Probably no advice can help me, I just wanted to say this somewhere

Sparing details here to prevent people finding out identities, but it is mostly to protect my husband who is fiercely defensive about his online reputation. So much so I'm forbidden from posting on his favorite sites. I embarrass him terribly.

A few years ago we moved to another country, which was a dream of mine and he wanted to fulfill it back then, wanted to make me happy. He is the breadwinner. I have no job and no qualifications. I exist on a dependancy visa. A few years ago I was planning on getting a degree so I could live and work in this country, but we agreed that would just delay our moving there furthur.

We have always fought. Always. We do not have very compatible personalities. I always told myself that when you fall in love and end up staying with a person, you forgive them their faults, that if love turns stale then you are a coward to end it, because when somebody else comes along it will simply turn stale with them, too. He believes the same way. We are both terribly cynical people.

I convinced myself I was happy in this country. In fact, I was. I had everything I wanted in my life finally. But I still argued and fought with him.

He kept yelling at me, telling me that he had given me everything I wanted. Just so I would finally be happy, but that I was clearly not happy because I still argued with him.

Sometime last year he went back to our home country for a while. The bubble burst. He started to resent me terribly.

I have for the past 7 months heard in various iterations, the same phrases over and over.

That he doesn't love me any more.
He wants me to find somebody else. He in fact has DEMANDED this on many an occassion.
That I am a liar, I lie to him all the time (I am hopelessly bad at keeping even the worst of secrets to myself.)
I am a leech, a limpet. A worthless human being.
That I am a bad person, because I won't change for him, that he knows I am thinking "x" terrible thing (when really I am not thinking "x" at all. He misunderstands my thoughts completly).
That I have 6 months to change or he is leaving for good.
That he might have said he loved me yesterday, but he is taking it back today. He only said it to humor me, after all.
He resents me, and hates living here, that he wants to go back to his home. Despite this he loves the job he has here. His friends he wants to go back to have ALL moved on. I am confused as to why he says he hates it here.

Last year I met a guy on the internet who was wonderfully similar to myself. At first we spoke in a chatroom. Later we graduated to voice chat. I talk to him for hours on end, every single day. He completes my thoughts. He KNOWS my thuoghts. He is another version of myself, the person I wanted to meet all my life but was never there for me.

I convinced myself that this was the best friend I ever had in my life. I knew it was stupid to fall in love with him. It was hopelessly impossible. But the mantra I had been repeating to myself about forgiving another's faults and having the courage to live with them wasn't even true in his case. I couldn't find a single fault. He was too much like me. And while everyone in my life has hated and misunderstood me, I have never once thought I was a bad person. Just a terribly lonely one. Even though I was married.

I remember in November this guy told me he really hated university, and wanted to quit. Like back when I was his age, and I hated college, and quit it. I told him to take his Christmas break, and mull it over during that time.

I didn't hear another word about it for a long time. He stayed at university. I didn't know why until recently.

Last month I had a terrible argument with my husband. It was the "You are a leech and a limpet" one. I ran out of the house and only came back because sleeping on a bench outside in freezing conditions was going to kill me. I went straight online and poured my heart out to "my best friend in the world." I was crying bcause I felt trapped and I felt nobody would love me ever again in my life.

He told me he loved me.
He also told me he stayed at university to get a degree so he would have a hope of being with me.

I am a very immature person. I guess that is why I am now having an online affair with a 19 year old who is not from my country, nor the country I live in now. There isn't anything sensible about the situation, and I know that. But there isn't anything I can do to remedy it, because I yearn for this person more than anything I've wanted in my life, and I think I just destroyed my dream and any stability I had to achieve that.

I couldn't keep the lie to myself and I told my husband. And it has made the situation unbearable. I'm in a terrible amount of pain.

At first my husband said he was OK with it, and he gave me his blessing. NEXT DAY, he started to blame me, and call himself a victim, that I had broken our vow that you always stay with somebody despite their faults, and that I was a pathetic, cowardly person.
He also has had a friend on the internet, and yesterday he said "I would have left you for (her name) years ago if I was as pathetic as you."

THEN he started to turn around. Started to be nice to me. Begged me not to leave him.

This morning he reminded me I had 3 years to make up my mind. Because my younger man does not graduate for 3 years.

I feel terribly, terribly guilty for ruining my husband's life. But I'm also extremely confused.

