Must you be stronger in a OW/YM relation

Hi there,

Be aware (!) a long letter:)

I sometimes wonder if a OW/YM relation really “are for a woman”? I’m not trying to be provocative or making offense. No, it’s more like an open existential question. Are OW “forced” to get oneself a YM because a lack of mature, responsible men around... especially if you are unlucky to become single when you’re middle aged? Okay, you always have to look upon the person and couldn’t generalize and say all young men are inmature or irresponsible. But I feel that an age relation at least give me a lot of stress. Perhaps because I lived with an older man all my life until now and so did my mother.

One more time during my time as a recently single and nowadays also middle aged woman I have feelings for a YM (26) (me 39). And wow do I feel insecure(!) and have so many questions about such a relation! We met last year in July at a Pub near my place and still se eachother. As a person I want security trust and respect in a relation. And suppose I feel none of that with this man. First we have an educational difference. I’m going for a doctoral degree he doesn’t even like to read books. Second we have totally different family background. I come from a family where my parents have been married 46 years with 5 kids. His dad have been divorced four time, have four children with three woman and nowadays he has moved back to his originally country Peru where he married a 22 year old woman being 58 himself. As you may understand I wonder “such father such son?”

This age thing makes me insecure and feeling old. I mean I’m normally a spontaneous kind of happy person with a “childish” curiosity upon life. But together with him I always get serious thoughts about how to manage thing, if I’m not steeling the best year from him, how to handle kid-question, life in general etc. When talking about us he always says that we have to give it time to se what happens with us. But still after 5 months together we haven’t been out doing something together more than dining at my place, looking on videos etc. He tells me that he first fell for me because of my looks (believe me I’m really a normal looking woman) and we have a great affection and great sex. But I mean what kind of relation could build ….only…on those factors? And trust me ladies, I even sometime wonder if the man is gonna make me a porn star? ( laughing) Or is it me who for the first time realized what sex is? Even if so, I anyhow do want more out of a relation. How do I make this clear to the man without putting to much stress to it?

My question is if you ladies that manage to have a relation with a YM should define yourself to be “stronger” than us “normal woman”? With more self-esteem and “guts”? And I wonder if one could say that you are building your relationships “on looser bounds with less demands” upon the man?

Curious Anna

Wow, lots of soul searching going on with you.
I'd say if after five months, you haven't gone out, you do have some questioning to do. You shouldn't be the sole entertainer, he should be taking you out in public. Hate to say it, but it sounds like you might be being used, somewhat. You need to find out why you aren't dating.
As to whether those of us in it for the long run are any stronger? Well, maybe. It seems most of us have been in, at least verbally abusive, emotionally neglectful marriages in the past. Not all by any means, but the majority. This tends to make you stronger, just by having survived.
Self esteem? Now that's just funny. I'd say we've all had to work really hard to learn to love ourselves, but it sure isn't that we're all so convinced that we're red hot ladies, who are so wonderful we're going to only go for young hotties. Not at all. I'd say 99% of us were not at all looking for a YM. Most of us had to be convinced at length that our YM were serious about actually persuing a relationship with us.
That pretty well sums up the being "forced" to get a young man too. For one thing, I've never in my life, well, since I was 15 anyway, tried to "get" a man. I don't really understand the concept actually. Every relationship I've ever had has grown out of a friendship, including my current one with my YM. I wouldn't have the foggiest idea of how to "get" a man actually.
I totally identify with the feeling insecure and old. I've had people accuse me of being with David because I want to feel younger. How funny is that? If I wanted to feel younger, I'd be with an O/M, not someone who makes me feel older. I never really felt older at all, until I wound up with someone young enough to be my son, who likes hip-hop, who is just learning about life, who is still experimenting with hair, and all that stuff. The trade-off is watching him grow into a wonderful man, and knowing that even if we don't wind up together forever, I've been a part of him.
The sex is wonderful, it sure isn't the reason for us being together though. Probably the reason its wonderful, is simply him, he's the most caring and considerate lover ever.
We've had a bad bump lately, we're still going to counselling. He's grown a lot from that, and so have I. Trust me, if our relationship was all fun and games, it wouldn't have survived the over two years it has.
I just keep repeating myself. It's not for everyone. It takes both partners making a commitment to making it work. It takes guts, and enough give, especially on the older woman's part to let the younger person grow and stretch, no matter how often you might inadvertantly get bruised. They're still learning how to communicate, and face it, just plain being male, versus our female is still a problem, age not withstanding.
As far as the "looser bounds and less demands" part. Absolutely not. If they're old enough to commit to a relationship, they're old enough to treat their partner right no matter her age. Anything less demeans the older partner, making them somehow less worthy, just because of the one factor they can't change. My son is your YM's age, and married with three kids. The fact that his wife is the same age doesn't give her the right to be treated better than you would be in the same circumstances. Sadly I see it happen far too often here, that the YM is allowed to pull crap no woman his own age would let him get by with, just because the O/W feels that somehow, she has to cut him more slack. Shouldn't happen. I even see it when the YM is 40 and the OW still wants to make allowances for his age. BAH! Being older than your partner, does not make you deserve poor treatment. Simple as that.
Anyway, good luck, I'm glad you found the site. Hang around and get to know us.

hmmmm, “on looser bounds with less demands” seems to be the appropriate term....but not just for an age-gap relationship....for our whole life! :)

I'm 47 and have found that I seek out a mellower life now, quiet, less stress....so why in the hell would I marry a guy half my age? hahahahaha!

