I need advise - she is a generation older than me

I am scandinavian but I have been working in the USA since 2004. Later this year I reach 28.

5 months ago I met a single mother with a 14 year old daughter. She is a caring, succesful, well educated, slim/athletic, youthful and an attractive woman. I really love her but I can not whole-hearted say that I do not care about the age gap.

We met at a conference party where she was sitting next to me. In the light of her information, her apperance and the age of her collegues/friends at our table I estimated her age at 40 that night. She was a good listener, showed an interest in my background and my new job in the USA. After the conference she called me a couple of times, visited me, we went out...and we then gradually started a "long distance" but serious relationship.
By an accident to weeks ago I ran into a female colleague of my girl friend who also participated in the conference where I met my girl friend. She was aware that we were now a couple and she spoke highly of my girlfriend. During our conversation in the staff restaurant I realized that my girl friend has a second daugther who is 38 years old. She probably saw that this information was new to me because I became quiet. She was a bit embarrassed I think and she could/would reveal no more about my girl friends age or past. She just told me that my girl friend is very youthful and a good match to me in spite of the age gap. Consolingly she revealed that her own boyfriend is 32 years old - 24 years younger than herself. They have been together for almost 5 years.

Last week I confronted my girl friend with my new information. She became quiet and emotional but told me a lot about her first marriage and oldest daughter who is close to 38 years old. She also explained why she did not want to discuss age with me during our first months….mostly because her experience is that young men, who she prefer and match best, often run away with the tail between their legs when they realize how old she is. Last year she dated a 26 year old man for few months but he disappeared when she revealed her age. My girl friend reach 59 later this year but she looks a lot younger. As she said, most people estimate her age at 40-45.

I love her for the person she is and I am proud to hold her hand in public because she does look a lot younger. Still I do have scruples about being intimate with a woman close to 60 years old. Unfortunately I do care about what her daughters, friends and family think of our relationship. I want to let go of these thoughts but it is difficult. Is our age gap acceptable and is our relationship realistic?

I need advise to handle this dilemma/situation.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Wow.


Okay, so she's 59 and your 28. A 31-year gap. I do think that is a significant age difference, but I have seen it work with other couples on the site.

I think it would bother me that she was not forthcoming about her age, her first marriage and her daughter, although I can certainly understand why it wasn't something that she just blurted out.

If every other aspect of the relationship is wonderful, I wouldn't let the age difference end it. But I do think there are things you need to think about and take into consideration and really realize before fully committing to this relationship for the long haul, or everyone will get hurt.

I do notice that when I see good relationships between people with this large of an age gap, they have talked endlessly about the issues that come with the gap. For example, children will not be an option. And well, statistically you will most likely outlive her by quite a bit, etc.

So I think it is a good idea to think about these issues and discuss them with your girlfriend....and make the decision that is best for both of you.

I also think that perhaps Bubbleee or Bella or someone who has a larger age-gap than I would be able to kind of bring to light the issues of a larger age gap, and how they worked through those, etc.

I do think that love can overcome any size age gap, and I have seen it happen. But I do also think that it is very important to know exactly what you are facing, and to make the decision that is best for you.

its amazing that when ever we try to hide the truth it comes back and bites us in the ***. you are whirling, you have information that YOU need time to accept. i understand her fear and feel for her because right now she is feeling the fact she did not tell you the truth, she was afraid to lose you and now might.

its time for YOU to come to grips with this information and also to know if there are any more secrets she has not let out of the bag, she on the other hand may be successful on worldy terms but yet has come to her own self acceptance.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my husband thinks i am HOT, not all men find me attractive and thats ok, beauty that is only skin deep.

she owes you a BIG apology and needs to do some soul searching about honesty in love relationships.

Hej Scandinavian (not sure which country you're from though), I just wanted to gently encourage you not to worry about what is "acceptable" as far as age gaps. Acceptability is what you decide it is, if you are happy with this woman then that is what counts, not what other people think. Have her daughters, friends and family expressed negativity?

As you have been finding out, other people are not automatically critical of age gaps. Your girlfriend's colleague was not only supportive, she's in a major AGR herself! IF you run into opposition, deal with it THEN, and not before. A lot of potentially great loves have been called off for fear of what only MIGHT happen. That's sad. I know for some it is tough to go against the "norm" in society...but here, we really do encourage people to be happy in THEIR chosen way.

Välkommen till ageless... :)

I agree with Kitty...deception of any kind can be hard on a relationship, let alone an agr which has its own issues as it is.

I mean so what if the previous guys have bolted, at least they were honest and didn't take advantage of a free booty call and leave her an emotional wreck. Not everyone is going to be accepting of such a large gap and its sad all around because now you have feelings for this woman...if you dump her you'll be labeled a jerk and if you stay with her...if you can't get pass the age, you'll be miserable. For many age is an issue and that's ok too, but you would've made a more inform decision if she had just been honest from the beginning. In essence she made sure you were hooked in before she was forthcoming with any other information.

And no one wants to be intentionally decieve, too, and now two people who could've been completely and honourably in love have to suffer a conflict within themselves on how to proceed with this situation. I hope she doesn't make this a habit, or she'll be miserable the rest of her life. I mean wouldn't it be better to tell the truth from the beginning and know that a guy seriously wants to be with her, inspite of her age, instead of her guilting him into staying with her.

well, you're at this point now. Its time to do some real down home soul searching...as Jo said, statistically you might outlive her, children are not an option (adoption agencies are iffy about an older person adopting as well), and if she lives for the next 20 years or so, that would make you 48, will you still desire to want children at that age or will you live with regrets, as now you would have to reverse your choices to a younger woman.

But really think on it, don't leave this woman to wonderings and uncertainty. Give yourself time to think it through and then make a decision asap. I can't tell ya how well this large of a gap works or not...there really are no statistics. But its most definitely up to the two people involve, and how much effort they'll willing to put into it to the exclusion of anyone else.

paris

Is our age gap acceptable and is our relationship realistic?


Yes, and yes. :) My g/f is 18 years older than me, and we have been together for over a year and are very happy so these type of relationships are realistic. Acceptable... well here's a little story... whilst out with my g/f last week we went to a bar and both had to show id. The guy noticed our ages, looked at us, grinned and basically said how good it was. Just shows that people out there do accept it.

Also, though your g/f maybe should have told you her age within the first two months, I can understand why she didn't. I met my g/f and then didn't see her for about 4 months because we live in different countries. She was worried about the age gap and didn't want to tell me. All she would say is that she was probably about 7 years older than I thought... and I thought she was late thirties at the very most. I didn't find out her age until the night I flew over to see her last August and her wallet fell open on the bed, revealing her driving license and her age. I always told her that her age wouldn't matter to me, and it hasn't, but she was still worried about revealing it. Just maybe don't be TOO hard on her, it probably did scare her to death thinking about telling you.

here's another take from my own experience:

I'm 54 and have been in a "relationship" with a man who is now 27, for over four years. I use the italics because it has been up and down, on and off...due to many issues, but a huge one is our 27.5 year age gap. At one point (a couple of years into the relationship) he considered marriage, and I wanted to marry him as well. I don't think that he ever felt comfortable with the idea of fully committing himself to someone that much older than he is...and even though he probably doesn't want children, I don't think he's 100% sure of that either. And so it goes...we remain friends and in each other's lives. He has always been very open about his own confusion. We still love each other, but I've accepted that he'll never make a full commitment to me, and now that's okay. I just accept the relationship for what it is, when it is. He'd rather have me in his life than not, but I know we'll never fully be partners anymore either.

Sometimes I feel his knowing me keeps him from fully pursuing another relationship that he would find more appropriate for himself and me too, but most of the time I'm aware that we all have choices...we could each walk away completely any day of the week, but we never seems to want to let go entirely. At this point in our lives, I do think that we'll have a relationship that spans our lifetimes...however long they each may be. We definitely enrich and enhance each other's lives, and that's the place I think we've mutually come to....we're not madly in love anymore, but we're in a very comfortable and familiar and happy place with each other, and although it's not as passionate, it feels right for us.

I tell you all this because it's not an easy road with a huge age gap. Some are workable, some are not. I agree that this woman was deceptive by not being forthcoming, and that would bother me if I were in your shoes. I was up front from day one about my age (he thought I was a decade younger.) Conversely, if she really liked you, I can understand why she did it. That doesn't make it right, but certainly makes her human. It's hard to find people that you really connect with, and if she felt that way about you, she probably didn't want to chance ruining that opportunity. Unfortunately, it left you not knowing all the information you may have needed to move forward in the relationship.

I guess the real question becomes "What value does this relationship have for me?" You're the only one who can answer it, and time will tell how it plays out. I know at almost 55, I'm am seeing the handwriting on the wall as it relates to aging, and I am glad that I didn't marry my YM. I would rather deal with the problems and issues of aging with people my own age and leave him out of it. I can't see how he could relate to it, nor would I want him to. That's just how I feel about it....some people are healthier than others, and age isn't always the main indicator of that, but there just are things that happen that are inherent with aging, and there's no getting around it.

I may sound negative, and I'm not trying to be. I can't say I've had a negative experience, nor a totally positive one either, but it's one I'm certainly happy I've had. Best of luck with your decision making process. It's a tough one.

Hi,

I can sense your concern/emotion, perhaps confusion and fear. At this point in time you are at a standstill. You seemed ok with the relationship prior to your knowledge of the age of her other daughter. Then reality set in about your g/f's actual age. What I'm very concerned about is why she was not honest with you about her age from the very beginning. Despite her past experiences with YM, there is no excuse for "hiding" that information from you. I find that very unfair to you. Nevertheless, she has captured your heart as evidenced by your statement "I really love her." Now that your heart is involved, I can understand why your situation is a "dilemma." It is not easy for you to "run away" like the others because you love and care for her.

You are a special person who is intellectually and emotionally mature enough to have attracted and interested her. Although there is a significant age difference, I say age difference doesn't matter. Is the age gap acceptable? I say it is up to the both of you to decide that. To her, it appears that it is. As for you, you will have to decide that for yourself whether or not it is acceptable. Tell her your feelings. Communication is very important in any relationship, along with compassion and honesty.

