Still Frustrated

Q: Do other young males (he is very young so i'm not sure it's only an age gap issue but possibly because he is such a young man) dating other older women have a hard time committing or expressing enjoyment, happiness or even love?

Q: How can an older woman (who hasn't even been in the dating scene since her teens) know how she feels about someone so young? What i feel towards my friend is so different, but i think it is similar. I guess i'm just masking all feelings in guilt because i may be innappropriately invovled with a teenager. I know it is not only lust, but i don't know that this is familiar.

Q: Does it seem typical that a younger man refuses to comitt to an older woman incase they meet someone else their own age?

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Background update (i posted an intro 2-3 weeks ago)
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why should i even be worried about labeling my relationship? i don't need to be identified or validated entirely by it, but i just want to know something more about what is going on between my friend (19) and me (30).

i'm not sure that it's even age that makes a main difference, although i always assumed that because of his age he would not be interested in anything serious, committed or even long-term.

but for 8 weeks he has slept over every night. he first "moved" in some toys, then some clothes, now a big-screen tv and surround sound. he's talking about buying a new couch for (as he says) "our apartment". i've had dinner with his dad and babysat for his infant sister. we went away for the weekend to visit his mom. his sister (21) comes to visit a few times a month. his brother (18) and i are also friendly. everyone who knows us knows we're intimate and they all think that i'm infatuated (stupidly, setting myself up for a huge let down) with him. some of his friends/family tell me that he obviously is my boyfriend by his choices to be with me. but he never makes any outward indication that he and I are a couple, especially when someone is around. but even alone, we do not share any "space". last night was the first time ever we sat on a couch side by side with our thighs touching. he has never reached out to take my hand or touch me. well, he seems that he's making little guestures lately (last week or so).

but, up until last weekend we had never shared a bed. we have regular/frequent sex but he never carresses, kisses, holds or sleeps with me. he is out of the area before i can roll over. last weekend his mother set us up in her other son's room as a couple. chris did not correct her. but i didn't want to put myself in a position to be in bed with him unless he invited me (considering). he finally did - after i fell asleep on the couch for several hours. he even rolled up to me and held me so nicely that i felt like i was swooning. he slept with me that whole weekend and then when we got back home he tried it in my bed. but he ended up reverting back to the sofa, where he has slept over since mid-September. we also bought a truck together, mainly because of his lack of credit.

i cook for us, shop for us, clean and do laundry for us. he takes out the trash and moves/fixes things. he is entirely attentive, always checking on me to see if i'm ok or need help. he is always trying to encourage me and talk with me about things. he's a great listener. he has such an amazingly smart and mature outlook on most things of life, as well as being compatible with my ideals. he is so devastatingly handsome and young that i'm mesmorized by him at times. i feel so lucky and so strange all at the same time. i feel like it is the style of a relationship. but i don't know why he doesn't talk about it with me or why he pretends that we are not dating. we are, aren't we.

i've tried to speak with him about this several times in the last week or so and all he can offer is that he just doesn't know and doesn't know how to label things eithier. he always just says, "i'm happy, are you happy"? But last night he told me that he believes that there is a counter-mate (male/female spirt separated) to everyone and he thinks that we are a match in that respect.

You know, I can't tell you what you should or shouldn't do or what the nature of your relationship with this guy is...

... I can share with you my experiences and what I would and would not tolerate myself.

Litical has been my boyfriend since early 2004, not long after my husband left me. We had been friends before this. He was 18 1/2 at the time. There was never, at any juncture, for HIM, any wishy-washyness about me. He has always been extremely open about his desires, goals, wishes, and most importantly, his feelings for me. For many months in the beginning, despite his words to the contrary, I thought I would be a fleeting thing in his life and he would "outgrow" me or bore of me of whatever. Nearly 2 years later, we are living together, raising my two kids together and still going strong.

I know that nothing would have ever happened with Litical had HE not been the kind of man that he is... persistent and constantly reassuring of me.

Why would you help this YM buy a truck? I presume you co-signed? Please tell me you didn't do that. This guy is TIED to you and INDEBTED to you and is NOT treating you like you should be treated. It is as if you are there for him to screw and there to provide for him, but what are YOU getting? Nothing.