This age thing makes me insecure and feeling old
Yup! it sure can....and will....and will continue to off and on throughout the life of your age-gap relationship, it's a bit of a battle, but if you have found the right guy, no matter what age he is, it's something you learn to deal with. As time goes by, and you see that your relationship has become stable and settled, feeling old and insecure is just no longer an issue....oh "it" rears it's ugly head every now and then, probably always will....but what relationship doesn't have it's issues, eh? :)

I've been a member here for awhile and know many of the members personally, I can't think of any that ever felt "forced" to seek out a YM because of the lack of good older men out there....as a matter of fact, for many of us, we would probably be with a man our age today, if we hadn't fell in love with a younger man first :)

Suddenly finding yourself single in middle age isn't unlucky at all! This is a wonderful time in your life right now, enjoy it, the YM your with isn't the only "fish" in the sea....spread your wings out and try on your new independence!....especially if the cultural differences bother you, then an age-gap relationship might not be right for you.

Whatever you do, Air.....I wish you all the best :)

....because I want to feel younger. How funny is that? If I wanted to feel younger, I'd be with an O/M
hahahahahahaha, right on Bella....is that the truth or what?:D

Being with younger man instead of with older one is a matter of choice, preference, sometimes surprising turn of fate, but I would never think that younger man is to substitute some wanted but non-accessible older guy.

When I was young (and beautiful - I always add..lol, although I was never beautiful, it sounds nice together) my criteria were: he cannot be a dummy (must be intelligent). He cannot be dirty (must take care of himself). He supposed to dance well.
Only one of these basics I can give up now, after sooo many years on earth. You - of course- know, it is the dancing...

From the romantic point of view - if you are happy with him, take it and enjoy it. From more of the realistic one - there are meaningful differences between you two. Ecxlude sex - what will you have left to love and cherish and to enjoy being with?
You are young, you describe yourself as "normal". You have every chance to find more interesting compilation. Sex and brains - or even brains and sex - there is nothing more appealing than that. You will not be able to convert your partner into an intelectual or change his background (althougs this might not be so important with time).
Please, look around, buy new dress and different shade of lipstick and .. go fishing....for a soul mate, as it is commonly called..

Telimena

You know the saying, "Opposites attract?" He doesn't have to be as educated as you are if you enjoy your time together. Male doctors and lawyers marry women with only a high school education, and maybe a year or two at "finishing school". If you enjoy this man, keep seeing him. If you feel you have enough in common and enough to talk about, keep seeing him. He's 26, that's old enough to know what he wants, and I'm sure you don't look "old" compared to him. I'll bet people don't even notice. Believe him when he tells you you're beautiful. My Robin always tells me, "If I didn't think you were attractive, we wouldn't be having the sex we're having!":D Hey, I think sex is a big part of a relationship. It's the "glue" that holds the relationship together.

Good luck and try to realize how lovely and special you are to this man. If he wanted someone younger, he'd already be with her.

Hmmmm....

For me, I ended up unhappily single at 31 after I lost a much-loved husband who was 11 years older than me to cancer when he was 42. After several years of intense grief - and I do not share the opinion that has been posted about people jumping back into relationships quickly after the loss of a spouse - I observed it quite differently in my own life, and that of the 20 or so people that I got to know in various support groups, but anyhoo .... I knew after that difficult period that I wanted to be happy again and that I would never settle for anything less than what I had had in my 10 year relationship with my husband. After one (yes, it was an Internet romance, that was engaging enough, but not what I wanted on an ongoing basis), I met a 19 year old - in real life - and he became my good friend and eventually my lover.

We're still together and it's creeping up on four years. He's 23 and I'm about to turn 39. He is the person that I want to be with. I'm not compromising, not settling, not looking for alternatives. I wish like hell we were a little closer in age, so this would all be a bit easier, but I'd rather be with him at any age manifestation (legal one, anyways) than with anybody else in the world. He's my guy and he would be if I'd met him when he was 50, 35, 25, or as it turned out, at 19.
I believe he feels the same about me.

We wouldn't voluntarily pick a relationship this challenging if we didn't really need to be together. If he could find an acceptable substitute for me in the under 25 bracket, I'm sure he would. Much less of a hassle. And I can't say that living like a grad student at 39 is my ideal scenario. But it's way better than being without him.

And sure, there are all kinds of adjustments I make because of his age. I'm very aware that he will make mistakes and change, that he's probably gonna be a bit flaky sometimes, that he needs to feel free. He knows an old fart like me can only pull so many all-nighters, and that I'm gonna have alot of furniture we have to cart around from city to city, and that some middle age bulge and wrinkles are gonna be a part of me.

We both live with those realities and try to be gentle and respectful of the places where our needs are not the same.

What I'm saying is that circumstances have taken me to this place, and I simply do the best I can with the situation that has been put in front of me. I wouldn't have chosen it - although I'm very happy to love again with all of my heart after losing my husband - but whatever strength I show is simply in not running away from it and trying to make it work.

So far - so good. I won't die if it doesn't work out, of course, but I will be sad to be separated from one of my very few soulmates on this earth. I hope never to be.

They take the lead with confidence no matter the age of the woman and are still secure if they are with a woman who has her own opinion about things. H.

Wow,
Guess I wasn’t wrong after all… "you’re a bunch of wise women". I bow and send a lot of thanks for your “thoughts”. It meant a lot to me! Let me just give you a short note on my thoughts.

