break up again

Heeelp someone, please!
Being with someone for 4 years, means u know him better than u should..Unless u r stuck with a psyco-two-faced maniac! My crazy om broke up with me (again), and then called to say he wants me, we won't break up, he loves me..blah blah blah. He can't decide if he wants me in his life? And he's supposed to be the mature one :o
Serously now, I'm his x-student, his friend, his lover, his secretary (without salary of course!), my wildest dream is to be also the mother of his child, I don't want marriage or anything, and I don't mind his seing other women, i obey his every command, and he plays with my feelings like crazy. I'm really addicted to him and i d do anything for him.
In a few days, in Halloween actually,we happen to have a 4-year anniversary. For some reason this freaked him out. He says we r together for too long, it's enough, that I should find a boy of my own age, that he won't commit, he has no time for love in his messed up life etc. Do u think he says these cause he needs reasurance? I made it clear that I don't want commitment, that I don't mind if he cheats, abuses or neglects me, that i don't want to be 'normal' for society. All I want is to be with him. Under whatever terms he desires.
When we go out i pay for what I spend, so he has realised i have no 'interest' to be with him, and keeps telling me to get away, that i m stuck cause he s my first. Not because he deserves love. His first wife was the only one he stayed a long time with. Other girlfriends lasted for a few months and he's convinced we all women r maneaters! His x-es have hurt him a lot. But he's too much of a macho man to feel intimidated by a 24-year-old who worships him like a god.
I'm very confused. Sometimes he treats me bad and tells me to leave him. I do. I leave him alone but then he calls back and says he misses me and I'm all he has. What's going on? Does this mean he considers me 'better than loneliness' or he feels pity for hurting me with a break up? On the other hand, he's a weird person who has no friends, hates crowds and likes isolation. And hurting me isn't a problem, he's doing it all the time and I'm starting to like his sadistic nature!
Can anyone understand? He's sending many different vibes. When he doesn't go crazy over getting rid of me or keeping me, he asks me a lot of questions about my views on marriage, kids, baby names, if and how I'd like to marry and where, details about raising a child etc.
He wants to commit or break up? Why do we even have to start a new phase and not stay as we r? 4 years is a long time, i know, but i m happy the way things r, im afraid to change sth. And I don't understand. Whatever he wants i'll accept. And he knows all I want is his satisfaction. But what is it that he wants after all?

Witch dear: please read your own post. What you are describing is NOT a healthy relationship. This is not what you want for the rest of your life. You are not respecting yourself in this relationship and you must know deep in your heart that this is not ok. Even if he would honestly love you (which I doubt as per your post) you are not carrying this relationship as it should, putting up with cheating and mistreatment.

You should seek counselling to get over this addiction.

Best wishes.

I don't want marriage or anything,

and I don't mind his seing other women,

i obey his every command, and he plays with my feelings like crazy.

I don't mind if he cheats, abuses or neglects me,

Under whatever terms he desires.

I'm starting to like his sadistic nature!

are you serious? :confused: :confused: :confused:

You have got to be kidding me.......yeah....thats a healthy relationship to bring a child into.....

First... there is:
mas·och·ism Audio pronunciation of "masochist" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ms-kzm) n. 1. The deriving of sexual gratification, or the tendency to derive sexual gratification, from being physically or emotionally abused. 2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from being humiliated or mistreated, either by another or by oneself. 3. A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences.

Then there is:
sa·dism Audio pronunciation of "sadism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sdzm, sdz-) n. 1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others. 2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty. 3. Extreme cruelty.

And then there is:
sa·do·mas·o·chism Audio pronunciation of "sadomasochist" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sd-ms-kzm, sd-) n. The combination of sadism and masochism, in particular the deriving of pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting or submitting to physical or emotional abuse.

Do any of these terms sound familiar to you? YOU need to see a trained and professional therapist.
~phos

