Nice Guys

Hi Everyone and Happy New Year!

This is going to be pretty loaded, but here it goes:

What are your thoughts on nice guys, everyone? Why is it that they finish last? For you OW who prefer "bad boys" to "nice guys", why is this the case? Are nice guys just too nice?

I told you all it was loaded LOL! Let me see your responses, everyone.

I like nice guys, have always despised bad guys. I like shy, delicate, polite and humble people. Can't stand guys that love to flirt and fooll around. I take a special pleasure on being a bad girl with them, just to compare tricks and seducing power http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies/1041289817.gif.
I am almost a bad guy myself...http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies/1039607312.gif

I am definitely an equal opportunity woman ... ha ha. Truly I am!

But I will admit, when I run into one of those men that looks at me with that look and purposefully touches my hand or leg in common conversation for connection ... and when he receives the expected accepting smile perhaps asks for a dance ... then slowly slips his arm around my waist and draws me in-to-him (not crushing me mind you, but ever so slowly (whew, is it getting hot in here???) ... and finally gets to the point of "takes me" (not necessarily sexually mind you, not necessarily not ha ha) ... Well, I just get limp all over :). Yes, there is something to be said for the bad boy.

But on the other hand, I can also be taken by a man's mind (actually the most attractive attribute of a man to me - truth). I can easily fall for a nice guy, with a great brain, healthy humor and sharp wit. It's very special to be with a sweet, stable, regular, dependable, and caring man. These and other like qualities are important to me. Of course, as I continue to admire his mind, I'm also beginning to notice other things about him ... pouty lips ... the way he lisps, anything that is ...well, physical :). Of course, nice or bad, they can look good coming and going :) Additionally, if he has a anything in the creative realm, I can really be pretty much gone ... And, I believe that just about creative side - writing, painting, composing ... pretty much every woman would agree that when a man can share real feelings in a real and honest manner (show and share their little boy with us)... we melt easily into their arms .... oh so easily :)

My final evaluation is ............. that it's much more about chemistry for me than it is bad boy / nice guy stuff. Chemistry does it every time :D

Princessdy

Just plain and simple me:
Don't bypass the nice guys, you will regret it later.
Torture yourself all you want with the bad guys if it makes you happy for the moment.
I quarantee one day you will kick yourself in the *** for the nice guy you bypassed.


Just my 2 cents :)

I NEVER want a bad boy again!!!! My ex was a bad boy (along with being my high school sweetheart). And he is STILL a bad boy some twentysomething years later. Also notice, he is my EX!!!! I think the thing for me was that I thought I could "tame" him...change him with my love. I also thought he'd outgrow all those nasty little habits like getting drunk every weekend. And yeah, at first it was somewhat amusing, but after years of him STILL getting drunk every weekend (and during the week as well), dragging him out of bars (or sometimes leaving him there :eek: ) the newness wore off in a HURRY!! Guess what? He didnt outgrow the drinking, he graduated to drugs and abuse and I finally divorced him. It took me a LONG time to even trust men again, but I swear I'll never want a bad boy again!! They just arent worth it!! And yeah, nice guys might be reliable and predictable - but UNreliable and UNpredictable just dont do it for me. In fact, I think being a nice, sweet, caring, thoughtful, romantic guy is just plain hot!!;) Just my little old opinion.

Good topic awhi!!

Southerngal

PS - MARIA!!!!! A LITTLE SMILIE DOMINATRIX!!!!!! HOW CUTE LOL!!

What Dyan said! Whew... it was hot in here!!!! No wonder the same type of guys interest us, girlfriend! But if I had the choice, NICE would win for the long term relationship, for nice means remembering birthdays and anniversaries;sharing responsibilites; sharing a laugh; being a considerate lover; calling when going to be late; making sure my car is running ok and filling it up when he borrows it; writing love notes and tucking them in inconspicuous places; taking care of me and telling me mhe loves me when I am sick and looking like hell; sending flowers to me at work; and (yes Billy Jim), letting me have the refrigerator I want!