Bella, you seem to be a strong “bull-eyed” woman, looking at facts, not neglecting difficulties but still following a path that your heart and head (!) desires. And yepp, you’re right; you gave me strength and perspective. I probably have to ask the man how he thinks we should move ahead with the relation, even if I’m afraid of a negative answer. And suppose you understood I didn’t mean that we woman should chase after men or that we are “forced” to take YM. My meaning was just that there is a shortage of grown up men and therefore it might just be natural for us OW to meet, date and live together with YM? I don’t know I have no idea how common this is!

Betzguido, you sound so vivid, optimistic and full of humor, that I feel that I just have to ask you if you have any idea how to keep fit and in good shape so that I could bear all my anxiety of growing old with a YM …:) To be serious….about ones appearance, it’s not so easy to look your best any longer. And you do want your man to see your inner qualities in the long run!

Telimena, logical and critical, I do worry about being with an uneducated man, but on the other hand I’d never been impressed by academics, they often just have a way with written words :) Actually my YM reminds me a lot of my father who was uneducated but succeeded in his own business. But I should remember your advice.

Polly, you really know how to put a word in the right place! Wow did I laugh when I read about “older men marrying younger uneducated woman”. You have a point there! But you seem to be so strong Polly, almost unreal to me!!!. You’ve “fixed” house, kids, business and your YM. Well suppose I need to hang out on the board having advices? Anyhow, there are some good things in this “relation” with my YM. We have a rather good communication, and we always have fun when we’re together. Perhaps I over react and want things to go quicker or my bad self esteem and confusions about things make things worse than it is?? I promise to comeback and tell you how things develop.

Desert Spring, what a wonderful, touching story about how you met your YM. I really hope that you get many good years together! You seem to be such nice and observant lady.

HadleyManassas, well who doesn’t want to be with a man that could cuddle and make you feel comfortable, secure and in focus? You tell me.

By the way, what does lol means???

Anna
:confused: as always...Laughing..again

LOL means: laughing out loud

Which you should continue doing as much as possible.. Enjoy life!

Telimena

Hi over there,
I spoke to the man and things are more confused than ever! Really need to speak to you just to survive this.

Robert and I met at my place last weekend for dinner. I’d made some simple food and was very determined to talk to him about how I felt. I don’t think I was too pushy but I didn’t want us to end up in bed instead of talking. He’s very sweet and gentle when he’s around and makes me comfortable. And that is a hard part for me to take. It confuses me. Is anyone else having that feeling?

Anyhow to get to the point, after a few hours of “chatting” I said what I felt, that I liked him a lot, that I wondered why we always met at my house and that I felt like I wanted to do other things with him. I also said that I wanted to know him more. The answer he gave me was that he thought that his own behavior during the time we’ve met had been egoistical and he apologized for that. He had “felt” for me from the first time we’d met but at the time he was involved with another woman at his own age and he wanted to end that relation “nicely”. He’d also been a bit surprised when he became aware of my age and just wanted to be with me to be sure of his feelings. Unfortunately he since a long time had planned to see his father in Peru now in January until Mars. The tickets and arrangements were already done. He had promised his dad to help him build up a business and also should to some pleasure trip to see his cousins in Miami.

I was confused and wondered what that left us? He was very sad also but encourage me with motivating words and said things that “it only was a short time we should be apart compared to our future together” and that he always had an eye on me through the stars and that when he was back in April we could have a “real start”…and so on and so on. But I was hoping to perhaps move ahead slowly by doing things together and I think two months away from eachother now is a disaster and by the way I’m jealous like hell. I don’t think a man with that kind of stamina is gonna be truthful for a second. What does the man want from me? Freedom to cheat while I sit at home waiting for him?

I was mad and suppose the evening didn’t end as nicely as it uses to do. The worst thing is that my friends over ins't very supportive. Insted they load me tons of arguments like “What did I say? He’s just playing with you”. “Keep to men at your age he’s not mature enough”. “He’s not serious with you and shouldn’t be at his age”. ”What’s the matter with you, do you have an age cisis”. And I truly don’t know what to answer them but I’m very sure of my feelings!!

I haven’t called him since. He tried to call me but I told him I was busy when he called during the week. Well, well well, ladies for the moment I feel more or less like a teenager, with chaotic thoughts and feelings. Thanks for letting me write! And thanks to you who had the energy to listen!

When exactly does he leave for Peru? I think maybe you overreacted... maybe? It sounds like he has developed real feelings for you. Try not to project so much into the future but be loving and friendly to him now. Are you going to write and talk to each other while he is in Peru? If so, I would relax.

You sound like you lack confidence in yourself. Try to put this realtionship in perspective. You asked for more... he agreed that he had not treated you the way he should and said he would do better. His trip has already been planned so he can't just drop it. What exactly would you like him to do? Cancel his trip?

I know this is hard... keep posting... I know you will get some more excellent advice from the others.

When I first met my y/m, I never thought for one minute we would go beyond being friends, as my kids had friends that age, and I got along well with them. Well, guess what? We became good friends, then the spark was there, it was there the whole time, but just never admitted it before. I didn't think he would be interested in an o/w. Now I have a ring on my finger, and we are still going strong after 3 years. Very compatible in many ways. Although he is 21, I am 48, neither of us see the difference. He is as mature as any man I have met. Maybe more. We are planning on getting married when he gets his degree. We also had different culture/religion in there too, and yet, we have been lucky, and successful! :p (not to say it all has been easy, but each storm we got through together)

YR,
Suppose you’re right about me needing perspective. But it was hard to first accept that I had feelings for the man second to try to talk about it. Then to have to hear that he was going away for two months made me mostly sad, but also mad. But I didn’t show him that I was sad, I just showed him that I was mad,

But I also mean I wonder how the guy would have told me if I hadn’t been the one taken up the subject? And he isn’t precisely the man who sits down to write a letter and you just could imagine how my fantasies plays games with me and give me pictures of what he’s going to do at nights!! But no, I never ever would come to the thought that he should cancel the trip. He’s leaving now on Friday and returning primarily on the 29th of Mars. It feels like he’s playing around with my emotions or like I’m having more emotions than him? Or we express them differently?

