One word of warning

Hi,

You slightly introverted men out there who are trying to start a relationship with an extrovert older woman. Please be careful. They probably have huge amounts of life experience and good manners. They will rule you. They probably chose you for your good looks and/or good sex.

It will be good at first but when things develop she will dump you. She will get bored of your childish behavior and depending on the type of her previous relationship, she will get tired of being your 'mother'. She feels she can impress you more than you her! Her ex was probably rich with good manners and expensive presents to offer all the time.

So be careful if you are not only after sex. Most probably there is nothing you can impress her with. She has seen it all, and if she is active and easygoing beautiful woman, she will get any man she wants. And she will probably stay single forever, trying to find her prince.

But if you younger men want a challenge, the go for it! It's an opportonity to change yourself to the better and impress your 10 year younger woman the same way her 10-20 year older man did previously.

Life is shallow.

Thank you, my 2 cents.

okay, this is one of the most provocative post I have read in a long time...

Tell me is this your conclution of every older woman, because you have been hurt once yourself?

I agree with joesltrouble..... a provacative first post! so please do tell more about your statement, because I could say the same thing about younger men...but I won't, because each person is different....

Jake,
I sense your hurt. Well, you've come to the right place for support and many wise and good listening ears (although perhaps your approach could be worked apon..we are sensitive folk here)

Jake, its natural to look for some answers when you have been hurt.....to turn away from what you think may have been responsible for hurting you. I would urge you to consider that personality, and not age, is responsible for what you have experienced.

We all have our stories here, but I can say that I love my younger fiance as an equal, as most of us do.

Sorry to hear that you're in pain.

Tell me is this your conclution of every older woman, because you have been hurt once yourself?

I don't think he's talking about all older women. He said it was a warning if you're an introverted ym with an extroverted ow.

Actually, I guess you might possibly call my g/f a bit of an extrovert... maybe. Maybe not though. You could probably call me an introvert, I'm definitely shy anyway.

I definitely have to say that life is not shallow. It's only shallow if you decide to spend your life thinking it is and associating with people who are that way. My life is very un-shallow thank you.

Well....

I'm going to say, basing this on my experience with the women I have come to know on this site....

I think that older women have learned a lot of life lessons, and they have come to the point where they realize the things that are TRULY important. I actually think they are much less likely to be impressed by money, expensive gifts or flashy cars. I think that they have learned the true value of finding someone who accepts you for exactly who you are, and treating the other person in kind. This leaves a man in the enviable position of only being judged for who is and the actions he takes, and not necessarily by how he looks, what he does for a living, what he owns or how much money he makes.

I also think most of the women I have met are self-sufficient, and don't need to rely on a man (or anyone for that matter) to get by. Therefore, they are selective in who they get involved with. They don't "need" a man; therefore they don't settle for the first one who comes along.

I also believe that a lot of older women have learned the hard way how they deserve to be treated in a relationship. They may set the bar high, because they know they deserve to be treated with dignity, respect, love and compassion. I think on the whole, they are strong enough to walk away if their needs aren't met AND, possibly because they have already "been there, done that", be quicker to realize when a relationship is not going to work out and move on without dragging it out.


So, to just kind of wrap it up...I believe older women are confident independent women who choose to date only the BEST younger men, and for the right reasons. They have learned what to expect from a relationship and from a partner, and won't waste time or settle for less, because they don't have to. They have learned to "weed out" potential mates who are interested for the wrong reasons, and have learned to look for the qualities that are truly important.

GIves Jo a standing ovation!!

Hi,

You slightly introverted men out there who are trying to start a relationship with an extrovert older woman. Please be careful. They probably have huge amounts of life experience and good manners. They will rule you. They probably chose you for your good looks and/or good sex.

It will be good at first but when things develop she will dump you. She will get bored of your childish behavior and depending on the type of her previous relationship, she will get tired of being your 'mother'. She feels she can impress you more than you her! Her ex was probably rich with good manners and expensive presents to offer all the time.

So be careful if you are not only after sex. Most probably there is nothing you can impress her with. She has seen it all, and if she is active and easygoing beautiful woman, she will get any man she wants. And she will probably stay single forever, trying to find her prince.

