45 YO married man and 18 YO Woman

From the title of this post, you can tell I'm in a sticky situation. I'm the OM, married and trying to understand what's happening with this young woman who recently came into my life.

Let me try to explain what's going on, and then I'd love to read what people here have to say because I need as much help as possible to figure this out.

First, let me say that I didn't go looking for an 18 yo to fall in love with. I've been together with my wife for over 20 years now, and there's also an age gap in that relationship--in the opposite direction. She's 11 years older than I am.

I haven't had a lot of relationships in my life, but I did have one early on (we were both 20) that was really magic (till I screwed it up). My wife and I never had that magic, and I've often thought that I stay with her mainly for security and because of inertia. Relationships don't exactly happen easily for me, so I've accepted what I had.

We've built a nice life together. We don't have kids (by choice), but we do have a big piece of land on which we're starting a farm. We built our own house on the land and have lived in it for nearly 3 years now. We're happy in many ways but it's not a completely fulfilling relationship for me.

Now, the younger woman. Let's call her D. She came to stay with us as an intern on our farm and later told me she was attracted to me from the first day. After a week of her living in our house, we'd had lots of time together and found that we are incredibly alike in many ways. One of the major ones for me is that she likes my constant joking. My wife, on the other hand, is really annoyed by it, so I always feel like I have to stifle myself in that regard around her.

At the end of that first week, I started noticing that I had feelings for her. At the beginning of the second week (last Monday & Tuesday), I tried to suppress those feelings and treat her like an intern. Both days, my resistance completely melted away by the end of the day. Last Wednesday we finally acknowledged to each other what was going on and then agonized over what to do about it for the next two days. Also, I can't tell you how many times we said to each other, "This is crazy. There's a 27 year difference in our ages."

I decided that I couldn't carry on a secret relationship with her, so I told my wife what was going on Friday night and we talked all night long. The result was that D had to leave. Before she left, though, I wanted to spend more time with her to help me determine if this is a mirage or if it's real. So we spent 3 hours together, and the bonds have strengthened. (There's been no sex though because it's way too soon for that.)

Saturday night, we took D to the airport, but I can't stop thinking about her. I've called her 3 times. We've emailed each other. I keep looking at pictures of her. This feels very real to me. Neither of us thinks it's a mirage.

My wife and I are going to get into marriage counseling, and we'll see what comes of that. D and I are apart now, so I think the best thing to do is let time tell if pursuing a relationship with her is possible or wise. D and I both feel that it might be best just to cut off all communication, but neither of us can do that, not yet anyway.

Any advice? Should D and I break completely? Should we agree not to communicate for a month? a year? till she's done with college? Should we keep talking? Is this just a symptom of my mid-life crisis that could have happened with any young woman who showed the kind of interest in me that D did?

You're married. End of story. Break it off completely with D. This, in my opinion, has mid-life crisis written all over it.

Keeping in contact with this young woman will make any counseling with your wife null and void.

~Shan

Ho boy.

First of all, this 18 y/o who came into your house with you and your wife and told you she was attracted to you... I won't use the word I would like to use to describe her, I'm sorry... but what a piece of work. Your wife takes her in and this is how she repays her, by hitting on her husband.

You are wondering if what you feel for each other is real or a "mirage"... well, guess what, my friend? It's real -- real lust. Don't kid yourself... that's all it is.

I've actually come to believe something about people who get involved with married people: in some ways, they are actually worse than the married people themselves... they have a whole world of people to choose from, but they choose to take someone who is involved. That's cruel to both the person's wife/husband, and also to the person who is put in the position of having to choose.

If you rearrange your life for this person, you will get burned. Your wife will be hurt. And the 18 y/o will probably leave you to hit on the next thing she finds attractive. Sorry if that's harsh.

Yes, your in a rough situation!

Though you have feelings for D, you two really do not know each other! It's only been 2 weeks right? The age difference is unimportant. The thing bothering me, is that your married.

Your looking elsewhere because something's going on in your marriage. Something is missing. I commend you for telling your wife about D, having D leave, and agreeing to marriage counseling. Please attend these sessions right away.

You alone need to attend counseling as well. Your emotions are all over the place right now and you're probably feeling really depressed.

I say break off all contact with D! This will be hard as hell, but's it's possible. If you should decide to divorce your wife at some point, and do, only then should you contact D. But don't expect her to "wait" for you.

This may sound childish, but write down the pros and cons of your marriage. List the ways you two have grown together and apart over the years. Are you still "in love" with your wife. Do you two still have common interests? Do you two still respect and value one another? What can you both do to make things better? (i.e. work on communication, spend more time together). Do you both still enjoy sex together? Just jot these all down and bring it to your personal counselor.

Remember, you are infacuated with the prospect of D. She's new, young, exciting, etc. Only because you two are attracted to one another and have common interests doesn't mean a relationship will work. D is going through a period of active change right now, as she's in her late teens. During the next 5 years you both will change a lot. Could you both adjust to the changes? Does she wants kids someday? Just think about all this.

Got to run to work! Hope this helps.
Mary Ann

Remember...the wifey gets half & the house!! :eek: :D

I agree with Submart that I do commend you for coming clean with your wife and going to marriage counseling....

No matter how bad the marriage is Unfortunatly cheating is not the answer... I do think you need to figure out what is going on with you and your wife if you don't love her then maybe it's time to move on and divorce but if you decide to stay with your wife then D will have to stay a thing in the past.....

It's only been two weeks... and I do think it's a "lust" not "love" issue.. and the age is unimportant... Obviously your marriage is lacking something even if thats love You both need to figure out this first before your even ready to think of anyone else...

I wish you the best...

Then again, although this probably isn't LOVE, I think it is more than lust. A big part of your attraction to this girl is probably the fact that you can be yourself w/ her and you can't w/ your wife. Also, you 'settled' for your wife; so I think that if you got two weeks alone w/ almost any woman who appreciated you for you would put you in the situation your in now. The fact that she's 18 only makes the package more appealing, exciting, surreal, etc.
In the end this may be a good thing. I'd tell 'D' that you have to put things on hold to handle your marriage and that if you and your wife divorce then you will pursue her (you do want to respect her don't you?). Then deal w/ your marriage. You may find thru counselling that you can fix your issues or you may be able to take a leap of faith and see that you have just settled all this time and that you need more. Either is ok but don't play that married and infatuated w/ someone else game. Take this head on and see where it takes you.

Thanks for the feedback, especially yours, Lillyfairie. After more than 30 years, I think I know what lust is, so I'm glad at least one person here isn't ready to jump to conclusions.

D and I are still talking, but are going to cut off all communication after Saturday. Yes, this is going to be hard as hell, and no, we're not doing it immediately. We've both been coming to the same conclusions semi-independently. It's like buildings taking shape in the fog as you get closer to them. It's obvious now that I have to deal with the marriage first, and consider other possibilities only if and when my wife and I part company.

My wife and I are going to take a deep look at where we stand, and we'll see what happens from there. Your suggestion about making a list of pros and cons, Submart, is something I've done with all of the major decisions I've made in my life in the past couple of decades, so I'll definitely be doing that again here. Thanks.

We've got a lot of issues to deal with, so it'll definitely take time. Maybe we'll work things out and stay together, or maybe this whole thing was a way of getting me to take a step I've thought of many times in the past.

[PinkCat: "well, guess what, my friend? It's real -- real lust." Friend? From where? I don't think I know any PinkCat.]

Remember when you ask for opinions, it is best to avoid taking it personal. You can read all the advice and thoughts and then act on what resonates with you. Remember, you give us a few facts and it is natural to draw conclusions.Do you just want people to say what you want to hear? I think you wanted answers.

Real love takes time to develop. All you really have now is the potential. Some people combined together have better initial potential than others. And before a deep bond forms between people, it is mainly a chemical thing, a high, if you will. It can deepen, or fizzle out. Two weeks is hardly time enough to tell.

I do think it is great you are giving your marriage an evaluation as close to without the influence of D. You are wise to take stock of it on its own merits. If not fulfilling and not much potential to be, then it might be best to end it. Or, this exploration and honesty could be something that will enrich the relationship between you and your wife to the point that you see what you have as special.

Good luck with the counseling.

well i read your post and the replies. the fact that you told your wife about it is to be commended and its clear you are level headed and responsible and not making light of this and also taking care of your and your wife's heart. fabulous! too many people dont bother and take the selfish route.

i am sure you lust after D too. and i am also sure you have feelings for her. but you know its too early to tell for sure. and the only way to find out is for the relationship to take the time required to find out. thats always the risk we take and have to accept.

but... you are married. so... what you are doing is the best course of action. assess the marriage first and then if its truely not what you want, end it as painful as that may be. then take the necessary time to heal and then you can open your heart to others.

right girl. wrong time. same thing happened to me... sigh. but we have to do the healthy thing even if its the hardest thing to do. im glad you are taking that route.

p

Thanks for the feedback, especially yours, Lillyfairie. After more than 30 years, I think I know what lust is, so I'm glad at least one person here isn't ready to jump to conclusions.


It does not really bother me as long as she is above the age of consent. I have mixed feelings on the marriage issue. Oh, BTW, I am on a first name basis with lust and judging by how crappy I feel now I know how badly love hurts.

Do you just want people to say what you want to hear?

No, that's not what I'm looking for at all, and my course of action has changed because of hearing things on this board that I didn't want to hear. I didn't want to break completely with D. Initially, I thought I could continue talking with her in the background while I sorted out my marriage issues, but now I realize that it can't work that way. My mind was clouded with this wave of emotion--and still is, really--so I'm thankful for the feedback.

The issue of lust keeps hanging around here, and I think it's important to discuss. Perhaps part of the problem is that some people don't distinguish between lust and physical attraction. To me, lust is an immediate reaction. I see a woman who turns me on, and I feel lust, even though I've never seen her before, never talked to her, and know absolutely nothing about her. I just want to do her, and I couldn't care less about who she is as a person.

With D, that didn't happen at all. In fact, I was happy when I first met her that I didn't have that reaction because then I wouldn't constantly be thinking about getting in her pants. As she and I got to know each other and the attraction grew, only then did the physical attraction develop. Maybe this is just semantics, but I don't call that lust.