There is something seriously wrong here... and that's in you letting yourself be used. If Litical had ever said to me he was "unsure" of us or what to think of our relationship, we would NOT be together and I would NOT be supporting him.

IF it were me, hon (and I fully note, you are NOT me), I would tell him to go home until he figured out what he wanted. YOU must be more than a doormat and someone's free lay. If you're still here 3 weeks later trying to figure out WHAT you are to him and even think in the deepest recesses of your mind (and it seems you do question this) that he is USING you, chances are... he is.

I'd send him on his merry way to figure out what the hell he wants... because you're still VERY young and capable of being with a man who makes you feel like a goddess, instead of ... whatever it is he's making you feel like... second best?

~phos

Why would you help this YM buy a truck? I presume you co-signed? Please tell me you didn't do that. This guy is TIED to you and INDEBTED to you and is NOT treating you like you should be treated. It is as if you are there for him to screw and there to provide for him, but what are YOU getting? Nothing.

yes, i did end up signing on an auto loan for him. i know, i know...i just wanted to see him happy and get back and forth to his new job and school.

If you're still here 3 weeks later trying to figure out WHAT you are to him and even think in the deepest recesses of your mind (and it seems you do question this) that he is USING you, chances are... he is.

yes, in the back of my mind i worry he is using me but mostly because i've been used before. he is actually more kind to me than most people i've ever known.


I'd send him on his merry way to figure out what the hell he wants... because you're still VERY young and capable of being with a man who makes you feel like a goddess, instead of ... whatever it is he's making you feel like... second best?

yes, second best. or even not good enough to admit to caring for me. but i'm fragile and sensitive anyway. it's just so hard to know when i'm allowed to be close to him or touch him.

If he loved you... REALLY loved you... it wouldn't be hard for him to express it. And I don't think you should settle for anything LESS than to be truly loved and appreciated.

I don't honestly know what you should do about the truck, cuz I gotta BAD feeling about it and you might end up in a world of financial trouble if you tell him to move out and he opts to not pay (which could very well happen).

But, I think you're walking on eggshells in YOUR home and that's really, really sad. This guy should be pursuing you like you are the most important person on earth. He's not.

Honestly, I'd tell him to go home and only come back if he KNOWS what he wants, as you're not willing to accept less. Your AGR is NOT that big (ours is 13.5 years) and you are only 30!!! Believe me, you CAN do better.

I would stop letting him use you. Starting now.
~phos

So,when he says, "I'm happy, are you happy?" what do you answer? You don't sound too happy to me.

His actions just creep me out. I would never tolerate that. My YM is EXTREMELY affectionate, loving and intimate and he also pulls his weight around the house & financially. He hates to be away from me and holds me as he falls asleep. He text messages me loving notes all through the day. I couldn't imagine him acting the way your guy does.

So, in a word, NO. It is NOT normal nor typical of YM!

[FONT=Garamond]

Q: Does it seem typical that a younger man refuses to comitt to an older woman incase they meet someone else their own age?


No, this is not typical and this is why I love this board. It reminds me of things that I should discuss with my YM and we actually discussed this very topic last week to which he replied that I should never feel like a passing fancy. That I was the forefront for him, that I was the only woman he considered as a future and that he likes to think of us ending up together for the long-term.

Now, I should clarify that we are on opposite sides of the world and we've been together on and off for 1 1/2 years. (2 in May) He is always affectionate and the last time we were together in real time it was like he was permanently attached to my side, which I adored.

I don't know if your YM just has emotional issues or a mental block, but I'm curious if he's acted like this with his past girlfriends. I personally, could not stand the lack of affection, it would drive me insane. It's one of the things that gives me comfort in my long distance relationship. (Trust me, words of affection are just as powerful :p )

All I know is that you aren't happy and you need to get this entire mess straightened out before it eats you alive. Force him to talk and force yourself to ask the difficult questions. You may not get the answers you want, but if he's going to be in a mature relationship then he's going to have to step up to the plate and be mature. A huge part of a relationship is communication and you two are seriously lacking in this department.

Will he squirm and act uncomfortable when you ask him questions? Yes, most likely he will. For the most part men are not grand communicators when it comes to their emotions and feelings although I feel Kristin and Fos have exceptions. At first my YM had difficulty with it, but now, he's old hat at it. :) I just had to train him. ;) And please, no one comment on that like I think men should be trained, but young men are not as experienced in relationships and they are still learning. If older men cannot handle communication and know what we want then how are younger men going to if we don't share it with him.

