Where are we now?

hi. this is my first post. its going to be difficult to make this long story short so im going to give you the broad strokes. im 39 she is 24. we've been together for 1.5 years. during this time we struggled with some communications problems in the way we'd initially discuss issues. but we'd work it out in the end and come to common ground, always learning for better ways to communicate. i went through a stage of not being sure about the relationship but i never expressed this to her. i just worked it out for myself and when i realized she was the one, i opened up as completely as i could at that time. we'd pretty much worked out our communication issues too.

she went dancing with her friend, which was common, but this time she picked up a guy. she gave him her number. she came straight to my place to tell me. this was about 2.5 months ago. i told her it wasnt a problem, just a dance that got out of control, and not to worry; blow him off. she agreed and thanked me. the next 4 days she was turmoil over this. one minute she wanted to be with him the next she felt stupid and realized she loved me and was hurting me. finally, a week later she said "we need to take a break". i took this as the end and went into a deep grief unlike i have ever felt before.

she had to answers. other than to say there was something going on with her and she needed to figure it out and she needed to not be in a relationship with me to do it. i tried my damnedest to break with her. i went through all the feelings of grief for two weeks. i cried so much. i was a wreck of a human being. normally i can cut this fairly quickly. im good at it from unfortunately having much practise. :) but this time every episode of grief, i'd come out the other end, when the dust settles, and feel the same amount of love for her as before. i didnt know what to do. then after two weeks of trying, i realized this a bond i can not cut. we are in love, true love and even soulmates and im trying to cut that bond. the only thing to do, i felt, was to see her and try and be in each others lives.

we never stopped loving each other. we were in email contact through this and she would always tell me how much she loved me and how sorry she was.

she wrote me a letter and expressed how she had realized that she had a chunk of her 20's taken away because when she was 17 she decided to only date older men. the youngest +10yrs and the oldest +24yrs. i thinks he had a few +4/5yr dates but nothing significant. anyway, she espressed in the letter how all that time from 17 on she was stressed out and high strung and could barely keep it together. when she met the guy in the bar she instantly recognized there was a problem with her: he's 25, just a kid, from a small town like her, out having fun with little cares in the world. her life is not like that - she has always pushed herself professionally, has a high paying high stress job, and is in generally very impatient.

so after the Two Weeks of My Hell, i called her and went to her place. we cried and talked. but then i saw a condom in her garbage and lost it. she consoled me and didnt say anything. what could she say. i got very angry but i withheld it because this wasnt the time to be angry. for me, it was proof that we were over. she had been sleeping with the club guy.

a week later she dumped him. she said his personality took a 180 but i think she just wanted out. she said she slept with him because she wanted to be with someone her own age to see what that was like (it was fun apparently) and that she needed someone to comfort her in her grief. this is pretty typical stuff for someone who doesnt have a lot of expience in life. so fine. it still hurt.

a little later she expressed that now that time had passed, a few weeks, she had more clarity. that she was in fact still in love with me and wanted to open a dialogue about getting back together. my trust for her was utterly shattered but i was open to this. so we talked and decided there was a chance. that our love for each other was strong and true and that we needed to work through things. we didnt so much get back together at this point, we were just talking, exploring.

she had been working things out for herself, looking at who she was and why she was so stressed all the time. and what was going on with all that. she had some answers but not many. a week later we talked and she shared some of her insights with me. i suggested i might know what might be going on. im a bit of an arm-chair psychoalalyst and so i know about cognitive models, pathological psychological issues such as personality disorders, neurosies, etc. i use this stuff in my own life to be a better a person - to give me some structure to the way i am so i can make changes. i sheepishly suggested that she may have narcissitic tendencies. she asked what that was and i read her an exellent description with a lot of examples and detail. she was stunned and could identify with this. she wanted to know more.

after a few days she told me she had been reading a lot about narcissism and inner child issues and that she realized now that she had a much larger problem than she thought. but now she at least had some insight to help her. from this exploration she opened up a can of worms: that all this time she had stifled the fact that she had been chronically physically and emotionally abused as a child. and now she had to face this and deal with it.