Is your relationship realistic? Yes it can be as long as all the other issues that are bothering you are dealt with. You both need to really sit down and talk about your relationship and its issues. Discuss priorities and values. Are you compatible? Are you both willing to support each other during the stages of your life? In 20 years, you'll be 48 and she'll be 79.

I wish you the very best as you make your decision. Trust your intuition as I did with my love, Adam. We both decided that our age difference is acceptable, not what society thinks. And, this is for real!

Norie

Hi Scandinavian,
the agegap of my relationship is not that big but it's still a generation. She is 56 and I am 29. We are living together for nearly 2 years now and we are a couple for 2,5 years. So I would say your relationship is VERY realistic.

As for your scruples - I had them too at the beginning. My lady has a son who is exactly the same age than me - and yep, this did feel very strange for me at the beginning. But after a short while I realised that there is absolut nothing wrong with what I was wanting to do... Have a relationship with the women I fell in love with and of course be intimate with her.

You care what others think.. I'd say we all do! It's been a week now since you know about her real age. Thats not so long.. take your time to let it sink in. And I promise you: you will meet lots of people who will accept your relationship for what it is: Love. There will be others who wont.. but you would find them too if your lady were 25...

Wishing you the best for your relationship!

If you love each other then go for it.

I am concerned when she is 80 etc but that depends on you.

Who cares what anyone thinks but the two of you. I am in a similar situatuon and I don't want to watch my lady grow old (28 and shes 45) but we hold hands and smooch in public but I do worry about the future, I just don't want to be without her.

Ask yourselves of what you see in your futures together.

You will bond and grow together and adapt if you both choose to.

So make the choice and the rest is history.

Good luck and be happy

So, you find a woman you truly like, you like to be with, and who truly likes you. The only problem is you have a big age gap. Lots to think about, and it truly isn't for everyone. There is no dishonor if you think it through and decide you maybe just can't handle it.

Children are the big issue. The one she already has, and the ones you won't have if you are with her long term. How important is that to you? Can you take being a step father to someone of that age?

Yeah, statistically, you'll lose her while you're still young, and the poems about grow old along with me, just don't hold true with an age gap like this one. Are you the type of person who can take what life offers and be grateful for the now? Can you look at her, and think you'll love the person, not the body? And mean it?

The only thing that really bothers me about your post is two sentences, "I am proud to hold her hand in public because she does look a lot younger. Still I do have scruples about being intimate with a woman close to 60 years old." If you aren't proud to hold her hand in public, just because she's her, and not because she looks younger, it isn't going to work. She's not always going to look younger. And why the heck would you have scruples about being intimate with a woman close to 60 years old. It isn't like she's a nun or something. Scruples mean that there's something immoral or something. She's a woman, she's legal, it's not immoral, if you love her.

We're 50 and 22, I do look older than him, obviously, and he is NEVER embarassed about displaying affection for me in public, and if he was, we wouldn't last. If you are, than please do her a favor and don't string her along.

Only you can know if this kind of relationship is for you, but think seriously about it, and be honest with her, ok?

Great post, Bella!

I am proud to hold my lady's had simply because she's my lady. With an eighteen year age gap between us, she is not too much younger than your' lady, Scandanavian, and while she looks youthful, so do I. I grew a beard in to look at least my own age and it sort of works, but without it, most people think that I look 25. When people thought I was 25 I was proud to hold her hand and to be seen in public with her.

I can understand the concern for the age gap, but if you truly love her, is it worth losing out just because? No earthly relationship is permanent anyway, so enjoy it while you are both able. Love her for her , not for her looks. You will soon find that her age and looks won't even matter; she'll be youthful and beautiful in your eyes all the time :D ! Believe me, I speak from personal experience.

Dan Echo

You hit the nail on the head, Dan! I'm reminded of the time my ladyfriend told me that She wondered what people thought when they saw us in public. We proceeded to eat at a restaurant where we were waited on by a waitress who was probably younger than my ladyfriend, but who looked and acted pretty old (heavy cigarette voice, caked on make-up, etc.). This waitress started out calling both of us dear and graduated to "you kids". By the time She handed my ladyfriend "your husbands to go box", we were both pretty happy.

Thank you, Buffeaut, although I was wrong about one thing (well sort of). I said "no earthly relationship lasts forever", and the nature of any earthly relationship does not. I do not believe that when we die, that we just end up stuck in the ground. Nor do I believe that we wind up on a cloud playing a harp (I'll take an electric guitar, thank you very much).

I do believe that I will see my lady in eternity, and as I have said in other posts, I would hate to think that I passed her up because she would age for a little while, only to find that for eternity, she is unaging and I missed out on having been with her because I couldn't get past the aging of her earthly exterior.

I know that not everyone shares my beliefs, I do think that all will agree that there is much, much more to any of us than our earthly exterior, and the relationships that truly last are not the ones based on external appearance, but those based on our love of our partner for who they are.

First, dear Scannie...be sure that you are hubby material...if not then...are you prepared for LTR relationship?? Her concern and fear is understandable and so is your feelings...but in the long term both of you may become bruised if you donot carefully consider all the "ins" and "outs" of a relationship...

No, a man should not be ashamed of being seen with his Special One (But stay out of PTA meetings if there is one!!). One must draw a line what the society can dictate (actually your peer and colleagues wd be mildly amused and interested...that's all) about our personal lives, infact the society has much changed in all respects (You are from Scandinavia?? Wow don't they believe in free love and free living??) but think of the longterm impacts in your mutual lives....

Best of Luck.....

The only thing that really bothers me about your post is two sentences, "I am proud to hold her hand in public because she does look a lot younger. Still I do have scruples about being intimate with a woman close to 60 years old." If you aren't proud to hold her hand in public, just because she's her, and not because she looks younger, it isn't going to work. She's not always going to look younger. And why the heck would you have scruples about being intimate with a woman close to 60 years old. It isn't like she's a nun or something. Scruples mean that there's something immoral or something. She's a woman, she's legal, it's not immoral, if you love her.

We're 50 and 22, I do look older than him, obviously, and he is NEVER embarassed about displaying affection for me in public, and if he was, we wouldn't last. If you are, than please do her a favor and don't string her along.

Only you can know if this kind of relationship is for you, but think seriously about it, and be honest with her, ok?

Bella and I are in a similar space with our relationships and she had helped me frame how I feel about it so very much. I almost always agree with her advice because I think the same way. And, perhaps, because we both approach our AGR's in a similar fashion, they are successful thus far.

I believe I can speak for both of us (Bella and myself) in that we don't expect "less" of a relationship because we have such a very large gap (I'm 53 and he's 20). I don't expect Phil to be less because he's younger. I expect him to be the best man and partner he can be at 20, since he's chosen to do so. My age should have nothing to do with that expectation and it doesn't. I think that the challenges that Bella and folks like us face are not unlike other healthy relationships with the addition of OUTSIDE pressure regarding the gap. I guess because I'm over 50, I have the attitude that if folks don't like me and what I'm doing, they can go pound sand, lol.

Phil knows he can't have children with me. He knows I'll be 83 when he's 50 if I we're blessed to live that long and be together that long. The road we have traveled in our two years together hasn't always been smooth but he's steadfastly here. I have never doubted that.

Families always have some kind of issues about all sorts of things. But at the end of the day you have to live your life and they have to live theirs. I've been here for Phil when nobody else was. And I know Bella has been there for David, in exactly the same way. So many folks have a far from perfect family situation.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

Hi everybody!


I have been quiet for a while because I am confused and try to get a foothold. My girl friend and I meet every weekend at her place and she has allowed me to move in if I am ready.

My girl friend is now 59 years old and I am 27. We celebrated her birthday two weeks ago where I also met her oldest daughter for the first time.

At your request I have had more deep conversations with my girl friend about my frustrations. I worry a lot about the prospect of our relationship and it is difficult to get used to the pattern of sex roles here in California. My parents are now aware that she is 59 years old but I got no real useful reaction from them.
My girl friend is very straightforward when we discuss the whole situation. She claims that she wants a long term relationship, that she loves me, that she is attracted to me.....she sees us as a future couple if I realize that she can not give birth to my children. I can not categorically say that I am willing to give up children but I reciprocate her feelings and I am not willing to give up our relationship. A dilemma I have to solve through your comments.

I am surprised that so many middle-aged women here in the USA are dating or living with much younger men. At first I was convinced that this phenomena was limited but according to my girl friend it is no longer a trend or a phenomena - it is facts and not uncommon anymore. Apparently a lot of single middle-aged women are very particular about men because they are youthful, good looking, independent and often powerful women. What frighten me and make me hesitate as regards moving in is that five of my girl friends female friends are in a relationship with a young men my age or even younger. These women are 53-61 years old why we are dealing with differences in age of 28-37 years. My girl friend does not give any negative signals but I still have the thought at the back of my mind that I might become a victim of a trend or a passing interest/sport among these middle-aged women..
I have had the opportunity for meeting these women/couples more times now and I am impressed how youthful, well-groomed and self-confident these women appear. I am convinced that these women have been through facial treatments and maybe plastic surgeries like my girl friend but what different does it make if you look young by nature or because you have paid for it? These women know exactly what they want and aren't afraid to go after it. They have power, experience, a lot of baggage, take initiatives, are fun to talk to, financially settled, and are more adept sexually. Qualities I and apparently also other young men appreciate. They have an air of confidence and maturity missing from women my/our own age.

I am very attracted to these women but at the same time I feel a bit interior and less masculine because they are in such a strong position. Being wined and dined by a woman in a restaurant is refreshing but also unconventional. They disqualify men over 30 and compete aggressively with young women for very young men. Things are out of order here!

My girl friend claims that she and her female friends were looking for men younger than 25 when they started dating through “dating agencies” and dating sites. Her arguments for such a discerning taste was that they wanted to start a relationship from scratch to an unspoiled, open, accepting, appreciative young man with no important baggage and expectations. They were looking for companionship, travel, fun, experiences, physical attraction and important a man with a less-developed career.

