Some advice please

Some of you may remember my story from about a year ago. Long story short-I met my younger man when I was seperated, me-49, YM-34. Anyway, due to family pressure I went back to my husband. The conditions I set for our marriage were to spend more family time, quit drinking so much, and at least take me on a date ever so often. I still come to Ageless to read because I feel there are some very wise women on here and I enjoy the responses. Even though I'm no longer in an age gap relationship, I would appreciate some wisdom and insight on my situation. So....here's the sitch

It has been one year since we went back together. Our dates have consisted of one Mexican dinner for our anniversary. One birthday party for my cousin. Let me see...I believe that's it as far as us going anywhere together. I haven't suggested anything either because I felt after I told him what I wished he should be the instigator. As far as family outings, None. I take our 12 yr. old daughter to the movies, dinner, etc. by myself and with girlfriends that have kids her age. And then the drinking...he drinks around 5-6 beers every night. The weekends it's more. He never gets stumbling drunk but just merely falls asleep after dinner, leaving me to wander around the house looking for something to do. About 3 yrs. ago he got a DWI that cost us a bundle of money. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why a man could be content staying home every weekend doing the same thing. He grills or bar-b-ques and drinks. Sometimes cooking the whole meal. His explanation: He's around people all week and likes to just relax on the weekends. He's always been a hard worker, so that's not a complaint. I finally realized (yeah, I know-I'm a little slow on the up-take) the reason he doesn't want to go anywhere is he would not be able to drink and drive. It all makes sense now. He has basically done this 20 yrs. The only place he goes is to the deer lease when deer season begins. Sometimes this is 2 times a month for 4 & 5 days at a time. So you can see from about Oct-Jan, there is little time to enjoy ourselves as a family because he's hunting. My biggest fear is when our 12 yr. old is out of school in about 6 yrs. I will go absolutely stir-crazy. Before I went back to him from the seperation all I could hear was..I want my family back. Now he has us back and doesn't do anything to make us feel special. I have just waited to see if he would suggest anything to do occassionally. Nope, didn't happen. One year of the same old stuff, staying home and watching him drink. I am sick of our little girl being exposed to alcohol every day of her life. I have been thinking lately that I should get myself in a position to leave. Find an apartment for me and her and tell him I've signed a 6 mo. lease. During this time he needs to get help for his alcoholism, and learn to get his priorities in order. If he can't do it in 6 mo. he never will. I just don't think because the way he wants to live his life should be the way we have to live ours. There is a big exciting world out there that needs to be enjoyed. I feel children need to be exposed to lots of different things to become well rounded. Don't get me wrong, I take my child to lots of things I just do it alone. It's a lonely existance. So ladies let me hear some wise words on this.

People rarely change drastically, and that's what you'd hoped for with your husband. I'm so sorry you are in the middle of this again; it just sounds like your marriage is over. And I totally agree that your daughter can not thrive in an environment where alcohol is abused.

I am reading a book right now that was recommended by someone on this site to another poster (sorry, I can't give credit where it's due right now because I honestly can't remember who mentioned it), but it is fantastic !!!
Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay

Basically it walks you through guidelines to know whether your own relationship is worth trying to save, or one you need to walk away from. The questions given throughout the book are right on. One point the author makes is that the common method used by women -the "Pro and Con" list - (listing the good things to see if they outweigh the bad) just causes more confusion. Instead, we need to look at facts about the history and present tense of the relationship to determine it's worth for us in the future.
I found the book at half.com for about $3.00. I'm planning on quoting some excerpts in a new thread here on the board knowing that sooooooo many of us women (myself included) have been faced with relationship ambiguity...where we're not sure to stay or leave, but we keep hoping and never move forward in either direction.

I hope you can reach some resolve for yourself and your daughter. It seems as though your exym was brought into your life at least to raise the bar in your mind of what you will settle for in a relationship...and emotional abandonment just isn't working for you any more.
A hug for your confused, hurting heart,
Karen

Hi Sara,

First of all, I would like to acknowledge your decision on returning to your husband. It appears you had put quite a bit of thought into your decision-making. That is very commendable. Also, you made the effort in communicating to your husband several issues that plaqued your marriage. No, it is not too much to ask for more family time, to diminish the use of alcohol, and to spend more time as a couple.
Now that it is a year later, it sounds like things have not changed too much. And I can sense your concern, perhaps sadness or unhappiness. May I ask, what has been done in regards to his excessive use of alcohol? Was counseling/therapy ever been discussed? Also, is your husband aware of health issues related to the excessive use of alcohol? If not, perhaps his physician can initiate a discussion with your husband. A phone call from you to his physician may start the ball rolling.
In regards to more family time, it does take some planning. I suggest sitting down with the family at least once a week to discuss plans in spending time together. Once a plan is formulated, then put it on the calendar.
About your time as a couple, it sounds like it is not happening quite to your liking. It appears it's more "him" time rather than "we" time. Again, I suggest making plans for a "date." It's ok to BBQ, but not every weekend! If arrangements can be made to have someone take care of your daughter for a weekend, I suggest a weekend getaway for the both of you.
I hope these suggestions are helpful and I do admire you for your efforts in making this relationship work. I also admire your strength. How is your support system? Being with people who support you can be added strength. I do wish you the very best.

