Holes and tattoos

My daughter is going to be 18 of the 26th of July. She finished high school in three years and I gave her two choices - work full time and live at home or go to college. She went to college, and quit 2 months before her first year without talking to me about it first. While she was at college she got a nose piercing and a tattoo of Maine on her upper arm.

In March my mom got sick and died. I talked to my daughter about piercings and tattoos and basically said I can't stop her once she turns 18, but I feel she should hold off because she is changing and growing and what she wants now probably isn't going to be what she wants later on.

Last week she got three part-time jobs and moved two blocks away with a bunch of kids that I know and she's known for years. The owner of the house just graduated from Bates college and is renting out rooms to his friends. On the 4th of July she called and told me she got a piercing in her septum (between her nostrils.) She did it herself, which is dangerous and outright stupid.

I was furious. I told her I didn't want to see her and I wouldn't be seen with her in public, that she knew how I felt about it and she did it anyway. She knew the consequences before she did this. I don't want to offend anyone here who has body piercings and tattoos however she is only 17 and has told me that she wants to get more, tattoos that can't be easily hidden and holes who knows where.

I thought my mother's death taught me a lesson in life. You never know when someone you love is going to be taken from you, and treat people you love kindly, especially those close to you.

I feel like crap. I miss talking to her and I know she's feeling badly too. What would you folks do???

Well, I made my opinions known as well, and the day my son turned 18 he got his first one (that was in california where tattoos are illegal to do on anyone under 18, even with parental permission).

He kept getting them--has a phoenix across his entire left torso. I started going to the same artist about a year after my son got his first (if you can't beat them, join them)--I now have 5.

I mention this because the reason I got tattoos is that I wanted to show people who treated my son with discrimination that perfectly respectable and responsbile people have tattoos and piercings. I am a college professor. Many of my students were police officers who also had tattoos and piercings.

My point is this--I'd rather my child was a tattooed and pierced kind, decent person, than a non-tattooed non-pierced cruel, unkind, non-decent person.

Many of my best and most active (in terms of volunteering, etc.) students have been heavily tattooed, pierced, etc. Is it possible that they will stretch and deform over time-yes. I find that mine are an inspiration to stay fit so that doesn't happen.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would hate to see someone regret their relationship with their child over something like this. Doesn't mean they are bad, irresponsible, or any of that.

Thanks ladies.

Catlover I know what you mean about discrimination. My daughter is bisexual and has had both girlfriends and boyfriends. I've stood by her and been an advocate for her because she has experienced discrimination on many levels. She is also "straight edge" which means that she doesn't do drugs or drink, however it also stands for abstinance and she's already had a handfull of sexual partners, so she makes her own rules. I believe that she is doing better now than she has ever been, now that she found her "nitch". She lives in an apartment with mostly gay youth who are all vegan and involved in a needle exchange program to help stop the spread of AIDS. She is a great kid with a good heart and I love her dearly.

Some history.........

She's very bright and has never fit in with her peers beginning with the 4th grade. Things went sharply downhill in middle school when I went into the ETEP program and was gone for 80 hours a week, leaving my kids with their dad. During that time she consumed 90 asprins and called my mother at work. My mom came home to find her in a towel, called the ambulance and she was admitted into a psychiatric ward for two weeks. When I got the call at work I drove for 40 minutes praying to God to keep her alive. After that there was 8 weeks of outpatient treatment, family therapy, and a short stint of meds. The psychiatrist couldn't find anything to say other than "it's something she went through and she will be fine." That was four years ago, and I've seen her self confidence grow and she's become stronger than I could hope to be. I blame myself for a lot of her problems, because I stayed with her dad for so many years. We have both grown stronger since my divorce.

Sam has been pushing the limits for years. While at college she demonstrated the Republican convention in NY as well as the Democratic convention. She's hopped freight trains to get from point A to point B. She went skinny dipping with a former high school teacher (just found about this yesterday.) She dumster dives for food (something that's common around here) and skinned a dead squirrel she found on the road. She lies to me about everything. I never know what she will do next.

