Good News; Bad News

Today after a fun day offroading in our 4x4's with friends, Robb told me that although he loves camping with me, kayaking with me, mountain biking with me, that I'm his best friend, he wanted me to know that I am free to see others. He said he doesn't need a girlfriend in the romantic sense. He said it was nothing I did or didn't do. He said, "it just got old!" In 11 years and 8 months, we never had a serious argument. Once, we had a slight misunderstanding, which got ironed out quickly enough. He said he didn't want to do the maintenance part of a relationship although he acknowledged that I am not high maintenance, that, in fact, I asked very little of him, but, he didn't want to do even that. He said, "you know the clique, 'it's me, not you.'" Yes, of course, I'm hurting and crying (but not in front of him). I am not a manipulating woman, something he used to love in me. You know what really surprises me, is the lack of depth of the love he supposedly had for me. Of course, things tend to get old after a while, but, I didn't think it meant that the love got old and too much trouble to deal with. Please understand that I did everything I knew to do to help keep the sexual side of our relationship exciting, but, apparently, it wasn't enough. Doesn't seem fair that I'm hurting and he isn't. It was so easy for him to let it all go. I asked him if there was someone else, and he said "no." I believe him. He said he still expects to maintain my 4x4 truck, help me whenever I need help, because he's my friend. I said, I would come and remove my kayak, my mountain bike, and my radio-controlled glider planes from his garage, and he objected, saying it would just be more trouble for him to have to come to my garage to put them on his truck racks whenever we went out kayaking or mountain biking. Please excuse the rambling; so many thoughts going through my head--trying to understand--- "It just got old!" I didn't know I was just a diversion, entertainment for the moment. Sure hurts! I always said, that I took it one day at a time, and so I did. I had over 4200 days-- wonderful days. He gave me much and I'll always remember that. But, I guess the universe has other plans for me and him. Would it be okay if I mourn what has been the happiest part of my life before I move on?

I'm sorry to hear this is happening to you right now.

Suprisingly I have a friend going through a divorce who said something similiar to you. She said that her husband and her had never had a serious argument either. And out of the blue he no longer wants to be married.

Me and my fiance can fight like cats and dogs at times. Sometimes I wonder if not fighting at all is really any better than having a big blow out every now and then.

And I see nothing wrong with you mourning the end of this relationship. Why wouldn't you? You gave complete dedication to someone who blindsides you with "I'm just not that into you" kinda crap. I'm sure he's a wonderful person. But anyone who waits 11 years to say "Hey let's just be friends" yanks my chain and makes me want to slap him.

(((hugs))) You don't deserve this type of treatment. And thank him for me for being a complete a** right before x-mas and New Year. Personally I believe there is someone else or there is about to be (hence cutting you free to relieve himself of any guilt he'd feel persuing it).

:( I'm so sorry to hear this news. I'm just floored by Robb's comment. Hugs to you ((((Flyer))))

I'm so sorry, Flyer. I have trouble understanding the logic in finding your relationship "old" after 11+ years together. I've always felt that it's the responsibility of the two partners to keep the spark going. So, using the phrase "it just got old" to me is a cop out. Yes, he gave you 11 years of his life, but he's now a quitter, in my view.

Again, I am so sorry.

((((((( hugs )))))))

i am sorry to hear this. of course you mourn, it is part of the healing.

Flyer....
Wow... I'm so sorry you are going through this all right now. His timing sucks right before the holidays. The hardest part for me (when this situation happened in my life 3 years ago) was the sheer suprise of it and feeling like "why didn't I get a chance to be a part of this decision??" It's like they stew about things they are feeling, but never let YOU in on it...then, they make their decision, and BOOM, "It's not you it's me.." It's cowardly, really, rather than communicating and working through the "it's getting old" things together to make things stronger, etc.

If I could give you a huge hug IRL, I would right now. I'm so sorry. Cry, vent, do whatever you need to here (I sure did back then)...you are entitled to, and it helps, really.


I can't remember the details with your story, do you mind sharing? Were you two married? What were your ages when you met, and how did you meet?