I want what everyone says all rolled up into one hot young man ... Jules, Linda ... you two ... ;)

Can i have that ladies ??? Can I ??? Can I ???

Princessdy

PS Sorry, couldn't hep myself ...

Interesting and accurate opinions from the other members as always.

However there is another school of thought as to why nice guys --as the saying goes -- finish last. In a nutshell it says that there are essentially two kinds of nice guys; one is the genuinely nice guy whose sincerity, thoughtfullness and kindness is just that -- then there's another kind of "nice guy" and the consensus among a lot of women who've had experience with this latter variety is that they are to be avoided like the plague because...well...let's just say there is such a thing as being too nice. For those that might be interested, I'm providing a link to another site that discusses this in much more detail but be forewarned: this is a site that's the total antithesis of what ageless is: jaded, cynical, and sometimes bluntly rude, (the name of the URL just about says it all) though sometimes humourous in dark and cathartic sort of way. In fact before I posted this, I was debating wether or not it was appropriate. But I've decided to because in spite of its bitter and cynical tone, there is I think something usefull and informative to be salvaged in the way it takes a look at *some* nice guys. Read at your own peril:(

http://www.heartless-bi**hes.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml


Edit note: Oh yeah, I forgot that this board has software to 'censor' profane words like the one that appears in this URL, so you may either have to type it in manually in your browser or cut and paste it in and then..uh... 'fill in the blanks' there. so to speak. In the unlikely event that you didn't already know this: the blanks are the letters 't' and 'c' (in that order) where the two asteriks are. And the words after '.com' are 'rants/niceguys/ng.shtml' which I see was partly obliterated as well, though exactly why I don't know :confused:

When I saw the title of this thread, I immediately thought of the article that Niall mentions. Heartless B does says that the site is a satire, but it hits some real sore spots.

I was married to a "nice guy" -- hardworking, steady, dependable to the outside world -- but he treated me badly. Friends recognized the emotional abuse long before I did -- there's a great article about that on Heartless B as well. His "niceness" made me doubt myself when I felt things were wrong because I'm not all that "nice." (I passed the Heartless B test!) But I finally woke up. Now I'm with one of those "funny motorcycle riding hippies" and he treats me like a goddess -- respectful, attentive, and loving. Those external cues do not always show the man inside.

I vote with Arachne. There's a difference between appearances and realities. My husband (deceased) wore alot of leather, talked tough, rode a motorcycle, looked like a bad boy, but cried at movies, treated me like a princess, and probably had the softest heart of any man I've known well. Sure his outside was sexy, but it was the insides that made me hang around.

Current younger man boyfriend looks like a preppie and is polite to everyone no matter how big an idiot he thinks they are, but plots vicious mayhem (the meanest practical joker I ever met), takes enormous risks in his personal life and an abiding interest (just literary) in the lives of sucessful criminals. Again, the outside doesn't reflect the inside. I like these contrasts in people, makes them interesting.

And better a bad outside with a nice inside, then ummmm... the other way around. :>

My sweetie is just that, a big sweetie, the nicest guy I've ever known.
After being married to a "bad boy", and dating nothing but bad boys in my youth, I was finally ready for a "nice guy". And let me tell you, he's definitely finishing 1st!!
I've never been happier or treated so great!
But it'st interesting, because while some of my single girl friends think he's sweet, they tell me that they still find themselves attracted to the "bad boys". They also tell me that it's just more exiting to be with a bad boy. And I don't mean like a super bad boy, just someone whose a little rough around the edges.
So, in conclusion, I'm glad I met a nice guy, and I think nice guys deserve more praise!
My advice to the nice guys, don't change, there are plenty of people who appreciate you.

