date tonight, ym/parent issue annoying me

hey all,

i had a date tonight w/the YM (34) from another state who is here visiting his parents. we had a very nice dinner out...and after dinner we were walking around downtown meandering here and there, conversing, and when i asked him if he wanted to walk down another street, he said he felt he should probably get back. it was 9pm and he said his parents "expected" him back at 8pm. (this is the guy who made up the story about something in order to get away from his parents without revealing an internet connection!) i thought "OMG".....other than this we had a very nice evening. he wasn't trying to get away from me, of that i am sure. he kissed me and said he'd like to see me again, and that he was going to be down in january because his dad is going to have surgery. he asked if he could see me again. i don't feel intense chemistry, but he's cute and i liked him. worth another shot maybe? here's the hesitation:

he flew here last night, but he said, "next time i think i'll drive so that i can get here and see you BEFORE i see them so i don't have to deal with questions."

is that not a bit bizarre? other than this issue, he seems completely normal. he's a professional in the same industry as me. we had a lot to talk about, we hit it off, he seems really nice, etc. i understand not wanting to tell your parents about the internet thing, but a 34 yr/old man who has to kowtow to his parents seems just downright weird to me.

i'm 55, but i'm remembering being in my thirties, and feeling like an adult, not a kid who had to tiptoe around my parents so that i didn't piss them off...

Please! Let go of this jerk! He's going to hurt your feelings! He has either not detached from mom's apron strings OR he has another scenario going on! I don't buy any of what he says from the way you say it happens. So he begs off at 9 p.m.?


Aaaauuuuggggghhhhhhh!

Ali

well, he doesn't seem like a jerk to me at all LB...he seems like a very well mannered nice YM who acted like nothing but a gentleman...he just seems to have an issue with his parents that seems pretty bizarre to me at his age.

but the last YM i dealt with had major issues with his parents and never told them about me despite our relationship, so maybe i'm overly sensitive to it.

this guy seems like he is very interested in having a relationship actually. i just think it's completely odd to be beholden to one's parents at age 34. then again, he is only here for two days, they want his company the entire time, and they don't know he was on a date. it's all kinda weird, eh?

I agree that this sounds strange...pardon me I don't remember was this your first meeting? the thing about the parents sounds like a major excuse...what did your intuition tell you?

woah thats a hard one take care of yourself hey maybe just wait and see if it gets serious worry about it then mb

Skatergirl
I think Kat is ignoring her intuition for the moment.

Ali

yes, it was our first meeting, and my intuition tells me that he wants to pursue a relationship with me...he asked me if i would consider visiting his state...twice! then he called and said he had a wonderful time and would call me on xmas day.

i don't see the thing about the parents as an excuse at all......
but i see it as some weird dynamic he has with his parents that is bizarre...
at his age.

he says he rarely sees his parents...and that his dad has to have surgery next month, and that his parents are both getting a little clingy lately since his dad has had health problems....but it's still odd to feel like you have to get back "home" at a certain time when you're 34 so as to not upset them.....(or have them ask too many questions, more likely.)

i think the guy is sincere......he told me he was really nervous about meeting me, and that he was pleasantly surprised, yada yada...i think he's actually a bit shy and doesn't have much experience with woman.....that was my gut feeling.

the truth is i don't know if I'M interested in pursuing....or just chalking it up to a nice date.

....but it's still odd to feel like you have to get back "home" at a certain time when you're 34 so as to not upset them.....(or have them ask too many questions, more likely.)

This sounds like your intuition!
This is Christmas so it is forseable that he was "expected" at home, however it's only the 22nd so here we go again with it sounding strange again.
One of the main reasons I don't online date is because of the first meeting...kind of like a blind date and the guy is sizing you up in the flesh you know and deciding if he's really attracted to you or not...it's always seemed a bit demeaning to me. And it's so long distance too! there are so many stressors at play...enough to make a girl feel nuts!!
This is just one guy you met on the internet, forgive me please but who cares what he thinks or does...you owe him nothing.
And who needs yet another guy that is going to trip out over the age difference and hide you...(Going thru it myself)
Scr*w that...It was a nice date & that's awesome but you don't need anyone coming into your life confusing you and making you feel insecure etc.
Who is he anyway? (Sorry...just don't like it when guys act like this.)

skater, yeah, i think it's just a real sore spot for me because of the previous issue with my former YM...otherwise I probably wouldn't give it too much thought, but in a way, i'm glad i've been there/done that.....gives me a lot of insight into what i will and will not tolerate.

trish, you're absolutely right, it's a "go with the flow, don't get too involved" deal, and i think i can very much do that because my gut is telling me that i'm not interested over the long haul.

sorry to obsess a little here.....this was my first date in a long, long time! but i do feel ready to get back out in the dating world again.....as first dates go, this wasn't a bad start.....

