Hi Guys! Just an update

It's been awhile, but I still come here regularly and catch-up on all the posting. Never really feel I have much to add to other's questions since I don't have much expertise in this area, but I still feel that I learn a lot here!

Had lunch with my YM yesterday. After not having any contact with him since the day after our last lunch (yes, ladies, I DID listen and DID NOT initiate contact with him AT ALL! I was quite proud of myself and yes, it was very hard!) I was excited and nervous to see him. I really didn't know what to expect. I did, however, know that I was going to try and dial the intensity between us "down a notch" so to speak. He sent me a text and said he would see me on Monday.

I greet him and sit with him while he plays the tournament. He ends up losing pretty early and we stand by the front doors and talk again. I ask if he wants to go sit down and he says, "Yes, would you like to have lunch?"

Will try to make a long story short. First and foremost...not ONE word about the age difference this time!!! Whoo hoo!! I guess I was right when he said that we would "agree to disagree" on the topic, that meant it would not be brought up again. Thank you God!

I inquired about his trip to San Diego and how did the kids like everything and was trying to do my absolute best to not talk about "us." During the time away from him I learned a lot about myself and tried to focus on my trust issues. I had to decide whether or not I wanted to trust him. For me, you either trust and believe until they give you a reason not to, or you just don't. Like I've said before, I'm usually pretty good about spotting a snake in the grass. But something inside me told me that this one was not feeding me a lot of BS. That he REALLY is in a bad spot right now. I also realized that it ISN'T me. That it really IS him. I really had to take into account everything that has happened to him over the last several months and ask myself, "how would I react to this situations?" I swear, the more I talk to him, the more I think he is a male version of me! He truly has to be one of the most sensitive people I've ever met. I digress. .. back to lunch.

I ask some general questions that I would consider to be deal breakers, for me. For example, "do you consider yourself to be an affectionate person?" I know, this may sound strange to some of you, but I was with someone for 5 years that would start fishing in his pockets for his chapstick if I tried to hold his hand. I know that I won't tolerate that type of behavior again. All the questions I asked I received the answers I had hoped to get. But still, the walls have come up a bit, because I need to step back and look at this objectively until he feels ready to move forward.

Unfortunately, things did focus around us at some points of the conversation. But I did notice that he was following my lead, so to speak. I would say, "if a woman you dated...." And he would start responding with, "If you, or some woman I was with, ...."

He told me that he knew he shouldn't have called on Sat (called and didn't leave a msg). but that he really wanted to talk to me, but knew it "was wrong." He tends to use the phrases "it's just not right, it's wrong" a lot when he starts to discuss any feelings he may be starting to develop for me. I asked why he did this, because I needed to understand. He said, if you were a friend of mine, and you told me about things a guy was saying to you (like the things that he tells me) that I would think the guy was a jerk. He said it's wrong for me to call you when I know I'm not ready for anything right now. I said, "Actually, I would like for you to call me because it is important for me to get to know YOU. I like the "idea" of you, but I don't "know" you. I'm definitely intrigued by you and want to learn more." Now, this may have set him aback a little, but it's true. I'm in no way trying to hurt him for opening up to me, but I do need to take care of myself.

It was funny, because several times throughout the lunch he said, "we're not even dating yet. This is not a date." And all the while, I kept thinking, "who are you trying to convince of that, me or yourself?"

He did manage to not tell me (verbally) that he wanted to kiss me this time. But I think that it helped that I tried to keep things a step back. Although, again, his body language was completely there.