Pravas, I can't tell you whether your marriage is worth saving, but I can tell you that D isn't the answer to any of your problems. Think about this just briefly: She comes into you and your wife's home, and almost immediately makes it clear to you that she's attracted to you. Is that something that you would even think about doing if you were in her position? I suspect not.

There are some things that no decent person would do, and one of them is coming into someone else's home as a guest and almost immediately doing something that could seriously jeopardize their marriage. And my rule of life has always been that once somebody has done something that no decent person would do, you know at least one thing about them -- and that is that they're not a decent person.

I'm not normally all that judgmental about affairs, since people can gradually have it dawn on them that a platonic friendship has developed into something more, and can find it almost impossible to resist temptation. But that's a process that takes a lot more than 2 weeks, and decent people resist even thinking in terms of a romantic attraction to somebody who is married for a lot more than 2 weeks, especially when they're a guest in the house of the person to whom they're attracted and that person's spouse.

Bottom line: However much D inflates your middle-aged male ego (and I can identify with that, because I'm about a decade older than you and am very flattered when its obvious that a young woman finds me attractive), she is no great catch. If you were to get together with her, she'd dump you as soon as she found somebody she thought was more attractive.

I have to say, Earl... that was a terrific post. Very insightful and true.

I'm usually all for age differences, but this time I have to side with the naysayers.

You may have a feeling of connectedness with this young woman and feel there's more chemistry, which there may very well be. However, I think, like a poster above said, single people who hit on married people are lower than dirt. Especially when it's in their own home!

My parents had an experience like that. When we were in high school and my parents were in their 40's, we took in a 29-year old border while he wrote the music for our church play. He extended his two week welcome to almost two months, and hit on my mom constantly. Fortunately, my mom was smarter than that and told him in no uncertain terms where he can put his advances! We only let him stay because he was homeless. We finally kicked him out and thankfully never heard from the creep again. We have a joke about him.... he wanted to stay for the holidays, so the bum came on New Years and stayed till Christmas.

If you and your wife really can't work things out, then split up and spend some time alone, then take your time and meet other *single* people. Probably not D.

As I read through this thread, several interesting side trips from the original post emerge.

The point is made that people often come here, state a few facts, and then ask for opinions and advice. Very true, and that requires some "judgement" or at least some "fill in the blanks" on the part of those who respond. Obviously that is done with varying levels of ability and varying levels of responsibility.

What's interesting (to me at least LOL) is how easily it is to make situations black and white when we're not in them. So often we turn these judgements into "perpetrator" and "victim" discussions, as if somehow establishing guilt is the solution to the problem.

Also interesting that the original poster even ends up on the defensive over his alledged "lust" for D.

Personally, I think everybody is guilty of something: him, wife, D - and probably anybody else we want to drag into this.

There are plenty of things we can speculate, but very little we can be certain of. One thing that appears to be true is that Prava has put a lot of thought into the situation. That's what's required: thought. This is yet another example where knowing the best questions is more important than providing the answers.

Many have already been asked and answered... like "Can I keep D in the background while I sort through marriage issues?"

Hmmmm.... I see one that hasn't been asked. You say you've never had the "magic" in your relationship with your wife... What is the "magic" and why have you not had it?

Or is that one for the marriage counselor?

What this also shows is the importance of marrying whom you love... not out of obligation or because you feel it's "appropriate" or because "this seems like the right time and appropriate person" for me. I can't judge "Pravas"'s motives, or how he ended up married to someone with whom he has no "Magic". However, all too often people end up married "just because". Someone may spend their 20s and 30s building up their career and saving for a house or whatever, or traveling and seeing the world, etc., and then they hit 40 and say "well, time to get married", and "heck, I'm 40 now, so I should take whomever comes along who is "right"" ... in the eyes of a society that stereotypes them and the type of relationship they "should" have. Or they may say, "I should be 'realistic'" (oh! no! the 'R' word!!!).

The bottom line is, if you're not on fire for the person, then don't marry them! It may have saved "Pravas" from a love triangle.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, Wallypop & SummerBob. Those are the kind of posts that I respond to the best, because--as you've noticed Wallypop--I have indeed put a lot of thought into this, and I don't see things in black & white. Because of my training as a scientist, I understand uncertainty pretty well and know that the universe is rarely as simple as we'd like to make it.

Your bringing up the issue of perpetrator & victim, guilt & innocence is also appropriate here. Yeah, some people have pretty harsh opinions of D based on very incomplete information. Some also think poorly of me for my role here, I'm sure. You say all three of us are guilty of something, but I don't see it as guilt or innocence. We're all three responsible in certain ways for the way this whole thing developed is how I'd put it.

In the end, I think this is going to be a good thing for all three of us, no matter how it works out. Yes, there will be lots of pain--there already is--but that's where growth happens. I'm just trying to do this with as much awareness as possible, and I trust that if all of us do that, we'll all grow as a result.

Speaking of putting thought into this, I think I'm pretty good at that, even in a situation like this where I'm overwhelmed by emotion. I know what I feel right now, and I feel everything at a heightened intensity level. I also know that I cannot act based only on those feelings. I have to combine what the heart feels with the analysis of the rational mind, and that's what I'm doing. That's why I'm not talking to D as I sift through the data and make some sense of all this and try to see the whole picture.

"The bottom line is, if you're not on fire for the person, then don't marry them!" Great advice, SummerBob. In my case, it's a bit late for that with my wife because we're already married, and it can be difficult to see things clearly when you're the one in the situation. If I had it all to do over again, I might make a different decision. In any event, I would certainly evaluate the situation better than I did at the time. As they say, though, hindsight is 20/20.

Thanks all. This discussion is helping me.

Just a perhaps minor point clarification... when I used the word "guilt" it was not meant in judgment. I'd perhaps prefer to talk of contribution... all three have contributed something. Much better wording and much better approach.

There is a fair amount of kangaroo reasoning applied to situations involving anything closely resembling a love triangle... and if you use the "m word," look out! LOL The brain shuts down and only sees guilt and innocence.

I also value your attempt to combine what the heart feels with the analysis of the mind... it's the synergy that's important, not the separation. It's been said that intuition is merely short-circuited logic in disguise and while I think that might be pressing things a bit much, I do think western culture way over-values logic and way undervalues emotion.

Just look a the number of posts here that attempt to rationalize age gap relationships. Perhaps the bigger question is "why do we think we have to?"

My I'm all philosophical and conceptual this morning.

I recall from my younger and perhaps more intense days the science versus faith debate. As a scientist, you will perhaps appreciate one attempt to boil that debate down to two sentences:

1. Science is a sacred cow.
2. Sacred cows make great steaks.

Yup, sometimes we have to have the courage to slay the sacred cow... to think, even when others would prefer we don't... or would prefer that we think as they do. Sometimes we have to feel, even when others would prefer we don't... or would prefer that we feel what they do.

Now I'm quite certain some will see this as me encouraging a specific path when the only path I encourage is the one you choose after careful deliberation, consideration, and a heart that is full of good things.

If she weren't 18 would there be much of an issue? Couples have problems everyday and how much more can you take? 20 years more? I wouldn't suggest it! For some reason you felt the urge to follow your heart into something. You even said that you tried to deny it. Marriage counseling is a great idea but is it really going to fix the problem? You will always be thinking of "D" and how happy she made you feel even though for just a few days. Will you EVER feel that again with your wife? Im not telling you to leave your wife but I am telling you to do what you have to do to make yourself happy!

If she weren't 18 would there be much of an issue? Couples have problems everyday and how much more can you take? 20 years more? I wouldn't suggest it! For some reason you felt the urge to follow your heart into something. You even said that you tried to deny it. Marriage counseling is a great idea but is it really going to fix the problem? You will always be thinking of "D" and how happy she made you feel even though for just a few days. Will you EVER feel that again with your wife? Im not telling you to leave your wife but I am telling you to do what you have to do to make yourself happy!


I have to respectfully disagree... if you end a long-term relationship whenever you get feelings for someone else, you'll never be with the same person forever because it is inevitable that you will feel really strongly about other people from time to time. It's natural.

And the kind of connection you can make in a few weeks, although it may seem unbelievably strong, as though you will never feel any differently -- well, that's just not enough of a bond to last, necessarily.

I agree that trying to save it is more responsible, but after 20 years don't you think that at one point or another Pravas has said something to the wife about how he's feeling? You can't keep trying to fix it if nothing is changing. It just seems that this relationship was doomed from day one.

I've never posted on this side before (felt I didn't "belong") but something compelled me to come here tonight, and HERE I IS! :D

I have two questions for Pravas:

1. Did you tell your wife before you married her that you weren't romantically in love with her and that you were marrying her for security reasons?

2. Why do people think that just because they fall in love with a person outside of their marriage and find that person irresistable, that they have to "have something" with them?

Here's my point: I believe that many people will come in and out of our lives, for a variety of reasons, and some of them will be "soul mates" if you will. We will have GREAT chemistry with them, they will connect with us above and beyond our significant others, and we will physically be attracted to them. This DOES NOT mean we have to have sex with them! We can choose NOT to have sex with them, and simply enjoy them, and the love we feel for them, and get "high" on it, just letting things be as they are. The sexual side of things doesn't have to be followed through. We are civilized beings. Sex is an urge. If I had sex with every man I had great chemistry with, I'd be batting a thousand! :D

I believe "D" might be a soul mate. Then again, she might just be an attractive kid with a similar personality to yours. Either way, she's a KID and she'll change drastically because her brain (and as a scientist you might know this) won't fully mature until she's 25, thus she won't make logical decisions (regarding relationships or any other life choices) until that time.

I feel badly for your wife. I wonder if she knows that your marriage was founded on such superficial terms? She deserves the truth.

I do commend you for being honest and open about D. I think it's good that you're seeking feedback from people instead of just acting on your urges. If you're not in love with your wife, you should let her go so someone else who is better suited for her and WILL love her the way she deserves to be loved will have that opportunity. Who knows? She might find a younger man over on our side who is crazy about her! :D

2. Why do people think that just because they fall in love with a person outside of their marriage and find that person irresistable, that they have to "have something" with them?

This is one of the most profoundly true things I have ever read. Thank you Polly. Action is indeed a choice.

