Need Advice/insight Please

Jason and I were the epitome of happiness for 3 years. We always thought of ourselves as true soul mates, compatible in every way. We share one soul, and can speak for hours on end. We first found each other on an internet pen pal/dating site. We began to correspond through emails and phone. When we first contacted each other, I made the biggest mistake of my life. I told him I was the same age as him, which was 33. I was 12 years older. I look much younger, and have more in common with Jason than any other woman ever has. I know this was a terrible mistake in not telling him my actual age, but I honestly felt I had so much more in common with him than men my own age. I guess in the beginning I didn’t think to tell him my actual age, because I didn’t think it would have progressed into something serious, because of the distance of 600 miles between us.

We became closer with every passing day. We’d spend hours talking, sharing everything. Loving and laughing. I knew I had to tell him my correct age as soon as possible. And I had it set in my mind to do this upon our first “in person” meeting. I needed to look into his eyes, and then I could do it. As time went by, and we spoke of our plans for the future, and meeting, etc, I knew there was no turning back. I loved him so much, as he did me. He told me he couldn’t survive without me, and I felt the same. So while we planned for our first meeting, things kept happening to delay it. My brother was diagnosed with a terminal illness, and during this time, my dad needed my help. So that delayed things for quite a while. Eventually, the big day came for our long awaited in person meeting. It had been 2 and a half years since we began to correspond - but it would be worth the wait.

I knew I had to tell him the truth about my age when I saw him. I also knew I should have told him ages ago, and there was no excuse for me not doing so….other than fear. I never knew such an all-encompassing love before. And he had so many wonderful plans for us to be together for always. It was such a perfect depiction of a beautiful long life together. And in being so clouded by my love, I couldn’t even think logically. I made the biggest misjudgment in my life by not telling him at the start. But things progressed so fast. I was so afraid of losing what we had. I was always completely open and honest about everything with him - but why couldn’t I tell him my age??? I feel absolutely TERRIBLE about myself now, and even though I couldn't see what the results of my consequences were at the time (love can cloud your senses to the point of irrational) I'd give my right arm, if only I could go back and change what happened, and had been truthful about my age from the very beginning. I love him more than words can say, and would rather hurt myself over and over than to cause him one moment of pain.

The day finally arrived, and we shared the most beautiful weekend imaginable. It was like a dream. We both were never happier. I knew before I left for home , I needed to tell him my secret. I was set to tell him, but that’s when the bottom dropped out. You see, I met his parents, and unbeknownst to me his overprotective and controlling mother was discussing her thoughts on me with him, behind my back. I later learned (from Jason himself) that his mom said to him that I look older than he does, and was he sure I was telling him my correct age. I had no clue she was secretly persisting in this issue. Jason, being close to his mom, was pushed into doing something at her suggestion. He said he did this just to prove to her she was wrong, and so she’d drop it once and for all. So what did he do? He searched through my purse, and found my ID on my driver’s licence. And that was how he learned my true age. I feel he should have confronted me with his suspicions, rather than listen to his mom and search my things. We both made big mistakes.

He didn’t confront me with this revelation of his, instead he kept up the pretense that all was normal. I sensed something was bothering him, as he seemed so detached now. He said he didn’t feel well. So for some reason, I didn’t get a chance, because he was feeling so poorly, and I put off telling him on my own. I figured I’d go home and tell him in two weeks when we got together again.

When I got home, he called me in tears, telling me all that happened and how he’d found out. Long story short, he was devastated. At first he felt I betrayed him for not telling him my age all that time, and there was a trust thing. After I explained why I couldn’t right away - out of fear of losing him - and how I planned to in person, he said he came to understand my reasons. He said he didn’t blame me. He told me loved me same as always and always would. HOWEVER, he also said, he realized we could never be as we were, and so he couldn’t remain in the romantic relationship with me now. Meanwhile, his mom sent me a ‘poison pen letter email saying how she’d never forgive me for the hurt I caused her son. That he couldn’t eat or sleep, he was so devasted, and he can’t stop crying, etc. She also had the audacity to butt her nose in saying that age DOES matter, and I should go to some ‘older person’s group’ to find someone else!! She went on to say he deserves a younger woman who’d give him children. She then said that the woman her son loved was now dead. Her email was so hateful…and hurtful. Jason sort of brushed it off, saying “:Ya have to know my mom, she’s way overprotective”…and the only thing he did in my defense, was tell her not to interfere in his situation. I was livid at his mom’s nerve and interference, yet I didn’t reply to her, and I eventually dropped it.

Jason was devastated and at the lowest point of his life. I felt totally responsible, and it was killing me to know that I caused the man I love more than life itself an ounce of pain. I feel absolutely TERRIBLE about myself now, and even though I couldn't see what the results of my consequences were at the time (love can cloud your senses to the point of irrational) I'd give my right arm, if only I could go back and change what happened, and had been truthful about my age from the very beginning. I love him more than words can say, and would rather hurt myself over and over than to cause him one moment of pain.

Jason called me the next day in tears, saying he couldn’t ever imagine losing me from his life. He told me he would always love me, the feelings in his heart had never changed. But his logic told him it wouldn’t work. So basically he decided we needed to remain in each other’s lives, and still speak daily, and be close as ever. Because our connection has always been so incredibly strong, I too knew I couldn’t imagine life without him.

We speak every day. We joke, we laugh, we share our lives…we reminisce about our beautiful weekend together. He gives me every indication that he thinks of that often. And everything remains the same, except for one thing…we are no longer a romantic couple obviously. And he’s free to move on (although so far he hasn’t met anyone else, he says he doesn’t feel he ever will) and I’m in the same boat.

While it’s painful to simply be ‘close friends with a deep connection’, it would be unthinkable for both of us to sever our ties. It’s been all good…except for this longing for him which won’t die. I guess I can’t understand this: if he says his heart has not changed, and he still loves me, why then does he not want to be with me, why can’t we build some kind of future together? I feel inadequate, like I was not good enough for him, because of age…as his mom seems to think. Although he’s reassured me that I am “way good enough” (his words) and that it was never a question of that, but simply that he feels the age difference would be insurmountable, I still feel inadequate. I know I made the worst mistake by not telling him my age - and it cost me. I just can’t understand why, if he still loves me as always, in his mind it’s “not black and white’, and things are changed forever. If his heart still feels that special love as he claims, why won’t he want to give us a try? Being afraid to open yourself to vulnerability or build walls, (as he is doing) is no way to live. And while I’m thankful he’s remained a close part of my life, it still hurts and feels so strange to suddenly be his ‘ close friend/soul mate with no romantic intentions’. I'm unhappy most of the time. I know he is too.

