The word "friend" coming up in dating/relationship situations

Hello all!

I've always viewed being called a "friend" by a woman whom I'm dating as the kiss of death, and really get freaked out by the term. I picked up the idea from conversations with other guys who've been classified as "friends" by various romantic interests of theirs, and from at least one relationship book.

I know that on a deep level, any sustainable love relationship has to ultimately rest on friendship. Friendship is like the base of a pyramid on which love, sex, commitment and marriage rest.

I also know that romantic relationships sometimes start as friendships and build from there.

But, the meaning of "friend" as I've from time to time experienced it in dating situations and have heard other guys describe it, is not so positive. "You're a sweet friend" or "I like you as a friend" can be translated as "There's no chemistry" or "I'm just not that into you." That's why I panic at any use of the word "friend" in a dating situation I'm in, and why I start thinking "OK, how do I reverse this and keep from being put onto the friend shelf along with the teddy bears?" Being a good listener and supportive is one of the duties, hopefully a most joyful one, of being in a relationship, but I don't want to be a warm shoulder for a woman to lean on if, when it comes to be "date" or "romance" or "sex" time, she goes off with some other guy, leaving me with my crossword puzzle.

This past Sunday I had a truly wonderful first date with a woman whom I know through a club to which I belong. All went wonderfully and we spent nearly 8 hours together. We parted with a kiss and she sent me home with words to the effect of "you can go home floating on clouds." Last night I left a voicemail for her (I later learned she was already asleep) telling her that our day and evening together was the best first date I'd ever had.

This morning she e-mailed me. She wrote "I had a wonderful first date with you. I don't think I've ever been on such a nice, classy date. . . Thank you very much for a date I will remember forever." Though I'm trying to keep my heart in check, I am deeply fond of this woman, and I hope we wind up together.

That was why her closing line hit me like a sledgehammer to the chest. She signed off "Your friend, ____" My heart and spirit sank.

After our meeting this evening I had a brief window of privacy to talk with her. I told her that I felt confused by her message, and asked what her intentions were. She said to think nothing of the word; that she thinks of everyone in our club as a friend, and that it doesn't mean that she doesn't want to see me again.

So, I guess I overreact to "friend" at least some of the time. What I'm interested in perhaps learning is what kinds of experiences others have had in handling the word "friend" arising in a dating situation. Are there times in which the word is simply innocuous? If a situation is headed down the "friendship" path rather than the "romantic" path, are there ways to reverse course?

Dave !
Absolutely do not look at her use of the word at the end of her email as doom!
The fact that she went on and on about how excellent your date was, that she kissed you at the end of it, and the she confirmed that "friend" was just a term she uses for everyone in your group shows that she has great interest in you!

When Jake first called me (after meeting briefly on two previous occassions) he told me that he wanted to have me in his life and that "friends was fine with him if that was what I felt comfortable with..."

I hastily replied, "Being friends is fine with me...I'm alway open to having more friends!" It sounded to him like I had drawn my line at friendship/wasn't interested beyond that. The fact was, I was definitely intrigued by this assertive young man... I was flattered...I was even curiously attracted...but I was also scared. I wasn't sure of his intentions, he seemed VERY sure of what he wanted, he was unlike any other guy I'd ever been with, and he was YOUNG. I had also just recovered from huge heartbreak and was leary of anything relationship-wise. "Friends" felt safe to me at that point...and I knew that going slow in any relationship was best to build a good foundation anyway, so why not start there?

Needless to say, it didn't take more than a few weeks for "friend" status to morph into a lot more. But, I'm so glad he never pushed me past where I felt comfortable at the time...that made me love him even more!:D

She sounds like a great lady, Dave...I wish you the best with her...it sounds great so far:yay:

I don't know about the use of friend in english, but if I called someone 'vennen min' (my friend in a snuggly way) in Norwegian I would definitly mean more than just friends...:yes:
I did say that to Joel once before we got married and he freaked out and told me never to do that again...which I'm a bit sad about cause I love the term 'vennen min'....:yes:

hey sweetie!!!! :bighug:

you know, i have used that word in the beginning of a relationship, because i wanted to appear to be a little more aloof than i actually was...so that i didn't scare him off with: "I CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT YOU AND I NEED YOU RIGHT NOW!!!!" :D

how could she not be into you? sheesh!!! ;)
i think there's a very high possibility she was just taking it slow/playing it cool.
keep us posted!!!!

