whats so bad about being honest??

not sure if anyone else out there has seen this show called "American Idol".I had heard about it last season.never watched it,not into talent type shows,but I did keep hearing about this guy "Simon" and how mean he was and how rude he was.So I watch it these last 3 weeks to see the auditions and to see just how "terrible" this Simon guy is......well.....he wasn't terrible at all.he was HONEST.he told people who couldn't sing,that they couldn't sing and how bad they were.he didn't "sugar coat" it,he said it how it was.It got me to thinking why didn't people who cared about these "terrible singers" tell them how bad they were,rather then let them go on national TV and humiliate themself????why didn't like a family member or loved one intervine and say something like,"you know we love your singing,but not everyone may and we don't want to see your feelings get hurt"......has honesty become such a rare thing,that when someone is honest about how bad someone may be,as in these cases,that people assume that this person is a "bad"or "mean" person because he/she is "honest"????/just wondering...well like I said,this Simon guy didn't seem so bad to me.just honest with his feelings about peoples lack of talent.after all i had heard about him from last season,i thought the guy was gonna have horns...I thought he was great and as I said,it's just too bad someone didn't stop these people that could not sing,before they went to these auditions....some of them even argued that they could sing when it was obvious to everyone there they couldn't:confused:


I guess you have to kinda feel sorry for some of those people,because they really thought they were good singers and they got mad because they were told they sucked...But I really did like Simon,he was brutal with his honesty,not just hateful.just honest.....

going just off the previews (all i've seen of it) i'd say it's not just that he's being honest that's got people riled, but the way it's gone about. would anybody watch the show if it was just a string of crappy auditions? no, they want to see people get ridiculed and humiliated.

it's just like that quiz game show (name eludes me, not sure it's still on) with the english lady that insulted the contestants bitterly. without her biting wit and abuse the show would have been pretty dull and not been nearly as popular. it's kind of a sick trend in popular television lately.

i mean honestly, to get on national television do you think each person isn't thoroughly auditioned and hand picked beforehand? they're probably stroked and told they're good, accepted from a pool of auditioners, then lead up on stage for the sole purpose of knocking them down again in front of the rest of the world for ratings.

now, don't get me wrong, i think honesty is highly underrated and i loathe patronising and sugar coating, but i also think the trend of entertainment by way of insulting, condescending or otherwise tearing somebody down for the amusement of the masses is pretty of sick and twisted. on the other hand, i may have the basis for the show all wrong, but based on what i've seen and what you've said, the shoe seems to fit.

at anyrate, i'm agreeing with you in principle, just possibly not in the given example. :)

the other thing to consider i think though, is that beauty truely is in the eye of the beholder. should somebody be "honest" and tell me i'm so ugly i should be shot and buried before harming the delicate eyes of another hapless individual, or should they realize that tastes vary and some others may find me highly desirable?

granted, the same isn't as true for singing, as an example, but at the same time tastes do vary from individual to individual and it may be a little premature for us all to go on an "honesty" binge and start lashing out what really amounts only to personal opinion.

just my $.02, and my two cents ain't worth a dime. ;)


j

I am glad you posted this Naf. Listening to some of these people on the show leaves me no choice but to agree with Simon, whether it's staged or not. Most of these people have no business singing in the shower, let alone in public.

I agree with you based on this:

I don't care who tells me I can sing, If I sound as bad as some of these people on the show (which I do), I SHOULD KNOW I cannot carry a tune and someone should pop my bubble for the sake of ME!

I think the Karaoke trend started all this. People go to Bowling Allies, Karaoke Bars, etc., and belt out in really bad voices. And if you've ever have been to one of these places, you know some of these guys REALLY THINK THEY KNOW HOW TO SING. Hello...tape your voice, listen to yourself, really listen to people's comments about you; not from the people who love you and will compliment your voice, even if they are wearing earplugs while you are singing, but others.

Jaye, I agree that the way the show works it's probably the way you say, but it's the person's own fault when he/she puts him/herself in this type of situation. As I said, if I want to avoid the hurt, I will not put myself in the way of it.

That's my 2 cents, and in today's economy, I probably owe!

Originally posted by nafadda
why didn't people who cared about these "terrible singers" tell them how bad they were,rather then let them go on national TV and humiliate themself????