I have two questions for Pravas:

1. Did you tell your wife before you married her that you weren't romantically in love with her and that you were marrying her for security reasons?

2. Why do people think that just because they fall in love with a person outside of their marriage and find that person irresistable, that they have to "have something" with them?


Well, let me try to answer them. First, it's not as simple as you seem to think. I've already mentioned in an earlier comment that hindsight is 20/20, but when you're in realtime, things aren't so clear. I think I was "romantically in love" with her, to a degree. I think at the time I thought that the love I had for her was stronger than it really was, but you know, after 20 years it's kinda hard to recall the exact feelings I had. I believe that at the time I didn't think I was marrying her for security reasons.

Also, I do still care for and respect and admire her. Is that reason enough for me to stay? I don't know. I've been agonizing about this for a couple of weeks now and every day seems to bring new surprises and twists in what's happening both externally and internally. I cry almost every day, sometimes about the idea that I may have to tell D that we can't do this, sometimes about the possibility of ending the relationship with my wife, and sometimes because D and I aren't communicating anymore.

Sometimes it's almost unbearable and I wish this had never happened. Other times I hope that this will be good for all of us in the end, however it works out. Right now I feel pain and sadness because someone (or more than one) is going to suffer a lot, and the decision is up to me.

Getting back to your first question, this morning my wife asked me how I'd feel if she got a boyfriend: jealous or relieved? My answer was that I'd be relieved. The pain I feel in ending the relationship with her is for her sadness because she doesn't want it to end. I feel terrible for her and then start thinking what a monster I must be to even suggest leaving. But then I think, is it fair for me to stay out of pity for her? Or is there more in me than just pity?

I don't know. I'm quite confused at the moment. Sometimes things seem clear, and the next moment they're not. When I think about leaving my wife, I feel sad for her. When I think about staying with my wife, I feel sad that I'll miss out on D, or whatever other relationships I have after the divorce.

As for question 2, I can't answer for other people; I can only tell you what I feel is true in my case. I've been coasting along in my marriage, feeling unfulfilled in some ways, OK in others. At the same time, I guess I opened myself up to other possibilities if they presented themselves. I tried to deal head-on with the issues in my marriage, many times. It never went anywhere though, so I kept coasting and waiting. D showed up, and we clicked.

Should I have left my wife before being open to something new? Maybe. If I had left before now, though, she would have had a difficult time financially. Now she's got an inheritance coming that will make it easy for her in that regard should we split up.

I've noticed that there's a fair amount of intolerance on this board for relationship overlap, especially if one's a marriage. That's fine. Everyone's free to believe what they want, but I think that a lot of good relationships probably do start at the end of an existing one. I'd be curious to see some statistics.


I believe "D" might be a soul mate. Then again, she might just be an attractive kid with a similar personality to yours. Either way, she's a KID and she'll change drastically because her brain (and as a scientist you might know this) won't fully mature until she's 25, thus she won't make logical decisions (regarding relationships or any other life choices) until that time.


Yes, I'm aware that the brain keeps developing until the mid twenties, but not from being a scientist (my field is physics). I learned that here at AgelessLove.

I don't know what the future holds for me and D. Perhaps there's nothing more for us from now on, or perhaps there's a long-term relationship ahead. Maybe it's something in between. If anything does develop, though, I'll try to do it with lots of awareness and give her plenty of latitude to grow and mature at her own pace.

Thanks for giving me another opportunity to clarify what's going on. It helps me to do this.

As I mentioned above, this whole thing is causing a lot of pain. There will definitely be one positive outcome though--I'll be a much better juggler at the end of it than I was at the beginning. I've been practicing obsessively to focus my mind somewhere else for at least part of each day.

Pravas,

My heart really goes out to you. From reading your posts, the sense I get is that you're being honest, that you have a sincere desire to see things in a clear light (regardless of whether it is something you want to hear or not, especially if it is conveyed back with respect), and that you are very confused (perhaps because things happened so quickly, perhaps because this isn't a simple situation, etc)...

Like wallypop and a few others have said, I don't think this is an issue of *lust*, as much as it is of a very powerful chemistry between you and *D*. You strike me as a fair and intelligent man and I'd venture to guess that if you were lying to yourself, it would just come through in your writings, but for me it seems like you're straight shooting.

I certainly don't have any answers...your journey will be unique unto you with its own twists and turns, but I can relate to some of what you've experienced...

When I first met my OM, it was here on the net (of all places). From the moment we met, I felt something VERY powerful. I remember thinking to myself, this is NUTS (this is the net, I don't know him, etc etc etc), but whatever it is/was then, it's still there today, 5 years later. There was an instantaneous connection, I believe I always had the potential to fall in love with him and was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to fall in love with him, it was just that strong of a bond. I've met alot of people in my life and like you, I know the real thang from (what is to me) cheap lust.

I also know what it's like to be in a marriage for 20 years...I know what it's like to marry the wrong person, and looking back, I also didn't understand the *truth* of that relationship THEN, like I did LATER. Looking back now, I can see where I sacrificed myself in many ways for the sake of staying married, for the children, etc...I guess for all the wrong reasons. Divorce is very traumatic, but if it's done right (with decency and respect), it can help lighten the hurt along the way. Today, I am a GREAT friend to the ex, I'm a better mother to the children and I feel honored and blessed to have my OM in my life.

In the long run, doing things the right way (once again with decency and respect for everyone, most of all yourself) affords one peace of heart. Many times, the right things are the most difficult to do, but when we look back, it is easy to stand knowing that it was done in a proper manner. Beware of that *short term satisfaction vs long term gain*. I can, at times, be inclined to jump and wing something that has stirred me and hafta work at reasoning things through, looking at all sides, placing my feet in others shoes, and asking (usually only those I trust) for feed back. I commend you on taking a risk by posting here, allowing all kinds of feedback...and it is wise of you to take what you feel accurately pertains to you (from what people have shared here in response) and to leave the rest.

As far as *D* goes, it reminds me of that saying that states something to the effect...if you love something, set it free...if it comes back to you, it's yours...if it doesn't, it was never meant to be. That's really hard to do, but sometimes we just hafta trust that our honorable intentions will someday come back in return.

And with that, I'll...


shadddup.

Yes, I'm aware that the brain keeps developing until the mid twenties, but not from being a scientist (my field is physics). I learned that here at AgelessLove.

Dude... be skeptical huh? Just cuz you read it here does not by any means make it fact!

Plus... its your life... live it.

/edited to add: Took me five minutes in google to find research and guess what... there isn't anything I found that says brain development continues into the mid 20s. See how easily someone can tell you the sky is purple?

I've noticed that there's a fair amount of intolerance on this board for relationship overlap, especially if one's a marriage. That's fine. Everyone's free to believe what they want, but I think that a lot of good relationships probably do start at the end of an existing one. I'd be curious to see some statistics.



Well... figures lie and liars figure. LOL I'll bet as a scientist you know the dangers of researching a hypothesis you already believe and I've seen more than one instance where 9 out of 10 people were wrong.

But the real reason I had to post is to say that I absolutely love the phrase "relationship overlap." Now there's a concept you can really sink your teeth into! LOL

You are of course correct with your observation regarding intolerance and I find myself wondering if there would be more tolerlance if we spoke of "relationship overlap" rather than "marriage." (By the way, I am having fun with this, so there is no need to flame me.)

The larger point in all this is that human beings have a huge opportunity to learn and experience new things, new thoughts, new feelings. For thousands of reasons, most don't. One of those thousand reasons is that it can be very difficult to merge the new with the previous. That's what this thread is about, isn't it?

Oh, by the way... it's been early forty years since I was in my 20's. I don't care what the science says, my brain is still developing.

Beware of that *short term satisfaction vs long term gain*. I can, at times, be inclined to jump and wing something that has stirred me and hafta work at reasoning things through, looking at all sides, placing my feet in others shoes, and asking (usually only those I trust) for feed back...

As far as *D* goes, it reminds me of that saying that states something to the effect...if you love something, set it free...if it comes back to you, it's yours...if it doesn't, it was never meant to be. That's really hard to do, but sometimes we just hafta trust that our honorable intentions will someday come back in return.


Thanks for understanding, shadddup. This is extremely difficult for me (have I mentioned that yet?), and this issue of short term satisfaction vs long term gain is most important. I keep hoping for that moment when everything becomes crystal clear, but it hasn't arrived yet. Maybe it never will. Maybe it will take a long time.

Yeah, that saying about setting free something you love is one of the things that keeps floating through my mind. Would that it were as easy as it sounds! Should I choose this path, it looks like it will be made even more difficult soon. D and I are now about 400 miles apart, but she'll probably be spending the next six months as an intern on another farm only about 30 miles from me. I've already set her free once by sending her away from our home, and now she's coming back this way. Yeah, I know it hasn't been long enough to really satisfy the "set it free" part, but it's gonna be hard as hell to stay away from her for 6 months if she's that close and I decide that's the best path.

Another influence on me for the past couple of days is the email I got from D's father. He made some good points, and I can certainly see why he's not happy with what's happened. He thinks that it's unwise, not morally correct, and that the "ridiculous" age gap will rob D of the experiences of youth that she might otherwise have in a more "appropriate" relationship. If a long-term relationship leads to marriage for me and D, I don't know if I'd ever be accepted as a proper son-in-law.



Dude... be skeptical huh? Just cuz you read it here does not by any means make it fact!


Wow, you got me there. I guess I've seen it mentioned so many times here (and probably at other age-gap sites) and my mind is so clouded that I accepted it uncritically. If anyone can point me to sources, let me know.


Well... figures lie and liars figure. LOL I'll bet as a scientist you know the dangers of researching a hypothesis you already believe and I've seen more than one instance where 9 out of 10 people were wrong...

(By the way, I am having fun with this, so there is no need to flame me.)


You forgot my favorite: There's lies, damn lies, and statistics. Yes, it's very easy for researchers to skew results in a certain direction--intentionally or unintentionally--by how they gather and analyze the data. There are good studies out there though; it's just difficult for most people to know how reliable the results are. Also, we're bombarded with so much information every day that even those who understand statistics and science can't be bothered to dig into the details every time we see someone quoting statistics to support a particular hypothesis.

