Long, long rambling and venting....sorry.

I'm so confused, Where do I start?....
Sometimes, I am sooo happy with Joe. (My OM, me:22 him: 40) And other times, I seem to be miserable...sometimes, (all of the time really) I absolutely LOVE his children as if they were my own. I mean, I do EVERYTHING for them. Their mom works a lot..so I am always the one (on the days he works late) to go straight from work and pick them up from school..bring them home, feed them, bathe them, make sure all of Frank's homework is done..put the to bed.
I don't know..it's just soemtimes I am sooo happy with my life, and feel so rewarded and that I'm actually doing something with my lfe and making a d difference..ad sometimes I am sooo happy and in love with my fiance, that it hurts. Other times though, I just feel misarable. I feel like I am the water in the "just add water" family. Unfortunatley with me, I need a lot of attention, and affection..thats just the kind of person that I am..and I am MORE than willing to reciprocate...and even though my Fiance is very affectioniate and loving.I just feel like it's not enough. We always have the kids..and when the kids are around..all of the focus is on them. Understandable, they should ALWAYS come first. But if they are always coming first, that mean I always come last. Ans sometimes I feel like I can deal with that and thats its all worth it..and other times..I think to myself "can I really deal with not being 1st in someones life, for the rest of my life?"
I'm sure I sound selfish..but my whole life now is working all day, and then going home (or to school) and runnung around and doing things for everyone else. I understand that this is what being a parent is all about..being completely selfless..but sometimes I just feel so unappreciated.
And sometimes I do worry about the age thing...sometimes Joe and I are perfect together...other times its different.
Last night was our ONLY night that we wernt going to have the kids for the next 3 weeks (and weve had them for 2 weeks straight already) and he fell asleep at 9:30 (he didn't get home from work until 8:30) and slept upstairs on the sofa all night..I mean, I understand that he was tired and he had a headache. But I NEVER get him all to myself! Oh, and then he wakes up this morning, and goes and has breakfast with his ex-wife and kids..(I had to go to work) I can't even tell you how bad that earks me. He slept upstairs the night before that too. He likes to sleep by himself, he sleeps better. I LOVE to sleep with him, and cuddle and wake up next to him in the morning...He just isn't that affactionate anymore (and it's only been 15 months!) And I talk to him about it, and he says he sorry, that life and stress jus gets to him..and then hes better for like 2 days..and then he's back to being grumpy.
And I absolutely HATE it when he wakes up in the mornigs all pissed of and grumpy..won't even say good morning to me, because he barely got any sleep.but then goes and wakes the kids up all sweet and making them laugh! Yes, I'm jealous of a 4 and 8 year old. I just feel SO alone! All I do is work, school, take care of the house and the kids...I have no friends around me. I tried to take up violin, but had to drop it because I couldnt find the time to practice..
Just sometimes, I am so happy wiht my life. And other times..I think "this is going to be the rest of my life, can I do this?" and my honest answer is I don't know. And the other thing is that I absolutely want kids of my own. Iv always wanted 2 or more. When I first met him and we started to get serious, he was all about having more kids and having a "real" "Normal" family..and now, and then he said later on that, maybe we could agree on one. So fine, he already had two..so we agreed on one. Now he's so cold with the subject, doesnt want to talk about it. He looks at it like it's going to be more of a burden tah anything..money wise, and he doesnt know if he could hadle the stress of another kid. We talked about it again recently, but I know that he would only be doing it for me..and I fear that he's going to hate me for the rest of our lives..I dunno. Iv even thought about could I just not have children since it's all reday like I have 2 now anyways..but no. No I couldnt, I want my own. Thats the only thing I KNOW for sure what I want to do with my life.....ug.
Sometimes, I want to be selfish but I can't. Because then I'm the *****.
\I don't know..I just know that I'm not happy right now..sitting at my desk at work, with all of these thoughts in my head..but then when I get home tongiht, after school..if he stays up with me, and we hang out after the kids go to bed..then I'm happy again. I have these extrem mood swings with this situation..I jst don't now what to do..I'm so sorry for ranting...I juts had to get some things out. I'm sure this whole thing doesn't even make any sense. I'm also sorry for all of the spelling errors, I think my fingers started smoking when I was writing this..haha

Wow, if you're feeling like this at 15 months, unless something is done, I'm afraid it's only going to get worse.