But if you younger men want a challenge, the go for it! It's an opportonity to change yourself to the better and impress your 10 year younger woman the same way her 10-20 year older man did previously.

Life is shallow.

Thank you, my 2 cents.

Your two cents sounds about right, you are in a relationship with an older woman with whom you are having financial issues. Deal with them in an adult manner!!!
Get on with your life!
Ali

I have found with SOME men, if you break up with them, an interesting phenomena happens. You go from this impossible pedistal to a "wicked witch" that tricked them. Then it gets better.. the guy (or gal ?) makes ALL women with purple hair a witch.

While this sceniaro makes the poster feel better with his anger, it circumvents one important aspect of relationships... the process of learning more about OURSELVES and growing as a human being. So the OP will probably set up the same scenario repeatedly, thus reinforcing his perception...

How true YR! From reading this post I felt that someone had been dealing with financial and power issues in the relationship more than the strictly emotional ones. I just can't shake the feeling that this is a money thing, and the OP's own frustration over his own position in life.

AWESOME post Jo! And this says it all...

I believe older women are confident independent women who choose to date only the BEST younger men, and for the right reasons.

You got it!!!

So for the YM...if you aren't in the BEST category...then either get yourself into it (for real, not just to "impress" someone...man I've always hated guys who try to "impress" me), or stop whining.

And BTW, if you think being the "best" means having the typical outer trappings and material things, then that would be your first mistake. Being the best has to do with who you are BEING, not what you HAVE.

Smart people don't go around pretending to be experts, spouting stereotypes and trying to get others to agree about how negative they think things are. They look at themselves and ask how they can improve so they can have what they want.

Good luck and welcome to ageless.

So for the YM...if you aren't in the BEST category...then either get yourself into it (for real, not just to "impress" someone...man I've always hated guys who try to "impress" me), or stop whining.
I don't believe I'm reading this. :rolleyes:

So what word do you use to refer to guys who don't fall into the "best" category? "Losers?" "Slackers?" "Chaff?" "Scum?" Imagine if I rewrote this and substituted the word "YM" with "OW" and substituted the word "guys " with "girls". Do you think I could do that without getting flamed here?

Jake,
I sense your hurt. Well, you've come to the right place for support and many wise and good listening ears (although perhaps your approach could be worked apon..we are sensitive folk here)

Jake, its natural to look for some answers when you have been hurt.....to turn away from what you think may have been responsible for hurting you. I would urge you to consider that personality, and not age, is responsible for what you have experienced.

We all have our stories here, but I can say that I love my younger fiance as an equal, as most of us do.

Sorry to hear that you're in pain.


I agree with Bella_D. You are obviously hurt and angry. It would be helpful to know more details about your situation.

And try not to generalize about all extroverted OW. I'm sure that not every single one of them is the same way. :)

So, please come back here and give us more details about what happened.

I don't believe I'm reading this.

So what word do you use to refer to guys who don't fall into the "best" category? "Losers?" "Slackers?" "Chaff?" "Scum?" Imagine if I rewrote this and substituted the word "YM" with "OW" and substituted the word "guys " with "girls". Do you think I could do that without getting flamed here?


Good point Mark----IF Goldie were talking about the YM's income, his physical appearance, the size of his penis, the car he drove, the condo he owned, the vacations he'd take us on and gifts he'd shower us with, and various and sundry OTHER superficial shallow requirements.
I believe we are talking about his being a good decent honest and loving person and she's clearly stated that.

How could either sex be angry for the other wanting The Best in the context Goldie states?
We are all fallible human beings however we DO all deserve the best and should aspire to being the best IMO.

Come on now, Jake--every relationship poses risks.

Please get over yourself.

Come on now, Jake--every relationship poses risks.

Please get over yourself.



Is that the same kind of advice that you'd offer an older woman who posts here after being hurt by a younger man's shallow treatment of her?

:(

If an OW came here bashing all YM in the same ridiculous manner--YES. Exactly the same.

Buying into whining like this is extremely codependent.

I too at first thought he was bashing ALL OW, until I re-read his post. In fact, it was Rob's post that made me take a second look.

I don't think he's talking about all older women. He said it was a warning if you're an introverted ym with an extroverted ow.