Flame you? Why would I do that? I've found your previous comments--as well as this post--to be thoughtful and thought-provoking. I think I can be accused of flaming someone on this board only once, and I believe that in that case I was both gentle and justified.

75% of all statistics are inaccurate. :p

If D lives 400 miles away, why does she have to intern only 30 miles from you? Why can't she intern farther away? I have a problem with her apparent lack of conscience when it comes to being a homewrecker. You know, I was "D" plenty of times in my late teens and early twenties. Men fell all over me, especially married ones. There was one I absolutely adored! He was so smart, so funny, and I can honestly say, a soul mate. My physical attraction to him was the icing on the cake. His wife worked late hours, so sometimes he'd join our gang after work at a bar for happy hour. We could have easily slipped out and fooled around, and my guess is he would have done it in a heartbeat by the look in his eyes, but I could never do something like that. I had way too much respect for his wife and for myself. I knew I deserved a man who was completely unattached and emotionally available, not someone else's husband!

At D's age, yeah, she might be attracted to you, but she's also attracted to the pizza delivery boy, the guy at the supermarket, her teacher, her mechanic...do you get my drift? You feel real special because you're 45 and this hot kid is coming on to you, and believe me, this is very real for her too...right now. Tomorrow she could meet Mr. Hunk at the movie theater and you'll be history. In the meantime, your wife could meet someone else who feels about her the way you do about D right now, and when you find yourself alone and regreting what you've done, your wife will be getting her rocks off with some other guy and it will be too late to save your marriage.

My problem with D is that she made her feelings known to you, in your own home, under your wife's nose, in the midst of an apparently secure marriage. Women of character don't do that. If they're attracted to someone who's attached, no matter how strong the attraction, they know where to draw the line.

You're saying you were waiting for something else, leaving yourself emotionally open. Well, it seems to me that things were pretty good between you and your wife before D came along. So they got a little stale. Even good marriages are hard work. You can't just float along and expect everything to happen the way you want it to. You have to make things happen. Let's say, for instance, you wanted to spice up your sex life. When's the last time you went skinny dipping with your wife, or gave her a full body oil massage, or whisked her away for a weekend in a tropical paradise, or watched a really hot movie together? Take some responsibility here. If things went stale, you were 50% of it. She was the other 50% and has to try harder too.

I don't think you should stay in a marriage out of pity, but I don't think you're completely out of love with your wife either. She doesn't sound abusive, addicted to any substance, or nuts, and the fact that she still wants you after your telling her about D says volumes about her...she doesn't make rash decisions and she loves you with all of her heart. You don't find a woman like that every day...maybe once or twice in a lifetime, and I don't think D in any way matches your wife's character. Infatuation can be a powerful thing, but it eventually goes away. True love endures.

I'm sorry, I hope I don't sound like I'm preaching, I've just seen people make this mistake before and live to regret it. I'm glad you're posting here about it and open to everyone's input. I hope you and your wife give marriage counseling a shot, and I also hope you whisk her off to an island very soon. :) You might just remember why you fell so much in love with her all those years ago. BTW, your remark about being relieved if she found another man must have been a huge slap to her face. I know she asked you the question though, and you were being honest; but think about this - you're saying that because you're infatuated with D. Try to imagine never having met D. Try to imagine things before that, when you enjoyed a beautiful evening with your wife, or laughed really hard at something together, or spent a really fun time with some friends. Try to feel the history there, that you two have built. If she had found someone then, before you did, and suddenly found you unsatisfying and undesireable, how would that make you feel?

Flame you? Why would I do that? I've found your previous comments--as well as this post--to be thoughtful and thought-provoking. I think I can be accused of flaming someone on this board only once, and I believe that in that case I was both gentle and justified.


Sorry... that request was not directed at you in any way, although I can see that it might have sounded so. LOL There are some rather close-minded people on the board when it comes to... what was it... "overlapping relationships?"

Another saying? Once burned, twice careful. :D I do enjoy "provoking thought" and sometimes that provokes anger - a fascinating emotion.

I think Polly's post made a lot of sense. It is hard for an old relationship to compete with the intensity of a new one. Sometimes the instant chemistry lasts a lifetime, albeit toned down after the honeymoon period....and sometimes it fades to the way the last relationship was. Or the original relationship may not be the best for each of them. With another person in there, it is really next to impossible to tell....even if the other person is moreorless waiting in the wings. It leave the OP always thinking he might have something better there rather than be able to do what he wants, make sure the marriage itself is beyond resurrecting.

They say under all the resentments and staleness, love never really dies. If he felt it once, it is there, but buried beyeath the layers. It is always easier to begin a new fresh one with a clean slate.

Probably why so many Hollywood marriages dissolve. They get past the honeymoon stage and are then intimately involved with another person on a set and feel the new chemistry.

So, it makes sense that the OP wants to see if his marriage is salvageable before proceeding with something new. But, I'd say as he did....it will be harder to keep that resolve if "D" is going to be interning nearby.

I also think that it is a bad sign that someone would announce an attraction while in the home of a couple, even if the couple seemed a bit strained and the man was looking with interest.

I think it's about time for me to come into the picture. Allow me to introduce myself: I am known within this thread as "D"

I thought I should tell the story from my perspective. Pravas told it accurately from where he stands, but I think everyone could get a more complete picture of the situation if they heard it told from this side also.

I will start from the beginning.

I found this ad online for an internship at an organic farm in GA. Just what I was looking for. Almost too good to be true. All the negotiations by phone and email went very well. I was happy. We arranged for Pravas & wife to pick me up at the apartment in FL where I was living. In the drive up there I mostly talked with his wife about farming, not really including Pravas in the conversation. Even so, I couldn't help but notice all the little things that he did and said. There was something about him that made me want to get to know him better, to be his friend, to be close to him.

Now, at that early stage I didn't really know where things were going. I knew I liked him, but at the time I didn't know where all that affection that I felt like expressing would lead to. In the following days we got to know each other better, in the evenings, after work. We played board games, we ate ice cream, and we learned how to juggle together. He teased me the way I love to be teased. I laughed at his jokes, which complement my own sense of humor so perfectly. We have many of the same interests and ideas about... life... and stuff. We connected in so many different levels, ones that are hard to describe, and that can only be felt and understood by the two people involved, by looking deeply into each other's eyes.

So we just shared that beautiful, unspoken love for a few days. We weren't quite aware that it was building up so quickly and so strongly, but it was only a matter of time until it got too big to be ignored.

Many times I said to myself "D, what is this? You have got to stop feeling this way, it isn't right! He's MARRIED, and you're staying at their house. Besides, he's 27 years older than you! Be sensible, it cannot be!" But then how many of you out there can talk sense into your hearts and tell them what to feel and what not to feel, or toward who? It just happens. It's there. And once you've crossed that fine line, it's too late to go back. (We call that the Unstrangement process)

I honestly didn't know what I was going to do. As I told Pravas later on, if he hadn't said anything outright to me, I probably wouldn't have had the nerve to ever say a word; not that it was necessary, since our eyes and body language completely gave us away. There were no words that could speak louder or clearer.
But for the sake of verbal confirmation, which is an unnecessary necessity of us humans, we eventually "confessed" our feelings to each other.

So, what if we hadn't said anything? What if we had kept it quiet? Would that make me a better person, a decent person? Would it make him a better person?

As for the wife, I don't want to pollute this post by badmouthing her, and I really have no reason to do so. I like her fine, but in my opinion (and it can be argued that it's not an entirely impartial opinion), is that her and Pravas' relationship doesn't even resemble a healthy husband/wife relationship. It's lacking something essential. Maybe a compatibility issue? It must have gotten lost somewhere along the way, or maybe it was never there. But either way, that's not for me to say.

I don't really know what the issue here is anymore. There's basically only two concerns: The fact that he's married, and the age gap.

Now, since this is, after all, a website supporting age gap relationships, I don't see why some people are so negative about a prospective relationship between us. Things like "She's only 18!", or "her brain doesn't work properly yet", or "she'll just go around falling for any and every hot thing that crosses her path" keep popping up. Well, let me just say that by me, love is "ageless", that I haven't seen any data supporting the brain development theory, and that, as of yet, I haven't fallen for every hot thing to cross my path. In fact, I happen to be very picky about who I get involved with, and once I do get involved, I am innately and effortlessly faithful.
A lesson that has been pounded in my brain over and over lately is that one should never make generalizations.

As for him being married, I truly do believe that if Pravas & wife do get a divorce, it would not be because of me. Pravas has been going through a lot of hard thought and self discovery, and I trust that his decision to stay married or split up will be based on all the right reasons, and not just on the prospect of having a relationship with me.

All right, I hope that my writing was clear and that I was able to express my ideas accurately. I look forward to feedback and reactions to this post. :)

- D

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye" -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

With deep sincerity, welcome to Ageless. I admire your willingness to join in the discussion... and, frankly, your courage.

I too have the perspective that all generalities are false. (Although I've occasionally observed that the generality that all generalities must also be false... :) ) As you've no doubt seen from reading the thread, there will be no lack of generalities in a discussion of your situation.

I think my feedback and reaction to your post is not greatly different than what I've posted to Prava. I would say that your perspective and words belies the fact that your numerical age is 18. I sense a maturity often missing in women with a higher number.

It is my hope that you will, in fact, be welcomed here. Your situation is complex and it appears to me that you and Prava are giving it the sort of attention and thought that will allow you move forward in a direction that truly "makes sense" if not to the head, then to the heart.

I, for one, see no need to judge anyone here and hope that we can provide you with thoughtful feedback that is helpful.

Welcome D. :)

I'm going to try to respond as non-judgementally as possible.

From what I've read, you felt an instant connection with Pravas. That's all fine and good, happens every day. Not only that, but it will happen to you again...probably many times, as you make your way in the world. Why DID you think it was okay to cross that fine line? Why couldn't you just enjoy Pravas as a person? If you sensed tension in the marriage, why couldn't you just back off out of respect to Pravas, his wife, and yourself? I've said this before in this thread, but not everyone you fall in love with has to become a sexual partner. You really don't have to go there!

I've been in your position, where I really felt a strong connection with someone and could sense his wife (who I thought wasn't his best choice of a partner) was aware of our feelings for eachother. I backed the Hell off! There are too many fish in the sea to steal one off of someone else's hook.

