How Long is Long-Term?

Hi, long-termers ~

My last relationship ended back in February. It was my first real AG relationship.

Since then, I've been dating a little but nothing serious. Whether dating or just finding myself talking to a guy over a beer or a football game at the local pub, most of the guys I find myself talking to are younger, to some extent. It's just sort of happening this way - it's not a conscious 'selection process'. (Maybe subconscious!)

I was talking to a friend last night and she asked me: Would you really want to get seriously involved with someone a lot younger than you, for the long-term?

I admit, I've been wondering about this myself. And what I've been stuck on is the fact that when we were in our 20s, many of us thought that we were with the person that we wanted to spend the rest of our lives with. And most of us are not with that same person today. We thought we were madly in forever-love but our relationships progressed and we experienced more life and we moved on. (I'm not really elaborating because I think that most of you will understand what I'm talking about.)

As my friend said, a lot of times love in our 20s turns out to be our first real love - a learning, growing experience - but not our forever love.

I'm at a point in my life where I would be very happy to find my forever love, so does it make sense to get involved with someone in their 20s, knowing that the potential for forever is probably less than with someone nearer my own age? And...knowing that since the potential for forever is less, that the potential for getting hurt is greater.

We love who we love, regardless of age, etc. But should there be a more conscious 'selection process', in regard to age? I would not get involved with someone who does drugs, doesn't have a job (long-term), etc. Should one be considering an AG on the same conscious level or should we just go with the flow because we never really know?

When I was in my 20's I liked men in their 40's (married a man 23 yrs older than me, divorced him after 15 yrs of marriage) now in my 40's I like men in their 40's so I guess when I will be in my 60's I will still like men in their 40's jajajajaja

I find men in their 40's to be at a maturity level in life that I am most attracted to. Of course I am generalizing here but there is a sex appeal in men in their 40's that spells security, balance, and knowing what they want out of life. But men in their 40's turn 50, 60, and I may be better going with a man in his 30's jajajaja Just joking here.

I am not into the "right" age but the maturity level so if I find a man younger than me I will go for it, but hopefully not too young, and definitively not too old. Just the right fit, but what will that age be? :)

SG I wou ld go with the flow..True love just pops into your life when you almost least expect it... However forever is forever... but in life their is no guarentee of the length of your life... You could date a man in his 20's or 30's and they still could die before you..... and you would be the widow... I know the probability of the older party dying is bigger butyou can't think of that because you may miss the best opportunity of your life!!

My first husband's mother said when she turned 50 "only now I feel that I know myself". I keep remembering that.

I still cannot think of ANY relationship in terms of "forever", I loved my first husband, he's 10 years older than I am, I married him when I was 25 and even then, the idea of never having the thrill of falling in love again or feeling the shivers of a first kiss, all that goes with the first phases of falling in love, scared me to death. I couldn't help thinking "I love this man, but does this mean that I'm never going to experince the excitement of FALLING IN LOVE again?"

Then things evolved, our relationship evolved, we became more friends and roomates than lovers and we still are best friends.

So in short, my years with him were very precious, and now our friendship is priceless.

I can still not imagine"forever" with anyone. Even less with a young man. If at 41 I still cannot accept it, how on earth would I expect a 25-year old man to think of eternity. I still want to fall in love over and over again, why shouldn't it be the same for him ?

It's not a reason for me not to allow a young man into my life. It will last as long as it should, but I seriously think that I will dream of "forever" when I turn 60, with a man my age who shares a simmilar dream.

But that's just me :o

Thanks, girls.

MerLove, I guess I was thinking about it more in terms of the way that Aline presented it. Not so much someone dying early but more the conscious choice of being together forever. But you're right about "True love just pops into your life when you almost least expect it".

I believe that, often, we can make conscious choices about who we fall in love with...who we fall into a relationship with. But not always. But even true love isn't always 'right' for the people involved. But, like you said, why would I choose to pass something by that could be an "opportunity" to experience something wonderful? (Edit: lots o' buts in there!)