He always admitted to me (long before our relationship ended) that he has a fear of his loved ones dying. For a while, I thought maybe because of our age differences he imagined the scenario of me being older down the road, and he couldn't face me going before him in the future. (?) I just can't comprehend why if he loves me as he says, won't he at least give it a TRY, and see if we could possibly work things out, rather than throw his hands up, and say "It's final". Life's too short to have regrets later, right? But then my mind also tells me, even if he is still in love with me, perhaps love is sometimes not enough. I'm so confused. :(

*As a footnote, last night we spoke for 90 minutes on the phone. Nothing's chancged, but just to give you more perspective as to how we connect, and how he feels: We were joking, singing, laughing, he still calls me pet names, etc. And he tells me "This evening was fun. I love you...I hope you know that". As you can imagine, my confusion is constant. He's still my best friend in the world.

I've already been raked over the coals for the terribly misguided mistake I made, by others I've confided in, and I appreciate and respect everyone's thoughts. If I could do it over, I would in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I can't. But what I could use right now, is a non judgmental way of sorting through this, so if you can offer something helpful/constructive, in the way of advice/insight, I would appreciate that a lot. Thanks in advance.

I am unclear about how long ago the truth came out. But, you know, maybe he just needs time? You've had a couple of years to deal with the age difference issues and he just found out.

Maybe send him a link to this site? He can read about many older women/younger men relationships that do last.

I am in one, but my brother was also the same age as your fella when he fell in love with a woman 12 years older than him. They have been married now for over 20 years.

Sometimes we all need time to sort through those myths and misconceptions about age gap relationships. I know I had to about my own, even though my brother had already been married to his wife for such a long time.

Give him time. At least he is willing to forgive you for lying about your age. Maybe he needs time to rebuild his trust as well as deal with the age issues.

Don't pressure him. Just show him the site and encourage him to consider learning more about successful age gap relationships.

And tell him what my fiance once told me... better to live and love for today than to worry about what might happen years down the road. No one knows what the future will bring.

I read your entire post. I'm sorry you're in this predicament.

Obviously, the lie was a very bad mistake. There's nothing you can do about it now. If I were in his shoes, I'd worry that if you told a big lie like that, and did not tell the truth when the relationship appeared as if it was going to be serious, you have the capacity to lie about other things as well.

I get the impression that Jason is not particularly mature. Any 33 (now 36?) year old man who lets his mother poison a potential relationship, is not an independent man. If he cries and feels sick after finding out you lied....that's not the reaction of a mature, healthy adult....who should have been confrontational and pissed at the very least....or dismissive if he was that upset.

The fact that he still wants you in his life, just not "romantically" isn't fair to either one of you. It means he can't let go of something he grew to depend on...just like mommy. It doesn't sound like a desirable place to be in a relationship, and I hope you get help to move ahead with your life.

I'm sorry to hear how things have gone.

Does he have any children? If he does not and wants them this may be a big reason why he can not get over the age difference.

Sounds like you both need some space to work through your feelings.

First of all, I'm sorry you're feeling so bad about what happened. Maybe if I tell you my story it will help you understand your friend's perspective.

I also met my husband online and corresponded for several months before meeting him in person. I was 19 at the time and he was 46. He told me his age from the very beginning and we started out as "friends", both believing it could never be anything more because of the age difference. But with time, things changed and we realized friendship was not enough. We were in love and began planning a future together. I must say that my family did a wonderful job supporting me and letting me make my own decisions. This was very important to me and I don't think I would have married him without my parents' blessings.

What I'm trying to say is that honesty is crucial in every relationship, but even more so when you meet online and have to rely on what the other person reveals about him or herself. If my husband had told me in the beginning that he was only 30 and I would have found out his real age later on, I would have felt betrayed, too, and would have withdrawn from him, at least for a while, and reconsidered my feelings for him. (Ironically, my husband's first wife was 16 years older than him and lied about her age as well. She even had fake IDs. He only found out her real age after the divorce when he met someone who went to school with her.)

12 years is really not a very big gap and if the love is still there on both sides, then I don't see why it would be an obstacle at all. Just give him time to get used to the thought of being the younger partner.

I would see his mother as a bigger problem. A grown man should not submit to his mother's opinion like that. If your relationship continues she will always be in the background and you can only hope that her son is able to shake off her judgmental attitude. You should ask yourself if he really is mature enough for a future with you. Family support and positive attitudes can help a relationship termendously and relatives who don't approve of you can bring you down if you cannot distance yourself from them. If he continues to follow his mother's advice in important issues of HIS life, he probably is not the right guy for you (or just not ready for any serious relationship).

Hopefully, your story will have a happy outcome for both of you and you make the right decision whatever it may be.

I read your entire post. I'm sorry you're in this predicament.

Obviously, the lie was a very bad mistake. There's nothing you can do about it now. If I were in his shoes, I'd worry that if you told a big lie like that, and did not tell the truth when the relationship appeared as if it was going to be serious, you have the capacity to lie about other things as well.

I get the impression that Jason is not particularly mature. Any 33 (now 36?) year old man who lets his mother poison a potential relationship, is not an independent man. If he cries and feels sick after finding out you lied....that's not the reaction of a mature, healthy adult....who should have been confrontational and pissed at the very least....or dismissive if he was that upset.

The fact that he still wants you in his life, just not "romantically" isn't fair to either one of you. It means he can't let go of something he grew to depend on...just like mommy. It doesn't sound like a desirable place to be in a relationship, and I hope you get help to move ahead with your life.

Good post, Kat and depicted some of my thoughts too.

For me, I don't care how much I connect with a guy or how much I might love him, if he lied to me, it would be a total dealbreaker. Because I do feel that if a person lies to you about one thing, they are capable of lying to you about anything that suits them.