I think he's hurting and angry about something that has happened between him (introverted YM) and her (extroverted OW). I am hoping he'll come back and share more information.


edited to add another comment because I just noticed your statement:

Buying into whining like this is extremely codependent.

How can you assume to know so much about a person based upon only just one post they have written here? How do you know he is "whining" and not reaching out in anger and hurt like so many other women have done here?

I don't feel it is being "codependent" in this situation to want more information from a poster who has posted one time before I feel I have enough information to be able to give him advice.

Come on now, Jake--every relationship poses risks.

Please get over yourself.

Honestly, if (and I hope not) my bf and I break up and I come here whinning and crying and not holding it together, this is the first advice I would like to receive. Because it is a fact.

I try to keep my eyes open to the fact that a long-distance, age-gap, intercultural, interracial relationship poses so many risks that they can only be overcome by love, perseverance and plain stubborness.

So for the YM...if you aren't in the BEST category...then either get yourself into it

Ditto to this too. I am not talking either about cars, jobs, houses, physical appearance or college degrees. I am talking about honesty, morals, communication, being loving and respectful, and yes being strong enough to be an equal partner, even a leader, despite their youth.

I also think that as you find manipulative, shallow older women that want men only for sex, the same can be said for younger women... and men of all ages for that matter.

What happened was that I stopped being a man and she felt she was not treated like a woman (sex roles were twisted). It ended quietly.
I've never had these types of problems with younger women.

She wanted so many gifts, time and attention I could NEVER afford. It wasn't purely about money (but money played a big role).
I can tell you she had seen it all. For example, when I asked her to eat with me in a restaurant, I made the mistake to select "a" restaurant.
If it was "a" restaurant, it was a typical experience and she decided to tell me what restaurants women like, and "is this all you can offer?".
To her the restaurant had to be a very special one, in a special place in town. This was just one example of many. She also wanted to teach me how women should be treated.

That may sound odd, but she was treated wery well in her previous relationships. She wanted the BEST man around.
She also treated me like no woman had treated before, good food and presents, from parties to quiet romantic dinners with special wines and cigars.
I was bombarded with so much attention and care in so little time I got dazzled and lazy; I didn't realize I had to provide even more.

She wanted a rich, very extrovert man who could provide her with better experiences than I was able to provide. This was the reason why our story ended.
But I feel my experience is quite unusual. However, if a man is 10..15 years younger, it's probable that the OW has received better treatment from an OM with wealth and power.
I still don't understand why women want a 10..15 years younger man. Probably the guys don't have the capacity to provide (and their etiquette probably is not good enough for important gatherings).

My rambling here is not about YM/OW but about power and experience in general. It wasn't a purely bad thing; now I know better how to impress women (women like attention, don't they?).
I just wanted to warn that these women probably have more to offer to the younger man than the other way around! It requires very good self confidence from the younger man.

To Jo-Admin: how do you define "BEST younger men"?

What happened was that I stopped being a man and she felt she was not treated like a woman (sex roles were twisted). It ended quietly.
I've never had these types of problems with younger women.

She wanted so many gifts, time and attention I could NEVER afford. It wasn't purely about money (but money played a big role).
I can tell you she had seen it all. For example, when I asked her to eat with me in a restaurant, I made the mistake to select "a" restaurant.
If it was "a" restaurant, it was a typical experience and she decided to tell me what restaurants women like, and "is this all you can offer?".
To her the restaurant had to be a very special one, in a special place in town. This was just one example of many. She also wanted to teach me how women should be treated.

That may sound odd, but she was treated wery well in her previous relationships. She wanted the BEST man around.
She also treated me like no woman had treated before, good food and presents, from parties to quiet romantic dinners with special wines and cigars.
I was bombarded with so much attention and care in so little time I got dazzled and lazy; I didn't realize I had to provide even more.

She wanted a rich, very extrovert man who could provide her with better experiences than I was able to provide. This was the reason why our story ended.
But I feel my experience is quite unusual. However, if a man is 10..15 years younger, it's probable that the OW has received better treatment from an OM with wealth and power.
I still don't understand why women want a 10..15 years younger man. Probably the guys don't have the capacity to provide (and their etiquette probably is not good enough for important gatherings).