I did tell him (and I'm sure you guys will tell me this was a mistake, but again, I'm not really good at hiding my feelings) that I believed that he was interested in me and attracted to me, but that I just didn't believe that it was "enough interest." I said that I felt if the "right person" came into his life right now that I didn't think there would be any obstacles. But that I was ok with that because we really don't "know" each other right now. His response, "I don't agree with you, but I'm not going to argue with you about that." I also told him that I truly felt that he had some unresolved issues with his ex that he needed to work through and that I felt that could also be an obstacle. I think this comment struck a nerve because his eyes clouded over for a minute after I said it. I can't explain it to you. The last time that we met, his eyes did that when we were talking about kids and how important they were to me. It's just a sudden change in the whole eye. He also didn't deny my "evaluation," nor did I expect him to. The ex is always telling him that "she's waiting for him." He goes and sees her baby once a month (not his, but he started dating her when she was pregnant and was with her when the baby was born. I told him that I had given that whole scenario some thought because I had to ask myself if I would be comortable with his continuing to see the baby if we were together and decided I could be, provided that the ex knew about me. I know how passionate he is about kids and I would never try to stand in the way of things of that nature. But I also told him that while she may not be "trying" to win him back right now, rest assured, she would be the minute that he told her he found someone else. I also explained to him that while he may not be "telling" her that he might be coming back to her that his actions may be leading her to think that. I especially believe this to be true when she hasn't moved on with her life. If I had a kid and my ex, who wasn't the father of the baby, was visiting on a regular basis, I would be holding out hoping, too. He said, "I'd adopt that child if she would let me. I just don't want it ending up with a deadbeat dad." I asked if he really felt she wouldn't be able to get her life together and work through her issues and find somone that would be good to her. He said that he knew there were just a lot of jerks out there. "If I wasn't interested in you, myself, out of all the 40 acquaintences I have, I wouldn't try and set you up with any of them. None of them are good enough for you." Yeah, yeah, what else could I do but smile?:p

At the end of lunch I told him that I truly appreciated the efforts he was putting forth in "meeting" with me and that I wanted him to know that it meant a lot to me, because I knew it was hard for him. He told me he enjoyed my company, too. He also mentioned the next time that he knew he would get off early from work on a friday (one of my days off) that he would call me so we could meet up at another casino (I'm not allowed to play poker at mine and really miss it!). He came over to give me a hug goodbye and I would SWEAR he almost moved in for a kiss! My lips ended up brushing the side of his cheek and then our cheeks "scraped" on each other (still felt the razor rash when I got home). Little does he know, had he gone in for one, I would've been receptive. :D

So, honestly, I think there has been some progress here. I truly have all of you to thank for the progress I made within myself. I DO deserve to be happy and I DO deserve to have a good man. And without your guidance, I am sure that I would've fallen into my past behavior and been in full pursuit mode. So, thank you. I think it's worth mentioning that he told me that ALL of his ex-girlfriends did all the pursuing with him. He told me that they would all tell him that they weren't like everyone else and that they would treat him with nothing but love and respect...yada yada yada and then cheated on him or started treating him poorly. Now, I'm not going to say that he isn't at fault in any of these past relationships, simply because there are two sides to every story...but I can see how it would be easy to fall for someone like him...I started to and then my little invisible wall came back up ....it's called "the realist." I'm just going to take things day by day and it will be what it will be. If we're meant to be together, then that's where it will end up. I've done nothing but pray for guidance for the last few weeks and to ask for the strength to not give in to dialing fingers. It seems to be working.

Hope all of you are well. Thanks again for the "vent." But more importantly, for the wise words of wisdom and support!! :)

Congratulations for you. You seem to done this in a very intelligent style, maintaining control, while knowing what you want.
To be honest, you sound like you know what you're doing, and there's nothing new I can add, besides keep it up.
I hope it works out for the two of you. He sounds like a sensitive soul.

I sure hope you're right. It really is important that he come to terms with all his issues on his own. But at the same time I worry that putting my guard up will deter him from finally coming around and approaching me when he is ready. The comfort level between us is wonderful and I like that I can be myself. Although, now I have to admit that while I am still being "real," I feel a bit fradulent since I am keeping my feelings "under wraps" so to speak.

We joked that I was going to nickname him "fence." Because he seems to be on the fence about a lot of things right now. All this "tells" me is that he really is very confused on several aspects that are going on his life right now.

When we very first started talking he told me that he wanted to get back to his religious roots (something that appealed to me). Then the other day he was starting to doubt that there actually was a God. I know that he is probably still grieving the deaths of those that were close to him and I can't even imagine what that was like to experience.

The whole situation is so very different than any I've ever experienced in my life and he really is a hard one to walk away from, because everything I keep learning about him meets my "most wanted list."

I'm a very simple person. I am not high maintenance materially speaking. I am, however, high maintenance emotionally (hand holding, kissing, etc). These are things I learned a long time ago and will not settle for someone that can't provide these things. It is just very hard for me to not call him to just talk...not about us and to see if he's changed his mind, but just simply to see how he is doing.

