tough call

Hi AL members i have a dilema. My realtionship is fantastic, completly 100% satifying in all degree's. my gf an I just went on vacation and had a wonderful time and got along fantastically. So much so that even missed each toehr when we got back after being together 24/7. I love this woman whole heartedly, she loves me the same as well. neither of us have felt so complete in a realitonship.

we have been talking about future things somewhat lately. one of them being us living together and how she has been considering it. which we are both abit nervous about because we want to make sure we are ready and what not. both of us are interested and plan to have a lengthy discussion about it.

The other topic is children and having them together. we are definetly not at that stage yet where we are ready or anything like that, but it comes along with future plans, well right now it is. the reason why is that she is not sure she wants anymore children she has 2, ages 9 an 7. and she doesn't think she wants to start all over again. She has said to me that she just got recconected with her self and with having her own life. If we have a child she says she will not have the reconnection and life she has now for at least 4 years, because thats how she was with her 2 previous children. All about them as a mother should be. her ex was involved but more ofetn than not he would take off and leave her with the kids. (long story there) I would like to have children, I would LOVE to have them with her if even just one, to me she is a ideal mother and one that i definetly would want to have for my child or children. She knows how i feel and she tells me that she thinks i am going to try to convince her otherwise to want to have more children.

The dilema is that she is talking about having a procedure done where they burn the endometrium lining and eggs won't attach. much like a hysterectomy its permenant. She is thinking of having this done in the next couple of months. To me this speaks loudly to the fact that she is deciding on our future right now, before we essentially have one and that my opinion maybe considered but might not be worth much, especially if her minds made up. we both are very scared to have the conversation becasue it might mean letting go of what we have. yet we need to have it. I feel there are other options (the pill) she should consider for at least a little while, and she feels that she is told old to have kids and or perhaps is past the desire.

Now I don’t want to come off selfish in this either, because her health is a priority and if this is something that is going to jeopardize her health then by all means it must be done. Before, she had told me that she never thought about having any more children until she started seeing me, that the thought crossed her mind and was somewhat there for a while. After our unfortunate event (miscarriage surprise pregnancy) it seems she totally switched gears, whether or not that is because of what happened to us, or other factors I am not entirely sure.

All I know for me is that I have never been happier in my life than I am with her, despite the struggles we have gone through together. she has shown me so much and made me realize exactly what I have always wanted. That’s her!!! she encompass all of that, and I am not planning on going anywhere or seeking out anyone because I don’t think anyone could possibly fill the space in my heart as adequately as she does.

I am sure she is looking at this as its not fair for me and that perhaps that her mind is made up. I guess maybe I am begging her not to do this just yet and to give us a chance. I know it’s her body and she has every right to do with what she wants. I feel like I am being totally selfish and trying to get some control over a situation that is not in my control. I just want to be heard. If she doesn't wnat to physically have children then i want to ask her to please consider adoption(i was adopted).
Obviously all of this is very contingent on if we get to that point, but I am hopeful and I will give it my all to take our relationship as far as we can. We have large pieces of each other and a deep understanding and I get sick to my stomach thinking that it could all be either taken away or let go because of a quick fix decision. This whole thing to me makes me feel like I have to decide on my own future right now when I haven’t experienced it yet and that I have to give up a love that has made me feel so good that I can’t possibly fathom having it with anyone else. How can something feel so good and so right and one thing can bring it all possibly to an end. I feel so torn, I am thinking of my happiness and myself and I do not want to let go of one who brings me happiness everyday.

any advice on how to handle this subject and whats right for me? i am very saddend by it.

You do not state your age,but you may consider a vasectomy. I had one and it is no big deal. It is also usually reversable. You can also have your sperm frozen in case you wish to have children later.

Dale

I understand by your post that she had a miscarriage. I had 2 and both were very traumatic. The last one was so emotionally painful that I decided not to try it anymore.

Why is she having this procedure? It is imperative for health reasons?

How old is she? Being a mother is a lot of work and demands lots of energy and commitment. After a certain age, that energy is just not there.