Norie

I had the same situation and spoke to numerous counselors about it. What you have is a working alcoholic...what I was told is the worst kind. They don't think they have a problem because they go to work every day and are home to "be with their family". It was always beer and he had to increase his drinking more and more because it took more to get the buzz so in the end he was drinking a case of beer every weekend night. Rarely did we go out on weekends and if we did we had to get home early so he could drink or he took his beer with him and I drove. It was a horrible life and the kids suffered for it bigtime. My biggest regret is that I didn't divorce him sooner.

If you really want to feel like you're doing everything to give your marriage a chance there's only one thing you can do per the counselors....you have to give him an ultimatum that unless he quits drinking you're going to leave him permanently. This can't be an idle threat...you have to mean it. If that's what it comes down to, it's the best thing for your kids....living with an alcoholic father is not a good thing! Good luck to you.

Karen

Alcoholism aside, most of these situations where a woman feels pressured to go back to a very unsatisfactory man for "practical" or societal reasons do not work.

There are a couple of threads here where women considered this backward move, either now or in the past, and the prognosis is not good. What is it about us that people (even ourselves sometimes) believe we should live with unhappiness just to please some guy who is a NEGATIVE in our lives, or just so we can barely live on a level of survival? Just say NO.

Do read those threads. (You'll find a couple of them near the top if you do a search for the word "survival.") If you would not choose this man if you met him today, then there is no reason to imprison yourself (and your children) with him now - in fact it is insanity. It is time to move forward in life, not back!

Best wishes.

Sara,

If things don't change, things don't change.

I am the adult daughter of an "working" alcoholic. Mom started drinking when I was 16 and that was over 35 years ago. Her routine now, is the same as it was then. I have four siblings younger than myself. One of my sisters and I drink very little, one drinks more moderately and the brothers drink more heavily. Neither of the brothers will drink canned beer or soda because they hate the sound of a can opening up. It reminds them too much of mom opening the beer cans for her nightly drinking that only starts at 9 pm. (Hence she's not an alcoholic, you see).

The hard part for me was and is coming second to the addiction. I live 500 miles from my mother; it's a 10-11 hour drive if the road conditions are good. I see her once a year, maybe twice if I'm lucky. She won't come visit me often because of all her phobias. There has been more than one occasion that I've reached her home at 7:30 p.m. She'll be happy to see me, give me something to eat and then invariably excuse herself to go to the basement rec room for her nightly routine of watching TV, drinking beer and smoking cigarettes promptly at 9 pm. It doesn't matter if I drove 12 hours, or she hasn't seen me for a year, the drinking takes top billing.

I'm currently separated from my husband of 33 years, soon to be divorced. He decided that relationships "weren't his priority" but IF they were I'd be on the top of the list. Funny, I wonder if he put that on his match.com ad..... Our daugthers are grown and he was always busy working. He was one of those guys that Special K calls out as too good to leave. He was hard working, generous, but has sort of a split personality, is emotionally distant and loved me in spite of the fact that I was far too heavy (wasn't even 200 pounds) to be beautiful or sexy according to him. He never really SAID that but his actions all but screamed it.

After all this experience, I still struggle with the question as to whether anyone in my life truly does love me. SO I made the decision to love myself the best I can and move forward. I'm in an age gap relationship with a guy 33 years younger than myself and like all couples we have our ups and downs but he's helped me get back in touch with who I really am.

My advice to you, Sara, is to do the hard work to move forward with your life. Some of us are in the process of doing it, like me. Some women and men here have already done it and some people are hesitating to do it yet. All I can tell you is that it is a very steep mountain to climb, but when you get near the top, the view is spectacular.

Your daughter is growing up every day with the cold hard reality that the addiction is more important to her father than she is. Its a very hard reality to swallow at any age.

Hugs to you, Sara
Bub

I awoke this morning and found all these wonderful responses. They mean so much to me I want to address each and every one of them.

specialK-I will get that book, it sounds like a very informative read. And yes, I do think my YM was a God send. He showed me that other people relax and enjoy activities together on the weekends. He's a busy boy with his motorcross, racing cars, and skiing. So yes, he's very active. The plus to him is he wants to share those things with someone he cares about not do it alone. I still miss him terribly.

hbr2005-my husband is a very intelligent man, he owns a million dollar company and is very aware of health issues regarding alcohol. He's not an alcoholic, you see, so it doesn't apply to him. Ha!! As far as my support system I have 2 very close friends that really help me. My Mom passes it off as, "You know all the men in that age group drink a lot, don't they?" my response, "No, Mom. Not all."