Gotta run, but I'll check back later, sorry to be so rushed!

Okay, I'm back. Hope I didn't sound like I was scolding you.

Another thing you said, D, is that he said something to you first. That if he hadn't done that, you would have never said anything to him. I'm disappointed in Pravas for doing this. He shouldn't have initiated it, and I for some reason believed that you did. Anyway, he initiates it, you respond. I'm thinking you responded the way you did because of your inexperience. This is in no way a put down. What I'm saying here is a more experienced person would have known that a come-on from a married person, whether the marriage was troubled or not, is never a good thing, and would have backed off from it. There is no "right" or "wrong" to what you did because you obviously never experienced it before. But if you think of yourself as a moral and just person, you have to think about the wife, and how utterly unfair this all is to her. She's given her heart and soul to Pravas for 20 years, and this is what she gets? You couldn't possibly know how it feels to be in her shoes, how extremely painful that is. Whether you think those two are meant to be or not, it isn't your place to come into their home and give in to a possible romance with him.

It's too bad that Pravas and you couldn't have just enjoyed eachother and let the sexual attraction go. I know that's hard, but it is possible. Sometimes doing what's right is different than doing what feels good at the time. In this respect, I don't think you were really looking at the big picture, or the future long-term. Someday you'll be in Pravas's wife's shoes, and you'll understand what it's like to try to compete with a very young, fresh-faced, fun girl, who hasn't yet faced life's trials and tribulations. I know it's so hard for you to imagine that right now, but try to. Life sneaks up on you when you're not looking.

I think you should completely leave Pravas alone, and he should leave you alone. No contact whatsoever, unless and until he gets a divorce. In the meantime, I think Pravas should at least go to counseling with his wife and see if there's anything left to salvage. Twenty years is a very long time to invest in someone, and Pravas owes his wife that consideration. If they're truly not meant to be, the counselor will see that in a heartbeat. Likewise, if Pravas is going through mid-life crisis, flattered by your attraction to him, and is thinking with his "little head", the counselor will see that as well.

In the end, I'm not as concerned about your age gap (although from my vast experience in this area I don't see it lasting long-term) as I am about the way this all came about. I don't think you're bad people either. I don't think that at all. I think you're caught up in the heat of the moment, and you're human. You sound very intelligent to me, btw. I thought you presented yourself well here. I hope you find good feedback that helps you to move forward.

Maybe next time you intern, you should go to a farm with two gay guys! :D Just kidding, couldn't resist! :D

Polly ~

With all due respect, I disagree with alot of what you have said (which is ok cause that means you disagree with what I say lol)...

I'm sure we've both been around the block a few times ourselves...you could very well look at some situations in my life and exclaim, "OH MY GOSH! How could you have?!?!?" and vice versa. I'm not one for arm chair quarterbacking and remember the times that all the unique, outta synch circumstances seemed to come together at the right (or wrong) time and chit just happened. I dont find it right nor fair to review situations that have already happened and state, "you shoulda turned left here, and right there, how could you have not known, how could you have turned right instead of left first, etc. To me, there is INtentional and UNintentional courses that one can take. I just don't see a "ok let's see...lemme put an ad in the paper and find a home to destroy, blahblahblah"...

IF and I mean a BIG if, I'm reading Pravda's explaination of his relationship with his wife correctly, then in alot of ways I can over understand because I lived in a similar relationship like that for over 20 years...the *heart and soul* that you reference could really be quite different than what you may be seeing. Sometimes the wrong people marry each other and it doesn't make anyone necessarily at fault, just sometimes it needs to end and each party start over and rebuild a healthier, more fulfilling life. Only Pravda and his wife will be able to evaluate that themselves...perhaps they'll walk away, or perhaps they will come to realize that they're meant to be together.

I also don't think it's fair to assume that if Pravda and *D* end up together that she will hafta take extra measures to insure that he doesn't repeat this with some other *young thang* in the future. Neither of them come across as being that egotistical or shallow.

*sigh* Ok enough, I'm not going to continue to itemize all the areas I disagree with, just suffice it to say that I think Pravda's explanations and *D*'s account have been submitted (to the best of their abilities) in a genuinely honest manner. I see no self centered consipiracy theories here.

Anyway, *D*...

As Wally stated, you do come across as being level headed and mature beyond your years...I understand how something like this could have happened, I understand the chemistry that you felt from the start and I sympathize with where you find yourself at now.

My only counsel would be...

Although incredibly difficult, doing the right thing is the only way to go. Giving him the space that he needs to sort out his marriage first is the right thing to do. If y'all end up getting together down the road, the peace of heart you both will feel KNOWING that whatever his decision was, was based on him and his wife alone, is vital. It affords you your self respect, as well as his.

As far as the age gap issue, that's a personal choice. If he wants to develop a relationship with someone 27 years younger than him, then he seems intelligent and wise enough to make that determination, and the same goes for you. If you are both willing to deal with the "unique needs and/or circumstances" that would go with that type of relationship, then by all means, attempt it. If it works out, great! If it doesn't, hopefully a life long friendship would be the absolute down side.

Regardless, best of luck...I'm sure this is very difficult for all parties involved.


Shad.

Shaddup, I couldn't agree with you more! I to have been in a situation of sorts. Life is a journey! Sometimes we take the road less traveled, and sometimes we take one of the other hundreds of roads...haha.
Polly, you said "Life sneaks up on you when you're not looking." It sure did for D and Pravas! That's life! These things happen! No one is at fault for having life happen to them!
Just remember, no one here can tell you what you have done is either right or wrong. Only the man upstairs decides that one.
I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason! You have to determine that one one you own.
Good luck and God Bless!

p.s.
D~ You seem very intelligent and level headed!
People of all ages have the same problem that you and Prava's have! Age IS just a number! Keep smiling!

Polly, this is in answer to your post:

I'm aware, as has been pointed out, that it is natural for people trying to give feedback on an issue like this, with limited facts on the table, to base comments on assumptions; sometimes those assumptions will be right, and others they won't. In this case I would like to clarify some things that I think you assumed wrong:

"Another thing you said, D, is that he said something to you first. That if he hadn't done that, you would have never said anything to him. I'm disappointed in Pravas for doing this. He shouldn't have initiated it, and I for some reason believed that you did."

Pravas DID say something to me first, but as I tried to make very clear in my last post, that wasn't what started it; it was merely a verbal confirmation of what we both knew was already there. If there is someone to "blame" for initiating it, then that's gotta be me. But see, I wasn't aiming for that! I don't know what I was aming for. The only thing I knew was that I liked this guy and that I wanted to spend time with him, talk to him, play with him, etc, and I acted like it; I didn't hide it. That was the "coming on" part, I suppose. Next thing I knew, feelings were taking shape; now I not only liked him, but I liked him. By then he knew, not because I told him, but because he... could feel it. And he was feeling the same. There is no "guilty" one. You see what I'm saying?

I think you should completely leave Pravas alone, and he should leave you alone. No contact whatsoever, unless and until he gets a divorce. In the meantime, I think Pravas should at least go to counseling with his wife and see if there's anything left to salvage. Twenty years is a very long time to invest in someone, and Pravas owes his wife that consideration. If they're truly not meant to be, the counselor will see that in a heartbeat. Likewise, if Pravas is going through mid-life crisis, flattered by your attraction to him, and is thinking with his "little head", the counselor will see that as well.


Well, Polly, are you clairvoyant? Cuz that is exactly what is happening right now; exept that I hope Pravas & wife won't let the counselor just tell them whether they should stay together or not, but rather have him help them dig deep inside themselves and figure it out on their own.
I thought I made it clear in my last post that I didn't want to be the reason for Pravas to get a divorce. He and I both agree that that decision has to be his and his wife's alone, and that's what's happening.

Either way, I don't think this whole situation should be treated as something that should have been avoided at all costs. It happened, and I like to think that it is exactly what SHOULD have happened. Sometimes life takes turns that were triggered by something or someone, and sometimes those turns turn out to be for best. Even if Pravas and I DON'T end up together, I think that his life (and hopefully his wife's as well) will have been positively changed when all this is over.


I just read your posts, Shadddup and Hopeful. Thanks for your thoughtful replies and advice; I will definitely keep smiling:)

If it works out, great! If it doesn't, hopefully a life long friendship would be the absolute down side.
Way to go! Nicely put.

- D

"I think you should completely leave Pravas alone, and he should leave you alone. No contact whatsoever" ...are you clairvoyant? Cuz that is exactly what is happening right now; exept that I hope Pravas & wife won't let the counselor just tell them whether they should stay together or not, but rather have him help them dig deep inside themselves and figure it out on their own.

I'm guessing YOU too must be clairvoyant? If you have left him alone and not been keeping contact with him......How do you know
1) His screen name here?
2) This website/thread even exists?

Google's good but come on now!

Anyhow Welcome to the site.

Simple solution to all this thread has covered.
Triangles have 3 sides.
Let Mrs Pravas join, Read the thread and share her deep inside thoughts as well.

Best of luck to all!

I'm guessing YOU too must be clairvoyant? If you have left him alone and not been keeping contact with him......How do you know
1) His screen name here?
2) This website/thread even exists?

Google's good but come on now!

Anyhow Welcome to the site.

Simple solution to all this thread has covered.
Triangles have 3 sides.
Let Mrs Pravas join, Read the thread and share her deep inside thoughts as well.

Best of luck to all!

I think HappyPappy has a darn good idea. Let's hear from Mrs. Pravas.

And D, I've been in similar shoes to yours when I was your age and I promise you that it should NOT have happened. Thats not how God, Karma or the universe works. I suffered later in life because of those actions I took as a young woman. I also married a man that consistently cheated on me. I would pay any amount of money in the world if I could change what I did at your age.

Neither of you could help your feelings and there is nothing wrong with those feelings, but neither of you should have acted upon them while he was married.

Shan

I'm guessing YOU too must be clairvoyant? If you have left him alone and not been keeping contact with him......How do you know
1) His screen name here?
2) This website/thread even exists?

Google's good but come on now!

Anyhow Welcome to the site.

Simple solution to all this thread has covered.
Triangles have 3 sides.
Let Mrs Pravas join, Read the thread and share her deep inside thoughts as well.