It's hard at 40, I guess, because by now I am more conscious of my individualism, and being happy in my own right, with my own life. And maybe I want to avoid situations that look like they have the potential to eventually bring pain into my life.

Wow, that sounds terrible! Am I avoiding situations because I'm 'smarter' about these things or because I'm tired? Or because I'm not willing to put myself out there anymore? Is trying to live 'safer'...smarter?

Aline, thank you for the different prespective. I understand what you're saying because, yes, falling in love...the feeling the feeling of love coming on, that first kiss, the chemistry...is a magical experience. Me, I can imagine forever with someone. I can imagine my 'last' falling in love experience (whenever that may be) to be the beautiful memory of the beginning of building a foundation with someone. My first love was in my 20s. I could have spent the rest of my life with him but he had his own things to work out. (He proposed after I had both feet out the door.) I guess I've never thought about "does this mean that I'm never going to experince the excitement of FALLING IN LOVE again?"

*sigh* Thanks, girls, for letting me lightly philosophize on life and love.

SG, some very good questions, my friend.

You know, I have read so often on this forum, "You aren't the person that you were in your 20's." ....now that you are *fill in the blank* age. I guess it all depends on how you define what "you" really means. My children are still the same at the core as they always were. My almost 20 year old was incredibly stubborn at 1 years old and she still is. I don't think that is ever, ever going to change. It's true for most people as well.

I think how people fall out of love over the years is that they lose touch with what is good with them at the core of their beings. Work, jobs, family stresses, that thing called "life" just wears some folks down sometimes. If you were are half empty type of person at 16, you are still that at 60. Same goes for half full....

I was always easy going, loved the simple things in life, liked to dance at the supermarket when I heard a song on the store system, etc. The world was my oyster, girl, and I was going to eat it. I married a wonderful man who had youthful enthusiasm, loved those things about me and we made a good life together. But he forgot how to laugh and have a good time, and he took himself far more seriously than I ever dreamed he could. He became a workaholic. He lost himself and I couldn't save him or me. I had to leave him and save myself because my "core" was almost dead.

So do I have more life experience at 54 than I did at 20? Sure I do. But I could have stayed married forever to that man if he didn't lose touch with himself, or me, or try to squelch those things in my core that made me truly who I am.

So now, here I am, in love with a man barely in his 20's. I sing in the store, he'll sing along. I'll dance in the store and he'll dance with me. I'll look at the sky and say how beautiful it is and he'll look at it too. He loves what is at the core of me and I love what is at the core of him. Will it be long term? Well I've known him for a little while, been with him a little over a year and a half.

Even if he breaks my heart in a thousand pieces tomorrow, he gave me back what was at the core of me and the best of me. For that, I will be eternally grateful.

Make sense?

Makes a lot of sense to me Bubbleee, as I am in that very period of rediscovering myself. My YM and I talked two nights ago and agreed that no matter what happens with this relationship we will never be bitter, because what we gave to each other at a time when we both really needed something, has been so incredibly valuable to us. He helped me get back to that "core" of myself, helped me unlock my free/creative side, and gave me unconditional love. I helped him realize that there are women who want true love over material possesions and men with rock hard abs; there are women who are open minded and accepting of individual and cultural differences! I don't know what the end to this will be, but it seems to be on a long term track. :)

In answer OP, I say go with the flow because you just don't ever know what will happen OR if you will ever find anyone again with the qualities that drew you to your AG/LDR partner!

Girls ~

Sorry for the delay in responding. Just been busy.

Bubbs, I hear you. I think you're right, that people let life happen to them and they lose their Core. They lose what is good at their Core. And from the perspective of a relationship/marriage, these were probably the things that brought two people together in the first place.

Over time, we all (hopefully) grow and change. Through the changes and challenges that life inevitably brings, can we keep sight of our own Core? Maybe we lose sight of it at times but can we remind our Selves to go back and nourish it when it starts to falter?

It's work, I think, and I think that you would agree...because it sounds like you really tried to help your ex find his again. And you somehow managed to hang onto your Core, which must have taken a lot of work in your situation.