Kacadac-boy! this sounds familiar. I wrestled with whether he was an alcoholic for a long time. Because he's such a hard worker, never rolled around on the ground, etc. but I began to count the beer can every day. It is always a 6 pack at least per night. And yeah...weekends I lose count. Yuck!!! I have begun to say, I am lonely now, so I might as well be alone and do what I want.

Cherubino-thanks for that straight forward response. That just about hits the nail on the head. Nothing like laying it on the line. And that response alone hit me in the face like a brick. Thank you.

GoldieCat-Wow!!! I had never thought about it like that. If you wouldn't accept those standards today, then why now?

bubbleee-I guess your response touched my heart because you have lived it. I felt the pain in your writings. Made me think of what my own daughter would write in years to come. My older daughter is 22, and is busy with college so she is not around as much anymore. Last night she and her boyfriend came for dinner. I was in the kitchen finishing up when she walked in, the first words out of her mouth were..."Passshut(makes the noise of a can opening) and begins singing, "Pop a top again." she then said, "I can't stand the way that can sounds opening." So yeah we feel that way about cans opening too. We have even commented that it aggravates us the way he holds his mouth when he's turning the can up. You just don't know until you've been there, do you? It must be terrible to have something get a hold of you like that to where you could loose your family over it.

So I thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart. I have begun moving in the right direction. I just finished my real estate courses last week and have the state test to take within the next couple of weeks. I will get there. I have begun to feel like I don't even want to help him with this. This is his problem, and he is going to have to make the decision to quit in order to have quality of life. I have made good, sound choices for my life and my children. He'll have to deal with his. Sounds harsh I know, but, one does get disgusted.

My father had always drank...he was a working alchoholic, although he didn't think so, but he only drank on weekends. My father was alot like your husband, except that even on the weekdays when he wasn't drinking, he wasn't socialable. I still loved him though, and if sitting on the sofa just watching tv was it, then for a 10 yr child that was good enought for me.

As I grew older I realized that my father was not a very well loved child and actually his brother was the favorite. In fact, he basically had a mother who put other men first before her children...that changed him as a child, he then became more human with faults and pain of his own, he was mortal, just like me...I once saw my father buy heorin for my older brother, who was going cold turkey...he just could not stand to see his son in such pain...it re enforce to me, that my father understood pain/and if with our support system, my brother got off of drugs, but he's never forgotten what it must've cost my father to do something so against his principles, again we will never know, he was a quiet man.

I understood where he was coming from and I gave him as much love and support (as did my brother) as any child could, I don't want to say it wasn't enough, because I really don't know what he thought, he keep his most inner feelings to himself but I can only hope, it was enough so he could feel at peace within a cold world that showed him no love and I knew that he loved me...because I was the product of an 'unplanned pregnancy' , he could've just as easily had walked away. In my late 20s, he quit drinking all together, learned to cook, clean and take care of himself really well, dang, much better than my mother (now if I could only get him to quit smoking, but that came years later).

I mean I hear what your reasons are for wanting to leave...and you are making great strides to prepare youself, preparation is the key...but have you ever wondered what are his reasons for drinking. What he tells himself to escape whatever pain he is in through alcohol.

When you spoke to him about coming back, besides telling him what you wanted out of this relationship, did you ask him deeper questions on why he would let his drinking get in the way of building a loving and solid relationship with his family.

I do believe he is up for an ultimatium, which should also include counseling. Its should be a toughlove approach. He should very clearly understand that you are making preparations to leave him if he does not take control of his life and his family. He should clearly understand what he is losing and why he's losing it. Give him a 3 month time period in which he MUST seek counseling during those 3 months as well as you both should seek marriage counseling. I survived living with a drinking father, because I got underneath the man my father was and is... (although he and my mother had such major rows, she also knew it wasn't about just her...but she was a very independent woman, if he didn't want to go anywhere, she would bundle us up and take us to jersey most weekends or other activities and she never cheated on him either, she just accepted that he was not as socialable as she was and he accepted that she was).

I mean, let's suppose he does quit drinking but he's still not a socialable being but he gives you the love and care you deserve, what then. Would you still accept him as he is or would you still feel he should change to suit you? Is this really about being socialable or really about his drinking? Is this about wanting change or a different lifestyle all together? Because that's ok too, but one may not have anything to do with the other.