Yikes, parents issues in 30's. Dang does it ever end? Lol.

Parents are always parents no matter how old you are. My grandfather (85) does not like the details of my uncle (54) not being married to the gal he has been seeing. Nor does he like the fact that his other son has been living with a woman without being married for almost 40 years!

Maybe the parents are religious.

Parents really don;t need to know anything unless it gets serious as opposed to casually dating. Meeting the parents is a big step. Everyone deserves their privacy.

yes, it was our first meeting, and my intuition tells me that he wants to pursue a relationship with me...he asked me if i would consider visiting his state...twice! then he called and said he had a wonderful time and would call me on xmas day.

i don't see the thing about the parents as an excuse at all......
but i see it as some weird dynamic he has with his parents that is bizarre...
at his age.

he says he rarely sees his parents...and that his dad has to have surgery next month, and that his parents are both getting a little clingy lately since his dad has had health problems....but it's still odd to feel like you have to get back "home" at a certain time when you're 34 so as to not upset them.....(or have them ask too many questions, more likely.)

he may be a sweet guy and the parent issue is hard. this would make me kookoo also, adam was a "put it in your face" person, much more than i ever could be, he was like "i love her and we are going to be together" I on the other hand was a shrinking violet who came around. he is twenty years younger than me, we are married one and half years and the parents are NO longer an issue, if it is meant to be, these things work themselves out.

LOL..I wasnt talking about the parents! Im a parent too and Thank God I always will be. I was actually addressing the issue that Kat has a guy who needs to "report" in with parents or sidestep them when it comes to seeing her. Im dealing with same issue with my YW and her parents but shes 18! Hmmmmm......

Parents are always parents no matter how old you are. My grandfather (85) does not like the details of my uncle (54) not being married to the gal he has been seeing. Nor does he like the fact that his other son has been living with a woman without being married for almost 40 years!

Maybe the parents are religious.

Parents really don;t need to know anything unless it gets serious as opposed to casually dating. Meeting the parents is a big step. Everyone deserves their privacy.

Yes, parents are always parents. Im a parent too, Thank God and I always will be. I was actually speaking to the fact that someone in 30's has to "report" in or sidestep before seeing Kat. Im dealing with same issue but my YW is 18....Hmmmmm....

thanks for the vote of confidence trish.

that felt good!

:)

Yes, parents are always parents. Im a parent too, Thank God and I always will be. I was actually speaking to the fact that someone in 30's has to "report" in or sidestep before seeing Kat. Im dealing with same issue but my YW is 18....Hmmmmm....

I have a similar issue because my ym is 22 and lives with his religious parents. I have never had the pleasure of seeing him between 11 pm and 5:30 am. But that works out for me because I have 2 young daughters and I do not want to model having a man that I am not married to over here at night.

I have a similar issue because my ym is 22 and lives with his religious parents. I have never had the pleasure of seeing him between 11 pm and 5:30 am. But that works out for me because I have 2 young daughters and I do not want to model having a man that I am not married to over here at night.

LOve your ozzie quote! Yes the world of Ag relationships is complicated but then again Im not sure I have ever been in an uncomplicated relationship. Most of the populus tries to put their lives in lil boxes nice and neat. Guess what! It doens t work that way. More and more people I talk too at work or in life all tried it but life isnt made to fit into a lil nice neat box. Maybe all us AG;s are a product of the love, peace, sex (opps, love) not war generation. We are not the generation to saddle up to a rocker and droll our self to sleep!
Bring on the complicated!

Another perspective.

Hopefully tonight I will get a phonecall from my gf. After a while, she might have to go, because she's expected to be at her parents tomorrow night. It's not leaving a date, but I don't get to speakto her every day.