at this point she pulled back from her 'lets work it out' and said that she still loved me, wanted to be with me while she worked this out and even wanted to be exclusive so that we werent off potentially compomising our future together but that we still needed to be distant so she could have the time and space to work it out.

over the last couple weeks, i've opened up issues with her about our relationship and how i feel and she says she cant talk about it. thats she sorry but she just cant. we arent having sex. i asked her about that. she said she cant talk about it. she thanked me for respecting her boundaries. i feel like i am in some kind of limbo... i dont really know whats going on with her and i cant ask. or, i can ask but i dont get answers. i am trying to respect the space she needs, but i have needs to. i thought we were going to try and work it out. now we are just in some kind of stopped mode. i assume she is working her stuff out. i assume.

she still tells me she loves me when we talk, ending our conversations with 'i love you'. and she expressed how hard this must be for me just having to hang on while i wait for her to be able to discuss things. she apologizes. when i get sad or upset, she wants to talk to me. she will put aside her angst and try and help me through it. i can tell you how much that makes me respect and love her more.

but im the kind of person that doesnt like instability and not knowing. i like to discuss and analyze and work things through. so its really really hard for me to do this. and i dont know if the result is getting back together again or if this is some kind of panacea for her in the meantime. the last time i asked, i got this reply:

I am still the same as the last time when we discussed this. I still don't have any definitive answers and I am still in "single mode". As in not dating anyone else, but spending time alone and not thinking too much about all the relationship stuff we have to work out. I need to work on myself right now. But I think there is potential for us and spending the time working on things between us, no matter what the outcome, is worthwhile.

I enjoy spending time with you bunny.

so now i am not happy. i am trying to find a way to be in this and be happy. the only other option is to just end it. but what a waste that would be. im just not sure what to do.

The 1.5 year mark is a very interesting point in a relationship. Its been scientifically proven that at around this time the chemical in your brain, the one that makes you feel that you are "in love," has now after several half lives disappeared from the brain. This, of course, is part of the mating process as nature is calling for her to find a new mate for the gene pool etc. I know this might sound a little crazy, but I think this happens to a lot of young people in the 18-30 range. Relationships last about two years until the people no longer feel "in love" and break up. This is pretty evident by the fact that she thought she needed to sleep with someone else. The truth is that all relationships will encounter the problem of one partner being attracted to someone outside the relationship at some point. Now, I think she does care for you a lot. But, she is not experienced enough to see what she has just done probably has very little to do with these psychological self-diagnosis and more to do with boredom, frustration, hormones, and mother nature. In order to overcome these problems in a relationship a deepening of connection must occur between both parties. You must get to know each other and be deepy honest with each other in a way that has never been before otherwise you will not create the kind of bond necessary to overcome and understand what happened. I am sure too that she has bitten off more than she can chew for her age and feels quite overwhelmed. This, too, is very common. Ultimately, she will decide if she needs to be alone to get over her curent issues, but I'm not really sure if being alone is really going to help your relationship. She is saying that she needs to work on her and she needs to be alone to do that. Not until this century did anyone ever have the luxury of doing that! Alone is such a post-modern thing, but obviously that's an aside. I guess I am just saying that I get the feeling that what was really just a simple case of one human feeling trapped in a relationship and wanting to sleep with someone her age has perhaps been melodramatized into some search for inner self. I mean, its true that that is all very useful and everyone must do that, but if she is really committed to a relationship with you, and you are committed to her, she can have space within the relationship to explore all those things with you there to support her. Maybe you are both ready for the next phase....

my 2cent

peace

thanks for your post that was really insightful and perhaps directly relevant. of course we'll not know if this biological reaction was involved in the feelings and actions of my sweetie. your point about needing to build a deeper bond in order to move ahead is well taken and is exactly how i feel about us. but she is insistent on maintaining distance between us. these days i only see her on the weekend and this weekend she has mentioned she wants more 'alone' time because she didnt get it over the week. she feels she needs to work out her issues before she can address our issues and so talking about us and working through some of our issues is irritating to her. she will open up to some degree but quickly gets overwhelmed. i can see it in her face - it drains her.

i know that pressuring her will make her go away. this almost happened recently. im trying to maintain a balance between contact and no contact and maintaining a relationship at the same time. but with sporadic emails through the week, the occassional phone call and seeing one day on the weekend, and no sex, its quite difficult to foster this bond building you mention.

