A kind ear to listen to my rant, and sadly - pain

Hi everyone,

this is the very first time I have ever posted in one of these forums. I was doing a search the other day about how long one should wait before calling a woman after having been given her phone number, and quite frankly the best advice was right here, in this particular category of the forum - you would not believe the standard garbage I read elsewhere. Why was I searching for this? Please read on and all shall be revealed.

1). I am a 37 year old single male.
2). I am fit, I dress well (when I go out its usually dark suits and shirts or T-Shirts - thats me - thats my style)
3). Shoes polished, ALWAYS, nails cut, hands clean, hair (brown) always clean and styled
4). One of my ex's said that I reminded her of a young Roger Moore, so I guess I am "reasonably easy" on the eyes of a woman. Some women have even used the "G" word, although I reckon they were just "buttering" me up so to speak.
5). Always behave like a Gentleman - ALWAYS.

The problemo, I am incredibly shy until I get to know people. So shy that I can tell you I have always been the one picked up by a woman - and I have done OK in this department over the years. This makes things somewhat easy, in terms of I have no problems calling her the next day, etc, etc, because I know she has already made a serious move on me. Sadly, these relationships tend to last at most for about a year, and in the last three years I have been involved with women in intense relationships - but ended in disaster.

Also, my years of acquiring grad degrees, and working overseas have indeed taken their toll - as I have only really become serious about long-term relationships and settling down - in the last 5 years or so.

I believe my extraordinary initial shyness stems from rejections received from women earlier in my life - when I was a scruffy looking student.

Anyway, in order to reduce this from "War and Peace" to a short story I shall describe the most recent proceedings.

1). Saturday night, I meet this beautiful 31 or 33 year old lady - Lets call her Ms. X - (I am sure I heard her say 31 at first and 33 later??? I don't know).
2). She is at this bar with a rather "dodgy" younger girlfriend of hers.
3). She asks me for a "light".
4). She starts chatting to me.
5). Things are going well, and I buy her a few drinks. She has already made the initial contact, so my shyness level has dropped remarkably - its that initial bloody hurdle that I have a problem with.
6). She has dental braces. No problem from me, just seemed rather odd that a woman this age would have braces. Actually, I thought it was rather cute.
7). She keeps making eye contact.
8). She keeps preening her hair, and exposing her neck (she is a hairdresser BTW).
9). She constantly is getting her mobile phone out of her bag - but there was never a message or call on it! Was this a message for me? Perhaps.
10). She then tells me that she only goes out on Saturday's because she is dragged out by her friend - she sometimes stays at home. Shy? Don't know, she didn't seem shy to me as she was constantly joking with the people around her.
11). Time goes by, and I am thinking that I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and ask her for her phone number, after all she has made contact with me and we were doing well.
12). So she comes back with a sad look on her face and says "I think we are going"?
13). At this point I ask her "Would you like to catch up for some drinks?"
14). She says Yes, and offers her phone number. She inputs her number into my phone.
15). It also happens that we share the same European background. I really don't care much for this, but it does play on the minds of some people.

Anyways, I'm as happy as Larry.
Of course, I have been out of practice pursuing women for the last few years. So what am I to do next?

I knew I shouldn't call her on Sunday (the next day) - although in the previous thread many here suggested that this would not necessarily be a bad idea.

Instead, genious here decides to SMS her (nice one McFly!) - thinking I have acknowledged the fact that she has given me her number, and I basically said "Hi X, it was wonderful meeting you, I look forward to catching up for some drinks. I'll call you. Take care Cheers, ..."

Was this wrong? I don't know. Maybe I'm being a worry wart.

Anyway, today (Tuesday) I called her at 8pm (I gathered she'd be busy at the hairdressing Salon earlier, so I didn't want to bother her whilst she was working).

The cell phone rang out. I mean there was no voice mail. It gave that network disconnection tone after like 20 rings (I was waiting for voice mail to kick in)!

I try again at 8:15pm. This time I waited for 9 rings, I think its pretty rude to wait for more that say 10 rings, so I hung up.

I then sent an SMS asking X to either call me or SMS me advising a more appropriate time to call her.

Then Nothing!!!