DO NOT get married until you have resolved the baby issue!

And it sounds like he has a free maid more than a lover.

Jeremy and I have 14, 12 and 4 year olds between us, a lot of stress and financial difficulties right now, but we ALWAYS make time for each other. What some parents seem to forget is that happy parents make happy children. False smiles and covered up stress are always detected by kids and they tend to blame themselves. So ignoring your spouse/SO in order to put up a front for the kids will inevitably backfire.

And kids move on, move out and find their own partners in life. Who wants to be left in an empty nest with someone they don't even know or appreciate anymore because "the kids come first."

There is a line to the kids coming first all of the time. A lot of people don't see it that way, but 50% of marriages breaking up comes from issues with sex, kids and money. In my view, it's starting to take the spouse for granted during the childrearing. It doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to spend every minute with your kids. Get out and away sometimes. It will be good for you AND your kids.

I think your fiance needs to think about that.

Ditto on everything Kristin said... and you should tell him flat out, you're going out once a week... with or without him. Either he can make plans for a date night, or you go out with girlfriends (that you've probably neglected since you moved in with your OM)... :D

Then go have a violin lesson, or dance lessons, or go dancing or whatever. You NEED to have a life.

I have two kids. Litical lives with me and is a part of raising them, but I make sure we go out at least once every two weeks alone. But, we usually get every other weekend together with the kids going to their Dad's.

And I'm sorry, but I'm really, really good friends with my first husband, but I would NEVER go over to his house for "breakfast." Most assuredly not without Litical. That was really disrespectful and I'd be infuriated, myself.

Yes, its important to put the "kids first," to an extent. If you don't put your OWN needs on some level of importance, all the "kids" get is an empty shell of a person.

Do not be a doormat. Do not allow the precedent to set the tone of the future of your relationship. ;) Good luck.
~phos

I agree, with the others. I think your BF is putting way too much responsibility on you as well. You shouldn't have to be an instant mom - I can't imagine doing that and working as well, at the age of 22. It's just too much! I think you need to sit him down for a talk and let him see the situation from your perspective. It might be that he's so busy dealing with day to day life that he's not seeing what is really important in the long run. Good luck!

I read my post and all of your replys to my fiance today.
Iv gone over all of this stuff before with him, and he apologized before and said that he's sorry that he lets stress get to him. He was better for about a week..and then back to the same grumpy Joe.
After I read this to him today..he tells me, "maybe this is just who I am, and I can't give you everything you want or need".
Now keep in mind, I'm not asking for much. Just to be reminded that he DOES love me and appreciate me sometimes...I dunno. Maybe I do expect to much. Maybe I do need waaay to much attention / affection. And unfortuantely I'm in the wrong situation for that. Maybe I need to know when to pick my battles...

Thank you all for the comments / advice.
I don't know if I'll ever be happy. I think I do this to myself. Always questioning, and wanting to much of things...like I said, I have such extreme mood swings / thoughts about this relationship. One minute I can't think of anyone else I would want to spend the rest of my life with (or the rest of his life I should say...Juuuust kidding) and the next minute I'm miserable. If I don't get a kiss or affection from him in the mornings..it seems to ruin my whole morning. I think it's just that I try soo hard to do everything I can to make him feel loved, special and appreciated..and sometimes I just want the same in return. He does try...but most of the time, he's too tired, or stressed, or to busy with the kids to even show me any signs of affection. I dunno...like I said..I think I'm doing this all to myself.