On Boxing Day (day after christmas day) last year, when my gf arrived, we were expected to be at dinner with half of my family (it's not very big). So we were there within a couple of hours of her flight arriving (it was delayed, we were supposed to have longer before dinner), which she didn;t mind, if she had we wouldn't have gone.

Sometimes you're just expected to be at certain things. Maybe he was doing something with his parents, that's why he was expected?

i don't think you're obsessing either! I think you are trying to be very careful which, trust me, I need to learn more than anyone! ;)
I don't want any of us to get hurt again, we all need to be cautious and honestly look at our relationships. Sharing here is such a blessing as all of our experience combined can really help us to look at things differently. I think it is one of the very positive aspects of the internet! where else could one have the privelege of such wonderfully varied advice!
it is hard; i heard the other day that loneliness is part of being human. we all feel it. my yoga teacher said in 100 years we'll all be gone so we must get right with ourselves, as i always say the realtionship we have with ourselves is the most important. and then one day, when we absolutely least expect it, we'll find our soul mate!

I remember when my parents and most of my family still lived in the NYC area. I lived in SC, and when I came up for a visit....my folks wanted me to spend most of my time with them. This ym was also visiting his folks. That was the main purpose of his visit. He chose not to tell them that he had met someone via the internet, so it would seem weird to them if he was out and about most of one of their two days together. I see that as moreorless normal.

But, if things did get serious and he was afraid to ever mention he knew Kat, then that would be problematic. He's just avoiding scaring them. I remember when I met my ym online and most of my family was very upset I was going to meet him. They thought I'd lost my mind.

Yep, I see it the way Softsong does. I don't think you know enough yet to make the analysis you're trying to make Kat.

It may not be him at all, just him trying to deal with parents who have become clingy, which isn't his fault. It may be a new thing for him and he doesn't know quite how to handle it, or doesn't want to upset them in any way. If you and he do become an "item" then see how he deals with that.

You just met, so there's really no reason to talk about you to his parents at this point. They may have certain holiday traditions that they need to have happen just the way they are used to, who knows.

I think you're going overboard on the analysis thing here. Just relax.

Errr... I don't see why its a bad thing to have a close relationship with your parents at ANY age, nor do I see it a bad thing to feel like waiting until you KNOW what you want to discuss any potential relationship with those very people. I think he's just being cautious where they are concerned and not wanting to needlessly bring up being in a "relationship" that he isn't quite in yet or how he met you when you two have only been on one official date.

I am very close to my parents and would damn well resent anyone saying that I had "mommy" issues because I happen to be close to them. I work in the family business (my choice and my PLEASURE), see both my folks almost everyday, respect them, appreciate them, help them and they help me and am terribly grateful to have them as my FRIENDS.

When Litical and I first started dating, I knew full well how my parents would react and did not make any moves to "notify them" of my choice until *I* was sure of where it was going. It would have been utterly needless to notify them of an unconventional relationship if it was just going to blow over in a couple weeks or months. I waited. I DO NOT regret that decision, nor do I feel I ever "tiptoed" around them. :rolleyes:

This guy doesn't strike me as a "jerk" or as if he were somehow married to his parents. Geez people. He's cautious and sensitive to their feelings. This doesn't make him a BAD person or a fool or an idiot or anything. It makes him "sensitive" to his parents feelings and concerns and doesn't want to needlessly worry them until he knows where this is going himself.

My parents will be a HUGE part of my life for the rest of theirs or my life. Any person who thinks I haven't cut the apron springs can go jump in a lake for all I care. They are my FAMILY and a part of ME. They do not control my life or actions, but they ARE a part of my life in a huge way. And I regret NONE of it.

My mother was always very close to her mother. To this day, I am terribly grateful for this fact... as Gram was an incredible human being and her life had great meaning to MINE.

Some people just don't understand that some families can be very close and healthy and functional and yet still independent and individual adults.

When the time comes that he feels this potential budding relationship is going somewhere, I am sure he will clue them in... in the meantime, he's feeling his way through the dark space of dating to be sure this is what he wants ~ you want ~ and eventually what they will accept and understand.

No fault in my eyes.
~phos

It is interesting reading how all of us bring our suggestions based on our own experience. How could we do otherwise?