1). Was she just busy and could not answer the phone, and by the time she saw these she thought it inapproriate to call after say 9pm??? Perhaps. But an SMS would have been fine. I guess I'll find out.
2). Has she just changed her mind? Maybe, why give out her number though??? And all the interaction? Ego boost?
3). Did she knowingly give me a fake cell phone number? Highly unlikely considering the circumstances but possible.
4). Did she just input a wrong number into my cell phone by mistake. More possible, but still unlikely, you'd think someomne would be careful with this - and you'd think the true owner of the number would pick up the phone and let me know that I have the wrong number, unless its one of those 'pay-as-you-go' numbers that can expire???
5). She could have lost her phone! Unlikely but possible.

The one that lingers in my mind however is this: Did I totally shag things up by sending "that" SMS? :confused:

I don't know what to think, I have had a few flings recently and quite frankly I have had enough of that sh*t, and the previous intense relationships - well I have recovered from them, but there was a lot of pain. And for the first time in years I felt like maybe she is someone special, "the one" so to speak. It was like being struck by lightning. I just felt something that I cannot explain. And this is why I am so saddened by the most recent proceedings.

Maybe I am overreacting, I don't know. I'm just sick of the whole bullsh*t, if I wanted to play games I'd get a Sony Playstation for goodness sakes.

The fact that its nearing Christmas doesn't help either.

So when I got home today, I put on the Live Eric Johnson CD, took out my Stratocaster, cranked up the amp, and played these blues lines that poured out of my heart.

I have experienced some much stress these last few days, it reminded me of when I split up from a couple of my ex's that I loved so deeply. I need to somehow control these emotions... but she has been on my mind all the time...

I shouldnt be feeling this, this is illogical, but I do. Again, maybe I'm overreacting, and I'm certainly blabbering like a fool... I'll see if I get a response tomorrow. That is the decider.

Anyway, I got a lot out of my mind and off my chest, if you have read this I thank you for puting up with this Random Rant. This has certainly been a cleansing experience, and I now have tears flowing freely down my face... :(

Time will tell...

Merry Christmas to all.

Sorry, Spongebob old boy -- you sound too good to be true to me! I ain't buying it. Nice story though -- I'll just keep it in the "fiction" section. :D

I am so sorry that you are feeling so much pain. Christmas coming up doesn't help does it? I see a couple of things going on... one is that we really set ourselves up by our EXPECTATIONS.

You would think that since A, B, C, happened, it would only follow that she would be available to set something up. However, you don't know what is really going on in her life, nor what kind of person she is. One can speculate all day on the WHYS of life but it takes us no where. All I can say is that it wasn't about who you are as a person that it hasn't panned out yet.

Also, I think you need to force yourself to feel the fear and approach women anyway. That way you are increasing your chances of success and gaining more control over who is in your life. Waiting on the right woman to approach YOU is too passive and life will pass you by, you know? If you need a therapist to walk you through or a good friend then get some assistance, but do it!

Getting dates is a numbers game for men and women. You must increase your pool of women to talk to know who is the right one that will "bite". I think the type of woman that you are best suited for will not be one that will be the aggressor, so step up to the plate and take charge in '06! I wish the best of everything and welcome to Ageless. ;)

First, Bob, I laughed at your comment about the braces. I’m 40, and I’m hoping to get braces in the next year or two, and I’ll have to wear them for about two years. It’s cool that she’s doing it; it means she cares about her appearance. Also, having braces can save your natural teeth. Okay, I’m over the braces comment. ;)

Nice post, BTW.

Breathe, Bob. :) There could be lots of reasons why you haven’t heard from her…and not all of them bad or ‘serious’.

Like Trish said, you may hear from her. But if you don’t, instead of worrying your pretty gentleman head about it too long, can you go back to the same place a couple of times and try to bump into her again. You can always approach her in a non-aggressive manner and try to read her or, better yet, see what she says up-front.

As a side note: I’m assuming that an SMS is a text message..? If so, I would recommend not sending these before you call. I’m a big believer in that the world is becoming more and more impersonal, and things like text messaging, chat, IMing, etc. relieve us all of having to actually stick out neck out and communicate! If a guy is going to text me before he calls me, I don’t like it. But that’s just me, and it doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t call him back because of it.