My rambling here is not about YM/OW but about power and experience in general. It wasn't a purely bad thing; now I know better how to impress women (women like attention, don't they?).
I just wanted to warn that these women probably have more to offer to the younger man than the other way around! It requires very good self confidence from the younger man.

To Jo-Admin: how do you define "BEST younger men"?


I do understand your view now and why you feel that way. But not all women had rich OM or men their age. I was married 10 years and believe me, I wasnt overflowed with gifts, etc...and than when I got divorced I was pretty much on my own to raise my 3 children financially. I struggled like hell. So, this doesnt apply to ALL older women.
I dont want a YM to provide for me. I also dont want to provide for him. I just want someone I can be equal with and that we can help each other and enhance our lives. Havent found that yet.
Is that too much to ask?
I am used to provide by myself so it sure is not in my priority list. Love is first, friendship, understanding and caring.
I dont even have a house. I have a good job but being on my own and still having 2 children at home aint easy (16 and 20). Since my ex husband doesnt help much. And I dont expect another man to fill his shoes.
each relationship is different so you cant generalise regarding this. You have to learn to know the person and also make sure next time you dont find yourself in the same situation.
My two cents
Faith

I'm truly sorry about your experionce.. read around a little here on ageless and you will find that there is a lot of OW that are not like that :)

I'm about to marry my guy who soon will be 20 and I do not expect him to provide for me, but we both wants to build a life together.

And yes, I may have more to offer than a girl that are 20 because of my life experionce... but he also have what I need.
To be honest, he have more to offer than any man I've ever met (any I'm not talking money).

I dont want a YM to provide for me. I also dont want to provide for him. I just want someone I can be equal with and that we can help each other and enhance our lives. Havent found that yet.
Is that too much to ask?
I am used to provide by myself so it sure is not in my priority list. Love is first, friendship, understanding and caring.
I dont even have a house. I have a good job but being on my own and still having 2 children at home aint easy (16 and 20). Since my ex husband doesnt help much. And I dont expect another man to fill his shoes.

I totally agree with you Faith, and I think you've done very well there! :)
Sorry to hear you've been hurt Jake, and i'm sure some others would appreciate for the warning.
Sounds like she's being trapped in that illusion world; high ride lifestyle and for sure, it's very tempting of a lifestyle.
Let's see if I can sum it up....
I'd rather to have a simple meal with whom where my heart is happy.....
....than to have a fancy meal in a fancy restaurant where my heart is not there.

But I feel my experience is quite unusual. However, if a man is 10..15 years younger, it's probable that the OW has received better treatment from an OM with wealth and power. Oh dear heart, if only it were true! :p A lot of men with wealth and power only want younger women! :rolleyes:

My husband is ten years younger than I am and we've been married for over ten years. I've always been financially ahead of my husband but I can honestly tell you that it has never impacted our relationship. I wasn't attracted to him for the way he "could take care of me" I was and continue to be attracted to him for the companionship we share--we enjoy each others company, have many things in common and like doing things together.

You could so easily run into the same type of demanding mess with a woman your age.

I think you just picked wrong this time.

Doesn't mean all of us are that way.

Chin up and remain open.

Being jaded is not very sexy.

jake, i am sorry your heart got broken. but my ym is the extroverted one and i am the shrinking voilet. i hate the spotlight, he is comfortable in it.

i am successful, so is he, we are not together because either one of us benefits financially as we are both doing very well.

opposites sometimes work really well together, like my husband and me, sometimes they do not, i am sorry you were used but stereotyping om/ym is not right either.. i wish you in the future the love you deserve.

rina and adam me(46) and adam(25)

If an OW came here bashing all YM in the same ridiculous manner--YES. Exactly the same.

Buying into whining like this is extremely codependent.


Amen to that...maybe someone should do a thread on codependent behavior here...I can think of alot of people here whom would benefit greatly from it....whining and thinking you're a victim = codependent behavior...it's actually a pretty simple concept..but evidently a hard one to grasp.

If an OW came here bashing all YM in the same ridiculous manner--YES. Exactly the same.

Buying into whining like this is extremely codependent.