Holly, read the "How do I know he's the one" thread and re-evaluate your situation.

He's not the one, darlin', and he just told you so.

I'm the same as you - need lots of affection & attention - and you can't expect him to change. I was miserable with guys like that, but I thought it was the best I could do or that I was already too comitted & being silly.

I was wrong. And now I have a man who is on the same page as I am and I never lack what I need.

I know its exciting to be engaged. I know it's flattering that someone says he loves you. I know it's scary to think about being alone and starting over.

But you need to really think hard about why you are marrying this man. Is it because he fills all your needs & wants in a relationship? Or are you really in love with the IDEA of being in love & getting married?

Please don't make that same mistake I did!

I know Kristin..your right.
It's just....thats why I fell in love with him, (besides other reasons)..he was the most loving and affectionate man Iv ever met. He was all about me...I could go on for hours about all of the nice, sweet things he would do for me..say about me...how he would treat me, how he would make me feel..about me. And then it all just...changed. I had to ask him to kiss me last night, to comfort me. Iv never had to do that before...

I went to bed crying last night (he knew) and woke up crying this morning, and he didn't even care. He didn't even try to comfort me or anything...when I ask him if he's trying to push me away, he says no..ofcoarse. I dunno, it's just really recent that things went kinda sour between us..so I don't know if this is just a faze or 1 year itch type of thing...or if this is how it's really going to be from here on out...
I love him, I really do..and it would kill me to lose him...but at the same time, it's killing me to feel like this all of the time. I'm so depressed right now...

I feel bad about complaining that I don't get enough attention, or affection from my OM, when there are people on here who are going through much more difficult things..
I just really needed to get this all out. I feel so alone sometimes, when I can't talk to him..and I really don't have any friends.
Thank you for reading / listening to my babble. whatever happens, I know I have to change something soon. :o

Holly, don't feel bad for venting here!! I'm glad you feel you can come here and get it out and talk about it. I know how it feels when you can't talk to anyone about what's going on.

From what I can tell, it seems that maybe he's the type of guy that does the elaborate romance-thing to get the girl and then once he "has" her, poof it's gone.

Have you talked to him about each of your ideas on romance, love, and your expectations of these? What does he think? Do you think this is a temporary phase that he's stuck in?

I wish I had more advice for you, but I'm sure others here will. Hang in there. ;)

Cabinfever has the right idea - see the "Never stop courting" thread. Guys court with romance. If they stop, it probably will never come back. His cold reaction to your crying is a big red flag for me.

There is nothing wrong with needing affection. It's just who you are. If you need that and don't get it, you will start to really resent him. Then you will start looking for it elsewhere. I've seen it here and IRL many times. Do you want to make a clean break now or end up in a messy divorce later.

Listen carefully - YOU CANNOT CHANGE HIM. PEOPLE DO NOT CHANGE. Especially a guy his age. It will NOT go back to the way it was and he has made it clear that he has no intention of trying. You need to think hard about what it is that you need to make you happy.

However, everyone deserves a chance. Maybe all he needs is a swift kick in the butt by way of you telling him you are done with him. (Only if you truly would be if he doesn't start making an effort - I'm not telling you to play mind games.) If it doesn't happen or only does for a little while, you need to move on.

Remember - he is NOT the man you became engaged to - why do you want to marry this "other" person?

I'm not one to normally jump onto the "dump him" wagon, but your situation rings so familiar to me and I really feel like I've been there and want to save you the same agony.

But since I can't possibly know the WHOLE story from both sides, one last thought - is there anything that you have let change about yourself? Is he still with the person he became engaged to? If not, maybe going back to being the person you were during courting could help bring him back around.

Otherwise, expect it to be this way for the rest of your relationship, because he won't change now.



((hugs))

Just as a back story, affection and romance are HUGE for me. It took me a while to realize how much I needed it. Other women want more space, but that is just not who I am.

