he's famous

:eek:
it all started on the message board for his band when i wrote reviews about their music and was a very married, mother of teenagers. this was about 10 years ago. it was all so much fun on the internet, i was at university, working, changing a lot.

he started to communicate with me as all different characters. don't ask me how i knew it was him, but it ended up being true and i eventually agreed to talk in a chat room, then the phone. it got very hot since i'd never had cyber or phone sex in my life. but in my mind i kept it as play.

he kept talking about coming to visit me, but of course that was ridiculous to think he would. there were lots of others he played with too. eventually he got me thinking he was really interested because he took up a lot of my time on the phone. what bothered me was he never was his famous self with me, only characters, but i had this way of talking with him so i wasn't demanding.

i began writing poetry and stories, he claimed to love that and thought i had talent. he kept encouraging me to follow my heart, and what happened was i left my husband to have a single life. i left everything. he was still in touch and it was only later i realized he had been stalking me, coming to my city and watching me, disguised as different people. i know this now because i know his eyes.

i let him into my life and it was as different characters, him claiming to want to be something other than what people knew him as. when he tired of one he'd leave me, but i'd still be smiling because it was so funny to me knowing he'd start communicating as somebody else before long. he'd fly back and forth, of course he can afford to do anything, but he didn't provide for me, saying i had to do it myself.

when he asked me to move to one of the cities he lives in, i thought that was what he wanted, but then i saw him around and realized he had a regular girlfriend, (for his famous life) she's very cute (35) and from a wealthy family. we never dated there because his thing is to hang out wherever i went, to a show or to school, and wait for me to talk to him, do some role-playing. i got very scared and wouldn't do it anymore, though i still remember the sweet times we did have - far too much.

now he's this character who supposedly lives on the east coast and is telling me he is in love with me, but i'm supposed to be someone else. my real feelings are still strong and he keeps promising to make everything right after all. he says he's getting impatient because i'm not doing anything towards realizing my creative goals, just working a crappy job and existing. don't worry, i've had counselling and been assured i'm not crazy.

i guess because i agreed to do this role stuff it's my fault really. the biggest flaw is that i was overweight when i first met him and was blown away my him, still had weight issues when we had our affair, lost a lot of it and looked really hot, but never was approached by him when i looked great, now i've gained again and don't feel attractive at all. i don't even want him to see me, but he came to my city recently and i saw him on the street. i just walked right by. he's fuming.

i think unless he can be with me like a natural guy, i'm not going to give in again. i filled about 30 journals with this story, all my emotional ups and downs of it. when i looked good, i was approached by so many younger guys, a lot of musicians, because i look way younger than i am. but i am in no way some groupie. i even stopped listening to his music because it's too much. i'm a post-menopausal woman, for God's sake, almost 54 and he's 43 now. he's very physically active and wants me to be again too. i used to go to the gym almost every day.

my friends tell me that's not real love but he says after 10 years of communicating and thinking of me every day, i'm embedded in him, says i inspired him, that even his closest friends don't know these secrets completely, as if that's supposed to be enough.

i think he just wants me to "feel" in love so i take care of myself, so that eventually someone real will be attracted to me.

thanks for reading, if you have this far, and understanding if you can.

azula

I think you should acknowlege your long friendship, or your long love. If he's not willing to give up his girlfriend, then it's friendship, and that is that. Unless you're too flattered by all the secret attention to give it all up. One or the other, because this agony is preventing you from opening the doors to something real that may also be lurking around the corner, on your own piece of turf.

When will it be "Game Over"?

it's been game over many times, as i have said. it's not really flattery, it's remembering what i felt when with him, without any connection to his public life, just an anonymous guy.

thank you for your replies, we have a strange friendship/connection. i would like to hear more from anyone who has dealt with someone with dissociative disorder or asperger's.

have a lovely weekend, all you beautiful lovers!

love,
azula

Thats a really fascinating story, just keep playing the game, if its not hurting you, and its not hurting him. If on the other hand you really have had enough then get out. If he has Aspergers syndrome he'll never care more than he does now. Most of the autistic spectrum is filled with people that cant see how you feel, but Aspergers are decieving because they appear to be *normal* emotionally, and are not. :o Its a long time thing though and may be the real thing for him.

wow....
that sounds REALLY painful. i think it would be best to move on. i don't like the hidden secretive game thing...it just has a bit of a creepy feel to it! and believe me, i've participated in ridiculous creepy relationships myself so i'm certainly NOT judging. walk away and start over. i pray that good things come your way!!!!

Hi Azula,
Its hard to know what to say, because your experience is certainly very unique.

But I think you are on track with seeing whats going on, and acknowledging that its not a fullfilling relationship. Its also great that you can see that the relationship started at a time when you felt down on yourself, and that those feelings were part of what made him seem so impressive in the beginning...I dunno, I think knowing this is kind of empowering in the long run.

Personally. I can relate to how you felt going through your `weight issues'.....thats something i've struggled with a lot throughout my life too and I know how it can cause such feelings of inferiority sometimes. I definately found it difficult to hold onto my sense of value during those times. Plus I easily took onboard other people's views surrounding weight and inferiority & I think that mindset made me prone to having close relationships with people who reinforced my self image.

I think your guy sounds a bit narcissistic sometimes, which can make you crazy because of all their mixed messages. He criticises you and implies that he wants the best for you, but when you do something to raise your `status' (like the time you were looking hot), he rejects you. I think he wants you vulnerable and self-doubting because it makes you more receptive to these elaborate games of his, and more accepting of the status quo. perhaps this is why he couldn't support a new and more confident you?

Anyhow let us know how you're going! In a nutshell, i think you have a crazy-maker in your life and you need to work out what you're avoiding, that requires such a big distraction.

I think your guy sounds a bit narcissistic sometimes, which can make you crazy because of all their mixed messages. He criticises you and implies that he wants the best for you, but when you do something to raise your `status' (like the time you were looking hot), he rejects you. I think he wants you vulnerable and self-doubting because it makes you more receptive to these elaborate games of his, and more accepting of the status quo. perhaps this is why he couldn't support a new and more confident you?

Anyhow let us know how you're going! In a nutshell, i think you have a crazy-maker in your life and you need to work out what you're avoiding, that requires such a big distraction.

everything here is true. he has to have this huge ego and awesome power for his work, but he wants to feel humble and regular too. mixed messages is all i got at first. he's admitted to this years long testing he's done on everyone, not just me.

he's said he always thought i was strong and confident, so i guess making me get more vulnerable was powerful to him. however, inside i was still very strong, i was able to play the parts quite well.

i'm going great right now. but what i'm avoiding is to believe what he says he could offer me if i only trusted him, and became my svelte, confident self again.

the game isn't hurting anyone really, it actually exercises my mind and i get a charge out of the creativity it spawns. my error was believing he would eventually come around in a normal sense, from what he has told me over the years.

ha! crazy-maker, indeed! it's a gorgeous day.

Wow, Azula, that is an amazing story and it certainly has enough drama for even the worst drama junkie! I'm not judging you, but it sounds like the same situation as being a mistress to a man that will never leave his wife to be with you. If I thought you wanted us to know that you derive sufficient satisfaction from what you get from this relationship, I'd say "fine," but since you indicated that you were hoping for it to evolve into something more and know realize that it never will, and since you have hinted at low self-esteem issues that might make you feel like you don't deserve anything more ... I think there's more to talk about.

I learned the HARD way that you don't really know who is on the other side of that email or IM. Even if he tells you who or what he is, until you do face to face meets you don't really know. Face time tells everything. If it is this guy IM'ing/contacting you as different characters I would say he's playing childish games.


Ali

I lived with a 'famous' individual for several years. He was sweet, he was kind, he had the most beautiful singing voice I'd ever heard BUT, as with most performers of any sort that are in the public eye, he WAS narcissistic and he WAS very self-absorbed. Life was about bolstering HIS ego, fanning HIS career, on whatever level it was on at that point. I've seen the exact thing you're talking about and I do mean EXACT.

Many of my ex, Mark's friends did this, several from very large name bands. It's a game and that's all it is. If this man cared about you he would act like it. He's using you to lift himself up when he falters - not as a mate but as an ego booster. The reality is that when those guys walk away from the computer they're laughing at how gullible you are to put up with it and yes, some of them do it for years at a time before moving on to the next mark. I lived and worked in the entertainment industry and it's all about ego - even for the smaller bands, they want whatever will make them feel big even when they're not and when they DO achieve big status they find themselves spinning out of control with the need to have that ego stroked as much as possible. It's all about him, none of it is about you and that's not fair to you as a person.

I'm sorry to be such a downer but, like I said, I've been on the other side of this scenario. I've watched a couple of guys sit there and do exactly what this guy did to you and laugh while they were doing it. I heard them brag about the phone sex or actual hook up sex and how they left the woman thinking that there would be more but there never is and they can't bear to get rid of her because she fills that need when the girl friend or wife won't put out. You are being used, dear, face the sad reality, stand up for yourself and move on, you'll be better off for it, believe me.

Pardon me Azula...but so many parts of the story you've told...are familiar to me...not every part...but many...destiny, karma, fate...my feeling is...if he is the person you are meant to be with (and vice versa) that you should do what you can to become fully self sufficient on your own...be the best person you can be...frankly, if he can't handle meeting you at some point, face to face, at your suggestion or at his either way..where you can both sit down and acknowledge your feelings then a decision will have to be made (if he continues in his aloof state that is)...either he finds you...and tells you exactly how he feels..you find him...and tell him how you feel (in person, that is)

and if this doesn't happen..a decision must be made at that point...to 1) move on and find out what destiny and fate has in store for you (and maybe even for him) or 2) live alone and make a decision to do so, decide not to be in a relationshipi at all...if he is your soulmate (twin flame) ...you will either both fight the obstacles until you can be together (the positive side of this is due to everything you have had to endure..your relationship will be strong and last forever...a lot to be said for time passing and for choosing "not" to settle...so I urge you...try to meet with him one on one..tell him how you are feeling (and I didn't say it would be easy...trust me...when it's someone you really care for...it's probably the hardest thing you'll EVER have to do)...and let fate and destiny take care of the rest...

