Letting go of the kids...

I have been presented with a huge decision that will probably need to be made by next summer. So I have time to think this over long and hard. I realize it's not one that anyone else can make for me.... but looking for heartfelt input here.

Background: Divorced 3yrs ago and ex remarried a woman with three kids close in age to our own. He moved closer to New Orleans and been working there ever since for a company based out of Chicago. He makes pretty decent money in an overloaded/saturated job market here. New Orleans isn't recovering fast enough for his parent company to keep it going here. He was told by next summer, he'll most likely have to move his family to Chicago to keep his job. He won't consider looking for something closer, because he has security/stability/benefits with this company.

Choice: We share joint custody of my daughter(12) and son(7) and I have them during the school year. He has them all summer, every other weekend and long holidays. He asked me today if I'd consider switching our routine and letting them live with him during the school year if he goes to Chicago.

There are valid points that I must consider.

PROS:

-- Chicago will have better economy (Louisiana is beyond broke), more opportunities academically (daughter is a wiz) and it'll give them a chance to see what life is like outside Louisiana. He and I neither ever lived anywhere else. Found out recently, our scholorship program (TOPS) is being cut to the bone now.

-- They offer a two-parent household with lots of structure/discipline. I've seen this and they do a better job than me of "providing" for the kids. I'm a working, single mother that struggles with the juggling act and trying to find time for kids/job/dr.visits/etc. Not having a comitted partner helping me is rough and my family is useless.

-- My daughter is overly dependent on me (emotionally) and it might do her some good to be forced into a more independent situation. She crawls up my butt, has no friends and refuses to spread her wings any socially. Son is following that same path. I don't have time to get them involved in outside activities that would encourage their social skills. The ex could/does for his 3 stepchildren and would for his own.

-- I have no time to work on myself as a person. No time/money to hit the gym, get some therapy, develop my career skills, or possibly try college. I'm stuck in a contractor job with alot of instability now and could find myself unemployed with minimal skills to demand the salary I'm making now, without something to give me an edge (certifications/degree). Having them live with him would give me a chance to become a healthier, better person/mother.

CONS:

-- The ex isn't the most emotional available guy with his kids. He's overly stern at times, and there is some partiallity going on with the stepkids. He expects more from his own and they in turn feel some unfairness is happening at times.

-- My three surviving family members (mom,stepdad,uncle) will roll over and die. They live for the kids, and will hate me for giving them up. I'll be alienated as a horrible mother that gave her kids away most likely. Then again, they spoil them, get in my personal business too much and I'm already on the outs with them over my present dating choice.

-- Chicago is far away. I'd see them the entire summer and mid-yr for a long holiday. I'd miss out on soooo much of their critical development hitting the teens. I'd miss the things we mothers live for, like homecomings and special events. I don't see my ex going out of his way to keep me involved thru pics/emails/etc. I'd lose that bond/control I have now. I would be the "fun parent" but not have a huge say-so anymore.

-- I'd end up paying him child support. Granted it wouldn't be much with our income ratios, but I wouldn't have say-so on what it was spent for. For all I know, it could end up being spent on the other 3 kids.

-- Daughter already has anxiety over the weekend visits with her dad, and whines about not wanting to go. She hates dealing with the other 3kids. Would she feel I threw her away? Probably.


Like I said, this is a tough decision. He could technically give them a better life than I at present. I can give them more emotional support though. If I did this for even a year and found myself in a better place, wanted to reverse it, could I?

Please search your hearts and tell me what you would do in this situation? Have you done this, and what were the results? I'm looking for real-life experience and hypothetical comments. I want the best life for my kids, and right now I can't offer what he can on so many levels. I love them and want to be unselfish in this.

Thanks for your time with this long read.

Gypsyheart,

I am not a parent and have nothing in my background that would really help me make a choice in this matter.

All I can do is tell you my "gut instinct:" Let the ex take the kids.

I base this mainly on your stated need to develop yourself. You gotta help YOURSELF before you can help others. If you are unemployed or underemployed in the near future, that's not good for you or your kids.

But, if you can take two years worth of classes that lead to an important degree or certificate, then you are on much stronger ground, professionally. Then maybe you can more confidently visit the kids in Chicago, or pay for them to visit you on 3-day weekends during the school year, and so on.

Hope that makes sense.

Wow, ok...I'm not a parent either but speaking as a person who's been through a lot of transition and change, I say I agree with Harrison - as long as certain things are monitored to make sure the kids are bouncing back as they should be able to.