Enough history. Like Trish, I'm not fond of piercings and tattoos that are visable. I do have to live with it, but I'm so mad about her doing this herself I can't trust her judgement. Also she is dishonest with me so I asked her to return the key to my house today. I haven't heard back from her.

Thanks for your input and I welcome more.

K

Thank you for your prayers Trish. I don't know where to turn anymore because my mom is gone .... she was where I got my strength. I feel totally defeated.

Her dad refuses to become involved. My daughter's experiences has brought up issues I have with past sexual abuse. I feel that this former teacher took advantage of her because he knows there is no male present in her life.

It's eating away at me. I feel like I can't protect her. I've called the sexual assault crisis center because I know I need help. I'm numb. Just went to buy beer to be even more numb so I know I'm in trouble.

K

I also have an 18 year old daughter. I sent my precious little darling away to college late last summer for her Freshman year. A college of her choice... far away... moooooooooost expensive...

She left my home fresh faced without holes (except in her ears) and with no marks on her body that would prevent burial in a Jewish cemetary. She came home on her first visit with a hole in her eyebrow. Her second visit home she was sportin a nose ring (which has the lovely effect of making her look like she needs to blow her nose constantly). Winter break she came home with a GIANT ORANGE lotus blossom in the middle of her upper back. :eek:

She is an adult. She knows I don't dig this stuff and even though I do cringe when I see this kinda thing... I take comfort in the following:

She's only 18. I did a lot of stupid stuff when I was 18. So far none of her stupid stuff involves the police, drugs, or babies. She's doing well in college and she's gonna outgrow this.

Could be a lot lot worse...

I just wanted to add that it sounds like your daughter has been through a lot... and you too. Just because someone is a troubled teen doesn't mean that they will be a troubled adult.

I was so troubled as a teenager. I did drugs. I drank. I had LOTS of sex. I ran away from home and lied to my extremely exhausted, ever-patient, and loyal parents. I dropped out of high school. I had a couple of babies.

However, I also... had them standing by my side even when I didn't see them there or want them there. When I got in trouble with the law, it was my beleaguered folks who took me in... got me lawyers... and gave me trust I hadn't earned. I got my GED. I went to college and grad school as a single mom. I have been a pretty good mom and a functioning member of society.

My son is only 14 (soon to be 15) but I can SOOOO relate !! He's already doing things I can not stand and talking about all the things he's going to do when he turns 18 !!!

He's shaved his head several times, either in a mohawk, completely bald (skin head) and differant shapes, colors. He has pierced both his ears in which he is continuously trying to shove larger items into in an attempt to stretch his holes out bigger and bigger (yuck).

His clothes drive me insane .........black tight pants, black t-shirts and for some reason it's like pulling teeth to get him to shower. Isn't this strange?

Anyway - he's always talking about what piercing and/or tattoo he's going to get. Alot of his friends (16 and 17) have already pierced themselves (Yes, not safe)

I keep trying to explain to him, that while tattoos are not "trashy" and MANY professionals have them these days, it really boils down to placement in the professional arena !!! You can not expect to get a decent job with tattoos all over your neck, holes all in your face, etc !!

I have two tattoos ........one on my back that is pretty large. I got it when I was 20 .......well, guess what .........I HATE THAT TATTOO !!! It poses problems, such as this dress I wanted to wear to my work christmas party, but couldn't because the tattoo looked so horrible poking out of my beautiful, sexy dress .........I always make jokes that it might look good now, but one day my grandkids are going to say "Grandma, what's that on your back" and I'll have to say "Here, I'll pull this side and you pull that side ......see it now" ...........HA HA HA

Another example I give my son, is a gentleman we had here at work, had full sleeve tattoos ......(ones that covered his arms like sleeves), well, MANY of the employees were offended by looking at them, so they asked him to wear long sleeves to work .......Well, he worked in the factory, VERY HOT and had to wear long sleeves ........he ended up quitting.