I also agree that I felt from reading the original post that Jason's maturity level might not be where it should be for his age. Or maybe his is just late getting into the relationship scenario and doesn't know how to handle things. I would have been furious if he went through my things and had not just confronted me with his (or his mother's, in this case) suspicions. But then I would not have lied to him in the first place.

I know you came here for support and you will get plenty of it here as this site is overflowing with caring and supportive people. But I do have to offer a bit of harsh reality here. It is this type of scenario that makes people want to depict us as "cougars" who are on the hunt for innocent young men. That we are deceptively reeling in the young men into our webs as prey. And this guy's (Jason) mother sounds exactly like the type of woman who will promote that idea about us.

I am sorry this happened to you and I feel your pain, but I have always said that everything we go through makes us stronger and that life is a learning experience. Hopefully you will be stronger after going through this and in the future you will start new relationships with total honesty. There is never anything to gain by being dishonest, whether it be outright dishonesty or by omission.

I will tell you what a wise friend told me she had learned. She said, "One advantage we have as we get older is that we learn we WILL survive." And you will survive this too. You will come out of this stronger and hopefully wiser.

Whether there is any chance for this relationship seems to be totally up to Jason now. And I will tell you that it doesn't matter how much he loves you, there are some of the young guys who just can't wrap their head around the age difference and it becomes a total block for them.

For me, I would not want to be in constant contact with a guy that I was in love with and share our lives through daily conversation if I knew that there was no hope whatsoever. It looks desperate . . . like if you can't have all of him, you will take any part that you can get. I would be more likely to sever all ties. For me, the constant contact would be like continuing to pour salt into a wound. But that is me and you know what you can handle.

Continue to come here and post here and you will see that age does not matter and there are plenty of people who believe that. Perhaps if you had been armed with those facts and insights in the beginning of your relationship with Jason, you would not have been tempted to withhold your true age from him.

Good luck to you and hang in there. Life does go on, whether we like it or not. Prepare youself to not let it pass you by. :)

Lying about your age in the beginning of your relationship can't be changed. I doubt if any of your communications discussed age. Of course it would be better if you had told him when you were getting serious. What really stands out to me is the "mother" situation and his going through your purse. It could be that because most of your relationship has been at a distance, there were things you could not know until you were together in person, for example his relationship with his mother. If he does love you, the age shouldn't matter that much unless he wants children. If it does bother him that much, he should not string you on by being "just a friend." Since you didn't feel secure enough to tell him your age long before now, it must make you feel less secure to be told off by mom. If you lose him because of his mother, you may be better off without him.

Tell Jason when he dumps his Mother you'll be willing to re-start the relationship....

I am sorry but people who fixate on lies about age are taking things way too seriously. My bf and I lied about our ages, and we survived the lie.

I think that you should ask him for space (no communication) until your feelings for him have changed to the point of you not wanting him anymore romantically or until he figures out that he does want you romantically. Otherwise this is a cruel cruel situation to be in.

Maybe one day you can be just friends but not now. True love survives lies way more serious than age. People have forgiven each other over cheating, over major financial issues, drug dependency, etc... and they have continued forgiving and forgetting. He is just using this lie as justification to himself to do what mommy wants.

I agree that his mother was really out of line by writing you that email, but the mother isn't the issue here.

I don't generally think lying about age is a big deal... a few years here, a few years there, whatever... I don't do it, but i don't think it's a huge deal (and as for the idea that someone capable of lying about age is capable of lying about other stuff too...find me someone who has never told a lie) IN GENERAL.

However... and I'm not saying this to be rude or harsh or anything: saying you are 33 when you are in fact 45 has so many implications regarding your futures together. If he wants to have children, this is a huge, HUGE deal. It's not something as simple as "He may outlive me". Did he want children? Was it implied that children might be part of your future together?

I'm sorry you are going through this, and I'm sorry for his pain as well. His mother is a busybody, but that's irrelevant.

BTW, I don't see the fact that he cried as a sign that he's emotionally immature or something. Men cry sometimes, fact.

12 years is really not a very big gap and if the love is still there on both sides, then I don't see why it would be an obstacle at all. Just give him time to get used to the thought of being the younger partner.

I would see his mother as a bigger problem. A grown man should not submit to his mother's opinion like that. If your relationship continues she will always be in the background and you can only hope that her son is able to shake off her judgmental attitude. You should ask yourself if he really is mature enough for a future with you. Family support and positive attitudes can help a relationship termendously and relatives who don't approve of you can bring you down if you cannot distance yourself from them. If he continues to follow his mother's advice in important issues of HIS life, he probably is not the right guy for you (or just not ready for any serious relationship).

Totally agree, Cordula...couldn't have said it better.

August, I'm sorry you are going through this right now...I was with a ym for almost 4 years whose mother vehemently, actively, HATED that I was in his life (because of my age and that I was nearly beyond biological child-bearing age). You can't win when the mom is so vocal and manipulative, and the guy actually allows himself to be influenced by that. My ym was only 21 though....at 33 your ym should definitely be able to stand his own ground against mom for the woman he loves.

I guess my point is that, like Cordula and Whiterose said, it may just take some time for him to work through the whole lie/betrayal issues he may feel and rethink his AG philosophy a bit (after all, he was kinda slammed with the truth and forced to react). BUT (and it's a BIG but) .... if he can't get past the AG thing (honey, your gap is really small and inconsequential really....actually, since women outlive men and retain their healthy libidos longer, you just about have the right age difference!:p ), it will never work. And...if mom is such an influential force in his decision-making at 33 or 35, that will never change.

If you want closure, and to be able to move on to a healthy/successful relationship, I say that after a couple of weeks, if the subject about his disdain for the age gap does not change, you should sever ties and move on. It will feel like a death, but you just can't keep hanging on to this "best friend in the world", always wishing you could have more with him. You are 45 (48?)....don't let life pass you by while you hope against hope.