Share! And good luck.

If he loved you... REALLY loved you... it wouldn't be hard for him to express it. And I don't think you should settle for anything LESS than to be truly loved and appreciated.


I'm not so sure about that...

Reading what the OP said, it sounded to me like he was caring and affectionate in every other ways, but just not physically. It's like he doesn't know how to be physically affectionate, or he's scared of it. This is a prime example:

"he slept with me that whole weekend and then when we got back home he tried it in my bed. but he ended up reverting back to the sofa, where he has slept over since mid-September."

When you stayed with his parents, what was their relationship like? Did they spend much time around each other and were they affectionate with each other? How did they treat him? Were they distant with him, or did they seem close?

There could be many reasons for him not being physically affectionate. One is that he just doesn't really like you as much as you (or even he) think. Other reasons are that he has a problem with it. It could be something that comes from experiencing his parents relationship. You pick up soooooooooo much from your parents, so if they act like that around each other, it sets him up for thinking that is how a relationship should be. Or just bad experiences in the past might have had an impact on him. He could even have been abused or something.

Whatever it is, you need to talk to him. I could not imagine being in a relationship where I couldn't be physically affectionate, I think I would go insane! He needs to know that this does bother you, it's not a matter about him being at fault either, you might need to stress that to him.

I don't honestly know what you should do about the truck, cuz I gotta BAD feeling about it and you might end up in a world of financial trouble if you tell him to move out and he opts to not pay (which could very well happen).

I'm even slightly worried about the financial bond. But, he's working a really great job which is also paying him very well, so i think it will be ok. we agreed by contract that he would refinance not later than 6 months from date of purchase into his name alone or i would have first option to buy at kbb private sale value.

Honestly, I'd tell him to go home and only come back if he KNOWS what he wants, as you're not willing to accept less. Your AGR is NOT that big (ours is 13.5 years) and you are only 30!!! Believe me, you CAN do better.

I'm not sure i can do much better, which is honestly a great deal of the problem. I'm chubby and have a ton of baggage from my divorce. I was a victim of domestic violence for many years by many partners and i don't know how to respond to this sort of "normal" relationship without verbal or physical abuse. I often want to cry just because it's easier to know that someone hates you than to know that they're indifferent.

I'm likely to take what i can get and not make waves because honestly i'm not looking to remarry but to enjoy him. The problem is that i'm not certain that he is enjoying me.

I don't want to seem like i was forcing him to make some sort of decision when really i'm not sure i need a ring or a announcment that he is my man. I just want to make sure that he's not using me financially and sexually, and a good part of my worry is based on past bad experiences and current paranoia.

I adore him and he has never ever been rude or condescending or even anything less than gentlemanly. He opens doors, retrieves things that i'm looking for without me even asking, takes me out to have fun and relax, helps me in every way he can. I don't need him to say to me, "i love you"; but, It would be nice for him to say something to me. Or to reach for me. Or even better, I'd like to be able to reach out to him without the fear that i'm not supposed to be so-and-so might see or i might be assuming some sort of relationship that doesn't exist.



I guess i am having personal difficulties that are only slightly compounded by this new sort of relationship i'm having with him. It tends to emphasize my fears a little. And, it is just really strange to feel so easily happy and connected to someone, who seems to be returning it to me in some sort of balanced, but not be sure if you're able to rise above the situational problems and really connect.

So,when he says, "I'm happy, are you happy?" what do you answer? You don't sound too happy to me.

I tell him that i care for him very much and that he has contributed to me being happy. I have my moments, of course, but for the most part my life has been incredibly more fulfilling in the last 3 months than in the last 3 years. Infact the only problem at all is with my head in its attempt to figure out our relationship. People ask all the time is this your boyfriend, or how old are you (of me, to him) and his typical response is to be very private and evasive and not answer direclty.

So, in a word, NO. It is NOT normal nor typical of YM!

