Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy

Does anyone here have experience with Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy for the treatment of depression?

At the end of my last therapy session, my therapist said she wants to try working with me using MBCT instead of prescribing antidepressants. I'm very willing to go in a non-med direction, but I know nothing about MBCT.

Can anyone here enlighten me with their own experiences?

Hmmm... no replies yet. How depressing! :(

Naw, jk :p

But darn it anyway. And it's two more weeks until my next therapist appointment.

So in the meantime... I'm trying some other forms of therapy:

Baking Therapy ~ I'd forgotten how much fun it is to bake, flinging flour around the kitchen and stirring up a nice batter. Yesterday I tried my hand at baking madeleines for the first time EVER. Wow, that was wonderful. Scented with lemon zest, and my kitchen smelled sooo delicious! They came out beautifully!...light and fluffy. I took half the batch to my neighbor downstairs and she was gratifyingly delighted... "Oh madeleines!!" and gave me a big hug. :)

Movie Therapy ~ I've been going to the movies every other day or so... double bills if possible. However, no comedies allowed... they just ring hollow for me these days. Ironically, the serious dramas make me feel better... where the characters have truly horrible problems to contend with. I can highly recommend all of the following: Pan's Labyrinth, The Queen, The Painted Veil, Little Children, and Babel. Later today I'm going to see The Departed and Venus.

Walking Therapy ~ This is always good, needless to say. I'm within 5 minutes to the Presidio... beautiful woods and meadows. Or 10 minutes in the other direction to the beach and the bay.

AL Thread Therapy ~ Just blathering to myself on this thread, but it feels good anyway. But hey y'all, if anybody else wants to join in, please feel free. Anybody got some of your own alternate therapies to recommend...?

I'll check back later. For now, it's time for Walk Therapy, to be followed by Movie Therapy.

xo Faith

Oops, I almost forgot...

No Contact Therapy ~ It's been two weeks of no contact now. Even though I've had a few sad moments and even some urges to email him... overall the healing effect of no contact has been doing me lots of good. Mostly it's a feeling of HUGE RELIEF to wake up and know there'll be no morning email from him.... so I don't have to read any message from him and wonder "What does he mean by THAT???".... and I don't have to try to figure out what to say in reply. And even if he does contact me (which he probably won't), I don't have to answer at all. Whew.

So now, onward to that walk and then the movies... :)

Those sound like great therapies! I've done retail therapy (shopping) when I've been down myself.

As for the cognitive-behavioural therapy, I have looked into it myself and have actually gone to a session to deal with some issues. The thing about it is they make you understand that how you feel in reaction to something is under your own control. That's not the entire basis for it but that's part of it.

In my own personal experience, I found that it felt too much like I was being blamed for stuff. Like, "You feel badly because she said this, but you made yourself feel bad" or whatever. So it depends, for me, where I am, emotionally... at the time I went to this session I felt a little too raw for it, if that makes any sense. Like I was in a place where I needed more sympathy than what felt like blame, at the time. But in other times in my life, it would have been quite effective and empowering.

It sounds like Buddhist based therapy. I read several wonderful authors, Eknath Eswaran and Thich Nat Hahn, also Ram Dass, and they mention this as well.:)

No knowledge about it here, they just medicate me as much as possible :D

Faith, I laughed when I read "Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy." It's SO California...

Historically, there is CBT.....or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It's short term therapy to problem solve an issue, and it's probably the most popular therapy today because it IS short-term, which insurance companies like.

Basically, it is just REFRAMING the picture, to see things in a light that you might not have though of previously....and by doing so, it helps you cope with the situation. It's basically "change your thinking, change your life."

It works for some problems. Personally, I never felt like it delved deeply enough for me. I have been in therapy for over two years now doing talk and EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization Reprogramming.) My therapist is science based, but is also open to spirituality if I bring it up.

I had a lot of emotional trauma as a child due to an alcoholic father and a depressed, narcissistic mother. These issues seem to haunt me the older I get. She is an amazingly compassionate therapist, and has helped me a lot.

Mindfulness Based Cognitive therapy sounds like some variation on CBT to make it sound more palitable to Californians, but I'm guessing it's CBT at it's core.