Our pattern of sex roles are very sharp in Europe - a working father and a mother at home and the husband is always older than the woman. A contrast with the lifestyle of these modern middle-aged women who do not need a provider or a successful husband. They have their own career and are able to pay their way out of problems traditionally lifted by men. I like powerful women a lot but at the same time it is a bit frightening that these women undermine the masculinity a lot of men are clinging to. And just to illustrate that you are changing the sex roles here in California and make the men feel lees masculine I have to mention an experience from last week in a department store. Here my girl friend and I witnessed a group of female bodybuilders advertising sportswear. They were bigger and more muscular than the majority of men and I honestly felt uncomfortable standing next to them. What do we men have left if this trend also develops? My girlfriend is an executive. She has a male secretary/assistent and her staff consist of mainly men. We see female boxers and women competing against men in golf. What is going on?
In Europe we have a golden rule that the trends we see in America will reach us later but these trends are really provocative.

Do you agree with my girl friend that these trends become everyday occurences or will we return to the "normal" pattern of sex roles? If a self-confident woman over 50 will leave her husband for a younger man as a fundamental rule what is going to happen with marriage? Will we no longer be able to talk about the weakest and strongest sex?

I am more confused than frustrated because I am attracted to mentally (not physically strong) strong and powerful women. I am not old fashioned and are open for new constellations but I honestly think that women over here are challenging social norms.


A confused Scandinavian

I am like taken aback by your observations and what you wrote about women 53 and over looking for men younger than 25! I do not know what to say.... I need to think about this. BUT I did send you a pm a while back, just in case you do not know about them.

I am not old fashioned and are open for new constellations but I honestly think that women over here are challenging social norms.

I don't really know how to respond to this either, to be honest. But, the sentence I quoted made me giggle a bit.

You're not "old fashioned?" :eek: Ummm... if you're so worried about the roles of men/women and/or role reversals and you think the husband should be older and the breadwinner and women should be younger and home makers (which your post basically implied was the standard in Europe??), then you are old fashioned. Hate to break it to you.

But, I really think you are doing your OW a HUGE injustice on every level! You're attracted to her for power, but yet feel emasculated. This isn't cool. You want children, but know you can't have them with her. You fear you are being played with and are just the flavor of the week for these older women (and I'm not disinclined to think you ARE anything BUT just that ~ if you're thinking that, HUGE RED FLAG and its time to stop confusing yourself!!)

All I see in your post is... red flag.... red flag... even redder flag... BIGGER red flag. It's so obvious this isn't the right thing for you or it wouldn't be so hard to wrap your brain around the idea ~ to trust and believe in her (if you think you're being played, you don't trust her!!!)

*shakes head* Wish I could say more, but I'm not sure there is the need...
~phos

Scandinavian,

I enjoyed reading your post. California is VERY different from Europe in many ways and very different from the rest of the US as well, in lots of respects. California is an "early adopter" of trends that possibly will expand to other parts of the country in fashion, culture, foods, etc.

I've been told by lots of YM that they find the strength and confidence of OW extremely appealing. We don't get these wrinkles for nothing. We earn them! However, I'm not sure I understand your fear of emasculation. Phil and I are roughly the same gap as you and your girlfriend. Regardless of how successful or strong I may be, I'm not going to try to extinguish Phil's masculinity. Yes, he knows how to clean the bathroom and do dishes. But he also knows how to shoot firearms, play football, be a strong shoulder to cry on,, etc. And if money's tight, which it has been lately, he goes out and buys the groceries on his part time salary when needed.

What you need to strive for in any relationship is balance. Balance of power, balance of giving and getting, etc. REGARDLESS of the gap. Balance for both the partners is a key to a successful relationship whether their is a gap or not. Having said that, European sexual stereotype roles are more old-fashioned and to the right of balance. California probably leans more to the left of balance. You need to find the happy medium for you both.

As far as children are concerned, with a gap as large as ours, it is quite possible that the younger partner could be in their late 40's or early 50's when the older partner passes. It might be kind of late in life, but many men have had children in their 50's and 60's with younger women. Look at Paul McCartney! He just had a baby and he's probably 62 or so.

I'd be interested to hear what some of our California residents think of your observations. I lived in California about 20 some years ago, and what happens there is not always the norm for the rest of the country.

4-1-2005
Posted by scandinavia27
I am 28 she is 58 and married
I met a fantastic woman, we really felt for eachothers. She is a married woman, and she cant help it she says, she likes so much. we communicate on phone/sms, and are planning to meet. I know it is wrong, since she is married. What should I do ? I am not sure, because I really want her. And she wants me.
But I guess none of us are thinking L-T-R right now...

6-4-2005
Posted by scandinavia27 I am 29, and have got involved to a very nice woman at 48.She lives only 1 hour from me. But she is married. She is going
to move away from him. I feel very much for this woman... !!
She is so great !!

any good hints and tips ?

If this is you, it sounds like you have had a part in breaking up a marriage. Doesn't that bother you? I know that it would me. So sad... :( I mentioned it because you posted this today: If a self-confident woman over 50 will leave her husband for a younger man as a fundamental rule what is going to happen with marriage?

IF this is NOT you... someone else is living almost a parallel life with you!

I am impressed how youthful, well-groomed and self-confident these women appear. I am convinced that these women have been through facial treatments and maybe plastic surgeries like my girl friend but what different does it make if you look young by nature or because you have paid for it?


Here you go again with the "looks" thing. What difference does it make if you DONT look young? It seems to me from this statement you made and the one before about holding her hand in public because she LOOKS young, that as an older woman Id be pretty leary of a relationship with you and would feel the minute I got a wrinkle, youd be out the door unless I could afford plastic surgery to maintain the youthful look which makes me acceptable to you. :(

If a self-confident woman over 50 will leave her husband for a younger man as a fundamental rule what is going to happen with marriage? Will we no longer be able to talk about the weakest and strongest sex?

First I disagree that it will ever be a fundamental rule, that woman over 50 will leave their husbands for a younger man. I know that was not my goal or objective, and in fact the last thing I was thinking of when I happened to meet my y/m.

I am not successful, and do not look 40, but my y/m loved me for ME, not because I could pass for someone a lot younger. We have a 30 yr age gap.

I didnt fall for him because he was inexperienced or had less of an income , or even thought about those things. I loved him for his sensitivity, his humor, his intelligence, his compassion and the fact that we could be completely honest with each other , respected each other and had the same beliefs and thoughts about almost everything.

As to no longer being able to talk about the weakest and strongest sex anymore............. SO WHAT??? The way I see it we each compliment each other, and we each have weaknesses and strengths. So what if there are good woman golfers, or famous male ballet dancers, women truck drivers, or male nurses.

Whats going to happen with marriage you ask??? Well for me once they get rid of all the " ME TARZAN , YOU JANE" roles, it becomes a wonderful thing. How nice it is to BOTH have a say in things, to BOTH work together taking care of the house and kids if you have them, to BOTH decide what furniture to buy or where your going on vacation or how to raise your kids etc. To me, the real man is the one who like Bubbleee said, he knows how to clean the bathroom and do dishes. But he also knows how to shoot firearms, play football, be a strong shoulder to cry on,, etc. And if money's tight, which it has been lately, he goes out and buys the groceries on his part time salary when needed.

Other than that, I think Id sum things up the way fos did in her assessment of things as well as what Bella, Bubbleee and a lot of the others have said here.

Scandinavian,

Thanks for the interesting and insightful post on this issue.

I hope that you find good answers how to proceed in your situation.

I simply wanted to add: Why shouldn't these women take up younger men? If they want to and if they can. They have plenty to offer to them, not just in the money compartment like you said. Should they regard the general idea of masculinity and observe the traditional gender roles just for the sake of it? Did the older, affluent males care about the woman's dignity and freedom to express herself when they took much younger wives (which they have been doing over all these centuries)? Do you think they did this in order to maintain the sanctity of marriage? No, they only cared about having a beautiful, young, submissive wife because they were able to afford one.

It is logical that the gender roles change in this situation. If a woman makes good money, is stable and experienced and open to dating, then I see no reason why she shouldn't explore within the younger pool of men. It doesn't mean she wants to exercise more of her power or to subjugate the younger men, she simply finds them more refreshing and attractive. She is self-sufficient, and doesn't need an older male pushing her around like they have been doing for centuries. Besides, women live longer than men.

These women have worked hard in their careers and have obviously invested a lot in improving their lives. They have built their lives and their affluence themselves. They don't owe anything to an older man, they don't owe themselves and their presence to them. And even though it does switch the gender roles a bit, I don't really think this jeopardises masculinity to such a large extent, because this is not a typical model, it is just a lifestyle that some people choose. I don't see any reason why these women shouldn't be able to choose it.

And you cannot emasculate a man simply by being older than him or making more money. Masculinity is about how confident each particular man feels about himself. I'm sure there are rich older man who don't feel secure about their masculinity.

And where in Europe do you find the old roles being the standard? In Scandinavia? Not. Some of the most liberal societies there with a historically strong woman's role, Sweden and Norway in particular. As far as I know, in Europe both parents work, and they are supposed to share the load equally. Maybe in South Italy it is different.

When it comes to marriage.. do you really believe that this is the phenomena that will break it? The traditional marriage has been in crisis for quite some time now. Look at the divorce rates between traditional couples. Look at how many children are born out of wedlock. This has been going on long since these older women started taking up younger partners. In the Netherlands, for instance, a large part of couples don't even get married but live simply as partners. One can ponder whether this is good or bad, but it is simply an objective fact of life. Don't try to scapgoat or blame these women for something that our culture has already created as it evolved.

Look, strong, independent women bring a lot to this world. They benefit society by being strong, dilligent and effective. They deserve to be respected for that and most of all they deserve freedom which wasn't simply bestowed upon them by some "ancien regime" but because they have truly earned it.

I Dont Know What To Say...first Off As Its Pretty Obvious Scandinavian Is Pretty Obvious...number Two I Dont Have Any Sympathy With Him For The Simple Reason That He Refuses To Do What He Wants To Do...he Is More Worried About Other People About Cultures About The Postition Of Women About What Is Means To Be A Man(lol)...i Guess Its A World Wide Conspiracy ...