You see...everything in life happens for a reason..one thing leads us to the next and the next..as long as we are "open" to the idea..if we close our minds...go into denial..and into "victim" mode...well...that's sad...because...we don't get anywhere..can't go any further in that mode...I hope I've helped in some small way...as I can certainly relate to many parts of what you've talked about here...I truly believe in my heart ...at this point...that if it's meant to be...it will be...the road leading there may seem all uphill...but think about it...if in the end...it takes you where you need to go...then wasn't everything you had to go through worth it? The short answer is "yes, most definitely." Good Luck to you! :)

He used you. For years he used you. Ok so maybe you used him in your own way too. Dont let him use you anymore. In fact liberate yourself and use those journals to write a book about "mr i'm so famous i need to pretend stuff"
you will be surprised how strong it will make you.
Right now you are still the victim because you are protecting his identity.
I only have one question... why?
Who is this jerk, or what band is he in, so I can stop buying his records?!!

Many of my ex, Mark's friends did this, several from very large name bands. The reality is that when those guys walk away from the computer they're laughing at how gullible you are to put up with it and yes, some of them do it for years at a time before moving on to the next mark.

yes, aren't they the prize buttholes? ego-city. other people have told me this too, that's why i wanted to share with people here, to get feedback. as the opinions differ, so i have gone back and forth in my head, but i'm carrying on with my real life, now that i've moved away from him. yet i know he has stalked me here too. it's only a short flight from where he lives part time. yes, he approached and talked to me, disguised, but i turned him down and went home. he was enraged.

one of my 'advisors' even talked about them probably sitting around getting drunk and sharing the idiotic stories about what you mentioned. i mean, i had that feeling from the start, that it wasn't private, maybe even that they taped the phone sex. but i threw caution to the wind to show him i wasn't afraid, that i had power too to create excitement. i did meet up with him several times, i did feel sweetness with him, but he couldn't believe or trust, even in intimacy, so off he'd go.

i know i was used, but i guess i used him too a bit. (though he loved it) he thinks he gave me some kind of thrill, but i only thought of him as a regular guy. it's true he'd be doing much more if it were a loving relationship, i'm not blind to that. i don't mention who it is because i think they'd claim slander or false accusations. they've got me where they want me, and i can't afford any legal proceedings. once it was hinted that if i tried to find out where he lived or follow him from a concert, which i certainly would never do, there would be a restraining order. that's when i knew how he had all the loose ends sewn up for his real life. i was just a character in a storybook tale.

sure it was unbelievable when he looked at me from the stage, but i thought it was kind of stupid and laughable too because i was absolutely not a groupy.

i'd like to talk about this way more, i need to continue to move through it. thanks, everyone, you are the friends i need right now. i just have so darn much LOVE to share! :)

~ azula

but Aspergers are decieving because they appear to be *normal* emotionally, and are not. :o Its a long time thing though and may be the real thing for him.

i've suspected this as he has written so much to me ~ billions of words. it may be the real thing, but until he comes forward as a real guy, it isn't completely real.

he's the charmer and the snake too.

thank you for this information.

You have to make a decision. You don't say how old you are, but you've invested a hell of a lot of your life into something that is ultimately less than substantial.

I think your new motto should be: "Keep it real." This is a lot of crap that hasn't given you much of anything other than addictive fulfillment. Think about that. I'm not implying that it hasn't had value for you at various times in your life. But basically, you have been at the mercy of this person who is throwing you already knawed bones.

Get a real life. It's much more gratifying.

come on azula, tell us who he is so we can all boycot his music!
It'll be liberating ;)

Azula, nothing you have said about this guy and having Asperger's adds up to me. I have first hand experience with the syndrome.

Baybee is right in that Aspies appear "typical" emotionally but, in reality they are not typical. However, all this role and game playing doesn't sound like anything I'm familiar with. Most folks with autistic spectrum disorders are FIRMLY rooted in reality and will beat you over the head with it time and time again ;)

What made you ask that question?

Azula, nothing you have said about this guy and having Asperger's adds up to me. I have first hand experience with the syndrome.

Baybee is right in that Aspies appear "typical" emotionally but, in reality they are not typical. However, all this role and game playing doesn't sound like anything I'm familiar with. Most folks with autistic spectrum disorders are FIRMLY rooted in reality and will beat you over the head with it time and time again ;)

What made you ask that question?

it's because asperger's kids/people sometimes can only have the confidence to go do the stuff in the world by playing a role, acting a part. if they are 'someone else' they can do anything they want to. along with that goes a lack of being responsible if things screw up too. they can just go be someone else (****y and bold) and escape. i spoke with a psychology professional on this, i didn't make it up.

if he's rooted in reality then he really does love me, i guess, because he's very insistent on that. unless he's a pathological liar too.

i understand the detachment, lack of demonstrating affection, inabilty to correctly read body language, can be socially inept ~ like this guy laughs way too loud suddenly, or stays completely silent, mumbling replies if he's not entrenched in a character who is bold. there's this weird pact among people he works with to not betray his games or appearance. i've been with him when his security has been a short distance away. imagine trying to have some intimacy when they all knew what he was doing and i was with him, and them just waiting for him for hours and hours.

i just find i can't deal with this fame thing. i don't want to be part of it or friends with his biz friends. it makes me quite physically sick because it's so unnatural for me.

I'm best friends with a guy who plays in a major band, and I can tell you first-hand, he is so HIGH MAINTENANCE!!!

We first met 13 years ago, and I fell head over heels in love with him, but soon found out he could never have just one woman, he just couldn't be monogamous, so I decided we'd be platonic friends. It turned out to be a really great thing, but he's STILL high maintenance as a platonic friend.

I won't hear from him for two months, then, his tour bus will pull in within 100 miles, and he expects me to drop everything, drive to meet him, and take him wherever! Now, don't get me wrong, we party, I love the rest of the band, they're great guys, and we just hang out and enjoy ourselves, but I do get annoyed that it's all on HIS terms and it's sometimes inconvenient for me. That's what it's like to befriend someone famous. Their schedule is airtight, they're bombarded by people wanting something from them, and they just want to hang out with someone who doesn't want ANYTHING from them from time to time. I don't want ANYTHING from Larry, I just want to party, laugh, get silly, and go on about my life.

When I was trying to have a romantic relationship with Larry, I was so sad and my stomach was in knots all the time. When we became platonic friends (and I emotionally got over him) we really started to have fun and enjoy eachother as people. He's married now and very stable. She's someone different than me, and someone he needed. I'm happy for him. I too, have someone who I am deeply in love with who is much more to me than he ever could have been. However; I'd never trade my friendship with Larry for anything. I still love him to death, and would do anything for him. The best part is, my bf is totally cool with my friendship with Larry. No hidden agendas, no secrets.

So my advise is, be friends with this guy. Offer him your friendship and understanding based on his being a regular guy, not the "star guy". Give him a listening ear and a shoulder to lean on. Don't expect anything other than friendship from him. I guarantee you, he'll come through for you when you need him to. Find other guys to be your love interests, because this guy WILL NOT be there for you in that capacity, but he can still be a wonderful friend.

When I was trying to have a romantic relationship with Larry, I was so sad and my stomach was in knots all the time. When we became platonic friends (and I emotionally got over him)
So my advise is, be friends with this guy. Offer him your friendship and understanding based on his being a regular guy, not the "star guy".
I guarantee you, he'll come through for you when you need him to. Find other guys to be your love interests, because this guy WILL NOT be there for you in that capacity, but he can still be a wonderful friend.

this is a very interesting reply. is that why my stomach hurts? i don't know how to emotionally get over him, it's really driving me nuts. i have told him from the starts ~ only friends ~ but there we went and had a lot of sex. turning that into a friendship seems hard to do now. i never felt it would be monogamous. he's said he's had sex with others, but not attached to a love relationship. yes, the regular guy, that's who i adore. you think he'll still come through for me? i wonder..

i'm just not looking for anyone. i can't yet. maybe i never will, & that's what makes me kind of bitter... thanks for the advice.

I'm sorry, my advice was inappropriate at this point.

You have to take this in baby steps:

Step 1 - Decide that you can't torture yourself over this guy anymore. When I decided I couldn't take the hurt from my "star" friend anymore, I just didn't talk to him for awhile. I didn't take his calls, and I didn't call him.

Step 2 - After two months (you might take longer), I felt like I was over him enough to talk to him again. He called me and we hung out. It was a little awkward, because he did try to "fool around" with me, but I rejected his advances and kept things light.

Step 3 - I maintained a platonic friendship, never letting him kiss me or touch me other than a light hug. After awhile, he "got it" and stopped trying to fool around with me. We went out and had fun, hung out, sometimes I would go to the studio and watch him record, sometimes watch him in concert, and always go home at the end of the night alone.

Step 4 - I started dating other guys...whoever was single and decent. This helped tremendously. Most of these dates were just casual dinner dates, but they made me feel special. It was nice to have someone pay attention to me and treat me to a nice evening. Casual dating, even when you don't feel like it, raises your self-esteem and gets your mind off of other things. I always ended up having a nice time and making a new friend.

My "star guy" and I have been friends now for 13 years! He is more like a brother to me now, almost protective of me. I love our friendship. He does too. It's comfortable, it's supportive, and most of all, it's fun! We make eachother laugh like no one else can. We have a million private jokes. Sure, it's fun hanging out on the tour bus and being backstage at concerts, but our real treasure is after the show, when we get to drink and cut up laughing. He's just a regular "Joe" at that point, and I get to see the real him, the guy who is house-training his dog, the guy who had to mow his lawn that morning, the guy who got into an altercation with his neighbor, the guy who had car trouble last week...and finds humor in all of it (It's easy to find humor in stuff when you're rich!) :D

Being friends with someone famous is sometimes a bit of work. They can be "high maintenance"...but it's also a rare kind of fun. I think our friendship worked out so well because we really enjoy eachother as people. I don't like him because he's famous, I like him because he's an amazing person on the inside. He would be just as amazing if he was playing in an alley somewhere!

I'm sorry, my advice was inappropriate at this point.

You have to take this in baby steps:



i wish i could do it the way you suggest. he's just too much of a side-stepper, funaholic, workaholic, not just with the music, tons of other things, most of which i don't know about. not to worry, i know the game is just to appease me. he would have done more, but i didn't invite him into my life anymore after his jackass performances when around me. i wanted some semblance of respect and dignity.

the last time they were in town 6 months ago, he tried very hard to get me to come down to the show or tell him where i was. i couldn't do it, i felt like it was another trick even though he said it wasn't.

i don't live in his town anymore, so there's not much chance of hanging out unless he decides to stalk me again. if i was nothing more than a joke, i wonder why he is still emailing me 6 times a day. (i don't have a phone) maybe just laughing harder every time i answer with my brilliance? i just really dig writing with him, he's exciting, unique.

i'm so glad to read about all your differing opinions. it keeps me grounded in the reality it must be.

he definitely is with someone else and has been for a long time. it's taken some figuring out, but i think he's just keeping tabs on me now so i don't do something drastic after giving up everything in the hopes of being together, as he has 'begged' me to do. or maybe he just wanted to take 2 years to let me down easy.

can you believe it? he asked me if i'd heard the new record yet and what i thought of it.

anyway, much appreciation once again.