With every guy it went away after the courting was over. Finally, with Jeremy (my guy of 15 months) I told him before we got serious how I was. I said what I needed and that I would basically leave if it ever changed. (I was kind of a ***** about it, actually) He told me that he was the same way - that it drove him crazy that his (ex) girlfriends would become distant and stop the affection after a while. So we have worked to keep it going - if one of us starts to get that way, the other one won't have it! We decided that we would never stop "courting" each other and 15 months later, we are still as huggy and kissy and sickly sweet as newbie lovers. We say "I love you" and "I miss you" and kiss and hug fifty times a day. And neither of us feels "smothered" one bit because we are BOTH that way and don't want it any other way.

Now, you may not need all that silliness, but you do have your own level - everyone does. And you need to find the guy who is on the same wavelength as you are. And it all depends on how important to you it is and what sacrifices you may make in order to be with someone you love who is not on that same wavelength.

OK, sorry for ranting, but I feel for you, sister. :o

Thank you all for listening to my rambling...

I just think that sometimes, he lets stress get to him waaaay to much.
I talked to him about everything again, this morning, when he was on his way to work. And I told him that I'm going through a " depression thing" right now..and I just need more reassurance that I'm loved and appreciated, since he is all Iv really got. I told him how I felt about him not even caring that I was crying this morning...and he says that he's sorry, that he had to get the kids ready for school..and that we laid in bed for over an hour this morning together. (mind you, we weren't "cuddling' or anything...it was both of us, turned over the other way, hitting snooze every 9 minutes on our alarms)
After I told him everything though, about how I'm feeling and I just need a little more from him right now...he just said ..okay. So, I'm not really sure what that means..because I told him all of this yesterday on the phone..and when he got home..I had to tell him to kiss me and to hold me (and he said lets go to bed..to go to sleep)...he just never had a problem showing affection before...He used to be the most affectionate guy I ever met.

Anyways, after I talked to him about it again this morning, and told him how depressed I was....he started going into our financial situation. We aren't doing to good right now..and we both don't know how we got this bad..he makes great money (owns his own deli) and I make okay money. We have this huge house and suddenly we are both in the hole. Unfortuantely I havent been able to give him as much money as I should be lately..due to all of my bills..which he understands but...
You see..his ex-wife never worked and always spent more money than they had. And finances really get to him. I think he's afraid I might be the same way. Which I don't go out and spend extreme amounts of money..but at the same time..this whole having a really good job and making decent money is new to me..and I'm still getting used to budgeting. He understands that..but at the same time..he's not to happy about our financial situation right now. And the fact that he brought thst up this morning afer I told him everything, lets me know thats hes pissed at me...or unsure about our future. He brought up the kid situation again..he says that, if two people can't support 4 people right now..how is he supposed to be able to support 5? (because I want to stay at home). Im think he's actually really unsure about everything right now.
Which is totally understandable, because he did have a "nightmare" marriage...and she did spend more than he earned. I think he's just scared that he's getting into the same situation. I am not ANYTHING like her at all..(and I hate when he compares me to her) and he knows that..but after going through what he went through with her...he has every right to be cautious.
I suppose this is why he's being distant with me..I just hate it. I rips me up inside.....I just hope it's not going to be like this forever. Because I could not be in a marriage like this, and I don't feel I need to pay for his ex-wife's mistakes.
But maybe if I show him that I AM more responsible with money..maybe my old Joe will come back?? I don't know..but if it continues like this..I am going to have to leave. Because intamacy is VERY important to me.

I know he doesn't want kids...I just wish he would be honest about it with himself, and me.