On the other hand, if he realizes you are the same person you were that he always cared about (just 12 years older), and he is not concerned about having biological kids, AND he indicates realivitely SOON that he's rethought the AG issue and realizes he was totally stupid for letting you go (AND his mom moves to Siberia:rolleyes: )...there may be a chance. But you know, what the best way to find that out is? The same answer as severing the relationship: Distance...no contact initiated by you. That allows him to think everything through independently (without you being a psuedo-girlfriend/best friend/ semi-soulmate), and realize whether he loves you enough to beat the odds.
Hanging on , talking and being emotionally dependent on him under these current circumstances is just plain not healthy for you, hon.

I also wanted to say that your post was heartfelt and addressed an issue that many women have posted about here in the past. I think I will refer to this thread in the future (if you don't mind) when someone else mentions that they have lied or are considering lying about their age to insure a partner will be open to a relationship. It's usually conuterproductive, and retelling your situation may in fact help others in the future. The wisdom you gained can benefit others...and when you know better, you do better, right?

That's one positive here, remember that.

Supportive hug here for you,
Karen

I am sorry but people who fixate on lies about age are taking things way too seriously. My bf and I lied about our ages, and we survived the lie.

I think that you should ask him for space (no communication) until your feelings for him have changed to the point of you not wanting him anymore romantically or until he figures out that he does want you romantically. Otherwise this is a cruel cruel situation to be in.

Maybe one day you can be just friends but not now. True love survives lies way more serious than age. People have forgiven each other over cheating, over major financial issues, drug dependency, etc... and they have continued forgiving and forgetting. He is just using this lie as justification to himself to do what mommy wants.

girl i second this one.

It's not as much the age gap, as the fact that you betrayed his trust. That's the biggie. It will take him time to get over it, but to me, it sounds like he's already getting over it because he can't stop talking to you.

Men are like rubberbands, they might stretch away and distance themselves, but eventually, they bounce back to you.

The biggest obstacle, should you two resume a romantic relationship, will be facing his mother, who doesn't want to see his son hurt and sees you as a predator of sorts. You should e-mail her and tell her that you respect her love for her son, and that your intentions were all good...that you WERE all set to tell him your age and couldn't find the right time. You made a huge mistake, you're sorry, and you'll never lie about anything again...lying isn't who you really are.

After that, what happens, happens. I'm sure his mother will take a long time to get over this, and you can't blame her. Lying is a big thing. Lying about being 12 years older than someone else is even bigger. That's a really big age gap to some people. I personally have a bigger gap than that with my ym, but to some people, a man FOUR years younger is big!

Damage has been done, but all is not lost. The fact that he still calls you pet names and says he loves you speaks volumes. Hang in there and accept the consequences for your actions. Make a better choice next time. :)

I am sorry but people who fixate on lies about age are taking things way too seriously. My bf and I lied about our ages, and we survived the lie.

I think that you should ask him for space (no communication) until your feelings for him have changed to the point of you not wanting him anymore romantically or until he figures out that he does want you romantically. Otherwise this is a cruel cruel situation to be in.

Maybe one day you can be just friends but not now. True love survives lies way more serious than age. People have forgiven each other over cheating, over major financial issues, drug dependency, etc... and they have continued forgiving and forgetting. He is just using this lie as justification to himself to do what mommy wants.
I totally agree with this one, I lied for months about my age to my vym, when I finally confessed to the age lie and several other omitted facts I was fully prepared to suffer the consequences as hes a guy that HATES lies and liars, but all he said was "Meh!! Its all ok. " his exact wording. I didnt tell him another lie, I'm not an habitual liar so it doesnt always hold that if someone tells you a lie about their age they can then lie about anything.(I was only lying because I had started a little game with another guy I was previously linked with, I was pretending to be someone else and thats when I met my vym, so the lie wasnt actually to him, just that he got embroiled in it too)
Give him some time to start missing you properly and see what happens but I do think that you shouldnt allow him to use and abuse you coz you lied! I think that him carrying on the relationship on HIS terms regardless of how you feel is emotional abuse and maybe a little bit of a punishment too. (sorry just my opinion you know):o Oh and as a grown woman you dont need to be punished , you dont get to *pay *for this lie babe otherwise where will it end. You aplogised and thats enough, dont listen to people that tell you to just accept it.

Telling a lie about your age was not sensible, but understandable at the start of an online friendship. My ym did the same to me, making himself 5 years older! I was surprised, and a little upset when the truth came out. For me it was both the issue of trust, and that our age gap was even bigger than I imagined initially.

We have got over it though, and have a strong and loving relationship now where everything is always out in the open. Maybe time will heal his doubts, and prevent him from throwing away the real thing...your mutual love.

As to his mother, that is something you will both need to come to terms with. She sees him hurt by you, but in trying to help him she is denying him a wonderful future sharing his life with you.
I do hope things work out for you both.

Just a point, but the way I read it she lied about her age for 2 years, perhaps more?

Can you not understand why he might be a little upset. I would be if I'd been lied to for that long.

It's get-overable though.

You know what is interesting? :)

Back in the 1940's, 50's and 60's you never even asked a woman her age. If you did, and she was over 40, it was perfectly appropriate for her to demurely answer "39" (year after year). AND I am talking about all the way to the honeymoon. :)

I agree with Rob and with Polly.

I'm not trying to be hard on you, because I am certain you are hard enough on yourself. There had to be about a million opportunities to tell him your age over that 2-1/2 year period of time. Gosh hon, I do understand being nervous/scared and not wanting to tell him, and then wanting to wait until you were in person. But I think waiting the 2-1/2 years until you met in person was just wrong. I know you know that now. We all make mistakes though, and don't be so hard on yourself. But we can see how he certainly would feel betrayed. When you feel you share everything with someone and it's an open book situation, and then you find out the other person has been lying/keeping a secret the entire time, it's like a punch in the gut. Like you said, it would have been nice if he just would have come to you and asked, but then that would have been quite awkward. "My mom says you look older than your age, are you sure your not older?" That could have been quite an offensive remark had you really been the age you stated, and I'm sure not something he wanted to imply.

I can't tell you how many times I have seen a similar situation posted here on the site.... :(

Even knowing both parties ages up front, it takes a while to wrap your mind around an age-gap relationship, both for the people involved and for their families. To find out in a shocking way such as this, it will take even more time because you are now not dealing only with the age gap but also with trust issues/dishonesty. I think that, with time, he will come around. I can't really decipher how much time has passed since he discovered your age, but it sounds like he is coming around. When two people are meant to be, they overcome most anything with time and effort, and I hope that happens for you.