I feel lost, like I have no definite future. And it's true. I screwed up horribly by not getting that degree. And trusting somebody to want to support me.

I feel lonely still, because I love a man who is very out of reach, for a very long time. I don't think the age gap even comes into it, but for this one detail.

What happened to telling me to find somebody else?
What happened to "You have 6 months to change or it's over" when now, after I do the worst thing imaginable to him he is saying "You have 3 years to make up your mind"?

What is going on?

The love of my life is coming to visit me in summer too, and my husband claims to be okay with this. "Because I have no choice."

I'm in terrible pain and I don't know what to do.

You seem articulate.

Get a job, any job. Do something by yourself, for yourself. If for no other reason, just to prove to yourself that you can.

Get some self worth by doing something, anything for yourself.
You are all caught up in the online thing because you have nothing else to occupy your time or mind.

Go back to your country of origin and get yourself rooted, settled. Quit running.

Don't stay in your present relationship if it is bad for you but don't blame him--seems to me you will have the same problems with anyone you happen to attach yourself to.

Ask yourself why you like or are willing to see yourself as a victim?

Disclaimer: this is a huge reply post...skip it if you want, but the OP's situation struck a chord with me and I just couldn't stop writing!
Ariadne,
It is SO obvious that you are emotionally bankrupt at this stage in your life. You have been depending on your hb to make you happy for too long. Another person can not make us happy, not even the YM you have met online...it is all an illusion, believe me.

When we as women are emotionally bankrupt, we search-out of lack- for a deposit of connection with someone else. A person appears in our life, and they are suddenly our "soul mate", "equal opposite", "the friend we never had". Of course they are....we, at our lowest point, have nothing to give; they seem to be the oasis we need. The problem with this scenario is that a relationship built on lack and need just breeds dependance on someone all over again, and the cycle is repeated:( . Infatuation with the idea of who a person is rather than who they genuinely are be can create the worst heartbreak.

There are women on the boards here who will tell you that they were in love with a ym they met online (but never in real life)...some found out that their ym was actually a con man and had lied about every detail of their lives for a year or more to them online (even with webcams, etc....some have proven to actually be married, or 39 instead of 19, etc.)...there are others who have finally met their online ym and it was a disaster/or moved in together and the ym changed his mind after a few weeks. I caution you not to put any hope in this online vym to rescue you emotionally or otherwise.

I speak from experience here, and don't condemn you. I KNOW the place where you are...I was there 10 years ago, exactly. Married but strangers, with a lying hb whom I no longer knew or loved. We had NO emotional or spiritual connection at all, and I became clinically depressed....went on antidepressants, the whole 9 yards. I stayed for the children, but I fell in love with an 18 year old ym I'd known for a while IRL because...HE LISTENED. I talked to him because initially he was safe: a friend, TOO YOUNG to ever consider affair-potential:rolleyes: , and he was kind. I certainly couldn't blow my cover (of having a perfect marriage, blah blah blah) and talk to my girlfriends, or family, or pastor....so I talked to my ym.

He cared. The depression began to lift after 5+ years on antidepressants, he -of course- was my soulmate, my reason for living, my rescuer, the only one who understood me. But soon, I realized I was falling in love with this ym...and it was scary. Like you, I couldn't lie to my hb and told him upfront that I thought I was in love with the ym (whom my hb also knew IRL). My hb agreed that we needed counseling or divorce at that point...we tried counseling, but it was all too far gone by then. Too much hurt, dishonesty for years from him, for trust to ever be rebuilt. Two more years went by before the separation/divorce was finally a reality...I loved my ym during that time as my only respit.

A week after the divorce was final, my exhb was engaged to someone else, remarried in 12 weeks. A year after, my ym (who was now almost 22) decided that he wasn't sure any more that he would be with me long term...he wanted time alone to grow up, find autonomy, experience other relationships as an adult, etc. I let him go, but there I was....alone, my family was shattered (and I was blamed for that by my exhb and others in my community he told for being an adultress with a teenager. My eldest son had the hardest time with it all), my self esteem was gone, and my best friend and emotional "savior" just walked out. Not a good place to be.