Thanks for replying. I truly hope to hear from some of the others that followed this throughout the first few posts I made to see how they think (good or bad) I've handled things thus far.

Have a good one!

It takes a lot of commitement and persistance to pursue a relationship like this, and if he understands that, then you don't have worry. It's not something you can tell him either, just a realization he needs to come to, when he gets off his fence and comes at you with everything's he got.

I agree with your maintenance all the way. It's good to keep things simple, then you can't lie to yourself, and physical contact even w/o intimacy is very very important.

You're not fraudulent by gaurding your emotions. You're simply being careful and wise. You're giving him the space he needs too, to grow and mature, so he can realize what he wants, and how badly he wants it.

UGH! I cannot stand the fact that I just can't seem to apply EVERYTHING that I learn from reading here and from all the books! Why is it that I just can't be patient with this guy?? I know what is best and yet I still can't seem to control myself! Again, I say, Jack***! :D

He called me on Sunday (almost an hour conversation). He was completely back to being more positive and upbeat (unlike the pessimist he appeared to be at our last lunch). I tried very hard to keep my "emotional distance" but it was so hard with him being so flirty. I still hate that the walls are down with him, especially when I know they should be up in full force. Somehow we got on the topic of our "most wanted lists." I asked what was his number one? He said, "nothing." I said, "Now I know you are being untruthful, because all of us have a number one wish/desire." He said, "That's it....nothing." I told him I didn't get it. He said, "I wish there were no barriers between us. Nothing." I said, "oh." Ok, I'm even giggling a little while I type this...even though it's not funny, but I suppose my response could've been better. It is leading me to think that the age gap is still an issue with him, even though we decided to "agree to disagree" on the topic. He then followed it up with, "I don't know, maybe I shouldn't think so much." I told him that I understood that because of my active imagination and that my mind will always mess with me when I try to over anyalyze things. I mentioned to him that I told my friend I think he is the male version of me. He laughed.

He mentioned something about going to another casino the next day for a tourney. I said, "Hey, I don't work there!" He said, "I know that! The tourney is at 7pm I thought maybe you could meet me there since you like to play and can't play at your place. But you are probably sleeping at that time, huh?" I said, "I have always been able to adjust my sleeping patterns to suit things I want to do." He said, "OK." I said, "Are you asking me to adjust my sleeping patterns for tomorrow?" He said, "Yes. Well, how about I call you tomorrow and let you know if I can make it for sure." I said ok.

He calls on Monday morning...again cheerful happy. Here's where I blow things. He leaves a message that tells me that the school gave him a list of supplies that he needs to get for the kids and that he didn't know what he was thinking yesterday, but that tonight wouldn't be a good night for him. But that he would like a raincheck and would talk to me sooner than later and to have a great day. He also mentions that maybe we can do it on a night that I have off from work so that it would be easier for me to get out and that he just didn't think he would be able to make it by 7pm. Naturally, since I JUST missed his call, I call him back. Dummy...can't just let it go....noooooooooo, that would be way to easy! I had taken the night off from work (this way I really didn't have to worry about adjusting my sleeping schedule and wouldn't have to worry about the time) and that if he just wanted to meet out there, we still could. Again he says, I just really have to get all of this stuff done, but we'll reschedule. SIGH STOP! Don't do it!! Oh yes, I did! "Ok, I understand, but I was really looking forward to seeing you." DUMB DUMB DUMB! He makes those baby steps towards me and I just pounce all over him!!! He has to take a call from a customer and says that he will call me later, ok? I tell him ok (cheerfully...not resentfully).

Naturally I still haven't heard from him. Of course, trying to remain the optimist, "later" could mean anything from one hour to 5 days. I'm kicking myself in the behind over this pretty badly. I'm trying not to be discouraged..I know the age issue is something he needs to overcome or come to terms with on his own.