I think this type of change could be great for everyone involved. What the success can really hinge on is how the kids are treated once they are in their new environment. Since this was the EX's idea, and not yours...what are his motives? If he is truly doing this to better everyone's lives...then as far as the kids go, HE'D BETTER DO JUST THAT. He needs to NOT play favorites and not indulge his kids over yours. Care must be taken that a change like this doesn't turn into every kid's nightmare: things going from bad to worse.

Point being, your ex is volunteering to do something really big here, and the best thing would be if he does it right. This can be a huge turning point for the kids' success and may majorly expand their horizons, it's almost equivalent to the old ways where the wealthy kids got sent to boarding school in Europe, often right around those ages, and gained sophistication with their new worldly experience. But, your kids will have the advantage that they will have their Dad (and other hopefully loving parent figure) instead of having to do it alone in a dorm!

Now Gypsy...I don't think you can assume that you will lose emotional ground with your kids. You are their Mom and will always be. That's an advantage parents have, they are always important in our lives no matter how far apart we are geographically. And yes, you will have them every summer.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Kids are often extremely afraid of change for obvious reasons, and although parents do have to pay attention to what is bothering the kids, if it is just fear of the unknown and not some other more serious problem the kid is right to anticipate (like "I don't want to go live with my funny uncle" sorta things), then...off they go. They'll get over it. :)

(Edited when I realized the posts were moved over here. Duhhh! Go me! :p)

I dont know Harrison....Ive pondered and pondered this one, and shes got some major issues both ways.....Im inclined to say to you Gypsy, if it were me, Id keep them, but you need to do whats best for the both of them and for you.

What I might suggest though is to start family therapy now and begin addressing these issues before it comes down to the wire. I think if you get more clear about yourself, and see exactly how your kids feel about this, eventually youll be able to make your choice with hopefully a clear conscious....even if it is that you decide its best for your children to go.

Sounds to me like you could even do with some therapy to deal with some issues already existing. Sounds harsh, but if your kids already have anxiouty issues...do you think sending them from there home town with the family they love and trust off to a city they dont know with a pre-made family that they already possibly have issure with? Would this, Could this be better for them ?

Im a big advocate of therapy by the way, if you have a good therapist, they will be there to listen and guide you through all this, not to judge you and tell you what you need to do...

I just hope your area has counseling services available for low cost or no fees....you should look into it!

Im gonna add on to what Harrison said....

CAn you not take some college courses (I found this really helpful to me) and also look into some classes for your children to take also....Some art or dance classes for them? Is there a community service type organization that you can call to get some support and information? I know from previous post you have some control issues with your parents...I was there once with my ex in-laws, while at the time it was very helpful, it really hurt my own self esteem to let these people walk all over me. I had to learn to stand up to them, and now they know there boundries and dont cross them...and they have more respect for me also. And they are still very much a part of my childrens lives....Knowing the relationship my kids have with there grandparents....I could never have taken that away.

Good Luck....

Although it sounds like your ex could offer them a good life, it seems like your kids really don't want to go. If they are happy and comfortable with their routine, is there a reason to shake it up?? Plus, despite they it may SEEM like they would get more attention in a two adult household, that's 5 kids in one house. That is a big family now and days. Maybe they are just fine with you. You are still a good woman if you let them go, it's just a matter of seeing what works for everyone, although they are just kids their feelings need to come into consideration.

Well, I'll speak from the parent perspective. I would never feel comfortable letting either of my kids go to live with their Dads. They both have solid relationships with their fathers, but I couldn't abide myself not being there through those crucial milestones. And regardless of what my family thought about me... *I* would feel like a horrible mother, whether they did or not! And its NOT that you ARE for considering it ~ I'm just pointing out that if you're worrying about the family thinking that, you're really worrying about feeling that yourself... as I would be, too.

Something else to consider... since it doesn't seem like you've got all that much going for yourself in Lousiana, how good is your friendship with the ex and his wife, and would it be easier on everybody (or even possible) for you to consider relocating along WITH your kids? Getting yourself a nice little apartment 15-20 minutes away from them??

That way no one is abandoning them and its possible YOU could find some real opportunities for yourself while maintaining a visitation/support network with your ex. JUST a thought. Especially given you have so much time to work with.

I also wouldn't be too eager to push your daughters emotional needs off... when she is ready to spread her wings, she will. I don't think having a close mother-daughter relationship is ever a bad thing.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here... is there a reason you need to STAY?

~phos

Something else to consider... since it doesn't seem like you've got all that much going for yourself in Lousiana, how good is your friendship with the ex and his wife, and would it be easier on everybody (or even possible) for you to consider relocating along WITH your kids? Getting yourself a nice little apartment 15-20 minutes away from them??