Back when he started this thread were WERE still communicating.
"Anyhow, welcome to the site" -- I love how you first threw a knife at me and then welcomed me :p

Sdoah1972 -- I'm going to leave you at peace with your opinions and not even bother to try and argue against them - it would be a great and unnecessary waste of time and energy, when I feel that I have explained my views clearly enough already.

Back when he started this thread were WERE still communicating.
"Anyhow, welcome to the site" -- I love how you first threw a knife at me and then welcomed me :p

Threw a Knife?
Um.......

Psst..................... HE comes to this site FACT
Now..............YOU are posting here FACT
On THIS VERY SAME THREAD

Maybe on YOUR planet this means NO CONTACT?? Yes?

Whatever...

Back when he started this thread were WERE still communicating.
"Anyhow, welcome to the site" -- I love how you first threw a knife at me and then welcomed me :p

Sdoah1972 -- I'm going to leave you at peace with your opinions and not even bother to try and argue against them - it would be a great and unnecessary waste of time and energy, when I feel that I have explained my views clearly enough already.


For someone who claims to be mature you certainly do not express that maturity when someone tells you something you don't like. Obviously, you did not read my post correctly. I did not condemn you. I simply said that I've been there and having had that experience I advised you not to continue. It will not end well. Save your heart and your dignity.

I've been the other woman and I've been cheated on. Neither is fun. Neither is admirable. Neither is it what I want to see for you. If you choose to ignore sound, caring advise then that is your choice and you are entitled to that. It seems to me you just like the advise that supports your feelings and your actions. Actually, thats not advice at all. Thats just a cheering section.

Shan

I'm going to add one last post to this thread, because frankly, I feel that Pravas and D are asking for permission to do what they're doing, and in not getting it, are becoming defensive.

D, you said in a previous post that you wanted to "know him, play with him, etc."...that sounds to me like you were never all that serious. You never mentioned the word "love". I don't know what your motives for getting with Pravas are, but they don't seem honorable enough to mess with a marriage of 20 years which seemingly went well before you came along. Yeah, the first thing a guy's gonna say is, "Oh, whoa is me. I've wanted out of this for soooooo long, but just didn't get the chance..." PUHLEEEZE! If a guy wants out, HE GETS OUT! He doesn't just hang around for 20 years until some 18-year-old "rescues" him! NOBODY'S that helpless! I've known crippled men with more balls!

You all can just play your little game, and wreck Pravas's wife's life in the meantime (I do believe in karma...watch out!) but don't expect too much sympathy. If you were coming here as a single girl wanting advice about a single older man, it would be different, at least in my eyes, but the sitch you're in is just not one I can condone. If others think it's okay, then by all means, listen to them and continue on your happy little path. I can tell by your post to Sdoah that you don't want to hear anything other than kudos, so there's not much point in posting anything further.

When I came here, in January of 2000 (although my profile says otherwise) this site was 400 strong. It was married couples of ow/ym talking about their issues. Live-in couples were discouraged. Dating ow/ym couples were even more discouraged. The site has changed a lot. In some aspects, it needed to. For instance, om/yw needed to be included. But with the expansion and growth of the site came more and more unmoralistic circumstances. Yes, this is a support site for AGRs, but first, it should be a legitimate AGR before it is supported. An AGR that is harmful or hurtful for some reason or another will not receive support from the majority of the members.

Ok.......just had to jump in with my piece here.

I have spoken with both Pravas and D. They are both very well grounded and sharp individuals that have found a relationship together. Although ther is an "overlap" (using a partial quote from Pravas), I admire his courage to come here and lay it on the line what his intentions are and seek advice.

As well, I think D has made very sensible and non threatening posts regarding her thoughts and feelings about Pravas.

Together but separately they are seeking advice from those who may have or are in a situation similar to theirs.

Personally, I think two people that cut off all communication for any amount of time to attempt to find themselves within themselves is worthy of positive and'or constructive advice and not crude remarks or judgement calls of what society views as ignorance and immoral.

I've never been perfect and am the last to cast stones.........i have yet to meet anyone who is perfect. The one who chose every correct road to take in life. Yes they have come to the fork but I think their conscious (sp) decision to stop and ask for directions is atleast worthy of an intelligent and non threatening answer.

Just my two pennies.

[QUOTE=Polly]

D, you said in a previous post that you wanted to "know him, play with him, etc."...that sounds to me like you were never all that serious. You never mentioned the word "love".

Polly, I have to disagree with you on this.
Love is not something that happens right away. Getting to know someone is a step to love.

Yanno, I'm gonna post this and then I'm gonna go to bed for the night...I had to have both stupid knees injected for pain today and I'm tired and am increasingly getting into a bad mood reading some of the posts on this site tonight...

Perhaps this site started out with a single focus and has since expanded. Perhaps a feeling of seniority gives one the platform with which to espouse ones views and paint them as tribal law.

As an owner of a very successful and long standing website myself, totally unrelated to the topic matter discussed herein, I learned a long time ago the etiquette of communicating on the net with only the written word.

I've learned compassion for others predicaments, without having to experience the same set of circumstances.

I've learned that with growth on message boards, comes more diverse circumstances and experiences, many of which I may not like nor agree with.

And I've learned that many do not possess, nor care to accept, the responsibility that comes with the written word.

And with that, I'll...


shadddup.

Nite.

Oh, no, not at all, Shan, I read your post very carefully. Twice. I appreciate your advice, and I know you are well-meaning. I am sorry for what happened to you when you were young; it must have been hard, and I understand that you want to save me all the trouble, so thanks. STILL, I don't think you are in a position to say "It will not end well" That's a generalization, and if you have been reading the rest of my posts at all, you'll know that I don't like those. That's all.

Now Polly,

D, you said in a previous post that you wanted to "know him, play with him, etc."...that sounds to me like you were never all that serious. You never mentioned the word "love". I don't know what your motives for getting with Pravas are, but they don't seem honorable enough to mess with a marriage of 20 years which seemingly went well before you came along.

I understand and respect your viewpoint - that marriage is first and should not be messed with.

When you quoted me saying "I wanted to spend time with him, talk to him, play with him, etc" and you say that that's not how love starts? How about if I had said: "I just wanted to jump on him and kiss him and have him make love to me", would that have sounded better? I think not. I think that if that were the case, that would have been a sure way to tell that it was nothing more than... well, lust. Pure physical attraction. I think that the fact that I wanted to get to know him and spend time with him and talk with him are proof that there is something deeper there. One of the many things that make love grow and blossom is precisely that: shared experiences; laughs; conversations...

Now, please don't get the idea that I'm being defensive. I did get a little upset by some obviously sarcastic comments posted by someone earlier, but even then, I don't think my reply was defensive or disrespectful or such.

Do know, everyone, that I don't intend to put anyone down, or disregard all negative feedback. I respect all your opinions and will read and consider all, (as long as they are thoughtful and respectful) and then take what resounds to me. That's the best I can do.

- D

D, let me add the view of a guy who has been through very much what you and Pravas had happen, except over a somewhat longer period and fortunately, it ended before things got beyond very heavy flirting.

Whatever you think, you and Pravas aren't in love. You haven't known each other long enough or well enough to be in love. You're obviously INFATUATED with each other is a wonderful feeling that CAN lead to genuine love, it normally doesn't. Infatuation with another person is never a decent reason to end a marriage, because while it doesn't last, it's always much more intense than any relationship -- even one of genuine love -- which has lasted past that initial period of infatuation.

If you really care about Pravas, you won't be communicating with him -- including by posting here. And you'll try to find an internship at a location that doesn't make it quite so convenient for you to get back together as one that's only 30 miles away from him.

You'll go on with your life, and let him go on with his. His marriage may or may not survive, but being the immediate cause of your partner's long marriage breaking up, no matter how many problems it might have had, is far from the best basis on which to build a relationship.

And while you may think that the negative reactions you've gotten haven't been supportive of an age gap relationship, please believe me when I tell you that your youth has nothing to do with the reactions. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that they would have been much more negative if you were older.

...Perhaps this site started out with a single focus and has since expanded. Perhaps a feeling of seniority gives one the platform with which to espouse ones views and paint them as tribal law...


As an observer who's been fascinated with the sociology of this website, I more than chuckled over this paragraph. Hopefully I won't go too far off topic by suggesting that I've occasionally speculated things like "number of posts" and other labels would be better dropped to level the playing field.

When people claim they have "30 year's experience," we have to look deep and ask ourselves if perhaps they had one year's experience 30 times.

When people claim they have had "exactly the same thing happen to them" we have to understand that they are projecting their experience into a situation that may, in fact, be totally different.

I suspect this site has changed. In fact it's changed significanly in the short time I've been a member - in most ways for the better. I'll bet it will different tomorrow.

People and relationships change too. I do not pretend to know what has happened or what is happening in this situation. For that matter, I do not presume to know what should happen. How they proceed is their business and my world will little change based on what they've done or will do.

We might try to remember that in the discussion.

These three people are faced with a great difficulty in which all are winners and all are losers. All are guilty and all are innocent. This great difficulty will not resolved by debate and vote. In the end the questions will be more important than the answers.

Selecting just one question: should Pravas and D have no contact? I don't know for sure, but I do know this -- not having contact would allow both of them to idealize the relationship and could, in fact, be more harmful than good.

I think they've come here in part so we can help them find the questions and look at things from many sides... people will of course bring their beliefs and biases to the discussion. But our way is not and should not be their way.

lovelydianita,

I hope you don't think MY comments were the "sarcastic" ones?

If so let me be more direct in my post so you can better understand that I was not judging nor joking.

IF both you AND Pravas come here ~claiming~ to have stopped all contact with each other...............Then this only means Ageless has become your 'Secret' meeting spot. Even IF its not at the same times your STILL hanging on his shirt-tails.

Again for this to be a TRUELY open and fair thread Mrs Pravas should be a member and be reading/posting here as well. My personal opinion is I think the marriage counsler should also be included. Because personally I think you both might be burning the EDIT buttons off your postings at that point.
There! THAT was sarcastic :D But true most likely...LOL

Wow, I'm actually shocked at the responses here. I have been a member of Ageless since last November. I have seen a few posts here along the same lines as this and in the past everyone seems to have gotten through them by giving sane and rational advice. At present, with the "older posters" (no offense) that I see here, once again, Wallypop reins in his pleasant mannered yet truthful posts. His advice is that to take into consideration.