As for the mom, every mom is protective of her son, and of course she has not gotten the best impression of you because of this incident. However, for goodness sake, this guy is in his 30's and she does need to BUTT OUT. Hey lady, cut that apron string.

Oh what a mess, not only the lie but the way it came out. Life's lessons are often learned the hard way, as you're finding out now. You must both be hurting.

I've never been in your position as I've never lied to my vym nor him to me, though I was embarrassed to tell him my age. It was never an issue for him though, but had I actually lied I think things would have been very different.

I think one of the big issues here, as others have said, is whether he wants children. For some men, they can cope with the thought of not having them - whereas other guys dream of having their own daddy's girl or son to grow up just like him. Personally, my guy tells me that if we stay together, that he can live without having children if it doesn't happen (apart from the age gap, me being less than maternal and him being nowhere near ready, I have endometriosis which makes conceiving more difficult even if we wanted to try), as it's me he wants more than anything else. But we've talked all this through honestly. Whereas you've got yourself embroiled in a lengthy relationship and then your man has suddenly got all these issues to deal with, and had his possible dreams for the future shattered, all because of a lie such a long time ago. He must be feeling confused and betrayed, yet he must still have love for you - I do feel for the guy. He can't be in a nice place right now.

I do think that his mother is being harsh but she's obviously being over protective towards her son and is painting you as being some evil predator, which is unfair. You've made a big mistake, sure, and you're paying for that as much as her son is, it doesn't make you cruel or a bad person.

I agree with the others here - continued communication is only going to keep the wound open. You need to back off and have some space to yourself and allow him the same - only then can you begin to straighten all this out in your heads and either gain closure and move on or accept that you both still want to be together regardless and make a go of it. Only time apart will bring you both the clarity of thought needed to make the right decision.

Good luck.

Thank you for all your feedback, insight and advice. It's all very well taken - and very appreciated.

I really think I need to clear something up though. Jason has made it extremely clear that he has long forgiven the mistruth about my age. True, he's said that at first he felt "like the biggest chump" (his words) but then he came to understand why I did it. (Again his words). he's told me to stop "blaming myself" because he doesn't blame me and has forgiven me completely. His justification for ending the romantic aspect is simply "I know down the road it just won't work and I tell myself 'on't do this, you can't have what you want" When I try to ask him WHY, what does he mean, etc. he tends to build this 'safety net' saying it's just "too painful to discuss anymore" since we al;ready "talked it to death". However his actions tell me - and he tells me this often - that he still loves me. Not just the pet names and loving affection, but his sincere concern for my well being, etc. He's said to me I can't imagine life without you in it. It's just one big confusing mess to me.

As for severing all ties to see what might happen, I can't find the strength to do this. Firstly, because it would hurt to much for me AND him too. And I think ultimately we'd both end up losing. Because, despite the hurt of not being together romantically now, every time we speak, it's mostly so good, so positive, so upbeat and happy. In fact, he's told me that when we are talking - and joking, and laughing, and singing our silly little songs - it is the happiest he's been all day. And I feel the same. How can either of uas walk away from this:confused: ???

Thanks again for letting me vent and get things off my chest.

As a final footnote, yes he's said he does want children of his own someday. But in all fairness, you wouldn't you give someone up, whom you were in love with if you were married and later found out they couldn't bear children? I know it's not the same thing, but love is love.

As a final footnote, yes he's said he does want children of his own someday. But in all fairness, you wouldn't you give someone up, whom you were in love with if you were married and later found out they couldn't bear children? I know it's not the same thing, but love is love.

Well, some people do, some people don't.

I'd wager that people who wouldn't find it difficult to understand why some people do. But, some people in this world will just not be able to be happy without having a biological child. For some people it is so ingrained in them that they can't be happy without that experience.

I don't know whether your guy is one of those, the only thing I can suggest is that you get him to ask some serious questions of himself.

Why does he feel like he needs to have a child?

When I ask myself that question I find that I don't have a reason that actually makes sense to me. I know it's possible to love a child that is not biologically yours. I know it's possible to have the same experiences with them too. I don't feel any sort of urge to 'further my family line' or keep the name going. Heck, when we get married i don't even want my gf to take my name, i don't see the point and I think hers is nicer!!!!! I know that the only reason that I've thought, in the past, that I would have a wife and biological child is because it's kind of expected and 'normal'. Society tells us that is what we do, generally. I'm pretty good at dismissing what society tells me I'm supposed to be though, it depends on your guy.

Ultimately it's up to him and what he feels. I don't think there's a great deal you can do about it, other than get him to think about it clearly and be completely honest with you and, as importantly, himself.

He might just need some time to get over it.

My ex lied to me about his age for a good year. He told me he was 47 when he was really 56.

I was able to get over the lie...but what really got me...was that I lost 9 years in the blink of an eye.

That was really hard for me to get over...and partly led to our break up.

But if he's still acting like yall are together...but saying yall are just friends...maybe he just needs time to wrap his head around losing 12 years of your life.

Nadine.

I kind of found this sight by accident and registered to reply specifically to your post. I am 56, married 15 years (first time) to a woman 10 years older. When we met she stated her age as only 3 years older.

First I must say age was never an issue with me. At 16 I lived with a woman 37 which lasted 20 years until she died I was never lied to by her and things were perfect.

After dating perhaps a dozen girls I met my wife and married her after dating 3 years. I then found out about her lie. Her drivers license was even wrong, I discovered it by errant remarks from her family members.

The issue here is not about age difference it is about broken trust. I was devestated after I found out and our relationship has not been the same nor will it ever be. I laid all my cards on the table and expected her to do the same when we married. Her lie said to me that she did not trust me enough to make decisions. We are still married and enjoy time together. We are more now like roomates than lovers. After forcing myself twice to try, I gave up having sex with her and have been celibate for years. I can no longer even kiss her.

I lost face and it was also a nightmare straightening out SS and medical records,ect. and many false documents I mistakingly signed. I also made some bad investments because of the shortened time line in my retirement investment strategy.