I believe that most of us change quite a bit in our 20s. I was certainly not the same person at 22 that I was at 28...that I was at 32...that I am at 40. Although, I've somehow always been an eternal optimist, a glass half-full or even a glass is full person.

I'm not sure that I completely agree with "If you were are half empty type of person at 16, you are still that at 60. Same goes for half full....", but I can't completely disagree. Maybe I need to 'gather more data' on this topic from my personal experiences before I can figure out how I feel about it.

Bubbs and Rozie, I hear what you're saying about going with the flow and appreciating love when God/the Universe brings it into our lives. Maybe I'm tired of investing, even though on some level I know that there are never any guarantees (right, Bubbs?). Consciously, I know that when we stop putting our Selves out there and when we stop engaging others, pieces of us start to atrophy, our personal growth rates slows, and life begins to get smaller.

It's hard sometimes, though. Very hard to keep putting one's heart on the line.

Yeah, it is. And I can't say that my relationship is so secure that I would bet the farm on it, because I wouldn't. What I would bet the farm on is that I won't be the same in 10 years and neither will anybody else. And I would bet the farm that trying to predict the future or trying to place my bets right and do things in the hopes that if I line up the p's and q's just right I'll always be safe and secure, is a doomed proposition.

Just about every time I thought I had things all lined up and working - that was a pretty cosmic sign to the universe to send me for a major loop :p

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know who I would date or love or marry who would be such a fail-safe proposition. I don't consider 40 year old men to be unimissable propositions and I know too many upset forty year old women to pretend to anything different.

Sure if there was a formula that worked, I'd be interested. But I don't think it does work. There are times when a drug addict or an unemployed person DOES turn out to be Prince Charming. You roll dice - sometimes you get the doubles and sometimes you don't. There's no accounting for it.

For me, the illusion that I can control all of this has really turned out to be far more painful than just letting go and loving who I love for as long as I love them.
Not doing things or doing things because I think they will or won't result in a certain way - it just makes me feel miserable and uptight and betrayed when I don't get what I think I should.

(Hey ... I did all the "right things". I deserve to be loved forever, don't I?")

Holding the universe accountable for being reasonable, when it is in reality magical, whimsical and utterly random .... it makes me hurt inside.

So I vote for following your heart, hoping for the best and trying to prepare for the worst. I haven't found any other way to go.

Thanks, DS.

You're right, and I know that I can't control things. I like to think that I'm open-minded, flexible and maybe a touch enlightened (on a good day). And I agree with you and every here that really the only choice that we do have is to go with the flow in order to maintain some semblance of sanity. I do live my life like this overall, or at least try to.

So, maybe ...I don't know...maybe my psyche is whining or pouting or something...when I say that I'm tired of seeing love end and starting again. Maybe I'm just being a big baby about having to reach down and grab those bootstraps yet again.

Because, really, I know that there is another love that will come into my life. And I will learn and grow from it, and become a more full person from the experience.


Holding the universe accountable for being reasonable, when it is in reality magical, whimsical and utterly random .... it makes me hurt inside.

So I vote for following your heart, hoping for the best and trying to prepare for the worst. I haven't found any other way to go.

Reading these words, they made me hurt inside, in a way that is difficult to describe. Achy, almost. Can one feel a deep painful ache and yet feel relieved at the same time?

I vote for my heart, too, and I hope the best for it. Although preparing for the worst is exactly one of the things that I am so completely tired of doing. But, as you said, there really isn't any other way to go, except 'under'.

I don't know if this post belongs here or elsewhere. 2005 has been a year of incredible change for me. I left an unhappy, long term marriage and fell in love with someone half my age who lives 1200 miles away. This new relationship has done more for my personal well being than any one will ever know. I spend a lot of time wondering and yes, worrying about where this new love is headed. But, last week I had a moment of clarity and I would like to share. It occurred to me that no matter how this ends up, what I have accomplished this year with this incredible YM's support, is greater than any pain I will ever suffer because of this relationship. To worry about whether this will end in marriage or a "long term" situation, devalues what we have shared.