ok ok I get the picture! Enough with the 'go to a shrink' talk!
Things r looking up I'd say, he insulted me (again) well this time I'm furious. U c, due to a hormonal problem, I've gained a few extra pounds. I'm not a fat cow or anything ( :p ), I just lost my figure. Training and dieting makes my feel sh*** enough already, so do mirrors. But he told me that if I don't get my figure back, he wants to break up, cause he likes to go out with beautiful people! Not to mention, he's overweight and has become even so since I met him. And of course has other annoying habbits (snoring, losing temper easily etc) that my love blinded me from. But i never told him to lose those extra pounds or lose me! I thought 4 years of relationship involved sentiment, not only shallow criteria (which r common sense only between teenagers). Don't men grow up, ever?
Couldn't I complain about millions of things? (if i didn't love him sure). I told him to go find someone else who won't need to b changed. After all he was always hiding our relationship in shame, even when I looked like a model. he sayd he may do that, but have me as well, cause i belong to him and im more mature in character than any other he met.
After all this i asked for a loooong break as a 4-year anniversary gift. To ensure i get it, I played on his ego and of course he's to selfish to ever call me again, now. Hmm why do i feel so free? ;) Oh Dimitris, my friend's nameday is today. I guess I'll accept his invitation for a change and go out. After all he likes me for what i m. (however, doesn't deserve to be the rebound boy)
Thanks for the advice, all of u. I worry I'll run to my 'master' begging. I fear myself. But isn't it a bit insensitive to send me to a psycitrist to get over a man?

:rolleyes: Hon, your problems are so much deeper than just getting over a man... people on this forum can't HELP you, because you WANT to be abused, you've said so yourself.

What is being seen here is sad and pathetic.

What is it you're actually expecting from a forum of strangers? To idly sit back while you espouse to your masochistic lifestyle as if you actually WANT help?

As I said, if you WANT help, see a shrink. Because while you think your problems are because of him using/abusing you... its MUCH clearer from your posts that YOU are you own worst nightmare and revel in this treatment. Which IS sad...

... and that's all it is. SAD.

~phos

Wow!!!!!!!1
What Fos said, yes indeedy.
If you want to live your life being treated so poorly..........KNOW that about yourself and be happy with your choice.
I am betting that, if you bring a child into this mess, you will be so overwhelmed that meeting your child's needs on top of dealing with your abusive lifestyle will lead to more problems than you can possibly imagine......to say the least.
Worst, one day that child might either hate you for it or become just like what he/she grew up in.
BTW, noticing your sreen name, I will say this to you...............a real witch would NEVER tolorate such behavior, all energy would be lost and so negative that she would be overwhelmed with her bad karma............I mean, if you believe in that sort of thing ;)
Blessings, Tinydancer

What worries me....is how quickly you change your mind about your feelings for this man.

Before you were so "in love" with him....that you were willing to let him abuse you. Now you're on a break from him and feeling "free."

You're going from one extreme to the next, which isn't very healthy.

Nadine.

This man makes me go to extremes. I can either adore or hate him, this is what passion is all about i guess. Tinydanger is right about the nickname thing.. I'm a pagan. And because he's an atheist, mocked my belief (subtly though) and i supressed it, along with many other elements of my personality.
Fos this is cruel, i hope u understand.. I DO take any advice serously and i certainly don't apreciate your pity. I'm here because i've nobody else to confide in, and cause i believe strangers have no reason not to give nutral advice. A parent or a friend is too emotionally involved to give good advice. Anyway.
Whenever i break up, he calles the next day as if nothing's happened, and if i object he acts surprised. To b honest i don't know how a woman breaks up a relationship, generally; i've never experienced it before. His previous girlfriends did it the way u pull a tooth out. Painfully and with difficulty. His ex-wife had a restraining order and ridiculed him when the cups threw him out.
At the moment im burying those 'deep problems' u mentioned, under tones of books; I study german literature and management at two different schools.U c, I lost my job.. as if i didn't have enough worries already. ive quite a few diplomas for my age but unemployment is high here. So im trying to forget him that way, fighting for all these irrelevent things. But really, I dream that he'll change. Who knows if he can. If he would.

You've lost me.You say you take peoples advice seriously but when Fos offers advise/shares her opinion,you see it as pity.

What is it that you want???

Hmmm, you have to love someone for what they are now......not what they could be.
I have found that the STRONGER, HAPPIER, and WHOLE that I am, the more I attract the more positive things life has to offer.
Case in point.........now you have lost your job! How much negativity do you want in your life???
Truly, all the degrees in the world won't help you if you can't use the knowledge that was required to get them.
You are a kindergarden teacher??? What in the world are you teaching your students about bullies, insecurities, and living for what could be instead of what IS????????????????????????????
No judgements here, it is your life, BUT, I do have my own judgements about what you need to be as a teacher of children.......I am a teacher myself and how I live my life and my state of mind, DIRECTLY affects them.......even if you don't think they have a clue.
Blessings, Tinydancer

Again, I will give you the best advice I can possibly offer. See a trained, professional psychiatrist ("SHRINK" as you put it) to help you get a handle on your issues...

... there is no one on this board qualified to assist you with your mood swings, your masochistic tendancies or with this man. Not one person here is trained to deal with the problems you're talking about...

