It's not the man's fault

My wife has a close friend that usually annoys me within 5 minutes of entering a room. Her usual conversations with me involve how all of us men are pigs and only interested in women for sex and not for their minds. This self proclaimed feminist wears clothing that is too tight and unbuttoned in revealing places. Usually to illustrate her ample cleavage. This is the only style of clothing she will wear even for work in an office setting.

One of her biggest gripes is that men are always walking up and admiring her cleavage. She finds this offensive, unless of course it is a handsome man doing the admiring. My opinion is that she dresses for show and should not complain when us pigs take a peek, gander or full on stare. Am I the only one that feels this way?

wear your clothes tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to show you're a lady. :D
If this woman is a feminist and dresses like a ..... hmmm....exhibitionist with popping buttons, I think she needs therapy! to understand why she's sending such mixed signals.

I see this all the time. Women who dress provocatively and then complain about the attention.

I think it is a psychological game that insecure women play. It's their way of feeling attractive by getting attention that they feel they could not otherwise get.

And the complaining is a way to call attention to themselves by saying "Look how desirable I am to men. They can't stop staring at me." They just can't wait to tell everybody they know.

Men's brains are wired to look at women's sexual anatomy. Any woman that dresses in revealing clothes will get looks no matter how unattractive she may be. Some women who feel they are unattractive have learned this and dress this way for the attention they could not otherwise get. Secretly, they know the game they are playing, so it only leads to a brief and fleeting fix of self satisfaction. So they have to do it all the time.

I think the most attractive people are those who don't attempt to reveal anything. Those attempting to show off the goods to all who will look is just looking for the attention that is being lacked in other places in life then complain when they are looked at to seek more attention...Just a vicious circle.

As far as the men are pigs stuff........ If men weren't the way they are (and I am NOT calling men pigs or anything of the nature) women would complain about it..... There's nothing wrong with looking and admiring those of the opposite sex....Thats what makes the world go 'round!

My wife has a close friend that usually annoys me within 5 minutes of entering a room. Her usual conversations with me involve how all of us men are pigs and only interested in women for sex and not for their minds. This self proclaimed feminist wears clothing that is too tight and unbuttoned in revealing places. Usually to illustrate her ample cleavage. This is the only style of clothing she will wear even for work in an office setting.

One of her biggest gripes is that men are always walking up and admiring her cleavage. She finds this offensive, unless of course it is a handsome man doing the admiring. My opinion is that she dresses for show and should not complain when us pigs take a peek, gander or full on stare. Am I the only one that feels this way?
Oh yes, I've met these kinds of "feminist" women before. I just love it when they start to talk about how women don't need men, how primative the male mind is, and how much better the world would be if it was ruled by women. :rolleyes:

Regardless of how she dresses, I don't like it when a woman walks into a room and bashes all men. Another thing I don't like is when a woman complains incessantly about her husband. Some of my employees do this and yet they've all been married for 10-15 years. I can see venting every now and then about something their husbands did that they didn't like, but some of these ladies carry on about them all the time. I remind them frequently that they all need to go without their husbands for a while to learn how to appreciate them more and to love them unconditionally.

I worked in the HR department at Mitsubishi when they had the big sexual harassment suit about 12 years ago. It was ridiculous. N.O.W. came and had a rally, calling for a boycott of the cars, Jesse Jackson came and gave a big speech, yadda yadda yadda.

But none of those people bothered to get the whole story. Yes, there was a tiny handful of women in the executive offices who were being treated - for lack of a better way to put it - like Japanese women by the Japanese executives. Suffice it to say that flew like a lead balloon. BUT. A bunch of women working in the factory itself decided to hop on the bandwagon and cried foul, too. It was utterly ridiculous... they would file in all throughout my shift while the Union Liason had to take note of their complaints. But here's the thing: the majority of them would come in wearing their shirts unbuttoned entirely too low and tied at the waist, wearing sparkly lip gloss and with pants a size too tight. And the whole time that they were complaining about their coworkers, they would flirt shamelessly and outrageously with the liason!