You need to do some hard thinking about the possibility of not having children if you want to continue with this woman. Imagine you could leave her and marry a younger woman, willing but unable to have children. Or another woman who has your child but divorces you and takes your child away. If one could have a cristal ball and see the future of each choice life would be so much easier.

You need to do some hard thinking about the possibility of not having children if you want to continue with this woman. Imagine you could leave her and marry a younger woman, willing but unable to have children. Or another woman who has your child but divorces you and takes your child away.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, but would like to add a few comments. Given a "perfect" scenario with another woman....meaning that if you left your current relationship and were able to find love with another woman who wanted children as much as you do, and knew she was able to conceive, do you think you would be happier? Be honest....

You mentioned that the two of you are talking about possibly moving in together, which means that you are not ready to fully commit to each other and get married at this time. However, you also mentioned a miscarriage.....was her intention to keep the child, and if so what were your plans together....moving in...marriage?


If I were in her shoes and being asked by a man (who wasn't ready to marry me) to keep my options open in the baby making department, I would probably wonder just how many years the man was expecting me to keep that option open. She has already expressed that it is not her desire to have any more children, but if she were to agree to have one to make you happy, then she might have a certain age in mind that is her "ceiling" for becoming a new mother. For example, if she's 40 now and you are only at the point of CONSIDERING moving in together, what age is she going to be realistically once you have married and conceived? 43? 45? As her age increases, so do the risks associated with pregnancy, the effects on her body, and the age gap between her and a child.

You didn't say how old you are, but I think you really need to sit down and think about what is most important to you. If having children is a must for you to be happy, then possibly this relationship is not for you. My BF is 10 years younger than I am (he's 29). We have discussed this matter extensively because I want to make sure we are on the same page so that it doesn't become an issue in the future. I don't have any children, and although I can still get pregnant I don't really feel like I will want children in the future (there is after all a reason why I haven't chose to have them thus far in life). He doesn't have any children either, and says that he doesn't really want one either. He says he would consider having one ONLY if it was something that I TRULY wanted....otherwise, he can live without it. For both of us, having someone in our lives to love, who loves us back is more important than anything else. You and your lady need to decide what is most important to the both of you and be honest with each other if your wants and needs don't match.

I'll answer the questions. first off our ages I am 29 she is 36.

Why is she having this procedure? She has been having heavy cycles and the procedure will stop those.

Is it imperative for health reasons? not entirely sure it seems to be somewhat, but then its seems to be out of conviniece as well.

Imagine you could leave her and marry a younger woman, willing but unable to have children. Or another woman who has your child but divorces you and takes your child away
This is what i am talking about. Sure i could leave but i don't think i will find what i have in her and in us with someone else, the love she gives and takes is balanced and rare, we have a deep emotinal investment.

You mentioned that the two of you are talking about possibly moving in together, which means that you are not ready to fully commit to each other and get married at this time. However, you also mentioned a miscarriage.....was her intention to keep the child, and if so what were your plans together....moving in...marriage?
the subject of moving in together just recently came up as she is in the final stages of a divorce and found out that she may have to keep the house. So we discussed the idea of living together briefly and that she had considered the idea. We have only been together a little over a year, committed definetly. We have discussed marriage breifly as well in that we kinda like the idea but due to the divorce she is hesitant. i understand that and i chose to stay with her. RE: miscarriage it was an unplanned pregnancy and the timing was not right. we had no idea we were pregnant until she had the misscarriage she was not far along.
we are taking our realtionship as it comes and growing together and trying not to rush anything. moving in together is what we thought would be the next logical step. the idea came up due to her situation changing with her house.
Obviously if she agreed to have more children she has a limited window and commitment is definetly needed. I am committed to her whole heartedly I am just being patient as the divorce winds down and montoring how she feels about taking the realtionship to the next level. Hence why we thought about moving in becaue that says alot about how a couple can function with money and a space involved, I would assume that if all goes well there the next step would be marriage. We agreed early on to have no time lines and go with the flow.

For both of us, having someone in our lives to love, who loves us back is more important than anything else. You and your lady need to decide what is most important to the both of you and be honest with each other if your wants and needs don't match.