-- azula

Come ON!!!

Who is it?

A hint, perhaps? Hair colour / length. Age. Kind of music....

Come ON!!!
Who is it?
A hint, perhaps? Hair colour / length. Age. Kind of music....


hehe, I know I grow very curious as I read on through the post! :p

Come ON!!!

Who is it?

A hint, perhaps? Hair colour / length. Age. Kind of music....

he's stopped emailing me suddenly & referred to himself as a jackass. you see? i really wonder if he just tracks all over the internet looking for me or if that's some weird coincidence.

i don't think it's right to say who it is publicly, i do have my dignity, but if you would be so kind to speak privately, i could allay your curiosity.

i'm very sad about all this now.

thank you.

I don't know if he tracks you. seems like he has the resources to do it, so maybe. But also very possible that he just has been feeling the shift in your energy, that the game is getting old for you, and that is why you didn't go see him last time, and probably there are other little ways you are communicating that you are "growing out of" this one.

It is actually very interesting that just at the point that you are looking at it all honestly, and seeing what it is and isn't, he has finally done the same, and declared himself a jackass. To me, it means that he too is tired. I recently got some very much needed advice from someone about how I approach my relationships with men. Because I basically went along with the way they wanted to define the relationship, and never set my own limits, of course the man in my life was able to continue to do things exactly as they suited him. Until I take a stand, and have the strength to pull away. At that point, this man who always assumed I would be there, a couple of steps behind him, has to realize that I am not following anymore.... can you imagine how confusing that must be, after a long time, maybe even years, of things always being a different way? Now he has to re-think everything. He wants it just like it was, but he can't have that anymore. So now he has to decide, how can I change, or it change , in a way I can live with.

While your relationship with him was based on games, there may have also been a stronger connection within that, and this is what he is missing, and why he is calling himself a jackass. Otherwise, he would just say, oh well, game over, and wasn't I clever and wasn't that fun. But jackass? No, that is someone who is reevaluating, and who has regrets. The beauty of this situation is that you don't have to do anything. It is all up to him. Actually, you have one thing to do, and that is to define clearly for yourself how you would like the relationship to be. How you would like to see him. If, when he is stripped of the games, he is no longer exciting to you, then that is your answer. If, when he is just plain old him, he is adorable to you, then that is what you will picture. And when he next contacts you, you can very sincerely, without games, say to him how much you miss that real person, and how much you wish that he had been someone who could have been real with you. That's it. Not asking him to change, just telling him how you wished it could have been, and that somehow the games don't interest you anymore. Then give him time to adjust to this completely new way of being, for you. Could take him months to think it over. But he will think. And no way to know what he will come back with, if he does come back. So meanwhile, you start seeing someone else, you take a nice bath, feel good about yourself. Probably you will feel great, just for asserting yourself, and saying, this is the way I want things. It is all a huge growth step for you, and I applaud you. It may be that you are finally finding your way out of the maze. He is obviously a smart man. We'll see what he comes up with.

i really liked the way you talked about calling himself a jackass. i simply don't know what to believe because he lies so believably! yet there must have been something for him to ever even have been with me, i certainly felt that connection.

the entire problem is i left everything for him and he didn't expect that. i sometimes thinks he and perhaps another dared him to get into my bed.

your advice is priceless. i've told myself that as well, i don't have to do a thing now. well, i certainly did enough moving there. it was a living hell going through all that without help, only to be laughed at in the end.

it's difficult to hold my head high to my friends now, because they all could see how in love i was and how changed!

i'm still angry for losing everything, all for nothing. he should be responsible for something, not just say 'thank you' for making his fantasies come true.

not much chance of me dating anyone, my darlings, i'm not a catch anymore.

he should be responsible for something Dear heart you can't expect someone who acts like a nut to be "responsible".

And what makes you think you aren't a catch anymore? I think this whole surreal relationship has done a number on your self esteem. If you really feel this way, then please see a therapist. Your life sounds like it would be really draining to me. Give yourself time to heal and treat yourself well. You are still a good person and worth it. Okay? :)

i've been trying to "heal" for 5 years now & it's getting rather tiresome thinking about how damaged i allowed myself to get by all the men in my life, past & present. of course, not to worry, i have had lots of counselling & support. they always say the same things to try to help. i've even taken on de-programming myself because of the brainwashing by a friend of his sent to "guard" me & keep me away from him, that occurred the first year when i was so, so innocent & naive.

i have countless journals documenting everything. perhaps this sounds strange, but i even have some dna & fingerprints in case he decided to do some very vicious things to me. i also have family members who know i am not crazy because they have met him in his disguised mode. at that time, they commented how lovingly he looked at me when i wasn't looking.. go figure.. yet he couldn't show it to me. *sigh*

in the end, the whole thing is absolutely ridiculous to me, except for the memory of the real man i was with.

I am sorry to hear about your confusion over this. I guess that with all those years of seeing him, the boundaries between him and you got blurred, and now it seems to you that his ideas are your ideas, and his reality became your reality. It all became a big mess. It could be that he is caught in the same bind, of not being able to define himself except by what he perceives that others see. The disguises give some relief for both of you. A pretend identity is deliberately free from judgment or evaluation, even self evaluation. In this five year "game," there has been so much happening for both of you on so many levels. But in the end, as is always the case, where the experience leaves you is the real test of the nature of this particular connection. Was it life affirming? Did you feel empowered when you were with him? Did you subsequently feel worthless if he ignored you, after contact? Did you begin to define yourself by his wants and desires, likes and dislikes? Did you make yourself into what you thought that he wanted? Did he open up your heart to new possibilities? All those things could be equally true.

I think that when things go sour, we try to see things as black and white, good and bad. In actual fact, the experience was multidimensional, as is all human experience that we approach with our eyes open. There were aspects of it that opened your life up to new horizons. THere may have been times that you enjoyed a new confidence because of exercising these hidden talents or even hidden "identities" (no more than hidden character traits) as you play acted these roles with him. He also could have been emotionally manipulative (you may have been also, reeling him in with those emails -- it may be worth recognizing that you too expressed power in this relationship - you attracted him to you like a magnet, but you were the force that drew him - otherwise he would have tired and gone elsewhere...) and his manipulation likely was designed to weaken your self-esteem and to make you more dependent on him, more fixated on accommodating his needs. (this would be a dramatically co-dependent pattern - I am sure you are familiar with the term, and have applied it to yourself, but it would apply to him here, also) So ultimately, over time, because neither of you knew how to correct this crazy, possibly psychotic at times, life pattern, it is likely that it weakened both of you. I say both because the abuser is as weak as its victim. When one moves, the other is shaken also. The abuser is dependent upon the reactions of the victim, "needs" those responses/reactions, if you will, to "survive." That is the great deception of co-dependence.

You have a long road ahead of you. But the good news is that every person on this site does too, and in fact so do all humans as they make it through life. You are not washed up, but rather in a time of great transition. You are doing a much needed redefining of yourself, your life, your relationships. This shows strength, and is a good thing. I am sure you would love for him to be making this new journey with you, but in actual fact, it MUST be done alone, because you a breaking the ties of codependence. Irrespective of what he is thinking or feeling, from what you have said, it is clear that you have come to define your SELF by what you THINK he thinks of you. Maybe if you look at it that way, you can see how nebulous all that is. There is an easy way out. Strip it all down to just you. Just you. Not you through the eyes of anybody.

I think you are on the right track with the reprogramming. and with your recognition that this latest is simply the iceberg tip showing from a lifetime pattern. I am reading between the lines that you have recognized that your psyche needs a major overhaul. That's okay. It's good in fact. For me the periods of greatest struggle, doubt, even pain, have immediately preceded my periods of greatest sense of fulfillment and growth, even happiness. Enjoy this transition. You know you don't want to stay where you have been. If you loosen the reins of control just a little bit, let go, feel some trust in god if you believe that way, in the universe if you believe that way, just relax, you will be surprised at how quickly the lessons will come to you, how quickly the teachers will appear. Observe other people, how they speak, how they treat each other. Learn from them, what you like, what you don't like. You will be surprised at how quickly you realize that you are not a mushbrain at all, but have very clear preferences, wants, desires, dreams, talents, even wisdoms (yes, even this mess taught you alot!) You don't have to go far to see what is there for you, the beauty that life is offering you right now. You are in a rebirth process, a much needed one. And remember what happens after birth, how quickly the brain grows, the muscles strengthen, the abilities take shape. It happens so quickly at the beginning. so you will enjoy a period of very rapid improvement, a lot of much welcomed learning. This is not the end!!! This is your renaissance. You will call me crazy now, but I will guarantee that in five years, you will look back on this period with gratitude. You will see it for what it is, will treasure its value in shaping the rest of your life. I can see by what you write that you are a person of tremendous talent, with only a thin membrane of self doubt separating you from your dreams. You were a magnet to him before, attracting that particular attention and confusion that he offered, attracting the affirmation of your greatest hopes and greatest fears. Now you will discover that you can be a magnet for immeasurable good. You will begin to attract really fun, interesting experiences that are not damaging, with the same regularity that you attracted his attention. No one person has the corner on fun, mischievousness, or intrigue. Or cleverness. You just opened a door to creativity. If you keep that door open, and begin to attract the good, like I say, you will find a myriad of ways that the creativity can be shared with others, just as much fun as it was with him.

You may want to wander through the self help section of a bookstore and look for a book that addresses changing the messages that we give ourselves, the tapes that run in our brains, our self-talk (usually an echo of childhood messages from parents). Negativity, when focussed on for long periods of time, begets lots more negativity. I have found that using positive affirmations, and reading materials with positive, life affirming empowering messages, has been instrumental in changing my inner dialogue and empowering me. You may find it the same. Repeating to yourself the things you want to be, imagining for yourself the life you want to have, but as a real life possibility, not as a crushed hope -- if you keep the focus squarely positive, will start to attract you to more positive experiences and open doors. Have you ever been around a positive person, and seen how other people will often rush to find ways to help, to assist in little ways or big ways in that person's life? When we are positive, people like us, and it is a law of nature that we will attract more good than if we are negative. There is an AA statement, "fake it 'til you make it." The idea isn't to be fake, but to learn to act as if you are now EXPECTING a positive life, train yourself to expect the happy surprises, and they will come.