It's so hard to explain to children how what they do today, they may regret tomorrow !!

If only I had listened to my mother also !! ha ha

strange that people have to modify their appearance because others are 'offended'........that this sort of discrimination could cost people their livelihoods.

I'm just gonna mention that the guy who was just caught after killing 3 members of a family, sexual assualting the 2 youngest, probably killing the boy, kept the girl hostage, sexually assaulting her for what a month--was described as 'clean cut' by someone in montana who saw the man and girl

I'm with you on this one Amina. I don't regret any of my tatts--I love them all. Even the one on my wrist that I can't cover up. In situations where it might be an issue I keep my left hand under the table :)

In the end, the only thing that matters is if she is a good person. and it sounds like not only is she a good person, she is smart, and resourceful, and ready to take care of herself. Good for her. I mean, I'd be willing to bet that proportionately there are more horrible people without tattoos and piercings (of all persons without them) than there are people with them. Students I've had with visibly pierced faces have-without exception-been the brightest, most creative ones in the class.

Hardest thing in the world as a parent is to let them go, not to judge. My dad would tell me, once my son turned about 16, was that all my job was now was to - ONLY WHEN HE COULDN'T DO IT HIMSELF AND TRIED FIRST - help him out of trouble.

Best advice I ever got.

I agree too. Remember our children are not extensions of ourselves. They are making choices that feel comfortable to them... it doesn't have to feel comfortable to us... it ain't our skin.

Kalri,
I wish I could give you some words that would help you get thru this, but I know that nothing will really help. It would have been better if your daughter had respected your wishes and waited, but she didn't and that's water under the dam.

When my son(D) was 15, he and the neighbor kid pierced their ears. When I saw what he had done I was not happy, but told him that he will keep it clean and not let it get infected. When his dad found out-OMG! He told (D)to take that fag earring out before coming to spend the weekend! I collared his dad (thank goodness we are on good terms) and told him to back off, that (D) would get tired of it soon enough. After he turned 18 he pierced his eyebrow and t hen his tongue.....today at age 28 he has given up the piercings, has a good haircut, bought a house and works 2 jobs....oh and he does still have tattoos.

I guess if anything I would say, just continue to love her, don't be embarrassed to appear in public, if anything go out of your way to do so. She is still finding her way...
<<<<<hugs>>>>>

Thanks Trish... I had/have a couple of great parents!

You know I came here because I knew I needed to hear this. I knew in my heart that what I said and did was wrong.

Thank you everyone.

I'm not going to waste another minute, I'm going to call her now.

K

yay! Good deal :)

I am glad to hear that Kalri!!! good luck and God Bless!!

I called her and asked her if I could come by and talk and she said yes. I told her I was sorry and that she was amazing. She forgave me and thanked me for my apology. Then she told me she was going to Vermont to get granny and mom tatts on her forearms in Albanian. I said, "You were still going to get mom even after what I said to you?" And she said, "Yep, I figured you were already pissed so what the heck!" Gotta love her.

If feels like a heavy weight lifted from my heart.

I want to especially thank those of you who answered me with direct yet kind words. I never claimed to be the best most understanding parent, but I'm trying every day.

Amina, "she was HAPPY with her decision and you made her feel like a freak of nature." My daughter did not feel like a freak of nature because of what I said. She's pretty grounded in her beliefs about herself and her decisions. I made her feel like I was angry, which I was.

K

The road of motherhood is full of pot holes, boulders, twists and turns.....glad you found your way!! I bet that your relationship with her will be even stronger because of your love and that apology....... :)

KALI

that is fabulous!!!!!! I'm so happy you could work this out with your daughter. As a mom I do understand. I know my son is only a year old.... I still think of the future and I hope to god he doesn't do this... I know I have to let him live his life and let him suffer the consequences of his actions but I know as a mother that we just want the best for them and it's hard when they don't want to accept it right away!!!!