I Mean He Has Turned The Issue Of Dating A Women Into One Of Great Sociological Dilemma...get Over It...if You Want To Date Her Do So...if You Dont Want To Thats Ok Too....and About The Woman Lying About Her Age...give Me A Break Everybody Lies At Some Point...maybe Its A Moral Issue With Him Also...


I Had Fun Reading Your Posts But I Am Sorry I Dont Feel Bad Or Concerned About Your Dilemma

Well, I'm going to go with Fos here. RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE!
And Terminal I also agree that his concerns are mostly about what other thinks but I can see also that when he learned how old she is he became concerned.
Scandinavian, you cant make a decision based on what OTHERS think!
How do YOU feel in this relationship? You pretty much laid it out already.
I am not judging you on how you feel about the situation, just looking at it objectively.
What do you want in the long term? Honestly?
Do you see yourself with her in like 10-20 years from now? Ok, raw but true.
Think about it.
Do yourself and her a favor. Be honest about your feelings with her and this relationship.

SCAN??? SCAANNNN???? Where are you? :confused:

...Our pattern of sex roles are very sharp in Europe - a working father and a mother at home and the husband is always older than the woman. ...
In Europe we have a golden rule that the trends we see in America will reach us later but these trends are really provocative.
...

Well, just to let you know, things might be changing in Europe too. The traditional role model you are describing has been going out for at least a decade here in Germany, and I would consider Germans to generally be kinda conservative :p

Btw, I am 38, my Norwegian b/f is 21 ;) My niece, 32, is currently - and seriously -dating a 25 yr old. My b/f's family got friends who are in 16- to 20-yr gap OW/YM-relationships - and that sometimes for YEARS, in once case even for decades.

Not saying that what you are describing is the norm here yet, but you might find a trend just as noticeable in Europe these days as in the US ...

Just to keep the record straight :p

Happy New Year everybody!

My mother has been on a visit to me for about a week. She wants me to throw over my girlfriend because of her age and lifestyle. According to my mother my girlfriend and her female friends are afraid of getting old. This should be the reason why my girlfriend and her female friends are undergoing cosmetic surge-ries and surround themselves with very young men. She claims that I and the other young men are trophies because no 60+ women can be satisfied intellectually by dating a 20+ man.
Unfortunately my mother is not a good listener and she is very quick-tempered so my arguments are lost on her.
We went to see my girlfriend for a couple of days. Our stay was interrupted because my mother started arguing with my girlfriend about our relationship and called her ”Doll´s face” and a Cougar.
Now my girlfriend has given me the ultimatum that I break free from my mother and challenge her. If I do not she will reconsider our relationship. Now I am the pig in the middle and I simply do not know what to do because I want to please both of them.
My mother is old fashioned and my girl friend is trendy – extremes. I grant my mother that my girlfriend is denying her age by undergoing cosmetic surgery and living like a young woman. I also grant my mother that it is unnatural that a 59 year old woman has a face of a 35 year old woman and it is unsual that a whole group of 60+ women are so young looking and are dating men only 20+. I can not deny my mothers statements but I can´t see the problem because I love and value my girlfriend the way she is. Some of her friends are extreme because they look so young and date men only 18 years old just for sex. I can not approve this behaviour but my girl friend is different.

For different reasons my mother and my girlfriend have literally given me the cold shoulder. I am inca-pable of making a decision and take sides.
I am looking forward to receiveing your comments.

Scandinavian.

You say that you're "incapable of making a decision," but you'll be MAKING a decision by not making one, since your girl friend has given you an ultimatum (and I think she was more than justified in doing so). It sounds to me like your mother was deliberately rude to your girlfriend during the visit, in the hope that what would happen is exactly what DID happen -- hoping that her rudeness would prompt your girlfriend to give you an ultimatum and that you would problems standing up to your mother about it.

You're 28 years old, and that's plenty old enough to make your OWN decisions about your relationships. I valued my relationships with my parents, but if either of them had ever acted the way your mother did with somebody I was dating when I was your age, I would have been giving THEM an ultimatum -- that if they didn't want to treat somebody I cared about with respect, they weren't going to have much of a relationship with me.

You've got a much more important decision to make than the one about whether to continue your relationship with your girlfriend by putting your mother in her place, and that's how long you want to be an adult lives his life largely in order to satisfy his mother's expectations, rather than his own. Personally, I'd have told my mother that she was WAY out of line and that had better be no more repeats of such a performance, and I would have done it even if I thought the relationship to which she objected probably didn't have any future. I don't mean to be harsh, but if you can't see that, you're really not ready for ANY serious relationship (because I guarantee you, if your mother succeeds at this ploy, even if she initially approves of a subsequent relationship, there will come a point at which she objects to something about the person with whom your in the relationship and starts trying to interfere with that one, too).

Your concerns the last time you were on the board were what other people would think. This time, it's what your mother thinks. YOU'RE the one who is living your life, and it's way past time for you to start concentrating on YOUR values and what YOU think. Until you reach that point, you're not really an adult, whatever the date is on your birth certificate.

I don't think the relationship is viable. I think your mother was saying honestly how she felt. Why shouldn't she. I think women aggressively going after young men the way you describe is creepy. Ugh :eek:

I can't help but agree with your girlfriend; your mother was not simply expressing an opinion- she was very rude to your girlfriend. As her partner, it would have been best to defend your decision to be with her, as well as stand up to the rudeness.

Do you have `people pleasing' issues or something? I know its hard, but at some point in your life you'll have to learn how to defend the things you want in your life or you will lose them.

denying her age by undergoing cosmetic surgery and living like a young woman What does a young woman live like? As far as I know, they eat, drink, go to school or work and enjoy doing fun things. Pretty much the same as I do... at age 59. :eek: You and your mothers prejudice to older women is so blantant that I wonder why you are with your girlfriend sometimes. :confused:

You can't seem to see the forest for the trees. It is not about chosing one woman over another. It is about telling your Mom to not butt into your business and treat your girlfriend so horribly. You may be 27 but your behavior is closer to 12. Grow a back bone and stand up for your woman the minute she is being treated badly. If you can't do that, then you are too tied to your mother & brain-washed, to have a healthy relationship. :(

Right On YellowRose!!! You said it straight up!!! I agree. If you can't stand up for what you believe in....(namely your relationship with this most fabulous older woman)...than maybe you aren't ready for a real adult relationship. Sorry to be so blunt Scan....but as my mom used to say..." It's crap or get off the crapper time:!! Dee

Scandinavian

I have been reading through this and I feel that you have brought out some great questions in dealing with this situation. Your love and understanding for your mothers fears, I think are admirable... although I do agree that a discussion should be set with her about keeping these comments to herself or at least between you and her. I think in all respects this decison is yours, and you will make it in the right way by listening to your heart. None of what ANYONE says matters, not even we that you are turning to on this site. In all honesty with yourself, how do you feel about her love for you? I say you make her try some lutefisk (hence the title of this... wasn't meaning anything other than some good ole norvegian humor)..... if she still loves you....she's in! ....just kiddin.... This was a good test to tell of the love that my grandma had for my grandpa.... she stuck around with that smell for 50 plus years!
Love has no bounderies... but you have to search your soul and know deep down that your intentions are true. I have to admit I have some questions about hers.... What if she were to meet someone older than she intends to who clicked with her the way that you do. Would this deter the relationship, even if this man had the looks to keep her interest? In other words if your soul were in an older body.... would this feeling still prevail? or... vice versa?

I wish you all lifes truest.... I was captivated by all of your questions, and feel that you seek what is beautiful truth. The best to you!

Scandinavian

My two cents:

1) Your lady does sound like she could be, and at least her friends, cougars, BUT!!! don't judge all other older women who are strong, independent, secure, successful, and do what they can to feel good about themselves, as cougars. Myself, and I believe most of the women on this site, didn't didn't set off to find a young man many years younger than ourselves. I would much prefer that my b/f was nearer my age.
2) You say you are incapable of making a decision. At 28 years of age, if your mother is still such an influence in the decisions you make, then, you are not ready for an age gap relationship, let alone a large agr.
3) I am a California girl through and through, but I have lived on the East Coast, and, yes, I think we are very different. I felt like I was in a foreign country until I got west of the Misssissippi. Driving from Florida to L.A. the more west we got, the more comfortable I felt in terms of people accepting you for what you are. Neighbors mind there own business. People believe in "live and let live." They don't try to impose their values on others. I think that's why we are so progressive. You can be different, and it's okay as long as it's legal---mmmm---or not that illegal. :D I also feel very comfortable in Oregon, Washington state, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico.As an aside, though, I note that most of the women on this forum seem to be from the East Coast. Having an agr here in CA just doesn't seem to raise anyone's hackles, that much, anyway.

My husband is from Europe. Both of his parents worked the entire time he was growing up.

He's 26 years old, and I will be 53 in March. We've lived together for five years now and are just as happy now as we were in the beginning.....even happier.

When my husband first told his parents that he was in love with a woman even older than his mother, they freaked out! They were going to fly to California ( ;) ) and convince him to go back home to France. He told them not to bother because he was in love and was not going to leave me for anything.

I haven't had any cosmetic surgery (although I don't think there's anything wrong with someone doing it if they want it), and I wasn't trying to find a ym in order to make me feel younger. As a matter of fact, having a younger partner often makes one feel older, not younger!!

For years and years people have just accepted the fact that older men were with younger women. Many of us women (and men) are sick and tired of people telling us what we should do and shouldn't do. Whose lives are we living? Our lives or the lives of others? We shouldn't give other people the power to think they can dictate to us how we should live our lives.

There's a new book out by bestselling author and cultural observer, Gail Sheehy, called Sex and the Seasoned Woman. Gail writes, "Sex and the Seasoned Woman is the story of an intimate revolution taking place right under our noses." She writes, "This is a new universe of passionate, liberated women - married and single - who are unwilling to settle for the stereotypical roles of middle age and are now realizing they don't have to." She also writes, "Around the world, more and more seasoned women are feeling free to date younger men." And, "There is enough of a subculture now of older women hooking up with much younger men to spawn a website: AgelessLove.com." ;)

Hi!