If it's any consolation, I'm still suffering too, mainly on the weekends. I feel he is still thinking about me, keeping me connected to him. That probably sounds insane, but I feel it to be true. I think there are things more powerful than what we can see. I hope he psychically releases me soon. I need to move forward in a bad way. My body says yes, my mind says yes, but my soul says "this was a deep connection."

I patiently await total release.

Well, my "last two" continue to contact me. (I dont answer)

I really swear theyre either trying to make me go insane, or just make sure i'll somehow still be thinking of them. They are both already insane, if you ask me.

Faith, I laughed when I read "Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy." It's SO California...

Well my dear, laugh again. It's actually SO Massachusetts... at least from what I've read on the internet...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness-based_Cognitive_Therapy

...it is indeed an offspring of CBT, but combined with the techniques of mindfulness as developed by Jon Kabat-Zinn at the University of Massachusetts Medical Center.

Other than that I don't know nuttin'... still breathlessly awaiting my therapist's introduction to MBCT in a couple of weeks.

And yeah, I'm still attached to him and I wish he would contact me. There, I admit it. So shoot me.

Faith,

Thanks for the link...that was VERY interesting for me (I'm ready to graduate in Human Development.)

I don't think you should beat yourself up at all for wishing to hear from him. That seems like a normal desire. It's not right or wrong to have that desire.

But if he did, you'd have to start back from square one. That's the problem.

I know one day P will contact me again. It may be a year from now; it may be five years from now. But he will be calling me. I have confidence in myself to either a) ignore the call, or b) handle it with grace....whichever feels right at the time.

Those sound like great therapies! I've done retail therapy (shopping) when I've been down myself.

As for the cognitive-behavioural therapy, I have looked into it myself and have actually gone to a session to deal with some issues. The thing about it is they make you understand that how you feel in reaction to something is under your own control. That's not the entire basis for it but that's part of it.

In my own personal experience, I found that it felt too much like I was being blamed for stuff. Like, "You feel badly because she said this, but you made yourself feel bad" or whatever. So it depends, for me, where I am, emotionally... at the time I went to this session I felt a little too raw for it, if that makes any sense. Like I was in a place where I needed more sympathy than what felt like blame, at the time. But in other times in my life, it would have been quite effective and empowering.

Hmm.. putting it that way, I guess I have had experience with it, but it wasn't called that, nor was it through a therapist's guidance. It seems that it is not necessarily blaming you for the outcome of stress in your life, but that you can control SOME things, and then... every little bit helps.

It sounds like it may be the same as when someone tries to change their perception, or viewpoint of the world around them. I can do this simply by trying to find the good that could come from an unhappy situation (even if the good is going to come upon another person than myself). I try to look at things in a big picture sort of a way, too. In other words, try to remember that good things coming may be coming later, rather than sooner, but they will come eventually. (I base this on a lot of personal experience that life does just that.)

It doesn't put the blame on me that I'm sick or distraught, but it's a tool to help me calm down, to persevere, etc. I truly believe also that our aggitated emotions are all hooked up to the 300 or so hormones we have in our bodies, and when they get revved up, we can throw our whole immune system out of whack, which then causes all kinds of problems. So keeping calm - by whatever means - is a good thing. If you know one thing (like shopping, or watching DVDs, or whatever) is going to calm you down... keep using that tool until the time passes and your body and mind are healed from the trauma.

Did you know that there have been scientific studies done on the chemical composition of our tears? It's been discovered that tears we cry from sadness are actually composed of a substance that cleanses the body. Tears we cry from joy or laughter are a different chemical composition and are healing to the body.

I hope that I won't ever have to go on anti-depressants myself. I have seen them further mess up a person so badly (tens of thousands of people). So if I'm sad enough that I'm crying, or even if I can't cry, I want to find something that will CAUSE me to shed the tears. Then I can cleanse my body. I think it's a nice little feature that God created us with to help regulated things. (My mom and I used to refer to wanting to have "a good cry" - I can remember every time I've had a good cry, I've felt so much better afterward). But then you gotta throw in some laughter and joy somehow, too. That should be important in the process.

It sounds like Buddhist based therapy. I read several wonderful authors, Eknath Eswaran and Thich Nat Hahn, also Ram Dass, and they mention this as well.:)

I'm betting we can find this in all the great religious teachings. I know it's in Islam anyway.