Thank you all for the words of encouragement--I'm feeling better this morning. I guess like so many other words, "friend" just comes down to context. There have been times in the past where I've started dating women, they called me "friend" at some point along the line, and they stopped wanting to date. Those experiences, combined with what other guys said, just instilled in me a visceral, negative reaction to being called "friend." But I guess like so many things in human relations, there's a lot of context and nuance.

All I can think to say is "Dump the *****". :EvilLaugh:

Obviously, I am just too jealous to make an objective observation. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_5.gif




LADave's response to me: :dummy!:

Everyone else's response to this post: :backontopic:

:giggle:

The word "friend's" meaning, would depend on the kiss. Know what I mean Vern? :bgrin2:

After our meeting this evening I had a brief window of privacy to talk with her. I told her that I felt confused by her message, and asked what her intentions were. She said to think nothing of the word; that she thinks of everyone in our club as a friend, and that it doesn't mean that she doesn't want to see me again.

Well, she cleared it up. I would presume she is not a very young woman, and I would certainly take her words at face value. Isn't that what guys tell us women to do all the time??? :)

Be your natural self and I think everything will be great!

Chatter...you are having WAY too much fun with the new emoticons:monkeydance:

Sorry, just kidding..your post made me smile....AND I just had to see what that little monkey did in action:no:

emoticon-annonymous, anyone?!?

back to topic...

After our meeting this evening I had a brief window of privacy to talk with her. I told her that I felt confused by her message, and asked what her intentions were. She said to think nothing of the word; that she thinks of everyone in our club as a friend, and that it doesn't mean that she doesn't want to see me again.

So, I guess I overreact to "friend" at least some of the time. What I'm interested in perhaps learning is what kinds of experiences others have had in handling the word "friend" arising in a dating situation. Are there times in which the word is simply innocuous? If a situation is headed down the "friendship" path rather than the "romantic" path, are there ways to reverse course?

My feeling is that it's best to steer clear of "labels" too early on in a relationship because while some may feel it may clarify a situation...I think it does more to pidgeon-hole "roles" before people even know what they want or what they are feeling about someone.

Don't ask a new potential love "interest" to give you answers before there are even any questions. And also everyone is a little different in how they like to approach a relationship. Some people like to take time and ease into things. I'm one of those people so I don't think I'd like it if a guy was questioning every "term" I used in an email or verbally and asking me to explain implied meanings after the first date. I'm not criticizing, you, or attacking you, don't get me wrong...just giving you my point of view.

I wouldn't worry about her use of the word "friend". I think behavior, being sensitive to a person's vibes and attitude toward you is a better indication of how they view you than words. If you like her, then show her that you'd like to get to know her better and go from there.:)

I don't know how you feel, but I think people are way too impatient these days with all this "just not into you" talk....like you have to be willing to climb Everest for someone after a couple of weeks of meeting someone for something deep and genuine to develop. Relax, give it time, and let things develop naturally.;)

your own prejudice of the word "friend" blew the context of everything else she was saying to you.

one of the tenderest moments i recall in my relationship with my YM was the moment we declared we were "best friends" and that was quite a ways into the relationship....it was like saying "hey, you're more than a lover, you're more than a romantic partner to me....you're a real, true, honest to goodness friend to me." to me, it seemed to step it up to a higher level.

maybe i'm weird! :giggle:

Some people like to take time and ease into things. I'm one of those people so I don't think I'd like it if a guy was questioning every "term" I used in an email or verbally and asking me to explain implied meanings after the first date.