I think we are dealing with a cultural clash here. Some of you think that my mother and I are prejudiced and you rage about our opinions. I am from Europe but from a very small community with norms different from yours. The reason I debate with you is that I want to integrate to the californian lifestyle and not be-cause I want to tear the Californian culture to pieces. There is no doubt that our different cultural back-grounds make our relationship difficult sometimes and that is what bothers me right now.

My girlfriend is 59 years old. She is only a few years younger than my grandmother. Facts which my mother finds very surrealistic because a woman according to our norms finds a man her age or older. This argument doesn´t justify her actions but she is frustrated because she is dreaming about grand-children. She finds our relationship very unnatural and in the light of this completely untenable. In her universe I am just af feather in my girlfriends hat – a trophy.
I am getting used to it but to foreigners it can be difficult to relate to that older women over here look and live much different from older women from my mothers culture. My mother is in her mid forties but my girlfriend who is close to 60 looks much younger than she does because she has gone through cosmetic procedures several times. Standing face to face with my girlfriend was too much for her. Shaking hands with a 59 year old woman with a face of a 35 year old woman was too surreal she told me on our way home to my place. My mother was not relaxed together with my girlfriend because the whole situation was so surreal to her. This resulted in an outburst of feelings because my mother felt inferior to my girlfriend, envious of her look and this combined with her accumulated feelings about our relationship she lost her head.

Some of you claim that most older women have not chosen to be with a younger man – it happens by chance. This might be true but it is not what I see. I experience a whole group of 60+ women who seek and date very young men for sex and fun. Now most of them seem to relax a litte because they have found what they have been looking for. Do they represent this new subculture of modern, goal-oriented and self-confident women as described by this author one of you mentioned?

I have had long discussions with my girlfriend about her lifestyle and her focus on youth because I am curiious to know why she has given up marriage and chosen to put the clock bag by rejuvenating herself and surround herself with young people or young looking people. Her answers are not clear but I am about to grant my mother that she and her friends are afraid of getting older and I have insinuated that. She thinks about more cosmetic procedures but I think it is getting out of control. I grant her that her look had an effect on my interest in her when we met because the thought never crossed my mind that she was close to 60. In the light of this her focus on her appearance was a succes. If she continues to rejuve-nate herself she ends up looking younger than I do within a couple of years. One of her friends, a 65 year old woman looks incredible young and I do not want my girlfriend to end up like her. I think it is a fair choi-se when a woman decides to find a younger partner and improve her look through plastic surgery. But her choices have advantages and disadvantages. For the time being the losers are the husbands because my girlfriend and her friends have chosen to do without them. But in the long run I am afraid that my girlfriend ends up unhappy because she can not stay young forever. Except for her friends of her age who have chosen the same route she has no friends of her age anymore. I think it is an alarming trend.because she gives offence to her former friends because her conduct of life is different and becau-se she by now looks more like a daughter than a friend of the same age.

You might think that I puzzle over our relationship too much but you have to understand that this is about ”getting used to it”. I have to realize that a rising number of older women choose this new route because they are able to and want to. Reading your letters have had a calming effect on me because I realize that our relationship and the lifestyle of my girlfriend and her friends are not isolated cases.

I will try to persuade my mother to apologize to my girlfriend though it seems difficult.

Thanks for listening to my thoughts…..it helps a lot.

Scandinavian.

Scandinavian,

Just as a comment, although I understand your questions, I also think that at times you express excessively judgmental thoughts about the person you supposedly love.

And you seem to be overly influenced by your mother. Or else you're hiding behind `supporting and understanding' her opinions rather than having the courage to say that you share her opinions. You mother is not a part of your romantic relationship. Youre an adult now, and she cannot control you, nor it is her role. Unless of course, you're just using her as someone to hide behind and do your dirty work for you.

With regards to the cosmetic surgery and all the judgements about women who are in their fifties and sixties being afraid of death and losing their youth........too right! You'd feel the same way........Any intelligent person resents being treated like trash at the time in their lives when they are most powerful and accomplished, just because their appearance has aged. Men don't want them. Employers won't hire them for good money. They are invisible. It is a horrible experience and I think it is easy enough to understand why people do things which help them cope with this terrible treatment from other people and society. Even you admitted that without the cosmetic surgery, you would not have wanted your girlfriend....well you can't have it both ways!

Sorry if this post comes off as harsh. It just seems that you are not giving your girlfriend your heart nor truly loving her right now, and that whats blocking your lvoe is your excessively judgemental stance. I think you're smart and thoughtful, and i wish you the best.

...I am getting used to it but to foreigners it can be difficult to relate to that older women over here look and live much different from older women from my mothers culture. My mother is in her mid forties but my girlfriend who is close to 60 looks much younger ....

First of all, I agree with Bella_D :)

Secondly, my b/f and I were just cracking up about your notion of what is normal these days in Europe/Scandinavia ...

As I mentioned before, my b/f is Norwegian and he has found your impression of "your mother's culture" pretty much off the mark, tbh.

He says it might be like that in your family and that small community you have been referring to but he doesn't actually come from a big town himself, but he has found a lot of acceptance for YM/OW relationships, more than expected, really ;) Mind you, our age gap is much less than yours ofc.

Still, it doesn't sound like it's the thing for you, to be honest, which would be fine, as Bella keeps saying it's not for everyone and yours IS a big gap ...

Just be aware that the cultural norms you have in your mind are not that true anymore ... (ok, my b/f would have posted this far more "straightforward" *cough* - so I am just giving you the gist here :p).

Best wishes,
C.

Scandinavia,
Like everyone else I have 'enjoyed' reading this thread. I read these mostly because I am intrigued by human psychology. A bit about me: I'm 49-1/2 and my partner is 35. He is a young looking 35 and I've had people ask me if he were my son. He responded to my personal online ad, knowing my age. I was not looking for a younger man specifically. We have been together 2-1/2 years.
From what you have posted, my reaction is quite different than most of the other women here. I find myself sympathizing with your mother and repulsed by your girlfriend (sorry, nothing personal).
Let's face it, all the experts say that at least 18 months to 2 years of a 'love' relationship is really all about chemistry and sex. I posted a thread some time back entitled "the truth about love." I still agree with my post.
So, in essence, in between the 'but I love her,' read what you are really concerned about and the issues that keep coming up. I see you as being hit by a double, triple whammy. Coming to America. New job. THAT in itself would be a big change and adjustment. But on top of that, you have gotten into an enclave of women who aren't the norm in America, but an elite few who have the money to fight time and age and go after young men.
I have a problem with men or women who can't face aging. Hollywood has its share of 'scarey' people who refuse to age and they don't look right! People who can't handle aging are not allowing themselves to mature emotionally and spiritually. The emphasis is still on the outside and not on the inside. No one can live forever. There's a difference between a little nip and tuck and repeated plastic surgeries every year (micheal jackson, barbara eden, marie osmond come to mind immediately) By using plastic, some people are in denial about death and what their second half of life should be about. (Last week I read "once upon a midlife" by alan chinen; about drawing on the psychological wisdom found in fairy tales for the mid-life years).
You are drawn to this woman's power and money. She has invited you to move in with her. I say "run" in the opposite direction! Give the relationship a lot more time before even considering that scenario.
My counselor gets $90 for a 50-minute hour and you know what it boils down to that he tells me: be true to yourself. Scandinavian, I applaud you for being open minded and striving to embrace a new culture. BUT don't lose yourself and don't feel badly about keeping to your standards. Your hormones and chemistry are no doubt stirred by this woman but from what you've posted, every other cell in your body is saying NO!
And personally, I can't help but believe that once the newness of all this wears off for you, you won't find this set of people attractive after all. AND I keep wondering about the friend who 'accidentally' let it out about the 38 year old daugther. Why didn't she just say 'another daughter?' I wonder why she got so specific. I wonder if she wasn't trying to warn you away? I am suspicious that your girlfriend says she is not interested in just a trophy boy toy yet her friends are? Why would she want to continue having friends like that? Enough of my rattling. Best of luck to you in your new life here.

Scandinavian,

I really have to thank you for posting what you have on here. The ego is a powerful, decieptful, and harsh realization for humanity to swallow. It can be equated with so many things... almost every "thing". Any kind of attachment to something that pulls you away from your spirit is materialism. It is an empty search for something that will inevitably end in pain. No-thing can make you truly satisfied or happy, except for the search for truth.

A beautiful thing about the human spirit is that we are all as old as we want or as young as we want to be... inside. Reality is harsh, and society unfortunately contributes a large dose of inferiority complex to undeserving groups through advertising, and at it's core ... greed. There are underlying prejudices wherever you look. It's confusing and something I personally do not wish to contribute to. Toys are fun, cosmetic surgery has done some beautiful things to make people feel much more confident about themselves, steak tastes great as long as I didn't know the cow... and the beat goes on. The bottom line is not whether you hit the finish line with the most beautiful things, it's all in how you played the game.

Personally, I think you've opened up a great can of worms. I am looking forward to enjoying what God gave me.

Thank you again for sharing your insight.

Frenchkissed, I can appreciate and agree with the spirit of what youre saying, for sure & I doubt very much that I will ever have cosmetic surgery myself. But I don't think I am spiritually superior because of this....life has thrown me certain challenges where I've been forced to deal with alienation (ie I've been really fat and, now, my partner is younger:), and I appreciate life as well as myself for other aspects of who I am. And this has given me a certain type of strength to endure such things as living without beauty.

I have a problem with men or women who can't face aging. Hollywood has its share of 'scarey' people who refuse to age and they don't look right! People who can't handle aging are not allowing themselves to mature emotionally and spiritually.

Aging is hard. I respect that each person chooses to deal with it in their own way.If surgery is their way, I can respect that too.

The emphasis is still on the outside and not on the inside. No one can live forever. There's a difference between a little nip and tuck and repeated plastic surgeries every year (micheal jackson, barbara eden, marie osmond come to mind immediately)

i dunno..its all the same to me...the same kind of spirit of intent. And its ok with me.

By using plastic, some people are in denial about death and what their second half of life should be about. .
I think these people are exploring what life can be at the peak of their knowledge, abilites, and wisdom, without having to lose credibility due to appearing `aged'. This is valid to me considering the empasis society places on youthful apearances. I think the basis fopr such things is fear of rejection, which is a normal human emotion.