It's going to feel bad right now, but do whatever you can to divert attention away from him. I know he says he wants to remain friends (most guys do because that gives them their cake so they can eat it too), but if it hurts too much to do that while he "sees other people", I say, cut the contact...totally disengage by removing all your stuff from his place or whatever. A clean break is sometimes the only way to regain emotional health after being virtually "abandoned" like this.

Focus on yourself, and do things that make you feel good, pampered or whatever.

I hate to say this, but it sounds like he may already have his thoughts drifiting to someone else specifically. What I mean is, when a guy pulls out (changes his mind) so abruptly, saying, "It's not you it's me", it often means he already has his sights set on someone else. This may or may not be true in your case, but I wanted to mention it in case it presents itself so that you aren't blindsided by that as well.

Remember, most importantly....it TRULY IS HIM, not you. You are a loving, giving, beautiful woman: You are enough. He's the one who has issues at this point. Too bad he didn't have the courage of a real man to give you some hint into his thought processes of the past weeks and months to let you be a part of this decision. I'm sorry, honey. Hang in there, ok??

Huge cyber-hug,
Karen

men are NOT unemotional beings, its not easy for them to walk away either.

something under the radar was going on.

because you kept it casual for so long, he may not have felt the committment and responsibility that went along with a relationship.

let a guy off the hook and many guys will take that option.

some do need their feet held to the fire and they need to reigned in a bit. if they truly love you a lighting bolt will go off in their heads and they will GET it, they can have "AH HA" moments.

being completely upset is not being manipulative. you dont have to live up to his expectations of your feelings and emotions.

i think you need to mourn but i think a bit of an outburst if even on only this site is called for.

in every relationship we learn more about our selves, we learn what we do want and dont want and hopefully along the way we learn its ok to ask for certain things and EXPECT them.

the way he told you, seems like he felt that was ok, no deep heart to heart is what i feel is sorely missed here.

intimacy is just not sex, sex is the outcome of intimacy, a man committs also with his heart and mind and that has to be as explored as physical sex.

i am not sure where he felt like he was off the hook but 11 years does deserve some very deep connecting and HONEST explanation.

i am sorry for your loss.

Flyer, I'm so sorry. I know how much you have loved him. I can feel your hurt.

Reading you through the years, I remember incidents where he was a bit distant and you were doing things to "hold it together". It seemed like he wanted you in his life, but not as a wife. I remember once you talked about having a tummy tuck because he said something about your stomach. I think the conclusion we all came to was that he was a bit of a selfish kind of person, not really the kind to give of himself, yet expected you to be "perfect" (which, it sounds like you pretty much tried to be).

It's hard to let go. I can attest to that. It won't be easy and it won't be anytime soon. Expect pain...LOTS of it! :( I think it would be worse trying to stay friends with him right now. For your own preservation, you need to really cut ties with him completely (who gives a rat's *** how he feels right now!) You need to mourn this, focus completely on yourself and on healing, and move on. Again, no easy task, but trying to be friends with him will make it impossible. Someday down the line it might be possible, but definitely not right now. Don't answer the phone, don't answer the door, don't return e-mails. Tell him you need some space right now and he needs to respect that. Don't call him under any circumstances. Don't call him to fix your car, or do some repairs.

From what I've read of you, you're in very good shape and like doing lots of activities. There are lots of men out there who are seeking a woman just like you, and they DO want a relationship of substance. After this "luke warm" relationship with Rob, I think it's time you opened yourself up to the world and allowed yourself to meet a man who sweeps you off your feet and ADORES YOU BACK! The street has to run both ways, or you end up feeling neglected, hurt, and lonely. Been there.

Oh, and a word about fighting. It's necessary! How else can you have hot make-up sex if you don't have a good fight? LOL Seriously though, expressing strong emotions about something is essential in communication, because the other person gets to see you in depth and take you more seriously. If you're always easy going, c'est la vie attitude, you're setting yourself up to be a doormat. I just called Robin a really ugly term the other day (yelling) and even I stopped myself and thought, "Wow! That was really ugly!" LOL But it emphasized my point and he knew how strongly I felt. In our house, if momma ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy! Sometimes it's the other way, he feels strongly about something, he turns out to be right, and I have to give in. If we didn't argue, this healthy exchange wouldn't take place and we'd both walk around with pent up emotions, breeding resentment.