Thanks for the insight! I know that my weakness in dating is that I develop strong feelings rapidly. My heart controls, as much as my thought process says "play it cool." I like this new woman very, very much, and that led me to read too much into that "friend." I guess that the next time I call her and on Date #2, assuming it happens, my job is to make the extra effort to play it cool, and give her a little extra space as she gets to know me better.

Look, don't over analyze this. At this juncture what you really are, are friends, albeit with a lot of potential. Your post was interesting and I don't doubt that there are a lot of different connotations to the word "friend", but in this case I don't read her use of the word to be anything negative. So, relax and enjoy the fact that she thought it was an awesome first date!

:D

Hello all!

I've always viewed being called a "friend" by a woman whom I'm dating as the kiss of death, and really get freaked out by the term. I picked up the idea from conversations with other guys who've been classified as "friends" by various romantic interests of theirs, and from at least one relationship book.

I know that on a deep level, any sustainable love relationship has to ultimately rest on friendship. Friendship is like the base of a pyramid on which love, sex, commitment and marriage rest.

I also know that romantic relationships sometimes start as friendships and build from there.

But, the meaning of "friend" as I've from time to time experienced it in dating situations and have heard other guys describe it, is not so positive. "You're a sweet friend" or "I like you as a friend" can be translated as "There's no chemistry" or "I'm just not that into you." That's why I panic at any use of the word "friend" in a dating situation I'm in, and why I start thinking "OK, how do I reverse this and keep from being put onto the friend shelf along with the teddy bears?" Being a good listener and supportive is one of the duties, hopefully a most joyful one, of being in a relationship, but I don't want to be a warm shoulder for a woman to lean on if, when it comes to be "date" or "romance" or "sex" time, she goes off with some other guy, leaving me with my crossword puzzle.

This past Sunday I had a truly wonderful first date with a woman whom I know through a club to which I belong. All went wonderfully and we spent nearly 8 hours together. We parted with a kiss and she sent me home with words to the effect of "you can go home floating on clouds." Last night I left a voicemail for her (I later learned she was already asleep) telling her that our day and evening together was the best first date I'd ever had.

This morning she e-mailed me. She wrote "I had a wonderful first date with you. I don't think I've ever been on such a nice, classy date. . . Thank you very much for a date I will remember forever." Though I'm trying to keep my heart in check, I am deeply fond of this woman, and I hope we wind up together.

That was why her closing line hit me like a sledgehammer to the chest. She signed off "Your friend, ____" My heart and spirit sank.

After our meeting this evening I had a brief window of privacy to talk with her. I told her that I felt confused by her message, and asked what her intentions were. She said to think nothing of the word; that she thinks of everyone in our club as a friend, and that it doesn't mean that she doesn't want to see me again.

So, I guess I overreact to "friend" at least some of the time. What I'm interested in perhaps learning is what kinds of experiences others have had in handling the word "friend" arising in a dating situation. Are there times in which the word is simply innocuous? If a situation is headed down the "friendship" path rather than the "romantic" path, are there ways to reverse course?


Take a chill pill, or a deep breath, it's just a way of ending a letter, and you wouldn't think she would sign it "Your Future Wife" do you?

Ali

Being a friend doesn't necessarily imply being interested in a long-term relationship, but it certainly doesn't EXCLUDE it, either. In fact, I think that being friends (but not JUST friends) is probably the best basis for a LONG-TERM relationship.

If a woman told me, "Let's just be friends," that would indeed tell me that she wasn't interested in anything else, but the key word there is "just," not "friends." My wife and I were friends before we began dating, and after 30 years of marriage, we still tell each other that we're each other's best friend.

I think your conversation with her should remove any doubt -- she's interested in being your friend, but also, at least potentially, more than that. I think the "Your friend" line means no more than that, at this point, it's the best single word to describe your relationship. After one date, she certainly wouldn't describe herself as your girlfriend, and you're certainly not lovers yet. What you are is friends who seem to both be interested in perhaps taking the relationship to another level, but who aren't at that other level yet.