Hm.... maybe because it's TV? Yankee commercial TV at that, shrink-wrapped with sensationalism. You should probably just keep it turned off. :p

Honesty is always the best policy, but rudeness is never appropriate. I had to respond to this being a singer myself. People's tastes very so widely, who's to say who's good and who isn't? It's like art. One person may love a painting, another person may abhor it! You wouldn't walk right up to the artist and say, "Your painting absolutely sucks! You shouldn't paint!" would you? I personally don't believe anyone can tell anyone else whether they're "good" or not, because it is absolutely relative to the person's tastes. Each singer, dancer, artist, musician, is only expressing his or her own inner talent. As long as he or she gets enjoyment out of it, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Now if a person puts himself or herself out in front of an audience to be judged, then the judgement will take place, and that's the nature of the business. If someone is rude in their opinion, oh well, but I still don't think it's necessary. If I see a band that sucks, I just don't hang around. I don't walk up to them and say, "You guys suck!" They have people around them that would disagree, and anyway, maybe it was just my taste.

The show is about sensationalism. It's making people look like morons, which America LOVES to do. I too, feel sorry for those on that show. Some of them were clearly set up. The guy could very easily say, "You aren't what we're looking for, you didn't make the cut, but here's why, and if you still think you should be doing this, go back, work harder at it, and maybe you'll eventually succeed on some level." What would be wrong with that? What's wrong with honesty doled out with a bit of compassion? Being honest is a virtue. Using honesty as an avenue to be cruel and mean is inexcusable.

I must agree with Jaye, Polly and Caramel here. I find Simon's "honesty" to be brutal and appalling. I find nearly every "reality" show I've heard of to be mean spirited and repulsive.
The one I find lately to be the most agregious is Joe Millionaire which is insulting and misogynistic. It just insults everyone! Not only is it demeaning to the women on it, but it demeans men who make an honest, if not a highly lucrative living.
Why did this sort of cruel voyeurism become entertainment anyway? (Other than for the obvious reason that television producers needn't pay scriptwriters or actors or actually spend money on producing intelligent stories into series or movies.) As long as people keep watching this kind of drivel, broadcast TV will keep dishing it out to us.

On the other hand Nafadda, you're absolutely right. All those people who came to be insulted by Simon should have had someone prevent them from making targets of themselves. You'd think someone who cared about them would have tried to talk them out of going. (Some people are just hardheaded though, maybe they couldn't be dissuaded.)

I dunno, I'm mystified by the whole phenomenon of Reality TV and the general mean spiritedness of the nation in general lately.
Guess I'm still just an old hippy who still believes in "live and let live" and "peace and love".
Just my opinion, I could be wrong. :)

Val

hmmmmm,good points to ponder:)

i agree,alot of it's done for the "shock" value,or it would be just another boreing talent show.I had to see on my own what this Simon guy was all about,after all I had heard so much about him last season..I think he's great,and very good looking too.


[jaye]the other thing to consider i think though, is that beauty truely is in the eye of the beholder. should somebody be "honest" and tell me i'm so ugly i should be shot and buried before harming the delicate eyes of another hapless individual, or should they realize that tastes vary and some others may find me highly desirable? [/QUOTE]


no,if someone told you you should be shot and buried because they thought you were ugly(which you are far from )that would just be MEAN....but now,if you care about someone and that person happens to be short,(which I am),fat,and unatractive,and they are thinking about trying out to be a "Sports Illustrated"swimsuit model.I would think it would be in their best intrest to intervine and nicely let them know how tuff the competition is and how they may not be in "super model"league..thats not saying they wouldn't be good at something else.just not being a super model//same goes with these supposed singers...i mean,some of them REALLY SUCKED.why didn't someone who cared about them try and intervene as to save the humiliation....i mean sure some would still go,but i couldn't stand to see someone I cared about have that happen to them.

I don't think it was up to that Simon guy to have to be tactful.if thats not how he talks and he is just brutally honest ,so be it.I don't think that makes him bad at all....I like the honesty....ifhe was just rude and told people they were ugly.that would be different...