I can't STAND it when women do that -- it's unfair and sends very mixed symbols. Remember that movie with Demi Moore and Michael Douglas, Disclosure? It happens in real life, too.

I think the most attractive people are those who don't attempt to reveal anything. Those attempting to show off the goods to all who will look is just looking for the attention that is being lacked in other places in life then complain when they are looked at to seek more attention...Just a vicious circle.

As far as the men are pigs stuff........ If men weren't the way they are (and I am NOT calling men pigs or anything of the nature) women would complain about it..... There's nothing wrong with looking and admiring those of the opposite sex....Thats what makes the world go 'round!

Yep. Nothing is more attractive to me than a woman who can look beautiful and sexy completely covered up in clothes that are not revealing at all. Beauty that can come through dressed like that is intoxicating (and much more rare). A truly beautiful woman does not need to dress scantily to get attention.

I may stare at a woman who is dressed in scanty clothes, but that has nothing to do with thinking she is beautiful...or even sexy. It's just an instinctual reaction. It's two different things.

That doesn't mean I can't appreciate a woman who is beautiful and ALSO dressed scantily. Mamma Mia!

This isn't the Sexually Speaking department, so I will tone the following down. But the fact is that nature designed men so that they have to be stimulated in order for procreation to be possible. Unlike women, a man was designed so that he MUST have a (rather radical) mechanical reaction for sex to take place.

Visual stimulation is the primary vehicle that triggers this natural reaction in men. So they are wired to pay close attention to this trigger in order to be in a state of ready when needed. To call them pigs for this natural behavior is just a way that ignorant and insecure women baselessly vent anger towards men. It's all related to the same syndrome of insecurity and not being happy with oneself.

Put this together with a woman who plays the games described earlier and you truly have a mixed up and annoying customer. It's a huge turnoff.

My wife has a close friend that usually annoys me within 5 minutes of entering a room. Her usual conversations with me involve how all of us men are pigs and only interested in women for sex and not for their minds. This self proclaimed feminist wears clothing that is too tight and unbuttoned in revealing places. Usually to illustrate her ample cleavage. This is the only style of clothing she will wear even for work in an office setting.

One of her biggest gripes is that men are always walking up and admiring her cleavage. She finds this offensive, unless of course it is a handsome man doing the admiring. My opinion is that she dresses for show and should not complain when us pigs take a peek, gander or full on stare. Am I the only one that feels this way?

Wow... if I had a friend that bashed my man she wouldn't remain my friend for long. It'd be adios amiga!

I tend to agree with TrueHeart but want to add that I also think a lot of these types can't stand that other women might have a good relationship with a man... any man!... so feel the need to bash them in front of the very women who have such a good relationship. It's all in the head, their self superior attitude.

But I know some men like this too that bash women... and they're equally annoying to be around.

I guess I am way too liberal and way too old to change. :)

No matter how a woman dresses, she still deserves to be treated with respect. Some times, my female colleagues forget to button their blouse or something along the similar line, this does not entitle me to become a pig.

Whether I am a pig or a gentleman is not dependent on another woman’s dress style. It is entirely dependent on my ethos as a man.

Thank YOU Flanker!!!!! I have to say I am a bit surprised at the responses here....it just comes a bit too close to the idea that if a woman is dressed too scantily she is asking to be assaulted or raped. I know that's not what anyone is saying, but it is the same sort of thinking that if a woman is dressed in too tight of clothes, or too revealing, then she is asking for male attention (of whatever kind).

Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle. I do think that alot of what I see people wearing is appropriate or in bad taste - IMO. But, that is my opinion, and shouldn't mean anything to anyone unless they are my partner, or family or the like. If someone wants to dress like that, they should be able to, and men should be able to respect that. But, I also understand that men will gawk, heck women gawk at men too.