I was thinking that it was a remote possibility that he behaves so distant from what i'm used to in an affectionate relatinship is because he is young.

living with somebody for the first time takes a lot of adjusting at any age, nevermind when you are only 18.
you don't know how to act.
don't you remember what you were like the first time you lived with someone?
maybe he is insecure too, thinking you would never stay with someone so young?
and I would never worry about the age difference, it is nothing and you are still so young. if you stay together and he is 20, you 30, no big deal, him 30 and you 40 still not a big gap and so on. It's not a big difference at all.
you know what guys his age think about women your age?
Let's just say all his friends are probably extremely green with envy...
I would tell him to define you relationship as he sees today so that he and you can live your life, go on with your life, or whatever. if he decides it is just something casual, let's see how he reacts if you go out on a date with someone else.
that ought to be a fire underneath his arse!
good luck
Ruthann

Me again
the people that physically abused you, didn't hate you.
they wouldn't have stayed around if they did.
they are just sick individuals and now you need to learn
how to deal with someone who is not dysfunctional.
I am so not giving advice on this because I have been through
the same thing myself.
YOU do deserve to be happy.
YOU are worth it.
And YOU can get better if you think there is better out there.
you can go to a local women resource center for counseling
because people like you and I push away people like this from
our lives. Go talk to someone professional.
I am going out with someone younger also but I was with someone
before who I am always on the verge of going back to.
It's a more comfortable feeling to be with the ex than this one and
I know I need counseling to find out why.
It's like without all the drama, it doesn't seem like a relationship for me.
because the guy that I am with takes things more slowly, doesn't like
to fight, is very calm, very NORMAL.
it's a really new for me!
i agian, wish you the best of luck.
hugs
Ruthy

I don't know if your YM just has emotional issues or a mental block, but I'm curious if he's acted like this with his past girlfriends.

Actually, i'm not sure how his relationship with his ex is. Strained...strange (to me). They have a 2 year old together and all contact is pretty much through his former MIL. Infact, most all of his friends are several years older than he is. He doesn't really have many under 21 friends.

Will he squirm and act uncomfortable when you ask him questions? Yes, most likely he will.

No, not really. He just doesn't bring it up and neither do I. If i ask him to talk with me about something, he has never shyed away from communication with me before. I just guess i'm afraid of his answers? And i really hate the non-commital stuff when I feel that he and I have at least a shot at being happy together.

If you hate the non-commital stuff, say so! Speak up! It doesn't sound like he will either shy away or fight with you. You NEED to know these answers or you wouldn't be asking an anonymous board for help to figure him out.

He's got the answers.

If you need more, you need to tell him you need more. If he backs away, you have your answer. All relationships are about communication and how you two communicate with each other. All the guessing in the world on the part of a million strangers won't bring you one step closer to understanding how HE thinks. Only he will be able to answer those questions.

Ask.

Maybe Rob's right. Maybe he just isn't hardwired to understand affection. I, personally, cannot live without it. I would go completely insane.

I'm sure he's confused, too.

Don't you think its time you two sat down and hashed all this out? He's living with you, so its not like you don't have the opportunity!!

And I just have to throw in here... you should go check out both the OW/YM Sexually Speaking forum and the Discussions forums for a couple threads by Harrison on how many guys feel about the plump ladies. Might just bring a big ole smile to your face... ;)
~phos

Reading what the OP said, it sounded to me like he was caring and affectionate in every other ways, but just not physically. It's like he doesn't know how to be physically affectionate, or he's scared of it.

Sometimes i rationalize that he is scared or shy of relationships because of how strange his relationship with his ex and his daughter is. And other times i feel that he doesn't assert himself to me or to others because he is so young and inexperienced. He values my experience and tells me so. He asks me for advice and even follows it or counters it with reflection. He is very respectful of me in every way. He has just never held my hand or stroked my skin. He has never kissed me goodbye or hello. He has never called me just to say that he was thinking of me or missing me.

When you stayed with his parents, what was their relationship like? Did they spend much time around each other and were they affectionate with each other? How did they treat him? Were they distant with him, or did they seem close?

His dad and step-mom live nearby and we see them often. Infact, I knew them for several months before Chris arrived to town where he had lived with his mom and step-dad for all of his life. Both sets seem very affectionate and endearing.

There could be many reasons for him not being physically affectionate. One is that he just doesn't really like you as much as you (or even he) think. Other reasons are that he has a problem with it. It could be something that comes from experiencing his parents relationship. You pick up soooooooooo much from your parents, so if they act like that around each other, it sets him up for thinking that is how a relationship should be. Or just bad experiences in the past might have had an impact on him. He could even have been abused or something.