Some of these people thought they could sing..they couldn't.he told them,and they got mad .thats pretty much it.I think he was called an asshole about 50 times ,i thought he was funny,honest,and would not have had so many bad singers to work with,if the friends and /or family of these "bad singers" would have stepped in and not lied to them and told them how great they were...i'm sure some would still go on the show,you have to let people make their own choices in life,but should I ever try out for a "super model"Spots Illustrated swimsuit photo shoot,I do hope someone who cares about me will shake me into reality no matter how they do it and let me know that I'm to short,to old and would really be out of my league...:eek:


[Mister Miew]Hm.... maybe because it's TV? Yankee commercial TV at that, shrink-wrapped with sensationalism. You should probably just keep it turned off. [/QUOTE]

no way.......it was way TOOOOOO fun to watch to do that(plus as I've said before,I thought Simon was great and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about him,I couldn't do that if I didn't watch it)...I admit it was a "guilty pleasure" and so is watching "Joe Millionare"which I admit to doing...gotta love that YANKEE TV:eek:

You all make some important points. I gladly take and appreciate honesty, whether in a steady relationship or some other aspect of life. I can't say I've ever watched "American Idol" -- too busy watching "ESPN's National Hockey Night" -- but I've heard Simon can be pretty brash.

For me, 99% of the time, it's not what others say about me, but how they say it. If they're diplomatic and compassionate, their message will get through and I'll learn to do better next time. But if they're brash and arrogant, then they should just go talk to a brick wall.

last night on the O'Riely Factor with Bill O'Riely,he had 2 guest on re: this reality Tv stuff(which is also discused in the tv/movie forum ..)the woman guest was claiming how WE,if we watch this stuff,like the "cruel auditions" on American Idol,are the ones that are "hurting"these people that are on the show,that are being made fun of?????so are the advertisers,she claims.She seemed to have thought that we are exposing people at their most vulnerable and laughing at them...the same goes for watching people who are regected on these date shows(eg"Joe Millionaire)................well another guest did not agree,neither did I.These people who insist on going on these shows and facing regection and ridicule are hurting themselves,the people who care about them,that don't try and stop them from going on these shows are hurting them and the fact that some of them want their "15 minutes" of fame soooo bad that they are willing to do anything is what's hurting them...not me,if I'm sitting in my living room,shaking my head and laughing.
why can't people just take responsibility for their own actions???their own choices????why "the blame game" thing.???this is just a little too PC for me:confused:

Had the flu - watched a whole hour of Elimidate - for the 1st time - and found it just about the cruelest, silliest, most supericial and inane, self-esteem busting tripe I'd ever watched. Not good for the people participating, and equally lousy for the people watching.

What kind of lesson is this about how the world works is this for kids? What kind of reminder of stupidity, vanity and general venality for the rest of us?

We should really just say no to this garbage.

The networks are having the last laugh now being able to dispense with writers, actors, directors or anybody else. More dough in their pockets and they're laughing at the people who watch this stuff all the way to the bank.

IMHO :>

[DesertSprins]Not good for the people participating, and equally lousy for the people watching. [/QUOTE]

you know,sometimes I just want to sit in my own home and watch something really stupid,that has NO meaning,that makes me so I don't have to think about anything...there's enough crap going on in this world today,what with talk of war everyday,the economy,crime and just day to day stress that people have to go through,that if I want to look at something as meaningless as AI auditions and laugh at people I should be able to do so without being made to feel as though I am an "evil person".

[DesertSprings]What kind of lesson is this about who the world works is this for kids? [/QUOTE]

well I don't have kids,but I do know kids have been cruel to other kids LONG before reality tv came into being.....also,video games with all the violence,are worse as far as I'm concerned.as i said,people have got to be responsible for their own actions.people with children that don't find the show a good thing for them to watch,should just not let them watch it,it's just that simple,not make me feel evil if i choose to watch it.the world does not revolve around anyone,kids or adults...and like the song says,,,"oHHH baby,baby,it's a Wild World"....I don't think it will be the worse thing a kid ever encounters in life,and it may be a valuable lesson,as what NOT to do..;)


[desertSprings]they're laughing at the people who watch this stuff all the way to the bank.[/QUOTE]

that's ok with me,they gave me a laugh,so it's only fair,after all,there are so few things to laugh about these days with all the bad things going on in the world;)

i guess the reason i don't like them is the general attitude they help to perpetuate that ripples through all of society. you used to walk into stores and have the staff be polite and helpful. this is SO opposite of what happens to me now. even in situations where you're paying to be given respect, common courtesy and helpfulness you're more often than not greeted with rudeness, cynacism, sarcasm and a general bad attitude.

maybe i'm just overgeneralizing things, but i can't see how sitting around in the evening vegging on the tube watching people be rude, cynical, sarcastic assholes can really be helping this overall attitude in people. my mom always said "garbage in, garbage out" and it's true. even if you're just zoning out trying to go brainless and relax awhile, it's still being absorbed into your psyche and contributing to your persona - as does every single thing we see, do, and experience.

