Mommy won

Well, some of you were aware that my boyfriend's mother was putting all pressure on him so that he leaves me. She finds the age gap between us disgusting...I am 42, he's 27. Since September I had been waiting for him to decide what to do about it, he tried to reason her, it didn't work, she started threatening to let herself die...well, we had decided to move in together in some days, and today I asked him about it, and for the second time he said he needed time. I don't have that time to give him any longer.
I couldn't stand it anymore. I figured out that if I continue to give him time we'll get nowhere, because she's not changing her mind and he's not able to make a choice. She has told him clearly to choose between me and her...as if she were his lover. I've told him many times that it's not by letting her control his life that he will make her stop doing this kind of threat. He doesn't have the courage to fight her. I don't have any more trust in his decisions. I thought our love was so big, so pure, so strong, and I now I feel lonely, hurt, destroyed. Two years preparing for this, and he didn't gather any strength, I didn't make any difference in this sad aspect of his life. His mother is a pitbull and he's her puppy, raised to do whatever she tells him to do.
Now I just want to stop feeling this pain. I want to stop hoping that he will change his mind and come back to me. I've told him, don't ever call me again, put all my things in a box and leave in front of my home, I don't want to be friends, to help him anymore, I just want to heal my heart and forget about this. Because he has not been able to fight to keep me.
I am confused, and I don't even know why I post this, but this all happened about ten minutes ago and I am still in shock. I haven't realized all the extent of my decision and I am afraid of what is going to happen when I finally do.

call me....now!

I'll PM my number to you.....

Maria,

I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles and I can identify rather closely from the other end of your situation. My Mother always despises, resents and pretends to hate my girlfriends, usually prior to ever meeting them. The one exception was my most recent girlfriend and I assume she just figured that my mother decided it would be in her own personal best interest to align herself with Mary because of her being a successful doctor. Ironically, Mary was the one girlfriend I've had who would not jump through hoops attempting to please my Mother. In fact, she appologeticaly told me that she has no desire to meet my mother, does not like my mother and could never respect her soley based on the one side of our telephone conversations she has overheard while at my house. The problem I am reading into your situation is really more on your boyfriend than his mother, he is grown and needs to choose and balance his life according to his own best judgement. If he allows her to do so, she can ruin his life forever, depending on how long she lives and who she chases out of his life. No person in their right mind who loved a person would make them choose between themself and another loved one. While I symathize with your boyfriend for having been "trained" to please her rather than to become independent and happy, you are the innocent victim in the situation. He has a choice and the power to act as a peacekeeper or keep your relationship completely separated from his and his mothers. You apparently were considered the outsider and could only influence his desicions regarding yourself which would be a difficult situation. I dont really know what to say other than I am sorry. He is a victim of emotional abuse, you are a victim of circumstances, and his mother is most probably a victim of mental illness. I wish you All the Happiness You Deserve and will pray for all of you.


JohnH

You are such a nice person; I do feel for you, knowing what you are going thru right now...

But I think you did the best you could in that situation. To end it immediately, to let him know that he is losing you. To prevent being treated like a toy that he would put on the shelf and pick-up when in the mood. Given the circumstances you did the right thing, Maria. Now you are in pain and to stop that you'd consider taking everything back, so it wouldn't be so definite and final. You need a hope that he would come back and win a fight with his mother. But - do you really need it so much that you would bend toward the uncertain and maybe more hurtful than the recent pain?

He did show that he cannot decide, cannot choose between his mother and you. There is not much room for you then in his world. You walked out and forbade him to follow. Very good ! Be strong, Maria, keep your mind set on yourself, on what is better for you. And it is better for you not to be torn and waiting and hoping - while on the horizon is the mom's son and not a partner that would stand by your side.

I am really sorry, Maria. There is nothing I can do to help you; but please believe that my thoughts and best wishes are with you.

Telimena

I am so sorry for your pain. You are such a lovely person. It is terrible to have to break up with someone you love deeply after years together. My last bad breakup was 2 years ago after I found out that my boyfriend of 3 1/2 years had betrayed me and lied to me. He was very sorrowful and tried to make up with me, but I had had it and said no. Now, I am happy that I was strong enough to do that. I have a new, very caring boyfriend with whom I am very much in love, so I know that life does go on and can get better. I will light a candle for you tonight.

Patricia

http://members.tripod.com/~Froste/candle2.gif

Just a short note to tell you that I believe you are handling your situation exactly right. Go with the flow of events and follow your heart ... This will all work out exactly as it should ... just trust ... I am certain you will be alright ...

Thinking of you ...

Contact me if you need ...

Princessdy

I am hurting tonight, but I feel so blessed to have found this site in October, I could never have imagined at that time that you would all be supporting me one day. I lost my friends here because they couldn't accept my boyfriend, I have no family in Luxembourg. I feel lonely, but less lonely because you are there. I went to the chatroom as soon as I got home and opened this thread, people were warm, so warm, and I needed it. Here in the thread is the same, then the PMs, I was flooded with love, and this helps so much!
I still have hope, it's true, but I am not going to give him or his mother one more minute of my life, so if he comes back, he will have to choose his side. I am sorry to make him choose, but at least I just ask him to choose to assume me, not to give up on his mother. That is something only a sick mind like his mother's would do.
The sad thing is that this boy loves me, but I don't want a boy, I need a man. A loving, caring, and more courageous man.

Maria,

I am so so sorry. I don't even know what to say that will comfort you. Everyone else beat me to it.

You have been so helpful and friendly and supportive of me and I wish i could do the same for you but i feel so useless. I can't say anything that will make it better or easier but I know that one day it won't hurt so much.

all my hugs love and kisses PM or email me if you want to.

Hi Maria,

I don't post much,but read daily.I had to reply to you,I feel so bad for your situation.The hurt you're feeling really comes through.
My first thought I had when reading this,is would you really want a man "boy" that is so attached to his mother at the age of 27?
Know too,that she will ALWAYS be in his life,therefore,meddling in the lives of both of you.
I know it must be so hard for you right now to let go,but I think you're doing exactly what you need to do,break off completely.Start over.You seem like such a great person.You deserve so much more!!

Take Care,
Josy

that this happened, Maria, and I can identify and empathize with you regarding your ym and his mother, having just done this myself. You are correct about this man/boy. I had to let go of mine because sorta of that same situation and what got me there was thinking of what it would be like in years to come as both his mother and I got older. I could readily see him leaving me for her, and thought to myself, "Is that the life I really want?" So, like you I have decided, " I don't want a boy, I need a man. A loving, caring, and more courageous man." But if it is to be, that "boy" you love right now and who loves you, may just become that courageous man.

Take care and my thoughts will be with you.
Hugs

Maria,

I think John said it so well when he described your three way situation. Your friend is indeed a victim of emotional abuse, his mother is mentally ill for sure. But you Maria, are not a victim. No way. You are outa there and that is because you will not allow yourself to be a victim.

I respect your courage and admire your strength. It is such a statement of healthy self esteem that you are leaving.

I hope your young man can break the chains of his sick mother. He is still young and maybe hasn't developed the strength of self to understand and to know that loving her doesn't mean that he has to accept this lifestyle.

And most of all I like the way you have left your door open for him to grow up and come back but not with the requirement that he abandon his mother. That speaks volumes of your character. You are a good person.

You can sleep with the confidence that you are a strong, healthy individual and good things will come your way.

All the best,
Cindy

Maria, I just read this! I'm so, so sorry! I think John hit the nail on the head when he said your bf is emotionally abused and his mother is mentally ill. It sure sounds like it from what you've told us.

It's so hard when you love someone and just want to be happy, yet other people insist on becoming obstacles in your relationship's path. Well, only if you let them. You decided not to allow your ages or his mother become obstacles, but sadly, he did allow it.

If he chooses to come back to you, he needs to stand up to his mother, grow up and be a man, and tell her under no uncertain terms that you are the woman he has chosen to love and his mother either has to respect his decision (AND YOU) or be out of his life until she changes her mind. He will never be happy with anyone of any age if he lets his mother dictate his every move. A parent can't tell a child who to love or how to live after that child turns into an adult. He is 27 for God's sake! Most men his age are married and have careers and families (or are at least thinking of starting one)!

Chin up, Maria! When one door closes, another opens. If I were you, I'd brush away my tears and start dating IMMEDIATELY! Even if I didn't like the other men in that way, I'd at least let myself be taken out to dinner, wined and dined, shown a nice time, and enjoy the attention. I'd make sure Mr. Norman Bates found out about it too, so he could think about what he was missing out on. There are too many fish in the sea to lament over a "suckerfish", tightly fastened to his mommy's teet! You deserve a MAN, who will lavish love and attention on you, surprise you with little gifts, wisk you off on whirlwind trips, remember your birthday, give you unsolicited massages, rub your feet, cook for you, and last but not least...IGNORE THE PHONE WHEN IT'S HIS MOTHER!

We love you, Maria! We're pulling for ya! :)

Maria, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm not sure who is hurt worse by this...you or him. I've known men who let their mother's destroy their romances...marriages...lives and they are a sad lot. You are well rid of him because this harpy would never take her talons out of him while she drew a breath. She is mentally ill and she has sucked him into it.

The sad part is that he probably does love you incredibly. He is a tender loving man who can't seperate his love for his mother from his need to be loved by her. He is terrified that she would stop loving him and a part of him might believe that she really would die and it would be all his fault. He couldn't live with that and he's too screwed up to be able to step back and take a good look at what's happening and realize mom has gone off the deep end.

Learn from this, that's the only thing you can take away to mend a torn heart. You might have given him something today in the realization that he can't have both his needy mother and a healthy relationship with a woman. She would not approve of anyone and your agegap was just an excuse. He might actually start to understand this and grow up.

He might come back. If he does you need to absolutely insist that he see a counselor so that he can become healthy enough to be your partner. It's not asking too much. I got Bear to go as part of our "deal" and it helped a lot.

Nothing anyone can say will help. Only time can heal this wound. Cry, eat chocolate, go to movies, hand with friends and do anything you can to lift your spirits. You did all you could, but you had to let go to save yourself. You need to feel okay with that decision...and you will in time.