I am a big believer that transformation begets transformation. In the end, that is why we are on this site. We are teaching and transforming each other. By you being in contact with me, by me being in contact with you, we are changed, transformed. All this to say that, if you move, if you change, if you transform, you cannot but help to transform the lives of those you touch. If he were to return to your life, he would be changed, because you will have moved, and will no longer be responding in the way you did, will no longer be "helpless" to his charms. You will be in control of your own destiny, he will sense that, and he will either run, or find himself triggered to change himself. It is impossible to say. I agree that he is sick. Perhaps I might stretch a bit further by suggesting that yours is/was a complementary sickness to his. As they say, it takes two to tango. If you saw a need for change in him, I am sure that you are already obsessed with the awareness of the same need in yourself. And I will stretch further by reminding or affirming for you that CHANGE DOES COME! It is our nature to change, and believe it or not, you are already halfway there. The hardest part is behind you. Just relax and let the universe help you in your healing process. Keep your eyes and ears open, and like I said, the teachers will come.

Whew! This was long. I know I am wordy, but this surprised myself. I hope it helps. Blessings. I will pray for you (or with you, depending on the perspective, I guess).

i'm mystified as to why you would take so much time & effort to write this extended response to me.. you've talked about what you see in me, am i that transparent?

i'm one of those people who cannot take a compliment, i've never sincerely believed people when they tell me i'm beautiful or gorgeous or attractive, i just don't see it at all. honestly, it's the truth ~ i see a goofy, lop-sided smile & too open & innocent in the eyes when i look at myself. i'm a dork trying to maintain poise & grace. i'm also aging, i'm a grandmother.......... but still look nowhere near what i am, this is a problem with meeting people ~ i seem to attract people 15-20 years younger than me. it's crazy.... it's so freakin' crazy.............

sure i tried to be what he wanted, but i also wanted to see what that would be like. unfortunately, on one hand he says it doesn't matter what i look like, & he proved that at one time, on the other he pushes me to take better care of myself, perfecting what is possible to change for my own personal satisfaction. in turn, that would, as you say, easily attract anything i wanted.

i had that experience when i was independent, slimmer, more vibrant, not tied down with my responsibilities that i have now with my family. people invited me places, they bought me drinks or dinner, they shared a lot of conversation, they complimented me & wanted to maintain friendships or start relationships. but i had to leave that town, none have stayed in touch. i really miss the stimulation of all that, but not the being watched all the time.

i wish the change would damn well HURRY UP & come! i've been waiting so long.. yes, i've trusted in the universe to handle things before, & my instincts honestly said that i'll be where i'm meant to be, even if the physical body yearns to be elsewhere. of course, i view everything as a learning experience & i asked for this life knowledge outright.

perhaps i resent the waste of time & effort i gave all this. i don't do things thoughtlessly, much planning & expense went into this on my part, & taking much loss...

thank you again. i will try to relax it a little, but after being on full alert for this long, it's extremely hard to chill out. there's always that feeling of being watched..

and thank you for acknowledging that what i felt was real, because it is, despite the disguises. he's an amazing creature, beyond anything imaginable.

I was really glad to read your post this morning! It was full of positive assessments you were making about yourself, and that shows alot of things. It shows that you have recognized your gifts, and at times in your life you have let them show to the world, and have received exactly the response one can expect when she has your sort of charisma. I believe that it is your openness that draws people to you, that you have the gift of making other people feel good, probably have a playful spirit, have the ability to add more to a situation, to see the grace in things.

You have experienced it before, your remember it, and as your remember, you connect to it again. It will be even easier to heal than your realize. You don't need to find a new experience, but just recall the one you already know quite well. You can enjoy your power. We all have a beautiful power inside that expresses through us, and I am sure I do not have to tell you how great it feels when we allow it to express through us. Not so much a power of coercion, but a power of giving, maybe even at times of awakening the good in ourselves and others. I am so happy that you have experienced those wonderful times of being a magnet for other people. I know that the attention must be hard for you, and can understand that discomfort. On this I don't have any clear advice, because I tend to attract not sexual attention but more like the average person just wants to talk to me, to tell me their stories, maybe to be seen by me (meaning be seen with eyes of understanding, really seen). It also attracts romantic attention, and I have the same thing of getting far more romantic interest from men 20 years younger than me than men my age, but I think that it has to do with that curious and adventurous spirit -- I am not jaded, I feel alot of love for life, and frankly I resonate much better with younger people, generally. But anyway, as for the attention, there may be a way to receive it without taking it personally, and respond to it with a kind of purity that deflects some of that "I want" mentality that men can give off. I am thinking of gracefulness. I see it in my mind, a way to be the center of attention, without having it drain you, but probably you will have to find your own way with that.

But you know that old bible saying? I don't know it exactly, but it goes something like better not to hide your light under a bushel, but to bring it out so that it can give light to all in the house. Some people are just meant to shine, and I think you will be much happier once you let your light shine again. It is like letting water flow that has been blocked up and stagnant. It will be wonderful! You will feel so good.

So maybe all you need to do right now is remember yourself! You will be a magnet for your own good. He may be one of things you attract, and may not be, or may not be now, but may be later. I expect that your story with him is not finished, but that the next chapter will probably look nothing like the last ones. It is such an amazing thing, this life. I am so glad that you are able to see the lessons in all your experiences. This relationship with him has been a goldmine of lessons. You now just need to take a little time to extract them.

I think that as a result of this experience, with him and the aftermath of your drawing yourself out of this hole, you are going to really skyrocket to a whole new place in your life. The whole thing will be seen as an incredible gift. You will have grown immeasurably, and will have a new kind of inner strength, that won't be shaken by any encounter, with him or anyone else. In fact, I expect that in the next chapter, you will probably be showing him how to be strong, you will be the one giving the lessons, the one in control in the situation. And the beauty will be that you will have a full life, all without him, full of the friends and the great experiences you have touched before. You will no longer be attached to the outcome of your encounter with him, and it will be that that gives you the freedom to enjoy it, to approach and walk away and approach and walk away without trauma. Do you see it?

As for who I am, I am another 48 year old woman who encountered an age gap relationship that continues to transform my life. If you click on my name, you can read my other posts, to get an idea about my story with my YM, who is 22. We have been through alot of ups and downs over the last year and a half, and now in one week, I will see him again after 3 months, the longest we have been apart, and after I walked away from the relationship, in order to figure out how it had gotten so out of control, to figure out what I needed to learn, to find independence, and to give him a chance to see what he really has with me. When I withdrew, I learned, and eventually he approached again, but I am happy to report that while I have alot of nervous anticipation (he is doing a hermit thing right now, and not answering the phone while he processes things - drives me crazy but I have begun to understand that we all have different styles of dealing with intense emotion -- I talk, he retreats...) I am very happy that I feel extremely stable and strong, and the person that I bring to this relationship on the next go round will be so much different, so much better, with so much more self-respect. While our stories on the outside are very different, yours and mine, our inner journeys are still running some parallels, that resonate with me.

As for the length of my post, I type really really fast, and can compose as quickly as I think. I don't really plan what I say, but pretty much type automatically what comes into my head, when I am expressing ideas about life like this, which means that it takes about as long to type as it would to say it. Plus, I like to talk, so I write like I talk. Sometimes I am distressed when I see how ABSURDLY long my posts are, but I rarely edit them. I somehow think that there may be some unconcious reason why I was led to say a particular thing, especially here, when so many people read what we write, so I just leave it. I figure that people can always skip stuff.

Anyway, I feel really great for you, because it seems from what you said that you are already connecting to that stronger self. Enjoy it! Being as big as you are, being appreciated by other people -- Stretch your muscles, even your wings.... it will feel good!

I would say best of luck, but I think luck has nothing to do with it, so I will just say blessings!

you definitely know how to lift a spirit ~ i have always just let it flow.. only this time he has floated away.. kind of like your hermit. infuriating, but that's him. if he ever decides to do the moth-thing again, i'd be the most surprised person on the planet.

but i still want him..

i wish i could stop thinking about him every moment, the way he said he never stops thinking about me..

love to all.

~ a

Seems like you are taking a deep breath now, a little pause before moving forward. There's no hurry, right?

I think the hardest thing for me in the last year and a half was my impatience. It took me forever to understand that, just because he is not with me this week, or even this month, it doesn't mean that my entire future is desolate and there is no hope for the future. When I think back on how dramatic I have been, everytime we went from up to down.... I would say it is funny, but of course it never was. Not actually funny. The funny thing is how it seems looking back, sometimes like I am looking back on another life, trying to remember how it felt to be that desperate. And some of those times weren't that long ago!

Anyway, at least for now, I seem to have some peace, and understand that life does go on, that it does contain immeasurable good, and there is always next week, next month, and next year. It doesn't all have to happen today, after alll.

I just spoke to my hermit yesterday, and when we talked about the last 3 months that we haven't seen each other, I said, well, at least it is good that we used the time well.... there was a pause as I imagine he tried to figure out what I was talking about, thinking about all those days of depression that both he and I experienced, all the drama and internal questions and self-doubts and fears that surfaced.... and so I explained, because we both took the time to really learn about ourselves, to really think about everything, and now I feel so different, so much more stable. He said, yes, you're right. It is much more stable. And then he said that he has so many things we have to talk about, all different things. Said they are things that we really can't talk about except in person. I am pretty sure that this time around, after both of facing the reality of losing each other, that at least some of that discussion will revolve around how we can plan for a future with each other, as in living in the same place. That conversation will be revolutionary for us, after all the dancing around it that we have done in past times. And I know that it wouldn't have happened if I had kept chasing, if I had kept living in fear, if I hadn't found my own independence, and found the strength to let go. It's that old adage, again can't remember how you say it, about us having to let go before love can truly come to us. something about a bird, maybe, and if when after you let it go, it comes back to you, then you know it was really yours. I feel it now, understand it on a non-word level. It does feel good to be stable about this relationship!!