As we go through life we become socialized to believe that marriage and motherhood are the ultimate successes in life. Ended marriages are seen as failures. It can't be love if it doesn't stand the test of time. This week it hit me full in the face.....HOGWASH! ALL HOGWASH!! What I have experienced in the last year surpasses anything I could have imagined. Anyway you slice it, this relationship is a success! It will ALWAYS be a success, even if it ends. Why? Because we have shared, connected supported each other in the most honest and intimate ways possible: truly mind, body and soul. Just to have found each other and to have been able to sift through the fantasy of an online game to know that we had encountered someone incredibly special, is in my mind nothing short of a miracle. If not a miracle, then its a least a testimony to our honesty with each other and skill at communication.

Anyway, in 2006 I vow not to worry about how long this lasts. I suspect we have years ahead of us. But "long term" or "short term", this relationship is a success!!

If he is someone that I love like no other and would make it worth it, then my answer is: yes. Love has no age to me and I would try with all my strength to make it work.

If you find that special someone that gives you something to look forward to everyday, brings you lots of love and happiness - hold onto them for as long as you can and don't ever let go. It may be scarey but it is one of those chances that we take for love.

Our lives our too short, we never know how much time we really do have to spend with eachother =/

Thank you for posting, Rozie. And I completely understand what you're saying.

Because of the way that my last relationship ended, it's was difficult to see through the haze for a while, but there are things that we both gained from the experience, although I can only speak for myself here.

At 40, I've waded through the socialization aspect of marriage and motherhood. I actually did not grow up feeling that I needed to get married and have babies. In fact, I grew up never wanting to get married or have babies. But that was mostly based on my own personal family experiences, not on outside socialization. Growing up with this mindset, I saw marriage as an undesirable condition. Today, I'm perfectly okay with the fact that I would like to be married to the right man some day.

Jewel:

You and the other posters here are reminding me to K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid. Okay, maybe love is not the best place to apply this principle...but maybe it is..?

If you find that special someone that gives you something to look forward to everyday, brings you lots of love and happiness - hold onto them for as long as you can and don't ever let go. It may be scarey but it is one of those chances that we take for love.

I'm soaking this one up. Thank you.

At 40, I've waded through the socialization aspect of marriage and motherhood. I actually did not grow up feeling that I needed to get married and have babies. In fact, I grew up never wanting to get married or have babies. But that was mostly based on my own personal family experiences, not on outside socialization. Growing up with this mindset, I saw marriage as an undesirable condition. Today, I'm perfectly okay with the fact that I would like to be married to the right man some day.

SG, just had to add that your post made me smile! I have decided that while I was socialized to believe that marriage was a desirable condition, today I am perfectly comfortable with the fact that I will likely remain unmarried to the right one. :p

SG, just had to add that your post made me smile! I have decided that while I was socialized to believe that marriage was a desirable condition, today I am perfectly comfortable with the fact that I will likely remain unmarried to the right one. :p

Cool, Rozie. :)

Jewel:

You and the other posters here are reminding me to K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid. Okay, maybe love is not the best place to apply this principle...but maybe it is..?



I'm soaking this one up. Thank you.




^_^ heehee...good to hear ^_^

Well, its an interesting question you pose, SG. I asked that one myself when I found myself falling in love with my lady. She's almost twenty years older than me, after all. Well, aside from her age, she is everything I could have ever dreamed of and much more besides. Age aside, we seem to be a perfect match. Age considered, I still feel that it's well worth it. Who we are as people is what makes us love each other.

I do think that all of the practical considerations must be weighed before seriously dating a person that much older or younger; One day, I will likely be taking care of a debilitated lady while I still have a hefty amount of vim and vigor. Many people will criticize us. She will, at least for the forseeable future, always be worried about the age difference.