Waving the suggestion off as if it's ridiculous :rolleyes: is where the problem lays. You NEED professional help. PROFESSIONAL. As in, someone who is educated in the deep psychological problems you seem to be manifesting in your decisions, obsessions, mood swings (bipolar?), masochism and then some.

I don't pity YOU... I find your situation SAD and pathetic. Pity means: sympathetic sorrow for one suffering, distressed or unhappy.

I really cannot tell from your posts whether or not you are a) suffering, b) distressed or even c) unhappy. You jump back and forth in your emotions and seem to revel in being someone's subordinate, slave or peon. This I find pathetic, not pity worthy. As you do this and somehow derive pleasure from being his garbage?

If you were in this position and truly wanted to be free of this disgusting excuse for a human being, then I might actually have pity for you as a person. Instead, you say things like "I worry I'll run to my 'master' begging. I fear myself" as if you deserve to be nothing but dirt under someone else's feet. *shrug*

See a TRAINED professional. An internet forum is not where you should be seeking advice to get out of this situation you've happily traipsed into.

~phos

The word choices here are stunning... is there a language gap by any chance? I see you are in Greece.

Is this some sort of a joke Witch? :confused:

Not convinced of the genuity of your posts. Something doesnt ring right here.

Hi there! Well, at your age it sure is easier to tell oneself that we have "time to waste" on a negative relationship like this. When you reach your 30's-40's etc., I think that you will be less willing to offer up your youth to someone for, frankly, nothing! I think even in my 20's I had these thoughts about wasting my youth on someone who was mentally abusive as this man is. Perhaps you're just stuck in a negative rut or cycle with this man. I think 4 years is more than enough time to know what you need to know, and if you can find the strength, move on. Treat yourself like a princess, you should not be treated this way, your life is important and should not be played with by him. I wish you a new beginning!

As for the kids, the system our small kindergarden-society has, doesn't encourage bullying. Oddly, 6-year-olds r more mature and clever than most people think. Anyway all my life i was never bullied, and im assertive in everyday life. I don't know, this man makes me bow to his will.
So it is normal to be attached to your first? I suppose it's the security he makes me feel. I can let go and trust him; he makes sure nobody hurts me (only he does!).
As much as it hurts to admit, i do need a shrink though i doubt he will be able to help either. Can a specialist talk the addiction out of me? Like it is possible for a drug addict or the follower of a cult, to act as a normal person if a therapist says so. I see how serous my problem is, when he calls. My willpower vanishes at he sound of his voice :( Not to mention that in person it's impossible to break up. I don't have the strength. Or the courage to start over with a new man.
Ahh I want to scream now!
Thank u all for being here, caring. I've many friends but nobody to trust.

Witch,
I am no psychiatrist but have studied this field, as a hobby, for well over 20 years now. My best friend is a "shrink" and I have been going to therapy since I was about 12. I have what they so graciously call "Artistic Temperment" :rolleyes:
It does help, if nothing else, it gives you a "nonjudgemental" place to talk. They can also give you excercises that will help you to recognize and modify your behavior. You still have to do the work and want to change though.
IMO, you have an unhealthy addiction to an unhealthy man. He is NOT your master, you are NOT his slave........unless you want to be. If that is what you want then, don't complain about what he does to you........you are allowing it.
Addiction of any kind is tough to beat but it can be done.
Like Fos said, let someone qualified try to help you help yourself.
Blessings, Tinydancer

Hm I wonder, all this mistreat, could it b an attempt to break me? Long ago, he asked if I would marry him (hypothetically); it was after an arguement and I was still so upset that I replied 'no way, I don't wanna b bullied by my husband, and u hate kids after all'. Is it possible that he's taking his revenge for my being so raw in my reaponse? It was the truth anyway! I want him for a lover. I come to think, I'll be 30 and he'll b 60 in a few years; does he want me for a nurse or something?
As for the therapist thing, here if u visit any doctor, they write it on your personal record, your insurance book. I wouldn't like future employers to see in this book that I visit a shrink. Like it or not, the forum is the only 'safe' way to get advice.

Wow, no wonder his wife and previous g/fs left him. They smarten up and realize this was the lunatic of all lunies.

Of cause he won't leave you and keeps coming back, who is really going to put up with him at his age, certainly not someone HIS age.

I agree with Fos...you have deep issues. This isn't about him, its about you and your obviously lack of knowing your own sense of self worth, so you have sold your soul to the devil for cheap I might add.