Ya know, my main thought is that he really doens't like me as much as i think he does (or would like him to). And i worry that he humors me as much as he can until he can get out and find something better. But that also makes me feel guilt for doubting his character which is honestly very strong compared to most people i've known (regardless of age).

And, just as a side-point, his sister insists that her step-dad molested her for years and last night mentioned to him that he was invovled and he denied it. He has told me in an aside that he thinks his sister has issues and he is not sure if any of her statements are true.

It's a more comfortable feeling to be with the ex than this one and
I know I need counseling to find out why.
It's like without all the drama, it doesn't seem like a relationship for me.
because the guy that I am with takes things more slowly, doesn't like
to fight, is very calm, very NORMAL.
it's a really new for me!

Sad, but true. I'm so familiar with the bad that when there isn't any bad it doesn't seem real or true. So basically i'm going to run normal people off because i'm not sure they care about me enough to hate me or hurt me. Nice life i'm going to have.

don't worry
you are going to have a nice life.
you just have to retrain yourself.
build your self esteem!!
so important.
the more self esteem you have, the more
attractive you will be.
just know, that you are awesome!!
hugs
Ruthy

Sad, but true. I'm so familiar with the bad that when there isn't any bad it doesn't seem real or true. So basically i'm going to run normal people off because i'm not sure they care about me enough to hate me or hurt me. Nice life i'm going to have.

OK, I don't know how to put this delicately, so I'll just put it out there - what is the sex like? Does he stroke you or kiss you then? How does sex get initiated? How often?

Has he ever offered ANY explaination for sleeping apart at ALL? I mean, even my 15 year old son would know that just isn't normal for a couple.

Also, continue to think of yourself as unworthy and you'll always be treated as a doormat. I'm 50 lbs overweight (quite chubby IMO) and I still "got" my YM. Just because you are chubby doesn't mean you have to settle. Ultimately, I think you'll tire of the insecurity his lack of affection causes. You AREN'T happy or you wouldn't be here. Quit making excuses.

BTW - my ym said it sounds like he is using you until something better comes along and all the politeness is to keep you from giving him the boot.

Sad, but true. I'm so familiar with the bad that when there isn't any bad it doesn't seem real or true. So basically i'm going to run normal people off because i'm not sure they care about me enough to hate me or hurt me. Nice life i'm going to have.


:( I know..sad isn't it? You need to fight this urge..or better yet...get some help dealing with it...I suffer with this type of anxiety as well...so can definitely relate. :)

He has just never held my hand or stroked my skin. He has never kissed me goodbye or hello. He has never called me just to say that he was thinking of me or missing me. Regardless of timing on commitment, you really should have a talk with him about the lack of affection. Just say something like: I really like you and enjoy being with you. I want to see if you can meet some of my DESIRES by kissing me when you leave and come home. I would like it if we could each come up to each other and give the other a hug, a couple of times a day. Is this okay with you?"

If he says yes, then give him a hug and a kiss. If he says 'no' then listen and decide if you really want to go through the world of hurt he might have in store for you. Don't let him try to make you WRONG for wanting these things. It is no more wrong than him wanting sex.

After he says 'ok' with hugs/kisses, then wait 2 or 3 weeks and say the same thing again, except ask for a little more in the foreplay department. You can even take the lead and make 'love' to him! ;) But don't overwhelm with your desires. Just take it a few at a time and build from there.

NOW ON ANOTHER TANGENT!!! What is this about????? And, just as a side-point, his sister insists that her step-dad molested her for years and last night mentioned to him that he was involved and he denied it. Is she saying the step-dad molested your YM? She is not saying that your YM molested her is she? :confused:

He has just never held my hand or stroked my skin. He has never kissed me goodbye or hello. He has never called me just to say that he was thinking of me or missing me.


This is so sad, and something that would alone be a deal-breaker for me personally. Every woman wants to feel cherished and adored...that's what affection-that-doesn't-neccessarily-lead-to-sex is so important for. I'm sorry you're not getting what you want or need.