The trigger for me was him saying that 'he would see you before he went to his parents'. I have had ONE guy who lived in Dallas and then moved away. When he came to town, he saw not only his parents but a small harem of girlfriends. The 2 to 4 girlfriends ALL thought she was the only one. He would tell all of us that he was either at a male friend's house or at his parents. I only found out about this when I met one of his other girlfriends at a party and she gave me glowing details about her "boyfriend". :cool:

So I bring you this experience Kat to use or not to use. You are a wise and wonderful woman and I have no doubt that you will not let ANY man mistreat you.

Thank you for putting yourself out there and sharing with us your process. I can sometimes learn more from seeing someone else work through things than I can by myself. You are a sweetheart! :)

skater, yeah, i think it's just a real sore spot for me because of the previous issue with my former YM...otherwise I probably wouldn't give it too much thought, but in a way, i'm glad i've been there/done that.....gives me a lot of insight into what i will and will not tolerate.

trish, you're absolutely right, it's a "go with the flow, don't get too involved" deal, and i think i can very much do that because my gut is telling me that i'm not interested over the long haul.

sorry to obsess a little here.....this was my first date in a long, long time! but i do feel ready to get back out in the dating world again.....as first dates go, this wasn't a bad start.....


Is he an only child? I'm an only child and I live right across the street from my parents. I'm of an age as your YM and well....I pretty much tell them everywhere I'm going. I kind of feel a responsibility to them. I've always felt like I have to please them. Truthfully, I'm just now breaking out of that need.

Don't get me wrong because my parents are fabulous, but maybe he just has that kind of personality. If he's an only child and a people pleaser then that could be the reason.

Like I said, I'm breaking from the mold as evident by not getting home until 3:30 am this morning and all I said was I was going out. Parents will be parents until you try to break free a bit and then they are happy to allow you to grow up.

I think he's probably just attempting to please his parents. You know, doesn't want to upset them, wants them to be proud of him and think he makes good choices.

*holds head* This probably makes zero sense......I had a long night.

Gosh, the cynicism can sure bite...

I've lost both my parents and at 46 with two surgeries behind me, I would give anything to have them here with me because I know I would be taken care of and babied and spoiled. It isn't just our ym who have a monopoly on loving us in their own way. I do have cousins that I grew up with and when I go on internet dates, I tell them where I'm going, who I'm going with, what we will be doing and at times they will call me on the cell and I will take it. We dont' live in Never/neverland so those that love us the most should know who we're with and where we are.

I too thought it a very loving son taking care of his aging parents who obviously mean alot to him. I would rather date and marry a man who bends over backwards for his parents despite me, then one who only gives a hoot when he has the time to spend with them. And I would certainly not date a man who would let me monopolize his time away from them either. But If he's giving you pause in dating, than you're right, your not the right person for this guy.

i don't think you're obsessing either! I think you are trying to be very careful...I don't want any of us to get hurt again

be careful, sometimes we are so darn careful of being in a relationship we knickpick at everything about a relationship and convince ourselves that its not a good relationship when it could've been the best we ever had. and as for being hurt, if I hear this line again I will scream...do you really think you can avoid being hurt. To every relationship someone will get hurt...either when someone falls out of love with the other or communications have broken down, or its just time to get out of what is a very damaging relationship. Most hurts are the products of our own making, the relationship is dying and we are too stubborn to realize it and get out of it anyway, so don't think of this relationship as someone who might hurt you, because the truth is you're already labeling him as Darth Vader, someone with no potential to be a person of quality, so in essence you're ready to hurt him.

As Fos stated:

This guy doesn't strike me as a "jerk" or as if he were somehow married to his parents. Geez people. He's cautious and sensitive to their feelings. This doesn't make him a BAD person or a fool or an idiot or anything. It makes him "sensitive" to his parents feelings and concerns and doesn't want to needlessly worry them until he knows where this is going himself.

So for now, just wait on it. And if he's not someone who blings your bong (so call chemistry) then give him up before he develops feelings for you. Because I'm sure he's seeing you with the wishes of seeing if a relationship is in the works for him and if you're already seeing him as if he's from the dark side, what's the point?

Paris

Kat, I don't know the whole story, but I guess I can relate to your YM's position...


I'm in my thirties and when I stay with my parents I also completely live by their schedule and their preferences.... out of respect. A lot of this has to do with Mum's personality, as she's very `particular' about things and doesn't react well to having her routine disrupted in any way.....you could probably say she's Obsessive Compulsive, I think. These traits get more pronounced with age.