That way no one is abandoning them and its possible YOU could find some real opportunities for yourself while maintaining a visitation/support network with your ex. JUST a thought. Especially given you have so much time to work with.

Hey, good point Phos! I like it. :)

Looks to me like your list of cons outweighs your list of pros. It is a tough decision and you certainly are doing the right thing in thinking this through carefully.

Have you thought about asking your children what they would want to do? I realize that they won't understand which scenario may be best for them, but wouldn't it be important to consider what they would want to do?

I remember being faced with a similar situation when my own parents were going through a divorce. My mother wasn't as able to take care of us as my father was (financially speaking). A judge asked me who I wanted to live with. Hands down, I said my mother. I knew I would be much happier with her.

Obviously, if you do include them in the decision making process you would need to reassure them that they should not feel pressured to choose. This is not what this is about. It's about asking which they prefer just so that you can factor that into your decision.

I agree with WR, the cons outweigh the pros at this moment. Why don't you continue on with the present arrangement for the first year that the ex is in Chicago? See how things go, see how the ex and family and your kids adjust to life in Chicago, check out their living situation, neighborhood, schools, etc. Make sure the kids understand that you are all taking the first year as an evaluation period and involve them in the decision-making process.

Also, an option might be for you to move up there, too. You have already been thinking of getting away from your present situation. Although the weather might be very hard for you to deal with, there would be lots more opportunities in Chicago to attain the personal growth goals you have mentioned. You would also be close to the kids and that would make them feel more comfortable, too.

Gypsy,

I honestly think that if you don't have alot of opportunties where you are in New Orleans area, you should think about relocating if the ex relocates. I don't think the 12 year old is going to be happy with anything but the status quo at this point. It sounds to me like she could benefit from some counseling. She sounds so very much like my daughter at 12. My daughter is now almost 20 and I wish I would have dragged her to counseling back when I could drag her!

There are some terrific suggestions here and a combination of them probably could work for all of you. From what I've read of your posts lately, you could benefit from getting away from the "folks". The kids don't need to be spoiled. You need to get on your own feet and get more education, get on the road to a career and such. Your folks have their own agenda, and nothing is going to change on that front.

What a blessing that you have a year to make a plan. I'd make a decision about what I was going to do (if you'd consider relocation) and then start to set things in motion. In another year or two, your daughter will be starting out the teen phase full blast and it will be even more difficult to make a change with her in HS.

I think it's time to think out of the box on this on Gypsy. No one has to lose, but everyone can win.

Yes, I say relocate to Chicago along with them. Not only will they get to spread their wings and get new experiences, but so will you.

I think it would be a wonderful idea for you to explore.....

Some of you may remember 3 years ago when I felt up against a wall and sent my daughter down to Grandma's for her 2cnd grade year.
In my case, I was working such long hours that she wasn't getting to bed until about 11:00pm every night. I didn't know anyone who could help me with her and didn't want her grades slipping b/c she was tired all of the time. I got a lot of flak from that decision but I did what I had to do. I didn't abandon her........I sent her to "Camp Grandma" big difference. I did it out of love for her and no other reason.
As a result, she is very close to Grandma, which I am gratful for, and seems no worse for wear now.
Do what feels right to you and feel good about that decision no matter which way it goes.
I think the ladies have given great advice about moving, if it is something you could do. The main reason that we moved back to the east coast was to have our family a little closer together.......it sucks doing it all alone.
Blessings, Tinydancer

Oh Goodness Gypsy, you are in my thoughts and prayers. What decisions we have to make. I dont have any advice. But I wish you peace and happiness in this situation. :)

Chicago's the best city in America!! Do it!! You'll love it there!! It's the only other place I'd live besides South FL!! But I'd have to build a house with an indoor beach with lots of heat!! HEEHAW!! :p :cool:

Thanks guys for giving me some sage advice and lots to consider. I've got a while to ponder all the different scenarios, which I'm thankful.

I asked the daughter (hypothetically) how she'd feel about it and she had a panic attack just thinking about it. Right now, I'm leaning towards keeping things as they are until he settles in where he's going to be. This wont happen until next summer.

The idea of me moving there is also a possibility I hadn't thought of.
You've given me lots to think about.....

If you allow your kids to go live in another state and your ex does not live up to his end of the agreement (visits, phone calls, support), your legal fees will be VERY HIGH AND the state that the kids are in will favor that parent.