Why do I bother at all? I’m having fun with him, he’d opened my eyes in many ways and teaches me about things I’d no idea about. We talk easily together and wow do I like being with him, yes!

But I know there are many things that have to work out when ordinary day to day live knocks on the door and I so much wanted to have started the process to find out more about him and suddenly there’s no way for that! Okay, he said he liked me a lot (!) but I’m the one who always been skeptical to be seduced by men’s wonderful words, it’s not my way to be. I’m usually rather down to earth and been working hard to get where I’m now.

And yes YR you’re right. I have a lack of confidence in myself and it has a long story and perhaps it’s another story? I have to work on it, sometimes it’s better and sometimes it’s worse and I’m not to sure how to work on it. But being interested in a YM man surely doesn’t make it better, at least not for me.

Thanks Z'Angel Baby. Over here there isn’t many examples of either YM/OW or too many examples of couples with different cultures/religion. I need to hear every thing there is about it, because my friends thinks I’ve become insane but I myself most feel in love.

I gonna keep reading and keep being on the board. Thanks for cheering me!!:)

If you're dating a man with connections and family in Peru, than it doesn't seem all that whacky to me that he may need to travel to Peru from time to time. Two months is two months. I'd let him go, without a lot of fuss, and see what's happening when he gets back. It doesn't sound like this trip has a whole lot to do with you, it has to do with his life and the things he needs to take care of. Why is it a disaster? Why is it necessarily a "license to cheat" Certainly you can cheat as easily as he can while separated for two months.

Yes, it's hard to trust someone when you don't know them very well, they're younger, and you have cultural and educational differences, but the only remedy for that is time, and getting to know each other better.

Which you'll have plenty of time to do - if you want to - when he returns from Peru.

In the meantime, consider him a friend, treat him as a friend - with affection and not jealousy and insecurity, and then see what develops in the springtime.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Desert Spring

[B]If you're dating a man with connections and family in Peru, than it doesn't seem all that whacky to me that he may need to travel to Peru from time to time.
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Nope, okay, when you say it like that it seems reasonable, I agree.
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QUOTE]Originally posted by Desert Spring

Why is it necessarily a "license to cheat" Certainly you can cheat as easily as he can while separated for two months.
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I don't want him or me to cheat, what kind of a start is that??I've been cheated on before and it hurts like hell!What do you suggest? Two month without sex is a long time for a man! Okay, what I don't know won't hurt me, but it makes me in a way sad, don't ask me why! My head doesn't seem to function logical any longer.
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QUOTE]Originally posted by Desert Spring

In the meantime, consider him a friend, treat him as a friend - with affection and not jealousy and insecurity, and then see what develops in the springtime.
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Okidoki, also sounds reasonable....in a way friendship is necessary anyway just to get to know eachother better. Strange never happen to me before!!!! But I'm so sure of wanting more from this man, and it kind of making my head like a mess, making it impossible to think and last week even affected me at work.

Thanks a lot DS, I don't think any of you ladies knows how much it means to me to have your advice!!I'm glad I found you!

Hi Air,

I'm skeptical. How long have you been seeing him? 5-6 months? and you've never left your house with him? And he never told you that he had this trip planned? And he's leaving this Friday? Nope. I don't care for this scenario at all. Ho many times a week does he come over?

I know when I met Greg, it was casual sex only. For about 2-3 months that was it. And I tried to get him to take me out of the house for coffee or something. And he would say no this is casual sex and we will not have a relationship. Period. He didn't want to have the age gap relationship. But gosh within a few months we couldn't do that and the relationship turned serious and committed now for two years.

I would be extremely suspect if my guy did not tell me he was leaving for a trip that would take him away for two months. What was he thinking about your feelings? Unless perhaps he wasn't thinking about your feelings.

However having said all of this and being the negative one; you should indeed look at it like Desert Spring suggests. Relax, let him go, encourage him to have a wonderful time. But then get on about the business of living assuming you have no relatiosnhip with him. Really. And do consider him a friend. But would you wait for your girlfriend while she was gone and not go out and see other friends? No you would be out keeping busy.

Incidentally would your closest girlfriend not have told you that she was leaving on a two month trip? Would she have waited for the last minute to tell you? NO.

Yes, I would be concerned about the meaning of your relationship in his eyes. He can be your friend while he is away, but certainly not one of your best friends.

I hope I haven't rushed to judgement here too much but those flashing red lights are all over the place for me.

Good luck
Cindy

Cindy,
I think you express what I mostly feel. To bad but that's reality.
As for going out with my friends I’d never come to think of locking myself into the house. Of course I’m going out with my friends.

Feeling kind of weird though, like I have to date and perhaps sleep with others while he’s away. Just incase I find out later that he’s been having fun on his trip I might as well do the same. But telling you about my thoughts don’t mean that is my behavior, trust me I’m usually a rather strict person. Any person who could interpret that I’d be more than thankful though I don’t understand it myself.

Perhaps I just experienced how it is to start a relation the “wrong” way? I think in general it’s more easy for a man to separate sex from feelings, or perhaps it’s individual?