You know, I have been thinking about the word "friend" and I was reminded that my mother says I SHOULD refer to my YM as my "friend". I had commented to her that I think "boyfriend" at my age sounds awkward and frivolous, too teenagery. She said that since he really isn't a boyfriend (huh?) I should just refer to him as a "friend." Now I use the word "friend" with a long drawn out inflection that says he is so much more and I know it drives her crazy. The point is, the word can mean what you want it to!

Take a chill pill, or a deep breath, it's just a way of ending a letter, and you wouldn't think she would sign it "Your Future Wife" do you?

*Reaches for the Bombay Sapphire and tonic*

I've definitely learned my lesson on this one.:o :)

My x bf constantly introduced me as "his friend Lisa" it killed me! To me it was clearly stating that i was a "friend" not a "girl friend". I let it go for several months assuming it was just his way. Finally after 10 months of dating & on a vacation in Florida I lost it. We had been approached by a group of people who were admiring us. They told us we were a very attractive couple & looked so happy together. My bf turned & introduced himself & then again introduced me as his "friend". Well I tried to make light of it & remarked "just in case you thought I was his sister"...they all laughed, but one very handsome man pulled me aside and said "are you or are you not a couple?" I said yes we are, but I quess after 10 months I haven't reached girl friend status yet. After several drinks I let the bf have it & we broke up for good a month later.


I think it's huge. When I am with a man other than my bf I always make a point of introducing him as my friend so he will NOT be mistaken as my bf. When I am with my bf I usually just introduce him as Nick. No title. Unless I'm worried someone might mistake him as my son & then I always say " this is my bf Nick".

Sounds like she's into you...don't worry too much right now. Good Luck!

Haha I am loving these smileys!

And I have always called my sweetie my best friend. It doesn't sound like she's blowing you off, actually the opposite. Her use of the word seems warm and affectionate. This is a good thing :yes: .

*Reaches for the Bombay Sapphire and tonic*

I've definitely learned my lesson on this one.:o :)

I laughed when I read LB's response, too. I thought the same thing, but was being a bit more diplomatic ;)

Pass the gin and tonic Davey boy, lol:cheers:

This morning, I got a second e-mail from her: "Again I wanted to thank you for such a great date. I thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish," signed just with her name. That was so sweet of her! I can't recall when I last got two thank you notes for ANYTHING!:)

Figuring that she might just want to go out again, I left her a voicemail this evening asking her out this coming weekend. We shall see what happens.:)

I'm so excited for you Dave!

It's too bad there aren't more words used for the subtleties of the word 'friend', like the Inuit words for snow. What does come through your description is that she has a good head on her shoulders, and is wanting to start something from a place of friendship, the best and most enduring place to start.

In this context though, I think it's important not so much to look at what she says, but rather her actions. She hung out with you for 8 hours, and I'm sure in that time you weren't the only one feeling chemistry. The good night kiss, the not one, but TWO thank you notes...

Oh yeah, babe, she's into you:)

But remember....allow room and time to "let" the relationship evolve naturally. It's good to have hopes and be enthusiastic about someone new...but too many expectations before you really start to know a person can be a stumbling block to an honest connection to build one meeting at a time, one day at a time.:)

It's too bad there aren't more words used for the subtleties of the word 'friend', like the Inuit words for snow.

I totally agree! "Friend" is a word laden with a lot of nuances, and that's what threw me off. Earl wh explained that the lethal term is "just friends" (which excludes an expanded relationship) as opposed to "friend" (which does not).

I think the Norwegians might be on to something. I like joelstrouble's term "vennen min." Although I don't know how it's used, beyond what she wrote, it sounds like a great term for someone one's begun dating and would like to see further. Hey, I'm one-quarter Norwegian by blood. Maybe I should have "vennen min" be the second term in my Norwegian vocabulary, next to "uff da.":D

What does come through your description is that she has a good head on her shoulders, and is wanting to start something from a place of friendship, the best and most enduring place to start .

Which is a good thing. I date with the hope of building relationships; hookups and flings have never been my cup of tea.

In this situation there is nothing to worry about :) I however have been know to use the horrid "friend" word if I don't feel anything with a man after a few dates hoping he takes the hint, and then explaining it if need be.

