I need some advice...

I met a younger man (19years) he is 27 I am 46 on line in a chat room. I have no idea how we started IMing but we connected so hard that he came over that night - drove 2 1/2 hours. I met him outside in the night and we made love for 4 hours - we were so perfect together - like a dance. He called non stop the whole week and came up for labour day weekend. We both are going through a divorce and share the pain of that with each other - however, he still has lots of anger issues and still drives past her house to see what she is up to...To make the drama bigger, he also had a lover during his realtionship for 4 years.. which he has ended it with but still drives past HER house and logs onto the computer to "spy"on what she is up to on her webpage...
He assures me that it is all over with but that he is still attached emotionally and still hurts from it all. I have similar issues with my abusive "ex" but have NO desire to drive by his house to see what he is up to....
My lover assures me that he has no interest in anyone else and we have vowed to tell each other if we want to see other people....Last night he called me very late - 11 pm and was very vague about his where abouts....I did not ask but he offered something that was nebulous - "helping friend with some stuff"....
He goes into moods of being depressed and happy - we live far from each other and do not see each other often - yet he calls me everynight -

Not sure how to deal with it...

I tried saying to him that I felt he had issues and that I felt it would better that I step out of the picture til he gets his head together. He was quick to say that he wants me and has no troubles in his head....and does not want me to step aside at all. So .... I am seeing him this weekend...

Any thoughts on how to deal with this so I stay emotionally sane to see if it can go anywhere? i am pretty confused as to what I am doing...I have many men available to me and yet I find myself turning to this guy over and over...
WHAT is the attraction??? He is a mechanic who did not finish high school - I am ivy league educated - lived all over the world - speak 5 languages - accomplished artist - he cannot spell words like "everey" "allways" "qite"....Has never been anywhere - and yet when I just sit with him on the stoop, the world feels perfect - I am happy and calm - he makes me laugh like no one else - and yet has NOTHING to talk about....yet it feels timeless....and I miss him terribly when we are not together....WHY?
He drove 45 mins just to give me a hug when I was sad.... he is sweet sweet sweet....and yet he will go into these obssessed anger about each of these women and go into a funk.....Do I let him go til that clears up or just hang with him and be a friend as he goes through it....Sometimes he is too mad to make love...

I have met his parents.... they have NO idea my age.. no one has even asked the question because I do look very much younger and he smokes A LOT and looks older... but I think his nice normal white bread parents will FREAK out when they find out my age...will people think I am ruining a young man? I just NEVER expected this to EVER happen!! I am a health freak - he smokes so much and eats like crap - NEVER touches vegetables....I am a dancer he NEVER does anything physical that is not part of working...

WHAT is going on here? CAnnot tell if this a good thing for me or not!!!!!!

help! WindDancer

Hmmm...my first impression of all this is that it just doesn't sound good.

It seems like a strong case of infatuation that was born out of need. It seems that you two do not have enough in common by way of lifestyle to make a serious relationship out of this. Right now, HE sounds like his head is in a pretty bad place.

The attraction between the two of you is understandable, there is always a lot of electricity with a ow/ym relationship, it's the nature of it, but looking at this situation as an impartial outsider, it does not look good for any sort of balanced relationship.

I would provide support to this man, be a friend to him...but spare yourself the heartache of getting seriously involved with him because he sounds to me like he could change on a dime because he is still so conflicted about his ex and his divorce.

Please be careful here.

Thanks D and J for your thoughts ~ I WAS dating others - just dating whomever I pleased - was having a good ol time - ....feeling free and sooo happy to be done with the ex...and then... him....WHY do I keep thinking about him?? He was the one who asked me about telling each other if we date others....I was fine with it because I wanted to see where this would go... but I am wondering if he was cheating on his wife for 4 years with the girl down the street -maybe this guy has a pattern....?? Don't know him well enough - and not sure I want to stick around to find out. I will tell him that we should date around - that it is healthier for both of us to get "out there" after marriage drama -makes more sense any way....I am still incontact with my other beaus...they keep calling and asking me out and I keep saying "no" and sit dreaming about this ym....so weird...Would you think it is ok if I tell him that I am willing to be friends and still sleep together? I absolutely love making love with him - very good sex with him...Good sex with the other guys too.. but this guy fits in my body shape so well.. well you know that feeling.... it just fits well...hate to give that up....or do you think should drop it all together?
The anger he has is the silent type - he just gets broody and introverted - not hitting things and yelling...but I can feel it is anger ....