And I am so looking forward to another week of just being together, in the same place, feeling his presence next to mine in a car, feeling our lives joined in a common purpose, feeling the "us" together as we encounter other people, as we pass through our day. It is the thing I miss most, I think, more than the touching, more than the conversation... just that feeling of having him by my side, in my life, looking over and seeing him pay for the gas, or pick up the bag, or walk over to someone to have a conversation. To just be with him. It makes me want to cry to think about it. Sometimes I am caught up in my life here, and I think about him, and part of me asks myself, what's the big deal about him? It can't really be that different than other men. Probably it is some silly obsession that I should just be able to lose, and find someone more "appropriate" to link up with. At that moment I don't feel the connection. But then another moment like this comes, when I really remember, and I know that it is COMPLETELY different than it has been with even my closest previous relationships. And at those times I know I am on the right path.

I figured out a while back that after I met him, all my decisions became part of a path toward him. Even the decisions to leave him were part of the path toward him. It's the subconscious constant thread through all my activities. Does that make sense to you? I know it is something spiritual, and maybe in time I will fully understand it. But certainly my curiosity and that strong attraction wouldn't let me just walk away. There is more for me here, still so much more. I have to continue, to learn, to explore...

Gotta go now, and blessings to you again!

he's stopped emailing altogether so suddenly about 11 days ago. the last one said 'i want to hold u so badly' at the end. then nothing. it's very unnerving and upsetting.

so, thank you for your kind words again. i know you are right, and i did everything with him in mind too. but it seems it was just a joke to make me do all that, since nothing ever happened.

you seem to think it's not ended though, i'm curious about that.

whatever the connection, it can't just end so abruptly if it's imbedded in us.

i'll be around to see any other responses.

thank you so much.

~ azula

I also have a little bit of an ability to see things... not sure what I mean, but it is kind of like being able to read people or situations. There are many things that appear mysterious or uncertain, but in the end follow certain unspoken, even unconscious patterns. We might not even realize we are registering these things, but we are, we do see, we know far more than we realize.

I know that it is not over with your man, so I am thinking that you must know it also. I am not saying that you know in those scattered surface mind thoughts, those doubts that hound you, but the part that is deeper, the real, listening heart. Do you get me on that? The part that connected with him in the first place is the part that really knows if it is over or not. I think when the pain is great, we WANT to believe it can end, or has ended, so we pile up evidence to that effect. But ask that heart of yours what you think it means when someone ends his last message to you that way.

It isn't a manipulation. He is just doing the hermit thing. I don't have to tell you that this is a man whose intimate encounters are ruled by fear, dominated by fear, have always BEEN dominated by fear. And I suspect that I really mean always. All the way back to the beginning. The games were a way to get intimate and still be safe, still be detached. When you stopped the games, he went smack into the wall. And he is still reeling. Now, all of the sudden, he realizes that the feelings are oh so real. NOW what's he supposed to do? He doesn't even have an inner dialogue for this situation, so possibly like my hermit, he is going inside for some inner conversation with himself, asking himself what can all this mean. This is a little boy we are talking about here, in a man's body. Do you get the picture? Picture a little boy, who was kicked around like a dog, figuratively speaking, for so long that he is absolutely sure that, while he craves love, it is anything but safe, and all his "instincts" tell him that it will never be safe.

This is a formidable obstacle for love to overcome! If the love is really strong, he will have no choice but to come face to face with that wall, with that obstacle, over and over again. He will walk away, even see someone else, occupy his mind and time over and over, and then in his quiet moments, there you are again, there is that feeling of lightness, the laughter, the connection. Above all, the connection. If you felt it, you can bet that he felt it.

There are some people who are just too damaged to find their way alone through that desert and over that wall. I think that my hermit was one of those. Remember that I went through h--- for a year and half, at least more than half the time. And we are just now making the final approach here and maybe coming in for a landing in a week or two. The reason we are making it, no, reasons (plural), all come back to one final connecting thread. This may sound too simple to you, but it was my faith in him, my faith in the relationship. I don't know how many times that I just talked to him as if I assumed that he had declared his love for me, though he had not in words, and I just declared it to him. I also told him that in my eyes he was perfect, that he was exactly what I had always wanted. I fed him reassurance after reassurance, even when he was rejecting me. I wrote him letters he could read later. Even when I finally pulled away completely, I did it with declarations of my constant love, and that I was only pulling away because since he did not have the control to stop hurting me, I had to keep myself from being hurt, to respect myself. I made it absolutely clear that I was leaving because HIS love was not YET constant, not because I did not love him. I made it clear that I loved too much to be facing his indecision.

And at times, in the face of all these reassurances, he would confess to me how much fear he felt, how much he missed me, how his life fell apart each time I left, and just when he was able to put it back together, poof! I would return and he would fall apart again. I had these moments of honesty, which confirmed the truth through all the many many ways and times that he ran away, tried to push me away, to hurt me into believing that he wasn't worth it.

Now WHY on earth did I pick this simple, flawed human being to pour my deepest and heartfelt devotion upon, when there are really fabulous men right under my nose, who even call and would like to see me, and who are really hot, smart, spiritual, etc? Why him? I have no idea!!!! Isn't that funny?? I don't know why just meeting him turned my life upside down, why someone who has so little to show for his life, so many mistakes behind him, appears to me to be the most incredible man on earth. It isn't that I don't see him clearly. I always saw him clearly. I know the flaws. And I love the flaws, too. I love the man. All of him. It is hard to explain, but it is because the love is this kind of love, a love without conditions, without requirements, that I know it is so real. It was that fact that made me able to continue even when my heart feltlike it was breaking. (It didn't break! To the contrary -- it got stronger!) To never give up. Something in me kept saying, he loves you too, he loves the same way too. It doesn't happen like this unless both of you feel it. He feels it too. He can't leave you either, ever. You are meant to be together. And also told me that his heart was good, that this time would pass, and that he will be strong, and true, and loyal, and everything I could ever want in a partner. If I can be patient.
Anyway, it is late, and I am on my way again, only 4 more days before I am back in that clear CRan air, and looking up at star-FILLED sky! when I arrive. I can't wait.

Take care, and keep the faith -- in you, and in life. You will be taken care of. Your heart is big, and it is strong. Listen and it will tell you the truth about this man. Trust yourself, above all. Right?

After reading this over, I wanted to say something else. Not sure how. My faith in him gave me another gift also, in this last year and a half. When I listened to my heart, it also guided me toward all sorts of other prosperity. Somehow, just listening to my heart -- recognizing that I had to leave an unproductive, mismatched marriage, recognizing that I needed to realign my career and my goals, to find a more meaningful way to spend the rest of my life-- all seemed to proceed out of my awakening heart. It was all part of the same package. This may not seem related to you, but I think that because I was willing to trust, to take the risk, to feel that heart connection with him, it became the rule in the rest of my life too. I became more loving and open and trusting with everyone, and my life started to reflect it. My relationship with my ex is better than it ever was. My work relationships are a dream. My income is maybe -- I don't know --6 times what it was when I started this? Miracles, coincidences, have become commonplace. I find myself at the right place at the right time, my life flows... it gets dammed up again only when I block my own heart again out of fear.

It seems that fear is the big enemy here. I don't know if this makes sense to you... I know it is going out on a limb, but I guess all I am trying to say is that if you decide to take the path of trusting your own self, your feelings, your instinct, your heart, your inner compass, your god, however you are most comfortable seeing it, the rewards are really endless. It is like something gets unblocked, and god (if you see it like that) is able to give you what it is that you are really meant to have, in wisdom, in comfort, in love, in everything. It is waiting. A matter of opening a door. So, if you proceed without fear, even if your specific expectations at this moment are not met, I can guarantee you that life will deliver something even better. So much more to enjoy, if you can just kick fear out of your bed. Does this make sense? I am surprised I even wrote it here. But spirituality is also a very real part of many of our lives, and it is hard to talk solutions without at least acknowledging it.

You ever heard the expression, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear? Life is full of teachers, for a heart that is eager to learn, I am finding.

Take care, and blessings!

my heart? it still says something is there, even though there is no evidence presented. how could i even have been involved with him at all?

i look at his photos, know that is not the real him, see what he presents to the world, remember him in the deepest of nights.. wish so much i could just grab him & escape forever somewhere safe, private..

what he does irritates me now, even though it is his living ~ & many others'.. i'm not in the least idolizing the shell, the music i know is composed to elicit emotional responses, he's much funnier than most people know.

he had a partner though i thought, much younger, cute, smart, etc. it was interesting to note that when i met her, i saw through her eyes. there was no warmth in them or at the mouth, though i smiled an honest smile at her. indeed, i spoke of her to other people there & they sort of rolled their eyeballs about her, which shocked me. i had thought they were all a jolly group of friends. it was at that moment that i rose from the table, bade my good eves (was asked by another musician insistently to stay! ~ they both saw this), i walked towards the exit where he was standing & shoved him out of the way as i went up the stairs. glory hallelujah, i felt brilliantly elegant that night, leaving like a goddess, with my dignity well intact. a few months later i heard she cheated on him with someone who works for him, to get back at him for apparently cheating on her, & then they were working on things. who knows what is true? i've seen their dynamics & it's not what a couple in love presents. it made me shake my head... can you believe it? i didn't even feel the least bit jealous, that's how blah they were.

he still fills my thoughts every day.

i am a very strong person, that is true. i am so very ready to receive. i'll keep you posted when the abundance begins to pile up!

:D

hi there. I just read your post from 5/31. I haven't visited since back then, and wonder how things are lately.

I wanted to tell you that I went for my 9 day trip at the end of May beginning of June, and we did have a great time, though there are still the mood swings and ups and downs for him, and I continue to wait for his decisionmaking process to be complete, and for him to get past the last little fortresses of fear in himself.

One big change was that we didn't do "work". The purpose of this trip was us. He took me around to the family ALOT, we went roller skating (he is great at it!), he taught me how to body surf in a beautiful remote beach, we went up above the city at 1 am with a friend of his who plays guitar, and sang to the stars at the top of our lungs, looking out over the valley ---- there were alot of nice moments. And some crazy fights, too. We took his grandparents on a cross-country jaunt (remember that they love me alot - and they both told me that they love me like one of their kids, and that they were really sad when I didn't call for 3 months - figured I was coming and going without telling them!). It all ended with their 50th weddingt anniversary, and I went as my YM's date, in front of literally the whole town! The cathedral was filled with the simple good people of that town, and there we were in front, with the rest of the family. It was almost surreal.

