To commit or not to commit

Hey Ya'll,

I have been out of town for a while on some business ventures.... now I'm back and am finding myself back in the lonely hole again. I have a lot of incredible friends, and they make every second of life fun, so why do I get lonely? It's been almost 5 years since any relationship has lasted with me for over 3 months. I don't want to keep making the same mistakes over and over again, so I am trying to figure out what it is that I am doing.... then do something different.
It seems like there are just way too many people afraid of commitment out there. I start to get to know someone and then, bam.... the phone calls die off and they slowly fade away. It helps so much to come here and see relationships that are lasting through age differences and all sorts of hurdles. I want to believe that there is someone out there for me, but wow. It's awfully hard to see through the smokescreens. I've tried everything from looking really hard to pretending not to look, to focussing on life itself so that the whole thing just doesn't matter. Is it just me.... or has the world gone mad? So many lonely people, yet not many want to confront anything long term. I recently read Ekhart Tolle's "The Power of Now". Through all of lifes searches, all we really need to focus on is the moment. So why should there be such a fear of commitment? Commitment involves the future and no one knows the future, so how can two people tell each other they are going to be together for the rest of thier lives?? I don't think that there are many people out there who would want someone to stick around if it is causing them pain and anguish. This wouldn't be love anyway....it is fear of being alone. So I am at some sort of crossroads. I don't quite understand the need for commitment, yet I yearn for someone to be there for me longer than a week.

I am just curious to hear any comments on the matter.
Thanks!!

Colleen - - -

Several thoughts here, not necessarily in order of importance :)

If you are having this problem repeatedly, then I would think you continue to choose the same kind of man. We noticed this a lot when I worked for divorce attorneys and would be getting the second and third divorce for our female clients. They were always marrying the same kind of man. Broaden your horizons and look at different types of guys. Some of them are NEVER going to commit and some are truly looking for a lasting, fulfilling relationship.

I have found that if you are looking, it shows. And it may also appear to be desperation. Don't look. And don't pretend not to look! Just don't look. I certainly wasn't looking and Joe just fell in my lap! And what a find he is too. LOL

And you have to define commitment too. For every person that word does mean something different. For some women commitment means marriage, for some it just means an exclusive relationship and for others it may mean something entirely different.

Personal comment here: I don't know how old you are, but personally, when a woman reaches my age, I really don't know why she would want to get married.

Back to earth: I do think a woman needs to know herself, who she is, what she is about and where she is going with her life. And her sole goal should not be to find a life partner. Many women have fulfilling lives without a man. If you know yourself and you exude that, then you come across as independent, confident and secure. Most men find that very appealing and attractive and they will gravitate to you because of it. And don't jump on the first one who does . . . take it slow and see where it goes.

Good Luck!

brakson...(love ur name!!!)
who the heck knows, ya know!!! lol :D (kidding)
i have thought some of the same things and, well, one day recently i woke up and kinda...like 90%...said...i just don't care anymore. not in a negative way...but in an "its ok way."
in my case, i've been alone most of my life and, well, if it keeps on like this i have: God, my daughter, gymnastics’, acting, yoga, reading, writing...the list goes on.
you know, i have thought that when one of us is blessed with an exciting, long relationship, then we are all blessed through them.
we all have blessings...we each have gifts...if mine is not to be a relationship, then i will rejoice for those who have one and embrace my calling and purpose.
we are born alone and we die alone...therefore, our relationship with ourselves is the most important.
i know it hurts, but that is were we accrue our wisdom...that is when we really start to see life.
perhaps i've already had my great relationships...instead of wanting more, maybe i ought to look back and smile upon the ones i have had...be grateful for them.
enough of my ramble!! i do hope you find true love.

