the 5 Ohio kids and the sex tape, I don't think that argument/equation works to well. Because as I said before...when a child commits these sexual acts I don't think it is necessarily higher for a child that has no parental guidence to commit these acts, I believe it more so the chances of getting caught. I think Kristen said it best "I had two younger brothers. We were raised with the same loving & attentive parents and they have been happily married for 38 years. I never really got into trouble and was very responsible. I got decent grades, kept sex, drugs and drinking to a minimum and took necessary precautions." And I think that is more the norm, but it is those who get caught, where the light is placed on the parents. I also think society assumes that it something wrong with the parents because these kids go astray. Many comments stated "where were the parents?"....probably at work or home taking care of business. If we educate our children, they will make the right decisions for THEM. The responsibility should be placed on these children b/c they were old enough to know right from wrong.

Nu but you were raised to think if a guy is not packing he is not a man right?? :eek:



but an interesting point anyone think whats going on in the media (sorry if someone has posted this) has basically caused this....for example the paris hilton sex tapes of various other celeb sex tapes...kids seem like they are just following what they see

but you were raised to think if a guy is not packing he is not a man right?? :eek:



but an interesting point anyone think whats going on in the media (sorry if someone has posted this) has basically caused this....for example the paris hilton sex tapes of various other celeb sex tapes...kids seem like they are just following what they see


Good one Chooch....I wasn't raised to think that, my parents never taught me that. However, school girl gossip and myths (if he wasn't packing...indicating penis size, then he wasn't worth your time) was neighborhood talk amongst the girls. What your parents instill in you and childhood talk/myth are two different things. So I don't know where that came from...lol

I said it before, adolescents have been probably making video tapes before this article and the infamous Pamela Anderson/Tommy Lee and Paris Hilton tapes. I guess it's shocking to some, but it doesn't really shock me. In fact, there are far more serious sexual actions going on in school today then making a tape. For instance, in Philly a year ago, (at three different high schools) girls were being sexual harassed and molested by their lesbian peers. About 5 years ago a group of 4th and 5th graders in DC were found in a locked classroom having sex (well attempting) and oral sex. And the boys involved forced the girls to participate. So there are things are far worse then 5 kids consenting to making a sex tape and being unaffected by it (b/c it normal behavior to them...I suspect).

Nu

Good one Chooch....I wasn't raised to think that, my parents never taught me that. However, school girl gossip and myths (if he wasn't packing...indicating penis size, then he wasn't worth your time) was neighborhood talk amongst the girls. What your parents instill in you and childhood talk/myth are two different things. So I don't know where that came from...lol

I said it before, adolescents have been probably making video tapes before this article and the infamous Pamela Anderson/Tommy Lee and Paris Hilton tapes. I guess it's shocking to some, but it doesn't really shock me. In fact, there are far more serious sexual actions going on in school today then making a tape. For instance, in Philly a year ago, (at three different high schools) girls were being sexual harassed and molested by their lesbian peers. About 5 years ago a group of 4th and 5th graders in DC were found in a locked classroom having sex (well attempting) and oral sex. And the boys involved forced the girls to participate. So there are things are far worse then 5 kids consenting to making a sex tape and being unaffected by it (b/c it normal behavior to them...I suspect).

Nui brought that up because it relates to kids thinking of various sexual acts/commiting them you said girls were taught that in another thread so i brought that up as an example.

i remember there was a episode of opera (no i don't watch that show!!! sorry if this was mentioned before) where they said that oral sex was a common as kissing for kids these days...but yea the media forces this to seem like its ok for them to do it.

i brought that up because it relates to kids thinking of various sexual acts/commiting them you said girls were taught that in another thread so i brought that up as an example.

i remember there was a episode of opera (no i don't watch that show!!! sorry if this was mentioned before) where they said that oral sex was a common as kissing for kids these days...but yea the media forces this to seem like its ok for them to do it.


I know exactly what episode of Oprah you are talking about because I've seen the same one. And it is very common these days b/c (in their opinion) its safer then having sex. The belief is that one cannot get pregnant from oral sex...some don't even consider it sex. Techically, after the President sex scandal sex is definited as penial-vaginal penetration.

Let me ask you this...what is your view on this situation?

Nu

I'm a little late in this thread .........but find it horrible !!

I am a single mother, of a 14 (soon to be 15) son. I work, and he is home alone after school until I get there.

Does this make me a bad parent? No. Does this mean my son will be predisposed to make the wrong decisions? No.

Do I believe in spanking? Yes, when he was younger. Spanking NOT beating. However, he is now beyond spanking .......and in to taking away his beloved things .......music, guitars, friends, phone works much better.