You have a lot of years left to live and be happy and be loved. I think you're ready for something more meaningful and substantial.

Flyer, I am sorry about how you must be feeling now. As I was reading your post, where you say you did not fight, I thought, some relationships are broken due to too many fights, this one sounded perfect, lots of activities together, harmony. How could he be so selfish and/or blind and stay in a relationship for 11 years without the level of commited love that he was receiving and just sit there and make you waste your time. This makes me mad. :mad:

men are NOT unemotional beings, its not easy for them to walk away either.

something under the radar was going on.

because you kept it casual for so long, he may not have felt the committment and responsibility that went along with a relationship.

let a guy off the hook and many guys will take that option.

some do need their feet held to the fire and they need to reigned in a bit. if they truly love you a lighting bolt will go off in their heads and they will GET it, they can have "AH HA" moments.

being completely upset is not being manipulative. you dont have to live up to his expectations of your feelings and emotions.

i think you need to mourn but i think a bit of an outburst if even on only this site is called for.

in every relationship we learn more about our selves, we learn what we do want and dont want and hopefully along the way we learn its ok to ask for certain things and EXPECT them.

the way he told you, seems like he felt that was ok, no deep heart to heart is what i feel is sorely missed here.

intimacy is just not sex, sex is the outcome of intimacy, a man committs also with his heart and mind and that has to be as explored as physical sex.

i am not sure where he felt like he was off the hook but 11 years does deserve some very deep connecting and HONEST explanation.

i am sorry for your loss.

Kittylane is DEAD ON THE MONEY. Something under the radar was happening...and what she said about sex and intimacy is right on the money, too.

Wait for the other shoe to drop...it's gonna.

I'm sorry, dear Flyer. He has some serious explaining to do!

Flyer . . . I am so sorry you are hurting. Of course, you can mourn here . . . if not here, where?? That's what we're all about . . . supporting, caring and listening.

I have to agree with Polly . . . while I don't think a relationship will survive if a couple argues all the time about everything, I do believe if there is never an argument about anything, there is also no passion. I think it's the differences between the two people and the discussions about those differences and the compromises that we make that helps a relationship grow.

Perhaps your guy felt the relationship was not growing and had become stale . . . in his words "old." It does take a certain amount of effort to keep a relationship going, but that effort has to come from both sides. It sounds like you were stoking the fire, but he decided that was too much "trouble."

For what it's worth, I suspect he will regret it one day.

Take some time to pamper yourself and you do need to grieve the loss of the relationship in order to move ahead into an emotionally healthy future. And be assured that we're here for you anytime you need to call on us. :)

Thank you all for your kind and supportive thoughts. Many of you have PM'd me and I will reply to each of you. I've always known that Ageless was so much like a family, yes, times of disagreement, even angry words, but, always, and I mean always, when someone is in pain, you are there to embrace them and hold them up when their world seems to be collapsing under them. You are truly special. Thank you.

[QUOTE=AngelAngel]Me and my fiance can fight like cats and dogs at times. Sometimes I wonder if not fighting at all is really any better than having a big blow out every now and then.

Yes, I thought about whether having arguments actually helps maintain the drama in a relationship and if that is a good thing. The reality is that Robb and I actually had nothing to fight about. Because we didn't live together, we didn't have any issues more challenging than what do you want to do this weekend or where do we go for dinner. Neither of us tried to control the behavior or decisions of the other. We are both so independent. Robb has said he didn't know anyone who were as independent as he and I were. I'm beginning to think there is such a thing as being too independent.

[QUOTE=whiterose]I'm so sorry, Flyer. I have trouble understanding the logic in finding your relationship "old" after 11+ years together. I've always felt that it's the responsibility of the two partners to keep the spark going. So, using the phrase "it just got old" to me is a cop out. Yes, he gave you 11 years of his life, but he's now a quitter, in my view.