To be fair, this did actually happen a couple of weeks ago I seem to remember. A woman came here and moaned about ALL ym (as far as I can recall). A few ym actually got a bit upset about it, but I seem to remember her receiving nothing but kindness from pretty much all the women.

I have no idea why I remember things like this!!!!!

She wanted so many gifts, time and attention I could NEVER afford. It wasn't purely about money (but money played a big role).
I can tell you she had seen it all. For example, when I asked her to eat with me in a restaurant, I made the mistake to select "a" restaurant.
If it was "a" restaurant, it was a typical experience and she decided to tell me what restaurants women like, and "is this all you can offer?".
To her the restaurant had to be a very special one, in a special place in town. This was just one example of many. She also wanted to teach me how women should be treated.


Well, I have to say that I have a friend who is 2 years younger than me (23), and she would be exactly like that. She is very ambitious and driven and is well on the way to earning a hell of a lot of money. I remember that she used to comment about a group of friends I used to hang around with, who were happy enough to spend their lifes working in pubs or supermarkets. She couldn't understand why they didn't have any ambition. Now, imagine if she got into a relationship with one of them... or me for that matter, since I'm not particularly driven by money or having a big house. She would quite happily work 24 hours a day and have very little of a life (which she is pretty much doing at the moment actually) in return for having a lot of money and a high power job. Me... I would never give up my quality of life and my spare time to that extent, not ever.

It's not necessarily about age. Some people just don't fit together, whether they are ym and ow, yw and om, or in same age relationships. So this woman wasn't a very good match for you, it dosn't mean that all ow won't be either. Mine has the same ideals as me.

Oh, and I spent quite a few years following this female friend of mine around like a lovesick puppy. Eventually I realised that even if she was interested, it wouldn't work in a million years, so I got on with my life instead.

It's not necessarily about age. Some people just don't fit together, whether they are ym and ow, yw and om, or in same age relationships. So this woman wasn't a very good match for you, it dosn't mean that all ow won't be either. Mine has the same ideals as me.

Bravo, Rob!

Hi,

You slightly introverted men out there who are trying to start a relationship with an extrovert older woman. Please be careful. They probably have huge amounts of life experience and good manners. They will rule you. They probably chose you for your good looks and/or good sex.

It will be good at first but when things develop she will dump you. She will get bored of your childish behavior and depending on the type of her previous relationship, she will get tired of being your 'mother'. She feels she can impress you more than you her! Her ex was probably rich with good manners and expensive presents to offer all the time.

So be careful if you are not only after sex. Most probably there is nothing you can impress her with. She has seen it all, and if she is active and easygoing beautiful woman, she will get any man she wants. And she will probably stay single forever, trying to find her prince.

But if you younger men want a challenge, the go for it! It's an opportonity to change yourself to the better and impress your 10 year younger woman the same way her 10-20 year older man did previously.

Life is shallow.

Thank you, my 2 cents.

Well Jake..I'm going to agree with you on the fact that life can be very shallow sometimes...I think it depends on the person that you're with however..not on the age of the person (0lder woman, younger man, younger woman, older man)..as I'm sure you are aware...there are alot of shallow younger women and alot of shallow older women..and alot of jerky younger guys and alot of jerky older guys..and so on and so forth..well, you get the idea...you shouldn't generalize...cos people chose to be whatever way they want to be..and you have no control over that..waht you do have control over is how you let it affect you. Good Luck..you'll find someone more suited for you.

Hi Jake I am glad that you explained your situation. Not all older women are like that. Many of us have had to work and support ourselves and are not pampered brats....
If this woman really cared for you at all, she would not have minded where you ate, just so you were together. She would not have showered you with expensive gifts and expecting the same from you, esp knowing that you could not reciprocate. I had a b/f who gave a lot of gifts, but I could not afford to give back, I think he was offended. But at the time my kids were at home and they were my priority.
The woman who you are meant to be with will consider you the best no matter what your social/financial status is.

"To be fair, this did actually happen a couple of weeks ago I seem to remember. A woman came here and moaned about ALL ym (as far as I can recall). A few ym actually got a bit upset about it, but I seem to remember her receiving nothing but kindness from pretty much all the women.

I have no idea why I remember things like this!!!!!"