Hopefully my feelings won’t stand in my way if it turn’s out the guy is serious. Well, suppose I have to wait and see for all answer and meanwhile just try to live the best life I could.

But the way...... I’m a little into this with Astrology and I the latest day wondered so much what sign you ladies might be. I myself am a typical Aries, a fire sign and the man I’m interested in is a Taurus. What about you? If any of you are good in readings or have any contacts that could do a consultation, I’m in!

Hey for now!

Although I just rented the movie - Signs - good movie.

OK back to your astrological stuff. I am Aries (airhead) and he is Pisces (pisshead) (I'm mad at him today).

He is 32 and I am 48. In emotional maturity we are probably about 15 equally.

I will tell you though that I come from an extremely psychic family who strongly believes in all the astrology, the paranormal (or whatever) and in psychic reading. And get this they are all major christians.

We have so many stories of visits from long lost relatives in the form of spiritual visits. We have many, many stories of psychic readings coming true.

None for me though. I'm still waiting for someone to come visit me from the dead.

Cindy

Well, ain’t I glad to hear that there are others that feel mentally younger than their physical age. Never felt a day over 18 myself. So suppose I’m in the wrong package :D

And am I speaking with another stubborn, obstinate warrior soul that hates to loose? Suppose we Aries could be like that sometimes. I can surely tell you it needs a man to get me down when I’m on that mood. But for most I’m calm and sweet as a lamb…:D

Wow! When there is time please promise to tell me/us more about those spiritual visits, sounds so exiting. Some relatives on my mothers side have some positive experience and my sister and I always been very well connected and often finds ourselves doing same things and thinking the same thoughts.

All the best for now. Anna

Hi !

Just wanted to tell you I met Robert before he left, at Thursday evening. He called and we decided to meet at a café. Wow outside my house!!It was a calm nice and warm meeting. He seemed to be caught up in travels plan and all his doings but also he’d been thinking on me he said. He was cute and sweet. Felt well, we separated before his travels as friends! And I behaved – or I would say I was the one I use to be when I’m around people! We talked about Peru, differences between the countries, his work, my work, my family, his sisters and the conversation was easy and smooth.

But have to tell you that when I think about the man I really have my doubts. I mean a man of twenty- six may easily find the woman of forty fascinating, but unless she is expert in the art of keeping the years at bay in heart and face, he may find her no longer to his taste at forty-five. And I know how important a woman’s appearance usually is for a man. And I also know about the tendency of men past middle life to admire very young women. The man who at thirty has married a woman of forty may very well, at fifty, lose his head over a girl of eighteen.

Of course you could always argue that you could divide the years into 365 days, but that doesn’t hinder some women from being younger at forty than others are at twenty, and some men from being older at twenty than some women at fifty. And I wonder so much why in general it should be more difficult for a woman to live with a younger man and grow old than vice versa - or is it me just being prejudice? And again I wonder if just the fact of society’s worship of youth and all that demands it puts upon us is a hard nut to crack in an age-difference relationship? And then I mean it just hasn’t to do with your personal confidence it has to do what pressure society puts on you and your relationship. And I mean I want to be in a relationship because of love not because I want to prove anything to myself or the society.

And as for Robert and me it’s not just an age difference it’s cultural differences and social differences as well. Anyhow I feel so glad that I could tell you that we were able to talk as grown up and when we split outside the café we gave each other a long hug and he promised to write me a postcard...but I had to ask..

And another thing I just have to tell you that I found strange is that I think – I’m not sure - but it felt like the man was more nervous than me when we met. Don’t ask me why but it was a feeling I got.

Bye for now and a lot of thoughts as usual from Anna

I reread the whole thread so I'd bring myself back to the story.

I'm glad his departure went smoothly. I'm glad you pulled it together and acted like your true self instead of the bumbling, hysterical fool that I may have been!!

I do not agree with all the stuff about whether it is possible that these relationships can't work for some folks in the aging process. I mean, I just won't believe it. No.

There are women on these boards who will tell you that they look 10-15 years younger and that they keep their bodies strong and taut. I won't name names, Polly, whoops, who said that??? Not me! OK seriously, there are women who are blessed with genes that keep them young with skin that just doesn't wrinkle much. I don't like these women and never will. It's not a fair world.'

I am 48 and I look 48 - and then some perhaps. I have fair skin, blue eyes and my hair is very gray (underneath the lovely shades of reddish, blondish). I am sagging in spots. I have to position myself accordingly during lovemaking so that my saggies don't show. I'm looking forward to the time when I don't care but right now I'm self conscious as hell.

But my guy loves me and he is 16 yers younger. And I know damned well that all the hiding of every sag is ridiculous and that he has seen them all, if not more that I cannot see. I think he loves me for who I am inside!! No kidding. I'm sometimes not sure though and then begin again to examine the hangy spots on my body and begin to look for even more just to prove to myself that he cannot possibly love this body. That this will never last. That soon the charade will be over and he will really know that I am indeed an older woman.

Fortunately my confidence increases every day and I check for those sags less and less. And I actually begin to accept that love he is giving me daily. It happens more and more. It's hard to let go of the fears though and accept the day to day love that I deserve. It's almost easier to live with the belief that it will all end one day - that he will leave me. This mundane life of love without the perils and pitfalls of rejection is hard to accept.

But I work hard every day to let myself live with the acceptance of who I am and who Greg is and that I am worthy of the love of another individual solely because I am me. And I am wonderful.

So.... what was I saying? why did I post?