All of these things, however, can be worked out through communication, love, and commitment to eachother. If I marry a lady my own age, eventually, I'll be taking care of a senior citizen. Better to do so with my lady in a scenario where I am physically fit enough to do so. In terms of maturation, many who've posted have said that if the maturation level is there, then its fine. I agree. If both people are mature and truly in love, then going with the flow is not a bad thing at all.

Just a few thoughts.

DanE

Nice post Dan Echo,

Phil and I joke all the time about how he is going to bundle me up in my old geezer cold weather clothes and make sure I don't slip on the ice with my walker.

I'm 54 and he hopes that we get to celebrate a 30 year wedding anniversary together. Guess he either loves me or has a geriatric fetish, lol.

He's pretty much an old fart himself now. I'll probably have to fix his walker before he fixes mine, hehe.

Hey SG,

Your concerns are certainly legit and well founded in rational consideration. My observation is that love lies somewhere inbetween logic/common sense and taking a risk and being incredibly vulnerable. That's what I always vascillate between anyway...and it's very difficult to weigh that out.

We always think people change the most in their 20's, but honestly, I've changed the most in my early 50's...now 55. I'm the most solid and settled I've ever been, the most accomplished professionally, a much better friend to those I love, a better mother and afforded the opportunity to be a wonderful grandmother. I'm less curious, but more relaxed. I'm less physically fit, but rarely sick (I know, weird, right?) Point being, someone who fell in love with me in 1970 got a very different girl than 2005. Which contradicts the fact that people don't change that much. And I agree with that. My basic personality hasn't. But how I approach the world and interact with it has changed tremendously.

I think that I would not even consider a 20-something again. It's not that I might not think someone's not a great person, or that they're not worthy. But I know that I've spent enough time there with 3 people, one in depth, to know that I'm far more interested now in someone on more equal footing. Someone who can give back to me as much as I'm able to give. I don't believe a 20-something person is equipped to do that, unless they are VERY special indeed. And I do believe that they're out there, and some of them are certainly here. But I also think the odds are stacked way against it.

So I agree with others to go with the flow. I also seem to consistantly attract younger men. It's uncanny. I say keep your eyes open and your rational mind engaged. You sound like you're ready for something solid, and your previous experience was enough to blow anybody's mind for a few months. I bet, in retrospect, there were a few signs along that way that things were not quite what they seemed had you been a bit more conscious and less, hmmm, hopeful? It's nice to believe in love. But it's good to be smart too.

Love, Kat

DanE: Thank you for posting one of your thoughtful messages to this thread. I am, in fact, interested in someone in his early 20s. We seem to be a very good match, age aside, and the age difference doesn't phase him a bit. "I" am the one that comments on it; he pretty nearly never does.

Bubbs: You and Phil will just need to get a tandem walker or wheelchair. :p

Kat: You make a very good point. I agree, I always remember my 20s as a time of change. I changed SO much in my late 20s, and went through a huge emotional growth spurt. However, now that you mention it, I've continued to change over the years, and at some times more than others. Heck, I'm going through a growth spurt right now!

I hear you, about whether a person in their 20s is capable of reciprocating. True, they may just be learning how to do so but maybe they can. And even though my last relationship knocked me for a loop (to say the least), I learned relationship 'things' from that experience. One being that the ways that I've learned to communicate and reciprocate in the past are not going to be appropriate for every future relationship (age aside). So, I continue to learn new things about communication/reciprocation, myself.

I do agree, though, that most 20-somethings may not be able to provide what you and I are wanting/needing/looking for at our ages. It would take a very special 20-something YM to do this.

I too feel that what ever happens in the relationship I am in now with my YW it has benefited me in so many ways. I look back to when I was 18 ( calis's age) and I did not have a clue as to who I was, where I was headed or why anything. Now at 50 I feel so much more complete as a human being and a person. I have added titles, Mr., Dad, EX, and now Yogi (cali's calls me that). Life is full of new beginnings and its up to us to grab onto them and appreciate them for what they are and what they provide us. Life is not "all about us" its about sharing the human experience with those we love. Is not easy finding somebody you can say "I Love You" too. I say if you find that hold onto it as long as you can, life is too short and love to precious to pass it by.