I know you'll make the right decision for yourself and your daughter, I certainly do not advocate for staying in a relationship that's abusive or healthy for everyone concern, I'm just not willing to leave a relationship without earning my way out of it with harder choices, so I can't tell you to leave or stay...you know your relationship better than any of us, all I can do to send prayers, tell you to have courage and stay focus on what is right for you.


Paris

Sara, I understand what you are going through. I lived with a beer drinking alcoholic for 14 years. He even became the Fire Chief of a large city. But he was so emotionally unavailable when not drinking and too emotional sometimes when he was drinking.

I stayed for years because I thought my love could see him through. And for one 2 year period it was bliss, just like I dreamed. Then he started an affair with a woman in AA and he quit and went back to drinking. :rolleyes: The drinking got worse and the emotional abuse was terrible.

I left and I don't regret it. Just to have peace and calm in my own home was worth it. Sometimes we have to let go of our dreams and see what God/life has for us instead. It is so much better than what I was living with him. I wish you well in whatever you decide.

Yes, I know where his pain comes from. His brother drowned right before we got married. (29 yrs.) He has unsettled issues from that. No, he never wanted to go to counseling, I tried. He said it should have been him, his brother was the good one. This tells me he's insecure and the ego he displays is a cover up. He once told me nothing could feel the void he felt for loosing his brother. I told him I understand that, but he has a wife and children now, he should live for that. he said he would never be happy until he died and was with his brother again. Hence, I guess the drinking is a death wish. That's all I can surmise. I think if he could get the drinking under control he would be sociable. Yes, I am a more sociable person than him and that's okay I could live with that. I would just go by myself and do. Add in that he falls asleep every night so early it is just very lonely.
He has been this way so long, who knows what his personality would reveal if he stopped drinking. But if he's killed the love along the way, that won't be known until he gets his life under control and only he can do that. I have exhibited patience so many times with the death of his brother and all that goes with it. I just don't know if I'm willing anymore to help an emmotional cripple. Thank you for your insight iparis and God Bless You.

I just don't know if I'm willing anymore to help an emmotional cripple.

Sara, it doesn't sound harsh that you don't want to help him. Guess what...it is not your responsibility to do so in the first place. Can you let the idea go that you owe him anything? He appears to live without feeling obligated to you, which only underlines how little interdependence there is. You don't have a DUTY to him, or to anyone. Live your life for YOURSELF and your loved ones.

If he needs professional help, let them do it. If he doesn't want their help, it's not your job to step up to that plate, your job is you.

:)

Been there, done that..had a working alcoholic husband for 18 years. Wish I had gotten out of it much sooner than I did. Major life lesson learned.."IT"S BETTER TO BE ALONE THAN WITH AN A$$HOLE"

If you've done all you can, and he doesn't want to go to counseling, then you've done all you can. Life was not meant to be lived miserably, although there will be some periods of adversity, a way is always available to deal with it and obviously your husband doesn't want to deal and get himself to a place that will give him joy.

I find it sad that your husband doesn't want to live, even for his family...he will regret that someday. You say you're almost finish with your real estate course...do what you need to do to prepare, but don't leave until you're absolutely financial able to do so with miminal anxiety. tell your husband of your plans so that he has no illusions as to why you're leaving...he's just as accountable of killing this relationship.

I'll keep you in my prayers, so you may search for the strength you need to live life with as much joy as you deserve.

Paris

perhaps off the subject...i noticed you have the club 15 keychain as your signature...are you still in contact with the ym?

Dear Sara,

You've already received excellent advice. I'd just like to add that I too was raised by an alcoholic and married one. I stayed way too long. As a child, I never saw what a good relationship was, so I didn't know how to live one.

Your children will greatly gain their ideas about life and marriage by watching the interaction between you and your husband. Only you know whether this is an acceptable enviornment.

One word of caution. If an ultimatum is given, protect yourself financially, first. See an attorney and get his advice. Have financial statements, and a list of all community assets. One reason I am in Iraq is I gave an ultimatum in an emotional moment without doing the above. While I was in the hospital for major surgery, he moved the assets, depleted the bank and savings accounts, filed bankrupsy, and I have had to pay!

Wishing you happiness. PLS

perhaps off the subject...i noticed you have the club 15 keychain as your signature...are you still in contact with the ym?

No, I am not still in contact with him. I only put that there so people would know the reason I was directed to this site to begin with and what the age difference was. I do still hold him dear to my heart. Unexplainable bond between us that will always be there. I do think he was sent to me to help me realize I deserve more out of a relationship. If I leave this relationship I will have a clear conscience that it is because of what I am not getting and his alcoholism.


Peggylsnyder-very good advise about the attorney and I will do just that. In my situtation I could stand to loose around 1.5 million dollars. Not something I would like to contemplate with my children's inheritance at stake, hence the reason I am still here. I am trying to figure out a way to avoid this. And I agree an Attorney would be the best to advise me. Thank you