You should look in the threads and find the one written by BillyJim or some name like that. And then check his profile and go to the part that says 'read past threads of this person'. This young man will give you a taste of what it is like in his prospective to be married now for something like 13 years to an older woman. It is awesome and inspiring. I think I may print it out.

You sound wonderful really. You sound so introspective yet with that knowledge of the folly our minds do play on us.

But now the peruvian young man is gone? And you still don't know what his reality is. You know what he told you and what he didn't tell you. And you have his actions which speak volumes. So now you must go back to yourself and your life. And live in the present and enjoy it all. And by all means dream about the porno star that you so enjoyed in yourself. (I love that too - didn't even know I could be a porno star!!!)

You dont' need to go out and sleep with people and date anyone that comes along. But you should go out and live and whatever that is for you and however that is most natural to you. Let go of the past and move forward. And if he comes back and you still feel the same; give it another shot.

Stay here with us. I like your posts. I like your insight. Share more of your thoughts and ideas. We need people like you here. I do anyway.

So with the psychic stuff. Yea, got it big time from my grandma. She was very very wealthy and lived in mansions in Alabama. She was an identical twin. There were three siblings, her sister and her brother. My nana and her twin were lovely so they went into dancing as twins in Los Angeles. She went to a psychic reader and learned that she would soon meet my grandfather. She knew he would be a brother, an actor, a wealthy man and she knew his initials. She did meet him and they did marry for about 65 years. Her brother married a woman who died early and suddenly. Her name was Lorraine and Lorraine evidently wasn't ready to die. She frequently came back to visit. At first they all loved her visits. They welcomed her visits. She would turn off lights, shake dishes, close doors and let her presence be known. Eventually though, she would come at inopportune times and they grew weary at her visits. They had to shout 'stop it Lorraine.' And Lorraine did eventually stop coming as much. My father had visits as well and described being in his living room one evening as a teen when the room grew suddenly cold and different. He was sure of a presence and waited. Momentarily a vase on the fireplace mantel simply broke down the middle. That was all. And it was over.

I've grown up with the full expectation that at some point my visits will start. I've waited for my beloved nana and papa to come back but they haven't yet. Once after returning from Israel for the last time, and being terribly distraught over a broken relationship my nane called me to wish me a warm hello on my return. On the phone she said, 'did you see papa?" I was a bit surprised and exclaimed what? and she said, yes, did you see or feel papa with you on the plane? Why no, not that I am aware of. And she said, well he was there. He came to me and told me he was with you and bringing you home safely on the plane." I've never forgotten those words and did feel very good to know that my papa had been there with me and don't doubt for a minute that he was with me.

I'm anxiously awaiting my visits. I fully expect them to come one day and watch for them. And of course I talk to passed on relatives and urge them to come.

This was a long post Air and everyone, sorry about that. Life is very good today and I am feeling conversational.

All the best,
Cindy

Cindy,

What an absolute wonderful story about your family and all psychic happenings. Have to tell you I still have a child’s imagination and mind! But surely others must have got the Goosebumps when reading about your dad watching and guarding over you in the plane. Makes a wonderful movie! It covers several generations both in the states and Europe as I understood it? I tell you, keep writing and you’ll find yourself having a movie manuscript”...not kidding you

And hey (!) about movies have you seen Leslie Nilsen in “Spy Hard”??? You know this smart, quick and international agent who manage to do everything wrong. That merely explains how I feel amongst you guys on this board. Cindy you’re so soft and gentle with me and thanks for that. But have to be honest and tell you I’m a disaster when it comes to romance, feelings and how to survive every emotional eruption. Should probably been born as a man, that would been a lot easier …lol :D So I’m just happy to be around and listen and learn!

And okay, okay….you’ve got a point about fighting aging and not give up even though you some days are willing to throw every damn mirror out right through the widow!!!

Girl, promise you to do my best to live “la vida loca” and keep up with being a “porn-star”. Perhaps it’s time for me to change career anyway and have to leave my “dry books” :D

This Billy Jim was a real “sweetie pie”, but if he isn’t an alias for a mature, older woman :D telling us how to think about relationship I gonna eat my hat! I’m not into gambling but this time I could bid on it!!!

Take care Cindy and let hear of you! Anna

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Air
[B]

It's not every day I have to quote myself.
But to: "throw every damn mirror out right through the widow" sounded as such bizzare spelling mistake that I had to wipe my eyes from laughing tears :) Hopefully you knew my meaning anyway.

Take care,

Anna

My question is if you ladies that manage to have a relation with a YM should define yourself to be “stronger” than us “normal woman”? With more self-esteem and “guts”? And I wonder if one could say that you are building your relationships “on looser bounds with less demands” upon the man?


lol...What's a “normal woman"? actually, how would you define "normal" ? ....doesn't it fall under the same category as "prefect" which is no more than a personal opinion.

I never looked at myself and thought that I had guts to prefer YM over OM's. It just happens to be my preference and with my type of personality and attitude I have always been able to get along with men younger then me.

It's not a fetish for a OM to date much younger women, so why when it's the other way around it is treated like one, ignorance and societies mission to control and pollute the weakest minds into unreasonable and unfair judgement.


lol...damn, sorry for getting too deep there.