You are drawn to this woman's power and money. She has invited you to move in with her. I say "run" in the opposite direction!

If this is the case, then scandevian is at fault, not his girlfriend. Love should not be so mercenary. Maybe he actually likes her?

Dear all!

”Frenchkissed” (liked your letter!) claims that I am drawn to my girl friends power and money. Hmmm!…I would rather say fascinated by her. Fascinated because she is different, powerful, good and young loo-king but also because she is a caring, experienced, challenging and intellectual woman. We have serve-ral common interests and she has a lot of qualities which I value but I worry about her secretiveness and the lifestyle of her female friends. I still do not know much about her past and she switch of when I question her. If she dissociated herself from the dating routines practised by her female friends she could put my mind at rest because it´s a signal that she probably never dated so many and so young men befo-re we met. Instead she shut me up when I comment on their dating routines and advise me to mind my own business. Her reluctance to deal with it make me insecure. I grant my girlfriend that I often want her to confirm me in my view that she is the only one for me. She claims that she doesn´t have the same need for knowing that I am the only one for her because she has been through marriage and long rela-tionships before. Months ago I happened to overhear a conversation between my girlfriend and one of her lively 60+ friends who told about her latest date. In real earnest this woman said, that her experience is that men over 22 are too complicated because they start making plans for future – shared living, children and so on. My girlfriend didn´t contradict her…she just laughed. I just turned 28? Will she replace me with a younger model?…..just thoughts.

Six women between 62 and 69 from my girlfriends circle now have boyfriends between 20 and 23. We celebrated New years Eve with four of these couples but it was a miserable failure – tense atmosphere and more like a set up. I do not think my girlfriend will be hostess for such a clientele ever again. At first sight these women can be mistaken for being 30-40 years old because of plastic surgery. It was very surreal watching how naturally it comes to these women kissing and hugging young men no older than their grandchildren. I grant my mother that these young men can be no mental challenge for these women – they are togehter for other reasons. If a 60+ woman is able to pick and chose among 20+ men – and these women have been able to - she has proven to herself that she is still attractive, good and young looking. Sex means a lot to my girlfriend so sex can also be a reason for being with a younger man. I am physically attracted to my girlfriend and no doubt that these young men are attracted to these young and good looking women too. I agree that emphasis should be on the inside but we also have to admit that the outside plays a part. None of these women would ever be able to attract a 20 year old man if her look was consistent with her age…let us face it. Honestly I think it is weird and a sign of an unbalance so-mewhere (society, individually…) that a 69 year old woman over years transforms her look to that of a 30-40 year old woman and ends up standing midnight New Years Eve on her toes and kissing deeply with a 21 year old man. What is the motive power for going through this transformation? I am curious not con-demnatory.

Maybe I just have to face that my girlfriends past is protected and she is not willing to make long-term planning about our future? She is more relaxed about our relationship than I am. It is true ”Frenchkissed” that I have experienced major changes in my life during the last couple of years – among these my rela-tionship to my girlfriend. This might be a reason why I need these positive signals about my girlfriends long-term intentions and it irks her.

I have not seen my girlfriend for a week because she has been playing hard to get because of my mother. Next weekend I am stayting with her again and hopefully she will loosen up. Do not worry ”Frenchkissed” I am not in a hurry to move in with my girlfriend – need more stability.

I appreciate your different point of views – they bring about knowledge and understanding. Looking for-ward to reading more letters from you.

Scandinavian

Scandinavia, Bella and all,
Thanks to everyone for kind and respectful responses. I often hesitate to post because I am afraid I will be too offensive. In some cases it is hard to be tactful yet honestly express oneself (I don't have the time, patience to formulate such replies!ha!).....in any regard, Scandinavia, it's great to hear your reply and see that you do have your feet on the ground. The contrast in your first couple of posts and your last one, from lots of confusion to more surety -- I think our responses are indeed serving their purpose, mirroring back what you need to see and clarify in your own mind......The next couple of years will be very life shaping for you. The years from 28-31 are potent and full of portent for the rest of your life. It is often at these years that you will experience a MAJOR life-shaping, changing event.
Also, anytime I reply or read someone else's reply to Scandinavia's posts, I am reminded of this fact: when someone says something to us, it says more about them than us.
While it is true that older men have been using young women as trophies for centuries, and feminists of today would say, so why not let women have their turn at it? I say: two wrongs don't make a right.
Interestingly, I noticed most everyone's initial response to the age 'deception' and I was on your girlfriend's side! According to how I read your initial post, she did not flat out lie to you about her age. She let you assume she was younger. I felt that you obviously knew she was older and if it was important to you, you should have flat out asked. But from her modus operanda, I believe from what you have said, she would have simply changed the subject. Again, it is good that you are level headed enough to see how she skirts an issue or doesn't tell you the whole truth.
But again, I must say, your New Year description of her friends -- they give me the creeps! I recently read in the paper that Julio Iglesias' father, who is 90 (!!) just became a daddy again. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should. I think a 90 year old father and these women --- well, I suppose, at least if they are honest and up front about what they are after? It certainly isn't because they are concerned with the best welfare of the other party, whether it be child/young lover. It seems to me to shout "what's in it for me" is all these elders are asking.
There is a phrase: the art of aging gracefully. It truly is an art. something to be studied and developed. Art Linkletter said: old age ain't for sissies. When I was in my 30s, I was editor of a magazine called fifty/something. I have given thanks many times for that experience because through the people I met, it helped me to face my age as I'm getting older. And I still look for inspiring role models. I see strength of character and non-physcial attributes that make them such 'great' people. In Jungian psychology, it's called individuation. bEcoming the unique individual, living to our full potential, the unfolding of the self. That takes an emphasis on the inside, not the erasing of wrinkles.
Do I feel spiritually superior to those who are 'stuck' on external appearances? No, I can honestly say I don't. In fact, I envy their money (i'm not into power, just give me the money!ha!) but then again, I am just now seeing how strongly I've been influenced by the poverty of my youth. So, I'm back to working more on my 'inside'....
OK, i'm to that rattling on point again, so I better stop! I, too, am looking forward to seeing more replies. As has been said, Scandinavia, your 'can of worms' has given us all much to think about!

I have held my tongue (er fingers) as I always seem to ruffle some feathers when things like this come up as I am not as diplomatic as Frenchkissed or some others are. To me this whole this is not only sick but also a sickness, and to be honest, I am not sure if it is all true! When you began, your gf's circle of friends were 58-61; then the age went up to 65 and now New Year's up to 69. And to be honest, the thought of even a 21 year old with a 69 year old gives me the creeps as well, even if the roles were reversed... BUT there would be the rub, as I bet the 69 year old man would look pretty darn close to that age and not trying to be some age he is NOT. That whole thing is again tooooo creepy. I can see why the mood was tense; yet you said they were boyfriends? DO they really know the ages of these women?

From all that you have written, these women seem to be like in a "secret society" where they want to turn back the clock for but for all the wrong reasons...to use for nothing but deceitful carnality. It is a game for them. And they are not just wanting to knock off a few years, but to try to turn back to a ridiculous age. Have you ever read "Dr. Heidigger's Experiment"? This is what the whole senario reminds me of, trying to recapture lost youth, yet making the same mistakes when one should have learned from them. I was at my spa yesterday and ran into the doctor there who is a plastic surgeon, and he told me that around 60 or so we begin to degenerate and NOTHING can stop it. Sure the face can be altered and smoothed, the breasts, butt and thighs lifted, the tummies tucked, the veins zapped and even now fat deposits can be put into hands, but the body is still degenerating in the form of our eyes ( have you looked at hers, I mean the pupils, and then yours? ), feet, the way we walk, our stature, and agility (even due sitting for long periods of time). You keep saying that at first they look 30-40 but after awhile that opinion has to change...there has to be signs that they are not what they profess to be. We cannot cheat our age at 65+ for long periods of time!

And what you have related to us, if it is real, is all a bit surreal and like a fantasy (and you seem to be caught up in it... almost like an accident in which you see its horrors yet cannot look away.) You mentioned that your gf has even said she wanted more surgergy; So that means she does not even want to "age" from the place where she is/looks now??? Shaking head... If I were you, I would run... I mean to what purpose is this relationship?? IS she the woman you want to marry?? Did you ever think of what it would be to live this type of life on a daily basis???

thank you so much for saying what I was trying to say, but doing so poorly. I couldn't get past the damn 'creepy' part!ha!
I don't know of the dr. heigle?? experiment you refer to, but I recall a book I read in the 6th grade (that's how deeply an impression it made on me!) called The Methusalah Enzyme. The charming, sweet young protagonist finds that evil's underfoot to keep these people looking young and alas, by book's end, despite her intentions, she ends up just like them, feeding off others to keep her youthful appearance.
So, yes, there is indeed a growing trend of age-gap related relationships as women are more liberated, independent and the normal life span is increasing, etc., but I don't think this circle of women represents what we see here in ageless at all.

I see where you gals are coming from. My biggest issue with criticising plastic surgery recipitents is that, in truth, I think of it as no different (in terms of intent)to wearing makeup, shaving my arm pits and legs, putting on a nice dress, or getting a fashionable hairstyle.

To me, its all about manipulating one's appearance so that people will treat you well, so you will get your needs met, and so that you can interact with society in a positive way.

I find it hard to criticise someone who changes their appearance via surgery versus makeup because I feel that I would be hypocritical....its just a amtter of using different technology to achieve the same result, ie looking a certain way that society accepts or revears.

Suicideblonde, i have to agree with you that scandinavians story about this circle of 60+ friends who all look 25 and date 20 year olds sounds a bit, well, fanciful? I've never met anyone like that. If the story is true, well it sounds very trippy.

Frenchkissed, you addressed this situation with finesse and I even copied your word "creepy" as I had had a more negative choice at first, but I knew it would begin another war. And besides my story, I also think your example is "spot on" too, esp. how you used the phrase " feeding off others to keep her youthful appearance" for they need those men to "complete" their look.