All this could have been avoided by simply telling the truth to begin with. To compound matters my wife never apologized but rather engaged in spin and excuses. I am still angry and hurt and will ever completely trust in her. I think only an affair would have hurt worse.

My advice would fork into 2 directions. My first instinct would be to end it and start over with someone else. It is very hard to mend trust,once there is betrayal. You do not seem to want to give him up and follow this obvious logical path.

The other fork would be to apologize and say you will never lie to him again. The fact that he talks to you means he does not wish to let go. A 33 year old who still lives with his mother is immature. She seems to be an authority figure. After apologizing,never mention it again and make him agree to this. I would then aggressively persue him and take the mothers place as his authority figure. You have a huge advantage over her in that you can control his sex life. This is a driving preoccupation with a 33 year old man. You may mistakingly feel your relationship is far beyond this stage but you hardly know this man. He most likely is still fascinated with your cleavage. Always be pleasant to mother and never engage in a power contest directly with her, you will loose. Instead do a number on her son using sex as a weapon.Ration it out sparingly. Use your age and experience as an advantage. This is the type of man you will have to lead around for the rest of your life. Spell out everthing you want from him and let him know when he displeases you in the slightest. The more you do this the more he will strive to win your approval. The more domineering and demanding you are, the more he will try to please, worship and follow you. When the sexual attraction wanes you will still have him because you will be the one providing needed structure in his life. Hopefully by the you will have developed a deeper love other than physical attraction and fantasy. If this is the type of relationship you want,go for it. Just realize what you are getting into. Just my opinion.

Dale

Dale, I am so dumbfounded by your post, all I can say is :eek: :eek: :eek:

In my attempts to come to terms and deal with my feelings for a 27 year old man (I'm 47), I have been reading threads/posts here at ageless as well as a couple of other sites. This struggle and understanding will take a while I can see that. But this thread has helped me realize a couple of things. Not sure if I can express them well. But it strikes me how sad it is what a mere concept of a Number can do to us? I'm 47 and proud of it. I never lie about my age if asked, although I don't have it tattooed on my forehead either.

The reason I know my YM friend's age is that I looked him up on Yahoo people and also he had a blog on a website, which confirm it. Unless he also looked me up somewhere and found my age, he has no clue what my age is. Also, he has no clue that I know how old HE is because he has never told me. I have hinted my age, telling him what I was doing during a certain year and he has done the same, but never a direct mention of the number. I even told him it was my birthday, which was last month and said, "I'm going to be OLD." He never asked me my age, all he said was "Happy Birthday!" Every time I have given him a line that would naturally lead to him asking, "Just how old ARE you?" He never asks. He just smiles. That's it. And usually people think I'm late 30s/40ish. Reading this thread, I really appreciate and respect that my YM friend chooses NOT to ask me my age.

DALE: What I would say to you is, if you are choosing to stay with your wife, I ask that you consider forgiveness. You are both victims of society's arbitrary attitudes based on numbers. And at 56 and 66, you both come from an era where the OW/YM thing was much more taboo than it is today. It may have not been a problem for you since you lived with a woman so much older at age 16, but for your wife, it may have been a psychological feat that was too difficult for her. Has she betrayed you in any other way? There isn't that much time left, I would do a little soul-searching if I were you and ask yourself why you can't forgive her for that and yet you stay with her.

Her lie said to me that she did not trust me enough to make decisions.No, her lie said that she did not trust that she was more than a number and enough as a person. Looks like in this case she was right. :(

Your advice about using sex as a weapon to manipulate the YM is WORSE than telling a lie. :(

I feel sorry for you that you were not able to let go of your pride and deal with this and LET IT GO. Did your vows not say "for better or worse"? If this is the only major problem from your marriage, then you missed an opportunity to forgive and get beyond this. I feel so sorry for your continued pain and bitterness. So sad....

No, her lie said that she did not trust that she was more than a number and enough as a person. Looks like in this case she was right. :(


Actually, I think that it's a bit of both. She didn't allow him to make the decision himself. SHE didn't give him the information that he required to show her that she is more than a number. She didn't trust him to believe that.

You could say that her age shouldn't matter. But if so, then why lie about it? You can't explain away lying about something by saying it'doesn't matter' because, IMO, you're negating your reason for lying in the first place. You only lie about things that DO matter, to you or to someone else.

Imagine being the YM who then has to tell everyone else he knows that his wife had lied to him for x number of years? I sure as hell would not want to be that person. It is NOT nice being lied to, for whatever reason, particularly not if it's over an extended period of time.

And, no, I didn't like the using sex as a weapon thing either. Also manipulative and controlling.

After reading the initial post I had some observations. Although the mans true age is 33,he still lives at home an has not been out in the world making his own way. Developmentally he is still around 18 still attached to his mothers apron strings. This again is an observation, not criticism.Most 33 year old or even 18 year old men would not ask for parental approval for picking a mate. In reality she is competing against the mother.

A direct challenge to he mother would be counter productive as the man would get defensive. Who knows the boy better an has more influence than the mother?. The poster barely knows the man. I saw no pragmatic reasons why they would make a compatable couple other than fantasy assumptions.She is obsessed with him and does not wish to let go. Rather than confrontation, I would make an end run around the mother. She holds some trumph cards over the mother, in that she can dazzle him with her sexuality.

I am not speaking of this in the mechanical sense I mean flirting,teasing and everything which occurs during a courtship. Women have been using their sexuality to manipulate,attract and keep a man since the beginning of recorded history. Whether it was a cave woman keeping a man around for protection or a girl lifting her skirt a bit to beat a traffic ticket, human nature has not changed. Sexuality is of the strongest human needs and its power can not be minimized,a simple fact of nature as much as flowers blooming in the spring. I think people who do not realize this have very myopic view of life.

As far as the lie,I would apologize once,then no longer discuss it. The problem with a lie is that it snowballs and produces collaterial fish tails. In my case I never received an apology. In fact the whole thing was spun as being my fault. Right from the beginning I revealed my most intimate secrets. As I mentioned stories started to be inconsistant. After a while I do not what is true and what is not. At 45 I was looking for a marriage without deceit and headgames. I do not feel my loyalty was returned.