I also have a friend who is a stay at home mom, heavily involved in her sons life (who is also 14), involved with his friends, social life, activities, etc. HE IS HORRIBLE !! He drinks, smokes, does drugs, fighting, in trouble with the law.

In my opinion, once children reach a certain age, the decisions are theirs, you can only hope/pray that you have taught them values and instilled proper morals / thinking, etc that they will make the right choices when you aren't around.

MANY times the parents are not to blame.

I'm a little late in this thread .........but find it horrible !!

I am a single mother, of a 14 (soon to be 15) son. I work, and he is home alone after school until I get there.

Does this make me a bad parent? No. Does this mean my son will be predisposed to make the wrong decisions? No.

Do I believe in spanking? Yes, when he was younger. Spanking NOT beating. However, he is now beyond spanking .......and in to taking away his beloved things .......music, guitars, friends, phone works much better.

I also have a friend who is a stay at home mom, heavily involved in her sons life (who is also 14), involved with his friends, social life, activities, etc. HE IS HORRIBLE !! He drinks, smokes, does drugs, fighting, in trouble with the law.

In my opinion, once children reach a certain age, the decisions are theirs, you can only hope/pray that you have taught them values and instilled proper morals / thinking, etc that they will make the right choices when you aren't around.

MANY times the parents are not to blame.

I totally agree with you Thesedays....the point I was trying to make in earlier posts.

Nu :)

I'm a little late in this thread .........but find it horrible !!

I am a single mother, of a 14 (soon to be 15) son. I work, and he is home alone after school until I get there.

Does this make me a bad parent? No. Does this mean my son will be predisposed to make the wrong decisions? No.

Do I believe in spanking? Yes, when he was younger. Spanking NOT beating. However, he is now beyond spanking .......and in to taking away his beloved things .......music, guitars, friends, phone works much better.

I also have a friend who is a stay at home mom, heavily involved in her sons life (who is also 14), involved with his friends, social life, activities, etc. HE IS HORRIBLE !! He drinks, smokes, does drugs, fighting, in trouble with the law.

In my opinion, once children reach a certain age, the decisions are theirs, you can only hope/pray that you have taught them values and instilled proper morals / thinking, etc that they will make the right choices when you aren't around.

MANY times the parents are not to blame.


Again, there are no absolutes. Your friends son obviously has issues that stem from what no one knows....there are a gazillion factors when raising children many of which we as on lookers have no clue whatsoever about. I have a very close friend that stays home and has a daughter that is completely out of control, I couldnt understand for the life of me why this kid was into so much crap, I know her mother so well and it just didnt click...come to find out her husband was very cruel to the daughter and I didnt have a clue, nor did anyone else, she was far too embarassed to tell anyone until after they were divorced, so, there is just no way to now...We arent in peoples living rooms, we dont know the family dynamic, it is simply impossible to know. The point of all of this, Johns post and mine, was to say yes, indeed, parents need to be involved and know what their kids are up to and not leave the parenting up to the school or TV or some other outside influence. I cant see how anyone can disagree with that, but if you or anyone else does....that is certainly your perogative.

My post was not meant to offend, or imply anyone is a "bad mom". As far as your son, you have no choice but to leave him alone after school, that doesnt make you bad or anything of the sort, it does however give him opportunity to get in to things you may not approve of because no one is there supervising him. You may have some type of check system, or a neighbor, or what I dont know, again, it is impossible to see in to other peoples lives....but it is only logical to assume that a teen child left unsupervised is at greater risk of engaging in inappropriate behavior than one who is being supervised, in *GENERAL*. Now, your son may be a very responsible young man and you may be able to trust him to never do a thing, but you cant assume that all kids are going to be like him. What I am saying is, in GENERAL kids left unsupervised will test the waters and will be tempted to do things they know their parents wouldnt approve of MORE so than kids that are supervised. It just makes sense. I do believe statistics would back up my claim as well....if anyone wants to do some googling to find any studies.

Also, everyone is going to know someone that goes against the statistics...ie your son, and your friends son, my friends daughter, that doesnt really prove much unfortunately. I stay home, and my kids have never been in trouble, dont smoke, do drugs, or run around...however 2 of my closests friends that work have teens that are younger than mine that are involved in sex, smoking pot, drinking, etc. I just went with one of them to the police station last friday night to collect her 14 yr old daughter who was caught drinking at a party at a friends house. The police were called by a neighbor. My friend was working, and her daughter was supposed to be home watching her 11 yr old brother, but took off with the friend instead. So, is that evidence enough for me to say that ALL teens will do such things? no, of course not, but the risk IS greater when there is no one there watching.