Now Bella D, I always enjoy what you write and I do agree with you and plastic surgery, and I would be a hyporicrite, too, if I said it was a "bad" thing as I have had it done. BUT, I did it for ME and like you said to "get your [my] needs met" which was to knock off a few years, so my mind and body would match my face, as well as to not look so darn tired all the time. BUT let's look at again what you you wrote about having it done: "so you will get your needs met, and so that you can interact with society in a positive way." Well, this is where I have the problem with these California women. Their "needs" as they seem to have a hidden agenda that entails not only breaking up marriages (did not Scandanavian say many have left their husbands to do this?) but to "prey" on younger men. Now, as the second part, this behavior to me is not exactly "interacting with society in a positive light" at all, esp. on this site for as someone else said , they seem to represent the "cougar' element that we abhor so much. And finally again, to keep wanting to have more plastic surgery as you may see a wrinkle or whatever IS a sickness. One cannot escape getting older, period, and to try to outwit that part of life is absolutely ridiculous.

Regards

Yes, suicideblonde...I can see your points for sure. I don't really relate to the type of people scandanavian is decribing.....secretive & non-committal in relationships, deliberate in seeking out very young men.

One thought that occurred to me is that women from that generation....who were so limited in what they could `have' as a young woman due to the time and era......maybe some are trying to experience something they could never have back then? Or maybe its nothing so deep, and they are just angry and sociopathic or something? I don't have anything against the surgery. Nor the age gap relationships. But I can see why it seems disturbing that, as a group, these people
appear to targeting innocent , very young people. It seems manipulative somehow. And yet unreal too...hence, it makes wonder if theres a bigger picture.

Yes, I agree that my comment about cosmetic surgery enabling people to `interact with society in a positive way' was not vey well expressed.
What I meant was that the surgery enables them to experience positive reactions from society.

regards to you too!

Bella,

On the contrary, I liked your post about cosmetic surgery. I used to be very judgmental about people undergoing cosmetic surgery. But your post showed that it is not much different from wearing makeup. Very well written!

Hey thanks for understanding me, Flanker!

Bella D you DID express yourself perfectly fine in regards to allowing people who do have it to interacting with society in a positve way, and I agreed with you. What I meant is that, ironically, these women are not doing that at all, IMHO, due to their reasons behind it.

And I like your thought/observation, too, about their generation and what they had to face in their younger years, for if I were a few years older, I would have grown up in that same stifled time period as well. However to me, that still does not condone their behavior of today.

Hi!

I am not in the mood for answering your letters right now. Hopefully I will be back within a couple of days. Right now our relationship occupy my thoughts so much that I can not concentrate on work or anything else.
You are and have been a great support to me.

Looking forward to continuing the debate.

Scandinavian

Hi!

I owe you a response.
During the last week I have pondered on your views. Now we have broken up.

Scandinavian

This is worse than a soap opera!ha! You can't leave us hanging like that, Scandinavia!ha!
But then, again, I guess you can/did!ha!
The main thing is of course, if you are happy and feeling at peace with your decision.
I study dreams and I always recall what one of my favorite dream dictionaries said: if you look up a symbol and read our suggested interpretation of that symbol and nothing seems to fit for you, no 'aha' moments, then we have still done our job...by helping you see what the dream symbol doesn't mean for you and thus, through the process of elimination, you are a step closer to discovering the true meaning.
I think the same is true of many of these posts. We reply based on the information given (which in itself is handed to us through a filtered lens of your/the poster's perception) and then we respond -- through our own bias and filtered lens. But the point is: among all the responses, you can pick and choose and see what strikes home to you. Our responses could all be wrong -- and yet right if they give you the clarity to see that.

Hello friends!

When I left you months ago I was beside myself. The conflict between my mother and my girlfriend caused some ultimatums from my girlfriend which I could not handle immediatly. She broke up with me and didn´t answer my calls for about two weeks. One evening she turned up at my place and we ended up talking for hours about the challenges we had met.
She told me that she missed me and wanted me to move in with her. She made the condition that I go to therapy to curb my thoughts. In return she promised to write my mother.
I have been in therapy for about 2 months – every second week.
I moved in with my girlfriend and her 14 year old daughter 3 months ago (an ultimatum from my girlfriend). My girlfriend travels a lot because of her job and I am often left alone for 2-4 days. Before I moved in, my girlfriends eldest daughter who lives in the nighbourhood, looked after her 14 year old sister. Against my will I have gradually taken over her role - a role I am not comfortable with because of the responsibility I now bear. She is 14 years old and she asks me so many complicated and emotional questions which I can´t answer. Acutally she sometimes drives me crazy. She is tall and physically she is well developed for her age. Mentally she is still a child. A girl in a womans body. Like her mother she is hypnotized by her appearance. In my opinion she eats too little but so far I have not been able to convince her. I have had major discussions with her and her mother. They are both in the habit of leaving the bathroom topless because they do not dress in there. I think it is a stupid habit but my girlfriend says I am prissy. My girlfriend had her breast done for the second time in 2004. Her daughter looks up to her mother because of her appearance and she copies her. My girlfriend have praised her daughter for her bosom in my presence several times. I have told her not to because she indirectly encourage her daughter to show her breasts in front of us. Yesterday I told her to put on a bra before leaving the bathroom. She did not put on her bra and demonstratively she made a detour to make sure that I saw her topless. This resulted in an argument with my girlfriend because she doesn´t take action. Why is her daughter doing this. Is she testing me? I do not feel competent to being her stepfather already. I drive her, I cook, I do her (our) washing, I clean the house, do the shopping and I try to help and entertain her the best I can. She defies me - but why? What else can I do to make her respect me?


Scandinavian

Wow . . . your post does concern me a bit. You sound like a very upstanding young guy with a lot of integrity. Your girlfriend should thank God for that because I can't imagine any mother wishing or allowing their 14-year old daughter to run around half naked in front of a boyfriend.

What is your girlfriend thinking??? :eek: Well apparently she is not thinking clearly about how to raise a teenage daughter.

Teenage girls are defiant, rebellious and sassy and most will do anything that reeks of shock value. This is what she is doing to you. I don't hold her nearly as accountable in this situation as I do her mom.

You said the mom (your GF) insisted that you get counselling?? Well, she is the one who needs to get some counselling and perhaps a parenting course woudn't hurt.

I am appalled that any mother would encourage this type of behavior from their daughter.

Honestly I am appalled too. I read your post several hours ago and just couldn't think what to say here. I was so disturbed by it that I discussed it with my husband (who is often completely unwilling to listen to anything that comes after "I just read this post on Agelesslove..."

I really hate to sound like one of those awful "get out and end it" posters, but here goes. I can't see *anything* good coming from this situation. You need to have an upfront conversation with your GF right now about how this makes you uncomfortable. You should not be alone with her daughter when you feel uncomfortable. Period. If changes cannot be made in the home to accomodate you, then you should leave. Counseling is definately in order for Mom.

Ugh. Nudity at home with a 14 year old is NOTHING like nudity at home with 7 year old. I feel for you.

You said the mom (your GF) insisted that you get counselling?? Well, she is the one who needs to get some counselling and perhaps a parenting course woudn't hurt.

I am appalled that any mother would encourage this type of behavior from their daughter.

Is it just me who found Scandinavian's post funny??

LOL I was just cracking up! A house full of loons is what he's got! Mom and her brood.


Hehehe! :D

I am going to say
"GET OUT BEFORE YOU GET ACCUSED OF SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE NOT DONE!!"

THis woman is NOT WORTH the trouble you could be in......You can and will do much better.......as for therapy, you have never given me a reason to think you need therapy.....The mom and her daughter need therapy....


GET OUT!!!

I have to stand up for my girlfriend now. Some of you get the wrong impression of her.
She feels guilty about being so much away from home and she tries to compensate for this by pleasing her daughter. My girlfriend avoids conflicts with her daughter because she is so quick tempered. Sometimes I suspect her daughter of trying to spoil my relationship to her mother.
My girlfriend has tried to set a good example to her daughter during the last couple of weeks by getting dressed before leaving the bathroom but it has the opposite effect. Her daughter is a rebel and she behaves improperly. Her mother and she have been living on their own for years – only having each other to consider on daily basis.
My girlfriend DOES NOT encourage her daughter to show her breasts……NOT AT ALL…NEVER!!!
She has praised her daughter for her bosom and her appearance. I have overheard that several times. Giving compliments to her daughter is fine with me but here it is counterproductive because her daughter is so hypnotized by her appearance and her self confidence is so high.
I will not allow her daughter to spoil my relationship with her mother. Leaving is not an option. I owe my girlfriend a great deal of money, my personal belongings are few after the move and I have no where else to go. Despite our age gap is 32 years I want this relationship to work but right now I need your help.

Scandinavian

Leaving is not an option because of money? Don't you have parents?

{She feels guilty about being so much away from home and she tries to compensate for this by pleasing her daughter. My girlfriend avoids conflicts with her daughter because she is so quick tempered. Sometimes I suspect her daughter of trying to spoil my relationship to her mother.}

She made and is still making a big mistake here. The daughter is the way she is because mom is assuaging her guilt. And yes daughter is going to try to break you up, as you are taking away from her

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{My girlfriend has tried to set a good example to her daughter during the last couple of weeks by getting dressed before leaving the bathroom but it has the opposite effect. Her daughter is a rebel and she behaves improperly. Her mother and she have been living on their own for years – only having each other to consider on daily basis.
My girlfriend DOES NOT encourage her daughter to show her breasts……NOT AT ALL….}

I would never have walked around naked in front of my daughter! That is not a good example and trying to cover up now is totally senseless. Mom encouraged this nudity and it is too late to try to change the pattern that has been set. SO YES she does encourage the daughter to show off!
************************************************** **************


{I will not allow her daughter to spoil my relationship with her mother. }

you cannot disallow that either....mom will have to make a choice and I bet you will be on the losing end.
************************************************** *****
{Leaving is not an option. I owe my girlfriend a great deal of money, my personal belongings are few after the move and I have no where else to go.}

Well she now has you over a barrel. If you have to rent a room in someones house I would suggest you do so....I don't know about the laws of sexual abuse in Norway, but here if the daughter sees that she cannot break you and mom up she could accuse you of sexual molestation and you would be in jail andyour whole life ruined. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN!!!
************************************************** **************

{Despite our age gap is 32 years I want this relationship to work but right now I need your help.}

If this releationship is to be, then it will survive you living outside of that home....