Peace and many hugs,
BA

Sorry to hear about your situation Maria. I hope everything works out for you, and that you are able to work through all this with the least amount of heartbreak. You have a lot of support here as you can see. I sure hope this type of support group helps you deal. Lotsa Hugs to you girl...you deserve a man not a boy and I hope & pray he realizes it soon and puts his foot down. That may still happen. Love to you from Cali:cool:

This is a sad Sunday for me. I slept up to noon, no calls from him, but it's normal, I told him not to contact me never again. I start regretting some of my words, being that hard on someone that is clearly sick, but I had to protect myself, I was becoming sick too in this relationship, always postponing my life decisions, never knowing whether I should try to find a way to work here or wait and see if I should just go back to Brasil.
I want to call him right now and tell him I love him, that he can be strong enough to win this battle, but I know that this has to come from him, not from me, as it has always been me. We've broken twice before and it was a torture for both of us.
He's a solitary man, with only his mother and her harem of sick men: his uncle who is divorced and hates his ex-wife, and his son, my boyfriend's cousin, who at 21 is treated and lives like a little baby, not able to do anything on his own. She does everything from laundry to food to these three men. She's proud to say she has two houses to take care of. She loves looking busy and annoyed by all her chores, but actually this is a good excuse for the fact that she put her husband out of the house when my boyfriend was 4. I heard some tapes of him recorded at that age when he would repeat again and again how bad his daddy had been to them. She poisonned the little boy to a point that when he father died some years later, the teenager that he had become never accepted to see his dying father. She commands everything. When I was there visiting, she 'forgot" to give me towels and sheets, never asked a single question about me and my famiily. When I talked about his grandmother's Alzheimer, she kept saying I don't know if this is true, aware that I am a child neurologist. She didn't stand me.
Yes, I am better off out of this situation, but what do I do with that love? Looking at him, at his green eyes, and seeing how much he loved me...why is possible to let it go? Time, time, but time is so slow, and my love is still there...his is still there...I can't stop desiring that this witch goes to hell,even if I feel guilty.
I need a heart with green eyes and a sweet smile...

Maria, your situation is heart-wrenching. It's difficult to be torn with what we know needs to be done and actually doing it. I have been in that same situation and my only advice is "go with your gut".

He may be waiting to hear from you, as I'm sure he is just as anguished over this separation as you are. In my experience, I have had to open the lines of communication when things have gone completely sour. It seems some people have difficulty being the initiater when it comes to these things.

If he is used to following "commands" from his mother, he may feel that when a woman speaks it is not to be questioned or challenged. You mentioned saying things you regret .. you told him never to call .. he may simply be obeying your wishes.

I have re-established communication through email, which I find to be a good way to "speak" to the soul from the soul. It's easier to clearly define what you feel when you have a chance to think about it (and re-read it) instead of words that sometimes go un-heard or mis-interpreted.

Whatever you decide I'm sure will be the best for you. Don't be too hard on yourself .. it's ok to go back on what you said originally, to weaken from your original stance. No one will think any less of you and you owe it to yourself if you feel the situation is worth salvaging.

Sorry to hear about that maria but the relationship between those two is pretty damn strange when she tell's him that she'll will herself to die if he moves in with you.If he's that tied to mommy's apron strings at 27 and he'll let her make all of his decisions he's obviously not capable of having any kind of normal,healthy relationship with anyone.His mother is too damn weird.You're better off without him.Imagine having to deal with that old hag for the rest of her life.I would've put a call in to Jack Kervorkian alias Jack the dripper to get rid of her!I say that from what you've been posting about him and his family that it isn't healthy for you to be involved with all that mess from them.Your better off trust me!

Hi Maria -

I'm somewhat in the same position, I really do empathise. I admire your courage.

Gillian

Normally, I would advise that you don't contact him in any way, but because these are such strange circumstances, and he really does love you, maybe you SHOULD e-mail him one more time and tell him exactly how you feel and how hard you find it to let him go. Maybe when he sees the pain he is causing someone he loves, it will finally dawn on him that there are more important things in the world than his mother's opinion. I still wouldn't call him though. Just one e-mail and wait for a response.

My pain is so huge that I had to call him and ask him again to choose us. He is still in conflict because he thinks she will die. I can't even type well, I am full of sleeping pills, trying to hide away from reality.
Oh, tomorrow will be such a horrible day. And the next day too. I loved this man too much, too intensively as I had never loved anyone before.
NOw what to do with all that?

Oh Maria. I can't say anything to make this better. In his heart he knows she won't die, he just can't bring himself to leave her.
You will recover, in spite of the pain, you do whatever you need to do to ride this out, and know, that in our hearts, you are being hugged.
Frances

I am reading all of you, and all of your words go directly into my heart. One day, when I am no longer a huge heart and when I will recovered my brain, I'll be able to classify the other messages those who talked about future into the right places.
Bertrand has made me see the world from the eyes of a sweet and innocent girl I had always carried inside of me. That's why the world had been so beautiful and simple for me up to now...his mother has turned everything up and down and now I am lost.
But I went to girl's scout when I was 8 and I remember many things that might help now; first one is not to move when you are in the dark. Wait until you see some light.
My heart is still.

Maria:

right on, girl! :)

love you

Thinking of you ...

Princessdy

Maria I started to reply to you on Friday but got interupted and couldn't finish and didnt get the time to get back here until now. Im sorry you are going through this. There seems to be alot of heartbreak going around lately. I know you are hurting so bad right now and you just don't have the heart to do anything but think about him and your situation. The first few weeks are the hardest. When Justin left at the biggining of November I felt like a big part of me died, god I didn't even get out of my pj's on my Birthday. I even made an appointment to go see someone at the mental health department because I was so depressed. It does get better though, its been 5 weeks now that he has been gone and yes it still hurts and I still miss him terribly but those moments are now getting easier to handle. We still see each other a few times a week but I just don't know how to read him. He sends me different signals from day to day, so I have decided for my own good to force myself to go on with my life and not just sit here and wait around. I do every once in a while sit down and have a good cry and its usually something stupid like a movie that sets it off, but it does feel good to let it out and I feel so much better afterwards. Only you can decide whether to put up with his mother situation or not. I would suggest that you give him some time to miss you and then maybe he will make a choice. Like everyone here has suggseted pamper yourself think of you and not him. Since he left I have given myself a new haircut, news shoes and some new cloths. I've started wearing makeup more and dressing more dressy. I know he has noticed and I have gotten alot of nice compliments. Im feeling pretty good about myself, I've even managed to loose 20lbs. I think it won't be long until he's kicking himself for what he could have had and it will serve him right if I dont want him back. Take care and feel free to PM me anytime.

Brenda

Yes, the first days are intolerable. Especially because we still love each other, and that it's only because of that horrible woman that we have to be apart.He wants to stay, but not moving in together immediately, so not to shock her. I have seen our plans changed twice because of her, and the second time I'd told him he couldn't go back on his promises. Then he did it and we broke.
Now he's desperate, I am depressed, he asks for more time I don't give it, it leads to nothing, only her personnal satisfaction. What a horrible, cruel woman.
We'll talk tonight. Do you know the talk? You (Maria) have to get a job (even thought he knows that my diploma hasn't been accepted here so far, I would have to go to France or Brussels to spend some years having it homologated) even any other jobs dealing with medecine, even in a lower degree, but those aren't easy to find either. This is a small country, very small. I feel as if either I come in a wonderful and irrefusable pack, either I am thrown away. I would like him to come to Brazil and be put in the same position.
I am not used to feeling dependent since I lelft my country. I earned my money, run my life, and here, because of love, I gave up on those things and I was still happy Love comes first for me. But it's not the case for him, we'd say.
And mommy made it sure to accentuate that problem, as if this was what could destroy us in future. Age difference? Just an excuse.

He wants to clarify some points tonight...story of proving to me that what mummy says is true, I don't have a way to support myself without depending on him for the moment and baby can't live completely cut out from his family...why do I bother going?
Because I love him? Because I dreamt of having a home with him? Of continuing to go walking together in the forests laughing all the time of our incredibly silly talks, and jokes and similarities? Because of our intimacy in bed where we would laugh and tell stories and then go wild even if we are both delicate romantics?
How is it that this woman has this power of him? Is he okay to go back to that life?
Someone help me.

Maria...Was this relationship the sole reason that you left your country? Did you move just to be with him? I'm sorry....I am a little confused and just need clarification. And what does he do for a living?
I have no idea where these men come from that are so wrapped up in their mothers they can hardly have their own lives...it is really sad.
I know that you are feeling just terrible now, and I don't know what I can say to make you feel any better at all. There have been so many women here on the boards lately who have had relationships end and are just devastated. I feel so badly for anyone and everyone who has to go through that heartbreak. My thoughts are with you... *hugs*

the dream is over, maria. it was lovely, it was sweet, and now you've awakened from the dream to cold, harsh reality in the form of MAMA.

i'm curious: did you know about mama and her possessiveness from the start? or did you just think that was a minor detail, and she would a) change her mind once she met you or b) baby boy bertrand would have the balls to stand up to her?

can't go into relationships hoping something you don't like will change. you can, however, discuss and confront the problem early on, and if the answer isn't to your liking, leave.

and what's this bullshit about YOU finding a job? you don't have to do anything, girlfriend, except dump his sorry *** and move on.

i expect yer next thread to be about a fabulous new job in another country, and a yummy young man who's crazy 'bout you and is fortunately an orphan.

dump the chump!

maria, hi there.. ive just read your post and my heart goes out to u. im in the same situation at the moment, so i know what u up against. dont these woman who call themselves *mothers* realise the harm and evil they do ? because thats exactly what they are.... is evil in its most purest form.

be strong ........... love mika x

Dear Heart... I have no answers for you only thoughts to share.

I would quit focusing on his mother. If you carry all the anger at her for him, he doesn't have to feel it and do something about it. It is usually only when we are angry enough about something that we do something to change it. Start playing like you see her side of it (do this slowly so he won't know what you are doing). Act like you understand the witches concerns. When he feels his own anger at her he will start to do something about it. If you continue to carry that anger for him, he gets to feel it through you, which is safe. He does not have to deal with his fear of her.

Also start building a life for yourself that you will have whether he is a part of the picture or not. If a guy is all I have, my life is very unbalanced and lacks security.

I think you also need to write down a list of all the great qualities that you have and read it every day (or every hour). When I go through guy troubles it is easy for me to start thinking that there is something lacking in me.

You are such a winner. Look at your courage to move to a new country! To work hard and study and become a doctor! You are a beautiful woman! If this young man lets you get away, it is his tremendous loss.