You think you know your ex? You don't know beans about the real guy, until you let your kids move in with him in another state with the step-mom.

I speak from experience. There is NO WAY I would let my kids/grandkids go to another state to live while I am in another state from them. Be warned... It can be really really bad. Just my humble opinion and EXPERIENCE, FYI. :(

True YR, very true...... I have to remember who I'm talking about here.

This is the same man .........

- who cheated on me twice (that I know of) while I was pregnant with his firstborn.
- who disrespected me and taunted me over my weightgain intentionally for yrs.
- who puts me down every chance he gets and luvs to get one over on me.
- who pays less than normal child support (per a verbal agreement 3yrs ago) and nickels/dimes me to death over buying them some shoes/clothes/supplies/etc.

He's a wolf in sheep's clothing, when it comes to manipulating things his way.

Bottom line is my daughter cannot stand him(& stepmom) and says it's bad enough that she's forced to go with him all summer. She is counting the days until she's 13 and can say "no, I dont want to go anymore." She's a good kid, so he must be working hard at ******* up his father/daughter relationship.... (sigh)

I'd have to be pressed against the wall with hard times, before I'd turn lose and switch schedules. The ex is the type that would screw me, if I let him. He'd make me fight to even see them when it was my turn. :(

Moving up there with them is a viable possibility. We'll see.......

Quote: Bottom line is my daughter cannot stand him(& stepmom) and says it's bad enough that she's forced to go with him all summer. She is counting the days until she's 13 and can say "no, I dont want to go anymore." Well if he's that big of a numb nuts screw it!! What is the law? If he moves to IL does he give up the right to see the kids? Hate to see the kids getting damaged like this!! :mad:

Gypsy like I told you in PM, I am a (Texas) family law attorney and I want you to think lots of "things" but bottom line, if you think your kids are going for 2 yrs and then you are going to get them afterwards, think again. I have seen those arrangements made and then when the time is up, it does not happen, your ex will refuse to give you the kids back, even if it is in writing. By the way I must make this disclaimer I am not giving you legal advice. :)

Nevertheless, think this, if your ex is going to make more money you can do a motion to increase child support, take him back to court. I do not know if in your area there is legal aid, pro bono or some type of non profit organization that can help you for free or a reduced rate according to your income.

He has no legal duty to support his stepchildren so you should be getting child support according to guidelines (do research for Louisiana) and since he is paying you less than guidelines its about time you take him back to court, specially with an increase in his salary. Tell him the verbal agreement you had with him you can no longer honor it because the children have too many expenses. I bet he spends money on his step-kids, and then he is not fulfilling his legal obligation with his own children. What a shame!

I think your kids maybe better off with you even if you have less money. They may end up resenting you for the rest of your life for abandonment, even if you think its in their best interest to go with their father.

As a single parent is very hard, even if you have all the money in the world, to give your kids everything they need, love, nurturing, guidance, etc. It is emotionally devastating, I know I am a single parent with a very non involved ex-husband.

Further, living with step brothers and sisters the resentment and the competition will be too high. There will always be one kid that is correct/better/smarter/etc., and the other kid won't be.

Also if your kids move, the local court looses jurisdiction and you will have to get it transfer to the new place, usually after 6 months of residence in the new location. So best strategy its to tell your ex husband when he asks you again that you will not allow the kids to go but hey do not be surprise if he takes you to court anyway to request a change of custody.

And by the way what ever type of agreement you have with your ex in regard to custody, money, visitation, traveling expenses, etc., always put it in writing and both of you sign it and file it with the court under your divorce number, so there is at least a record made.

Do not trust him, it does NOT sound like he has the children nor your best interest at heart. Somehow I suspect an ulterior motive.

Well, these are just things to think about and there is lot more but at least you have some things to consider now. And by the way, I hope you are feeling better on the post-operation recovery and the quitting of your smoking! That is rough! Hang in there.

Good luck.

Quote: [I] If he moves to IL does he give up the right to see the kids? Hate to see the kids getting damaged like this!! :mad:


DaBollocks I know you are not very fond of attys. but we are a necessity!!! jajaja A necessary evil even if you want to call it that. But just think of all the parents that live in different states than their kids, would they loose their rights to see their kids? Naaaa.....

Every jurisdiction has laws that take care of visitations arrangements for long distance parents, even for parents out of the country. The kids' father can continue visiting the children and be involved in their life. Long distance makes matters a little more complicated, as to logistic, cost and arrangements but it can still be done in a very healthy manner to see his kids and continue contact with them.

Do you like attys. a bit better now? jajaja