I have been in therapy for over two years now doing talk and EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization Reprogramming.) My therapist is science based, but is also open to spirituality if I bring it up.

I had someone do that for me, too (in connection with the murder of my brother). It's amazing the way it works (and how fast it can work). I have had experience working with a quadraplegic woman in bringing her back to an almost fully functioning, independent person after doing a process called "patterning" (repatterning the nerve signals in the brain). So I had immediately thought of this when the EMDR was suggested to me.

Perhaps that's the same kind of thing that is happening when we're reprogramming, or "taking a different perspective" of things. We're setting up new patterns in the brain.

Spirituality - or the sense of it - is also something that takes place in a specific part of the brain, so it's conceivable that changing your thinking patterns towards the spiritual side is also repatterning the brain, no?

(Can you tell I'm fascinated by this topic? If I had the money, I'd go back to school and become a neuropsychologist!)

I'm going to school right now with a woman who is going to get her masters in neuropsychology. She has an autistic child and is fascinated with the whole subject.

My therapist talked to me recently about a major player in therapy (whose name escapes me at the moment) who said our bodies need a good belly shaking SOBBING cry on a routine basis to remain healthy. Interesting, eh?

I was sobbing last week on two occasions, awaiting the arrival of my dog, and I couldn't really say why. It was odd.

The therapy does have the "BF Skinner" behavior modification in it. It also gets you in touch with your body. After you are in touch with your body sensations it can include what is called "extinction" of the negative thoughts.

Remember my rubber band trick. While it sounds silly it really really works! For those that have missed it:

If you are dealing with obsessive thoughts that are causing you distress;
Put a rubber band on your wrist.
Each time that the thought comes up, immediately snap the rubber band enough to cause a little sting.
At FIRST the thoughts will INCREASE.
But then almost suddenly, they go almost entirely away. :)

So after grieving a few weeks and writing in my journal, and crying, I do this if I think I am still too emotionally entangled.

I have seen them further mess up a person so badly (tens of thousands of people). They have also helped MILLIONS of people. If one has a physical depletion of seratonin that is longstanding, all the therapy in the world will not help.

I do agree that there are people who are on too much. Studies have shown that the best outcome for depression is therapy, plus medication (for 6 months). Being on antidepressant is just like taking insulin when your body does not manufacture it. AND just like insulin, one should be very careful that they are under a GOOD doctors care. :)

just a moment of interjection:

I was sobbing last week on two occasions, awaiting the arrival of my dog, and I couldn't really say why. It was odd.

Maybe, kat...it was because you knew your sweet doggie was going to provide unconditional love and adoring companionship for you. I remember when K left, I would get home from work, gather up my puppy, and sob knowing that HE would listen and care and love me no matter what.

God created dogs to provide what humans can't in our lives, I believe...complete, total trust, belief in us as a good person, and unconditional love and forgiveness when we mess up.

I'm sorry that I don't have anything to add about this therapy, Faith, but I'm interested to hear your experiences with it once you start. Post about it here is you feel comfortable, ok?? OF COURSE you wish he'd contact you, honey....you loved this man with your entire being. But, like kat said...if you pick up that phone or reply to that email he sends (which he probably will one day), the set-back to emotional-devastation-square-one will not be worth it. It is so good to hear that you are doing better, and I completely understand that sense of relief you talk about not having to deal with a decision to respond or not.

Hang on, you're almost there!
Hugs,
K

I went to the Wikipedia site and this is the first thing I read:

"Cognitive therapy aims to identify and alter cognitive distortions (warped or inaccurate thoughts);
Mindfulness is a meditative practice from Buddhism, which aims to help people identify their thoughts, moment by moment, but without passing judgement on the thoughts."

Hmmmmm, seems a bit difficult to identify warped or inaccurate thoughts without passing judgment! :p

Sorry.

Faith, I think your "therapies" are excellent! It sounds like you are taking care of yourself the same way you would take care of anyone you love who was in the same situation. Hope the MBCT helps, too.

oh god, i just got a big lecture from my therapist last night about passing judgement........on myself. she said that now that i don't have P in my life to judge me and emotionally abuse me, i'm doing it to myself. arrrgggghhh.

okay, so i was having a bad night last night, but i disagree. i mean, i don't entirely agree.

the dog rocks special k. she feels like a solid addition to my life.