If I would have seen that post Rob, I can assure you I would have addressed it the same way.

Sorry, Jake, about your failed relationship. You are obviously very hurt. What are your ages and how long were you together? Who ended the relationship? I am sure that a lot of the guys here would like more of the details of your story. I myself like to hear the men's points-of-view.

Definitely, not all extroverted older women are like yours. If you hang around here for a while, you will have time to get to know the many older women members and learn their own relationship stories. Perhaps that could shed some light on your own situation.

Great posts, Jody and Whiterose!

Cheers,

Patricia

Hi Jake,

First of all, I think Jo was just trying to communicate that, YES, we older women do have experience, and we choose our younger guys based on all that experience. We think you're great, and that why we transcend all our fears and concerns about being with a younger guy to risk being with you. Jo was trying to make you understand that you are a special person (am I right Jo?).

Like thatgirl, my fiance is ten years younger than I am. I don't care about restaurants or whether he knows whats fashionable and whatnot. I love my partner because he's emotionally tuned into me, and he therefore makes my life a living joy. The facile stuff....the stuff which passes so quickly....well its not important to us. We are trying to create the life we both want together which is what counts to us.

Frankly, your ex sounds a bit narcissistic, which is a personality trait that can be present irrergardless of age. Most likely you need examine your attraction to women like this....

When I read both your posts, I could feel the hurt coming through too. I'm sorry.

To put this very directly, I somehow feel your ex was looking for the proverbial "boy toy" and she found you. Once she tired of having you in the boy toy role, she decided that she needed a sophisticated man, and tried to push you into that role. Of course, since you are younger, you weren't ready, couldn't afford it, etc.

I honestly can't remember another guy coming here before that's been in a similar situation to you, and I'll have been here two years this Fall.

I hope that all these replies by our fearless and lovely OW and YM population have helped you reframe what's happened to you.

I think what you are saying is true Bubs...

Jake remember that not all men and women fit so neatly into sexual stereotypes. Not all men want to be providers and not all women want men who are...

I think it is true that significantly older partners can have more life experience and can be more financially empowered then thier younger partners. However, I don't believe that this has to be a problem. I am 17 years older than my husband. I have an advanced education and make a decent professional income. He doesn't have his bachelors yet and couldn't make more than minimum wage, if he were able to work... which he isn't... long story ;). These money and power issues were discussed and discussed and discussed by us all during our courtship. We knew what we wanted and the groundrules early on. We share the same thoughts on these issues. I think its important to have these conversations and to pick partners that we can have them with. I think its also important to pick partners that we have the similar beliefs on these issues.

You could have these kinds of concerns around power, equity, and money in any relationship with a partner of any age. In fact, I'd wager that these issues are the primary ones that end all relationships.

Well....

I'm going to say, basing this on my experience with the women I have come to know on this site....

I think that older women have learned a lot of life lessons, and they have come to the point where they realize the things that are TRULY important. I actually think they are much less likely to be impressed by money, expensive gifts or flashy cars. I think that they have learned the true value of finding someone who accepts you for exactly who you are, and treating the other person in kind. This leaves a man in the enviable position of only being judged for who is and the actions he takes, and not necessarily by how he looks, what he does for a living, what he owns or how much money he makes.

I also think most of the women I have met are self-sufficient, and don't need to rely on a man (or anyone for that matter) to get by. Therefore, they are selective in who they get involved with. They don't "need" a man; therefore they don't settle for the first one who comes along.

I also believe that a lot of older women have learned the hard way how they deserve to be treated in a relationship. They may set the bar high, because they know they deserve to be treated with dignity, respect, love and compassion. I think on the whole, they are strong enough to walk away if their needs aren't met AND, possibly because they have already "been there, done that", be quicker to realize when a relationship is not going to work out and move on without dragging it out.


So, to just kind of wrap it up...I believe older women are confident independent women who choose to date only the BEST younger men, and for the right reasons. They have learned what to expect from a relationship and from a partner, and won't waste time or settle for less, because they don't have to. They have learned to "weed out" potential mates who are interested for the wrong reasons, and have learned to look for the qualities that are truly important.
Bravo....very well put my dear..you hit it right on!! My reasons for choosing my current bf was for how he treated me and nothing to do with finances ,sex or good looks.