It's hard for me, too, to understand how you let almost 12 years of a relationship and before that, 3 years of growing friendship, go. I guess it's the one-to-one relationship that he's letting go of; he wants to keep the friendship. What I'm seeing now is that we were just friends with privileges all along. I was his first love, and especially because of the age difference, I was not altogether trusting of his declarations of eternal love. I know people change. When we first got together, I was the one who wanted to take it slower. Yes, we had been friends, but, suddenly he wanted to get married but I was just getting over a 30-year marriage and was not ready for another committment of that magnitude. He asked me to marry him again just a week later, but, again, I told him, "no." He never asked again. I have always been relieved that he never asked again because I don't think I'm willing to give up my independent nature. I was married for so long and devoted myself to my children and my husband. At last, I was free--and wanted to remain so. I definitely think we were both to blame, but I was willing to work on it.

[QUOTE=SpecialK]Wow... I'm so sorry you are going through this all right now. His timing sucks right before the holidays. The hardest part for me (when this situation happened in my life 3 years ago) was the sheer suprise of it and feeling like "why didn't I get a chance to be a part of this decision??" It's like they stew about things they are feeling, but never let YOU in on it...then, they make their decision, and BOOM, "It's not you it's me.." It's cowardly, really, rather than communicating and working through the "it's getting old" things together to make things stronger, etc.

In all fairness to him, it was me that suggested that we take a break to consider things last June. For the past couple of years I have felt that he was distancing himself and I was feeling hurt by his behavior, e.g., he would walk ahead of me and no longer held my hand. Never hugged me anymore. So, I thought we needed to take a break, think about things and how to fix them, but, he, instead distanced himself even more, wouldn't call for a couple of weeks or come to see me. Instead, of trying to work things out to make things stronger, as you suggested, he copped out.

[QUOTE=Special K]I hate to say this, but it sounds like he may already have his thoughts drifiting to someone else specifically. What I mean is, when a guy pulls out (changes his mind) so abruptly, saying, "It's not you it's me", it often means he already has his sights set on someone else. This may or may not be true in your case, but I wanted to mention it in case it presents itself so that you aren't blindsided by that as well.

As I mentioned above, this is not so abruptly--but, even if it was another woman, she won't stay long. I tried to love him unconditionally, but, he is very selfish with his time and remarkably immature for a man his age (43). Frankly, one of the reasons I didn't want to live with him was because I could have never put up with his spending almost all his time in his garage playing with his "toys" or surfing or flying his radio-controlled gliders. His garage is oversized and is, for many men, a dream come true. He is an expert at designing and building from scratch radio-controlled gliders, and men who he flies with often come to his garage to get away from their homes for a while and indulge themselves in their hobby of building planes and the male commraderie that goes with that. Certainly, it would hurt if and when he finds another woman, but, most women want a lot more than I ever asked of him and he knows that.

I can't remember the details with your story, do you mind sharing? Were you two married? What were your ages when you met, and how did you meet?

He was around 29 and I was around 47, I guess, when we first met. We were both teachers at the same school and I was still married, but, coming to terms with the fact that my marriage was over. We discovered we loved so many of the same things. We are both hyperactive beings. He was the only man I have ever known who could keep up with me. He was pursuing a young, very pretty teacher (she was a stand-in for some popular teen movie star) at the school at the time. She knew I was his best friend and they would both come to me to talk about their strategy with each other. Since I was his friend and nothing more, I clued her in on how to handle him, and tried to teach him how to coimmunicate with a woman. (He was a virgin). Neither of them followed my directions! It turned out she was into using drugs and he is a pretty conservative guy. Doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, doesn't cuss. They went out to dinner just once. When he tried to get romantic, she bolted. Anyway, a couple of years after that, I was free from my marriage, I was almost 50 at the time and he was almost 32, he started to touch me, like massaging my shoulders while we're standing in line waiting todo something, conversations began to get more provacative, he found reasons to put his arms around me to supposedly help me learn how to do things. It was more than I could resist. Suddenly, while we were at the Griffith Park Observatory one evening, while looking at the city lights, I just put my arms around him and kissed him. He returned the favor and wouldn't let go. We were team teachers and our classrooms were next to each other. We had already spent several years collaborating on lessons and having dinner together. I'll never forget when we decided to become a couple, he said, "This feels so comfortable, so familiar--being with my best friend."