This is a GREAT thread!:) NICE GUYS FINISH FIRST WITH OLDER WOMEN! Older women already made the mistake of being with bad boys when they were younger, and appreciate the nice guys completely! Like SG, my ex-husband was a very bad boy, and very cute (Oh, and he totally KNEW IT)! Being young and stupid, I thought "Oooooohh! A challenge! I can CHANGE HIM, because I'M ALL THAT!" Not only was I terribly wrong, but I have two children by him now (glad for the kids, sorry they have such a lame dad).

Still, I'm always attracted to the types that seem a little different, marching to the beat of a different drum. Enter Robin. He looks like Satan (long, dark hair, goatee, biker jacket and boots) but is really kind of a nerd in a way. He's organized to the point of being ANAL, punctual, trustworthy, always respectful, hardworking, and yep, pretty predictable. Actually, after the unpredictability I had to endure with my ex, I decided predictability was a pretty nice trait! I also discovered that nice guys are REALLY good in bed! That's where he's UNPREDICTABLE!:) If Robin and I ever broke up, I'd definitely date a nice guy. Hey, I also like cute guys that wear glasses. Something about glasses makes me melt! I love smart guys, and glasses just makes them look smarter!:)

Me, I was probably a bad girl in my twenties. I remember a young doctor, glasses, kind of nerdy but kind of cute too, and very nice, asked me out for dinner once, and I passed him over for a guitar player! The guitar player ended up being a LOSER (what a surprise!) and I forever regretted not giving the young doctor a chance. Now I'm forty, I'm a very nice girl, and I like it a whole lot better. I care about everybody, I try to put others first, I'm a lot less self-absorbed than I used to be, I'm more into giving than receiving, and nice guys like my "bad girl" appearance but my "nice girl" attitude.

It used to be that I never had interest in "nice guys." After going through many, many years of emotional abuse, I now appreciate "nice guys." The guy that I am married to is the sweetest, kindest man. He treats me like a princess 24/7! Several years ago, I wouldn't have had a speck of interest. I'd have gotten super bored by now. I am loving my life! I am happy being treated so sweetly all the time. Boy, have I changed! My ex was so *intense* that my current husband could never, ever bore me in a million years. I had enough excitement with my ex-husband and former boyfriends to last me a lifetime.

We tend to look at the whole nice guy/bad boy situation as something that is in black and white, and as with anything else, it's all shades of gray.

My platonic guy friends tend to be the bad boy type, wouldn't date their kind in a million years, but they are a lot fun to hang out with. One rule I've got, never get too friendly with their girlfriends, not only do they tend to be temporary, but they also try to get me to take their side or give them information. These bad boy types also tend to be very confused as to why their relationships don't work out. Duh.

I prefer nice guys for relationships, but even with them you have to be careful because some of them can be very needy/clingy, and will carry the torch long after the flame has gone out. I also avoid the ones with that "I'm a nice guy and women should really want me because I'm better than the bad boys they complain about' attitude, because it's very negative, and nobody likes negativity.

I prefer someone who is more the middle of the road, like I am. Clingons drive me away, but so do the aggressive bad boys.

Anyone else prefer the middle path?

Originally posted by Julianne
I was joking about looks.... looks don't say a thing about someones heart and soul, intelligence or how kind they are.


Can I get an "Amen"?

Some of the most beautiful people can be found in the generic aisle, wrapped in plain packaging. And some of the ugliest can be found wrapped in bright, shiny sexy packaging.

The physical aspect of a person is only packaging, and not until you unwrap the package and find out what is inside do you know what you've really gotten.

And never be fooled by 'new and improved' or '50% more free'.

I tend to like the nice guy who has some edge to him - likes unusual things (sports, music, etc). I like a guy who will communicate, look after me but at the same time not overwhelm me. I want a guy who will challenge me intellectually, emotionally (at times), etc, but who will take my feelings into consideration. Perhaps I'll find the right one someday! :)

I'll take a "nice" guy .Life is sooooo much better without all the drama and turmoil.nice guys are great,but in a relationship,it really should be a nice guy you are attracted to .I could not have started a relationship with a guy just because he was nice,it wouldn't have been fair .luckily I found a nice one who is really cute and sexy too.