Remember a time when you did not have all this pain in your life and you felt the world was your oyster. It can be that way again. I promise. Lots of love and hugs to you. Barbara

Hi Maria, I have been following this thread and I am like Joannalee, confused.

MaiaLuxsays:
I don't have a way to support myself without depending on him for the moment and baby can't live completely cut out from his family
Does he support you? Do you live alone now and he pays the bills? When you moved there did he have a place waiting for you?
Just wondering.

Melisande said:
I expect yer next thread to be about a fabulous new job in another country, and a yummy young man who's crazy 'bout you....

....there it is irmã jovem.....I KNOW you, ....you can do this,... Bertrand was "transitional man"....move on......moooooove on! You are too luscious, too wonderful, smart, sexy and talented, to let a break-up get the better of you. Put Bertrand in his place, and his "place" was that of the man that will move you into the next phase of your life....you needed this experience to grow and change, you have!,....now get out there and let that wonderful man (whoever he may be) find YOU! :D

amar você

Sweetheart I'll go with the old saying.......when you love someone, sometimes it means letting that person go. If it's mean't to be, that someone will return, and if not......then in the long run your much better off. My love goes out to you, keep your chin up and stand tall because woman you have alot to offer!!!!

He came and pick me up tonight for a talk. I told him, if it's the old kind of conversation (usually going over the good and bad points of staying together), just drop it. Our problem is your mother, nothing else. When we got home, he called her. I said I wanted to talk to her. She said NO. But just try, mommy. NO.But why? Just NO. You know she's part of my life and things are getting serious. Yeah, she says, and you adore her, but I don't have anything to do with it, I will never accept her, you are still welcome here, not this woman. Hung up. Then I told him to remind her that there would be no more Christmas, New Years, or their more than traditionnal Carnivals either: he called again, she said, I am not even sure I'll be around at Christmas (gosh, is she going to die or what?).
I came home with my life back into my hands. I suffered a shock, I went over my limits to see if he were still worthy, and now I will observe him while preparing for being on my own again. I have a ticket to Brazil (leaving after New Year, coming back before Carnival, of course) and the time I "loose" with this story will not be more than three months. I might be gaining a whole life of love and a Love Story, and that's why I will give some more time to my man. The "boy" hopefully went down the phone line today.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Careers/Medical/Medical-03.gif
I don't depend on him financially, but if we do live together, I'll have to depend on him partially, until I have my medical degree recognized here or if I find a job as a researcher. And although I am used to higher standard of life now, I've been a foreigner student before, collected microwaves in the rich Japanese trash, travelled on backpack and Youth Hostels, nothing compared with his life now, and I will surely try to find a job here as soon as possible. But he has to know that if I stay, I'll be depending a little on him. His mother must think I am a Third World poor girl trying to find a white rich husband here, lol...if she knew about all the propositions I had here from the real rich men! But as you all may guess by my signature, I am a .....

Betsy thanks for the hours in the phone, Melisande thanks for telling Betsy, Suzie Q for telling me to come read the post, Princess Dy, you sweet person, Mimosita, and you all, you were drops of a welcome rain of love...I love you all!
http://www.rigolus.com/fichier_images/08_gifs/ga013.gif

hey you!

that "thank you" post sounded like you are signing off.....leaving.....asta la vista baby, kind of stuff....?

The thread can end if you want, but you're still hanging with us gurlz, right?.....yes?

Maria, although you don't know me, I hope you don't mind if I share my experience with you. I'm thinking that Yellow Rose might have a point in suggesting that you act as if you understand his mother's point of view. I, too, am with someone I would consider somewhat of a mama's boy. Seven and a half years ago when we got together, his mother and sister were very very upset that he would get together with someone 18 years older. I am only 7 1/2 years younger than his mother. When I found out how his mother felt about our relationship, I suggested to him that perhaps it would be best if we ended the relationship. I told him that in no way would I ever want to come between him and his mother. I told him that I didn't think our relationship would work if his mother was against it. He was the one who then worked at saving our relationship. I let him know that I was prepared to bow out. He told me that he was not about to let me go and that he knew that with time his mother would come to accept me if she didn't want to lose her only son. He was confident that she would not do anything that would cause her to lose him. He let her know that he was very much in love with me and was the happiest he had ever been in his life. It took her close to a year to come around, but she at least was cordial to me. Now, I believe, she truly is fond of me. If he cannot choose you over his mother, then, I do believe that as painful as it is, you are better off without him. My best wishes that this will all work out for you.
Flyer

Betsy, no way that I am leaving you, I am loyal like a dog! http://gifsmaniac.free.fr/animaux/chien/dog010.gif I made good friends here and you are the ones with whom I can share things that most of my friends here don't accept. I am definetely sticking around.http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/animal/1228.gif

Now, Flyer, it's true that I tried to understand his mother's shock in the beginning. I gave her time, distance, let her son do the work of proving to her that I am a good person for him, that we are both deeply in love. I offered to talk to her later. She has a very sick relationship with him http://emoticon.go2.be/crazy/1159.gif, and it's not by arguing with normal arguments that we'll get her to leave him live his life in peace.
This woman is the sole queen of two houses: to figure her better, we tried to talk to my boyfriend's divorced uncle (her brother) about it and he refused to, because she had ordered him to stay away from this "stuff". His uncle is very close to him. She tried to isolate my boyfriend, while I took him to the volleyclub as soon as these problems started, got him excited about photography lessons, and most of all I didn't leave. Other women, especially in Europe, would think to themselves, let's find something easier and better, and they do find it easily, there are plenty of young men willing to get into a serious relationship around here.
Until next confrontation, I am trusting him. Coming from where I come, not used to confrontations, I have to get stronger. I will pay attention to your stories, and as I firmly believe :Knowledge is Power

Oh, okay, so I am bad, but I will pay one day, just wanted to have this little pleasure....:p
Introducing to you, my mother-in-law:
http://www.rigolus.com/fichier_images/08_gifs/ga020.gif

hahahahahahahahaha! nope, I think it looks exactly like her! So is that a recent photo? hahahahahaha

now straight at the mama.....LOL

http://www.gifs.net/animate/blowgun.gifhttp://www.gifs.net/animate/dogz.gif
and good riddance to her!

Hope everything works out for you.

http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/violent/sterb047.gifGirls, I might not win this war, but one thing is sure, she'll have her share of headache!!!!
Coming back to serious things, as one could expect, my boyfriend is a little distant since yesterday. I know him. We spent both evenings together, cooked together, but I am sure this behaviour comes from his mother's shocking threats of killling herself or what she calls letting herself die.
It beats me the way some mothers can be cruel to their children. http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/violent/sterb048.gif I once felt so bad that I thought of dying, I was a teenager and felt lonely http://emoticon.go2.be/sad/1393.gif, but then I immediately thought of my boyfriend at that time, and I realized I couldn't give this guy such a miserable life knowing that I had died because of him. I guess this may also be called Love.
http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/love/246.gif

Betsy, yes, it's her picture, and Hot Caramel, when are you arriving in Europe? ;)

It's been my experience that when people threaten to kill themselves and they are in no other way depressed or emotionally distraught, that it's just an attention thing and an ultimatum. It's classic of sick, controlling people. You're bf shouldn't give in to it, or she'll do it to him forever, over other things and people in his life as well. He has to see this now, before she destroys any chance of happiness in his life.

It just makes me so mad that the mother from hell, can't see what a great person her son is with. My son is 33 and single, he would love to date a hot looking doctor lady. AND I would be happy for him! Your BF is so lucky to have someone like you to stand by him through all this. Does he realize how fortunate he is to be with you?

Are you ever coming to the states MariaLux? I know lots of guys would love to meet you. I don't think most mothers here are that controlling.... hope not anyway. Just remember, it is not you, it is he and his mother that have the problem. You are just an innocent bystander.
Thanks for being here.... Barbara

Yes, MariaLux, come over here! You would be happy here, I think. Get away from that dreary, sick, gothic environment with those people who seem to be characters from a Frankenstein movie. You have a vibrant personality and would probably thrive here. People in the USA , for the most part, have a fresh, optimistic outlook and a good work ethic which would be right up your alley. Your English is already excellent. Think about it.

Patricia

Oh, you wonderful women! You've made my day! I now know I have this option of going to the States to meet a prince, even though for the moment I'll stay with this one...until he proves to be just another frog .

The Japanese say that twin souls are tied together by a red thin thread...I am hoping this is our case...

Well, I have news. As mommy continues to threaten to die on Christmas day, which I don't believe she would do but anyway, I've told my boyfriend to go spend Christmas with her .

The only condition is that he will tell her why he's doing that, and that we've decided this together; I know he wanted to stay with me and at the same time he was worried about her, because it's a day when lots of people traditionally get depressed and commit suicide. I hope she'll realize how ridiculous (and sick) she's been. I'm sending her a message, that she needs help, that we are a couple that can survive being separated on Christmas day, and that I am into no ridiculous competition with her. That I've learned compassion in my life and I was not raised to hurt people. I've asked him to call me in front of her so that she knows that we love each other, that everything is okay, and that we are much more united now than before http://216.40.249.192/mysmilies/contrib/gizm0/Humping_Emoticon.gif (oh, okay, it's not the appropriate smiley, but look how cute! I had to put it somewhere...), as if we were both conspiring to get this situation into a normal level. It's too crazy the way it is right now and she must know that this is no victory for her, it just proves what a humiliating position she's chosen to put herself in. Actually I feel sorry for her.
Now, the NEWS, the good ones! I'm going to Brazil http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/party/fest30.gif to escape winter here, I'm going to spend about 7 weeks in my hometown, a subtropical paradise, with my bunch of nephews and nieces, going to the beach everyday and drinking one caipirinha (our national drinkhttp://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/gizm0/Fruit_Drink_Emoticon.gif) from time to time, and getting tanned! Well, the flesh is weak, and I need a break...if anyone doesn't know what to do or where to go, come with me, there's always another place in my mother's home http://bigcanuk.myftp.org/contrib/gizm0/Granny_Emoticon.gif

I'm sooooo glad you are going home for awhile, Maria! You need a vacation, especially from all the nonsense and grief his mother has given you.