This is exactly what Gen and I have been talking about for a few months! First off Colleen, that 3 month rule has happened more times than I can count! :rolleyes: But now, I could care less. I agree with what both Peachy and Skatergirl have said whole heartedly...and this is why I (and Gen) am/are just concentrating on US and the person we are and want to improve. Sometimes in the past I have felt desperate and lonely for someone to share my life with and to help me (esp. after going through 3 hurricanes and having to clean up my home by myself); I also think this "desperateness" did show (either directly or indirectly) as Peachy stated. But now I am at a kind of peace with myself as Skater mentioned and just feel blessed with the direction my life is going and the choices I am making. Yes, I miss a man's touch, but I know now that I will not settle for just any man, and if it is not meant to be I really have no control over it as I cannot MAKE someone want me forever. It is funny too, in a way, as another of my screen names is Alice Hindman from my fav. novel Winesgurg, Ohio. All the characters have a "grotesque" that psychologically/emotionally handicaps them and hers is loyalty as she remains loyal to a man who dumped her as she keeps thinking he will return. One night she decides to have an "adventure" so she runs naked through the streets thinking she will attack the first man she sees. Well, the first man is a very old one who is half deaf and blind and she then realizes her folly and crawls back home in the rain. NOW even though I have NOT done this :D I do sometimes wonder about the last part of the chapter which reads:"What is the matter with me? I will do something dreadful if I am not careful," she thought, and turning her face to the wall, began trying to force herself to face bravely the fact that many people must live and die alone, even in Winesburg."

But with all that said, I do think America is changing in a way and how we interact with people as we are becoming even MORE private....as I see that we are not needing or even wanting people (like even over for coffee) as much as we use to, and to me that is sad. I mean we could possibly NEVER have any human contact again and just continue on with our lives: we can work from home; order everything from clothes, to food to liquor from any place in the world online and have it delivered; we can pump our own gas and pay with a credit card; if we do go to a store, can scan our items ourself; can bank online; see the world via cable; see sports and movies via cable, and even have only "cyber friends and lovers"! I think some people are LOSING HOW to deal with people and HOW to have relationships. Sigh.... I may be rambling abit here, but I hope you can understand what I am rambling about!

Wow is right! Thank you, ladies, for your incredible insight! While I was away on business, I stayed in a place with no tv or internet. I had to go shopping for food...(oooo). My people interaction ratio went from next to nothing to a way above average small town abundance! I found myself dropping by the businesses I had to deal with, instead of using my phone, and even spent time with some other artists, just to talk, see what they were working on and watch the storms pop up over the Rocky mountains. The time I spent away from this east coast rush hour convenience shop mentality was absolutely priceless! Upon my return back home, I found some horrible news waiting for me... a friend of mine and fellow artist who was only 27 had died of a brain aneurism. The past few days have been really hard to deal with to say the least. I hadn't spoken to her for months before, and found myself wishing that I would have just called her. She was a beautiful person, and always made time for her friends.
There certainly is some weird phenomonon happening in the world today. We have conveniently made ourselves inaccessable to outside influence for the sake of our own comfort. What I found outside my comfort zone, was that every stranger has something beautiful to share, and every moment of thier time that they take to share it is such a treasure. Of coarse it isn't all fun to listen to, hence the power of excusing oneself to skate off to some other adventure..... but returning home, and finding one step taken too late, has me thinking twice about a lot of things. I have been enjoying every little second with my daughter, and I am really grateful for all the encounters I have. You are all so right. It's not in missing out on anything....the happiness lies in enjoying everyone you have and every moment you have to spend with them. Thank you!!!

Colleen - - -

I am so sorry for the loss of your friend. Makes you really realize how fragil our lives are.

You are so right in that you must enjoy each and every moment! After all, this moment, right now, is all we can really be sure that we have and we shouldn't waste it.

Your story about being out of town reminded me of my hair stylist. She had gotten a divorce and decided that she needed some R&R by herself to just relax. So she booked a week at a spa resort in Phoenix to just relax and sun and reflect. While she was there a guy started up a conversation with her and they had dinner several times and really hit it off. After she came home, he flew over here to see her, liked it here and moved here. That was 6 years ago. They got married and now have two beautiful children and are happy as clams.

So you never know, wherever you go, who you might meet! :)

Hey Peachy, I think that was excellent advice. I also feel that one's worldview regarding love and its abundance can be a reflection on the type of partner a person pursues.

I've heard bitter, bitter comments from guys I've known about the state of women....and yet they only chase self-obsessed `beautiful women' whilst having nothing really common in with such a person, or any looks or assets of their own.

Same with women. I think nice, gentle guys are everywhere. Possibly because so many women overlook them in favour of macho types:)

Having been single quite a few times now, I don't *really* think it matters if you're looking or not looking, or if you feel needy or independent. I think what really counts is being friendly, open, and authentic.

I have read your post but I have not read the others, yet, they seem tooooo long for me at this time of the day.

Anyway, the problem is not with you directly, or women for that matter, it has also a lot to do a lot with men as well. They have to set an example when it comes to a relationship.