Otherwise, it seems as though we once again we cast the first stone at those who don't fit into the "perfect" scheme of things.

Although Pravas and D are both on this board (and same post) expressing their feelings indirectly to one another, they are looking for HELP. Maybe just the mere fact of their own words being reread by themselves or each other will answer many questions that go unanswered at this point.

It just blows my mind that we all belong to a "relationship site that offers advice" then at first chance we take them in the alley and beat them.

I've known crippled men with more balls!


Awwww, thanks Polly. I like you too!

I'm going to add one last post to this thread...


Best news I've heard all day. Now please live up to your promise.

To the rest of you, I hope you can forgive me for that little flame, but I don't think I've ever been more justified. Polly acts like she's been an intimate observer of my relationship with my wife for the past 20 years and that she knows exactly what my wife is feeling and what we should do with our marriage. Call me defensive if you like, but sanctimonious posters bother me, and Polly is the height of sanctimony. There!

IF both you AND Pravas come here ~claiming~ to have stopped all contact with each other...............Then this only means Ageless has become your 'Secret' meeting spot. Even IF its not at the same times your STILL hanging on his shirt-tails.


If I'm posting and D is reading, there's no problem. I'm the one who shouldn't have contact with her because the decision about the fate of my marriage is mine to make; it doesn't matter if she reads here what's going on with me. Maybe it gives her something to hang onto, maybe it's just torture, but that kind of one-sided communication is irrelevant.

It is relevant that she has now posted here and I'm still around. You're absolutely right about that, HappyPappy. So, here's what I'm doing about it:

D, I ask you to stop posting here until this is resolved. I think your input has helped, but let's cut it off here.

Also, I'm going to print out the whole thread and take it to my wife to read. (She has a low tolerance for computers.) Maybe she'll post here as a result.

Because personally I think you both might be burning the EDIT buttons off your postings at that point. There! THAT was sarcastic But true most likely


Yes, it's natural to be skeptical and believe the worst of people. I do it too. In this case, it's also wrong. I'm editing nothing, and I'm printing it out so that if D edits her posts later, it won't matter.

I think those who have read and understood my posts know that I wouldn't resort to changing things before letting my wife see them.

There's a lot of other stuff that's bothered me in some recent replies, but I'm going to let them slide. Basically, though, they all hinge on assumptions that other people are making about the situation, assumptions that happen not to be true.

Thanks to Wallypop, Shaddup, CeeJay, and Hopeful for your helpful comments. (If you take that to mean that I don't consider the comments of others, then perhaps you should examine your biases. (Dang, I'm feeling ornery and defensive today, ain't I?))

Wow this thread has certainly turned ugly.

The fact of the issue here is that there is a problem in the marriage of Pravas and his wife. Obviously problems that existed long before "d" entered the picture. Sometimes in life we try sooo hard to hold onto things instead of letting go and sufficate and exhaust the life out of our relationships because we hang on too hard. Sometimes you just have to let go and see if things will work. Pravas and wife should try counseling and if both feel it won't work or even if one does, then really, there is no where to go with it? I know the religious bent and sanctity of marriage and what responsibilites it holds. We must remember however the reasoning BEHIND marriage and relationships. When we stop serving our partners, we stop loving our partners. As someone so vividly pointed out once, it is not infidelity(and by this I dont always mean sex) that causes the distruction of a relationship is it the indication of a problem within the relationship.

One thing I can say is that I respect the fact that pravas and "d" have come here to ask for advice from others. But the age gap is not the reasoning behind any of what has been said here, age gap aside this is an issue of relationships.

-Pravas get counseling with your wife. If it doesn't work you must decide whether or not you can continue with your marriage. It doesn't do anyone any good and you aren't doing your wife any favors by staying in a lifeless relationship. You will be robbing each other of any happiness.
-D needs to continue her life. Grow and live. You are young. Experience life. Find out and grasp everything you can. Learn.
-As for the relationship between D and Pravas in the future that is for them to decide after the above has been done. Heck maybe it could work? We cannot pretend to foretell the future.

Pravas I think you know what to do. Why would you have your wife come here? More than that why would we want to get involved? Advice is one thing, biased counseling is another.

-Nibbles

When I came here, in January of 2000 (although my profile says otherwise) this site was 400 strong. It was married couples of ow/ym talking about their issues. Live-in couples were discouraged. Dating ow/ym couples were even more discouraged. The site has changed a lot. In some aspects, it needed to. For instance, om/yw needed to be included. But with the expansion and growth of the site came more and more unmoralistic circumstances. Yes, this is a support site for AGRs, but first, it should be a legitimate AGR before it is supported. An AGR that is harmful or hurtful for some reason or another will not receive support from the majority of the members.

yes, the site has changed in almost 7 years...all things do Polly ( that was/is my gramma's name btw :) ) but to say that with the growth came more and more unmoralistic circumstances i don't see.

7 years ago, not as many people had internet access, 7 years ago, agr's were even MORE "taboo", for lack of a better word.....i for one think we have fantastic members here. we have the occasional questionable member/poster...but perhaps it only seems like 'more and more' because our members now number well over 10,000 NOW as opposed to a few hundred THEN? and now, as then, not all participate.

i'm sorry Polly but without you excluding me from this sweeping statement, by name, i'm a wee bit offended.

and the crux of it is, agr's ARE harmful and/or hurtful to SOMEONE, else no need for an agr support site, yes? whether it be either partner, family, friends, acquaintances.....odds are, someone's going to get their feathers ruffled.

and what's your definition of a 'legitimate' agr? one in which the couple is married? gotta date first unless it's an arranged marriage...i don't get that statement, Polly.

not to seem as tho i'm busting your chops gal, i just believe that the members here, myself included, respectfully deserve some clearing up of this paragraph. :)

Also, I'm going to print out the whole thread and take it to my wife to read. (She has a low tolerance for computers.) Maybe she'll post here as a result.

I always thought there were two sides to every story but apparently there are three? :confused: Also, "overlapping relationships" is a stroke of marketing genius--just like no car dealer worth his salt would ever put an ad for "used cars" instead of "preowned automobiles". lol ;)

Hello,

First, i would like to warn you that my opinions are often found to upset people who are new to them.
Second, i wish to declare my "prior knowledge" of the situation, as i have considered D to be a friend (although for a short period of time so far) and have discussed the situation with her prior to reading this thread.

Now, here is what i actually think:
1. Age is but a number, D is a very mature person and that is all that should matter in relation to that.
2. Marriage means absolutely nothing (i actually disagree with D on that one, but to her own benefit). All it reffers to is that Pravas's current wife has gotten to him first, and unless we see him as a first-come first-serve buffet it shouldn't even enter the discussion.

Pravas, i would recommend the whole pros and cons list, but please don't include the past in that list... rather think about the present, after all this is the only time that actually exists, everything else is but our imagination.

Free your mind and seek the truth.
- Volodya

2. Marriage means absolutely nothing (i actually disagree with D on that one, but to her own benefit). All it reffers to is that Pravas's current wife has gotten to him first, and unless we see him as a first-come first-serve buffet it shouldn't even enter the discussion.

Can someone please translate this for me because my english is not the best. :confused: Are you saying that overlapping relationships are ok because Pravis is not a first-come first-serve buffet but more like a sit-down dinner with an early seating and a late seating and Mrs. P's time is up? :eek: lolololol

I won't attempt to explain another's words... but I sense that Ethical is effectively raising this question: at what point is a marriage a marriage -- and at what point is it not? If the argument is going to be that the marriage is sacred... that anything that threatens that marriage is "wrong," then you have to back up and define the marriage.

Should a marriage represent the relationship or vice versa? It sometimes seems that there's some unwritten rule that once a marriage is formed that marriage is the basis of the relationship and there are certain rules of marriage that are to be rules of relationships. "Phew, I don't have to worry about the relationship... he/she can't cheat on me now that we are married. It would be wrong."

I've suggested before, that's putting the cart before the horse. If people worried less about what is right and what is wrong within the confines of marriage and worried more about the relationship that the marriage is supposed to represent...

Forget about whether or not "overlapping relationships" are "okay" and recognize that they are a reality - a reality that must be dealt with.

We're great at passing laws and deluding ourselves into believing that we are now safe because the law protects us. I'll bet if you study the codes and statutes you'll discover there are lot more laws regarding divorce than there are regarding marriage.

Maslow said, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail."

I just want to thank you, Wallypop, for so generously sharing your incredibly deep and wise insight with all of us.
Your posts are, I think, the most thoughtful and thought-provoking in this thread.
Please keep up the good work :)
- D

Oh ok thanks for explaining Wally. I was confused there for a second. lol :) And D, you are right about Wally--he is a very deep and wise soul and I think everyone at Ageless is lucky that he takes his time to share his wisdom and insights with us, especially since some of the people here are really rrude? :confused: :(

Hi Pravas,

I think you're handling things well so far, and I commend you for being honest with your wife and also taking time out to think things through. I can see how hard a decision this must be. You and your wife are facing losing half of your worldly possessions each, as well as a life you spent 20 years creating. You personally may lose even more if you divorce because of another woman, if you're not careful. Its all definately worth thinking twice about!

I dunno, is this the first mutual attraction you've experienced with someone apart from your wife? Perhaps some of the confusion is due to simple lack of experience with handling `lustful feelings' for other women?.

Perhaps others feel differently, but I think its pretty normal to experience lustful feelings for other people at some point over the course of a long term relatonships, especially if you're open and friendly, and love people.

For me, its been important & meaningful part of my growth to recognise that there are many ways to handle feelings of lust and infatuation when they come up from time to time. Most people seem to immediately blame their partner's faults for these feelings, or overplay the issues in the relationship, but usually the truth is simpler than that....there just happens to be more than one attractive person in the world (to us), and somehow all of us in long term relationships have to decide how to deal with those attractions.

I can't tell you how to deal with your feelings for D; she sounds like an intelligent and fine girl who behaved very seductively during her stay as a guest in your home. I think your feelings of attraction and confusion are normal and natural.