WindDancer

Hmm...do you see a pattern with your abusive ex and this angry, silent guy?

Sounds like the abusive angry type is what you're familiar with so you may be going for it again. You'll need to learn more about yourself (preferably not dating meanwhile) to find out why you're attracted to this kind of guy. Of course, usually it has something to do with one's parents (trying to get an abusive father's love?).

An Ivy League education, with 5 languages...this is not likely to be a good match with the uneducated guy who has nothing to say, and you know this.

I'm also very educated and know that I need a highly intelligent partner, who loves learning, to be happy - he doesn't have to have the same *kind* of education I do, but has to have the capacity and thirst for knowledge. And he does. Ravenous learner, this one. :)

And so much other drama you mention...not good. A lot of people think they can have a casual thing while still looking for Partner Right - it just about never works that way. It's much better when you're not spending any energy in a dead-end situation, so you can give the right person your all.

wow.. ty ladies - this is so helpful -to get a view from several people like this!
I have been through therapy to figure out what is with the abusive guys...I have never had an abusive boyfriend but both men I married were abusive... and each one - I married each within one year of dating them and they were absolutely evil and horrendous!!!
My mother was abusive - and what I believe I am doing is finding an abusive man and hoping to turn them into a kind and loving mother!!! LOL! MY GAWD! Talk about insane!!! I have not spoken to my mother in 25 years - she slept with my boyfriend in college :( and then tried to sleep with my next boyfriend who kicked her out the door. And would you know that my soon to be ex somehow found my mother on line and now he and she have a "relationship" on line?? He shares stories about our kids with her and tells her about his day etc.. she tells him about her garden and life (she is married) - and the thing is my "ex" has NO idea I know.... I found the emails....!! but have not said anyting to him because it would thrill him to know I was so devastated by it!! But what kind of mother does this?? This guy hit me and emotionally and verbally abused me for years... and she does not even email my brothers(who have a very formal relationship with her) to tell them he is emailing her - somehow she gets off on this - she was always in competition with me and it made me feel so awful while I was growing up:(

So this has to do with betrayal.... and this ym has a ton of that in his past... jesus.. am I trying to turn him into a kind and loving mother??? LOL!

TY for the food for thought....and heads up....

Yeah - the sex...it is true that when it is great you get emotionally attached which is what is happening. My other guys are nice guys - feels good but not GRRRRREAT - so therefore.. I am not emotiaonlly attached!
Now I gotta really evaluate the sex... is it the "familiar guy" that I decide is the best sex because he fits the familiar abusive profile? Maybe the other guys would feel like grrrreat sex if they fit my "profile".... hmmm

I need to reprogram my inner "program" seems like....

Ok - how do I do this? Maybe I make a list of things I want in a man and look for those traits in my dates? and not make excuses for the bad stuff and push it in the background... my god.. that sounds easy but my god I can tell this is going to be HUGE to change - I have to deal with feeling WORTH being treated well! oh god I feel overwhelmed - I get this weird feeling of not being worth being treated well.... oh my god..... how bad feeling this is....to not feel worthy of being treated well....I have become so used to be ill treated that I put up with it so easily...How do you teach yourself that you are worth being treated with kindness and consideration? How do you change that???I am realizing that it is so deep - like weblike inside me - invading everything....I work so hard telling myself that I am a good artist even though I am successful... everything is tainted with that "I do not deserve to have - to be happy.."

My mother never told me I was talented -she pointed to others saying that they had REAL talent... never me - even though i would win every art contest - always the laed dancer - I was nevr the REAL talent - and each of my husbands never supported my art - acted very blah about my artistic side -

This ym is kind and sweet but TOO wrapped up in his grief and loss still - very self involved - very accident prone - talks negatively about everything - my god WHAT am I doing??? Another person who does not believe they deserve happiness?? He says that his father said that he let him down in everyway - that he never did anything right.....

My god - 2 hurt children trying to mend parental wounds....