there is the possibility that she doesnt want the relationship. however, after her crisis and breaking up with me, a month later she said she wanted to be in a relationship and talk but also have the space to work through her stuff. last night she called and left a message that she's thinking about me and loves me. is she fooling herself? or does she honestly feel this way? we talked a bit about this last weekend and i explored, as much as i could, how she feels. she said she loves me, that she feels she is in a relationship with me, that she would rather spend time with me than another guy (meaning her feelings of exclusivity towards me are genuine).

so im trying to just be patient and respect the space she needs. you can imagine this is very difficult and i often wonder if i should just walk away from this. but i love her, she loves me and despite the limitations right now, she really shows this to me too.

just so you know, im not all torn up about this. i dont feel out of control. it doesnt feel like an addicitive type of thing. i just dont want to throw away something that i feel was and could be really amazing for the both of us. she feels the same way.

so we are stuck. we need oil. whats the oil?

She probably honestly loves you, but love comes in many forms. You probably give her the stability she needs and the love/attention she needs but she cannot reciprocate? She is 24 and has alot of mental/emotional growth coming in the future. Acutally that is probably true throughout life but more prominant in the teens and 20''s.

When I read your story it sounds to me like she is holding on to you because she doesnt want to be alone. She saught(sp?) out the attention of another because it felt good.

Give her the space she wants. Let her know that you support her and if you really care about her let her contact you if that is what she wants. When you really care about someone, and I don't mean in love, I mean care for someone more than yourself, then you will know that it is love and not infactuation.

You must decide what is right for you. If you cannot stand by while she is finding herself and she will not let you help her then you must decide to stay or go. Just don't forget yourself either.

The saying is true if you love something let it go...if it comes back it is yours...if it doesn't it never was......

-nibbles

Hi. I think you are right and I felt that awhile ago. I know she has a lot to work out. and I am trying to be supportive. well, in fact i am. i give her only a very small amount of grief and when i do its in the form of questions, just trying to understand where she is at and where i am with respect to her. but i got most everything answered so in the last week or two i've simply been there to talk, or to see her. i dont bring up relationship type issues anymore.

as you say i have to take care of myself too. and so i am. i am making sure i dont feel like i am waiting around for her or in limbo. its a very fine balancing act to do this. maybe she feels the relationship is ongoing for her because she needs my stability as you say. then again, maybe its something else. i dont know and im not going to ask because i dont think she knows. some of the things i have asked her for which she has answered have changed. that makes sense considering the things about herself she is trying to work out.

but its really tough to manage this. when once we had a really great close loving sharing intimate relationship and now 2 months later we are in some kind of pseudo-relationship. trust me i've tried the 'walk away' thing and it doesnt work - it makes us both feel very sad. so we are trying this out.

i guess because she didnt get a lot of introspective time this week, having booked too much in like her old ways, she now wants to limit the time we spend on the weekend. although thats not a huge deal, things like this make me worry. but i guess really i have no control over this. or very little. its too bad that huge chunks of my life now centre around a young woman who is in crisis and having a hard time coping. but, i am trying to find that balance where no matter what it doesnt bother me to a degree in which i stop functioning.

love takes work. and thats life.

assuming you've read my story and where she and i are at right now, i am curious about your feedback on this topic as it pertains to us. i asked her, a few weeks ago, about seeing other people. she felt this went against out "working it out" plan where we'd be in a relationship but we'd be more distant so that she could have the time to work out her issues of self image and self identity. as well she needs to work out how to cope with stress better. she has expressed the need to have lots of alone time and time away from relationship issues and the relationship itself. she has expressed that she doesnt think about our relationship much - she cant right now because she is trying to heal herself. she expresses that she loves me, that i mean a great deal to her and that she cares about me, even beyond her own needs and that she feels like she is in a relationship with me and that she would rather spend time with me than some other new guy. but we remain quite distant now which is really hard for me to cope with. but i know i need to give her the space she needs right now. we basically see each other one day/night a week (usually on the weekend), we exchange a few emails through the day, and have a telephone conversation every other day or so. sometimes she calls just to tell me she's thinking about me and loves me.