Put some distance between yourself and this situation, let Bertrand miss you....I'm sure after a week or two he'll be thinking....hmmmmm, life with sick, crazy, cruel mommy.....or a life with luscious, sexy doctor Maria?....gee that'll be a tough one! :D

I adore you Maria, you know that, but as your friend, I'm going to take the liberty of giving you a little "reality slap", if I'm wrong, feel free to slap me back! :)

You have very generous spirit toward Bertrand and this dilemma .....do you think that maybe one of the reasons you are so <B>tolerant</B> of his ups and downs, his indecisions as well as the whole "mommy" mess .....is because you are a stranger in a strange land? You are a Brazilian.....which has got to be about 150% different from the Germans and French, eh? maybe some of your tolerance and feelings for this man come from more of a "clasping" (I avoid the word "clinging", which is not your way) to him because he is why you stay there, and all you have there in Luxemburg?

I do believe that once you are home again, surrounded by the love of your family, the beauty of your country and your own wonderful people......Bertrand and his mommy and all the crap you have tolerated for (and from) this man, will start to fade out, and you will begin to question why you stayed there so long, and why you allowed him to play this back and forth game with you.

I know you love him dearly, when we love this much, we are always so willing to put up with and accept.....so much....and to overlook the obvious problems, to ignore the little injuries to our heart, to convince ourselves that we were not really hurt by something he said or did, and make excuses for his behavior. Although this may sound harsh.....but all those things I mentioned are a form of abuse....once you allow anyone to abuse you in any form, it's a downhill slide from there. Not because the "abuser" is evil or terrible, or doesn't really love their mate, but if it was accepted and allowed once, it will be accepted again....and again.....

I should know, I allowed this "abuse" for 22 years, I finally left with about 2 cents worth of self-esteem and a lamp :) What I tolerated and allowed for 22 years was such a subtle form of abuse that I did not recognize it for many, many years....when I left, everyone was shocked.....my ex is a quiet and kind man in so many ways, but has such a multitude of "mommy" issues that it really screwed him up, and caused him to be emotionally unavailable to his wife and children. He built up his self-esteem by chipping away at mine.

If you allow Bertrand, or anyone to ever do this to you my dear, sweet friend.....I will fly to whatever country you are in at the moment, and smack you upside yo' head! Then we'll get drunk and laugh for daze :)

I will say it with smileys, since diamonds are a little bit expensive for the moment...
http://65.68.63.156/mysmilies/contrib/tweetz/hug.gif and http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/otn/love/formoso.gif for you http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/fk/hearts.gif, Betsy!
Yes, I know I am too tolerant with him, but I thought about this Christmas thing during a whole night, and instead of spending a miserable evening with him by my side worrying about his mother, I will open a bottle of champagne, have some foie gras with sweet bread and "confiture d'oignons", then spend a nice time with myself. If I am lucky some friend will stop over. What makes this day special is feeling well about yourself.
But you are right about my trip, I might not come back at all! :) Thank you for your words, Betsy, I need to keep a critical eye on my situation, that's certain. Love is beautiful, but can make you nuts...especially if you are Brazilian, then you are half way there (you know, Brazilian nuts...http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/contrib/dday/whatever.gif )

Hey, Steve...
We've got internet in Brazil!!
http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons/happy/028.gif
I'll be coming here maybe even more often, you may be sure!

Well Baby, Brazil is very near of Venezuela...... Maybe we can spend some time together..... Maybe we can meet each other in person, and have some "Samba" dance or "Joropo" dance ...., that will be WODERFUL!!!! My home is open for you.(For all of you too)

Betz, you put it very well. Maria needs to be with her family in her "space" to think more clearly about Bertrand.

Bueno Querida!!! See you soon..... (i really hope so!!!!!)


Love

MIM

Mim, I have friends who have been to Venezuela, they just fell in love with it...and with the girlshttp://smilies.crowd9.com/otn/funny/gorgeous.gifhttp://smilies.crowd9.com/otn/funny/gorgeous.gifhttp://smilies.crowd9.com/otn/funny/gorgeous.gif! What do you eat over there :D ??Must be something secret!
By the way, we never hear about your men, how are they? Good looking? ;)
For someone who started this thread so sad, I must say I am surprised at myself...life is a roller coaster...

I WANT TO GO TOO ... Let's all meet in either Brazil OR Venzuela ... ha, ha ... either would be fine with me ... :)

Princessdy

Okay, the invitation is then official, who's coming?

Look, I already put my sunglasses on for the beach Maria. I won't go to Europe, cause it's cold and rainy now, but Brazil or Venezuela, I am there sister friend!!! I want to do the Samba.


http://www.gifs.net/animate/plane2u.gif

BTW, we are not going topless or anything, are we?

Hotcaramel, I am not sure but I think that topless is still illegal in Brazil...yes we are moralists, lol
http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/party/fest09.gif Did you know that in Carnival all those half-naked girls you see have to start the parade dressed to cover breasts and of course the most sensible parts, because of the strict law against nudity? But then, something strange happens every year , their bras and even their panties just fall down, by accident of course, especially in front of the cameras! Nobody can sue them, it's an accident, all that samba and sweat, and they are up there in those allegory cars, it's impossible to find their fallen clothes...

I was there only for few days in 1977 while traveling with my ex. Our ship stood in La Guaira ( I think??) where we went to a great disco. It was complitely dark there and waiters had small flashlights. We drank rum with small green lemons and danced ..
Next evening there was a band playing in the park and people were singing and dancing there - everybody very friendly. There were some very good looking guys - but I was then married girl...
We've met Polish musician there who wanted to help us stay there (to escape from Poland). My ex wanted , I didn't . My daughter was in Poland; I would never stay without her.

But I liked very much what I've seen there..

Go, MariaLux, see Venezuela.. it's so close... Treat yourself, meet new people, enjoy!!!

BTW, my exs was cheating on me a lot. He said once that the best girl he had, was Brasilian. The town was Santos..

Telimena

Oh my, Telimena, I am from Santos and I am the best Brazilian around (pssst, there's another Brazilian in this site!!), what's your ex-husband's name again? :D :D But I don't think I've ever dated a Polish, unless I had too much wine that day? ;)

Maria, he was there I think in 1976, so you were a baby at that time... Also, he was there for 3 days only, so they didn't really date.. it was definitely an adventure, but he liked it a lot... so much, that he had to tell his beloved wife about it..

Telimena

Maria, would you tell me what the term " ischemic changes" means? Cannot find that term in my Webster.

Thanks.

Telimena

Ischemia means any interruption of the blood flow. In general we talk about arterial ischemia. It can happen anywhere, brain, heart, legs, retina. If the shortage of oxygen is important you might have a stroke, cardiac or brain stroke. I hope that helps, but if you need more info, pm me!

Ischemic changes, are the changes caused by the lack of oxygen consequent to the interruption of the blood circulation.

Me! Me! I wanna go!

My folks went to Belize a couple of years ago. Is that near Brazil? It is supposed to be the best diving in the world.

I've always wanted to dance topless at a wild Brazilian festival, like they do on E! Entertainment television. The music is always so uplifting and fun!

Oh, Polly, you are welcome! I am also sure that my brother will fight to host you if he reads your post! :D But if Robin reads it too, I think you are not coming alone, LOL, although we always say in my country that we don't bring a cake to a party!
By the way, democracy is well installed in Brazil, meaning that it's not only men that are happy with the view, but women too!
All those gorgeous men playing beach volley .... :)

ooooooo i can SO relate....this really isn't about the 'age-gap' thing..this is just a mother unable to be healthy enough to let her son be an adult...and an adult son who still functions as the CHILD. BELIEVE me....LET HIM GO!! I was involved for six years with a man in this very same situation....i loved him desperately, it was NOT an age-gap relationship...but in the end he COULD not leave MOM . She placed so much shame/guilt on him for doing so that EVER leaving and cleaving to ANOTHER woman will forever be a problem for him. She would also create CRISIS to draw him in if she felt he was emotionally leaving her...creating fake and real illness...threatening suicide...etc. It sounds like the same situation with you....:(. Unfortunately, such abuse by the mother creates a co-dependent child-adult scenario and you would never have been able to have a healthy relationship.....well unless MOM and son both sought help...which doesnt sound like it was gonna happen in the NEAR future. My EX finance's mother has been in counseling for over 26 years...but tends to leave and hire a new therapist if the questions get too personal...like WHAT DO U THINK YOU ARE DOING THAT MIGHT BE CAUSING SUCH CHAOS FOR YOUR FAMILY!! GRRRRR....I will NEVER keep any of my children from being the adults they NEED and should be.....but some women and MEN.....can't see it because FAMILY makes the whole situation too close. I'm praying for you and wishing you the best in moving forward so that you might have the relationship you deserve and desire.....sing.

Oh my gosh, I'm packing my bags. The kids and I will stay at a local hotel with a pool. I know you don't have that much room in your home for the three of us and everyone else. But we will come hang out with you everyday. And if you head up to Venezuela to see Mimi, we're coming there too.

Do I need sunscreen? Oh, don't worry, I'll bring it anyway. Hmm what can I bring you from Oregon? Hazelnuts! Yes, we have hazelnut chocolate, hazelnut coffee, hazelnut creamers, hazelnut everything. They will go well with your brazilian nuts.

Whewy!! We're gonna have a party!!

Cindy

Cindy mentioned Brazilian nuts! I'm ready to be a Brazilian nut for a weekend! :D Can you imagine how much fun we'd all have if we joined Maria for carnival?

I shudder to think ... Read the headlines ...

"AGELESSLOVE BEAUTIES SET LOOSE AT CARNIVAL ... BEWARE ... ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN ... "

So don't forget ... put me on list of attendees ... count me in!

Princessdy :D

Singalou, when I suffered the shock of breaking up with him this last time, I suffered so much that my only thought was to get back together and to make him see the truth once again about his mother's manipulation. He sees it when I explain what is not right, but then she pulls him into her crazyness again, and he looses his clear view of the situation. I have to constantly remind him of it. I am getting tired of this situation and I hope he will help me to help him, otherwise this is not going to work. Going to Brazil is a way to make him miss me and remind him of how miserable he was before I met him, when he had to spend all his weekends with that woman, http://emoticon.go2.be/sleep/schla18.gif always complaining about everything, pessimistic, telling him that life sucks. Not a very pleasant person to be around...
Now, Polly and Cindy, I won't be staying there for carnival this year, I come back before, but don't worry, Carnival is a state of mind over there!
http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons/happy/072.gif

A little late, but i´m here!!!!!
Venezuela are having political problems right now, but for carnival all will be OK!!!
The girls here are beautiful because we eat " AREPAS" (are made of corn flour and inside you can put whatever you want: Cheese, jam, eggs, pepperoni, etc) my favorite is "Reina Pepeada"(Chicken with avocado and mayo) that always go direct to my big latinamerican butt......