I agree with this statement as well. having someone to love and who loves you back is extreemly important especially for the long haul.

for me i feel like i am under pressure to decide major things on my realtionship rigth now because she wants to have this done in the next couple months. I feel like i have to decide on my future today when i don't even know what its gonna be yet because the path many would normally follow has changed. The path to me usually is commitment-move in-marraige-children. but now that seems to have switched up. I am confused on what to do and I am scared of losing this relationship becasue i am very happy and so is she. we are both afraid of this conversation and walk on egg shells around it.

hope this fills in the gaps of my story.

After reading your post I see you love her a lot. If she is your soulmate, I think that you should stay with her, and love her children as your own and be part of their life and their upbringing.

You are young. You still have 30+ years to produce children. Do not ruin what you have now with your woman. Many things could happen in life and true love is rare.

About children. You have them, raise them, and they are gone in the blink of an eye. My 16 yr old boy is already making plans to become independent. So again, think hard, and I hope you reach the best conclusion for both of you.

The dilema is that she is talking about having a procedure done where they burn the endometrium lining and eggs won't attach. much like a hysterectomy its permenant. She is thinking of having this done in the next couple of months. To me this speaks loudly to the fact that she is deciding on our future right now, before we essentially have one and that my opinion maybe considered but might not be worth much, especially if her minds made up. we both are very scared to have the conversation becasue it might mean letting go of what we have. yet we need to have it. I feel there are other options (the pill) she should consider for at least a little while, and she feels that she is told old to have kids and or perhaps is past the desire.

Hold on there, take a deep breath and few steps back. Why is she having this procedure done? (Its called uterine ablatement.) My suspicion is that it is for a medical condition. It is not something that is done for the purpose of sterilization, but you act as though it is. Does she have endometriosis? Unusually long periods or severe menstual cramping? I think you are putting her decision to have this procedure into the wrong basket....she's "deciding our future", when in fact she may be choosing to do this so that she feels better and can give you and her girls a better future. Sorry to be so blunt, but its her body...when did you aquire rights to decide anything? Are you married to her? Is she carrying your child?

Again, I think you need to take a step back and understand from a medical perspective why this has even been proposed and what other options were suggested, if any, and what the success and failure rates are for all of these options. While I think you really have no right in the decision making, I think you do have, by virtue of you intimate realtionship with her, a right to understand what she is faced with and what she will be going through. Focus your efforts there! Good luck!

rosie you need to go back and re-read both posts of mine before you criticize me. I defined what it was being done for and i know its her body. again re-read them and maybe your conclusion won't be so hasty.

Why is she having this procedure? She has been having heavy cycles and the procedure will stop those.

Is it imperative for health reasons? not entirely sure it seems to be somewhat, but then its seems to be out of conviniece as well.


Ok, I read right over this, but my question remains. Why this and not hormonal therapy? This is a pretty drastic procedure and I can't believe this would be done unless other approaches had failed. This is not a procedure for her convenience! Was she anemic? Had she failed hormonal therapy in the past? Was there a problem with her uterus and this was seen as an alternative to hysterectomy? What was medically going on here? Your presentation of her situation makes no medical sense, is all I am saying.

My intention was not to be critical as much as to point out that there is another side to this story. This is about HER!! My feeling was that if you could better understand this, it might become crystal clear as to why she has made this decision, and it may have nothing to do with you!

I don't think there's a need to become very emotional about this.
First of all, this is her body, and no matter what your future together, it's ultimately her decision and her right to make that choice. It's also her responsibility to take into consideration all the consequences of such decisions before deciding on such a life changing decision. So look at it in that light.

Whether or not you decide to change your mind, you will eventually have to have a long discussion with her. I agree with Rosie, that you may not know the full extent of the condition that's causing her to do this, and I can tell you right now, that even you seem to severely underestimate how bad normal cramping, much less one especially strong ones over a longer period of time. You have no f*cking idea. Ok, now that's out of the way.

You have concerns and want kids. You need to sit her down and have a very, very in depth discusion with her, where you tell her you concerns and let her listen to you completly, and ask her to in detail explain whats happenening, and if you both agree that you may want kids later, than together talk to her doctor and he may have a few solutions, such as perhaps freezing a few of her eggs.