Mark Twain wrote that we are the sum of our experiences and observations, and even if this is only true to a degree, stuffing ourselves full of negativity and meanness can't be helping us to become nice, happy people.

i do think people are responsible for their own actions, and would want to smack anybody that said "tv made me an asshole," but by the same token, i do think that television and popular media in general contribute to overall opinions and attitudes and will tend to perpetuate and exaggerate at the lowest common denominator.

just my personal opinion. ignore at will. ;)

j

Over here Simon Callow is treated as a joke and RIDICULED pretty much everywhere. Maybe that's why he took his trash to the US??? Sorry folks...unlucky for some!

RH

[Robin_Hood]Over here Simon Callow is treated as a joke and RIDICULED pretty much everywhere. Maybe that's why he took his trash to the US??? Sorry folks...unlucky for some![/QUOTE]

See what happens when someone get's ridiculed????They turn into a Simon and get even:eek:

he seems to be doing good over here.you see his face everywhere.as I stated thats why I watched the try-outs,just to see this Simon guy I kept hearing about,couldn't care less about who wins.

well I guess it just goes to show we're all not the same.Maybe that explains why the french think Jerry Lewis is some kind of "Super Star"...what's up with that.

and as far as watching this "trash" tv sometimes,I don't think it has made me too evil a person.I still take homeless animals in and have them all spayed or neuterd,still preach to everone who will listen to have their pets fixed,still take the time to listen to friends of mine when they have problems(even when I'm busy),still live what i feel is a good productive life as a person......yes I think there are alot of rude sales people too jaye,but if they are too rude,I find the manager and let them know.just had to do that the other day.

;)

i just realized something,while looking at another thread.I think people seem to have more of a dislike for the reality tv shows then for porn.....some think it's trash and thats their right,but on the other hand some people think porno is a little trashier:eek: :eek: :confused: but some people will admit to watching porn before they will admit to watching a trashy reality show.....some think these reality shows are a "bad" thing,while some think porn is degrading to woman....hmmmmmmm,I don't know,it's just a good thing we're all not the same...but I do know someone besides me in America watched that Joe Millionaire,because the ratings were just a little too high for that to be the case:p

I totally agree with "simon" let him be rude!!
I was just lately watching this with my family and I asked my oldest son (19) "why don't these people know how BAD they sing" His honest 19 year old answer was " Mom, just think if we sent "Travis" to auditon and paid him to get there, just to see Simons reaction, it would be worth it!!" HA HA HA, And thats from a 19 year olds point of view. Let Simon be honest and rude, and yes some of the singing is real real bad, let him tell them so they either improve or get off it. Honesty is the best policy, and if they can't take HARD CRITISISIM than they are not destin for Hollywood or for improvement.
Its shit or get off the pot. It's Big time baby!!

"I think people seem to have more of a dislike for the reality tv shows then for porn......"

Yep. Porn is about orgasms, a thing I approve of. Reality TV is about humiliating people, a thing I don't approve of.

[Desert Springs]Yep. Porn is about orgasms, a thing I approve of. Reality TV is about humiliating people, a thing I don't approve of.[/QUOTE]


really????porn is just about orgasms?????hmmmmmm,there are some that may disagree with that statement.....some people think porn(alot of it anyway) is about humiliating woman,degrading to woman,and in some cases,an adictive thing,that is not always a good thing..
if the only way I could have an orgasm is via porn,well I guess that would be sad,to me at least.
anyway,saying porn is not humiliating in some cases ,just doesn't make sense to me.... I guess if you were to talk to some woman who have been invoved in porn that really didn't want to be,you may think of the humiliation factor a little more serious then reality tv.
does this mean I am anti porn??no...but if you think there have been no cases of HUMILIATION to people that have been involved in porn,your livin' in "LA LA LAND".I'll tell you right now I know for a fact that porn has F***ED up some people alot more then,simon callow,joe millionaire or any other reality tv show ever has...

maybe you should really look into what some people have been through because of porn before you say it is not humiliating...

granted,to someone with a healthy mind,porn may be fine.to someone like ted bundy,who killed over 30 woman,who said right before his execution in the electric chair,that his adiction to porn at an early age,was part of his rage and wanting to HUMILIATE and hurt woman(I'm apt to beleive what a guy says 5 minutes before he's fried,cause he has nothing to loose at that point)

I imagine if you talk to Linda Lovelace of "Deep Throat" fame and listen to how she was brutilized by a man she was with with,to star in that movie,and the HUMILIATION she went through before,during and after it,you may see that someone was HUMILIATED because of it.....but thats right.it was just so some could have an orgasm.....

reality tv is HUMILIATING to people,but porn isn't...yea WHATEVER,not in ALL cases:eek:

We're talking about watching (or perhaps using is a better eay to put it) porn - not
doing porn.