Teli, you just saw a little!!! we are very kind and funny, things are change since you were here, but for better. I hope you can come someday and see it with your own eyes.

We have greeeeeeaaaat beaches here and WoW!!!!! men too.
Princess you are welcome, just bring your bathsuit, sunglasses, sunblock and Voila!!!!.

An air ticket from here to Brazil cost $800.
:(
but maybe i can afford it.

I´m still dreaming about "1st Internanational Ageless love encounter" in Los Roques Island.(Why not??????!!!!!)

Maria, hang it there, you are doing it very well.

Lots of love!!!
MIM

http://216.40.249.192/mysmilies/contrib/tweetz/scared.gif Mim, this is unbelievable, it's about the same price as a ticket from Luxembourg to Brazil!!!!!
Isn't this a real real shame?

Yes Maria thats the cost of a trip from Caracas to Sao Paulo.
Remember, Brazil is enormous!!!! And from Caracas to Sao Paulo its almost the same distance from Caracas to Spain.
Its costs less if i go to Manaus.

MiM

I just came back from Brazil yesterday. On my last day over there, my boyfriend called me to say that he will be spending carnival with mom. Some of you might know that this was supposed to be a time where he would finally face her and stand for me. To make a long story short, carnival has been a tradition in his family since he was born and not being there without me (since she said I am not welcome anymore after learning my age) would show her how much I meant in his life. He had promised me he would not go without me. Do you remember how I had spent Christmas all alone so that she would not commit suicide as announced? Well, this time it´s too much for me...Now I see that I will never be a priority in his life.
I am free. I chose not to try to be understanding anymore. After all, missing Carnival should be a reason for me to commit suicide, being Brazilian, not that poor b...
I feel miserable, it´s true, but it will pass...

My beloved Maria!

I have not spoke with for quite some time... we have both been SO busy! But I want you to know, that I feel for you, care for you mucho....and am here if you need anything!

Email me when you get the chance!

love you dearly,
Betsy

Maria, I'm so sorry to hear that! He'll be living with Mom until he's sixty! You're right not to sit around and wait. There are millions of men on the planet, too many to sit around and wait on Mama's Boy. You are a sweet, sexy, INTELLIGENT woman. A whole country of men would give their right arms to spend their days making you happy. Trust in the abundance of the Universe, LOVE YOURSELF, and go out there and expose yourself to all the possibilities.

Betz! Nice to see you! Hope all is well with you. :)

Girls, you bring tears to my eyes because your words are full of love...thank you for being there for me! http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/ez/ezpi_sad.gif
And Polly, you must be right, there are so many sweet men out there that can make me feel like a queen...I will just keep a door open...
http://216.40.249.192/s/kao/otn/pmimioja.gif

Oh poor Maria,
Yes there is nothing further for you to do, he has chosen his Mother. It may seem bad, but in the end it will all work out, weither you are the woman for him or not.
He has made his choice it may not seem like the right one, but it was his choice.
Much hugzz to u!!

Our dearest Polly....you are so freakin' RIGHT! :)

I remember 2 words of advice my sister gave me many years ago while I was in the middle of a divorce to my ex of 22 years....and those words have stuck with me since she said "push on"

2 simple little words, but they are so right on....push on sweet Maria, you deserve "o melhor" ....and you know it!

As Polly said; love yourself, go out there....meet new people!

talk soon

Hi, I'm new here and just read this thread. Maria, I can relate. I am hated by my YM's mother and she's never even met me. We've communicated via email only and she's is totally against the relationship (I'm 37, he is 19) and thinks I am a totally immoral pedophile. She has also told me she has started taking anti-anxiety meds to help deal with the fact that I'm destroying her family. My YM has basically been told it's either them or me and now is torn with "keeping the peace" at home and trying to be with me as soon as he can...he's trying to get his parents to accept our relationship, which I fear will never happen. I'm basically helpless to do anything but sit and wait here in NJ while he's still in MO and I don't know when I will ever get to see him and if so, will he be "banished" from his family...which would be a guilt I would carry forever.

You are indeed a strong woman; I only hope I have a fraction of your strength to help me through the coming months.

:)

http://216.40.249.192/s/otn/sad/toska.gif Yeah, Liz, there is a limit to everything in life, I know he has pushed mine to a point they had never been pushed before.
http://138.121.52.29/otn/sad/smily77.gif I loved him, now I am just hurt; love has been smashed by the betrayal and a big question remains: how could he? He was completely accepted by my family, treated like a prince, everybody showed him what hospitality means. I had never been treated like that in his family, even when they didn´t know all about our age difference.
http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/dday/nope.gif Carry, I am not strong but I have some sense of self-preservation. I had fought a lot for this relationship to work, often I let my needs come in second place so that the couple´s future would be easier. It came to a sad point where I was doing all the efforts, the hard ones, to lift what I thought was a big burden for him. Actually I was carrying all the burden all alone. Love can´t be that difficult, and even less that unilateral. I was struggling to save the couple while nobody was taking care of me...
Our relationship was not only an age-gap one; it was also a "love dimension"-gap one, and I was the one loving too much.

Loving too much? Don't you DARE say that Maria! You loved with all your heart....damn gurl, you opened a vein for Bertrand....you gave and you gave! Loving too much is not the problem,.....loving an emotional unavailable man IS!

Please don't start blaming yourself.....you did the best you could do....but like Polly said, now you're free....free from the stress and strain of keeping a relationship together!

Hi Blondie! I know it's been ages since I've had the chance to hang with me girlfriends.....I've missed all you too! :)

Huge Hugs Maria .......... I am so saddened that he has decided to chose his mother over u . It is his lose, tho' as he will never find what u have given him again ........... U r a wonderful person Maria, there will be someone out there for u, someone a thousand times better then Bertrand ....

Again Huge hugs, I know u hurt right now, but the pain will pass my friend........


Much love an hugs Leigh

Betz, you are right, we never love too much, we love or we don't; and when we do, we never know the results...in my case, it was pain mixed with pleasure, but never the feeling of security. Again and again I came second in his life, second to someone that never respected his choice: this miserable woman who never loved anyone but herself.
He's 28 and acts like 13. How could I trust my life to this man?
No matter what people like to say, when you are with someone your happiness does depend on him. We are not islands, we depend on each other to be happy, yes sir! We shouldn't impose on others to make us happy, but expect that their actions will never reach our souls and that we'll be happy despite the harm they do to us is just illusion.
He wrote this morning saying he did what was right because everyone in his family is depressed. His uncle is depressed over his divorce proceedings, where he might lose a house, his cousin is doing therapy for not being able to find a girlfriend and his mother will finally have an over announced operation to remove her uterus and her ovaries (or most likely just the ovaries, and this is nothing serious, has been diagnosed and proposed over a year ago). Only Maria's pain is not worthy considering in this story. Maria spent Christmas alone, was called names by mom and best friend (whom he met while I was in Brazil, supposedly just to make things clear that what the guy did was not correct, calling me names and telling lies to mom; but all this had been told before by phone), Maria had to hear from her sweetheart last July that he was not sure he could live with the fact she can't have children...fact he has known since the beginning, more than two years ago.
He wrote saying he loves me. That he had so spend and play carnival with them so that I wouldn't be definetely banned from the family for ruining their most important time of the year.
I guess I should be thankful he thougth of my acceptance! God knows how much I want to be part of that family...:D
I am not okay. I feell rage. This is good, this will take me far away from him, and as I told him, for me it's over, I could never trust any of his words or promises again. But if I can love, others can, I am not that special :rolleyes: and sooner or later I will be able to find my soulmate. Have to clean my eyes...

I too am sorry for your heartache. Don't we wish that the caring of others would ease our pain, but it doesn't really. Please believe me that the price of being with this man would be far too high. I have been with someone ten years that I have never come first with. It is not nice to know you are always the last to be considered. I didn't really notice how little I mattered until I became a stay home mom in June. I worked shift work and often weekends so was busy in my free time with my own stuff. Today I am off to complete preparations to return to school. I am scared to death because this will be a drastic change in careers for me. But you know what? I can do it, I must do it for my two kids still at home. My fears are nothing compared to my desire to continue to provide them with the best I can. We can't change anyone else, no matter how much we would like to, we can only change ourselves and it's very hard to accept sometimes. I wish you the very best, you will find that special someone, keep your eyes open. :cool:

It's true that the pain doesn't go away despite all the nice words from friends. Today he spent the day trying to convince me by mail that he loves me, that he wants us to move together, but when I asked him to come back tonight, he said he couldn't; this would destroy his family's carnival. It doesn't matter whether I am hurting or not. I am not important enough for that.
How stupid one gets before he finally sees the reality and accepts it? I feel so lost. I almost let myself go with his words and new promises!!! Worse than that I still hope he will call tonight to say "I am here, I came for you"...isn't that completely insane?
Is it lack of self-steem? Lack of self-respect? Lack of hope? Obsession? I guess it's all of that plus an incredible fear of being rejected. It's like the more I am rejected the more I want that person to love me...I am fragile after all.
:(

You know, Maria, I don't think that your young man really realizes how serious you are. You have had this issue with his mother for so long, and you have always been the one who sacrifices and puts on the strong act. You have always just kind of let it go and tried to accept it the best you could.
I think that he does love you, and he probably thinks that this issue with the carnival will be a sticky point for a while, but then everything will work out and you will let it go. I wonder if he knew just how serious you are if he will still be acting the same. What do you think?
Also, I am awful sorry for your heartache. I know how badly you are feeling right now. I also feel sorry for your young man, for having a mother who makes him choose between his love for you and his loyalty to his family and parents. She does not put his needs first, and she does not seem to care about his happiness.
*hugs* to you Maria. I am so sorry. Please keep us updated on what happens.