I don't even have this man in my life, but just the thought of him makes me smile, even when I haven't heard from him in days. Players are contstantly asking what's put the bounce in my step these days? A fellow co-worker tells me the other night, "You are so beautiful. Is there someone loving you that we're not aware of, because you have really been glowing these days." I should mention that same fellow co-worker proceeded to hint around about us going out and doing something some time. He is a sweetheart, but I'm not attracted to him that way and he drinks too much. I KNOW I should be dating others and not putting so much stock into something that is not there yet. I KNOW he and I are not dating or a couple or anything else. But I suppose part of me is worried that if I do proceed to see others he will take that as a sign that my interest in him is not genuine.

As always, all comments and advice are readily accepted. I hate that I'm even writing this right now, but my head is just constantly messing with me. I suppose it helps to come here and vent (like I said before). So, I thank you all in advance for listening!

Let him make the moves . . . don't call him . . . don't call him back unless he asks you to . . . and if you see your hand reaching for the phone to call him, take your other hand and smack it! ;)

I realize that my posts have been rather lengthy, so I will TRY to do better. I can't help it, I tend to write like I'm speaking..so here it goes. I suppose this question will apply to both genders, but I'm particularly interested in hearing from any of the men that read/post here...mainly because I'd like to see if anyone has ever been in the "same place" as my YM. Personally, I know I have, but I think women tend to deal with things differently than men.

First, I apologize for not continuing on the same thread for everything that deals with this guy. This is the first forum I had ever posted on and didn't realize how much easier it is to "follow" one's situation when it's all on one thread, regardless of the topic. So, rather than start a new one, I figured I would just keep it under this thread. Ok, here we go, (thinking to myself...Keep it Simple Silly [KISS]).

I think I've mentioned that I tend to over-analyze things. I don't know if this is some sort of mental defect, or what! Kidding. But the conversation I mentioned earlier in this thread where he made the comment about the "barriers" led me to believe that perhaps he was still "toying" with the age thing. I also know that this thinking is what "provoked" my actions that I'm getting ready to confess to you guys. Please trust me, when I tell you, that I KNOW (logically) that I've put WAY too much energy in this "fantasy." Logically, I know A LOT. But it certainly doesn't help my heart any. Grrr...I liked it much better when I was walking around with metal armor around myself! The tough exterior me was a lot easier to deal with, than the "holy cow, I can actually "feel" me. Make sense? Anyway...KISS sorry!

Three weeks ago, I made a pretty big error. Didn't mean to (obviously!) but did, indeed, "push the envelope" so to speak (ugh, and I had been so proud of myself too, for providing him the space that I knew he needed)!!! Please be gentle with me folks, I know I've got it coming to me after you read this. We were talking on the phone and I KNEW I shouldn't be talking to him (had a couple of beers, was in a good mood. Not drunk, not tipsy, but you know how liquid courage tends to kick-in. Was just plain out happy to be talking to him. ARGH! I even TOLD him, at the beginning of the conversation I shouldn't be talking to him, given my present state.....dang loose lips)!!!!! Anyway, joked that I almost sent him a text asking him if it had been 6 months yet (I KNOW, I KNOW). Whoooops. Asked me what I was talking about. I asked if he was pulling my chain? He said, "No, what are you talking about?" I said, "Oh. Well, I guess that tells me everything I need to know." (HOLY COW, can you say IDIOT!?...you see, I don't need you all to be hard on me, I've beaten myself up over this enough!) Told me I was "pushing his buttons." I realize I've made a pretty big error. We discuss a few things. He says, "Maybe it would be better if we didn't talk anymore until I'm ready. I can see this is hard for you." I say, "Well, ok, if that's what you really want." (Yes, my head is swimming at this point, because I can't believe I made such a big mistake). He says, "It's not what I want but I just think this is really hard for you and hurting you is the last thing I want to do. I'm just not ready for a relationship with anyone. I've never been alone since my divorce and I really want to stand on my own two feet. I'm not seeing or talking to any other women. There are a lot of things I want to do with you (then whispers, and to you, too, believe me). But right now I'm just not ready. When I'm ready for a relationship, it will be you that I call and no-one else. But right now, I just need this time for myself." I was silent...mainly from shock...I just couldn't think straight. I could tell he arrived home and heard the kids and he said that he needed to go, but would call me.