Enjoy your journey with her, hope its a marvelous and lasting one:yes:

I strongly agree with this:

My feeling is that it's best to steer clear of "labels" too early on in a relationship because while some may feel it may clarify a situation...I think it does more to pidgeon-hole "roles" before people even know what they want or what they are feeling about someone.

....Some people like to take time and ease into things. I'm one of those people so I don't think I'd like it if a guy was questioning every "term" I used in an email or verbally and asking me to explain implied meanings after the first date.....

......I don't know how you feel, but I think people are way too impatient these days with all this "just not into you" talk....like you have to be willing to climb Everest for someone after a couple of weeks of meeting someone for something deep and genuine to develop. Relax, give it time, and let things develop naturally.

And I very strongly agree with this:

you know, i have used that word in the beginning of a relationship, because i wanted to appear to be a little more aloof than i actually was...so that i didn't scare him off with: "I CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT YOU AND I NEED YOU RIGHT NOW!!!!" :rofl:

I'm laughing at this last one because I know that feeling all too well. I darn sure don't want to come out looking obsessed or anything (even though I might feel that way.... temporarily). So I keep myself calm and cool by using the word 'friend'.

I prefer to take my time to get to know an individual because I know the feeling of being rushed into a relationship. To me, it feels like someone is trying to fast-sell me and then I start wondering if the 'product' is defective. I want to be friends with that person before we advance to a romantic relationship, and make sure that this man is attractive to me mentally as well as physically and emotionally. I want to know that I will accept this man's flaws as well as his assets. A person tends to show his best self when he goes out on an initial date. Only by taking time to know him will I discover what he's really like, and if I will accept that person (and vice versa).

I got upset one evening when a man I had only met for the 2nd time started referring to me as his "woman". That wound up being our last date.

Why don't you concentrate on having a good time with this woman, enjoying the activities that the two of you like together, and let nature take its course? Worrying about whether or not this will be a LTR will only make you anxious, and that in turn will most likely make her uncomfortable with you. If it was meant to be, it will be.

Well, we went on our second date today! Everything went peachy keen. She's not sure if her life's stage is now right for an LTR, and she doesn't want to go exclusive, but she IS interested. So now I'm just going to take it easy, savor our time together and see what materializes.:)

Well, we went on our second date today! Everything went peachy keen. She's not sure if her life's stage is now right for an LTR, and she doesn't want to go exclusive, but she IS interested. So now I'm just going to take it easy, savor our time together and see what materializes.:)


Awesome! Just throw a little Norwegian her way and next thing you know you're cuddling right up to her! (love that saying too!) :bgrin2:

Good luck...have fun :D

She's not sure if her life's stage is now right for an LTR, and she doesn't want to go exclusive, but she IS interested.

This was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO me three years ago after my first or second date with Jake (I think you might remember that...didn't we talk on the phone about that way back then, Dave?)

Anyway...gettin married in June:w00t: guess my stage in life issue and resolve to not be exclusive disolved in the past three years. Why? Because Jake was patient, he never let me push him away for good, and he was consistently adoring and honest. You have all those qualities and then some, Dave. Just be your sweet, true self, walk toward a deep friendship, and see where it leads. My guess is that she won't be able to resist for too long:bgrin2:

This was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO me three years ago after my first or second date with Jake (I think you might remember that...didn't we talk on the phone about that way back then, Dave?)

Just this morning when I was having the day's first dose of Starbucks I was contemplating yesterday. You and Jake popped into my head as I thought "Hmm. . . I remember Karen sounding a bit like S did yesterday. She and Jake are getting married in June. I'm not going to sweat this--I think I'm going to come out a winner.":)

You and he had been dating for a while when we talked on the phone. What you were concerned about then is whether your interests would fit--i.e. could you bring him around to be more into the arts, particularly dance? We had earlier PM'd about my interest in the arts, and about my going to jazz night at the LA County Museum with a different woman.