As a side note - I like to wear form-fitting clothes. They make me feel good - baggy clothes make me feel sloppy for some reason. But, because I don't want to draw attention to myself, I will often wear a tight shirt, with something loose over top. This way I feel good, but am not too revealing. At home, it's a different story! :p

About women complaining about their husbands - that drives me nuts too. My sister complains about her husband constantly. It bothers me and makes me uncomfortable that she seems to dislike so much, the one person she should LOVE more than anyone.

Thank you Cabin Fever for your moral support!

One thing I have noticed about many of female colleagues that they are goofy. These goofy types are often not aware their buttons are loose. Some of them come from countrysides and they tend to get too close when they are talking to you. Some of them simply like to dress in revealing clothes. My office has rules against those. LOL.

These goofy women have not a slightest clue that some men are taking all this as a license to be lewd to them.

In response to Truehearts comments, I think a lot of guys can forget that just because they don't find a certain body type or `look' etc attractive, doesn't mean that other men, or that woman herself, feels the same way.

I think it is a psychological game that insecure women play. It's their way of feeling attractive by getting attention that they feel they could not otherwise get

Sometimes is the opposite....it respresents security and also pride in one's body, even if its not to your taste. A woman with a big cleavage might show it off sometimes. Or a lady with nice long legs may wear a short skirt. Or lady with a beautiful face might wear makeup to accentuate her beautiful lips and eyes.

We must remember that when we look at soemone and what they are wearing, you have no idea what they thinking or feeling. You cannot say that they are insecure based on your own personal prejudices against certain `looks'. personally, i'm glad for the diversity, and the fact that people who look `different' can still express pride in themselves.

PS. nice posts Flanker!

I guess I am way too liberal and way too old to change. :)

No matter how a woman dresses, she still deserves to be treated with respect. Some times, my female colleagues forget to button their blouse or something along the similar line, this does not entitle me to become a pig.

Whether I am a pig or a gentleman is not dependent on another woman’s dress style. It is entirely dependent on my ethos as a man.

Yayyyyy!! <standing up and cheering> woohoooo!!! Thank you, Flanker!

Thanks Bella and Trish!

I am not really Buddha or even worthy of cleaning his shoes. I was simply stating what I thought was a reasonable approach when interacting with women. I did not mean to make anyone feel bad. You all are nice people.

Thank you Jelly!

<feeling shy>

Thank YOU Flanker!!!!! I have to say I am a bit surprised at the responses here....it just comes a bit too close to the idea that if a woman is dressed too scantily she is asking to be assaulted or raped. I know that's not what anyone is saying, but it is the same sort of thinking that if a woman is dressed in too tight of clothes, or too revealing, then she is asking for male attention (of whatever kind).

I agree.


Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle. I do think that alot of what I see people wearing is appropriate or in bad taste - IMO. But, that is my opinion, and shouldn't mean anything to anyone unless they are my partner, or family or the like. If someone wants to dress like that, they should be able to, and men should be able to respect that. But, I also understand that men will gawk, heck women gawk at men too.

I agree that people should be able to wear what they want, unless there's a dress code at a workplace. Also, some cultures (not trying to generalize) like their women "chunky," and the women are proud to show off their curves in tight clothes. I think its great...if youre happy with your body, be proud!


As a side note - I like to wear form-fitting clothes. They make me feel good - baggy clothes make me feel sloppy for some reason.

I totally agree. I try to be careful and take good looks in the mirror, but i dont LIKE loose clothes. The guy i'm seeing is always telling me i need to show off MORE cleavage...so go figure... ;)

I am not really Buddha or even worthy of cleaning his shoes. I was simply stating what I thought was a reasonable approach when interacting with women. I did not mean to make anyone feel bad. You all are nice people.

Theres nothing you wrote that should make anyone feel bad.