If that's the case, well I can't sympathize with you...you're old enough to know what is right and wrong, what is healthy and dysfunctional. Until you find your authentic self, you're just a wuss and this man knows you're so subhuman, and he knows you believe you're subhuman, so he can treat you as the lower class you believe yourself to be. Hopefully, in a few more years, your ephiphany will come in and you'll see yourself for the amazing woman that you really are. Until such time and if you won't go to therapy, then all you can do is wait to really grow up, find your life and a deep love for yourself.

I don't think anything else anyone here can tell you will make much of a difference. You first have to want to be better and you're not there yet. I hope its soon before this man breaks whatever sense of deceny and integrity you still have left.

Paris

Witch,
First of all, you need to STOP wondering what his intentions are.........getting back at you for rejecting his marriage proposal is HIS problem. I do doubt that that is what he is doing though. From your description, he is just a very sick, immature, insecure, person. I don't even want to call him a man b/c his behavior is so far from what I consider a man to be.
I understand different cultures and the stigma of seeing a professional but, in your case, I would still recomend it.
Who the heck cares what is or isn't in your permanent records if your life is in pieces?
I have found that there are not many people who wouldn't benefit from a little help at some point in their lives.
I personally would rather take the chance on getting help, feeling better, and then explaining to any potential employer that you were going through a rough patch and needed some guidiance to help you. Isn't that what teachers do for their students on a daily basis anyway?
You do not need to divulge why you needed to see a professional. That is personal in any country unless it was for child abuse or something that could cause problems with your job. For all your employers know..........you could have needed help getting through a family crisis or death..........Which, in a way, you kind of are.
I have chosen to continue trying to help you because I feel that you are smart enough to do what is right for you. I will get tired of this sooner or later, if you continue to CHOOSE to stay in this mess your in.
Off the subject, I love Greece, it is one of my favorite places on this planet. My family is from Italy, which is so close, and I still have distant family there. I would love to go back again now that I am not performing and would have time to explore more. Unfortunately, the only way I was able to see all the places that I have is b/c the company or show I was with took care of our expenses. Don't think I could afford it on my own anymore :(
Blessings, Tinydancer

Well the Eurvision contest is a good opportunity if u want to come. It's in May, right? U r in America? So u don't know Elena Paparizou? My country treats tourists as kings, (and locals as animals!). I'm sure there r travel agencies who transport groups of people in any country for a low price. If u need any tips message me.
Anyway I decided to put my personal messy life on ice and devote to studies and work. I know problems don't go away by denying to deal with them but i lack the self esteem and maturity it all takes. I'm also studying some self-improvment books and psycology; it's a start i guess. I still fear he's going to lure me back into his arms, ah im so badly attracted, this is haaard.

Hey Witch,
It may be hard but you do sound better.
Stay busy and try to learn that being lonely is so much easier than feeling alone in a bad relationship.
One day I will get back to Greece but probably not in this next year.
I need to regroup, much has happened in my life this past year, some good, some awful......I just want to float for a while.
Blessings, Tinydancer

Is this some sort of a joke Witch? :confused:

Not convinced of the genuity of your posts. Something doesnt ring right here.

I'm sorry but this is exactly what I was thinking.

I may be gullable (spell?).....but I don't think so.
Unfortunately, I have known a few other women like her. I, for one, will give her the benefit of the doubt.
She is a Greek woman and her english is not the best. I do not agree with her choices but neither will I judge her.....like I've said, I really have known a few women like this. Sad but true.
Blessings, Tinydancer

witch, go buy your self a book called' Malignant self love ' narcissism revisited, by Sam Vaknin. The book will astound you. It is the only thing that woke me up, although my case is not as exstreme as yours. Your man is a narcisssist, they cannot love anything, they torture you and hurt you because they derive pleasure from it. Please read it.

yes I've read the book. It is really describing my man with every detail!
In a year I'm going abroad to work; if he doesn't forget me I won't either. But if he does, I'll find myself another man to respect me.
The thing is, he's trying to convince me not to leave; talks indirectly and directly about marriage and kids while continues the mistreat. Sometimes I see him as a fragile innocent angel and i don't want to hurt him, other times he turns into a narcissistic monster who only wants to take.
We fight often, on the phone too. It doesn't work and it's obvious to both of us. So why do i feel this affection for him no matter what happens?