If you don’t hear back or see her, Bob, just let it go, hon. It was a nice encounter but there are other women out there for you. I promise. ;)

Sounds like she might think you're playing games....and not serious at this point "Bob"....might want to let her know that you actually mean what you say...you know the saying...mean what you say...and say what you mean. :cool:

Like yourself, i could never approach women, I've always been the one that's been 'picked up'. Or, something has happened when we've been friends or introduced by friends.

Going on my experience, I would say don't call her. Wait for her to call you. I've done this a couple of times before, the first time I tried to call or set up a date she was 'too busy', then she just stopped answering the phone or replying to text messages. I won't ever do that again. From my point of view, you've now tried to set up a further date, and it's up to her to get back to you about it. If she doesn't, then it's her loss. If she can't make the effort to phone you back, then is she really that interested?

For the record, I don't think you have to leave phoning someone you've just met for over a day. If they're really interested, then they won't mind you calling the next day, I'm sure they'd actually be glad to hear from you.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I didn't get much sleep yesterday. I'm just about to jump on the treadmill to get my head together for work.
I need to clear my head today, and as the day progresses more should be revealed.

Indeed, an SMS is a text message. I wasn't trying to play games, it was simply a friendly reminder that I will call her soon - and I will follow up my request for catching up for some drinks, and she now had my number (i.e. she could tell who is calling). I did just that 2 days later (i.e. yesterday). I didn't think at the time that this was wrong, but the consensus appears to be that this might have potentially started things in the wrong way - who knows what she has been through? Lesson learned.

I do expect some sort of acknowledgement, and if I don't hear from her, at least in the form of a text message, then quite clearly something is wrong - in fact I would consider her behaviour to be downright rude regerdless of the time of year. It only takes a minute to send a message to just say "look real busy now, I'll call later", or "I am not interested, don't wate your time - bye!".

If I do not hear from her today, I will give her one call tomorrow earlier during the day. If that doesn't work, then it wasn't meant to be and that's that - and of course, it poses a rather significant question as to why I felt such strong emotions about this lady in the first place? :confused:

Until then however, this is all pure conjecture on my behalf.

Once again, thank you all for your kind replies.

Cheers, Spongebob.

PS. I am sorry you think this belongs in the "fiction section" CurlySue.
All the best.

I agree with Rob, you've done your part, the ball is in her court and its time for her to do the turnaround.

you also have to consider that maybe she gave you a bogus number. Some women don't have the guts to tell a guy they're not interested and give out made up numbers. If voice mail didn't come on, or an answering machine than I'm thinking its a bogus number.

I do hope she calls you back and that I'm wrong but I don't want you to think too much on this and lose sight of the fact that you sound like a quality guy and if she doesn't get back to you, you know what, life goes on. Don't invest more time into someone than you're willing to lose. You're already getting bend out of shape because she's not call you, if you continue to think about this person, you will be wasting energy that can be better channeled through someone, waiting for you around the corner, then on someone who does not pick up her phone or at the very least return your call. Don't sweat it. Focus on you and what you can offer the right girl.

Paris

Hey Spongebob... :D

Listen dont beat yourself up about the text message.....I think that was nice; not a full on phone call too soon just a nice reminder that lets her know you are thinking of her and you DO intend to call. Afterall dont we women always complain that men NEVER call when they say they will? :rolleyes:

I for one would have loved that from a new guy I found some interest in. If she doesnt respond to you then clearly something is wrong.......but WHAT isnt your issue. It could be anything and you sound perfectly charming, attractive and sensitive......this isnt about her at the moment, its about you. Jump on the treadmill and work it out!!

I agree with Trish, if its meant to be, it will be. I say dont call her; at this point she is well aware that you have been trying to reach her. Hang in there!

Bob, I hope you didn't think that I was saying that you were playing games. :( I didn't say that, and I really meant just what I wrote. And like I said, I can only speak for me. Others may not agree with me about the text message.

Yep, as others have said, you've done your part. The ball is in her court.

Also, like Paris said,

"Some women don't have the guts to tell a guy they're not interested and give out made up numbers."