I think that he does love you, and he probably thinks that this issue with the carnival will be a sticky point for a while, but then everything will work out and you will let it go. I wonder if he knew just how serious you are if he will still be acting the same. What do you think?
Joannalee, I think you understood him better than I did. Today I told him to come back immediately or it would be really finished, that I would not give him any further chances, and still he continued to talk as if I had said nothing at all. He decided that going there would be good for us because it would not put those people in rage against me and he didn't consider my opinion even for a minute. Then, even though he acknowledged that their opinion about me won't change, not ever, he would not come back. He assures me he loves me. I don't feel safe with his kind of love, but things had been so wonderful during our dream vacation that just ended, and during the times people leave us in peace, that it's hard not to believe his words saying I am the woman for him and that we should go now for the next step and live together. My conscious side says don't go, there will be other Christmas, other carnivals. My loving and romantic side says, he won't do this if you are living under the same roof...things will be different.
I am a typical libra, or a typical woman, or a typical human being, whatever, I just can't avoid being torn between these two different paths, leaving or staying, because both of them are me, both will bring tears, possibly love. But maybe one of them will bring me more peace than the other.

I remember your enthusiasm before you left to Brasil.. where B. suposed to join you - regardless of his mommy's objections.

I am sorry, Marie.. you are such a giving and deserving soul; it hurts to see you suffering..

But there are always positives in every situation; you are no longer have to accomodate, to adjust your life to B. limited availability. You suffer now, yet you can be very rational if you just put your mind to it; live YOUR life now and it shall bring you rewards you deserve.

Hugs and kisses,

Teli

Well, hun, then I guess you just have to sit down and think real hard...
What if you did move in together, and everything was great, but he did do this same behavior about his mother and carnival and Christmas...
Is that something that you could accept? It comes down to that same old thing, how much are we willing to sacrifice or how much are we willing to put up with.... and how important is this issue to you.
I think you are right, I don't think he is hearing you. Like you said, he just acted like you did not say anything.
You are thinking, if he really loves me he would see how important this is to me and stay home, and I can almost bet he is thinking the same exact thing, if she really loves me she will see how important this is to my family. *sigh* It sure is a hard situation. My thoughts are with you.

Try to help me understand "Carnival". In my mind, he is drinking and dancing, having a great time. If it is different than that, please enlighten me. What I'm thinking is, "If this was Lenten or something, would he be so Hell bent on staying with his family??? Carnival sounds like a festival of some kind, full of fun, and something a partying individual would not want to leave."

His mother, by the way, should get an Emmy Award for "Best Actress in a daytime drama"!!! That whole suicide thing was absolutely ridiculous. I'll bet if your ym had put his foot down, she'd have eventually succumbed, and treated you with respect, if nothing else, to keep her in good standings with her son.

Start dating, Maria, even if your heart isn't all the way in it, and every time that ym calls, tell him, "I'm sorry, but I'm on my way out the door to meet a date!" That brings men around pretty quickly. He finally realizes he might very well lose you forever to someone else, and he jumps to the challenge and tells Mama he's not willing to lose the love of his life!!!

If he calls, you're leaving for a date, and he doesn't change, then he never will, and better to find it out now then to wait and waste any more time. You're way to valuable for that! ;)

Telimena, thanks for the welcome! Yes I was very excited with the trip and it was great, indeed, my family loved him, he got very well with my nieces and nephews, he loved the country and the people and yesterday he told me it was the best trip he's ever done.
http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/sarge/Looking_anim.gif Joannalee, are you a psychologist? You have to stop reading my mind, give me some privacy here, please!!! :D :D Yes, you got it all right, I am thinking okay, I take him back, but what about next Christmas and next Carnival? That b...http://smilies.crowd9.com/contrib/ruinkai/FIREdevil.gifhttp://smilies.crowd9.com/contrib/ruinkai/FIREdevil.gif will put us under pressure, act her dramatic role again as Polly perfectly put it, and nice Maria will be alone again??? Always fighting that horrible woman? http://216.40.249.192/s/otn/violent/sword2.gif No way. I don't want this kind of life.
Polly, Carnival in Brasil is all about having fun and sex for most of the population (some psychologists even tell people not to expect too much from carnival in terms of sex because after carnival plenty of people complain of deep frustration if they didn't find a partner, can you believe this?). If he were in Brasil I would never let him go all by himself, even if his mother loved and adored me, because you have to be completely nuts http://e4u.consoleradar.com/crazy/1087.gif to let your man all alone in such a festival...In Binche, his city, it's all about tradition. They say they have fun, but with this cold and all those clothes they have on, I don't believe it. Anyway their carnival has been celebrated for centuries and to be part of it you have to come from a family with that tradition, born in that place, etc, etc. He has been part of it since he was 4 and he's not the only one in the family of course. I understand how important it is for his family, I just don't accept that this is more important than our relationship. I am definetely "putting him in the refrigerator for some long long time!" And yes, a date, why not? Plenty of guys were looking at me today in the street, I guess my tan is working ;)

Aww Maria, you're such a great person, you really don't deserve to be put second to anyone.
I'm so sorry his Momma can't just let him live.
I'm very close to my sons too, they both still say I love you when they talk to me, but I have a feeling if I started throwing fits and trying to manipulate their lives, they'd be seeing less and less of me. Maybe because I didn't raise them that way? I just don't understand that concept. I thought the whole point of having children was to raise them to stand on their own, and make their own choices, and live independant lives.
You do what you need to do to do whatever grieving you have to do, but do start enjoying whatever life has to offer you. You're a prize anyone should be grateful to have.
Hugs, Frances

I should hang out with girls like you, really. Bella and Trish, thanks for the words, thank you all.
http://e4u.consoleradar.com/happy/050.gif I had a wonderful day today. I met my Brazilian girlfriend http://e4u.consoleradar.com/fam/fam05.gif who has a beautiful heart and knows how to listen, and later had lunch at a Japanese restaurant http://www.tcwozere.co.uk/~cracks/kao/otn/pnoodles.gif with a guy who knows my story and knows Bertrand, too. He was surprised to see how calm I am right now. After getting a red lipstick http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/love/1227.gif since mine had melt in Brazil I bought a nice fish and cooked it with vegetables in the oven. I saw a thriller movie on TV where lots of people were being killed one after the other (to give me inspiration since I found out I am Charles Manson - see the thread Criminals in the chit chat section) and called some of my friends.
I miss him, but not too much, it's strange. I think he really went too far this time, so far I can't see him anymore...

Amiguinha!!!!
BIG HUG for my sweet Maria Lux!!!
I´m so sorry about what is happening with B.
I think he really loves you but he can´t put you in the place you have to be, and for me that is not enough love. (i live the same situation with my 1st husband).
Take you time, date, and never forget that you deserve the best.
Pls do not feel guilty or bad about Loving so much someone, thats wonderful, be happy of be capable of that, feel sorry for that men or women that an´t love the way we do. WE ARE ALIVE!!!!!!.
You know that i´m trough hard times now with my YM. I feel very sad, i feel rage. but i have time to take care of my dear friend.
Love You and be strong!!!
MIM.

PS Betz i´m so happy to see you again, I missed you so much!!:(

Mim, you are so sweet, I know how hard it must be to face daily life when you feel hurt inside and I thank you for still worrying about me.
Tomorrow an English friend of mine is coming to take me to a nice restaurant and to have a good conversation afterwards. He could be my father, and that's what I need right now, so I am not calling it a friendly date, but a therapy day. What would we do without friends?

I just read all your posts, and it's 02:21 am here, so I'll be brief as I must get some sleep:
I noticed you were wondering about some things, such as why you took as much "waffling" from him, etc. There is a site, www.askdrlove.com where you will find your answers just by reading a whole lot of DR's responses to letters she gets (3 per week). There are numerous letters there.
As for my own answer to your wondering, because I have dealt with what you went through: Your mistake was-and is- that you never allowed Bertrand to BELIEVE that you meant what you said.
You probably never MEANT it either, because you would have been a lot more resolute in having no contact with him if you did mean what you were saying to him. You seem to have assumed an 'enabler's" role, or a "co-dependent's" role, where you participate in his problem, instead of letting him deal with it all by himself. In essence, you have been mothering him in a way, by telling him what to do and how to do it and how to act. This never works, even in relationships without obsessive mothers like his.
If you let the man deal with the problem all by himself, he feels ALL the responsibility on his shoulders, he feels like a MAN, not a BOY who's coached by a kind, gentle mother.
Believe me, the day that you will face him calmly, and you will calmly tell him "I am truly tired of how you treat me and our relationship, so I am now looking for a man who is really available to have a real relationship with me. I know I will find him very soon. I do not desire futher contact with you", -IF YOU CAN MEAN THE WORDS- he will believe you for the first time, a little bit. then, the next day, week, that he will try contacting you in vain, he will believe it more and more. Then, he will feel either a) relief or b)panic and pain. If he feels relief, he will sink into his crazy household, relieved of the guilt he was feeling. If he feels panic and pain, he will take action. He will do whatever he has to do to get you, like break up with his master (mommy). This guy needs therapy. She has immersed him in guilt, and controls him through making him feel guilty. She is a TOXIC parent. She is able to invoke such great anxiety in him, that he cannot "feel right" until he satisfies her and his anxiety subsides. It's time that YOU give him an even bigger anxiety than mommy, and that is the only way. He still needs therapy though, so that he can understand deep inside that it's not love or family tradition that keeps him tied to her, but fear, shame, and guilt.
I have worked in Psychiatry for years, and you have a greatly descriptive way of writing, so you gave a very clear picture. Please realize that he can't take you seriously, when you voice complaints from one side, and see and talk and coach him from the other. Men only respect and take seriously women who quitely tell them what they will not put up with, and then FOLLOW THROUGH WITH ACTIONS THAT PROVE THAT THEIR WORDS WERE TRUE.
Honestly, this is your only chance and the only way to save this relationship. He can, and should, get his mommy out of his life, if he wants a life, but he has to figure this out by himself, all alone. That's when it will count, and he may just rebel at how he's losing his love due to his mother's pressure. Please listen to me and do it (((((((hug))))))))
Almeiraz

"Toxic parents", the book by susan Forward, will be invaluable to him. Not just for understanding that often parents cause great harm to their children, but also because it will tell him in detail how to face her, what to do and what to say. You can give him this book as a parting present. That book is the next best thing to therapy.
Almeiraz