So since I don't see them very often, I accommodate her fully. Things such as coming home after her bed time would cause her an incredible amount of distress and inconvenience, for example. Not only would the disruption cause her anxiety, it would also wake up her dogs and she'd worry about me when I was gone.

Also, many times my parents have helped me to pay for the expensive airfare to see them. I think my parents would feel a tad insulted if they thought I had travelled a long way to meet someone in their town, and not especially to see them.

I think if I *really* pushed it I could do more of my own thing when I'm around them, but when i see them so rarely, I'd rather make them happy and keep the peace, I guess.

YR, yr welcome for "putting myself out there"...i'm kind of a dork that way because i have not a lot of good reference points so i'm in need of opinions! i'm great in health care, great mom and grandma, excellent friend, good student, retarded dater. :eek: anyway, you're right to point out how we all bring our own experiences to the table...fascinating how people's baggage falls all over the floor, esp. MINE!

Fos and Bella, I agree with everything you're saying...it's foreign to me because I never had a good relationship with my parents. But the odd thing in this situation is that while he certainly respects them (that is very evident) he describes them as a total pain in the ***, and annoying. I think he loves them, but moreso feels an obligation to them. I see him doing this in other relationships as well...he helped a friend's girlfriend move and complained about it, he went to a birthday party of a friend out of obligation, and complained about it. I think he either doesn't know how to say "no" or he just likes to complain. Some people are like that. Conversely, whenever anyone asks him to do something for them, I can see that he is a loyal and helpful friend/person. Double edged sword. But this makes me wonder: how would I know in a relationship with him if he was doing things out of obligation, or because he wanted to? I can already see this as an issue.

So I would never dis anyone for loving and protecting their parents. I think that's a wonderful thing. And I also understand that they wanted him around as much as possible.

Sdoah, he is not an only child, but he is the oldest. He has one younger brother. His brother was there too, and his brother was entertaining the parents while he was gone for all of four hours. And they only wanted him gone three, including travel time! Just a little controlling.

Paris, I don't know where you were going with the brother comment...I think you misunderstood something apparently. But what you did say to me that made a lot of sense was: "if he doesn't bling your blong (chemistry) then give it up before he develops feelings for you." well, let me tell you this:

I realized today that his goodnight kiss was SO BAD, that THAT'S WHAT WAS REALLY FREAKING ME OUT! I really like him, think he's cute, smart, genuine, funny, sweet, responsible, etc. But his kiss did absolutely nothing for me. I was SO DISAPPOINTED!!!!!!!!

read on:

SHOULD I TELL HIM HE NEEDS TO WORK ON IT?

or do people either have it, or not have it? sometimes i think guys need a woman to tell them...

he's one of those guys that comes at you like a BLOWFISH....... :eek:

I would have not thought so much about the parent thing if he had been a little more romantic and a good kisser......that's damn sad, isn't it? :p :confused:

Did you just kiss once or several times? Sometimes the first kiss is not so good. If you don't like the way he does it, then I would ask him if he minds your showing him how you liked to be kissed? That is not criticizing HIS kissing... just telling him how to light your fire, is all. :p

and as for being hurt, if I hear this line again I will scream...do you really think you can avoid being hurt You are right... I have been wanting to say, that as I get older (ALL TOO QUICKLY!!!), the thing that I am really proud of when it comes to men, is that I loved him/them well. I tried to be there for him/them and build them up, not tear down.

I gave many times unselfishly, not looking for what I could get back. I forgave some almost unforgivable offenses. I made love with him like there was no tomorrow. Sometimes I gave too many chances but this is what love does.

Bottom line, I did it for love and I did it for ME, not HIM. So I do not feel cheated that it did not work out. There is very little that I would change if I could, in terms of my behavior toward him.

Hurt? SURE! But what is the opposite? Not caring, playing it safe. Play it safe and there is no passion in my life...

Don't worry, I will have plenty of wonderful memories while sitting in my rocking chair. :p I will let others play it safe and try not to be hurt... I plan on living my life to the fullest with pain, pleasure and love. It is all a part of being fully human.

Sorry for the rant... seem like a good place to put what I have been thinking lately. :D

One last thing... even if one finds the perfect love... one of you will feel pain when the other dies.