And i would not agree 100% with what Peachy say. When you look, you find. You only get more disappointed when you are not finding what you seek, at least that is my experience.

Anywho, I'd love to post more but have to go to bed...

Brackson, timely thread. I was having a relevant conversation with a friend of mine last night.

I’ve gone from

- wanting commitment in my early 20s because ‘we’re supposed to want that’, to
- being very independent and worried that I’d be labeled as a ‘typical woman’ for wanting commitment that I tried to tell myself that it didn’t matter, to
- being totally okay with the fact that, yes, I would like to meet someone to spend the rest of my life with.

Brackson, you said: “Commitment involves the future and no one knows the future, so how can two people tell each other they are going to be together for the rest of thier lives?? I don't think that there are many people out there who would want someone to stick around if it is causing them pain and anguish. This wouldn't be love anyway....it is fear of being alone. So I am at some sort of crossroads. I don't quite understand the need for commitment, yet I yearn for someone to be there for me longer than a week.”

As far as ‘pain and anguish’, I think that, as Peachy said about commitment, this might be different for everyone. Some people might define figuring out the compromises of a long-term commitment as pain and anguish. As my friend and I were discussing last night, to us, this is normal. He’s 40 and newly wed to his 28 year old wife and even though they’ve known each other for a few years, they’re now maneuvering the hurdles of compromise found in every day life. And yet, this level of ‘pain and anguish’ causes many people to doubt their entire relationship/commitment, and run. People just don't seem to want to work on their relationships. They seem to expect every little thing to just 'happen' smoothly, effortlessly.

I believe that there is also a balance between ‘looking’ and ‘looking desperate’. Perhaps ‘looking’ isn’t exactly looking at all but rather being clear with yourself what it is that you’re looking for, and not pursuing things with someone who isn’t looking for the same thing. And perhaps it includes being clear with men what it is you’re looking for without pushing or pursuing this with those that aren’t on the same page. I agree with Peachy that if men perceive a woman as desperate or ‘actively looking’, it scares most of them off – even those that are actively looking themselves! I think that men are often more romantic than women in this regard. Many of them just want to be surprised and whacked over the head by ‘the one’. Me, I tend not to really look at all, and maybe that's something that I need to re-consider.

Peachy, you said: “I do think a woman needs to know herself, who she is, what she is about and where she is going with her life. And her sole goal should not be to find a life partner. Many women have fulfilling lives without a man. If you know yourself and you exude that, then you come across as independent, confident and secure. Most men find that very appealing and attractive and they will gravitate to you because of it.”

My friend had a few ****tails last night and for some reason decided to analyze why, at 40, I’m not married. Certainly not a topic that I brought up and one that I’m not all that concerned about at this point. And he stated the exact same reasons above in regard to why I’m not. I’m educated, intelligent, confident, attractive, outgoing, and all of these things come across, and – in his opinion – they scare the heck out of a lot of men. Even those that are educated and intelligent themselves. I’m still contemplating my friend’s tequila-driven “analysis” – it’s one that I’ve heard before. I don’t completely disagree with it but if it is somewhat accurate, what’s a girl to do? I also think that this could be a bit of a cop-out because there ARE men out there like Peachy is describing, the one’s that find all of this attractive and not intimidating. The cop-out being, are we not seeking out men who are truly our equals?

Is it a timing thing? Fate? I don’t know. I do tend to agree that men and women never know when/where they’re going to meet the one for them. Both men and women just have to live their lives in a personally fulfilling way. But if one is truly interested in meeting someone for commitment, your eyes have to be open to seeing that someone, and also filtering out those that aren’t looking for the same thing. (Too bad our filters glitch sometimes, eh?)

As Skater was discussing, I've had great loves in my life. Lucky me. Truly. Some people seem to never experience deep love or being deeply loved. And as Skater was saying, maybe this is what was meant to be, as part of my 'calling' or destiny.

Again, while I would like to meet someone with whom to spend the rest of my life, I’m not worried about it most of the time. God and the Universe (Higher Power, the Goddess, whatever it might be to each individual) are guiding my life and it is unfolding in the way it is supposed to – even if I often (usually!) don’t understand the ‘why’.

Hey Peachy, I think that was excellent advice. I also feel that one's worldview regarding love and its abundance can be a reflection on the type of partner a person pursues.