Back to the original post,suppose the man involved was searching the internet and wanted a mate to marry and have children? Is the mother a selfish person because maybe she wanted her son to produce grand children? If this is a priority in his lifes goal then this woman wasted 3 years of his life. Simple honesty in the beginning could have avoided all this. She could have told the truth and still wound up with him. Again this is not about age difference ,it is about honesty and character.

Dale H

Yes, Dale it is about honesty and integrity. And I sense a good bit of bitterness in you about your situation. I will tell you that bitterness can and will eat you up if you let it. You need to be able to forgive or wak away. Otherwise you will turn into a very bitter, unhappy and vindictive person.

As to the issue of finding a woman to have children with. If that is all a man is looking for, then he should find a surrogate for his children. There is NEVER any guarantee that a woman will be able to bear children (regardless of her age) and unless the man has been tested, there is no guarantee that he can father children. I would have been livid when I was younger to think that a man wanted me for the sole purose of being a brood mare. I like to think that two people come together and eventually marry because they love each other, enjoy each other's company and want to share a life together . . . and if God blesses them with children, then so much the better . . . but it's not an absolute.

And, while I'm on this rant, it raises my hackles to read that you think that ALL women are manipulative and use their wiles to manuipulate men on a regular basis to get what they want. I do not believe I have ever done that and I don't think a lot of other women do that either. Believe it or not, some of us to have some integrity and scruples. :)

I would have been livid when I was younger to think that a man wanted me for the sole purose of being a brood mare. I like to think that two people come together and eventually marry because they love each other, enjoy each other's company and want to share a life together . . . and if God blesses them with children, then so much the better . . . but it's not an absolute.


Good point, Peachy!

How would any woman like to be that woman down the line, who is runner up to the women that he REALLY loves/loved, just because you are of child-bearing years! :mad:

And, as pointed out, just becauses she's the "right" age, doesn't mean that she'll be able to have kids.

A good friend of mine, in her early 30's, found out she can't have kids, just after I found out I was having a baby at 39!

I did not say that child bearing is all a man should look for. I said it could be a criteria for picking a mate. Modern marriage laws after all were formulated primarily to protect children. This is something to consider before time and nature takes its toll.
In my case I opted for a vacsectomy at 18 because my mate at 38 did not desire more children.

What is omitted in the original post is more revealing than what is stated. No menton is made of children,future or past,divorces,careers or religion. All I stated is that if she wants the guy go for him,she will not get another chance. If it does not work out there will be less regrets than if she did not try. The type of man she described will have to be led, he will not act on his own.

I have been around he block a few times and have seen a lot. I have seen many disfunctional girls such as an 18 year old with 2 babies with some bozo's name tatooed across her belly who was long gone. These girls themselves still children will in turn raise disfunctional children. Too bad the mother did not get across value and respect for her body.

The woman in my first relationship raised 2 daughters both who became successful professionals with masters degrees. They are with their husbands because they choose to be not out of dependance or necessity.

In my case if I wanted a relationship I had to be responsible and do things to please her as preconditions. I have many skills and talents I can offer a woman. I can build on an addition to her house and fix things. But I can also do housework,laundry and cleaning as she taught me how and I have. I can iron a blouse or handwash delicate lingerie. I am also a skilled lover because she taught me that too. In exchange she taught me about integrity and how to succeed at life. Without conditions and challenges I would have remained irresponsible, quickly bored, and long gone.

What has the man in question who lives 600 miles away offered or done for this woman other than telling her she has pretty eyes or something? What is so wrong about demanding and setting standards for a mate?
So she meets him in person,wears a nice sexy outfit, engages in a little petting then abruptly ends it.
"Look Bozo if you want me then stop dating other women,move here,get a good job to keep me in the lifestyle I am accustomed to. Im 45 and dont have a lot of time left so let me know. Oh and by the way I like my feet rubbed and massages" Send him home with a final passionate kiss and let him sleep on it, yes all hot and bothered. Call this manipulative if you want I all it gender roleplaying and the battle of the sexes. Pretty much as consistant as the law of gravity.

Dale

Call this manipulative if you want I all it gender roleplaying and the battle of the sexes. Pretty much as consistant as the law of gravity.

Dale

I call it game playing and I'm not playing. If I am attracted to a guy, I tell him and if he's attracted to me, he'd better say something or I'm gone! Nuff said. :cool:

Thats the whole problem Peachy
People act on attraction alone rather than making rational pragmatic decisions, reasoning if it will work out long term. It then becomes a shotgun approach to relationships and results in the degradation of quality.

Dale

I was not speaking of attraction in the sense of looks . . . I was speaking of being attracted to the whole package, of which looks and age is a very minute part.

So was I Peachy,however physical attraction is the initial attraction. That is how nature set it up. Natural selection would not allow attraction to people who were sickly looking,the human race would not perpetuate itself if that happened.

Men and women are attracted differently however. Funny thing there was a study at a university once of men watching a news cast in three random control groups.The first group watched a male newscaster,the second a rather homely looking woman,and the third watched a very attractive young woman,the typical type seen on cable news channels. At the end of the viewing a test was given as to retention of the news imformation given. The first 2 groups had over a 90% retention rate of the content,while the third group had less than a 30% retention rate. A similar study on women did not have similar results. They listened to all three equally. Other types of studies have yielded similar results.

This is nothing to be taken personally it is just the way the male human brain normally functions.
BTW I did not suggest the woman not let the guy know that she was attracted to him. I suggested setting standards before establishing a physical relationship.

And if you do not think women flirt, just walk into any store and see how some of them dress.Personally I do not find seeing rings through navels or the cracks of their behinds that appealing as well as the body tattoos but I guess that is a generational thing.

Dale

Dale

So was I Peachy,however physical attraction is the initial attraction. That is how nature set it up. Natural selection would not allow attraction to people who were sickly looking,the human race would not perpetuate itself if that happened.

I would counter that in today's world with the internet, there are probably more than a few of us who were attracted to our guys without ever having set eyes on his physical attributes {raises hand}. I did not see so much as a picture of my guy nor he of me before we decided to meet in person, but I already knew before that first meeting that I was attracted enough to make the effort to meet him face-to-face.