KUDOS to you, Kalri! :)

I am not into tattoos and piercings at all. Sounds odd coming from a sailor, but there is no ink anywhere on my body. My reasons for not getting "ink done" are Biblical - Leviticus 19:28 talks about not putting marks on one's body.

I will say this: I would have a talk with your daughter if I were you. Not just about life in general, but about the sanitary issues involved with do-it-yourself body modification. There is just too much risk for infection.

I am not advocating tattoos or piercings, but if one feels inclined, go to a studio where the rooms and equipment are sterilized. Just a few less things to regret later.

wvdreamer

I respect your biblical reasons for not getting tattoos and piercings, however I am curious about Leviticus and some of the laws such as "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." and "Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." I'm just wondering if people chose some passags as law and not others, because some of those laws are difficult to honor. I think my shirt alone has cotton, lycra and spandex!

However I agree on you with the sanitary issues. I was very nervous when she told me she pierced her septum herself and relieved that it didn't get infected. That's why I'm taking her to a professional.

My daughter and I are both getting tattoos on her 18th Birthday. She is getting a memorial for my mother and I will either do that as well or get a dot, depending on whether or not I chicken out.

Thanks everyone for your help.
K

Kalri, I got my first tattoo for my 35th birthday (still my only, but I plan on at least one more). My mother got hers at 40-something. Jeremy got his first in his teens and has 3 (!) on his neck and six total.

I hope he won't regret those on his neck, but as he has become a head weld inspector since getting them, it hasn't prevented him from keeping a decent job and getting respect from his supervisors. Sure, he'll probably never become the CEO of companies headed by stuffy, old white men, but there are plenty of CEO's with tats in industrial and technical companies (think Harley Davidson or even the pres of his own company). And he wouldn't want a stiff-collar job, anyhow!

I'm glad you realized that your daughter's personal choice is NOT a reflection on you. Some people think that their attitude is for their child's "own good," however, it really has to do with ego. It's not about the child - it's about them, their standards and their embarrassment. Sometimes, it's even jealousy - wishing they could have stood up for themselves, for something in their past, the same way.

Kalri... one of Litical's favorite stories are about his maternal grandparents who both went and got tattoos late in life! :D His granddad has a tattoo of a compass on the fleshy part of his hand.

I got the tattoo on my arm about 2 years ago.

I'm waiting a few more years and still contemplating two more that I want. One is maybe a tweetle beetle on my foot or hand and the other would be a sleeping Hobbs.

~phos

Amina,
I know!!! There is so many laws in Lev. that people can't possibly live by in today's world! I'm still waiting for an answer on that one.

fos ... I have a scar on my stomach about a foot long from two surgeries that I had last year. I thought about turning that scar into something beautiful in memory of my mom, who took care of me when I was sick.

Kristin yep I wish I could have stood up for myself when I was her age. My mom, who went from being very conservative to pretty liberal as she aged, pretty much ran my life, or tried to. I loved her dearly but vowed NOT to parent like she did. A lot of what I'm feeling is tied to beliefs about "what will people think" because that is the way I was brought up.

And my daughter will probably never be a white collar stiff either.

The day after her 18th birthday she will be working at Bates college ... posing nude for art classes. I thought about doing it as well ... I hear that students get bored/tired with drawing "perfect" bodies, as many students work as models, therefore I qualify as a non-boring subject. ;)

I wonder how the Auburn School Department would feel about one of their teachers posing nude???

K

The day after her 18th birthday she will be working at Bates college ... posing nude for art classes. I thought about doing it as well ... I hear that students get bored/tired with drawing "perfect" bodies, as many students work as models, therefore I qualify as a non-boring subject. ;)

I wonder how the Auburn School Department would feel about one of their teachers posing nude???K

As someone who has both a degree in art and also posed nude for drawing classes (while in school), I can tell you that your body will probably more close to "perfect" than a LOT of the models. LOL. Seriously...