Almeiraz, I will never be able to thank you enough. You brought tears to my eyes, not only for this immense act of kindness of reading this long thread and then taking the time to think about it and write all these wonderful insights. I felt as if I were in therapy with you. You saw clearly through my heart, and your timing is so good, because yesterday I had to face a half-destroyed boy (yes, not a man) who came to my door to try to explain me why he had to to do what he did, breaking the promise. His reasons were the usual, to try to get things smoother with mom so that she wouldn't hate me even more, but the results this time were worse, because for the first time she made fun of him in front of all his carnival friends, asking him why he didn't bring his girlfriend, that she would gladly receive her...he was in pain, she knew it, and she knew also I had put an end to the relationship, and her only worry was whether we were coming back or not. He came yesterday and he did seem relieved that I had decided to break with him, at the same time he looked more than miserable.
I did coach him; I do it all the time. I show him books, I tell him not to lie to her, not to try to use the same technique as she does, meaning blackmailing her emotionally as he tried to do this time. I knew deep inside I shouldn't do it, not as much for him, thank you for showing me that it's not helping him, but for me, since I am never sure whether he would have done that for us or whether he did it just because I told him to do so. It's what happened yesterday. Two days ago he begged me to stay with him and go live with him, he was ready to face his mother. Then after I broke and explained why, and this time I did mean to leave him, he suddenly resigned himself to my decision and told me crying all he wanted was for me to be happy and that he thought I would be better off in Brazil working as a doctor. I was shocked to see how he was able to even imagine me going back to my country, despite the fact that I know he was right, I would be better there. But I am romantic and I am always happier living in love than living in peace. If I could get both, that would be wonderful. Again you were right when you said that he might feel relieved by my decision. He did. He also felt desperate, and that's why he came here. I told him we have to face it together or let it go. You see, I did it again, I renounced to my previous decision, which he had partially accepted, because I saw hope. Now I can't be sure whether he would have chosen to stay or had already accepted the rupture.
He's so confused and tortured by this woman's cruelty that it revolts me and makes it hard to leave him to face this monster by himself. She raised him to obey him and I was the first person to open his eyes, that's what he told me yesterday.
I will buy this book this afternoon and give to him as soon as it gets here.
I would like to tell you that yesterday when he was here, and we were both crying facing his weakness, I prayed to God and to his grandfather, who passed away many years ago and simply adored my boyfriend, to help us. I am sure you are one of the answers to my prayers, thank you very much.

Almeiraz .....
no words to say that you are RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
If we can do that when we have to i´m sure things go better what ever the way they take.

Pls keep posting your wisdom!!!!

Thanks.

MIM

PS MariaLux try hard to follow what Almeiraz said i feel that the things can work.

Thank you for accepting my jumping into your life! I noticed that you all are wonderfully supportive and sweet, whereas I am more an " analyst" of things and a "problem solver". Perhaps I was meant to appear here-I never knew this board before, and just put "relationship boards" in Google last night, chose this one, and this thread out of a number of threads that I read. It jumped right out at me how bad the situation was, and how you were "supporting" Bertrand -albeit unwittingly-to stay exactly as he was. I hope you realize that this is a two-faced problem: 1. He has a problem of being "guilted' into submission, and 2. you have a problem of a) accepting poor treatment from a man and b)wanting to solve HIS problem FOR him. As you probably know, once a problem is understood and defined, it can then be solved, but not until then!
I used to be "you" Maria, so deeply afraid of rejection, and so CONTROLLING of the guy in my gentle, convincing way. I did not know the wide meaning of "controlling" either. I thought it meant 'telling him what to do", ordering him around" , "checking up on him", all the things I was not doing. Little by little I started realizing that it also meant "making his problem OUR PROBLEM", "trying to tell him how to solve it in ORDER FOR THE OUTCOME TO BE WHAT I WANTED".
This saved my life.
Because I realized this, I have now been in the greatest relationship I've ever had, for 3 1/2 yrs, with a man 14 yrs younger than me, who is an absolute dream-loving, funny, respectful, totally faithful, a great lover, handsome as you would never believe, and totally unencumbered by any other woman. I am 53 yrs old. He too was terrified of his mother. This is what I did: I thought about it and planned my approach: I told him that many mothers see their sons as a possession, and as the "man" in their life. That they can suck the lifeblood of the son's life, if he lets them. I gave him the book "Toxic Parents", telling him how much it helped me not feel guilty for not loving my own mother. Then, when Thanksgiving came, and he was going to be with his mother without inviting me because "she might be nasty to me" as he said, ALL I cheerfully said was " Wonderful! I hope you all have a great time and eat delicious things!". Not a word about myself-so this forced him to ask " What will you do on Thanksgiving Day?"
"I've been invited by my ex-boyfriend's mother to their home. She always invites me for holidays, like Christmas etc.".
He asked me "Is your ex-b/f going to be there?"
I said "Oh, they all gather at their home on those days."
He said "Won't it be too far for you to drive there and back?"
I said "Oh, I was told that I can spend the night there, so that's what I'll do...."
He said "But why do you have to go there, you saw me last weekend!".
I said "Baby, I have no desire to spend Thanksgiving alone just because my boyfriend is afraid of his mother. You are free to do what's best for you, and I will do what's best for me!".
The next day, he called me to say he'd spend Thanksgiving with me. He has spent ALL holidays with me since. Plus, because I'm not afraid of his mother, I asked him to invite her to my home for Christmas, she came, and we had a great time. I'm sure my unafraid attitude got through to her-I was facing her as another woman guest in my home, not as "the mother of my boyfriend".
she has been invited here again, and it's great, she brings me gifts too. I have no idea what she thinks of me-because I don't really care, it's irrelevant.
All I know is that I have impressed upon her son that he IS FREE TO DO WHAT HE WANTS, BUT IF I DON'T LIKE IT, I WILL DO MY OWN THING, INCLUDING LEAVING HIM. THIS HAS MADE HIM FEEL RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR RELATIONSHIP.
On the other hand, I have been the most sweet, supportive, praising, respectful, friendly, sexy woman he could have, which made him love me and not want to lose me. He spends all his free time with me. Just for your information, he used to spend EVERY weekend, from Friday to Sunday, with her, until 3 months after he met me.
So, after many relationships and marriages where I was afraid to be assertive as I am with him, but was instead "controlling", I have found the magic recipe: State freely what I want, mean it, not worry at all about his reaction, be ready to back up my words with action if he did not give me what I want.
If Mohamet does not go to the mountain, the mountain goes to Mohamet. You are Mohamet, and you go to the mountain until now. So, the mountain has no reason to come to you. You're not giving the mountain the chance to come to you. You're always there!:o
What's more, you don't know to this day if his love for you has "teeth" (substance).
You have to let him feel your absence, miss you, realize what you mean to him, and make his own choices. You have not let him feel any of these things. You have cheated him out of feeling his own feelings and making his own decisions. This can take as long as 3 months. That's usually how long it takes for a guy to BELIEVE that he's lost you, especially if in the past he has always managed to get you to see him and talk to him.
Crying together and such may be very emotional, but are weak things. He can only feel his most powerful emotions when he KNOWS that he's ALONE AND LOST YOU. But you are afraid of finding out the truth whether he really loves you, afraid of losing him, it makes you controlling, and the benefit to you is that this way, you manage to AVOID the RISK of finding out that he may be a wimp after all.
I swear, you will discover a most enjoyable way to be once you behave as I write here. You will feel empowered, and it WILL show right away. You will not get angry, and you will not try to make him think as you want by using your logic, tears, or any other kind of manipulation. You will simply state calmly what you want, and what you will do if you don't get it. This is power-the kind of power that makes him respect you, LIKE you, and allows him to feel like a man and not a boy. It shows him that you will respect his decision about his mother, whatever it may be, but you will also go your own way if his decision does not fit into how you want youir relationship to be. Then he will have to choose what to do not because YOU tell him, but because he has no other choice BUT to choose.
What do you think?

Create your dream FIRMLY in your mind-I'm thinking it would be like this:
You and Bertrand move to Brazil together, you resume your lucrative child Neurologist parctice, and he-tasting FREEDOM FOR THE FIRST TIME- bossoms into a wonderful man. Your family already loves him, and he finds out what a REAL family is like, instead of the severely disfunctional one he has.
If this is your dream, you make a resolution to yourself: THIS IS WHAT I WANT, THIS IS WHAT WILL MAKE ME CONTENT, AND I ACCEPT NO LESS.
You see, if you don't start with what you want, you allow life and other people to decide what happens to you. It should start with you alone-period. Having a dream like that will make you make choices and act in ways that can bring that dream about, or NOTHING. But you will not be in any half-way situations, full of uncertainty and back-and-forths.
To put it simply: It is a sequential matter:
1. You form your dream exactly as you want it.
2. This makes you act in ways that facilitate its actualization.
3. It makes you discard things that do not help your dream.
4. It makes you embrace only things that help your dream.
5. Your strong conviction influences other people.
6. Your subconcious always works towars your dream.
7. Your dream has all the help it needs to become reality.

If you only had 1 Rule to follow, it should be:
If a relationship is good for me, it is becauses it enriches my life. If a relationship does not enrich my life, it is not good for me.

You can do your part by having good rules to go by in a relationship, and being as good to him as you can without ever putting what is right and what you want second to him, but the man HAS to play his part too. He is the other 50% of the equation, and you have to allow him to choose whether to play his part or not.
Being loving, warm, and sexy with a man is one thing. Allowing him to strangle you with HIS problem is entirely another, and love does not require you to do it.
Love is never unconditional-that is a complete fallacy. We love those that treat us well, support and care about us, and love us. We do not love those who abuse us, take us for granted, disrespect us, and ignore our feelings. That goes for everyone in our life, parents, kids, friends, and mates.
So, never allow anyone to take from you, without giving to you.
Believe me , when the man takes from you AND gives you back, he is happier than when he only takes from you. A man feels great happiness and power when he sees that what he gives you makes you happy. He does not feel the same power when you're just happy because he's around. It does not make sense to him. He needs to know, simply: " I do take good care of her heart, and therefore she loves me". That's what makes sense to him, because it contains the logic of all nature: Action and consequence.
P.S. Look at my signature,,,,,it is so true!!!!! The most basic thing that attracts a man to a woman is her sexuality/sensuality. The most important component of sexuality is CONFIDENCE AND SELF-ESTEEM. Without that, the most beautiful woman will not be sexy in his eyes after a week. Let that be a warning to any woman who is influenced by old movies, and thinks that crying softly makes a man want her and respect her. NOT SO!
The same way we are attracted to soft-spoken, dignified, supremely confident men who do not beg, (think Sean Connery), so men are attracted to women with the same qualities. a smart woman should never forget that. She should remeber that even in her greatest anger, she can also be very attractive if she maintains her grooming-VERY IMPORTANT/PROJECTS LOVE OF SELF-and her composure, while she nails him with the most incisive, truthful words she can muster, never allowing herself to scream, call him names, snarl, insult him. She must never allow him to call her names either:" I will not allow you to insult me like this. This conversation is OVER". Guess what? Now HE has to change, because he knows he gets nowhere if he's not respectful. The incredible thing is -he likes you more!!!