You're so funny ... but I agree a nice guy with a bad boy edge is good ... or a bad boy with a nerdy intelligent edge would be interesting ... or gosh gezzzzz ... something like that.

I still say though, chemistry does it for me ... either way ... it usually just ... fits, and fits just ... right :D

Your prince is on his way ... Grow that hair girl ... you may have to let it down ... ha, ha.

Princessdy

Mark Darcy in both Pride and Prejudice and also in Bridget Jones...perfect nice guy that makes me swoon.

Leopold in Kate and Leopold, perfect nice guy that makes
me swoon.

*Sigh*

I think there's nothing wrong with wanting a guy who has a little bit of an edge. I started this thread because I am a nice guy and I wanted honest opinions. You all put together your opinions and we have a great conversation going.

I truly like to think I have somewhat of an edge, too. I'm not bad, because I'm not going to treat any woman like dirt...my sense of honor prevents me from doing it. Women just have to give me some time to warm up. When I get comfortable around you, I'll take some healthy risks and get edgier -- sexier.

I'm slow to warm, but when I warm up, I'm on fire!

This whole nice guy/bad boy thing. I guess I qualify as I nice guy. But I'm no doormat. I think that is the trap that "nice" guys can fall into. For me, I strive to be authentic. But it does suck being a nice guy, because it seems that there are alot of women who get attracted to that "bad guy". But I beleive that for guys, a balance can be struck. I wonder if the illusion of the bad guy is that somehow he is free. Maybe strong enough to speak his mind on some things, and possibly put up a false front that he does this on all fronts. The nice guy is just too nice. Doting on her every move, doing all of the right "date' things, maybe he is sensitive to alot of things, but is sort of a dope when it comes down to having a backbone. I don't really know. What do you think?

[[Big Dougie]I guess I qualify as I nice guy. But I'm no doormat.[/QUOTE]

Nice guys don't need to be doormat's.My husband is a "nice guy",but not even close to a doormat.

[Big dougie]But it does suck being a nice guy, because it seems that there are alot of women who get attracted to that "bad guy". [/QUOTE]

well in that case I would suggest finding woman who are attracted to a nice guy,instead of the kind that want the "bad boy" drama.

I met alot of nice guys,but that does not mean I was attracted to all of them just because they were nice.I wanted a nice one that I was attracted to.sometimes it takes someone a while to notice someone too.


[big dougie]The nice guy is just too nice. Doting on her every move, doing all of the right "date' things, maybe he is sensitive to alot of things, but is sort of a dope when it comes down to having a backbone. [/QUOTE]


well I'm sure there is such a thing as being too nice,and if the guy that is too nice gets hooked up with the wrong woman ,he could really be taken advantage of.
I may like nice guys,but I really need to have one that has a backbone.....which,lucky for me, my husband has.

all in all nice guys just treat their woman good,have a kind heart,and seem to really not finish last in the long run.


[Big Dougie]I don't really know. What do you think?[/QUOTE]

well thats what I think anyway.so if your a nice guy,just stay one.it will be a good thing in the long run.....thats not to say let someone take advantage of you, or let someone walk all over you.thats not being a nice guy,thats a guy (or woman for that matter)that has self esteem issues.

Hello awhi,

I've heard all that before, too. Well, for the most part, the truth is that dumb people go after bad people (or if they're not just plain dumb, then perhaps they enjoy being a doormat). At any rate, do you really want to be a part of that?

I have as big a messiah complex as (almost) anyone, and yet, I'm certainly not going to bring myself down by wasting time and energy trying to transform a jerk. Why? Because I'm smart.

For the record: Nice guys are a wonderful and precious gift to society, and I, for one, love them.

God bless good men!!!!

I'm no expert, but have had some therapy over the years and read some books on codependency, and adult children of alcoholics. Would like to present another view on this subject.