So...I have this really good friend at work. He's 26 and into the same music as me..we are actually a lot alike. We clicked right away. Although I could never see him as a boyfriend type. Anyways, he's been looking for a roomate to lower his bill and whatnot... so yesterday we just started talking, and we first started joking that we should be roomates. Well the more we talked about it, the more excited we became...and he started going to sites looking for apartments, calling places...he even called me late last night to talk about where we would put our furniture. haha
So..I don't know if I said this before..but Joe has seemed miserable ever since I moved in. Thats when I noticed all of this change. He would say that it was the painting the house..moving my stuff in..our engagment party that stressed him out..but I know deep down that he has just been different towards me ever since I moved in...
So I talked to Joe about it last night..me getting my own place with my friend Patrick. And he actually was all for it. He said that he'd think it be good for me to have my own space for awhile..and it would kick my butt into getting my finances situated. Because he's scared that I'm bad with money...
He also said that I really have to think about this though, and see if I could really do it. He said it's up to me. I told him that I would basically be doing it for him, and that I wouldn't want to break up. He said ofcoarse we wouldn't break up. I think he wants me to do this...which kind of saddens me, but at the same time..like I said, I'm actually really excited about it...what do you guys think? Do you think that this would make us even more distant..or do you think it would be good for us to each have our own space..but still plan on being married. Have any of you been in the same situation before?

Go get your own place. The rest will figure itself out.

I have a suspicion that you will realize that although Joe is a really nice guy, he just isn't the one for you. Many of us have been there. I think Joe realizes that he's not really ready for a commitment on top of his other responsibilities. He just goes from one day to the next because it works for him.

It's your life, get it under control. You are in way over your head in many ways.

Good luck.

HollyEtt,
I've been reading your thread with much sympathy, but didn't have anything useful to add until now. I've never been in your situation exactly, but when I was 19 I moved in with a slightly OM (7yrs) and we got engaged. Even though he said he wanted me to move in, he was never happy with it and never very nice or respectful towards me during the 2 years we lived together. He suggested that I move out a few times, but I was so imature at the time, I viewed it as him "kicking me out" and not "loving" me enough. That was stupid. And if I had been a "big girl" I would have been happy to move out! And maybe it would have given our relationship a chance to grow and possibly continue. I've always wished I had been stronger back then.

Anyway, it sounds like your OM has been sending you some very clear messages. I think it's very positive that he is clear on not wanting to break up. However, it sounds like you BOTH need some space. Clearly, he is still sorting everything out in his own life and relationships with his children and X post divorce. He must have realized once you moved in that it was too early for such a big step, but maybe couldn't tell you.

Meanwhile, if you move out but keep dating him, you can get more of what you want out of the relationship. You will no longer be in the role of new adopted mommy and general house servant. I think he will respect you a lot more if you move out and more importantly, YOU will respect yourself again!

So my advice for what it's worth is to go for it! Good luck!

Leety

I also don't know if relationships can move backward successfully: I'm sure it happens, but probably not all that often. I think Bubblebee has some great advice.

I think it's great that you are looking at getting your own place and are excited about it. Have you not lived on your own before? If not, then I REALLY think it's a great idea. I have to admit that I think we all should live on our own before moving in with someone.

Thanks all for the advice. It's nice to get some different perspectives.

To answer your question Cabin Fever: I have never live "by myself" I shared apartments then a house with my sister for the past 3 years, before I moved in with Joe. Thats the thing though I'm questioning..even if I move in with Patrick...It still won't be "my own place". I really couldn't afford to have my own place right now unfortunately. I'm really confused about this whole thing.
Joe and I talked about it for a long time last night. And I asked him honestly, even if I move out..does he still want to marry me, and he looked into my eyes, and said yes. I think he's mostley in favor of my moving in w/ Pat..because he thinkhs it's something I need to do in life, to have my own space etc..but mostely because he thinks that it will be good for me to financially be on my own..with him, if I don't have the money to pay him or help him out..I just wait until I do or can. with me having my own place, I will be forced to be finacially responsibel. Thats his biggest issue...so he told me to eaither go ahead and get a place w/Pat...OR if I stay, I would HAVE to give him a check every week. No if's ands or buts. So I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do. I do believe it's going backwards if I move out. Joe said he would completely support me eaither way...ug. I hate making HUGE decisions like this.