There is a saying something like: women make decisions based on what the man says, not what he does. The man makes decisions based on what a woman does... not what she says she will do.

Ideally, what we say should be backed up by our actions. We say "that's it, it's over" but then they come over at midnight after a few (?) drinks and we let them in and have sex with them. Then we have those soulfuly talks where we feel SO close to them. Then the guy starts the distance dance. It is a predictable circle for the romantic woman in a relationship with an emotionally unavailable man. Believe me, I have been there.

Almeiraz I too hope that you will hang around. It sounds like you understand the cycle very well!

I wrote so much, because I'm counting on MariaLux to use her trained mind to look at Bertrand, herself, and the situation they're in in a clinical way. She -by training- can diagnose problems based on history, signs, and symptoms, as well as test results. All the same components are present in her relationship.
She has one obstacle:
She has heard his words and promises, experienced his lovemaking, seen his tears.
These things are the only ones which prevent her from diagnosing the problem, its origin, and prescribing the course of treatment. She has let herself be sucked in his own operating system (his problem, ambivalence, guilt, desire to keep everybody happy).
She has to put in gear her scientific mind, and cooly look at the "patient" in front of her (the relationship). Once she excludes the subjective input (what he says to her), she will be able to do some great work in her relationship-I'm sure of that!

Almeiraz

I am almost blushing because of your good words. I would like nothing better than to be able to fully participate in this wonderful board. However, it is highly unlikely, because I have my own love-relationship advice website, which is more than full-time work. Helping others is something I can't stop doing, even if it's weekend or holidays. I know what it's like to wait for an answer or advice when the minutes seem like days...so when they write me, I answer them as soon as I can. The last two days we had to change the server of that site to a location closer to me, so I could not use the site, so I came here, and I'm so glad that I did!

Almeiraz

You are very sweet, very nice, and very human...you deserve to have all your dreams, even the smallest one, become reality. And they will, when you decide so! está en sus manos :)

Almeiraz

Almeiraz, you are my angel in this difficult time. You are so right in everything you told me, I don't have to repeat...I want you to know that I will do what you are telling me, I am a good patient, and I am sick. I love him, but I see how I am not being able to help him and I myself started to feel lost, incapable to see clear. Yellowrose knows how it works for me, she said it perfectly. He comes back in pain and the only thing I can do is to relieve his pain. I am not sure I can leave him right now, but I will start letting him solve his problems with his mother, I will read the books with him (I ordered three books on the subject yesterday, including Toxic Parents) and I will take care of my life.
Please don't go away from us, come when you can, stay here, you are a precious friend to us, most especially to me!:)

You have to know another thing, many many times I've told him "I am no doormat"! I inherited this from my mother, she has always told us not to be one, to anybody! Now, who believes in coincidences?
I don't...

When the server move is complete, I won't have time to come here again almost at all. You can always contact me through my own website: www.yourloveadvice.com
It's late and I'm off to bed now...but I must tell you you're making a huge mistake.
If you want your relationship to live, you have to be stronger than you have been. You should deny him your presence RIGHT WHEN HE NEEDS IT THE MOST. This the only way he can begin to know what life without you is like, and then he can decide how he likes it, and if he does not like it, he can take action.
Be responsible about the outcome of this, play your cards right, don't act like a 20 yr old girl, stop indulging both yourself and him, and get serious.
You have been through a lot of pain, and it produced zero results.
Stop taking the easy road-we always naturally choose to do what's easiest for us to do, but if you really want this man, you should have no contact with him from tomorrow. Make it as abrupt as you can, and as final as you can-he needs to HURT BADLY, don't you understand me???

Almeiraz

I understand you perfectly...:( what a hard thing to do, to abandon him to his pain, to his mother. But if this means sending away a boy and bringing a man back to me, I will do it. Thanks again, Almeiraz, you are an angel.

Ay!! Almeiraz, you open my mind tofind the right solution for my problem, i´m a controller!!!! and a jelousy woman too.
ANd when i try to leave him alone and him is back i can´t stay away from him, but he didn´t learn the lesson (neither do i).I have no problem with his mother but have certain issues about free time together.

Controlling is not the way, the way is leaving him alone and i will try very hard to do it, (i think i need counseling:confused: ) I have to leave the fear aside.
THANK YOU ALMEIRAZ!!!!!! you touch me, make me feel better.

MariaLux lets try this way and PM to follow together the results, it would be supportive for the two of us.}

Thanks again Al and be strong Maria.

LOVE
MIM

PS: AL you speak or understand spanish???
I´m from Venezuela andd you??

MariaLux, I don't know who has the biggest problem-you or Bertrand!!!! I "hear" how hard it is for you in your words.
It is no accident that you are together-you support and feed each other's "disfunction" for lack of a better word! Please read all you can about "co-dependents" and "enabling". Without this knowledge, if you have a new relationship, you may find yourself "helping" an alcoholic or some other problem. You have the perfect attitude that sets you up for this, and who gets hurt? You. Once you understand how misplaced your notion of love is, you will be a transformed woman, and by necessity the man will change too. You need to do this, regardless of which man you are with, or whether you are in Europe or Brazil. As long as you don't know enough about your own "problem", you will keep attracting men who take from you and do not give back.

But continuing doing what you're doing is so damaging: "I keep doing the same thing, hoping different things will happen". You have a fine mind-use it! You do not solve situations like this by doing what comes naturally to you("helping him through his pain"). You solve them as if they are a medical problem. Your patient needs treatment !!
An example you will understand: You have a son on drugs, who has no money to buy any, and is suffering withdrawal. As you know, it is painful. Will you give him money to buy drugs and ease his pain, or will you care about his life, and deny him the money, regarldless of how much his pain makes you sad?
You would be so surprised to find out how well and how easily so many problems between man and woman can be solved....
Mimosita: Recognizing the problem ...you're half-way into the solution, as long as someone can tell you what the solution is...Thank you for your good words again, I don't speak Spanish-the most beautiful languge in the world. I am Greek.

Almeiraz

It's funny because it's not my usual behaviour. I have always dated very kind and uncomplicated men, who gave me support and spoiled me more than I gave them.
My father was an alcoholic (he's had two strokes and now doesn't drink anymore), he abused all the family both verbally and physically, got divorced from my mother, and I have always avoided people with addictions, whatever they are. I had to finish college while working for other doctors during the night, because he had cut us from his life and didn't give us any money.
It's the first time in my life that someone's problems have taken such a big part of my life. That's one of the reasons why I knew I was really in love this time, because whatever happens to him affects me deeply. But as you kindly say, I have a mind and using it I can recognize when something is not working.
My friends here have been telling me so many precious things, some very close to what you said, but maybe my timing to understand them was not good. Suddenly, reading you, I understood my mistake. It was maybe my prayers, maybe my pain, or the fact that I matured these last months that helped me to see clearly what you meant.
I will never forget that moment when I read you and I had tears in my eyes.

Your words Maria:
"My father was an alcoholic (he's had two strokes and now doesn't drink anymore), he abused all the family both verbally and physically, got divorced from my mother, and I have always avoided people with addictions, whatever they are. I had to finish college while working for other doctors during the night, because he had cut us from his life and didn't give us any money. "
*****************************************
You will read about yourself in "Toxic Parents". Your family situation has formed the "rescuing", "enabling" and "co-dependent" tendency in you, and it is TYPICAL in children of alcoholics. Add to that the unavailability and rejection your father showed you and you see how you respond with such strong emotion now. The fact that you were with men who did not "take" from you before does not mean anything, because you did not feel a very strong love for them. The "rescue" theme may have been there in reverse-they were rescuing you.. The fact that your strongest love-Bertrand-is someone who is "unavailable" and needs "rescuing" , tells you that unavailable men who need rescue awake your strongest feelings, so you'll suffer much trying to "rescue" them from their problems the only way you know how. You are attracted to men who re-create your childhood drama of rejection, unavailability, and need for rescue. You may never be able to stop yourself from being pulled to this type. But you sure can change from today how you handle the situation, which will either get these men out of your life, or force them to change-both of these possibilities are good for you.
Without knowing about your father, I wrote the word "enable" yesterday to you, and you will see in the book that the alcoholic's family become "enablers" in almost 100% of the cases. There is no way to live with alcoholic otherwise.
So...the beginning of the problem is with you. People sense in a second, unconciously, these things, when they first meet.

** You give off the signs and aura of a rescuer/enabler
** It attracts a man who needs that
** He awakens in you the longing to finally "fix" and "win over" a man, just as you felt about your dad
** You pursue the above longing passionately
** You know the rest.

Ask yourself, and give me the answer: what would happen if you did not try to fix him/help him?
If you told him "I love you with all my heart, but you are not available to me to have a life with. So, I am stopping our relationship now. You are free to contact me if you are 100% available to me, for a life with me in Brazil. I can not guarantee that I will still be available to you, but you may want to take this chance".
As you see, this is how you talk to a man, adult to adult. This is how a boy becomes a man-by being treated as an adult, not by being kept in diapers that you change frequently so that he's not uncomfortable....
".

You have been conditioned from your father to expect little from a man, to ask for even less from a man, and to not feel that you DESERVE from a man. Well...you know what the Bible says...ASK and ye shall receive...
You never knew what it's like to be well-loved, except perhaps with your previous boyfriends. So you did not have a "blue-print" of how you should be valued and treated when someone says they love you. You had the blue-print your father gave you. Your father gave you very little, demanded a great deal from you, and now Bertrand ...same situation, different details.
I was not a well-loved child either. So what I did was this to create my "well-loved blue-print":
I sat and thought of all the times boyfriends/husbands had made me feel happy, cherished, important, and good abo