I don't understand what the big fuss is, but the solution remains the same. I'd love to hear any alternate ones, if anyone has them?

If you met a 20 year old woman and fell in love with her, would you leave her if you found out that she couldn't bear children? Or would you accept it and decide to adopt or try other methods?

A good friend of mine - 27 years old - just found out she can't have children due to ovarian tumors. Her husband isn't ever planning on leaving her and I seriously doubt he would have not still married her if he had found out ahead of time. He loves her and that is all that matters.

Do you know for sure you aren't shooting blanks? Would you want a woman who claims to love you hinge your relationship on whether or not you can father children?

I just never understand why older women are held to different standards in this regard.

Thanks for the comments and points of view, it gives me more to think about in an already thought filled mind. I am not trying to be selfish by any means in this whole thing. I love her thats the most important thing and I do understand the condition medically. she was put on the pill when she was 16 because of heavy cycles, she has an enlarged uterus as well. basically she went to the doctors due to the last few months of having heavy periods. The doctor said she could have a hysterectomy, the pill, or the electrode burning lining procedure.
She hates going under the knife and is not ready for menopause at 36, she feels theres to much risk from the pill at her age so theres this procedure. which is permanent, and would make it hard for her to get pregnant for simple biological reasons. Plus she doesn't know if she wants or desires more children.

The very basic premise is we have to have a discussion, and that discussion could potentially be hard to have. I know its her body and ABSOLUTELY she has every right to do what she wants with it.

i am just trying to look at this in all angels and being true to myself and to her and to us. its a hard decision to have to make with regards to a future or future plans or desires.

to other that put it in a perspective if it was a younger woman and what not thank you for that perspective it DID make me realize I love her unconditonally, and that should be my biggest focus. i just don't want resentment to pop up later on and or regret from either side.

A good friend of mine - 27 years old - just found out she can't have children due to ovarian tumors. Her husband isn't ever planning on leaving her and I seriously doubt he would have not still married her if he had found out ahead of time. He loves her and that is all that matters.


Although I COMPLETELY agree with this, in Tyomguy's situation it isn't that she CAN'T have kids, its that she doesn't want to have any more...big difference. She's had the opportunity to experience parenthood....he has not. Even if he loves her, will he be resentful later because he never got the opportunity to have his own children?

Although we don't know enough about her medical condition to know if her intended procedure is neccessary or the only way to correct her health issues, we do know that she has indicated that she really is not interested in having any more children. This is a compatibility issue, just like many other issues people discuss prior to marriage. For some its spiritual differences (one is actively involved with a church, the other doesn't even want to go to service on holidays), lifestyle differences (one is an avid traveler, and the other never wants to go more than 50 miles from home), family issues (one wants to be around their extended family all the time, the other prefers privacy)...you get the idea.

I don't think it makes him a bad person for really considering this baby issue before moving forward, because if in fact he is going to resent her later on for it, then its best not to pursue the relationship. It takes more than love to make a relationship work in the long run....if a couple does not share similar goals or want the same things out of life, then I think its easy for them to lose their connection and grow apart.

TO fortyishcutie!!!


THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! This is what i have been trying to say and why this is difficult for me both logically and emotionally!!!

Well, another question. The procedure she is undergoing is done under general anesthesia in my part of the country. Anesthesia is the biggest risk in a surgery of this nature. Hysterecomy can be done, leaving the ovaries, so premature menopause is not even part of the equation here. Also most of the hysterectomies on younger women are being done laproscopically, thru a scope, so the isn't really "the knife." Share this with her please and ask those questions.

I'm glad FortyishCutie was able to hear in your posts what you needed to have someone acknowledge. That's what we all come here for, and I admit it stings when you don't get validation. What I heard was a guy who was worryied about the future/kids and felt that his SO was undergoing a medical procedure because she didn't value their relationship or his opinion much. I was trying to say "Hold on and look at this from another perspective. It may not be What you think."