I've never given out a fake number. But, to be honest, there are times where I have given out my number while having fun chatting with a guy and then not returned calls. But why have I done it? Usually, it's because I'm kinda interested but not totally sure so I don't want to shoot him down. Then, the next day I might realize that, no, I'm not interested. Then, I guess, I don't know wht to say to the guy, especially if we were having a good time when we met. I figure if I don't return his call, he'll get it and not call again.

This is probably not the best way to handle the situation. :rolleyes: But it works both ways. If I take a guy's number and call, and he doesn't call back, I figure he's not interested and I don't call again. No real harm done. Handing out a phone number is not a commitment in any way, shape or form. I even try to make him feel comfortable if I bump into him again. I don't bring it up and if he does I brush it off and tell him to forget about it. If he really wants to see me after that, he'll make it clear.

I'm yammering away about this because maybe this is what happened with her..? This is just one of a lot of different reasons why you haven't heard from her, and many of them wouldn't be personal about you. See Ravenglow's comment that about "If she doesnt respond to you then clearly something is wrong.......but WHAT isnt your issue."

You sound like a good guy, Bob. Get out there and smile and charm the girls.

Hi all,

firstly I'd like to thank everyone for their PMs and posts here, the moral support this provided me has been nothing short of outstanding - for this I am eternally grateful to all the kind people here. Massive Thank You! :)

Hi Science Goddess, my apologies if you misunderstood my second post, I wasn't referring to your post with the "playing games" bit. I was puzzled by kathyw's post who suggested that the lady in question might think I was playing games.

Well, yesterday I discussed the whole thing with a female friend of mine, and we both concluded that it was rather odd that no contact had been made.

Strangely enough, I had an appointment for a haircut today - and so I discussed this with my hairdresser. I was curious as to the hours she had to work. Quite a lot at this time of year. She suggested that I call her at like 10pm !!! I thought this was too late.

So I go home, and I can't bear it any longer. I called from my home phone and I get a response. At 10:30 pm !!! She had just started to eat dinner! I guess she just got home. She sounded very tired.

Well I asked if she could talk, and thats when she said "Not really, I am just having dinner - I'll call you later". Cool - I thought.

Anyway, she text messages me at 11:30pm, saying that she will call tomorrow and that she had a very big day today.

At least it all makes some sense now. She sounded so tired that I thought this was probably for the best - I really don't want to start things when she is irritable and tired.

Anyway, at least I now know that her number is for real, and that she has my number as well. In addition, she could have given some sort of excuse if she didn't wish to be contacted.

So basically I believe its for the best if I don't hassle her over the festive season - she is busy at work and will be with her family over Christmas. I stated that she can call me anytime (I am a real nightowl). I believe I am now more understanding of her situation, and how she probably felt bad calling late at night, considering the circumstances. Although a text message should have been possible, however I guess that is how she is. She probably preferred to talk (so do I).

Well, the Rant-O-Meter(tm) is starting to sound an alert, so I shall stop right here.

Basically I just need to take it easy. I'll text her a "Merry Christmas" message of course (unless people here think that is a bad idea?)

Thanks for you kind ears and eyes.

A very Merry Christmas to all.

Best regards, Bob.

Is the gal a hairdresser/stylist? I can only imagine how busy she is at this time of the year. And tired.

I had my hair done yesterday, and my normally totally relaxed and easy-going stylist was pretty stressed out. Poor gal!

As for the text message, I guess only you can make that decision. I hate to throw in my possibly unpopular opinion but when a guy keeps calling or texting me on an almost daily basis...even if I like him and would like to go out with him...if I'm busy with other areas of my life, I start to get irritated. Then, I figure if I'm already irritated, why go out with him?

Again, this may be unpopular but I'm just giving you an honest picture of my own thought process...only speaking for me, of course. :)

The other thing is that there is no way to know what else is going on in her life. Maybe she just got out of a relationship. Maybe her dog just died. Maybe a relative just died. Maybe she's not really in date mode. Maybe she's working 60 hours a week. Maybe she just got out of prison (hope not). Maybe...well, the list is endless.