LOL! Cindy! My body IS NOT strong and taut, but IT WILL BE because I'm on a serious diet and exercise plan! If ya want to look good in your forties, follow Denise Austin. Yeah, I was blessed with minimal wrinkles, my grandmother was 76 when she died and still had very smooth skin. I agree with Air, that appearance is important to a man, thus my continued fight against the bags and sags of my body, but it's not the only thing important to a man. The way a woman carries herself, presents herself, lives her life, and what is in her heart is much more important to a man. Oh, and Robin told me this: "There are pretty 20-somethings and ugly 20-somethings, there are pretty 30 and 40-somethings and ugly 30 and 40-somethings. You are pretty and will always be my 'dressed up 17-year-old'. If you ever leave me, I will look for another woman your age. That is what I like, that is what I'm attracted to, and that is what I'm comfortable with." So you see? They CAN stay in love with us as we age. Sure, we should do all we can to be healthy and fit, and we should implement any beauty treatments we can, but staying good people and being true to our values and morals will really keep him there.

Air, if I were you, I'd not put all of my eggs in one basket. Leave the door open for Robert, but also date other people. You shouldn't necessarily sleep around, unless you meet a very special man and want to sleep with him, but at least expose yourself to other opportunities in case Robert doesn't work out. In my experience, it's best to let the man pursue you. If he doesn't, he wasn't all that interested to begin with. Your Robert knows that you care for him and want a possible relationship. The ball's in his court now.

Just wanted to add that I'm not a desperat woman seeking love at any price at first person laying eyes on me. I really feel for this guy. But as you say time will tell, no need to rush tings and I'm not worried. I'm not seeking a Prince because I'm not a Princess. But saying that doesn't mean that the man is gonna have to work hard to convince me that he's worth my feelings :D

Polly could I ask you someting that nothing with this thread to to but might interest others also?

How do you make time for yourself? I mean you have kids, business and a man. But suppose everyone once and then also need time for ourselves just to recharge our batteries.

I myself have a couple a month ago started up a business and it takes so much of my time. And then I don't need taking care of kids or a man. Perhaps gets better when I get routine?

As I'm thinking of going into the process of adopting a child I really want to make sure I have time to nourish and spoil the child :) and worries a little about how to make it all work when being single and having your own business. I mean a child must come first and I wonder sometime if I have to choose and that I couldn't have both?

All the best to all of you from Anna

Air, I constantly prioritize. I don't sweat the small stuff. If the kids want to go to a birthday party or to the mall but there are dirty dishes in the sink, the dishes wait until I get back. I set aside every Monday, until it got really cold here, to take the kids horseback riding. That was my special time with them, when we were all three completely enjoying ourselves doing something we truly loved. On the weekends, I let my kids have their friends over so they have something to do while I'm cleaning and doing laundry. Our weekdays are more structured. Dinnertime is at 6:00. Homework is at 7:00. Bedtime is at 9:30. I always am available to help them with homework. I am up with them at 6:15 a.m. and get them off to school, then I sneak on here for a little while before Robin wakes up! :D

Robin and I spend the morning together after they go to school, then we get ready and go off to houseclean. We also have our sacred "date night" on Saturday night. No matter what, we do something together on Saturday night. One or two evenings a week, Robin goes to his friends' houses, and I either watch a movie with the kids or get on here! :D It all works out. I like to talk on the phone too, so sometimes I use that "alone" time to talk on the phone.

Weekend days, my kids are playing indoor soccer right now, so I have to schedule everything around their games. Fortunately, the soccer place is right up the street from our house. Since I always run into people I know there, it's a good place to socialize while watching the games.

I bought a cordless headset phone so I could talk while walking around the house hands-free to do laundry, dishes, cooking and cleaning.

I do the bills early Sunday morning before anyone else gets up.

I keep a "clutter basket" in every room, and during the week, things left lying around go into the basket. Then on the weekends, I make the kids go through them and put their stuff away.

My biggest problem is finding time for the pets! We have a dog, 4 cats, 2 turtles, a snake, 3 hamsters, a rabbit, and an aquarium. I make the kids do a lot of the feeding and watering, but I end up cleaning the cages. Robin does the aquarium.

I'm now organizing my schedule so I can find time to work out every day. I'm going to try to get home from work 40 minutes before the kids get home, and do it then. Since we have our own housecleaning business, it IS a flexible schedule, and that makes a lot of things possible that otherwise wouldn't be.

Geez, Polly, you actually thought I was Mother of The year?? You make me look like a walking zombie.

Here's my wonderful day:

Wake up at 5:00 am, drink coffee like a zombie, smoke cigarettes on back porch, play on computer, clean kitchen from evening dishes.

Wake up children at 7:00, still a zombie, takes 20 minutes to get the little heathens out of bed and downstairs. Drink more coffee, find their clothes which are always stacked somewhere certainly never in their drawers, clean socks and shoes. Beg them to eat a nutritious meal for breakfast but frequently settle for cookies and milk.

My mother comes over at 7:00 am to make their school lunches. I try to rip her head off in zombiness.

Drive kids to school at 8:00. Go inside the school as a zombie making sure it's safe for my children and ready to tear some innocent little bully a new butt. Get them situated, visit with other mothers or stay to parent help in their classes.

Since I no longer work, I eventually come home and play on the computer more, run an errand, think about cleaning the house, do feed all our pets consisting 1-2 dogs, three cats, frog, bird, hamster and snake. I do not clean the cages - Greg cleans them usually with one kid in tow.

I think more about cleaning the house. Then I go to pick up the kids at 2:15 - stay after school in the playground for another hour visiting with other parents.

Come home with kids, some extras or some less if they go to friends.

Think more about cleaning the house.

Think about dinner.

Gather up kids or return kids to homes depending.

Talk about homework.

Think about cleaning house.

Talk about homework.

Think about dinner.

Make afternoon coffee, drink coffee, smoke cigs on back porch. Think earnestly about day getting away from me and really must clean the house now. Smoke more cigs and realize it's time for dinner and homework.