If we do this it's going to be in January sometime...so I still have time to think about it. ..

Well..Me and my friend Patrick went out after work yesterday to look at some apartments. We found one thats really close to our work, and we really REALLY like it. We would have to come up with a lot of money..and move right after Christmas.
This is all happening so fast. EVERYTHING has happened so fast. I'm excited about this on one hand..on the other..I'm really sad and scared. I love Joe! I really do....and I just don't understand why I would be moving out, and us still plan on getting married? I just feel like, if we can't stick with it and work things out now, it doesn't make sense to move out for a year, then move back in..and start everything over again. The kids are finally at the point where they have excepted me living there 100%.
We talked about it last night again..and I told him that it felt weird that he is engouraging me to move in with another guy. I told him to just be completely honest with me...does he still want to be with me? He said yes..ofcoarse he does. He said that it just seemed like I was excited about it, and he wants me to be happy..that he would support me eaither way. I told him that any other guy Ive ever dated...would KILL me if I said I was going to move in with another guy. Granted he's mature and confident in knowing that I would NEVER cheat on him. He just said, again, that I have a pretty good idea where he's going to be in his life 5 years from now..he said that unfortuantely with me..since Iv really just began to have a career etc..that he's nervous because he sees me starting bad spending habits. Again, I could understand him being cautious....his ex was HORRIBLE with money. And being on top of his finances and supporting his kids..is very important to him...

I'm just scared that I'll move out..and miss him sooo much. I like living with him.
and I'm sacred that this will ultimately "make or break" us.

I know that finances are a REALLY< REALLY big deal in marriages, but this guy seems to have a pheobia that he is taking out on you. A lot of people have money problems and if they don't now they might in the future. THe fact that he is letting that fear get in the way of your happiness with him really sucks! I know that this fear totally ruined my parents relationship and it wasn't my mom's spending habits it was my father's inability to deal with the stress of dealing with finances. He complained so much and let it take over every aspect of his life until she finally left him, not because he couldn't provide but because his entire character became about how upset he was with his financial situation (which mind you isn't at all that bad). So you see you might want to think about if you want to be with someone who hasn't developed the skills to put aside his worries and be in the moment. Worry can consume you and eat your life away.......

I dunno...it's hard to tell exactly what Joe is feeling because he really doesn't seem to be expressing it - at least that's how it comes across to me.

And, in my opinion, yes I think living with your sister "counts" as living on your own. You didn't have your parents looking after you (I'm assuming your sister treated you like an adult).

So, a couple things come to mind (bear with me I'm thinking out loud here): Joe is projecting his fears on to you without reason. This is unfair, and he should be acknowledging that - if he's automatically associating your age with financial irresponsibility then maybe he's not cut out for an agegap relationship.

Also, in your shoes, I'd feel like he didn't really love me and was just going along with whatever. I think this works for some people, who can have a "whatever" attitude about relationships, but I need someone to be committed to me and want to work on building intimacy and a life together. Maybe though, once you move out, he'll realize what he's missing (though this is not a good reason for you to move out!).

I think I'd slow down on marriage plans and put some more emphasis on your own life - and just see what happens.

I feel for his kids though; this will be confusing for them. Just make sure they know you still care about them, and that this move has nothing to do with them.

Hi Holly,

I don`t want to get too personal here but what was the cause of his marriage failing?
Were you on the scene before or after the break up, and (presuming it was after) how long afterwards did your relationship start.???
I think you need to examine whether or not he is in it for the right reasons or are you there for him to be able to show the world ( and his ex ) that he doesn`t need her in his life. In other words, are you a rebound for him.
If he was the one who was left behind then he will have issues regarding self worth. He will also have many doubts about future commitment. Has he , unwittingly, put your relationship on the back burner?

From other (failed) relationships that I have witnessed, I would suggest that he is not capable, at the moment, of being in any relationship until he has sorted his head out.