Youre just saying that youre able to control yourself, and be decent, no matter what a woman is wearing. Nothing wrong with saying that...you take responsibility for yourself...we all should :)

You just spoke what is the truth for you.

I don't think men who look at women who are revealing themselves in some way are pigs. Actually, I think it's very normal. If a man didn't look I'd wonder about him. But the way a man chooses to handle the situation, and himself, says alot about him as a man of strength and character.

Now if I'm wearing something somewhat revealing, I want and expect my guy to be a pig....well, pig isn't quite the right word....lol! :p :D

Trust me! I am very shallow. :D

Theres nothing you wrote that should make anyone feel bad.

Youre just saying that youre able to control yourself, and be decent, no matter what a woman is wearing. Nothing wrong with saying that...you take responsibility for yourself...we all should :)

Yep, that is precisely what I meant. :D

I don't think men who look at women who are revealing themselves in some way are pigs. Actually, I think it's very normal. If a man didn't look I'd wonder about him. But the way a man chooses to handle the situation, and himself, says alot about him as a man of strength and character.


I agree!! :)

Being a dirty lover in the bedroom is not the same as being a pig at the work place. :)

I guess I am way too liberal and way too old to change. :)

No matter how a woman dresses, she still deserves to be treated with respect. Some times, my female colleagues forget to button their blouse or something along the similar line, this does not entitle me to become a pig.


I treat people with respect, if they deserve to be treated with respect. Whether they are male or female, dressed conservatively, provocatively or naked.

I don't go to work (or anywhere else) with my underwear showing or my private anatomy exposed or highlighted. If I did, I would expect to be stared at because that is normal behavior. The same applies to women.

Women who dress in scanty clothes and then complain about someone staring at them are being disrespectful to the persons they are complaining about and therefore are justly criticized for that behavior.

We are not talking about dressing scantily. We are talking about dressing scantily and then criticizing others for noticing it.

Thank YOU Flanker!!!!! I have to say I am a bit surprised at the responses here....it just comes a bit too close to the idea that if a woman is dressed too scantily she is asking to be assaulted or raped. I know that's not what anyone is saying, but it is the same sort of thinking that if a woman is dressed in too tight of clothes, or too revealing, then she is asking for male attention (of whatever kind).

Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle. I do think that alot of what I see people wearing is appropriate or in bad taste - IMO. But, that is my opinion, and shouldn't mean anything to anyone unless they are my partner, or family or the like. If someone wants to dress like that, they should be able to, and men should be able to respect that. But, I also understand that men will gawk, heck women gawk at men too.

As a side note - I like to wear form-fitting clothes. They make me feel good - baggy clothes make me feel sloppy for some reason. But, because I don't want to draw attention to myself, I will often wear a tight shirt, with something loose over top. This way I feel good, but am not too revealing. At home, it's a different story! :p

About women complaining about their husbands - that drives me nuts too. My sister complains about her husband constantly. It bothers me and makes me uncomfortable that she seems to dislike so much, the one person she should LOVE more than anyone.

1. Who in the world is talking about rape and assault? You said yourself that no one was talking about that. So why did you even bring it up? That is a pretty serious charge to even mention or imply for no reason at all. No one here said anything about that.

I think you are "a bit to close" to regurgitating the usual left wing propaganda that tries to smear anyone who has a criticism about women by calling them things like rapists and criminals. (The same ad hominem smear technique the left uses to try to intimidate anyone who disagrees with anything they say.) This is absurd but so predictable. I don't think you did this on purpose, I think you are just brainwashed by the left to spout out this hogwash, and you aren't even sure why you do it. Don't be one of Lenin's "useful idiots" for the left.

2. I don't think anyone in this thread said that people shouldn't be able to dress any way they want. I know I never said that. That would be totally against my entire philosophy. Plus I LOVE to see sexy women dressed in revealing clothes, so I'd be the last one to want that to end. So why do you argue against a position that no one has taken?