I also agree with phos about the truck and other ways you have already allowed him to benefit from his relationship with you:
1. a truck you co-signed for
2. a roof over his head with you
3. sex with you without the affection attached that you need

19 is very young. You're right, he is a teenager...the word "teen" comes from the root "between"...he is between childhood and manhood. Some at 19 are farther along, and others are self focused and more immature. Unfortunately it sounds like your ym may be in the second camp. I strongly urge you to detach financially and living-situation wise from him ASAP...you are seeing red flags waving; trust your gut and don't invest any more in him at this point.

People are often so quick to move in together these days. :( ..before they have had the chance to truly KNOW someone. The problem with living together so soon (like before a year of being with the person and going through all the stages of an early relationship with them to know who they truly are) is that often, when things start to sour, you are twice as invested (financially, emotionally, etc.) than if you had just kept separate lives while you grew your love together. Big mistake...bigger heart ache in the long run. And, when you live with someone, it's harder to be objective about their behavior because YOU ALREADY LIVE TOGETHER and denial is easier to deal with rather than face the fact that you may have allowed someone to LIVE with you who falls SO short of your standards/wants/ needs. Feeling stuck is not good.

Try to back peddle the best you can, and get your independence back until/only if he steps up to the plate in the ways you need him to.

People are often so quick to move in together these days. I totally agree with you, SK. If she is able to emotionally separate, what you suggest that she do is perfect. It just sounds like, to me, that she is too invested (or needy) to do that, without trying to get more of her needs met. I may be wrong, but I don't think she has even asked for what she wants yet (I may need to go back and read again).

I look back on some of the behavior that I tolerated because I was so starved emotionally and I just want to cry. Why do women sell themselves so short, so consistently? I see it all around me. :(

Why do women sell themselves so short, so consistently? I see it all around me. :(

Because we live in a culture that devalues every aspect of us except our sexuality. It is the first thing turned to when a female grows up without having been treated like she has anything else to offer.

Well, it's not *our* sexuality that is even valued, it's how well we conform to men's fantasies about us that is worshiped. That is the sad and unvarnished truth of it, even in the most advanced of today's societies.

One has to be a very strong woman to say that those are bogus "values" and hold out for a life that has more meaning than what society wants to allow us. There is so much pressure to just be another...ho ho ho. :p

Well, it's not *our* sexuality that is even valued, it's how well we conform to men's fantasies about us that is worshiped Isn't that the truth!

What is also a crock, women are taught if they are NICE and all that is cracked up to be, they will have the love of their life. This poor woman is accepting dehumanizing treatment because he is sometimes kind to her. :(

Yep yr. It's heartbreaking. I wish women would just wake up and trot out the old "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" Unfortunately a lot of this settling behavior is baked in during childhood, encouraged by the entire environment.

I can say from experience that a healthy sense of outrage in a little girl *can* help defend against the BS we are served. But far too many just end up accepting the short end of the stick. :(

Yep yr. It's heartbreaking. I wish women would just wake up and trot out the old "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" Unfortunately a lot of this settling behavior is baked in during childhood, encouraged by the entire environment.

I can say from experience that a healthy sense of outrage in a little girl *can* help defend against the BS we are served. But far too many just end up accepting the short end of the stick. :(

I agree, however, not completely. Even if you're mad as hell and can't take it anymore (or won't) you must still be rational and handle things in an "adult like" manner. Personally, I don't settle...but I also know the "right" and the "wrong" way to handle things....

I agree, however, not completely. Even if you're mad as hell and can't take it anymore (or won't) you must still be rational and handle things in an "adult like" manner. Personally, I don't settle...but I also know the "right" and the "wrong" way to handle things....

Oh come on kathy. I didn't mean it LITERALLY. That's a quote from an old movie.

I'm saying that women have a right to be angry that we're expected to accept the ill treatment so many hand us, and that we should hold out for better.

women have a right to be angry that we're expected to accept the ill treatment so many hand us, and that we should hold out for better. Amen!
We so often get stuck in either denial or being hurt that they did this to us. Then we think the mistreatment must be because we did something wrong. So we try to fix ourselves so he will change and treat us better.

The best emotion to help us take care of oneself is ANGER. Anger is an ENERGY emotion. Take that energy and set a boundary. Take that energy and move out if he is abusive. Take that energy and stand up for yourself.

Muddling in self pity never changes anything, but getting angry and saying "That's it. I am done with this type of mistreatment. You either change or I am history." will serve you long and well. :cool:

OK, I don't know how to put this delicately, so I'll just put it out there - what is the sex like? Does he stroke you or kiss you then? How does sex get initiated? How often?