one poster, nibbles, suggested that she's keeping me around, in whole or in part, so as not to be alone. that might be the case. its not possible to tell right now. so i try and not try and figure out which it is. but i have to look out for my own well being too.

i get the sense from her that her exclusivity is more to do with her own needs right now and not so much about us "working it out". she has said that even if we werent together, she'd not be actively looking - she needs to focus on her. this is different than my reasons to be exclusive which are primarily to focus on us and us working it out and not being distracted in the meantime. although we have the same action, our intent is different. the only thing that brings the two together is that by her working out her issues, she can then, presumably, come back to the relationship able to work on it.

basically, i feel, the relationship is stalled. that 'deeper bond' that was suggested is not really being actively built. it is sort of passively developing but its not a collaborative pursuit right now between us.

we arent having sex. we have just started getting back to sleeping in the same bed with each other, just one night on the weekend. she initiated going back to this last weekend (which surprised me) and i this weekend. her reply was "you can stay over but in the morning i have to get to my own thing. you can sleep in here if you want but i have to get onto my stuff." i felt a little dejected. but i understand at the same time too.

should we bother being exclusive?

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth....I think that from her perspective, if she is really working through stuff then yeah, she needs to not get involved with anyone else - that would just complicate her issues. From your perspective, well, she's put you on hold, so you have no reason to not date others (except for your own feelings). I don't think you should wait for her, unless that's what YOU want. Otherwise, you're likely to feel resentment eventually.

I also don't really understand the needing to be alone....but I'm sensitive to this sort of thing because my ex and I often broke up because he "needed to figure things out on his own". To me, there's no reason why you can't work through things while in a relationship....but that's just me.

everyone for you kind words and advice. i am going to think about what you have said and i will post my thoughts later. i just wanted to say thank you.

i guess because she didnt get a lot of introspective time this week, having booked too much in like her old ways, she now wants to limit the time we spend on the weekend. although thats not a huge deal, things like this make me worry. but i guess really i have no control over this. or very little. its too bad that huge chunks of my life now centre around a young woman who is in crisis and having a hard time coping. but, i am trying to find that balance where no matter what it doesnt bother me to a degree in which i stop functioning.

love takes work. and thats life.

I guess I'd have to suggest that if she's "too busy" to deal with her "issues" she doesn't have much of a crisis. "Sorry, Dear, I didn't get enough time to deal with them, so you'll have to stay away this weekend." I'm willing to grant that she may think she does have problems. I actually knew someone who was "depressed" but would stop her therapy during the summer because she was too busy. Hmmmm

Read what you wrote... "huge chunks of your life center around..." I wonder if you'd consider rewording that: "Huge chunks of your life center around this young woman's issues" might be more accurate.

Small wonder you are trying to find "that balance." There isn't any. What troubles me most about this entire story is the total lack of sharing in the relationship. Pick any aspect of your "relationship" - the amount of time you spend together, the depth of communication, the amount of sex...

Unless she is in some form of deep therapy, there is no reason for you to accomodate her every wish and whim. There is no magic switch that she is going to locate that will put her back to where she/the relationship was. One of the larger interesting questions is what exactly happened that created these huge issues and made such a big change in your relationship?

I get very confused when I go from you finding a condom in her trash to her needing all this "alone" time to you both wondering whether or not you should be exclusive...

Your "armchair" knowledge of psychology may be working against you. You're putting a lot of energy into explaining and rationalizing her behavior and, in the process, you are allowing her and her "issues" to totally control the relationship.

I'm not suggesting you should move on... but I do think there are several things you might consider:

1. Getting some of your needs equalized with hers. Unless she's non-functional because of these "issues," there is no reason you should not be spending more time together.

2. Ask her what the plan is... she may not have to share the depth of these issues with you, but exactly how is she addressing them... will she be starting therapy?

3. What, exactly, are you getting out of this relationship and how much do you really like it?

4. It might be time for you to stop finding excuses for her behaviors and start wondering when - or IF - they are going to change.

Dealing with self and a relationship can be a challenge, but one thing that makes it easier is that you should be able to share the difficulty with your partner.

Hmmm... there's that word again: SHARE.