I've heard bitter, bitter comments from guys I've known about the state of women....and yet they only chase self-obsessed `beautiful women' whilst having nothing really common in with such a person, or any looks or assets of their own.

Same with women. I think nice, gentle guys are everywhere. Possibly because so many women overlook them in favour of macho types:)

Having been single quite a few times now, I don't *really* think it matters if you're looking or not looking, or if you feel needy or independent. I think what really counts is being friendly, open, and authentic.


Bella, I too have heard men bemoan how awful women treat them and complain about their 'last girlfriend' being high-maintenance or self absorbed or...? And yet, they continue to pursue women who look good on the outside but that have nothing going on in their lives and nothing going on inside themselves.

Certainly, as evidenced by the many attractive, intelligent, sensitive women on this site, being beautiful on the outside in no way means being empty on the inside. Yet, some men consistently choose these women and then wonder why there is no depth, no conversation, just the demand of more, more, more.

As far as choosing 'nice, gentle guys' over 'macho types', I don't think that either has a corner on the commitment market. I've dated both. One of my sisters is married to a total macho guy, and he's a great husband and father to their 2 children. In fact, I see the macho in him as being one of the reasons that he IS such a great husband and father. It's part of the reason that he feels the need to excel at these things.

Perhaps ‘looking’ isn’t exactly looking at all but rather being clear with yourself what it is that you’re looking for, and not pursuing things with someone who isn’t looking for the same thing.

thank you.

My friend had a few ****tails last night and for some reason decided to analyze why, at 40, I’m not married. Certainly not a topic that I brought up and one that I’m not all that concerned about at this point. And he stated the exact same reasons above in regard to why I’m not. I’m educated, intelligent, confident, attractive, outgoing, and all of these things come across, and – in his opinion – they scare the heck out of a lot of men. Even those that are educated and intelligent themselves. I’m still contemplating my friend’s tequila-driven “analysis” – it’s one that I’ve heard before. I don’t completely disagree with it but if it is somewhat accurate, what’s a girl to do? I also think that this could be a bit of a cop-out because there ARE men out there like Peachy is describing, the one’s that find all of this attractive and not intimidating. The cop-out being, are we not seeking out men who are truly our equals?
Science Goddess, there are men out there who want to marry intelligent, confident women. I find it difficult to understand why you have trouble attracting men like this. One thing to remember, though, is that not every guy feels confident approaching women like you for fear of rejection. Perhaps you should take the initiative and seek out men that can appreciate you instead of waiting for them. It is the 21st century, and I don't think it's out of the ordinary for a woman to approach a man she's attracted to and ask him out on a date. You could be waiting forever for the right man to find you, so maybe you should be trying to find him. Just a suggestion. ;)

Science Goddess, there are men out there who appreciate intelligent, confident women. I find it difficult to understand why you have trouble attracting men like this. One thing to remember, though, is that not every guy feels confident approaching women like you for fear of rejection. Perhaps you should take the initiative and seek out men that can appreciate you instead of waiting for them. It is the 21st century, and I don't think it's out of the ordinary for a woman to approach a man she's attracted to and ask him out on a date. You could be waiting forever for the right man to find you, so maybe you should be trying to find him. Just a suggestion. ;)


I know you're right, Mark, that there ARE men who appreciate intelligent, confident women. I have dated a few, long-term, over the years. But my friend's assessment of the intimidation factor - which you, yourself, agreed with - is far from being the first time that I (and my girlfriends) have heard this from a man. Sorry, but if a man is intimidated by me, it's probably not going to work out anyway.

As for me, I'm not waiting around for anyone. I'm living my life and enjoying it. And if I see a guy that I want to talk to, I will certainly strike up a conversation.

I agree that it is not out of the ordinary for women to ask a man on a date, although even if I make the first 'move', I prefer that a man ask me out on an actual date. If I meet someone that seems interested but unsure about asking, I will suggest meeting again for a ****tail or meeting up at an event. Still, if a guy is too shy to be assertive to a some degree, it just doesn't work for me.

I'm a little old-fashioned when it comes to being pursued in the initial stages, and I'm okay with that. I like the old-fashioned boy-girl thing in regard to dating. I'm not all that interested in 'pursuing' a man. And if a man is not that interested in pursuing me, then it's not a good fit. EDIT: And perhaps the fact that some YM are more interested in being pursued than pursuing may shift the age range of the men I date back up toward my own age. It often seems to be a generational thing, this expectation by men that women should pursue them.