And we're talking about watching reality TV.

Most people who watch porn are getting off - having an orgasm.

Most people who watch reality TV are enjoying watching someone be put down, embarrassed, insulted, told they are a loser, or set up to do something stupid for the entertainment of the masses.

Ted Bundy does not seem to me to be an accurate description of the average consumer of porn.

And I suspect in 20 years we'll start having memoirs of people who had their self-esteem destroyed by one or another of those shows. It'll be called
"reality-TV syndrome".

And our kids will wonder what on earth we were thinking :>

DS says "Most people who watch reality TV are enjoying watching someone be put down, embarrassed, insulted, told they are a loser, or set up to do something stupid for the entertainment of the masses."

Total disagree with this statement, reality TV is just what it is REAL, sometimes it is great to watch REAL people other than FAKE ones to see how differant lives are.
I find it embarassing to watch total losers think they are BIG SHOTS. I find it completely exilirating to watch regular people make it big.
Remember Jerri the B@itch in Survior? Now she is on TV and getting popular, I think that is cool!
I don't watch it to see people put down at all. The people who are on reality TV have CHOSEN to do so.

[desert sprigs]We're talking about watching (or perhaps using is a better eay to put it) porn - not doing porn[/QUOTE]

gee,dumb me,and I thought we were talking about not wanting to see people humiliated

:confused: :confused: as if porn has ever done that to anyone

[dESERT SPRINGS]Most people who watch porn are getting off - having an orgasm. Most people who watch reality TV are enjoying watching someone be put down, embarrassed, insulted, told they are a loser, or set up to do something stupid for the entertainment of the masses.[/QUOTE]

AND NO BODY WHO WATCHES PORN IS ENJOYING SEEING ANYONE HUMILIATED:confused: i don't really think that's the case,maybe you should read some of the desriptions of woman on the porn sites

i don't think ted bundy was the only nut case that was addicted to porn....some people don't have healthy minds to start with.

but then again,some people see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear now don't they. :eek:

simon is going to be on Oprah tomorrow....wow he sure is popular in the USA.....I don't even watch Oprah,guess I'll have to tomorrow.

the show with all the bad singers last week was something else...he was honest with them telling them how bad they were and they REALLY thought they could sing good.....SAD:(

well I like him,he doesn't let people tell him how he should act(kinda like me).....even though some think they should tell me how I should think...ummmm.,I DON"T THINK SO....:eek:

remember,this post is about whats so bad about being HONEST...so here goes.........this is a quote from Desert Springs to something I posted last night(the same post is posted under chit chat,about should we be here if we are in a good relationship.......






QUOTE....Could you two please knock it off?

The people who were here at the time know all about it.

And the people who weren't don't care.

Advice and support, that's what this is here for, advice and support. END QUOTE

wow,just when I thought this entire site was for a couple people to shove their political beliefs re: the war down our throats......(less is more )

warned you I was going to be honest....Im rather sick of some members that think we must feel like they do or we are wrong...these are the same people that tell us what we can post,how we should post,what screen names we must use and so on......GET OVER YOURSELVES.......I always tell people this is MY opinion....no one else has to feel like I do about a topic,I don't care,..I don't shove my opinions down everyone elses throats...I don't think it's all about me....(remeber honesty)......so the next time some one feels the NEED to tell me what to post...do yourself a favor...just don't read my posts..better yet,why not block my name from showing you my post...thats a great idea....just don't tell me what to post,I don't tell you,I just ignore you ,unless it involves me directly(if it's indirectly,I just don't care)....oh ,by the way..this is just being honest.

Nafadda, what put the burr under your saddle?

I've always respected your opinion and you have been a responsible member of this community. What's the matter? What has suddenly prompted you to stand up and declare that saying anything, no matter how cruel, is fine as long as you are honest? I can't believe you really mean that.