Alrighty.....lovely way to start my morning! :(

Trueheart....I thought you might initially take offense to what I wrote but I thought you would also understand what I was trying to say without immediately insulting my intelligence. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was that (I'll repeat it) "It is the same sort of thinking" that bothers me. I've heard it before regarding girls at clubs and date rape "She was asking for it - did you see her?" That is my point - I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong or "bad" or whatever, just that I found it a bit surprising that I felt that sort of vibe in this thread and so I commented on it.

Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut - I don't want to start a debate on here and I certainly don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

I'm out of here - sorry to have brought this up.

CabinFever

I came on pretty strong, that's just my way, I state my case forcefully. I really did not mean to upset you, that was not my intention. I'm sorry if I did. You are a nice person. Your apology for bringing up those issues is accepted. :)

Something I've noticed myself is that not all men stare at attractive women or women who are wearing clothes that accentuate their best features. They may look, but only some stare. Personally, I think staring can be rude....towards the person being stared at, and towards your girlfriend.

Something I've noticed myself is that not all men stare at attractive women or women who are wearing clothes that accentuate their best features. They may look, but only some stare. Personally, I think staring can be rude....towards the person being stared at, and towards your girlfriend.

I agree.

My ex-husband was a starer. And a commenter (to me, about the other women). It got old fast.

The last two guys i've seen are the type that look at every woman, and usually comment on them, making it look like they think every single woman in the world is good-looking (never telling me that i am, of course). Where do i find these guys??

I dont NEED them to tell me that i look good, but i think its a nice plus, when youre seeing someone!

Yes, i feel the same way...I just love guys who refrain from staring at other women.

Yes, i feel the same way...I just love guys who refrain from staring at other women.

I am usually the one who stares at other women!
I will tell the guy "Look!"

I believe what is beautiful has to be appreciated!
As long as he don't touch it and share the sight with me. :D

Lots love~

Something I've noticed myself is that not all men stare at attractive women or women who are wearing clothes that accentuate their best features. They may look, but only some stare. Personally, I think staring can be rude....towards the person being stared at, and towards your girlfriend.

I agree...
I'm not sure if what I do could always be called exactly just a fast look. In some cases I just glance, but in others I'd have to admit it's probably more than just a quick glance. I've seen guys sit there and stare for long periods, I can't say I do that, but that doesn't mean that sometimes I wouldn't like to. I think I tend to glance longer if I see that she is responding favorably.

Frankly, when I am not with someone, and in public, I don't see any problem with looking at a sexy women. It's clear to me that many of them welcome my looks since I have met many women that way.

I do think it is pretty obvious that it's rude to look at other women lustfully when you are with someone who is supposed to be a romantic interest. There are a hell of a lot of knock out women in New York to drool over, but, if I am with someone, no matter who we pass on the streets, I do my best not to look. Most of the time I am successful, but I have to admit it can be painful sometimes.

I've said this before about sexual harassment and it applies here too...

If the guy is good looking, it's welcomed attention, if he is ugly it's harassment.

I am usually the one who stares at other women!
I will tell the guy "Look!"

I believe what is beautiful has to be appreciated!
As long as he don't touch it and share the sight with me. :D

Lots love~


LOL!

I love your new pics! Hope you dont mind if I stare at them ;)

Yes I agree..Anjiana you sure are a honey!

If the guy is good looking, it's welcomed attention, if he is ugly it's harassment

Thats unfair, I agree!

I am eternally amazed at the roller-coaster twists these threads take. I was never offended by the way my wife's friend dressed. Frankly, she is not my type and I would have preferred that she wear more clothes. I just got tired of the ridiculous comments she would make about how sexist all men were because they had the nerve to look at her ample cleavage that she all but put a neon sign around to advertise. She worked as a hospital administrator and didn't understand why some of the clients would not take her as seriously as she felt she should be taken. If I dared to cross the thin pink line by suggesting that perhaps her attire was not professional enough for her expectations I was given icy stares and daggered insults (usually focused on my penis and its' importance to me). When my lovely wife was present, she would quickly change the subject after admonishing her friend for her improper statements (especially about my penis) ;) .