Ok - I am supposed to go see him tomorrow - He races a car and asked me to watch him race....I want to go - and I think I will sit with him on that stoop and talk about all this and tell him that I am here as a friend always - that we both need to take a hold of our lives before climbing all over each other - deal with pain and anger in a constructive way - "do" him and leave! lol! oh my.....He told me he is pertrified to get close to anyone because being left is the worse pain he has ever felt. His wife left him for his best friend and his lover decided that she wanted to make it work with her boyfriend...so he has lost 3 significant people in the course of 8 months... Do I walk away as well?? Doesn't feel "right" to cut all ties with him.. I want him to be able to call me if he needs to talk things out....What do you think? Is that still too much contact? Should I leave completely? i "think" I can do it.... but maybe I am still not "strong" enough and will fall into it.... damn I do not want to think that .. I want to think I can stand strong - be a friend and move on.... cannot tell if I am fooling myself because he fits the "profile" and i am trying to hang onto him - cannot tell at all .....

sigh.. WindDancer

Now I gotta really evaluate the sex... is it the "familiar guy" that I decide is the best sex because he fits the familiar abusive profile? Maybe the other guys would feel like grrrreat sex if they fit my "profile".... hmmm

I need to reprogram my inner "program" seems like....

Wow...GREAT thinking wind! See...most people can't think in this direction at ALL. They can't see that our perceptions of something as "concrete" as sex CAN be influenced by preconceptions. That's why so many people are completely bamboozled by "good" sex. To them, "the sex is good" so it's supposed to mean the relationship has merit. They will not analyze WHY the sex seems good, to them it is an absolute value and they are unable to see that it isn't an "is."

And all the things you say about self-worth and deserving happiness, and you and this guy being 2 hurt children trying to fix that - you got it...this is CLASSIC relationship "self-medication." All it does is try to fill holes and it does a miserable job at that. Relationships are for when you're ready to build UP from the baseline, not for filling perceived deficiencies to barely GET to a baseline.

You say you've been in therapy...and it hasn't helped change your behavior or inner feeling about yourself. (I make no bones around here about my dim view of most courses of traditional therapy, won't go into the reasons in this post.) There are other things you can do that WILL be effective, I'll PM you. What I also see is a mindset I used to have..."how can *I* do this" - in other words, you're trying to do it all yourself. These things are best done with help, for as you see, having others look at your situation is productive.

There is hope winddancer, if you are really ready to leave behind negative patterns. (A lot of people SAY they want that...but they DON'T do it. The stuff they do that doesn't work doesn't work...but it is...FAMILIAR...) :)

my god - yes Goldie -- any positive direction you can turn me towards, I would SO SO appreciate. I have 2 kids and I do not want them to grow up with this bad pattern - i am aware that they have already picked stuff up - but if I can change the "energy" so to speak - they can learn that one can change things that are negative - And I'll be giving them a HUGE gift - ( It seems to be easier to do things for others rather than myself....I am realizing this as I write - it is hard to do things for myself - feels "selfish" somehow - which I KNOW is absurd - just writing what is coming up for me). But somehow this seems VERY dire and important to DO since this will affect my children - and my god I do NOT want to pass this on to them - they are my joy and my light....
I am going to see the ym racing today and will be back tomorrow - Already, when I talked to him last night, I felt I had another head space after reading what everyone wrote - I felt like an army behind me - I did not feel alone and scared. I felt "myself" somehow - words flowed I was calm - I think I am gogin somewhere else finally!! I think this is the "I" you were talkgn about - and yes "I" always do it alone - and I am so tired of tryign to figure it all out alone - I have been reaching out lately to strangers on line - it has been SO much more helpful than gogin to friends - obviously no strings attached - But it was this guy who I was talking to about the YM who directed me to this site - :)
Thanks for caring ~ It is amazing that someone cares to help and who does not know me ~ so yup! any direction you can point me to get this old "stuff" changed woudl be so good.... I guess THIS is REAL MAGIC - changing the near impossible into something else.. my god...what a monumental task - it looms so HUGE in front of me
.....yikes....I feel like I have to rip something out of my solar plexis.... I feel something there as I write.... I want it out.
This is SO helpful to write!!! my god - I am "feeling" lots of stuff...I feel less stuck...
thanks for being there!
WindDancer

Winddancer ~

I'm from the 'good side of town'. I almost married a guy from way far on the 'other side of town'. I grew up in a very affluent area. He grew up very poor, the youngest of 6 kids, no parents (both died when he was young).