Think what this world would be like if no one censored what they said? It certainly wouldn't be one I'd want to live in. Life would be a barrage of truthful insults. The truth is only good if it hurts no one, or if one must then it must be tempered with gentle words and an explaination.

Mean TV. I've been meaning to write a professional article on this for a couple of years. The trouble is that it is so endemic and so epidemic that I can't narrow it down -- there's too much of it and it would require research that I don't want to do. I don't want to have to see and hear it.

Good old Simon is the ring leader at the modern version of the Roman Gladiator games. People watch to see how awful someone is and how rudely they get put down. This talent concept is not new. There was Star Search and it's parent Talent Hunt back in the 1950s. The difference was that people were not allowed to participate unless they actually had talent. The purpose was to find the best -- not humilate the worst.

You might want to think why you enjoy watching people get their feelings hurt. They've been lied to and led on and then crushed publicly. Is this really the kind of entertainment you enjoy? Is honesty just an excuse for cruelty here? What about those people who are crying and will hear his comments echo in their minds maybe forever? What about their pain? Have we become a world where people's feelings no longer matter as long as we are being entertained by watching them?

Porn or reality TV...they are the same. They both exploit someone for gain in the name of entertainment. The difference is that the viewer of "normal" porn thinks only of the pleasure and does not see the cruelty of the industry that produces it, while the watcher of reality TV sees the pain first hand.

I'm not sure of the purpose of this thread except to try to state that it's okay to be cruel as long as you are honest about what you say. I'm sorry, being mean is not excused by saying you were being honest. That doesn't make it okay any more than the fact that Simon is getting rich makes it okay for him to publicly humilate people. At some point in your life you draw the line at what is acceptable and what is not. I don't think you will find many people that will agree that it's okay to be mean in the name of honesty. I'm not even sure you believe it.

I believe that kindness pays off in a million ways. It got me the most wonderful man in the world as my husband. The rewards are long term and far reaching even it they are not always as immediate as this skewed version of honesty.

Peace,
BA

HONESTY involves telling a situation FROM ALL SIDES, not some self-delusional version.

Am I the only one on this site who has strong political views and the desire to express them? Am I the only one who posted strongly regarding those views?

Anyone who refers to posts I made to illustrate a point they're trying to make, needs to be HONEST and tell WHY I posted what I did, especially if they're trying to use my post in a negative light. I'm most likely the most honest person here. I have this naive notion that the people here are REAL, and I care about them and what happens to them. Lying to anyone would be a disservice to myself. I wasn't brought up that way and I don't live my life that way.

I have no problem ignoring you, unless you post something pertaining to me, and aren't HONEST about it.

I think this whole concept of "cruel to be kind" is a load... BA is right a person can be honest from all sides, but it can be done in a gentle and respectful way. Why tear someone down, this world is harsh enough as it is. Terry

ok people Im getting a little tired of responding to post that feel the need to question or look for things,but here goes...


BA...your a sweet lady.but.....BUT I'M EDITING NOW...I changed my mind..I don't really care for you now either,you think what you say is always right and hide behind it with this peace stuff...oh yea,thats cool UNLESS SOMEONE DARES TO NOT HAVE THE SAME OPINION AS A SELECT FEW....do you know how many PM's and emails I have gotten from people who have been afraid to disagree with some of you "old timers"here ?their afraid they will be raked over the coals if they do...well guess what lady,im not one of them.go read the replies to NESSA that YOU condoned,just because it was members of the "CLUB" that did the rakeing....but you saw NOTHING wrong with them.keep telling people how to live their lives and what is right and what is wrong....I'll stick to being an HONEST person.

[Bears angel]I've always respected your opinion and you have been a responsible member of this community. What's the matter? What has suddenly prompted you to stand up and declare that saying anything, no matter how cruel, is fine as long as you are honest? I can't believe you really mean that.[/QUOTE]


just wondering if you ever asked other people (hmmmm,like Melisande) that question...???

Nafadda, what put the burr under your saddle?

did you read the post in question???I posted something,mentioned No names because it wasn't important and it was a reply to a post and someone turns the post into "It's ALL about ME"..."POOR ME"."NAFADDA is SOOOO MEAN....thats WEIRD!!!!!


RE: good ol'Simon...I like him,plain and simple.I think he lets people know that some are persueing the wrong dreams,like I mentioned in the start of this post,these peoples friends and families should have stopped some of these people from humiliating themselves on national Tv....if they cared about them they would have done just that(thats what Kareoke is good for,for some people who want to sing but really can't) is that mean???/not to me...