For me personally, I cannot count the number of nice guys I passed up as a young single person. If they doted on me too quickly, I ran like the wind. In retrospect, I've learned that for me, and probably alot of people out there, we tend to run on autopilot and base our choices in partners on subconcious need to either fix something undone from our childhood...... or just be in something that is "comfortable for us", even if it's abuse.

I ended up marrying a man that gave me all the comforts of home as a child, and it took me a long time to figure out what I was doing. He was controlling, angry, manipulative, judgmental, and emotionally abusive and unavailable. Well, all I can say is I will not be travelling that path again!!!

Maybe some people haven't the insight to see this in their lives and pass up "the nice guy OR nice girl" because of these unresolved, unrecognized issues to recreate their childhood. Maybe I'm totally off base, but thought I'd throw that out there for debate.

As for me now, I've grown to love myself enough that I will be striving to "reprogram my brain" so that when "a nice guy" comes along and dotes on me........... I will appreciate him, because I finally feel I deserve it.

Thoughts??

My theory on this is that it is not that women, of any age, don't like nice guys. I don't think that just because you are a nice guy means you finish last. However I do feel that nice guys typically finish last because a quality that typically goes with nice guys is "puppy dog", and easily walked all over. That is not an attractive quality for men nor women. As a man, the thought of a woman being unchallenging, wimpy, etc. doesn't encourage me to pursue her, and I feel women are the same way. Instinctively we gravitate towards the strongest mate in order to propagate our species. That is just built into us by nature. Wolves don't mate with the weak of the species, they don't mate with the dog who can't run, or can't bark, they mate with the "top dog". Does that mean a man needs to be mean or aggressive to assert his dominance over every other man? No I don't think so, quite the contrary I think that there is a balance to be had between nice and assertive. And more over I think that balance between two opposites provides us with the greatest amount of health, and gives us that top dog status instantly.
Women want to be protected and feel a security, and feel that the man they are with can take care of them. Wrap her in his arms and keep her from the dangers of the world.
It is human nature. I also would tend to agree that on the average YW can't totally appreciate a nice guy in general. Not because they don't like them, but because they aren't sure exactly what they want. They think they want the tough bad boy, and it isn't until they have been with a few bad boys that they realize the tough bad boys are usually jerks as well , and are the worst thing for them. OW understand this in most cases, and can appreciate a more balanced and nice guy. Any thoughts on this ladies?

I agree with polly.
HIP- HIP -HORAYYYYYY

nice guys are GREAT when you realize you are NO longer a drama addict....and that it's just a waste of time,and that life can be really good and that you want to kick yourself in the *** for all the wasted time that you can NEVER get back...then you realize it made you who you are and figure it was ok,but you still wasted alot of time with the wrong person....yep,nice guys are cool:)

^ So totally true!

Well aren't you lot a unique cache of gems! :)

Seems though that MOST women thrive on drama, and need excitement. Being dependable isn't always exciting.

I'm getting crustier as I get older, but really at heart I'm a romantic. One day my ship will come in.

Dang it!! I had a really nice post on here praising nice guys and telling them not to ever turn into bad boys to get a woman -- and now its gone!!!!!

Southerngal

Don't worry, southerngal, I know how you feel about YM and nice guys.

In my twenties as a so-called 'nice guy', women weren't interested at all, girls were.


Now I'm 33, I'm still the 'nice guy'. But the pressures for me are less than they were 10 years ago.


My ex, who liked to be dominant sometimes, always commented that I was different from the other guys she had been out with because I "took no shit". She even admitted that she'd tried it on a few times to see if I was a 'doormat' and was pleasanty surprised when i got pissed off! :D I'm very grateful to her for pointing this out.


So there was my lesson, nice guys are ok, but if they just agree with everything and do everything a woman wants, the woman gets bored. They don't want that.



Nice doesn't have to mean boring, mix nice with humour and the ability to speak one's mind and you become a lot more interesting to be with.



Or so my therapist says ;)