... the thing about being a model, though, is that you are NOT frigid. :eek: We had one model who drove me INSANE all year ~ and was also why I decided to BE a model, because she SUCKED. It wasn't that she was unattractive (she was, which is FINE, most of them were...), but that she REFUSED to get into any.. and I mean ANY.. interesting positions to DRAW. She would come in, sit in exactly the same way as she always did and refuse to pose in any other way. *yawn*

First of all, we DO NOT look at you as a person. You are an object of light, shadow and line or movement/expression. YOU, as a person, DO NOT exist. Trust me. There is an "invisibility" factor involved. You can model for these very same classes and go sit in a class with the SAME people an hour later and they DO NOT recognize you ~ or speak of it ~ or anything. You are light, shadow, line, expression.

IF you are modeling for warm up "gesture" drawings. Dance in slow motion. My best advice. Gesture drawings are 30 second to 1 minute drawings to capture movement and form. Seriously, think about your body being captured "in movement." Dance. It's my heartfelt advice. Do not be afraid of showing any part of your body. The BEST models we had did not think in terms of being naked, they thought in terms of providing a really interesting object to draw!!

If you're posing for a long pose, chose something that is comfortable to you that will not cause muscle strain, but please try not to repeat the same pose for every class. Find alternate poses which are comfortable to you which you can hold for 30 minute intervals (you get breaks) or longer, if possible. Some instructors are very conscious of your comfort level (temperature, time in pose, etc) others ARE NOT.

And if you have a particularly cruel instructor, refuse to go back to his/her class. You have the right.

Modeling nude for drawing classes can be very rewarding, can make you feel good about yourself, and definitely PAYS well. :D I say, HAVE FUN!!!

~phos

Amina I am seriously thinking about it because I need another source of income. My very conservative brother and his equally conservative wife told me that I would be fired from my job if I did it. (I won't have tenure untill the end of this year.) Maybe I'll ask my team leader what she thinks about it. My bro and his wife think it's sleezy and sinful, but I feel it's art. I think you should go for it too!!! 20 pounds bah .. you're beautiful.

fos.. my neice told me about the dance poses. She said she had to do a different pose every 30 seconds. How the heck can anyone draw that fast anyway!!!
She did mention one instructor who referred to her as doing a "Playboy pose" and she took offense to that, but the students were just like you said, serious about their work and never disrespectful.

So Sam told me that we have an appointment in Portland on July 30th to get tatts. She and I will have a good day together. :)

Kali, I think its wonderful that you were able to apologise to your daughter and that you're supprting her in the way that you are. You sound like such a great mum!

Also (and I'm sorry if I'm not alowed do this) but there is a website online an ezine for piercings and tats and all body modifications, that gives a LOT of good advice, and maybe if your daughter read it she'd be less likely to self pierce in future... I don't know, but I thought it might be an option. its bmezine, I don't want to give an url in case that isn't alowed or I breach etiquette. There is some extreme stuff on the site, but all the advice on tats and piercings is really really good.

I think the tribute to your mother sounds wonderful. I lost my father 4 months ago and have been thinking about the same sort of thing. I'm still not sure, not because he wasn't worth a tribute, but because I don't know what tribute would be enough . . . if that makes sense.

Anyways, I'm rambling....

When I was in Cancun there was this guy in the pool with us... he was very athletic looking and clean cut, except for this absolutely STUNNING tattoo on his shoulder. It wrapped around his upper shoulder and down his arm and across his chest a little bit and a little on his back shoulder blade. It was simply gorgeous.

I eyed it from across the pool and had to get a closer look. It had such beautiful detailing and the chainwork was absolutely mindbogglingly stunning! He kept turning in the pool and I kept trying to get a closer look (holding my precious 4 year old) and finally I said, "Sir! Can I check out this amazing piece of art??"

He laughed and told me, "It's a tribute to a very dear friend of mine who passed away a short while ago. I never would have gotten a tattoo, but I really felt this was a way to honor him."

:eek:

All I could do was say, "It is simply beautiful. It's one of THE nicest tattoos I've ever laid eyes on..." and he smiled, turned down his head for a moment, then said "thanks...." and left the pool.