Yep!

It may be true that my honey fills my bill on those (rather well I say... :D) - but those qualities are NOT the top of my list of things I "look for." (Oh how my mom hates that about me! She wishes I were FAR more materialistic. :rolleyes: )

Material circumstances are easily gained and easily lost and it is a mistake to define someone (or yourself!!) by them to the degree most appear to do in our society.

Hey Jake, I liked your post... for the record, I'm the ow who posted a few weeks ago about how ym sucked. I identified with your post here. Sometimes it really is about power, money and control, when I think realistically. Although older women aren't always looking to be treated by queens, the fact is I had more money than my ym.... I'm guessing that is a common thing with ow/ym. And when I get honest, yeah, I used money to control, for sure.

But I think your giving ow a whole lot more credit than we deserve. We're not all that smart and experienced. And I never went out looking for someone 20 yrs younger. I never weighed it, deciding I wanted a ym. I fell for this guy... really hard. The most interesting thing about your post is you turned it around, almost as if you think ow have some sort of advantage. For me, I thought the exact same thing about ym. But then you made me think about it. He would say things to me about how I am so smart and I made him feel stupied. I would dismiss that, thinking how could I make this young, gorgeous spiritual creature feel inadequate? I would stare at him as if he was a god, I would do anything for him, and if I wanted to go to a different resturant, I would do whatever made him happy, I wanted to see him happy.

Again, like everyone here suggested, when it comes to love, the reality is age doesn't matter. But life experience can play tricks on you eventually, like power and money and control....

I have to share this. I was married for all of my adult life until I met this younger man (was divorced for about 6 months when we met). And my X used to play "silent treatment" games with me. And I learned this behaviour from him, and started to do it with my ym. We lived together for 4 yrs.... but I had 20 yrs experience, I was good at it, learned from the best (my X). But my YM would have nothing to do with this silent treatment game. He'd get right in my face... "why aren't you talking to me?" What's wrong, he'd push. Look, he'd say, if you can't talk about it.... here's a paper and pad... please write me a letter and tell me what's going on with you! He'd make me sit down and write, while he wrote back to me. Whew. He blew me away. He forced me to grow. He taught me lessons... he was far more spiritually advanced in his soul than I'd come all these years. That's the part of a relationship when you can say age doesn't have a blasted thing to do with it.

In my mind he was so young and inexperienced, he was able to use it to an advantage.... while I was too full of my own game to suggest getting real. Maybe other ow are on top of it more, but in my case this ym used his innocent youth to turn my head.

I'm rambling and can't even remember my point... I don't post much, but yours caught my eye, you're very much like me.
Suzeq

I have to share this. I was married for all of my adult life until I met this younger man (was divorced for about 6 months when we met). And my X used to play "silent treatment" games with me. And I learned this behaviour from him, and started to do it with my ym. We lived together for 4 yrs.... but I had 20 yrs experience, I was good at it, learned from the best (my X). But my YM would have nothing to do with this silent treatment game. He'd get right in my face... "why aren't you talking to me?" What's wrong, he'd push. Look, he'd say, if you can't talk about it.... here's a paper and pad... please write me a letter and tell me what's going on with you! He'd make me sit down and write, while he wrote back to me. Whew. He blew me away. He forced me to grow. He taught me lessons... he was far more spiritually advanced in his soul than I'd come all these years. That's the part of a relationship when you can say age doesn't have a blasted thing to do with it.

I really liked this part of your post Suzeq---seriously makes you think and hit home for me because like you I have an ex (of 10 years) who taught me some very dirty tricks and I hope that I never am tempted to use them in any relationship.
Dont be so hard on yourself, seems to me that you've learned a lot.

I agree Suz (ravenglow)! And Suzeq, you did what you were supposed to...you learned and you grew from the experience, which is the purpose of every relationship we have.

Jody! I loved your post on the first page, awesome! :)

Jake~

(((hugs))) As others have said, not all other women are materialistic and spoiled. I have never had any man wine and dine me and I haven't ever been with an older man, so don't assume. I am independent and don't need a man, as Jo said in her post about we older women.... people are individuals and should be treated as such, not sterotypes!