I deeply and truly love all women. A more beautiful or complex creature was never placed upon this earth. There are many that I do not understand, but none that I do not love. When I ask these questions, I am frequently seeking a deeper understanding of the female mind. God bless the women of the world and the men who love them. :D

LOL!

I love your new pics! Hope you dont mind if I stare at them ;)

lol!!!

TrueHeart to answer that I will just use Bella D's words,

If the guy is good looking, it's welcomed attention!

Thank YOU Flanker!!!!! I have to say I am a bit surprised at the responses here....it just comes a bit too close to the idea that if a woman is dressed too scantily she is asking to be assaulted or raped. I know that's not what anyone is saying, but it is the same sort of thinking that if a woman is dressed in too tight of clothes, or too revealing, then she is asking for male attention (of whatever kind).

Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle. I do think that alot of what I see people wearing is appropriate or in bad taste - IMO. But, that is my opinion, and shouldn't mean anything to anyone unless they are my partner, or family or the like. If someone wants to dress like that, they should be able to, and men should be able to respect that. But, I also understand that men will gawk, heck women gawk at men too.

As a side note - I like to wear form-fitting clothes. They make me feel good - baggy clothes make me feel sloppy for some reason. But, because I don't want to draw attention to myself, I will often wear a tight shirt, with something loose over top. This way I feel good, but am not too revealing. At home, it's a different story! :p

About women complaining about their husbands - that drives me nuts too. My sister complains about her husband constantly. It bothers me and makes me uncomfortable that she seems to dislike so much, the one person she should LOVE more than anyone.

This was a brilliant post! Very well written!

This post does not accuse anyone of being rapist. It talks about the mentality of certain people where they justify rape using the similar arguments:
"Look at her dress, she was asking for it."

CabinFever that was a very intelligent post. Please continue to post.

TrueHeart,
Please be nice boss! We are all impressed with your awesome manly prowess. LOL.

[SIZE=7][COLOR=Red]

TrueHeart,
Please be nice boss! We are all impressed with your awesome manly prowess. LOL.

I am always nice.

It is not in our best interest to run all the ladies off then all we will have is each other. Which wont be too exciting.

I am eternally amazed at the roller-coaster twists these threads take. I was never offended by the way my wife's friend dressed. Frankly, she is not my type and I would have preferred that she wear more clothes. I just got tired of the ridiculous comments she would make about how sexist all men were because they had the nerve to look at her ample cleavage that she all but put a neon sign around to advertise. She worked as a hospital administrator and didn't understand why some of the clients would not take her as seriously as she felt she should be taken. If I dared to cross the thin pink line by suggesting that perhaps her attire was not professional enough for her expectations I was given icy stares and daggered insults (usually focused on my penis and its' importance to me). When my lovely wife was present, she would quickly change the subject after admonishing her friend for her improper statements (especially about my penis) ;) .

I deeply and truly love all women. A more beautiful or complex creature was never placed upon this earth. There are many that I do not understand, but none that I do not love. When I ask these questions, I am frequently seeking a deeper understanding of the female mind. God bless the women of the world and the men who love them. :D

And this is what I thought this thread was about... how a woman who bashes men and accuses them of being sexist while displaying herself in such a way. That's what I'm seeing that Spencer is talking about. Not about women in general who like to wear revealing clothes. I'll bet if this same woman never criticized him or made the remarks she did then there wouldn't be a problem.

I have a couple outfits that I know when I wear them are going to get me noticed. By both sexes. It's what I wear them for, lol, otherwise why wear it? But to wear one of them and then revile the ones giving me the attention that the outfit screams for would be pretty darn stupid imo.

It is not in our best interest to run all the ladies off then all we will have is each other. Which wont be too exciting.

I'll second that!