I guess to really appreciate how radical that was, you would have to know the absolute extreme craziness that encompassed the last year. Just as one example, there was the final straw for me 3 months ago, when he talked to his ex girlfriend in front of me no less than six times in one day, and told me that he loved her more than me because of how long they know each other, though he feels for her completely differently than for me. Six times, from 6:30 am to 1:00 am the next morning! and distant from me, at the same time. I was completely beside myself with sadness and frustration. And from that, because I pulled back, because I found my own inner strength, he did too, broke it off with her, and was really available to me for the first time on this trip. He is deciding.

He pulled away for the last couple of days, but this time I understood better, and I left happy. I now know that giving in to fear in one moment does not negate the dozens of other moments. And I am back in the mode of expecting miracles, and I know they are happening and will continue to come.

Life is good!

And now, in another two weeks, I will be there again, but this time for a month! And whether he comes to me or not, I know that I will have a great time, because I am now thoroughly enjoying my own life! Listen to this! I actually believe that if he doesn't come to me, if he misses out on all that fun, it will be HIS loss, even more than mine. In fact, I suspect that I will find a way to turn the "loss" into a gain! There is a real beauty and stability in finding my own self. I am now recognizing that my own fears and insecurities played a huge role in his need to keep backing off and thinking things over. Had I been able t o treat it light, he would have been able to watch me from close up, not needing to pull back to gain emotional distance from my obvious emotional needs and implied demands. I had alot to learn. I wanted him so much, wanted it to work so much, that I drove a wedge between us. I remember him saying that things need time to grow, that I wanted to rush things too much. He once said, "I can walk all the way to China. But I can't do it in one hour." My response is, well I could always walk with you, but I think I had missed the point. Being with me WAS China!

Anyway, just wanted to check in, to see if you are still checking in, and to finish the story of what happened to my YM and I after our hiatus.

your story is going along so beautifully, & what a lovely time it sounds like.. thanks for writing me again. the hermiting sounds very similar..

i think he wants me to go to europe & find him (the band is touring there in a couple of months), but i have not got the money to just pick up & do that! grrr... he claims i "will not budge or live or love" him like i claim i do. that's bullying, isn't it?

i understand this crazy guy, but not why he resorts to being so angry when i stand my ground..

hey, tell me how your income grew so huge so quickly! i need to know how to do that ~ i'm stagnating here!

~azula

Hi! Nice to be in touch again. I should check this site more, but I don't. I take it that you are in touch with him again, if he is being angry at you not going to Europe, or at least implying anger. Did he contact you again, or did you reach him and he replied?

I can kinda understand that weird anger over you not "putting your money where your mouth is" as he is trying to characterize it. It might be just habitual way that you guys related before. Maybe you were more the pursuing one, and he was the retreating one. Now you turned the tables by retreating, and he can't get used to the new order. He wants to push you into pursuing again, so that he again again play the cat and mouse, and retreat so he will feel good to look behind and see you there following, giving him that needed ego boost. This change frustrates him, maybe, and will continue to until he realizes that the game plan has really shifted and he will have to shift and start giving you more.

I don't know if this all fits, because you didn't give much in the way of details, but thought I would put it out there.

I have that sort of situation with my YM. I was always the one coming and going, calling, pursuing, declaring my love, reassuring him, crying, demonstrating how much he mattered. Then it got to the point that he was giving me so little, and I was wanting more, so I just called it off, unless he wanted to make the relationship more of a real relationship. Well, guess what? Every time I backed off, it took him a month or two, but sure enough, eventually he pursued. Granted, he pursued in a pretty lukewarm way, compared to the typical aggressive male, but he did make the phone calls, say the words, I miss you, etc., and keep talking to me until I agreed to see him again. Told me things would be different now, etc.

But! As soon as I came back on the scene, he would start falling into the old retreating patterns. It was very hard for me not to fall into the old following him as he retreats patterns. Very hard, becuase I had a year and a half habit, too, to break. But break it I must. For instance, when he was too distant, and took off with god knows who late on my last night, I just deprived him of his goodbye, and took myself to the airport the next day. He was dumbfounded. And I didn't call. And now, after learning I am back there July 3, he wrote me a very sweet email, asking me to call him. You catch that? He wants me to call him again, though he knows full well that he can call me. He wants to retrain me to be his puppy again, wants to see if I will really be different. I admit that I did call, tried, a couple of times, and left a message. But that was a week ago, and I haven't called again since, and don't plan to. He pulled the same thing last time, and I expect that he will again be there in San Jose, waiting for me when we arrive, which is 2 hours away from where he lives. Part of it is some weird male pride thing. He doesn't want to pursue, he wants to be pursued. But I am teaching him SLOWLY that if he wants me, he will have to show me, and tell me, and pursue me, too. My plan is to be there, be friendly, invite him to join us, but if he pulls back, just very happily say, OK, fine, then maybe we'll catch each other later in the month. That is sure to dumbfound him. And I will bet you money that he will do an about face pretty quick.

But I guess with these strange sorts of guys, full of fears, this readjustment process takes time. I think my ace in the hole with my guy has always been that he really knows now that I love him, but really love him. No matter what his little chatter of fears tells him, deep down he knows that my love is safe, so he will eventually be brave enough to really drop the fears completely, and expose himself more to me emotionally. How do I know that? Well, there is the last year and half to point to. After all that time, and those ups and downs, he is still there, isn't he? Still trying to convince me, on some level, while he does his little ambiguous dance. I was there at the big event with his family, though he largely ignored me at the party after, and left his family to entertain me. I do understand, I feel him, in a real, profound way. Someone else might not get it, but I have a feeling that you do. It is a different kind of connection, that makes me sure that he loves as deeply as I do, just with more fear.

Anyway, enough on that. As for money, how does it come in such a huge increase? A whole lot of reasons, and most of it a topic for probably a different website, or at least a private email. It has to do with cleaning myself up internally, releasing blocks, forgiveness, self-awareness, spiritual awakening, positive thinking. Sounds like alot, and it is, but actually for me it has been made easy by taking some courses called 4T prosperity classes that are offered by the Unity churches. Not unitarian, but Unity. They are based out of Missouri originally, but are mostly everywhere, loosely christian but open to all sorts of teachings, and very much based in the idea that god is good, all the time, and that we are meant to be happy and prosperous. There is alot of focus on how what we believe and have faith in will manifest in our lives, both positive and negative. For instance, these crazy relationships of you and I are partly a product of our own expectations, maybe subconscious, but still there. When we change our own inner dialogue, the external has to change too. When a person really begins to grasp this concept, this simple power to initiate changes that we possess within us, then the changes start to happen much more rapidly. Instead of waiting for things to happen, we start to make them happen by directing our own desires. The idea is that we are naturally led to wish for and want the things that we are meant to have, which means that we have to begin to learn to trust our own intution, trust ourselves, pursue our dreams. There is a lot of reprogramming ourselves to do, which is why the structure o f the course is so helpful. It uses all sorts of mental and spiritual "tools" you might say, like affirmations, some light 12-step work, visualization exercises. Kind of a full diet on re-thinking your own thinking patterns. Since I started that course, my life has been completely transformed. It would take too much to describe it here, but I really recommend that course for some good basic beliefs that are easy to live by.

Since the prosperity has happened in all areas -- friendship, contentment, nicer home, end of bad marriage, daughter doing great, business expanding, investments paying off, new book contracts, work in CR taking off amazingly, deep love inside me for my YM...... it would be hard to tell you a formula for making it happen. More like maybe can suggest a general direction, and the specific helps along the way will come to you. I have lots of books I could recommend, if you email me. Oh and last week, someone who is not from Unity recommended I see a movie that is on sale on the internet for $5.00. It is called The Secret, and the website is called www.thesecret.tv. If you type that, you can actually open the site, pay with a credit card or paypal, and view the movie right on your screen. It is really good!

Anyway, time for me to sleep now. This week they are remodeling my bathroom finally! And redid the pool last week. And my brother gave me some nice furniture. And this week 3 refi's on my own properties.... So my last week is bound to be a bit busy, before I am gone for the month. Plus some parties planned, just before I go. But it is all good, and I am so excited to move on to the next step, in all these areas of my life, and especially the relationship.

I will try to check in when I am down there, and will be curious to hear more about what happens with you. All the best!

thanks again, magical one, for the insight ~ it's amazing how you can see how this is.. the only problem is he has not physically been near me for a very long time now, that i know of.. he could have been hanging around, but he always wanted me to guess that..

he's already said that i have outlasted anyone else over the course of 10 years.. not that it means much, my life hasn't been greatly enhanced by him.. i'm just laughing at him at this point..

i've read about polyamorous relationships & he's the kind of person that would love something like that, since it's rare to find everything you want in one person.. but he doesn't want it to 'cost' him anything, except the offer of 'love'.. but i only want one person to belong to me alone................

i will check out that movie ~ i'm needing some empowerment!

happy trails to you,
azula

Azula,

Hope you like the movie, and that this becomes a month of new explorations for you. There is alot to ponder, new ideas to try on. Have fun with it. I plan to have at least some "do nothing" time in the next month, though I am already filling up a good chunk of time with meetings, work stuff. It is fun, and peaceful, but also pretty busy when I go to CR, generally. I think I have forgotten how to completely relax, even when on "vacation." So I bought 3 properties, am doing development, started a conservation foundation, thinking of putting together a resort investment, and another group to buy a huge parcel..... I guess you could say I am a restless soul, but other people always say how peaceful I am. Life is full of contradictions, yes?

I am still waiting for my YM's call. I suspect that he won't, and will just be waiting there when I arrive again, as he has been before. I don't get it completely, but it seems to be his mode at this point in his life. I am so looking forward to this trip....I expect that there will be so many new ideas. Some periods of one's life are just meant for change, lots of change, and this is one of those for me. In all areas -- physical, career, romantic, spiritual -- huge and dramatic ones, also!

Anyway, thanks for the well wishes. It is pretty amazing, and I am pretty blessed!

I hope you enjoy the movie. Just remember as you watch it that those ideas work, whether you want them to or not. What you think, you will see, in one form or another!

I wish blessings for you, too! Have a fun month...

Magic

Im Sooooo Super Curious Now. i tried to privet message A. But no luck,

Iv been Following this entire thred, for the whole evening it seems, And I just want to know one thing..