And if you do not think women flirt, just walk into any store and see how some of them dress.

Ah, I never said women did not flirt . . . of course we do . . . as do men . . . but flirting, in my opinion is quite different than playing head games and being manipulative.

Personally I do not find seeing rings through navels or the cracks of their behinds that appealing as well as the body tattoos but I guess that is a generational thing.

No, I would say it's more a personal preference. I am of your generation and I have two tattoos.


.

Peachy

I am really glad everything worked out for you. I guess I am more of a traditionalist,though I had a very unconventional past. I still am a Sophia Loren fan,probably the way I was brought up. The whole internet thing is pretty new to me. It is very powerful and can be used for very good or bad purposes. However even your arrangement involved trust and honesty. He could have been married,or a con artist.

BTW I am not bitter against my wife,I just can no longer be intimate. I cant help how feel. She also says I am too honest and trusting and considers it a weakness.Go figure.

Dale

Interesting comments Dale.

Too bad the mother did not get across value and respect for her body.
I have had several therapists tell me that it is the FATHER teaches the daughter how to relate to men, not the Mother. Just something to think about.

I do agree that the YM does sound immature. But I don't think I would even want a guy that has to be manipulated into doing something. Moma's boys seldom change... :rolleyes:

Yellow Rose

Many times the father is not around. Mine sure was not. It was an older woman who clued me in on life. I agree mamas boys seldom change. My initial advice was to dump him and start anew but the lady seems obsessed with him and does not wish to let go. So we have to use Plan B. If you want the guy simply take the place of the mother. He may not necessarily be a bad husband,he just has to be led. Since my mom died when I was 16, I did not have a chance to be a mamas boy. The older woman I befriended was a very tough cookie way ahead of her time. I actually have some gentle feminine qualities,very artistic, but I am also self supporting and strong.

Dale

Many times the father is not around.That is right! So the daughter has a bottomless-pit hunger for a man's attention. :(

All the talk in the world from Mama isn't going to fill that empty hole. Only a man's attention will do that (temporarily anyway). :rolleyes:

I think that Dale actually has some valid points. If the guy is attached to his mama, then perhaps he does need a more dominant female in his life. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. We all have different needs and wants. Wanting a more dominant partner, even on a subconscious level, isn't necessarily a bad thing -- it's simply a matter of preference.

I don't agree with using sex to manipulate people, but on the other hand, I see the point that Dale is trying to make. We all have used our sexuality to some degree or another in trying to woo our partners. His thought may not be too off base. If there is already a sexual attraction between the OP and her guy, they may just need a little more in person time together to help persuade him to finally make that break. And a little sexual chemistry never hurt anything. ;)

Yellow rose made a great point - my mother never ever tells her age except to her doctor! She believes that a woman's age is her own damn business. Why are we so age obsessed anyway??? Usually, when someone asks me my age, which I consider a personal question and rude unless they have gotten to know me, I answer with "why do you ask?" This puts the onus on them for asking. Recently, however, a man - at least 15 years older than me, by the way, and a complete stranger in a bar, asked my age. He was so rude that I looked him right in the eye and said "what size is your c..k?" :eek: That shut him up. I tend to think our society is youth-obsessed and I refuse to play along. Just my 2 cents.

I agree....

Anyway I doubt very much that the agegap is really the big issue. I think the real issue here is that the guy lives at home under his mother's `heavy influence' , she doesn't want him to leave, and he's either too dependent or too submissive to stand up for what he wants. Everyone's making a big issue about the lie regarding the agegap, when the real issue is the fact that mommy doesn't want to face an empty nest, and the Son does not have the strength to stand up to her. This is the really issue....his peace-making nature and the way it controls him.

He probably thinks that one day he'll meet some girl the mother totally likes, and he'll peacefully move into that relationship. I think the truth is more likely to be that she'll find fault with every woman he meets, because she doesn't want to face life without her son at living at home. The only person who can stop this is him.

I agree with dale that the OP has a lot more power than she thinks....and she has some potential positive influence in this situation, if she will put aside her insecurites and focus on the real issues at hand (the mother's power over her son).

If it were me, I would spell it all out to the guy logically...tell him truthfully how I feel about him and what I want from him. I'd be so bold as to articulate the unhealthy power dynamic I see between his mother and son (but sympathetically). And I would NOT accept `best friends' because that would be a big lie. I would tell him I want him...I'd offer to let him live with me so he wouldn't be so dependent on his mother. Half the problem is he depends on her for too many of his survival needs, and he won't be able to grow emotionally until he's out of that situation.

Just my humble opinion:)

:D LA Girl! That was priceless! Don't we wish we all knew that answer before gettin in over our head (so to speak). :o

Mamas boys can make good partners as the term itself implies a respect for women. I am a bit of a history buff. One of the most famous man fitting this description was Douglass MacArthur, supreme Pacific commander in WW2. He always lived with or near his mother until she died. He did not marry one of his initial loves because of his mothers disapproval. His future wives kind of took his mothers place as he placed them on a pedestal. Cant say old Doug was not successful. The womans influence in his life may have also reflected in his leadership qualities as concern for his men was an important criteria in his battle strategy.

Bernard Montgomery the British general grew up under a strict governess who walloped him all the time with a cane. No one thinks of him as a mamas boy.
Patten wrote poetry,not exactly masculine in nature.

Then there is good old Prince Charles. Marries a beautiful Princess then dumps her for an older, more matronly woman. Perhaps he was seeking a more maternal type woman. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I dont think Camilla enticed Charles by being timid or shy. Her age and wrinkles were actually an asset in her case. She is not out getting face lifts to look younger and she has Charles under her thumb.
This goes on all the time with ordinary people too. All I am saying is if she wants the guy go for it,you only live once. An dont worry about the rules,all is fair in love and war.

Dale

Dale,

Good in theory perhaps, bad on paper. Most men I know who have tremendous respect for their mothers are NOT mama's boys.

Mama's boys are abnormally attached, and do things like this guy did: when he found out he'd been lied to, he cried and got sick.

I'm in no way implying men shouldn't cry. But this was an abreaction. Nor am I indicating that he shouldn't have been upset and hurt. However, his reaction was over the top and implies tremendous immaturity given the entire picture.