Has he ever offered ANY explaination for sleeping apart at ALL? I mean, even my 15 year old son would know that just isn't normal for a couple.

Also, continue to think of yourself as unworthy and you'll always be treated as a doormat. I'm 50 lbs overweight (quite chubby IMO) and I still "got" my YM. Just because you are chubby doesn't mean you have to settle. Ultimately, I think you'll tire of the insecurity his lack of affection causes. You AREN'T happy or you wouldn't be here. Quit making excuses.

BTW - my ym said it sounds like he is using you until something better comes along and all the politeness is to keep you from giving him the boot.


I have horrible issues with your YMs opinion because it is deep-seeded in my mind that all of this is just a show. The sad part is that i'd still do it even if he were more honest and didn't try to "fluff" me. I don't need that.

Anyway, to answer your questions, the sex is very good. He is very well proportioned and although he has only been with 3 others he is a quick study and very good at responding. I am becoming more and more eager and relaxed and we often have new experiences (for him) which is very erotic to me.

He is not touchy/feely during sex. And for the most part (i'd say 85%) he initiates - i don't because i do not want to be turned down. I have approached him in some ways at some times, but not often.

As far as sleeping apart, he says he just doen't like sleeping with anyone. But another of his girlfriends reports that he used to sleep with her (although their "relationship" was very very brief at only 2-3 weeks).

I think i have figured everything out about him and about our situation, though. With lots of insight from everyone on this site. I appreciate it.

He doesn't even really care about me, he only is putting up with me and giving it up to me to buy time until he can either get along in life the old fashioned way (to "earn" it) or until someone else with a bigger place/more money/better "benefits" comes along. He has demonstrated this by absolutely refusing to work more hours or pick up a second job (he works about 18 hrs a week after being out of work for about 4 weeks) and has basically stuck me with his truck (that we bought together). He owes me nearly 1K and i have begged and pleaded and he doesn't give a sh!t. So, i suppose i got screwed. Nice, eh?

And the worst part...when i call him out he defends himself to the max and actually acts hurt that i distrust him or have lost faith in him. WTF?!

NOW ON ANOTHER TANGENT!!! What is this about????? Is she saying the step-dad molested your YM? She is not saying that your YM molested her is she? :confused:

I'm also confused. What i took it to mean was that he was either also molested or that he was made to be aware of it (years ago). He has denied that there was any molestation and the entire family (aside from the natural father) says that the sister is the one with problems.

I've never heard of that and thought it was weird.

I look back on some of the behavior that I tolerated because I was so starved emotionally and I just want to cry. Why do women sell themselves so short, so consistently? I see it all around me. :(

I know it's pathetic but i just want to be appreciated and respected. Then maybe loved and cherished. I don't ask for it and don't even expect it because that just leads to rejection and dissapointment.

The part that bugs me is that it seems so easy to care about someone. To feel their needs and be responsive. To just treat someone with compassion and kindness, recognizing their love for you, enabling you to respond in turn. To not do this seems like it would be forcing an unatural reaction.

Well, it's not *our* sexuality that is even valued, it's how well we conform to men's fantasies about us that is worshiped. That is the sad and unvarnished truth of it, even in the most advanced of today's societies.
:p

And i don't think it even matters how we conform. Because i've been my partner's everything he asks for in bed. I've done things in bed i'm not even entirely comfortable with. And i still get tossed around. I know they don't want me or keep me for the other reasons, but i don't understand why they toss me when i'm giving everything they ask for in bed...especially when they always seem to complain that their others girls do not.

Chaos, you have admitted the guy is using you!!!!! What are you waiting for to tell him to get out of your home? Please be strong tell him to get the H*** out of your place, and do it right away!!!!

You seem so insecured of who you are..... Please seek therapy, the years of abuse has really taken a toll on you. I bet there is a women's center near you where you can go and get therapy, and most likely its free or very cheap... But even if it cost you lots of money, please spend it on yourself and not on your YM. If you do not get couseling you will never get out of the battered women's syndrome and you will be repeating your history over and over again....

DO IT NOW!

Wishing the best luck and be strong, little steps will get you far but you just need to start walking the path of valuing yourself.