************************************************** ***************

and from your first posting:

{I moved in with my girlfriend and her 14 year old daughter 3 months ago (an ultimatum from my girlfriend). My girlfriend travels a lot because of her job and I am often left alone for 2-4 days. Before I moved in, my girlfriends eldest daughter who lives in the nighbourhood, looked after her 14 year old sister. Against my will I have gradually taken over her role - a role I am not comfortable with because of the responsibility I bear.}

This woman is a user .....why would you give in to an ultimatum like that?? If she truly loved you, there would have been an exchange of ideas and then to have you "babysit" the 14 year old?? dude you are being used big time and I fear that you may be "abused" sometime in the near future.....
************************************************** ***************

I know this sounds cruel, but for crying out loud, she is not your mother and has NO business giving you an ultimatum.....find a room to rent someplace and give HER the ultimatum- straighten up the daughter or find another babysitter!

This was a great post, Teddi . . . and I also thought about the factor that he is setting himself up to be accused of any number of things by the daughter (just hadn't gotten here to post it yet).

Don't ever say there are not options . . . I believe there are ALWAYS options . . . anytime I hear someone say "I am stuck here" . . . I cringe . . . because there are always options . . . if a person does not see them, then they are not looking too hard for solutions . . . you need to sit down along with your GF and discuss all the factions to this relationship that are clearly wrong. If she cares about you, she will make an effort to correct some of those problems. If she does not see what you are talking about, then she doesn't care.

One solution I see right now is that maybe the daughter/sitter situation should continue the way it was before you moved into the house . . . let the daughter continue to stay with the aunt when the GF is out of town. That would eliminate the factor of you being alone with the daughter in the house. I definitely think I would start with that idea in mind.

You paint a cruel scenario. I have never considered the situation to be that serious but I can follow your argumentation. What you are saying is that I should take precautions against her daughter because she is unpredictable and by every means will try to drive me out. I don´t have the impression that she hates me and wants to drive me out, so in a way it is meeting trouble halfway.
You have put my situation in another perspective - a perspective I have never given a thought. An important argument which my girlfriend cannot ignore if she really loves me. A litmus test.
I appreciate your comments, thank you very much. This site is worth its weight in gold.

Scandinavian.

litmus test - A test that uses a single indicator to prompt a decision, a test that relies on a single indicator.

What will be that single indicator (possible accusations of child abuse/molestation/rape) to prompt what (daughter is not left alone with you when your OW leaves town) decision?

I do not think it is a simple as a litmus test....

In my eyes you are being used, manipulated and much more.... You are a servant in the house, you now even owe her a large amount of money, not an easy exit, is there?

You are digging yourself deeper in a realtionship that had red flads from the very beggining.

If money is the issue, get out and work a payment plan to repay her every penny and stick by it.

Good luck to you but in the name of "love" you sure are being mistreated!

By the way it sounds like a multiple choice test with an all of the above answer!

Some of your comments are very dramatic. Actually you gave me a wakeful night. I don´t blame you….you are just honest with me and I appreciate.

Nothing hurts like the truth. By saying or concluding that I am being used you have touched me on the raw because sometimes I do feel used.
My girlfriend is not a bad person. She is just too busy with her job and I do think she is suffering from stress.
Since my contract ran out and moved in with her I feel isolated and heavily dependent on her. I am waiting for a new contract but it is dragging on. My girlfriend has been paying for everything for months now. Very unsatisfactory and humiliating to me. Of course my rights and my basis for negotiations are weakened. She expects something in return - housekeeping.
One good turn deserves another but doing the washings, making the beds, cleaning the house, shopping and preparing meals for both of them, picking up shorts, skirts, nylons, towels, shoes, doing gardening and driving is actually full-time employment and not what I have been dreaming about. Sometimes I do feel like a subject and a servant when I have to clean up or pick up things after them and if they call for me and want me to find or iron a shirt or something. Her daughter leaves everything in a mess.
I have been seeing a couple therapist 5 times. She wants my girlfriend to take part in the therapi but my girlfriend don´t want to. Her conclusion is that I am too fascinated by my girlfriend because of her youthful appearance, commercial position/career, her money and her lifestyle. I have denied….but she is right. I am aware that I am obsessed with her and I am aware that my girlfriend knows. I have ignored my own needs to please her and keep her interest in me. My girlfriend is very body conscious and she is attracted to fit and muscular men. A 65 year old friend of her´s is now dating a 21 year old man who is very muscular. I remember the day we were introduced. He made me feel thin, weak, vulnerable and jealous because my girlfriend praised him for his upper body and because more of her 60+ friends now prefer and have ended up dating men about 20 years old. They might be more compliant than men my age – I don´t know. Am I over the hill at 28, 29, 30? - I worry about it and therefore I try to please her. I have never done a lot of sport, but I saw her eyes that day and I therefore comply with her wish and now visit the local gym when possible. I give in to her because I am attracted to her and because I am in her pocket. If she gives me the boot I am in a difficult position.
My girlfriend is an intellectual woman and I don´t think her real intention is to use me. Though she is materialistic and some of her values are very superficial (look/appearance) she is still emotional involved in our relationship when she is not stressed. We do have quality time (not enough) and when we have I do feel lucky.
I am not in the habit of crying but sometimes I do before sleeping. When her daughter drives me mad, when I have too much do in this house, when I think of my job situation and what I might give up because of this relationship I wish my girlfriend was in touch with my feelings. When she comes home from work she is often tired and irritable and I have to watch my steps and be strong. When she has been away for 2-3 days the pattern is the same when she comes home. I prepare supper, we eat, I clean up, she spends af few intensive hours with her daughter, she has a bath and is ready for bed. I like a chat in the bed I see it as a chance to talk over our respective thoughts. When here comments are; ”I am too tired”….”you think too much”…”don´t worry” ..."I love you"...and she sets the scene for sex instead I feel used and hurt. In that case I sometimes shed tears in the dark during the sexual act because my needs are neglected.

When I get my new contract, start making my own money and get out of the grind I hope we become more equal. In a couple of months my girlfriend will turn 60 and I hope she realizes that too much travelling is bad for our relationship and her family. She is able to retire and perfectly she choose to stay home with her daughter…...

You might think that I am naive but I really love this woman. That is why I ask you for help. As said before, nothing hurts like the truth but I really appreciate your comments and would like to discuss my situation more intensively if some of you feel for it.

Have a nice day.

Scandinavian

Quote { have been seeing a couple therapist 5 times. She wants my girlfriend to take part in the therapi but my girlfriend don´t want to. Her conclusion is that I am too fascinated by my girlfriend because of her youthful appearance, commercial position/career, her money and her lifestyle. I have denied….but she is right. I am aware that I am obsessed with her and I am aware that my girlfriend knows. I have ignored my own needs to please her and keep her interest in me. My girlfriend is very body conscious }


How long do you think you can keep this up?? Denying yourself and giving ALL to her??? IF the g/f won't get involve in the therapy that is a RED FLAG!!! And what was it that made her think YOU needed the therapy and she didn't??

If this girl accused you of molestation or rape, it's highly likely your defense would be weak. If she is a manipulator... and of course she is... she will do what she needs to do to get what she wants. She is not stupid. She has already shown you that she has no scruples about your feelings. If you get convicted of child molestation, a likely outcome of such a charge, you will be jailed and or imprisoned, and when you are out you will have to register as a sex offender every month for the rest of your life. Your name, address and photo will be on the internet in the sex offenders website. Check it out for California. It will be difficult to get a job or find a rental, because employers and landlords check that site. You will not be allowed to be around children under eighteen unsupervised, which makes it difficult to be in waiting rooms, etc where children might be present. You would have to schedule your appointments so that there would be no children there at the same time as you.... etc, etc
You are depressed (crying every night, feel hopeless)... This isn't about whether or not you love your girlfriend, it's about putting your life in danger. She sounds clueless about these realities. Get out of her place today.
SN

Are you people seriously buying this story???

This reads like a penthouse forum letter meets student writing a paper, meets, yellow journalist needs easy access to OW/YM opinions for a sordid piece.

This is a long term member of AL... I doubt he's making it up.

I guess Scandinavian is the only one that knows if his story is true or if he is just feeding us a bunch of bull... But then I believe in karma, so if he is making it all up, it will come back to bite him in the derriere! ;)

And life keeps going...

I owe my girlfriend a great deal of money, my personal belongings are few after the move and I have no where else to go.

Too bad she gave you money and too bad you accepted it....this is one HUGE no-no, especially in AGR's, for the older partner to help out the younger partner significantly financially....it often breeds dependence and resentment later on.

I agree with the posters that say you should do whatever it takes to move out on your own, get out of the situation, pay your gf back slowly and consistently, and deal with defining your relationship from afar rather than in her home with her and her daughter.

Bella wrote:

<snip>
So, you find a woman you truly like, you like to be with, and who truly likes you. The only problem is you have a big age gap. Lots to think about, and it truly isn't for everyone. There is no dishonor if you think it through and decide you maybe just can't handle it.

Children are the big issue. The one she already has, and the ones you won't have if you are with her long term. How important is that to you? Can you take being a step father to someone of that age?

Yeah, statistically, you'll lose her while you're still young, and the poems about grow old along with me, just don't hold true with an age gap like this one. Are you the type of person who can take what life offers and be grateful for the now? Can you look at her, and think you'll love the person, not the body? And mean it?

The only thing that really bothers me about your post is two sentences, "I am proud to hold her hand in public because she does look a lot younger. Still I do have scruples about being intimate with a woman close to 60 years old." If you aren't proud to hold her hand in public, just because she's her, and not because she looks younger, it isn't going to work. She's not always going to look younger. And why the heck would you have scruples about being intimate with a woman close to 60 years old. It isn't like she's a nun or something. Scruples mean that there's something immoral or something. She's a woman, she's legal, it's not immoral, if you love her.

We're 50 and 22, I do look older than him, obviously, and he is NEVER embarassed about displaying affection for me in public, and if he was, we wouldn't last.
</snip>
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I agree 100%. Well Said!