Ok...yes, I realize how absolutely desperate I've acted with this guy...and trust me this is not my normal behavior. I have evaluated my behavior a lot since that day and asked myself, "When did you lose that self-assured behavior?" Grammatically, I know that is incorrect, but hey, I'm going with my feelings here. I really did lose my self-assuredness..not really my self-confidence...but did lose a bit of myself. The one word that came to me, after we hung-up that night, was AUTONOMY. Yes, he needs this right now and I understand why. I've re-read some of my posts here and my journal, and I notice that I've known that all along. Why did it take him having to hit me over the head with a 2x4 for it to sink in? Had it he just said those words to me a month ago, this would've been so much easier for me to digest...yet, he did...kind-of. He danced around it a bit, but I had no idea that he really "thought" of me like that (although, maybe I did, deep down, since he has said many times that the right person walks into your life when you aren't looking).

So, finally to my question...

Have any men here realized that they have just been in one rebound relationship to the next and that they needed to be alone for awhile? I realize that women will tend to pick up on that behavior a lot quicker than men, since it takes us longer to mend our hearts. If you have realized this, was there ever a time that someone came into your life that made you second guess your decision to be alone for the time being? Did you give into those feelings or did you remain alone until you knew you could completely "give yourself" to a relationship? Man, does any of this make sense to anyone? I know I'm rambling and I know that this wasn't kept short, like I'd initially hoped. I'm very sorry about that. But again, my mind just has a really hard time shutting off sometimes.

After three weeks, I broke down and sent him a text on Thursday. Simple..just how are you and the kids? Have they picked out their costumes yet? He responded immediately with, "Almost called you today to see how you were. XX is a princess and XX is a dragon. How are you?" I responded with, "Great minds think alike, guess I should learn to be more patient, huh? Doing well, ty for asking, getting ready for contractors next week and my upcoming cruise. How are you?" Never got a response. Of course, my head keeps focusing on that one little word "almost."

I have to say that, honestly, I am starting to get my self-assured self back again. I only discuss this situation with the 1,000 readers on this board :D and three friends. I joked with one yesterday, when she asked if there was any new news, and told her, "He's enjoying his bachelorhood for the moment. He knows once he makes that move to be with me, he'll never be single again!" Yes, folks, it is a joke...obviously because that's "fantasy." However, I know that I'm a great catch...and if he ever comes out of that cave, he will, too!

Sorry for the length and I whole-heartedly thank all of you that have taken the time to read this and respond....so much for KISS! Thanks guys!

LOL . . . Hon, you've GOT to learn some self-control! Once again, YOU made the first move. He asked you to let him be until he's ready. You really need to do that.

In my younger days, I was the "rebound woman" far too many times and, trust me, you do not want to be that person. If you really care about this guy, then you really need to just back off and let him be until he is ready. Otherwise, you risk 1) pissing him off completely because of your pestering; or 2) wearing him down to be with you and you will end up being the "rebound woman" and he will move on after he has gotten it out of his system. I honestly don't think you are striving for either one of these scenarios.

Go back up and read my post previous to this one. And follow the directions to the letter! :D

I know you explained why you continued this post on this thread, but you really would get more response if you started a new thread with it. A lot of posters will pass it up thinking they have nothing to add.

Oh Beautiful Peachy, thank you so very much for not "tearing me a new one!"

Yes, you are absolutely correct on everything you said. I imagine by the end of the month both of my hands will be blood red from all the slapping!!! :D

It just absolutely dumbfounds me that I've behaved in this manner...I mean, really! I am the one that people (even not-so-close friends) come to for relationship advice. Why? I truly have no idea, but they do, they apply it, and it works for them. WTH is wrong with me that I can't practice what I preach!? I absolutely DO NOT like this feeling! Like I said, I liked it much better when I walked around like I was "untouchable." As I'm typing this I noticed that I was about to say, "I like it better when I'm in control." Now, THERE'S an intersting thought. Of course, I AM in control of my own behavior and actions...no doubt about it. But I suppose I just haven't really felt this type of connection to someone in a very long time. I feel like a blubbering school girl when I'm with him. I tried to figure out what it was about him that was so different. Besides some of the more obvious things, I realized that when I am around him or talking to him, I feel VERY FEMINE. Is that strange or what? I have even found myself to be very shy at times with him (and trust me when I tell you, I am FAR from shy)!!!