Still, as far as what you said about 'seeking out men who can appreciate me', you have a point there. In this spirit, I am looking forward to spring when the breadth of outdoor recreation activities and special events here widens considerably. Attending events and participating in activities in which I am interested means meeting new friends and possible 'dates' that are interested in the same things.

Originally Posted by Science Goddess
Perhaps ‘looking’ isn’t exactly looking at all but rather being clear with yourself what it is that you’re looking for, and not pursuing things with someone who isn’t looking for the same thing.

thank you.


Smoochies, SkaterGirl!

Knowing, in general, what we're looking for helps guide us in making our choices, in dating, in business, in everything. The key, and often the difficult part, is having an idea of what we're looking for that is specific enough to help develop a filter but not so detailed that nothing/no one gets through the sieve!

As far as choosing 'nice, gentle guys' over 'macho types', I don't think that either has a corner on the commitment market. I've dated both.

Giggle...I can agree with that, but I personally equate the ability to behave honorably and offer true committment to a woman with being ` a nice guy'....and also `aggression and being emotionally shut down' with being macho.

Hey but I'm an Aussie...our version of `the macho male' isn't exactly Arnie....more like cro-magnum man with an attitude and a beer-gut, hehe:)

As far as choosing 'nice, gentle guys' over 'macho types', I don't think that either has a corner on the commitment market. I've dated both.

Giggle...I can agree with that, but I personally equate the ability to behave honorably and offer true committment to a woman with being ` a nice guy'....and also `aggression and being emotionally shut down' with being macho.

Hey but I'm an Aussie...our version of `the macho male' isn't exactly Arnie....more like cro-magnum man with an attitude and a beer-gut, hehe:)

LOL. I knew what you meant, that you were sort of generalizing about a 'type'. Plenty of cro-magnum men here, too. :)

I think that it's tough, to find a balance between these two categories, and probably tough for guys to figure out where to land between these two categories. Fortunately, there is no 'right' answer because everyone is looking for something just a little different.

Bleh, Arnie *barf*. Separate issue...

Going back to the big picture and without overdramatazing this topic, do you want to commit?

As long as there is no signs of "Arnie-ism" ;) lol.... commitment isn't necessarily a bad word to me. As life journeys on and every day brings on a new plethora of experiences, it still leaves me to wonder whether the lifetime marriage commitment is for me. I won't know that till I get there, I suppose. I have had some wonderful long term relationships, had the hopes that all girls seem to dream about. The Cinderella dreams of being taken off to some exoctic land of utopia. However, now I realize that the utopia starts with the moment I am in, and can never rely on outside influences, whether it is a husband, kids, a really great dog, or any of the other many influences and relationships I have throughout life. There are so many great points here... Science Goddess, I love your outlook on life! I truly agree that one must have a very open horizen. In other words, have a loose direction. I am such a huge fan of serendipitous actions. When we have a set plan that is too narrow for anything else to come in, there can be no room left for these random acts of sheer miraculous strength to come in and make our lives even better than we could have dreamt up ourselves.
I can think of countless stories in my own life and in others where, left to God and the universe.... there is simply no limit to the possibilities in life. On my trip that I just got back from, I delivered a sculpture called "the Awakening". It was originally supposed to be a fountain of rocks with maybe a fairy on it. Apparently, the universe had another set of plans, and slowly as the work came to life, a lifesize figure of a woman emerged from the rocks and thousands of figures swirling in and out of the rocks themselves. It all started when I was lead to read Plato's Republic.... "the Alleghory of the Cave". The whole story of how this awakening of the soul sculpture happend right along side an awakening of my own.... with no set plans to do so. Just an open mind, and an open heart. It had everything to do with letting go of the egoic mindset, and opening up to possibilities. A choice to live with love and without fear.... the list goes on and on.

So this question of commitment.... I think will always be a question with me. I agree that any amount of pain and anguish can find resolve, and certainly would hope that in the situation of having to choose between having a loving heart or a fearful one, that I would choose love... but some of my best awakening moments in life have been out of some of the biggest blunders.... :D. I just hope that they aren't the same blunders.... over and over again! (thanks for the bit of wisdom there, Peachy.... ) I have faith. If all else fails.... I'll hold onto that faith that life is this wonderous journey, and that I am so lucky to to have another second of it!