[BA]You might want to think why you enjoy watching people get their feelings hurt. They've been lied to and led on and then crushed publicly. Is this really the kind of entertainment you enjoy? Is honesty just an excuse for cruelty here? What about those people who are crying and will hear his comments echo in their minds maybe forever? What about their pain? Have we become a world where people's feelings no longer matter as long as we are being entertained by watching them?[/QUOTE]

well BA,this may not fair well with you or some others,but...it's a tough world out there...there will always be something that causes someone pain,,,that's life,and NO ONE forced these people to go on this show.if thats the worse pain in life they ever endure they are lucky(but I really think far worse things will happen to them throughout their life)
hmmm.why I enjoy watching it???#1,first and foremost is because I can...I don't like porn,but I don't try and make people feel guilty because they do,,

[BA]I'm not sure of the purpose of this thread except to try to state that it's okay to be cruel as long as you are honest about what you say. [/QUOTE]

may I suggest you read the start of it in that case...I questioned why people didn't stop people from going on a show,getting told they have no talent,,which THEY DON"t and then calling the person who says it mean....that was the purpose..ummm chit chat...what's up with all of a sudden people having this need to tell people how to post,what to post,what to watch,what name to use...and by no means is all that directed at you BA,but really if thats how it is then maybe just one person should post and everyone else say"yes,I agree"...I've said before and seems like I have to say it again..I don't agree with all the post,but I do agree people have the right to say how they feel,even if it differs from my opinion.....I mean call me stupid,but isn't that the way it should be??? and if it's not,it will certainly deteer some people from posting,because they will be afraid that theor opinion is not "the popular"one...just because it's the popular vote doesn't make it right.:eek:

[BA]I believe that kindness pays off in a million ways. It got me the most wonderful man in the world as my husband. [/QUOTE]

Ditto,and if you ever read any of my post you'll be able to figure that one out.:)

and polly...just 7 simple words....PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR IGNORE LIST!!!!!

Well, now we understand one another. You have no problem being cruel if it suits your idea of being honest. It is a tough old world out there, honey and you need all the friends you can get. You appear not to need any at least not on this board. Too bad. Your loss.

As to why people respond to this. Well, like you said they CAN and they have the right to say anything they please as long as they are honest. If that bothers you don't put up another post and you won't be troubled with people responding.

I don't particularly give a rats *** who you like or who you don't. I find now that I don't particularly like you. But I'm being honest, so it's okay to say that. After all we wouldn't want you to be misled. You choose to be harsh, you choose to make some else's misery your entertainment and that says a lot more about you than it says about them.

I'm glad your marriage is happy. I hope it continues that way. I hope he can deal with your brand of honesty. Me, I can and will live without it.

Toodles...

you didn't answer my first question???? was it because I had an opinion that was mine????wow,sorry you feel that way.i reread what I wrote and it was all said very nicely:confused: :confused: maybe I should have said I HATED SIMON????or better yet,just agreed with everything you said.....



[BA]It is a tough old world out there, honey and you need all the friends you can get. You appear not to need any at least not on this board. Too bad. Your loss.[/QUOTE]


wow,and now you speak for everyone.....that's cool.strange,but ok......whatever;) ;) ;)

I didn't realize you asked a question, it all seemed pretty rambling...

If you mean about asked the question of other people like Melisande. You of course mean have I told Mel she speaks too harshly in the name of truth. Nope. Never needed to since her posts were responsible and she never waved the flag of "I can say anything I please" around. I have debated it here and other other boards over the years. There is always someone who thinks that anything is permissible in the name of truth.

I don't understand how asking about Mel is having an opinion. Maybe we have a different deffinition of them.

As for speaking for everyone on this board. Well, you can only be rude to so many people until there aren't enough left you like to bother coming back to a board. Being rude doesn't make friends, well not among the folks I prefer to hang out with. But what do I know...not trying to speak for everyone.

Actually I much prefer posts that don't agree with me. I to think it's amusing to watch someone declare that they can say anything they damn please. This is a community and like a community rude unpleasant people eventually find themselves on the outside. It's a pity but it happens because it's a harsh old world and there are those who like to make fun of people who are just doing their best. Sooner or later someone will come along who laughs at you. Life is as they say...a bi**h.

:)