I do think it would be really nice if she would CALL you back and give you some kind of CLUE, though!

Maybe you can leave her a voicemail, or if she answers, just sort of move from "how ya doin'" to "Hey, I'm sure you're super busy at work at this time of the year. I would really like to take you out, though, when you have time or need a break. I'll call you in a few days but if you need a break sooner, I'd love to hear from you."

Blahblahblah...I'm pretty yappy this morning.

Good luck.

about the "fiction" comment. You do just sound too good to be true, however. ANYWAY, I would not text her or call her again. The ball is in her court and you should just leave it there. She knows you are interested without you pushing anymore. Got it? :rolleyes:

Thanks everyone.

Hi Trish, I was re-reading your first post in this thread, and that is exactly how I feel in these situations. I automatically assume the worst. I need to modify that behavioural aspect of mine. Space appears to be the order of the day in this situation.
Yes, I also thought that if she wouldn't have text-messaged if she didn't care at all.

Hi Science Goddess, I only called on Tuesday, and the again on Thursday night, and apart from the initial Sunday SMS that was it - so I don't know if I she felt pressured by this. She sounded calm but tired on the phone. Unfortunately she does not have voice mail switched on, at least it wasn't on Tuesday evening so that is not an option. Of course, a lot of the stress was emanating from my inability to determine whether or not this was a real or duff phone number. This has now been established, therefore I can calm and cool down.

I agree with your comment about her giving me some sort of clue, however, being slightly philosophical about it, I reached the same conclusion as yourself - but based on my own framework of the world. It is quite possile that this is who she is, and might not be a realiable person in terms of returning calls, etc, regardless of who called, the workload and seasonal situation only serving to exacerbate matters in this case. It is not a judgment - I'm just saying that this might be her character. The impression I have thus far is that she is a fairly calm and laid back person.

Hi Passionate, the fact that she is a hairdresser doesn't really phase me. The LAST thing I'd want to discuss after work is "the autoregressive conditional heteroskedasticity of a financial intrument's volatility of returns". As long as she is a pleasant person and has a sense of humour, that cool with me. Also noted is your opinion with regards to the "Merry Christmas" message. Probably not a good idea on second thought.

Indeed that comment was echoed by CurlySue's post.

Hi CurlySue, I certainly "Got It"? I appreciate your blunt-and-to-the-point responses. She certainly knows how to contact me, and also where to find me (the place where we met is my regular Saturday night haunt - I know the people who run it, very well - and she also knows). BTW, I'll take the "too good to be true" comment as a compliment. Thanks. Though I still don't know why you'd say that.


Based on form, I doubt it that she will call tonight. Probably one of her biggest days of the year in terms of work - so thats cool. I hope she surprises me of course. Other than that, I am going to get a cheeky kip and wake up refreshed for a fun night. I'm going out. I certainly need to.

All the best everyone.

Cheers, Bob.

Sidebar: When I read threads like this and see the amount of thoughtful and 'real' advice being offered, it serves to reinforce my belief that we have a good group of people here. :)

Thank you Trish.
I agree with you wholeheartedly Science Goddess. The people here are phenomenal.

The great news is that she called. Not only did she call, but she apologised for not contacting me earlier, as this week has been rather hectic for her and she hadn't been timely with any of her replies to telephone calls, in fact she was just on her way to do some late night shopping, at 9:30pm!

Even better news is that I asked if we could meet. She said that Tuesday is good, and that I should call her on Monday to organise it! She sounded very happy, very positive.

She even dropped a hint (perhaps?) that she doesn't know what she is doing for New Year's eve yet, and was asking me what I was doing.

I get the feeling that the "big guy upstairs" must like me.

What an emotional roller-coaster this week has been.

Wishing everyone all the very best. Thank you so much for all your advice and support. I have learned a lot.

:) x 10 ^ 23
(That is a lot of :) )

:) x 10 ^ 23
(That is a lot of :) )


*laugh* Yep, it is!

This is cool, Bob.

Can't wait to hear how your first 'date' or get together goes. :)

I just wanted to say...

good for you!

And as for the comment about her 'only' being a hairdresser.... well, maybe she owns the business? And who cares anyway.