As far as spanking goes. I never said or implied spanking is equivalent to beating, I will however refer to it as what it is, hitting. It seems many spankers have an issue with calling it hitting, and prefer the nicer sounding term "spanking". I stand firm behind my opinion that no child ever deserves to be hit by an adult, it is humilating, not necessary, disrespectful, and sends a bad message.

Just to clarify, I didn't think you equaled spanking to beating. Regardless of others opinions, I still believe in spanking when needed.

Example .......when my son was three he threw his first (and only) fit in the middle of wal-mart, he wanted something, I said no and he threw himself on the ground, kicking and screaming ........I asked him several times to get up, he would not, I picked him up and swatted him on the butt ......he was shocked and instantly stopped ..........he NEVER threw a fit again. My stay at home mom friend's daughter throws a fit EVERY time we are in the store (she is 3) and my friend "ignores" it .......the fit goes on anywhere from 3 - 20 minutes, this happens every time.

I do not worry about my son being home alone (right now). I feel as if I have instilled good values / moral / thoughts into him and that he will continue to make the right choices.

Some children / teenagers mis-behave regardless of the parenting, however, at times it's usually the parents that are looked at for their childrens faults. Which, as we all know, is not always the case ..........but still makes you feel like a "failure" as a parent.

Teens arrested for having sex? Ok wait...excuse me..."taping it"? The DA clearly has too much time on his hands.

These teens were under age, one was 12, it is absolutely the DA's responsibility to investigate this...

Again, as far as the spanking issue, I think if you surveyed adults who were spanked growing up, most would say it did not have a negative impact on them, just the opposite. And there is a big difference between hitting and spanking, not only in what they imply, but what they entail.....My parents never "hit" us...We are perfectly normal. I think :)

Teens arrested for having sex? Ok wait...excuse me..."taping it"? The DA clearly has too much time on his hands.

These teens were under age, one was 12, it is absolutely the DA's responsibility to investigate this...

Again, as far as the spanking issue, I think if you surveyed adults who were spanked growing up, most would say it did not have a negative impact on them, just the opposite. And there is a big difference between hitting and spanking, not only in what they imply, but what they entail.....My parents never "hit" us...We are perfectly normal. I think :)

All jokes aside, living in a major and working in the legal system I highly doubt that DA would prosecute a case like this. I think in a area where crime is less frequent (murders, drugs, petty thefts) cases like this make headline news. Also lived in Ohio for a number of years and work in the legal system there.

However, I would like to think what laws did these kids break per sa (especially since all parties involved were under 18). Somebody's parents must have called the authorities believing that the children involved were older. I find it very interesting that they had charges pressed against them, but it never stated by who.

Nu

However, I would like to think what laws did these kids break per se

Same here. I fail to see who got hurt (other than the parents). There's no issue of statutory rape or assault. The worse thing about this is that if these kids do in fact get prosecuted and are found guilty (for what, I dont know), they become listed as sex offenders.

Think of this. Grab your coffee and ponder this: you had normal, natural sex and your govt is labeling you as a sex offender. With that label comes a lot of grief. They are chased out of town, their addresses are listed in registries, they have to register with each new city every time they move, etc. Today, "sex offender" is synonymous with child molester.

Say what you will about the 12 year old involved. I was after sex since before 12. I just didn't succeed till 15.

We have effectively criminalized sex in all forms, whether it is breast feeding in public, taking pics of your naked infant, etc. Sad for a country that throws the word "freedom" around a lot.

I agree with Weebil.

Me too for what its worth :)

Same here. I fail to see who got hurt (other than the parents). There's no issue of statutory rape or assault. The worse thing about this is that if these kids do in fact get prosecuted and are found guilty (for what, I dont know), they become listed as sex offenders.

Think of this. Grab your coffee and ponder this: you had normal, natural sex and your govt is labeling you as a sex offender. With that label comes a lot of grief. They are chased out of town, their addresses are listed in registries, they have to register with each new city every time they move, etc. Today, "sex offender" is synonymous with child molester.

Say what you will about the 12 year old involved. I was after sex since before 12. I just didn't succeed till 15.

We have effectively criminalized sex in all forms, whether it is breast feeding in public, taking pics of your naked infant, etc. Sad for a country that throws the word "freedom" around a lot.

Excellent point Weebil....I think we view our minors through rose colored lenses. It's high time we realize that sex and sexual activing amongst minors is a regular thing and has been going on since this country was founded.

Nu

Excellent point Weebil....I think we view our minors through rose colored lenses. It's high time we realize that sex and sexual activing amongst minors is a regular thing and has been going on since this country was founded.

Nu

Well, since a lot longer than that, actually...