I had that happen once. at the end of a first date, the guy kisses me and I was like ugghh! It just was not harmonious, not right. (To say the least) and that had never happend before!! Personally I would not say anything about it. For me, if I have to tell someone then I'm turned off and it seems like a sign that we have bad chemistry.
The part about avoiding getting hurt again, yeah why not. I've been hurt plenty and I would like to think that I could learn from my mistakes in avoiding "red flags" etc.
It goes without saying that getting hurt is a part of life, I sure as heck am far from perfect but would want to deter any of my friends or aqaintances from avoiding any heart ache. If that makes me unenlightend well, you're probably right. :)

YR, no, it was just one kiss.......one BAD, BAD kiss....lol....but i'll take your advice under advisement.....

as for the discussion re: getting hurt, here's my philosophy:

the minute you enter into any kind of relationship with another person, the potential for hurt exists.

personally, i will ALWAYS take that risk...always have, always will.....that's life. if you're not willing to risk being hurt, you're not willing to really LIVE!!

Paris, I don't know where you were going with the brother comment...I think you misunderstood something apparently.

Oh Kat7, please accept my apologies, I got your ym confuse with Trish's ym. Talk about being a dork. That's what I get for being on my cell at the same time as I was trying to write this out.

I like YR suggestion though, i would go out on another date with him and this time relax. I think 1st dates are overrated...either we read too much into them, or we expect too much, or we just go on them for a free meal. Give him a second chance and see if you still feel the same after. If it doesn't feel like a good thing, then don't torture yourself or him. its not worth it. Maybe this guy is just the beginning of your dating experience as you sift through some frogs and find your prince.

Paris

Well, just another 2 cents worth here. I say give this a little more time, but stay in touch with these gut feelings. My YM has not said a thing to his parents and won't until well after my divorce is final. I realize the situation is different than yours, but what bothers me is that when his mom calls when we are together and she has noticed he's not at home, he always makes up some story instead of just telling her, "Mom, I'm seeing someone!" I keep telling myself that he knows his mom, he knows what's best in this case. He has certainly missed family events to be with me, so I feel clear on his priorities. Timing is everything, or so I have myself believing. It is just not time yet. Your relationship with this guy is brand new; feel it out a little and ask questions of him. Let him know that this bothers you. But if you find that those apron strings are tied tighter than normal, RUN! The one thing that gives me hope is that when the time does come, my YM will have no problems telling his family to back off.

Good heavens, kat, relax. You have had only one brief date with this man and seem ready to put the relationship in its grave. You really know almost nothing about him or his life. Take the time to get to know him. Don't start giving him advice. That would be rude. At this point, you have little idea of what his life situation really is. Just calm down and enjoy going out with the nice guy he seems to be. You will learn his details soon enough. Stop analyzing the unknown and have a good time. :D

Actually, we've been emailing and phoning for a couple of months....so I DO have a good basic foundation for who he is, or I wouldn't have agreed to meeting him. The meeting was to basically see if there was any chemistry, because we certainly had enough in common to meet. He's a top notch person... personally and professionally. There is no question in my mind about that. I've got the interview process down! ;)

Hence, I think my concerns here are legit and normal. I'm not spazing out here about this, just chatting it out here on Ageless.... plus you must understand...I have not "dated" in over four years, so this whole process is making me a little nervous. I've been divorced for 15 years, and have had two long term relationships in between then and now.....so essentially new at this stuff.

I am working on my "issues" which include having intense chemistry with someone, and then realizing (too late) that it's because of our mutual dysfunction.
I'm sure many of us know all about that.

So I'm trying to jockey that fine line between finding a healthy person, and having chemistry. I'll be the first person to admit that I have NO idea HOW to do that.

In this situation what you have told me Kat7 is that this young man is leading you around artificial boundaries, i.e. his parents. Anytime someone puts up barriers to intimacy at any time in the relationship, from meeting to marriage, I always ask WHY they are doing that! I think that is a good habit. My thought on this dude is that the whole dating until 9 p.m. was highly unusual, and he had an excuse for it which you believed. I tend to make my guys earn my trust, after having been burned....a lot! This would simply seem to unusual to me. Almost as if he was checking you out for a brief sexual encounter, testing the waters to see if he could play you into bed right then, and deciding that he couldn't. Oh well.