Okay, so here I was dating S, the woman who led me to start this thread. On April 1, we went on our third date. We had a good time, but I left her thinking that "Something's missing from this picture." It just seemed like she was going awfully S-L-O-W-L-Y. I sensed ongoing reservation on her part, and the lack of that extra touch of enthusiasm and verve from her was starting to get on my nerves. I started thinking "S, get with the program!"

Fast forward to the evening of April 5, Holy Thursday. I showed up at my Episcopal parish for the day's rites. I ran into C. C is a woman whom I first saw at the church back in January, who caught my eye, and to whom I introduced myself. Then I didn't see her again until that Thursday evening. She was doing some church shopping and then got in the habit of attending the early Sunday service at our church, while I attend the later.

I lit up when I saw C, and told her I've missed her. Then SHE opened the door to romance. We were walking together, and she asked if her being taller than I (by several inches) bothers me (No.:) ) As we took our leave that evening, SHE asked ME for MY phone number, and she called the next morning.

I had carried a torch for C since meeting her in January, and her total enthusiasm and fondness for me won me over instantly! No saying "Let's take this slowly," no reservations, no hanging back, no frickin' bull****! What a refreshing change from S and numerous other women I've dated! We both think each other is the greatest person around, and are happiest with each other! On our second date, we agreed with almost no discussion to be exclusive.

Afterward I did the joyful job of changing out my "Flying Solo" keychain for the new one. I'm 37 and C is 60.

On the theme of "friend" C said on our first real date "You're my best friend" while hugging me tightly. "Friend" in that context was so loving! We are each other's best friend, as well as "dear," "sweetie" and so on.

Congrats!!! Hope everything goes great!:D

It is good advice to "play it cool" and don't over-analyze her words, but I also feel that you have to let her know that your intentions are of a passionate nature.

Oftentimes, guys play it cool and accept the "friend" role thinking they can parlay that into a romantic/sexual relationship. I think that is suicide.

I speak for only myself here, but after a first date, the guy will go into one of two places: friend pool, or dating pool. However, if he puts it down on the line and states clearly that he wants a romantic relationship and I am "not that into him", then I respond in-kind by not wasting his time.

Place those card on the table.

My thoughts, for what they're worth.

Wow Dave - it never rains but it pours.

I think making a romantic (or whatever) connection, however brief, can make us a bit shinier than usual and/or trigger the release of pheromones or something.

Whatever is going on, enjoy.

It's moot now of course, but I just wanted to add that:

1. Use of the word "friend" after a first date can be a signal that the person doesn't feel romantic or attracted towards you, but it depends on what else is said. In this case, I wouldn't read it that way.

2. Even when I have been interested in a relationship in my life, I would never, ever have said so to someone on a first or second date. It sounds like you're saying they are a candidate and how do you know if they are at this stage? I've always thought it better to appear reserved.

But none of that matters now.

Have fun.

Congratulations and here's wishing you have a long and lovely relationship!

:pianodance:

YAY, Dave !!! Go for it!!!
added note: I love the fact that you and C have nearly the same age dif as Jake and I (and many other women here). We always stress about "when I'm 60, and he's only 37, will he still find me attractive..blah blah blah". Well....It's obvious that YOU think C is the hottest woman on the planet:yes: , so I think we can feel more at ease about our guys at your age!

again...so great to hear, have a ton of fun:thumbsup_still: :w00t:

That's so wonderful! I'm really happy for you, Dave. :)

Dave!!! Dave!!!! Dave!!!!! I've been applying lotion to my round tummy everyday in anticipation, and what about the plane ticket - it was non-refundable!!!!!!!! :Thud:

KIDDING!!!

I'm happy for you! Your posts perfectly support my oft stated belief that when it's right, it flows.

Being adored is what you deserve!!! Enjoy! Enjoy! Enjoy!

To LA Dave
I'm glad for ya Bud ! and form your lady also so many times I do believe that our Higher Power whoever we choose that to be Has a hand in our lives and mostly in the strangest ( to us at least ) ways .
Again best of luck and I am glad that you found her again .
Ol Jer from Ohio

Congratulations!! enjoy