I too feel that what ever happens in the relationship I am in now with my YW it has benefited me in so many ways. I look back to when I was 18 ( calis's age) and I did not have a clue as to who I was, where I was headed or why anything. Now at 50 I feel so much more complete as a human being and a person. I have added titles, Mr., Dad, EX, and now Yogi (cali's calls me that). Life is full of new beginnings and its up to us to grab onto them and appreciate them for what they are and what they provide us. Life is not "all about us" its about sharing the human experience with those we love. Is not easy finding somebody you can say "I Love You" too. I say if you find that hold onto it as long as you can, life is too short and love to precious to pass it by.


Ah, Padre, this was very good, and it hit home because I like to think that I don't go through life singing the Me, Me, Me song. When it is implied or pointed out that maybe I'm singing that song, I tend to snap to attention. (Not that you're really saying that I am...but your words are a sort of 'alert' to evaluate which song I'm singing. :) )

And you are on the mark about how hard it is to find someone to say I love you to, in this sense of the word. (I tell my girl friends I love them and some of my relatives but that is a different kind of love.)

Padre, I hope things are going well with Cali. I've tried to keep up with your situation a bit, since we chatted briefly in the chat room several weeks ago.

It's hard sometimes, though. Very hard to keep putting one's heart on the line.

It is but you'll never know love unless you take that chance - crazy, innit?

I think it's interesting that people say we're not the same as we were in our 20s. Truth is, I pretty much am the same as I ever was. Sure, I've grown in maturity (and girth! :p ) but I'm still pretty much me only with more self confidence. If I'd adored someone when I was 25 and found that magical combination where that feeling was reciprocated, I think I'd still be with that person today. All I have ever wanted from a relationship was to feel that I am a treasure and to feel safe. That's pretty much it.

So it took me another 20 years to find it -- and with a significantly younger man to boot -- ain't that a kick in the pants? I love it!

I don't know if this post belongs here or elsewhere. 2005 has been a year of incredible change for me. I left an unhappy, long term marriage and fell in love with someone half my age who lives 1200 miles away. This new relationship has done more for my personal well being than any one will ever know. I spend a lot of time wondering and yes, worrying about where this new love is headed. But, last week I had a moment of clarity and I would like to share. It occurred to me that no matter how this ends up, what I have accomplished this year with this incredible YM's support, is greater than any pain I will ever suffer because of this relationship. To worry about whether this will end in marriage or a "long term" situation, devalues what we have shared.

As we go through life we become socialized to believe that marriage and motherhood are the ultimate successes in life. Ended marriages are seen as failures. It can't be love if it doesn't stand the test of time. This week it hit me full in the face.....HOGWASH! ALL HOGWASH!! What I have experienced in the last year surpasses anything I could have imagined. Anyway you slice it, this relationship is a success! It will ALWAYS be a success, even if it ends. Why? Because we have shared, connected supported each other in the most honest and intimate ways possible: truly mind, body and soul. Just to have found each other and to have been able to sift through the fantasy of an online game to know that we had encountered someone incredibly special, is in my mind nothing short of a miracle. If not a miracle, then its a least a testimony to our honesty with each other and skill at communication.

Anyway, in 2006 I vow not to worry about how long this lasts. I suspect we have years ahead of us. But "long term" or "short term", this relationship is a success!!

I totally agree with Rozie. I live for today with as little expectation for tomorrow as possible because there is no guarantee that someone will love you forever.

Quote from Desert Spring: So I vote for following your heart, hoping for the best and trying to prepare for the worst. I haven't found any other way to go.

Yup! That pretty well sums up my feeling about it. Consequently, I have decided that I will never marry. I am happier than I have ever been in my life. I don't need a man to complete me. I do need companionship now and then, and I have that in my boyfriend. He is just a phone call away, and I know he loves me. Our relationship has now lasted over 10 years, so something must be right. I don't think it would have lasted this long had we married.