I wish you would relax over the dating thing! Just go out with a lot of guys right now, and get back into things. I know it's hard to find quality guys to go out with at times, but it is do-able.

Take a chill pill hun, and get back out there!

Ali

Merry Christmas Kat....

Well.......I say, quit worrying about what could be, instead just live to enjoy what is......

I mean, we can sit here and analyze our first dates to death, what if this, what if that.....

I find it commendable that he is considerate and respectful of his parents. He seems to be thoughtful of their needs and puts their needs first before his own.

Perhaps you are not accustome to people having family obligation, so this is why his behavior is so new to you.

Take it one day at a time Kat......build your foundation........then build upon that foundation........

love,
sora

PS: Are you absolutely sure that he is not married? Positively? Sometimes men who have to excuse themeselves from a date early must return to their wife and family.........have you considered this?

You know Trish, I am very accomplished in so many other areas of my life. I have a great career, I'm financially solvent, I have terrific friends, a wonderful family (now that my parents are dead!! sad, but true...) I'm a very successful student (finishing a degree...again!) and I have never been able to get the relationship thing down successfully. I agree with you that FINALLY, and this stage of our lives, it looms as a real possibility based on intelligent choices.

Sora, yes, I'm sure he's not married. Trust me, I'm not that naive!! There's nothing to indicate to me that this guy is lying about anything. I think his biggest problem is that HE doesn't trust WOMEN...a former fiancee left him in the dust for a doctor.

LBlond...you have a good point, about the artificial boundaries, that is, if they were artificial. In this case, I don't think they were. I don't know where he would have "played me into bed" because all we were doing was going out to dinner. He didn't have a place to go back to, and I sure wasn't inviting him to my house on a first date. He wasn't a touchy-feely kind of guy anyway. But point well taken about relaxing and dating. That's my plan!

Oh Kat....I did not mean to imply you were naive....I'm sorry....its just something that came to mind as an after thought....

My apologies if I offended you!


love,
sora

hey no sweat sora...i only meant this is something i know for a fact...he gave me his cell and home immediately and up front. usually good clues...

he called me today to wish a merry and reiterate what a good time he had with me. he's definitely a nice guy. crappy kisser. lol

Crappy kisser........maybe he just hasn't had enough practice........and maybe he just was nervous........

it was only one kiss......maybe the next will be sweeter......

love,
sora

Dear Kat7,

A lot of men, including me, have a very hesitant nature, and, on a subconscious level we need someone who'd take us into the right direction :)
I'd read your post and thought for a moment if your YM is taking this incident seriously. Maybe, he doesn't find it offensive at all??? Men generally realize their mistakes a day or two or much more later ;)
If I were as sensitive as you are, I would bring more CONTROL to the relationship, whether I like it or not. And that's normal, just a part of mutual cooperation that makes us learn more about each other.
Of course, my opinion may sound very prejudiced to you, however it reminds me about my own experience of not understanding the partner's feeling. She was smart enough to teach me to be more careful with what I say and how I act...
You have a powerful weapon-wisdom, and I am sure you'll find the answers yourself.
Please don't give up and enjoy what you have today!

i see that this is your first post, and i feel honored that you had input into my thread here.....thank you!!!

you may be right, i should take control...i'm not shy about that. he'll either respond or he won't, but my guess is that he will because i'm fairly sure he really likes me.

he called me today to say hello and merry christmas and to tell me what a nice time he had with me again.

now the real question is: am I interested in pursuing the relationship...
hmmm...
my best friend says "don't throw this guy out with the bath water yet."

dont know about u kat but i have always found that the kiss means so much as far as chemistry, passion and future communication. the kiss tells it all!!

I have never been able to get the relationship thing down successfully. Well don't be too hard on yourself. I think as we go up the relationship pyramid, that there are fewer choices.

You are very evolved intellectually as well as attractive. You would want someone who is also interesting and fun . That is why one has to put themselves out there.

It is a numbers game, esp. after we women get a little older. :)

YR,

Thank you for your kind words.

You know what? I think there were always fewer choices for me from the get-go because although I'd pick dysfunctional, I'd always pick UNUSUAL dysfuctional. :eek: LOL

I've had the complaint for years that the pool of available men for me was limited.
You're right, I'm not going to deny my intelligence, and I'm just enough attracted to the strange and unusual that it limits me to a greater or lesser extent in relationships. And then there must be that crazy mix of chemistry added to the equation. It's a hard bill to fill.