Regret having not gotten to cleaning the house.

Eat nutritious dinner of spaghettios or chicken nuggets.

Remember that it is basketball night at 6:00 and it is now 5:45. Run hysterically through house looking for special basketball pants that buttun up the side and are 'oh so cool'. Must find perfect shirt for perfect 7 yr old. Get to basketball already in a sweat. Forget water ball, drop kid off, run home for water bottle. Get back - visit with parents. Watch my son.

Get home, do homework, fall into bed a zombie.

Wake up a zombie the next day. Repeat same.

{{{{{{{{{{Air}}}}}}}}}}}}}.......that means hugs lol.....and I know you now know what lol means :)
Anyway..........I am sure that my opinion is going to be an unpopular one but..................here it goes..........If you feel insecure and aren't being over sensitive and your not insane.......and I know your not.............usually there is good reason for it. Gut instincts are a blessing and we should listen to them. Not that I personally always follow my own mind you but in retrospect those instincts were right........I did, however, learn invaluable lessons from taking the "other" road though.
OK......now...........for me........there would be NO WAY that I could be in any relationship with anyone where I felt insecure most of the time. Sure, we all have our moments and where there is an age difference........maybe even a few more of those times.
As for the aging process.......almost all women have issues with that one. My friend, age 25, married for 5 years to a man the same age experiences this issue........crazy. But, I guess.............she has 2 little kids and stays at home (more time to obsess lol) Stretch marks, wrinkles, weight, etc............always something it seems.
When a man really loves you and/or is heading in that direction..........he doesn't notice.......really..............he doesn't. We are our own worse critics for sure.
So again..........if you feel a red flag........trust in yourself..........you and your life is all that you've got..............make it a good one and if you do not feel more secure soon.........keep on steppin' honey :)
Brightest Blessings, Tinydancer

Cindy, that was HYSTERICAL!!! I can soooo relate! I hate when it's time to leave and they can't find their uniforms or shin guards. I'm ready to strangle them. Problem solved: Now, they each have their own sports bag. AS SOON AS they come home from soccer, they take off their cleats and shin guards and put them in their bags. Bags hang on back of bedroom doors. Uniforms IMMEDIATELY go into the laundry. After being cleaned, they get put away in bags (which I also keep sachets in so they don't smell).

I wish so very much I could spend more time at their school...volunteering, subbing, whatever. I LOVE being in their school. I do get to help with the parties, and sometimes I'm lucky enough to be chosen for chaperone on a trip, but I would truly love to be more a part of the school. If I win the lottery...

Had the flue last week and couldn't do much...suppose I was more or less like a zombie :) Thanks for sharing ideas of how to organize life with a big household and a work. What women! I just have to sent you a big "wow" and tell you I'm impressed.

Anna

Hey folks,
have felt rather low for a week. Perhaps writing a short update on happenings over here. Robert came home from Peru. Came over to my place with a friend of his. Guess if I was happy to see him, I just melted! We went out dining and had a rather nice time. After dinner his friend went over to the bar while we still sat the table. Now tha "not nice part" started. He told me that he decided to have a "second try" with his girlfriend. He thought that the distance beween us was to far, that I could get another "much better man" than him. He had been thinking of me all the time while he has been away and could not even think of living a life without me but not with me. He was afraid that I should get bored and throw him out just after a few month. I cried he cried. Mostly its my education that scares him. He says that anything he can I could easily read in a book in ten seconds. No matter how much I told him I didn't care he would't listen to that.And everything was just TERRIBLE. Since that meeting in late Mars we have been seeing eachother two times. He has called and driven over to my place, we have been sitting just hugging eachother merely not saying nothing. He is pulling away and all the time telling me (we have met three times since he came back from Peru)to go out and find another but he promise to stay in touch because he wouldn't like to loose me. My feelings are very much upside down though this guy really touches me and make all my blood in my system pump like crazy and he in a way stolen my heart. I really have no words for what I feel and
sisters for the moment I see no solution to our feelings or relation.

Take care all of you,
Anna

Hello Anna,


I hate to tell you this but the only solution is to move on and find somebody who ISN'T so unsure about a relationship with you.


I'm a guy by the way, who has dated a lady 12 years his senior. I have to say I agreed with Cindy when she said she smelt a rat. Right from the start of your story I had my doubts about your YM. I am a guy myself so the behaviour of other guys is perhaps easier to understand. Let's put it this way, the manner in which he has gone about this suggests NO COMMITMENT WHATSOEVER to you. You might not like what I write, it is only my opinion, I hope it doesn't hurt or upset you because that is certainly not my intention. But move on, there is somebody out there who will say the things you need to hear and you will not be left unsure as to how he feels. Less mind games = happy life.



But you sound to me like you can find someone much better for you. Get out there and find him, life is short.


mick

Mickguess you're right. Wonder how this man works? I phoned him yesterday and now he even says he don't dare to come over to my house because he might change his mind about his decision. I've asked if it was a possibility for him to move to my place, but he says no. It is a hard work being rejected by someone you really like. Sitting up in the night and just couldn't sleep. Gosh, ain't life a shit, you tell me;)

Anna

Forget him Anna.

It has no point to try and find out how some people work, there is no answer to that one.


Look at yourself and decide whether YOU deserve the mind games, and the whole game that's being played in general.

You don't. Tell him where to go. If this brings him back crying, then it's basically game on once again. You might miss him, but would you also miss thinking so much your head wants to burst?


It's not supposed to be a game. And your head is better off when it can switch off and sleep at night.


Good luck,


mick