Tribute tattoos...

... they can speak absolutely volumes!
~phos

My daughter and I are both getting tattoos on her 18th Birthday. She is getting a memorial for my mother and I will either do that as well or get a dot, depending on whether or not I chicken out.


:) Kalri that was so cute , I laughed outloud.

I am not into tattoos and piercings at all. Sounds odd coming from a sailor, but there is no ink anywhere on my body. My reasons for not getting "ink done" are Biblical - Leviticus 19:28 talks about not putting marks on one's body.

wvdreamer....

Since it's obvious from your avatar that you have a short haircut, it's clear to me that you really aren't following Leviticus, so you may need to rethink that.


Kalri~

I am so glad you and your daughter were able to work this out. We may not always agree with their choices, but we love them no matter what and I do not think we should turn our backs on them over tattoos and piercings. My daughter pierced her nose when she was 16, she is now 17. I wasn't upset in the least.

When I was younger and going through cosmetology school, everyone was piercing everything they could stick a needle in. We also wore every color of hair and every kind of different hairstyle we could think of. I actually had symbols shaved in my head. I also have a tattoo. I got one when I was 24 at a tattoo party (not recommended) and it was unfinished. I always wanted to get it covered with something else, so this year I went and got a Pisces symbol and I love it.

To each is own and our children are individuals, just as we are. What a fine person you are to recognize what is important and make amends with your daughter! :)

Thanks 1love :)

My daughter decided to get a sunflower tattoo instead of the bands around her arms. We searched for hours on the net for the perfect flower but couldn't find one, then she drew one herself and decided to have it tattood on her back, in black.

dmjoy I was still considering the dot until I saw her drawing. I decided to get the same thing, only smaller and with color, probably somewhere on my back as well.

My house if filled with her artwork. Now I'll one of her pieces wherever I go. We both think it's kinda cool.

We are getting them done Saturday, my 18th birthday present to her.

Alright... I'm jealous. LOL. My Mom would NEVER get a tattoo. My Dad has one, but won't get another either.

And damn, I really do hope to dissuade my daughter from getting one... (hell, look at her in that picture with Amina... would YOU want her to get one???) BUT, if she does decide she HAS to have one someday, I hope she will think of me... *sniff*

~phos

yup! @ Kristin

And...I was JUST going to mention the hair cutting/clothing thing @ Kalri...

Makes no sense to me how some folks pick and choose what scriptures to abide by...*blink*

I have to agree and as a woman that loves God and was raised, still attends every week a Pentecostal church where my father is the pastor, I don't believe that I'll be rejected by God based on a small flower tattooed somewhere very private.

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." John 7:24

But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." I Samuel 16:7

I choose to abide by those. :)

Years ago before tatts were popular my husband and I got them in the breast/chest area. We told our daughters some crazy story about them taking blood out of us and putting it back in in order to make the tattoos. As time went on our children got older and when my oldest turned 18 she got her first one on her thigh area. At 20, she got her tongue pierced. She is now 24, she has another tatt on her back/butt area and just last week I gave her money for her b-day gift and she got her ear pierced in the inner lobe. She did this because she wanted it, also because I have my ear pierced there.
As a parent I've asked that she not get tatts/piercings where they can be viewed by the public and seen as negative. She works in a very conservative business office and I dont think tatts on the neck, ect would help her career. However, she is 24 and she can make her own decisions.
My younger daughter (17) has no desire for tatts or piercings.

Young adults deal with so many issues in life. I'm glad the OP was able to work things out with her daughter. There's nothing like the love of a mother and daughter. :)

It helps a lot if parents are fair and reasonable about tats and piercings (same goes for alcohol and drugs..).. my Dad really didn't want me to get any facial piercings, but I got my tongue and lip done anyway. He was angry and upset, but then calmed down and was okay with them, but just asked that I didn't get any tattoos. Since he was so fair and nice I'd feel far too guilty if I got a tattoo :o .. so I haven't.