But right now, I am just trying to put myself out there...

Believe it or not, I'm trying to broaden my horizons by re-looking at "normal," but it just doesn't hold much allure for me. It's the bain of my relationship existance.

Believe it or not, I'm trying to broaden my horizons by re-looking at "normal," but it just doesn't hold much allure for me. It's the bain of my relationship existance.

Kat, if normal doesn't ring your chimes then don't go there! I've been to Normal, I've lived Normal, and I was dying a slow death in Normal. Give me a man anyday, who is brave enough to admit he has fears and who feels strength in helping me to face mine. Give me a man anyday, who would rather read a fairy tale than the sports page (except when his Yankees are playing.) Give me a man who can cough up any detail about any piece of anime/animation that was ever produced and weaves these into his world view, rather than writing them off as "cartoons."

I understand your point that you want to move into something functional, but as I have read your posts over the last year, I am not convinced that your relationship with your previous YM is all that dysfuntional. "It is what it is", to quote a wise woman who helped me out a few days ago. ;)

spoken like a woman in love! i love it.

thanks for the endorsement of not embracing "normal." but i'd have to disagree w/you about my "former" relationship being less than dysfunctional. without going into the history, everyone that knows me (oddly, with the exception of my family, who are the LEAST judgmental of me) wants me to move on from him. My therapist doesn't want me to "break up with him" because she says I'll just repeat the pattern until I work some bad juju out, for lack of better terminology on this day after christmas; the fat is definitely floating in the serum today!!!! geez.

in any event, i'll have another chance to "work on it" because he (former YM) is arriving in 2 wks for an overnight. i think, however, after almost five years of interacting with each other, we do have a substantive relationship of some sort that seems to defy even our own understanding.

and by the way, you just helped me out too! gotta love this place.

Kat ~

Been super busy and just saw this thread. I don't think that I'm adding much or anything new but I still just wanted to throw in my two cents.

As far as the parent thing, here were the thoughts that jumped into my head:

1. Maybe his parents expected him back around 8 because he said he'd be back around 8. Nothing wrong or dysfunctional with keeping his commitments with his family. And, after all, he was in town to see him parents.

When I travel to see my parents or other relatives, even if I have plans to see friends in the area, I still make my parents or relatives the priority.

2. As far as avoiding the questions, people of any age or either gender might make a comment like this. Maybe his parents are a little nosy about his personal life. Maybe they ask and then blab it to the rest of the family. Maybe they pressure him to get serious with every potential partner. Who knows, ya know?? Also, some people don't like to talk about every possible romantic interest with their parents, and they don't talk about someone with their family until things turn more 'solid'.

I don't tell my Dad or my sisters about every date, meeting or what have you in my life.

3. As for the kiss, well, I agree with Padre:

dont know about u kat but i have always found that the kiss means so much as far as chemistry, passion and future communication. the kiss tells it all!!

Maybe you want to give his puckering-up skills another try?

Me, I could never tell someone after a first date (or several dates for that matter) that their kiss wasn't up to par. And really, no matter what you say, that's what he's going to hear. I have made small comments to men that I was already in a LT relationship with about minor adjustments in kissing - worded very carefully and sensitively. But it wasn't like the kissing was exactly bad in the first place. Still, one ex-bf became extremely defensive and hurt that I was criticizing the way he kissed. And he was in the right, really.

I believe that there are other subtle ways to show someone how you like to be kissed. You can kinda train their lips by kissing them in ways that you prefer. This is only going to work if the guy is sensitive to your responses in the first place.

Lastly, though, having to greatly adjust the way someone kisses is akin to having to greatly adjust the way they make love to you. I'm big on natural chemistry. *sigh* I feel that two people either got it, or they don't.

All in all, it's a bummer, but if I'm turned off by someone's kissing technique in the first place, that's going to put a huge damper on my enthusiasm for pursuing anything else with them. For me, kissing is a sign of other things to come. If the kissing doesn't work for me, the other stuff probably won't either.

SG,

Yeah, I just hung out with three friends of mine this evening and discussed the kissing thing...both of the GUYS of the four of us tonight said, "give him one more shot..."

I guess I may...but I do think that was a BIG indicator that nothing else is going to be compatible either. I'm willing to try once more however I suppose.