WHO IS THIS GUY!!!!!!!!

p.M. ME. pLEASE

perhaps if he's not going to call, it's meant to be, i suppose..

well, if you ever need a top notch assistant, here i am! you have some great business going on there ~ how i'd love to get something really big going, just waiting for that time to feel right.. i know a fair amount about people & business..

but he sent a very nasty email today, it didn't even sound like him.. i can see his true colors now ~ one week he's all loving and dreamy, the next it's:

obviously you still haven't the foggiest clue what i am actually talking about; and i am only lashing out because once i'm gone i don't want any regrets about warning you fairly that i am leaving, and i never retreat, i am one great treat.

furthermore you are never happy for me. you seem to think i need you to be very
happy!

"what has happened?"--EVERYTHING! but seriously, i dont need anything and i
simply decided to stop waiting for you to quit being so ******* timid.

sorry, again, but you're so humble, so i'm sure it won't be too big of a deal
now that i'm finally realizing my senses and dumping your ***.

:)

isn't that something? my insides are so soft & that is what he said he adored, but he wanted me to change & not be timid.. i cannot just start being aggressive out of nowhere. i'm not comfortable like that.. i admit i've done some things spur of the moment, i've lost everything, but i'm not spending one more cent to try & be around him..

i am very sad..

narcissistic jerk...plain and simple.

No more sadness on his sorry a** account!!! It had nothing to do with you...it's all about him (literally:mad: ).

Hugs, sweetie,
Karen

thank you, karen.. i don't know if narcissistic or just so confident that it doesn't matter what anybody says.. he's humble in other ways, his humanitarian efforts & unseen support of many charitable organizations..

but enough about him, i need to concentrate on what i am doing for myself to be peaceful & serene & healthy.. that's a major effort during this time of change. i don't do well with change yet, sometimes i have, but other times i've done things too fast or in the wrong direction. so, i'm letting things fall into place right now, focusing on the goodness around me for REAL.

gotta run, thanks again!

~ a

he's been hinting that someone else might be interested in truly loving him.. well, we all know that no one else could possibly put up with the weirdness i have, not to the extreme that happened with us.. i gave it all up for him & this is what i got~

i have not experienced the ultimate physical love for
quite some time, having in truth declined multiple offers--counting at least
once an offer for multiple physicalities!--because i know my love for you is
'the real thing'. BUT,.. forget my love, please, forget me and the fact that i
have been and will always remain in love with u; call me a coward if you wish, i
know there is truth in that; call me weak if you wish, again the truth lays
there; but do not call me any-more, ever-again.

he's also admitted he is a pathological liar, so what's true & what isn't? it's anybody's guess.. he's off for a couple of days, so it's even possible he'll show up here! he's THAT crazy.. or not.....

this guy has mastered the art of mind-raping, only because i can't use the "f" word here. he's very familiar to me...mixed messages galore, wrapped in a pseudo intellectual format.

give him up. it's a sick/symbotic relationship. you'll never win in this.

he's been hinting that someone else might be interested in truly loving him.. well, we all know that no one else could possibly put up with the weirdness i have, not to the extreme that happened with us.. i gave it all up for him & this is what i got~

i have not experienced the ultimate physical love for
quite some time, having in truth declined multiple offers--counting at least
once an offer for multiple physicalities!--because i know my love for you is
'the real thing'. BUT,.. forget my love, please, forget me and the fact that i
have been and will always remain in love with u; call me a coward if you wish, i
know there is truth in that; call me weak if you wish, again the truth lays
there; but do not call me any-more, ever-again.

he's also admitted he is a pathological liar, so what's true & what isn't? it's anybody's guess.. he's off for a couple of days, so it's even possible he'll show up here! he's THAT crazy.. or not.....


And, knowing this, why are you continuing to talk to this guy? I agree completely with Kat7 about what he is doing, but I think you need to ask yourself why you are allowing him to do this.

he wrote again after that, trying to tell me he knows what love is. well, i have little evidence, except him popping up unexpectedly & freaking me the hell out with his latest "look"! the reasons i didn't go with him after the first few times in disguises were - girlfriend on the scene, i didn't want to feel pressured to have sex with him because i'd never know if i'd see him again, no offer of anything 'normal' to feel secure.

let's see, the reasons for still communicating? i think it's just been the way we have been with each other ~ game-playing, role-playing, saying outrageous things together, doing unbelieveable things together, all with me never breaking character.. he found that stunning.. it's the way actors/artists are. it's not like how most people live their lives. so, everything he says is part of the "act", how he looks and represents himself is so fully calculated and planned..

yeah, he's brilliantly insane...........

it's the way actors/artists are.


I have several actor/artist friends and not one of them does this kind of thing.

Now, I could see him doing this within a role playing game. But, that's not how you've described your situation.

But, my question still is, why do you even talk to him? What do you get out of this?

you misunderstood ~ i didn't say all actors/artists DO this type of thing, i was talking about going deep into character, sometimes blurring the lines of personality.

this particular kind of art is his own style, he does it to play with life, appearance, voice, words ~ i happened to be one of the few who understood that. i happened to have repeated encounters with him, each of us knowing who we really were, while the people around us were oblivious.. it was hysterical to me.. damn, i fell in love with that clown.

sometimes i think he's still just acting pissed off & having yet another "break up" with me. there have been so many, i've lost count! he's very entertaining & challenging..

:)

i guess......if you like the opposite of authenticity....

i can understand the attraction to this for a short period, but not the long haul. i think i might question whether or not i've lost sight of the essence of why we are on the planet if i still found this still appealing...

there was a line in "henry and june" where anais nin's cousin warns her about her abberant taste in sex: "if you continually find delight in the abnormal, you lose your taste for what is normal."

you might want to consider this....

i guess......if you like the opposite of authenticity....

i can understand the attraction to this for a short period, but not the long haul. i think i might question whether or not i've lost sight of the essence of why we are on the planet if i still found this still appealing...

there was a line in "henry and june" where anais nin's cousin warns her about her abberant taste in sex: "if you continually find delight in the abnormal, you lose your taste for what is normal."

you might want to consider this....

I couldn't agree more.

Azula, I have followed this thread for the past 4 months and to this day, I am confused about why you posted this. You don't seem bothered by this 10 year long thing that has been going on between you. In fact, your posts read to me as if you really enjoy it.

My question to you is, what is it that you are seeking to gain from sharing information about your situation with him here on this age gap forum? The issues going on between you two have nothing to do with age gaps. So, I have to admit... I'm confused and not sure what advice or support you are seeking from us, even after all this time on this thread. Just what is the point you were trying to make with this thread and what is it that you need from the members here?

:confused:

I couldn't agree more.

Azula, I have followed this thread for the past 4 months and to this day, I am confused about why you posted this. You don't seem bothered by this 10 year long thing that has been going on between you. In fact, your posts read to me as if you really enjoy it.

My question to you is, what is it that you are seeking to gain from sharing information about your situation with him here on this age gap forum? The issues going on between you two have nothing to do with age gaps. So, I have to admit... I'm confused and not sure what advice or support you are seeking from us, even after all this time on this thread. Just what is the point you were trying to make with this thread and what is it that you need from the members here?

:confused:

Count me in with agreeing with you two!! :D

I too, have watched this thread and not posted so far because I didn't see any need . . . didn't see any age gap problems at all.

So far, my take on this is: {warning!! this is going to sound rude . . . no way around it!!} The OP is seeking attention from us. She is obviously not getting attention she needs from this weirdo freak she has wasted the last 10 years of her life on and she can't seem to get away from the pattern she has set for herself. Self esteem issues are great here I believe. Counseling would be in order big time!! I can't imagine putting up with for one minute what she has described, I don't care who he is!!!! No man, and I mean no man, is worth that :mad:

don't worry, i've had counselling ~ from friends to professionals ~ i'm not seeking attention here, my apologies if it seems that way. the entire story is entertaining itself though.

in terms of the age gap though, perhaps i wasn't clear about that. he's 11 years younger and could have anyone he wants, that would put up with this role-play thing, but it was me who had the problem with being older. i think i avoided him because i think he just wanted to try me out as a kick at first. but then he said he had never felt like that with anyone, hence him being really confused with feelings of love. i just know what i felt too, and i fought it tooth and nail, while playing these games. i didn't want to get hurt so i was the brave face, pretending i was nonchalant about everything.

as i said, i've talked to plenty of people about this. the consensus was he did fall in love, but was confused by my seeming lack of wanting to follow him around. there's much more to the story, it isn't that simple.

findthemagic had it right. he doesn't know how to handle this and neither do i, so i let go. whatever happens, happens.

you know what? sorry if i wasted your time kat, whiterose and peachy, & anyone else who can't figure it out. you should just not read it & move on. i happen to think it's a very unique story, that's why i wrote about it, plus i wanted to see how others handle their older women status in relationships.

it's a shame i feel such anger coming at me.

you know what? sorry if i wasted your time kat, whiterose and peachy, & anyone else who can't figure it out. you should just not read it & move on. i happen to think it's a very unique story, that's why i wrote about it, plus i wanted to see how others handle their older women status in relationships.

it's a shame i feel such anger coming at me.

What anger?? :confused: I haven't seen anyone become angry with you. As for me, while I have been confused, that certainly doesn't make me angry. What you choose for yourself in your own life is your business.

But, as a member and a moderator here, I am trying to understand how we can help you. That's why I asked. I wasn't sure how I could help since I am unclear what the issue really is. And I had difficulty understanding from reading your posts if you found this thing going on between the two of you for the past 10 years to be upsetting to you or if you find it fun and just wanted to share it with others. :confused:

Typically when most people come here, they have a problem they feel they need help sorting out. It sounds like findthemagic has been able to help you. Perhaps the rest of us could if we really understood what the issue really is.

One thing about me Azula... I ask probing questions quite often to get you to think about things. If you are indeed upset by this relationship and frustrated... then go back and re-read the questions I've posed to you in other posts on this thread. My question to you is, and always has been, why do you stay in it if you don't like what he does?

Put aside HIS responsibility. What is your own?