[QUOTEKittylane]men are NOT unemotional beings, its not easy for them to walk away either.
something under the radar was going on.

Yeah, I agree. I think he was wanting to get out of the relationship, and I handed it to him.

because you kept it casual for so long, he may not have felt the committment and responsibility that went along with a relationship.
let a guy off the hook and many guys will take that option.


Again, I think you're right. But, I'm also thinking that neither of us really wanted that kind of committment, so, I'm thinking the whole thing was doomed from the start. After he accepted that I didn't want to marry, a marriage that I think would never have even lasted this long, he then embraced the independent life style that we both wanted. To the point that I think had I changed my mind and wanted to live together or marry, he would have bolted. Fear of commitment and responsibility is part of his immaturity.

some do need their feet held to the fire and they need to reigned in a bit. if they truly love you a lighting bolt will go off in their heads and they will GET it, they can have "AH HA" moments.

I wonder if he can have an "AH HA" moment? I've known for a long time that he tends to be superficial and runs away from having to think long and hard and deeply about troubling issues.

being completely upset is not being manipulative. you dont have to live up to his expectations of your feelings and emotions.

Thank you, you made me laugh because without knowing me you seem to know me.

i think you need to mourn but i think a bit of an outburst if even on only this site is called for.

Yes, everyone's support is without a doubt helping me bear up and the freedom to vent is ever so therapeutic (couldn't quite find the right word).

in every relationship we learn more about our selves, we learn what we do want and dont want and hopefully along the way we learn its ok to ask for certain things and EXPECT them.

Wow! how much do you charge per hour? You are reading my mind. You know, it wouldn't surprise me all that much if after a year or so he came back and wanted to resume our relationship. He's told me he knows he will never find another woman who understands him as well as I do (remember we were best friends before we got together). If he did that, I think (and this scares the hell out of me) that I would tell him, "this time, we have to make a real commitment and live together." But, he would have to do a lot of "growing up" before I would be willing to do that.

the way he told you, seems like he felt that was ok, no deep heart to heart is what i feel is sorely missed here.

I tried to have a heart-to-heart several times, even last night when he was telling me this after dinner. He started to get a headache and wanted to go home.

intimacy is just not sex, sex is the outcome of intimacy, a man committs also with his heart and mind and that has to be as explored as physical sex.

Yes, and I realize that at about the same time I started to feel the lack of intimacy I also felt that the sex was just physical and no longer two souls connecting.

i am not sure where he felt like he was off the hook but 11 years does deserve some very deep connecting and HONEST explanation.

You would think!

For your own preservation, you need to really cut ties with him completely (who gives a rat's *** how he feels right now!) You need to mourn this, focus completely on yourself and on healing, and move on. Again, no easy task, but trying to be friends with him will make it impossible. Someday down the line it might be possible, but definitely not right now. Don't answer the phone, don't answer the door, don't return e-mails. Tell him you need some space right now and he needs to respect that. Don't call him under any circumstances. Don't call him to fix your car, or do some repairs.

Yes, I plan to do that. I think, though, that I should go get my stuff out of his garage. I already told him that I need some time to heal and that being "just friends" wasn't possible just now.

From what I've read of you, you're in very good shape and like doing lots of activities. There are lots of men out there who are seeking a woman just like you, and they DO want a relationship of substance. After this "luke warm" relationship with Rob, I think it's time you opened yourself up to the world and allowed yourself to meet a man who sweeps you off your feet and ADORES YOU BACK! The street has to run both ways, or you end up feeling neglected, hurt, and lonely. Been there.

You know, at one time Robb claimed to "adore me." I should have ended it when I sensed that the adoration was gone. But, then, I've never been adored by anyone before so I didn't really expect it.

You have a lot of years left to live and be happy and be loved. I think you're ready for something more meaningful and substantial.

In two or three years after I'm retired--what is meant to be will be.

[QUOTESheila4pd]]Flyer, I am sorry about how you must be feeling now. As I was reading your post, where you say you did not fight, I thought, some relationships are broken due to too many fights, this one sounded perfect, lots of activities together, harmony. How could he be so selfish and/or blind and stay in a relationship for 11 years without the level of commited love that he was receiving and just sit there and make you waste your time. This makes me mad.