I looked at your old posts and you said once that one of the things you loved about this relationship was that you could be so honest/communicate well with each other. Well, I agree with FortyishCutie that this issue of kids is an issue of compatablility. You wanted to know if the two of you could have a future together given that she didn't want to remarry and didn't want kids. You wanted to know how soon into a relationship you could ask the question "Do we have a future?" This is all in you old posts. I would say, painful and scary as this is to both of you, now is the time to be talking!

Although I COMPLETELY agree with this, in Tyomguy's situation it isn't that she CAN'T have kids, its that she doesn't want to have any more...big difference. She's had the opportunity to experience parenthood....he has not. Even if he loves her, will he be resentful later because he never got the opportunity to have his own children?

Although we don't know enough about her medical condition to know if her intended procedure is neccessary or the only way to correct her health issues, we do know that she has indicated that she really is not interested in having any more children. This is a compatibility issue, just like many other issues people discuss prior to marriage. For some its spiritual differences (one is actively involved with a church, the other doesn't even want to go to service on holidays), lifestyle differences (one is an avid traveler, and the other never wants to go more than 50 miles from home), family issues (one wants to be around their extended family all the time, the other prefers privacy)...you get the idea.

I don't think it makes him a bad person for really considering this baby issue before moving forward, because if in fact he is going to resent her later on for it, then its best not to pursue the relationship. It takes more than love to make a relationship work in the long run....if a couple does not share similar goals or want the same things out of life, then I think its easy for them to lose their connection and grow apart.
I know what you are saying, but it missed my point, I think.

He said she "isn't sure" if she wants more children and gave reasons why she may not.

Regardless of if she WANTS them or CAN'T have them, he needs to decide which is more important - biological children or being with her.

My friend's husband decided his wife was more important than biological children.

It doesn't matter WHY she can't/won't have kids, it just matters what is more important for him. And the point that he may leave her, fall in love and get married to someone who SAYS they want kids and then find out either he or she CAN'T have kids. What then? And what was the point of giving up his OW then?

The point is not to lose something that WORKS cause kids are a great big IF.

Regardless of if she WANTS them or CAN'T have them, he needs to decide which is more important - biological children or being with her.

It doesn't matter WHY she can't/won't have kids, it just matters what is more important for him. And the point that he may leave her, fall in love and get married to someone who SAYS they want kids and then find out either he or she CAN'T have kids. What then? And what was the point of giving up his OW then?

The point is not to lose something that WORKS cause kids are a great big IF.

Its true that no one can tell the future - a couple can always start out with one intent and then life takes them in a different direction for one reason or another. I however disagree about there not being a difference between "can't" and "won't". Being the devil's advocate here, who is to decide which one of them is to sacrifice for the other out of love? He feels that she should keep the option of children open if she wants him in her life because its very important to him...she may feel that he should accept her with or without the possibility of future children if he loves her....who is right?

I would hesitate in planning a future with anyone if there was anything about their personality, lifestyle or religious beliefs that I felt I might resent later on. If something were to develop AFTER marriage (infertility, substance abuse, change of lifestyle/beliefs) I would handle it alot differently than I would if I knew about the situation BEFORE marriage. Once a commitment is made, the partners have an obligation to each other to try and work it out, whether it is something they like or not.....but before marriage you still have the opportunity to decide if its for you.

I guess I've been through one divorce and don't intend to go through another one, so I'm alot more cautious now about making "compromises" that I don't think will fit my life.

Look, for all of you. It may be unreasonable, and I doubt they had a very deep relationship if they break apart because she cannot have kids, but either way, it's not about that. He is trying to discuss his concerns that his SO will not be able to have kids due to an operation, he's not very knowledgable about. The only person who can decide anything about the operation is his SO. Everyone here believes, and rightfully so, that if he truly loves her, than this issue should not be a breaking point. Besides your sympathies, no one has suggested way of him to have children later.

For the record I do understand the operation and read about it online in medical procedure pages. i get what it does and its permanancy. I am just simply asking her to consider other alternatives besides something so permanant if she would for see kids between us. i'll keep you all posted. I don't want her decision to be a deal breaker at all, I do however have to look at my own interests and needs an weigh out whether or not for going my desire for children will create problems in our future whatever that may be.