So, I guess it will be up to the no contacting again. Hey, I'm getting better...the first time it was 2 weeks....this time I made it 3 weeks. I doubt, however, that I will make it past the 11th of October.....I will be in NY for my cruise, but that is the day of his birthday. I just don't think that I will be able to refrain from at least sending him a birthday greeting....nothing more...but would like him to know that I remembered and wish him a good day. sigh I suppose I'll get told that isn't a good idea either, huh?

Thanks for getting back to me. Maybe one of the Moderators can help me move the "newer" portion of my thread like you suggested? If not, I suppose I can cut and paste it into a new thread. Either way works for me since I really would like to see if anyone else has experienced this (male point of view would be great).

Thanks again for taking the time to read and reply Peachy...you REALLY ARE A PEACH!!! ;)

Girl! Get that KISS method of writing down better!:D Hence, I am trying to remember and follow all of what you wrote, so I am not sure if I will be of any help!

First off, have you ever heard of the term "transitional woman/man"? I think it may be the same as what you are calling a "rebound" one, and that is NOT what you want to be! He needs to "transition" out of what he had and if there is another person there with him, often times that person is GONE when he is done due to the fact his transition is over. SOOO... you do need to back off; I mean even if a another woman comes into play now, she may be that transitional woman for him. Second, we all know that "timing" is everything in a relationship; and if obstacles are keeping it from moving forward on either side, no amout of prodding or cajoling will help it. TRUST ME, I know! You really do need to step back and just enjoy your life as it stands now WITHOUT HIM in it. If it is meant to be it will be! BUT I guarantee, the worst think you can do is to look needy or childish, as he is dealing with that already with his kids, is he not? And after all, it is the maturity of us women that younger men adore! With that said, he sounds very interested, but you need to wait until HE is ready for this! Good luck to you.

Regards...

Perfect reply-posts, Peachy and Suicide...and I concur TOTALLY.

hyde...you sound like me, strong and confident, but when it comes to a man that I just "KNOW" would benefit from loving me:D (jk), it's hard to sit on my hands too! It's that chemistry-emotional connection thing that causes my brain to follow my impulse. BUT....you have to "follow the directions" ;) and leave him be, if you ever want his respect and the chance of attraction when he's "ready" .

On the transition-woman (awesome definition, Suicide, and it makes complete sense)...my exym went from me right to another girl within 6 weeks of our breakup. The last time we spoke in 2003, I told him she was the "rebound girl", and made some other "less than gracious" comment:o, But I was still trying to orchestrate his realization that I WAS THE ONE HE WANTED AND NEEDED TO LOVE at that time!!!

Three years later (just last month), he emailed me after 3 years of no contact. Apologized for the way he handeled things at the breakup (he was SO young at 21+ and lacked the maturity/experience to handle things any better, really), and admitted, "You were right about the Redhead (that's what I called her in 2003)....she was just a rebound." It was nice to know that I was right...but it would have felt so much better had I remained gracious back then, left him alone, and he came to that conclusion all on his own.

Stick to your resolve, and both you and HE will have the greatest respect for you (which, by the way, is an attractive thing).
Best,
Karen

First....THANK YOU for taking the time to READ my novel!!!

I really am trying to KISS, SuicideBlonde, really, I am!!!

You girls make a lot of sense...I liked the explanation of the transitional woman. I think this is what he is trying to figure out. He's told me that he's been in 1 relationship to the next since his divorce, and that he's trying to figure out why they don't last. That he wants to make his next relationship his last one...thus my joke about him enjoying bachelorhood. :D

I guess what makes it so difficult is I know we both sense the chemistry between us...the comments he has made (and has continued to make when we talk). I mean, I understand and I don't understand. Cripes, I'm confusing myself over here! I guess I just would think if something "felt so right" for both parties, how could it be wrong? But, then maybe he's trying to make sure that I am not the transitional woman? He's been more than concerned with how our contact affects me...try as I might..my heart obviously cannot fool him. Logically it's best he gets all that emotional baggage out of the way. He's told me he couldn't give me 100% right now and knows it wouldn't be right. Sigh..