My exact thoughts. Even he admits he's selfish, that's one of the reasons he doesn't want any relationship. I am definitely getting madder--this is very uncharacteristic of me, I rarely get angry. Getting angry is a characteristic of not living in the "now" and I try my best to live for today. But, I think, just this once, I will allow myself to feel the anger on his persistence on being an immature, superficial asshole and giving away the best thing that ever happened to him. :mad:

[QUOTE=bubbleee]Kittylane is DEAD ON THE MONEY. Something under the radar was happening...and what she said about sex and intimacy is right on the money, too.
Wait for the other shoe to drop...it's gonna.
I'm sorry, dear Flyer. He has some serious explaining to do!

I'm hiring Kittylane as my therapist. He's already explained, (It got old! He doesn't want to give up any time or energy to anyone else except himself). Translation-- he's a superficial, emotionally challenged and selfish middle-aged man who is going to end up alone one day and come running to me to pick up the pieces. Can you tell I'm getting madder by the minute? Re the other shoe-- let it drop!!! Hopefully, she's a lot smarter than I was and won't hand him 11+ years of her life to someone who is incapable of a real commitment. I realize now, he's no prize!

[QUOTE=Peachy] I think it's the differences between the two people and the discussions about those differences and the compromises that we make that helps a relationship grow.

Yes, and I'm realizing now that perhaps that's why two people who supposedly love each other should live together, because not many issues evolve when there is no daily give and take, compromises to be made, the problems of daily life to be solved. See, this is where I am at fault, too. I didn't want that. Perhaps I'm also not ready to be in a relationship as a life partner. It's just that for 30 years I tried to be a good wife and do all those things with my husband whom I did love and I failed miserably there, too.

Perhaps your guy felt the relationship was not growing and had become stale . . . in his words "old." It does take a certain amount of effort to keep a relationship going, but that effort has to come from both sides. It sounds like you were stoking the fire, but he decided that was too much "trouble."

You know, when our relationship was fresh, he did communicate. We could talk about anything, that's how we became best friends. It's just been in the past 2 or 3 years that he's become closed and distant.

For what it's worth, I suspect he will regret it one day.

Oh, I know he will! Assuming he actually grows up!

thank you for not being upset with me for speaking into your situation.

i do have a bit of a protective edge to my personality and also part of my personality is woman who has been torn up by past relationships, you can become an expert from living thru these moments.

for now, vent, take an opportunity to see where the communication was misconstrued or broke down and be responsible for your part and dont let him off the hook for his part.

i wish i had you athletic abilities, i am trying though, i have my asthma under control from excercise!!!

we are here for you.

Flyer, I just wanted to say I'm sorry and thinking about you as you go through this. I've always admired you two, so it was a bit of a shock to hear about the breakup. For some reason, I thought you lived together, but that's beside the point.

From reading this thread, Robb sounds much like my ex, and we broke up because he wasn't/couldn't give me the attention and the level of committment I wanted...also into his toys and quite self-centred. He'd been a bachelor his whole life and enjoyed his freedom etc. It wasn't until after the breakup really sank in that he realized how important I was to him, and by then it was too late.

Anyhow, I don't know if that's much consolation, but he is making a mistake, as I bet he will recognize at some point. Regardless though, you are worth so much more than he can give you and it's a GOOD thing that this happened, freeing you to move on to better things. Sometimes it's easy to get stuck in a relationship that's not what we really need or want, simply because it's familiar. I know it probably doesn't feel like that right now, but just hang in there...;)

Anyhow, I don't know if that's much consolation, but he is making a mistake, as I bet he will recognize at some point. Regardless though, you are worth so much more than he can give you and it's a GOOD thing that this happened, freeing you to move on to better things. Sometimes it's easy to get stuck in a relationship that's not what we really need or want, simply because it's familiar. I know it probably doesn't feel like that right now, but just hang in there...;)
Thank you for your support. Yes, I agree, I think he's already giving it a lot of thought. But, he's crossed a bridge that he can't cross over again. If he wants me back, he's going to have to build a new bridge, one with a lot more commitment.