Hey Witch, sounds like you are doing better!
Why do you still think you love him? Probably b/c you need, for some reason, to idealize this man for reasons only you can know.
Keep stepping back and watching him as a bystander instead of someone unfortunate enough to be involved with him.
Watch his behavior, and yours, write it down and see what it looks like on paper 'cause from here it doesn't look so good lol.
Also try to discover what is inside you that needs to be treated so poorly and would even consider marriage with someone like him. Fix yourself b/c I think it is very unlikely that you will be able to fix him.
Blessings, Tinydancer

the book is correct in almost every aspect. they mix you up and you are like a dog chasing your tail. they do these things because they can. they toy with your life as long as you let them. it is called narsissistic supply . you know this if you read this book. take it from someone who has gone through this on and off for 15 years.with the same man. i to was hoping for him to wake up. as you can see he did not. it has only been two weeks since i broke it off . it is a struggle everyday but there has to be some sort of piece of mind. run before he uses all your youth up and you have nothing left to give to someone else.

This is only my second post but I have to jump in here. Maybe everyone should step back in time and remember what it was like to love a difficult person, okay? And let's face it, a man 30 years witches senior knows every mind game in the book. So please everyone try to be a little nicer to her. It's easy to sit back and say, "do this, do that" but it's easier said than done when you're wrapped up in a toxic relationship. A long time ago, I bought a book called, "Smart Women, Foolish Choices". Hopefully you can still get it, little Witch. Amazon.com is a wonderful resource for books on everything. Please check it out and read the excerpts that are available of many of their books. Good luck and God Bless You sweety. :)

Rosie,
Not "everyone" has been harsh. However, there is only so much advice another person can give to someone. At some point they have to want to make their own changes. She has received some good advice. Now it is up to her and what kind of life she wants.
And yes, many people in this world are not familar with this type of situation and have a hard time acknowledging that this kind of toxic relationship exsists.
Blessings, Tinydancer

Rosie,
Not "everyone" has been harsh. However, there is only so much advice another person can give to someone. At some point they have to want to make their own changes. She has received some good advice. Now it is up to her and what kind of life she wants.
And yes, many people in this world are not familar with this type of situation and have a hard time acknowledging that this kind of toxic relationship exsists.
Blessings, Tinydancer
Good Morning
Yes, Tiny Dancer , you for one, have been extremely kind. Blessings to you, my friend and I pray for little Witch. A dear friend has been dealing with a similar situation for 17 years and I see the hurt in her eyes when I had tried to give "good advice". I don't tell her to "get rid of him" any more because it only hurts her feelings. Sorry if I was misunderstood. :(

there is much compassion here for witch,i am at this point trying to recover myself. I was told for many years to leave and i wish i would have listened. very few narrcissists will get help. The prognosis is not good even if they do. and yes seeing a therapist is exactly what i did. i still could not believe what they were telling me. and it took up until this point that i had to let go. it has been a long road for me. it is like breaking an addiction. and very hard to do. i believe in being kind , but also i believe that you should not mislead someone. she will know what to do when the time comes. and hopefully it will be the right choice for her.

"compassion" is what gets on my nerves! For your advice I thank u from the depths of my heart; it's important to feel understood. Compassion is what I get from some close friends too and it implies u r the superior who pities poor me.
Anyway lately he's been nagging cause I want to leave to work abroad. He wants me to stay and pass on this great job opportunity that will surely help me stand on my feet.
I don't get it. He wants me here but won't commit, won't even stop hiding our relationship. How can a person only like to take take take and never give love?
I really love children; that's why I became a kindergarden teacher.. So deep inside I see him as a child, who demands and takes without giving in return anything but a smile and maybe a hug now and then. It's strange. Maybe I'm crazy for seen a macho man as a child but I guess he's found all my weeknesses and uses thenm against me.
It will end, eventually, but who knows what it will cost me.

Witch.........he will cost you what YOU let him cost you!!!!!!!!!
Take the job woman! Meet new people and stand back from him for awhile.
It is only time. See him with "new eyes" after some time working away from him and on yourself. Only then will you either see him for the manipulator he is or..............deal with him and be HAPPY!
That's the best I can give by way of advice.
Blessings, Tinydancer

i believe tiny dancer gave you the absolute best advise there is. mine was not meant as a criticism or to tell you what to do. In the end YOU have that choice. I am thinkng of your young age. i also have a daughter the same age. our first instinct is to protect that daughter . had i had the wealth of imformation that is out there, i may have made a diffrent choice many years ago. i just did not know what was wrong. and had no idea of a personality disorder like this. i have done much therapy and research on this subject and finally came to realize i am worth more than his value of me. and yes they are like a child because they do not develop like other children. they come from abusive homes or are overvalued as a child. very sad. because ike a child they are so loveble. and can turn on you without warning.