And Karen, thanks...I do remember reading your post about his letter to you. I thought, wow...takes a big man to admit and do that! Frustrating to know that he just couldn't be more aware of that then! grrrrr

Ok, well, girls...hopefully some more insight will come my way. I know everything I'm hearing...but I so appreciate hearing about how others have handled things like this because I truly do learn from that. I guess I also like being able to express myself here, without having to worry about being vulnerable. So, thank you very much for that....I can't thank you ENOUGH....just the time you've taken to read and post to me means tons!!! Hugs!

Just passing along a thought --

Your predicament does remind me of a little poem:

Love will die if held too tightly,
Love will fly if held too lightly,
Lightly, tightly, how do I know,
Whether I'm killing or letting you go??

In your case however, you have made it very clear to him how you feel and the rest has to be up to him. You would not be holding too lightly when he has asked for you to do that.

And I don't see anything wrong with sending a birthday greeting. Only a wish for a happy day that would require no response from him.

Good Luck and have a great time on your trip! :)

It seems you and I have two things in common, the compulsive pursuit and the long posts. I really will try to keep it short this time tho, due to time constraints.

I also did the initiating, and still tend to. At first, it was just the combo of our personalities. I notice that in general, he tends to receive alot more calls than he makes, so everyone adjusts to knowing that if they don't call, they won't hear from him.

And he was afraid, intimidated by me I think, and by his very strong feelings (which I think applies to your YM too) and was afraid of being hurt if these wild emotions were allowed to run free.

So it has been a LOOOOONG almost 2 years since we met and started seeing each other. For us it started as a physical, romantic relation, and then he kept trying to pull back and make it more friendship, create some distance. Mostly those efforts were unsuccessful, happily for me. It moved too much, too fast.

But I was there with --- the letters, the calls, the declarations of love, even gifts! He resisted, and it eventually drove him away. But in retrospect, I think that after over a year, it also started to sink in that I was really serious, and wasn't going anywhere. It was gradually reassuring him and overcoming the fears. When he went completely silent for a month or more, I was still there when he resurfaced. But I chased.

Then competition came along, and I was insanely jealous, so the pushing became a battleground, instead of seeing it as a time for him to clarify his feelings and choices --- I just went into panic mode. Finally, I got some excellent advice... the kind you got here... and I backed off. I was petrified that he would end up with the competition, but I kept myself back. I kept reminding myself that if it were real love, if it were what I had felt it was all this intense time, he would be back.

And it took several weeks of complete silence for him to start calling, asking why I hadn't called, and now confessing that he missed me and wanted to see me, etc. I continued to play it cool, having been well warned, and at least another month went by before we met again. And when we did, he found a whole different woman. I think it was a relief for both of us.

And now, after all that drama, I was able to say to him, I don't want any more drama. If you want to be with someone else, do that. And I will move on, too. But if you want to be with me, here are my limits. I want your undivided attention. If you don't want that, fine, but I will have to move on. Because I love you too much to do otherwise.

Now I can see what someone tried to tell me months ago, that I should be grateful that the competition appeared early in our relationship, and gave him a chance to explore those other ideas and options. He is only 22, and I can remember myself at that age. Having run that cycle made him only more sure when he came back to me and said, okay I am here.

He also went through an 'I don't want to be with anybody' phase, too. And even said he didn't get why I felt the need to date. That he just wanted to learn to love himself first. I was a little embarrassed that I wasn't the one with that understanding.

He still holds off on the formal declaration, but there is no one else now, and he is completely devoted. And I am so glad that I was strong enough to allow him that independence and alone time. For both he and I to become more strong within ourselves. The relationship is so much the better for it.

And now the panic is gone, we can be relaxed with each other, it is where it needs to be for us at this moment. And the big benefit in all this is: I LEARNED PATIENCE!!!!

So congratulations for your lesson in progress.... and also, I suspect that he is secretly loving your open expressions and impulsive communications... I think he digs you as you are, so while you are pulling yourself into greater balance, don't beat yourself up so much when you slip. I suspect he understands more than you think, and is often holding himself off from calling you and compulsively thinking about you too, but just trying hard to give himself the healing and growing time that he needs. I am sure that he secretly rejoices when you let your intensity slip out. I know my guy does. There are little signs, if you look.

So have fun!