No anger here either. More like pity . . . pity that you have been wasting this time of your life when you should be out there living!!!

hey there.....

most of us here have been in, are in, or desire to be in....age gap relationships. 95% of us ARE the older women in relationships and we ARE here to share and learn how we handle these relationships. so i'm not sure where you are coming from in saying "i wanted to see how others handled their older women status in relationships."

i'm sorry you feel i was projecting anger towards you. i re-read my post to you, and i don't see anger anywhere there.....esp. not aimed at you, but perhaps some cynicism.

trust me, i know entertaining and challenging!!! my relationship for 5 yrs with a much younger man was just that in so many ways. brilliant, complicated men are usually that way....and we often lose sight of who we are when we're in these relationships...yours is just taken to a different level with the known mascarading.

the words you quoted him as saying is what i was reacting to....listen, i "get it." yes it's intriguing and entertaining....for a while....and then it just becomes a long term exercise in mental and emotional masturbation....and lacks real meaning, no matter how much you want to ascribe to it. that's my opinon for what it's worth.
i'm trying to support you, not tear you down!!!

the consensus was he did fall in love, but was confused by my seeming lack of wanting to follow him around. If this is what you got from therapy, I would want my money back. Therapy needs to be about YOU and why you are still drawn to his drama.

I do think that you should go back to counseling and try to extract yourself from his life and role playing. Honestly, the man sounds dangerous to me.

I wish you well though in whatever you chose to do. :)

as i said, i've talked to plenty of people about this. the consensus was he did fall in love, but was confused by my seeming lack of wanting to follow him around. there's much more to the story, it isn't that simple.



Are you saying that you spoke to people who actually know him "in real life?" Or, did these people who gave you this opinion do so based upon what you have told them about him?

If they don't know him, but rather based their opinion on things you've said about him, then how could they possibly know if he loves you or not? How could they anyway? Only he would know that.

None of us really knows anything about him other than what you've said. I'm not so certain that I agree with Yellowrose that he is all that dangerous. I don't think any of us can assume to know either him or you.

& freaking me the hell out with his latest "look

perhaps this sounds strange, but i even have some dna & fingerprints in case he decided to do some very vicious things to me.

so there's not much chance of hanging out unless he decides to stalk me again

i've even taken on de-programming myself because of the brainwashing by a friend of his sent to "guard" me & keep me away from him, that occurred the first year when i was so, so innocent & naive.

These statements are why I thought he sounded dangerous. But of course, I really don't know what is going on, except she really needs to move on.

Hi Azula,

I justed wanted to let you know that as incredible & unique as your situation must feel, some of us have really have been hooked up with guys like this man.

Believe us when we say we *know* how crazy and obsessed this guy makes you fell, and how hard it is to regain your perespective, sanity, self esteem and get your mind off him for good. You are not an attention seeker and you're not crazy...you're just behaving as most normal, nice people do when they get hooked up with a Narcissist.

Narcissistic personality Disorder is a terrible disorder. People who unsuspectingly fall in love with these highly charismatic people all wind up obsessed and ultimately wasting months, years, or whole lifetimes obsessed with these people, instead of getting on and finding real love.

In the end, you have to treat your obsession with great seriousness, and make forgetting him your highest priority. You will feel great withdrawrals and your mind will twist and turn on itself so you can get your `fix'...but you have to cut all contact with him for good. This is the ONLY way forward for you.

There are some things you MUST understand about NPD:

1. There is absolutely NO hope of this working this out. ZERO

2. He does not love you, never has.

3. The only reason he keeps you `hooked' is to derive `attention' type energy from you and to feed his delusions. He doesn't care where this energy comes from....multiple `sources' are ideal for him. You are an object to him...an energy source. He doesn't love you.

4. When he has other `sources' of adoration, your importance diminishes...he may behave cruelly because he doesn't need your attention `fix'

5. When he is low for energy sources, he will seek you out because he knows you will be there. He will lie, make declarations of love, do something spectacular or treat you with `cool distain'....whatever it takes to get you `hooked' on him again.

6. As close as may get to him sometimes, he always will disappear and dump you in a cruel fashion because of that closeness.

7. When he feeling low on attention, he will say and do what it takes to `hook' you back in, for as long as you allow yourself to be hooked.

Now Azula, this meaningless, loveless cycle can be your life, or you can do the HARD work and beat your obsession. .

If you do not, people will distance themselves from you because of it..because they can't stand to watch you go through it. You will become isolated and even more dependent on your `fix'. Your life will crumble and you will not reach your own potential.

Please Azula, everyone is telling you the same thing. Please help yourself, as noone else can but you.

yes, he has more than one disorder. we've talked plenty about that. he used to also be a speed freak ~ like who of those bands weren't? i'm sure that's done something to how his brain works. he's also intensely bipolar ~ moods worse than any pms i've ever heard of..

i know i have to cut off completely. but it's just sometimes i don't know who the real online or physical friends are & who might be him. i have thought i was talking to someone totally different & suddenly the same things will start happening in conversations. there are some people i suspected were part of it who i felt genuine friendship & affection with, & they still call me, invite me for dinner, or to visit them in california or new york, or they give or offer me things. so does that mean i ditch everyone i've ever befriended since i've been on my own so i wipe the slate completely? it just makes me feel so sick to think of cutting everyone off. they'd totally wonder why.

well, thanks for listening to me. i've not given in to giving him a phone number or address to reach me (he says he wanted to send me something), for a year & a half. but somehow he has found out. he has commented on my comings & goings, on my weight especially & that he wants me to lose weight, so someone is watching or listening to me somehow. i can't stop that. he's read my emails somehow because he has repeated specific words from in them. i've changed email address, i've changed computers 3 times. it's really easy to find a person, especially if you use a computer at work.

okay, enough of that now. thanks for all your input, it's not anything i don't know, but as i've been writing about him more on here, he has pulled away, as you have read. it's no coincidence.. he's tried to make me feel bad for saying who it is, but i don't really care if people know, all his friends do. it's shouldn't have ever been a 'secret' if he ever had real feelings, i know that.

i want to write a little more later on. i'm too emotional right now.

~ a

thank you for saying i'm not crazy. it was a priority for him & his friends to convince me i was, but i never succumbed, i knew damn well who i was with & what was going on. i also saw how he interacted with others when disguised, which gave me a huge insight into things.

perhaps i also 'got back' at him in the same ways he used to 'hook' me, making me ultra-challenging. anyway, my self-esteem may have faltered, but it's far from destroyed. i can hold my head up & let the people who love me, love me. thank god they all know the truth too.

thanks again for the energy & thoughtfulness you have offered me. it does not go unacknowledged! thank you for seeing through to the real me, i am sincere.

~ a

Well best of luck to you Azula. I know its hard to cut off from someone special to you who you have loved so much and longed for so dearly.......not just him, but the life & good people surrounding them too. Its awesomely hard, and part of why people get stuck in such a bad mess.

I can relate to what you're feeling as I remember how depressing it felt to recognise that if I wanted my sanity and life back, I would have to cut off from a lot of people I really wanted in my life.

My ex was an actor and my life with him was exciting as heck. I was forever flying around to exotic film locations, having dinner with people like Keiffer Sutherland and other famous people, and meeting people who were really fun & inspirational.
I became close to his family and friends and their children too. In many ways, his life became my life too over the time we lived togther.

It was awful leaving it all behind. I didn't have much left after I totally cut off from him, that life, and those people. My life was boring, lonely, overwhelming and in pieces.... and so I went back to him more times than I should have.

I think if I could finally cut off from soemone like that, anyone can. I'm not strong, I hate letting people go, I am stubborn and I easily deluded myself. Most people are not so silly as I was.

When I finally did make a full committment to cut off, it wasn't too long before I got a really good job, and met a really great man who is now my fiance. I wouldn't trade this wonderful, love-filled life i have now for anything I've experienced in the past.

Oh, and Azula, I would strongly recommend that you google `narcissistic personality disorder' or `NPD' and find a related forum....suite101.com has a good one. You need the support of people who have been in your shoes, who will understand what you're going through.

X Bel

My mother has (undiagnosed) intellectual NPD - the vast majority of people with NPD go undiagnosed because it's nearly impossible to get them to stick with a psychologist who is telling them things they don't want to hear. ~shudder~

It's not that they don't love. They only love to the best of their own abilities which, unfortunately, isn't a healthy love by anybody's standards except their own.

Anyway. He doesn't sound brilliantly artistic or whatever it is to me. He sounds selfish and screwed up. And I feel sorry for you because you're obviously addicted to the little morsels of himself that he throws your way at whim.

I'm really sorry to hear that Kelly...well she raised a very kind and beautiful daughter.

Azula said:
i've not given in to giving him a phone number or address to reach me (he says he wanted to send me something), for a year & a half. but somehow he has found out. he has commented on my comings & goings, on my weight especially & that he wants me to lose weight, so someone is watching or listening to me somehow. i can't stop that. he's read my emails somehow because he has repeated specific words from in them.

I agree with Barb...the guy sounds not only messed up, but potentially dangerous:( .

Kelly said:
He doesn't sound brilliantly artistic or whatever it is to me. He sounds selfish and screwed up.

Agree....totally screwed up.

Stick to you resolve, Azula...this guy has wasted too much of your life already to give him another emotional minute !

my mother was extremely narcissistic as well. on her deathbed, she said she "wished i'd spent more time with my children." um, a little late.

as a consequence of what is familiar, i've been drawn most of my life to those with NPD. luckily, not so much anymore. it really is a tough one to move away from...and they reel you back in over and over again...it's amazing! it's almost like you need a psychic surgeon to remove the invisible cords that bind...ugh.

i am getting a clearer & clearer view of the complexities of this every day. the things you all have said make complete sense. today he sent an email saying "I've been trying to hint at it, but a young lady is strongly pulling at my heartstrings". i guess that's supposed to be the jealousy card, but i've folded & left the table.

i wish i knew who she is so i could warn her about that idiot's eventual polite plundering, but i don't care & it's not my problem.

the narcissist test i took tells me i am a submissive borderline narcissist myself. go figure. you all did tell me i was looking for attention. it also tells me why i was attracted to those kinds of people ~ heh! they're never boring! i burn out most of the people around me, so i kept to myself.. until he came along.

so as not to perpetuate the narcissism, i will stop about that now.. one of my counselors told me to read a book called Children of the Self-Absorbed & that certainly was my mother ~ i ached for a "real" mother ~ some of you may find value in that book.

thanks again.

~ a

Thanks for the book referral Azula....it sounds very good...I appreciate that.

Like Kat and Kelly (two of my favourite posters at ageless, for their intelligence and kindness), my mother is also a narcissist (somatic), and I experience a great deal of chemistry with narcissists.

When I first started learning about narcissism and related disorders, I took a look around and I noticed my whole life was full of them...my boss, my best friend (a somatic N), my bf. My heart broke because I suspected that i could never experience a strong romantic bond with a normal guy....I worried a lot that I had been hard-wired to only fall in love with narcissistic guys.

Luckily I later l