But you don't have to throw away your marriage and half of your worldly possession over an infatuation. It will fade, if you let it. They always do, no matter how strong those feelings are in the beginning. And try not to blame your wife for these feelings; its a natural urge because it deflects guilt....but its not really about her. If your relationship was sooo painfully bad, you wouldn't have stayed for 20 years, now would you?

ANyhow, all the best to you. I feel for you; lust is such a POWERFUL feeling which clouds things. But i think you're smart enough to get through it..i really do!

Oh ok thanks for explaining Wally. I was confused there for a second. lol :) And D, you are right about Wally--he is a very deep and wise soul and I think everyone at Ageless is lucky that he takes his time to share his wisdom and insights with us, especially since some of the people here are really rrude? :confused: :(


*hands in pockets, looking down, kicking dirt*

Aww, shucks, guys...

But thanks! LOL

I'll try to explain what i was saying in the previous post. Basically, the only reason why pravas is married to the person he's currently with is due to the chronology, i.e. his wife found him first. Lovelydianita didn't have a chance, since she was still not born at the time, so she has "missed the train". My argument was that past is in the past, and what needs to be discussed here is the present situation. In present we have two individuals who love each other, but due to their belief in marriage as something sacred they are having problems. Whatever solution exists out there, it must begin with accepting these facts, if we go around talking about who married who in the past the present situation will only get worse.

Now, i really don't know what the two individuals involved in this should do. I don't understand the whole "marriage is something special" attitude, and because of that any suggestion i will give will be too damn flawed to be workable for this couple.

Lovelydianita didn't have a chance, since she was still not born at the time, so she has "missed the train".

Depending on your values, marriage is about `forsaking all others', so noone missed any trains......the couple stopped being single people and entered into a committed relationship.

My argument was that past is in the past, and what needs to be discussed here is the present situation. In present we have two individuals who love each other, but due to their belief in marriage as something sacred they are having problems.

If you're referring to Pravas and D, well its not love, its `infatuation'. Infatuation is a powerful, engulfing feeling which many inexpereinced people mistake for love, or falling out of love with their partner etc. More experienced people just accept it for what it is, let it go, and honor their existing commitments...because THEY'RE MARRIED.

Whatever solution exists out there, it must begin with accepting these facts, if we go around talking about who married who in the past the present situation will only get worse.

Look, infatuation is very common...moreso if you work around or interact with attractive people all the time, and you have any kind of charisma yourself. You learn to handle it, and see it for what it is....it doesn't have to be a threat to your existing realtionship and you don't have to throw your life away over it. Its all part of character development and maturity.

My take on the situation is Pravis is pretty isolated and just isn't used to being around attractive women who like him. He doesn't know how to put up the appropriate boundaries, and he's defiantely not alone. Infatuation is not particularly easy to deal with....all I'm saying is that its a life skill that can be learned (hopefully without making a horrible mistake first)

I worked for the last 3 years at a university, in tutoring role where it was permissbale to date the students. If I had thrown away my relationship each time an attractive, wonderful guy who I might date if i were single, gave me loads of attention and behaved seductively, I'd be separated ten times over.

Infatuations pass. After a while you start to see the real person, and personality conflicts emerge etc. If the person is really nice, then maybe they can make a really nice friend?

Well said, Bella_D :)

Well said, Bella_D :)

I agree... great post Bella!! :)

Pravas,

Personally I think you are to emotionally unstable to make any kind of permanant decision right now. You've expressed you feel bad thinking of leaving your wife and you feel bad thinking of staying with her. You can't make up your mind. While I understand D would like to get to know you better, she really needs to respect you and leave you alone at this time.

Now, if things don't work out between you and your wife, you might be thinking well I'll just go after D and things will be all wonderful. I hate to disappoint you but you are wrong. You will have issues that you need to deal with if you decide to leave your wife. I've read many sites that tell you you shouldn't date until it's been at least six months since you've divorced. The reason why is because you will be dealing with a lot of emotions. Even if you are the one ending the relationship, you will still have a lot of hard times to work through. Believe me. Ask anyone who's been divorced whether it was begun by them or their ex-spouse. It's an emotional rollercoaster.

It might be that you are dealing with the fact that what you thought you had in your marriage isn't what you wanted after all. Sometimes people have that kind of wakeup call. And while I think that the counseling is a great idea, I still believe you need to stop thinking about D while you get your head straight. And as hard as it is for her, she needs to give you the space to do just that.

You will probably do a lot of soul searching and a lot of changing over the next few months. In the end, you might end up being a completely different person. I think D just woke you up to the realization that something was missing in your life. But breaking off with your wife just to go out with D isn't going to make things any better for you. What if it doesn't work out with D? Then what will you do?

And I just wanted to add for D, do you really want to be the rebound girl? The majority of relationships that begin as extra-marital affairs don't work out. Give him time to get his head on straight or you might be headed for heartache. If he leaves his wife, and you are out of the picture, no one can blame you for being a homewrecker. If he divorces, give him space to deal with his emotions and then see if something can be started up between the two of you. If he stays with his wife, then do the right thing, respect their wishes, and leave them be.

I don't remember exactly how that Dave Rovick's song goes, but if a person likes champagn it doesn't mean that an should obstain from beer. Let's face it, social norm is not monogomy, but rather cheating and lying about it. Pravos has actually proven to be a very honest person, because he did what he thought was right and talked to his wife... that is not normal, usually people would lie about their emotions even to themselves.

I disagree with both P and D on the issue of the marriage. I don't see it as anything sacred at all. The only marriage costom that i've found which has at least some sense in it is the idea where 2 persons marry for 1 year and 1 day... if they still love each other they can remarry every year+day, if they don't, there is no divorse that must be gone through. This way marriage is actually a sign of love and faithfulness, and not a farse that current northwestern society made it where people marry because it's easier to do taxes this way...

My apologies to Pravos and Lovelydiana for going off their intended topic, but i was just getting fed up with the things that people are saying here.

My apologies to Pravos and Lovelydiana for going off their intended topic, but i was just getting fed up with the things that people are saying here.

I'm sorry you feel that way.... but unfortunatly in a site of this size and with all different people we need to expect different opinions and views.....its just how the OP decides to take the feedback.. You take what you want and leave what you don't....

If something is offensive towards you or another please feel free and PM me anytime :)

Advice to anyone in (or contemplating) an extra-marital affair or leaving your spouse for a YM/YW:

If you want advice on the age gap, leave out the fact that you are married! It will only get you into a big debate about affairs and such.

My further advice to you both is to quit this site, rejoin under new names and ask whatever advice about age gaps you had.

Otherwise, go to a site that can give advice about how to handle your other situation. This is definitely not the place for support for it. All you are going to get is opinions - not support or advice - because people can't see past the fact that it would be breaking up a marriage or whatnot. (In spite of the fact that nothing sexual ever happened and you nipped it in the bud and you are just trying to deal with the feeling and fallout, you saw what happened here.)

But you shouldn't expect people here to look past the fact that there is a marriage here and just focus on the age gap part.

By the way, was there even an age gap question? :confused:

By the way, was there even an age gap question?
The very first paragraph, of the very first post starts:
I'm [...] trying to understand what's happening with this young woman who recently came into my life.
Pravas asked what was going on with D and how should he see her actions. However, people have mostly ignored that one, and went on telling both that they aren't in love or that divorse is a sin...

Oh brother.

Here we go again.

The very first paragraph, of the very first post starts:

Pravas asked what was going on with D and how should he see her actions. However, people have mostly ignored that one, and went on telling both that they aren't in love or that divorse is a sin...


I didn't see where anyone said that divorce is a sin...

IMHO I do feel that one relationship should be ended before another one starts...... I dont' feel that cheating whether your married or committed is right... HOWEVER it happens and for whatever reasons but it's how you handle it and fix the situation...... Pravas needs to figure out what he wants.. whether it's fix things with his wife or not.. and D should give him the space to do so ...... If he wants to get backw ith his wife and do the couseling then D should respect that and step back... HOWEVER it's ok if he really loves D and wants to be with her ... but he needs to handle his marriage first....

If you want advice on the age gap, leave out the fact that you are married!

Is this Ageless's don't ask, don't tell policy? :confused: lol

ya'll ain't gonna like me, but i've had pm's and reported posts on this thread and i gotta cook dinner :p

so i'm locking it til i feed and water all my lil chickens. THEN i can read it

i'm re-opening this thread.

Please be polite.

Clean up in aisle 3.

:p

I think I was "romantically in love" with her, to a degree. I think at the time I thought that the love I had for her was stronger than it really was, I hope you don't end up saying this about this new relationship 5 years or so down the road. You don't seem to know what real love is. Are you exploring that with your therapist?

I admire your courage and integrity in telling your wife what was going on. I hope you do share with her the conversations of this thread and the fact that the YW has also posted here.

What ever the outcome, honesty is the key to finding out more about each other. I hope your wife can be honest as well and open to hearing your heart's hurts and needs. Good luck & take care.

Actually I think Kristin is attempting to communicate something to you about the community here and actually trying to help you avoid some of the flame pitfalls here.

Here's a rather dismal thing I noted when reading this thread, which is completely off topic and feel free to mod away, the OW brought a ton of unwanted drama to this thread. /sad The members of this part of the board I read and found to be the least judgemental and insulting. I realize that in itself is a judgement. I wounder why we are such drama lovers and why we need to travel out of our own drama infested forums (Relationship Support) and bring it here. Shouldn't we be a little embarassed? The supposed YW (I say supposed because we should at least attempt to remember that YW YM OW OM are relative terms to the age of your partner and NOT each other... lots of YW over here are actually older than me) read so supportive with little or NO condecending tone *EVEN* when they are posting their encouragement of OP's marriage. We could certainly take a lesson there.

I sure wish that what Kristin said was not true. I wish that you could post at AL and find folks responding to you in thoughtful, kind, encouraging ways (I'll note here that encouraging doesn't necessarily mean agreeing... it might mean encouraging you to do the "right" thing... though personally I think it is pretty presumptive of *anyone* to declare the "right" thing for another person let alone a stranger). Unfortunately, as Mer said, that ain't the case. You are gonna get the bad and the ugly and you have to take the good that speaks to you and ignore the rest. It is not an easy thing to do at all. I'