I was finishing my degree in Science when we met. He never finished high school.

I was heading into environmental research. He was a mechanic.

I was done with 'experimenting'. He was struggling with drugs and alcohol, and was (sort of) separated from his (now ex-) wife. (That's a whole separate story.)

We had a great time together. And, yes, the sex was great. And marrying him would have been the biggest mistake of my life.

There were other issues (he was a complete control freak, for one). We thought we could overcome the differences in our backgrounds, and if everything else had been okay, maybe we could have.

I believe that he learned a lot about himself while we were together. Most importantly, I believe that his self-esteem skyrocketed because no one around him had ever made him feel like he could ever do anything with his life other than what he was already doing. Even while we were together and he began to expand his interests and began taking certain tests for certain certifications related to truck and auto repair, his family would slam him down. They would laugh at him or make comments to him that he thought he was better than they were! All for trying to accomplish something new and to try and increase his lot in life.

This is just a very small sample of the examples I have of the struggles we experienced and would continue to experience. Plus, societal programming negatively affected his demands and expectations of me and the relationship. (He is 5 years older than I am, so there was likely to be only so much 'change' in his views, especially with the pressure of his family - with whom he is very close.)

Bottom line, like Goldie said, "An Ivy League education, with 5 languages...this is not likely to be a good match with the uneducated guy who has nothing to say, and you know this." It's not just the difference in education. There can be LOTS of differences - big and small - that could be present. And you've already identified some, above.

As for being FWBs, well, if you already have feelings for him, it's probably not a good idea. FWB hook-ups can be fun and even fulfilling as a friendship - I'm certainly not against them in the right place and time. ;) But I remember when I first met the guy I was talking about above. I never intended to become seriously involved with him because of the many, many differences. My best friend told me "Be careful who you spend your time with. You are likely to become emotionally attached whether you mean to or not." And she was right.

Hey SG - thank you for sharing your story with me...my god... this ym is the youngest of 5 boys....and like NO education - knows NOTHING about ANYTHING - WHAT the HELL do I see in him? And what I have never been able to figure out in therapy or on my own, WHY WHY I have alwasy been attracted to the "bad lower class boys"...???? I have NEVER dated a guy for the same "class" as me - lotta nice guys but not "mainstream" - involved in drugs - motorcycles - This guy is a drag racer as are his 4 brothers. I went to the track with him last night and his brothers - and can I tell yo uI loved it there - watching them race - the noise, the trashiness - His car won - I love just sitting with him doing nothing - talking about nothing - there is no pressure - no need to use my mind - I just feel so relaxed - and the bad thing is that I cannot seem to end it with him - we just feel happy together - I think we are both suffering the same divorce pain thing -and to sit with someone who just knows what you are feeling and is just there for you - I think we both are in the wounded trying to heal stage and maybe we find company in that? My friends ALL tell me to drop him like a hot potato - I have other more "promising" prospects - an artist who is NOT starving - good looking - interesting... and a high power lawyer who is a good guy... and others... so WHY do I just keep saying no to them when they ask me out and find myself sitting on the stoop with ym - hanging out doing nothing???

This is so not good....and yet I don't seem to be able to make break....feel so weak and tired.

WindDancer

And how wonderful it must be for both of you to come together and forget each other's lives without the alcohol. Without the need to talk, be human, look beyond the pain, deal with the pain of lost, grief, insecurity, maturity, adulthood, just a wham bam thank you maam.

I do think eventually all good things must come to a close. Right now I would wager you both are not ready to really examine this relationship too much. It fits your lifestyle very much and it asks nothing in return and you're both fulfilling your agenda.

At this point, just wait it out and let the relationship ride its course. At a later date there will be enough time to really sort out your feelings, it won't be easy, but problems don't go away just because you're in a different relationship. Your marriages ended, which tells me that not only were your partners in fault, but you both were too, and since you have allow a time to be healed, eventually your real selves will come spitting through and you'll see exactly what it is that has draw you either more together or just plain apart.

Paris