BUT....I learned so much from all of that, and I hope you will take the wisdom from me and the other ladies who will definitely be posting theirs as well.
1. YOU can only make you happy...if you continually seek happiness from
others, you will always come up short. After my life fiasco, I had
to re examine myself and my life...rediscover who I was and
reinvent parts that had been lost. I made a conscious choice to
be single and figure out my own life before ever being in a
relationship again. I didn't want to repeat the same co-dependent
behaviors EVER again. I wanted to be STRONG and sure on my
own: emotionally, spiritually, financially...and then perhaps enter
a future relationship out of abundance rather than need. When
two people clutch and grasp because they need each other to
fulfill something missing in their lives, the relationship will never
flourish. You must come from a place of fulfillment first, on your
own. Neediness in women may initially meet some primal desire
in men at first to be their "rescuer"...but ask any man; a needy
woman after a while becomes a burden. Your ym loves that you
need him now as your best friend/love...but that will not last
because your foundation is built on lack not abundance.

2. Your ym was brought into your life for a reason, but most likely not
the one you hope for right now. Time births perspective. Five years
after my divorce, and 4 since my exvym left, it is all clear now. My
exvym was in my life as a catalyst to make changes in myself and
my life situation...NOT to be my life partner. I wish I'd utlized the
friendship he brought and the way he made me feel valued to make
my own strides rather than cling to him as a love and savior. He
provided the wakeup call I needed that my marriage and emotional
state was not right any longer. I should have FIXED that first
(divorcing, seeking lots of personal counseling to get back on my
own feet emotionally, making changes in myself toward growth)
AND MAYBE THEN have a relationship with the ym or someone else.
I did it backwards, and it seems you are doing the same.

If I were your best friend I would counsel you to:
~ divorce...set the process in motion...it's obvious you two are toxic to
each other. Name calling, threats...there's no way to come
back from that with full trust. Others may suggest couples
counseling. At some point I think it's worse to beat a dead
horse.

~ Find your own autonomy...go back to school, finish your degree, live
on your own, don't talk yourself out of doing something because it will be hard because struggle ultimately makes you strong in the end.

~ move or stay where you are. Just be where you feel most potential for
personal growth.
~ Do NOT pursue a relationship/meet in person or whatever with this
ym until at least a year after your divorce is final and you are
solid in who you are in the world. Remember, a relationship can't
work if it is built out of lack in ourselves.

~ invest in yourself...not only your schooling, but also make good solid
female friendships, seek out mentors, learn a new hobby,
hug lots of children, get a new hairstyle/color, take long bubble
baths, sing, develop who you are spiritually, immerse yourself with beautiful/happy things (comedies, art, puppies, flowers, music). When you feel generally good about life and your accomplishments, your mind clears and your life direction becomes clear.

You sound so utterly sad and alone right now, but I want you to know that the decisions you make at this turning point in your life will have HUGE consequences (either good or bad). Take the high road and do what you need to do FOR YOU on your own. No one else can meet your needs/wants and desires...someone else can contribute to the overall joy of your life, but only after you are solid on your own.

As a footnote: I am now engaged to a wonderful, adoring, honest ym whom I met AFTER my personal transformation when I was emotionally healthy and ready/we dated nearly three years to make SURE we knew each other first rather than make lifetime decisions on the wings of infatuation...I've reconnected with my exym this past fall, and we are friends once again-comparing notes about that past era of our lives when we were together for the wrong reasons has also contributed to growth and greater understanding in us both...my exhb and I are cordial, and my sons are almost grown and have thankfully survived the divorce with great maturity. My eldest is in Africa right now, but wrote my fiance the sweetest email giving us his blessing with our marriage in June; he has come a long way, we all have. Things work out, they really do.

I wish you clear vision and peace along this part of your life's journey,
Karen

Adriane,
Sorry to hear you're having such a horrendous time. The thing is the only advice that can help you is to listen to the inner voice inside, and it is there when you really listen for it, that says you don't need validation from anyone to be whole. Only when you get to that point of loving yourself can you be free to love anyone and can accept love as well. Emotional abuse is a way of controlling people and when the one who has had the power thinks he/she's losing, then they sometimes change their ways, but usually only until they have the power again - it's not always like this, but often is. I really feel for you and hope you find some peace doing something you love in life. Hope this doesn't sound glib or platitiudes but really, when you realise your value, then others will too. And please don't say you are immature. You are unhappy and grabbing at happiness. I'm not condemning here - I've done the same, sure many people here have. It's human nature to gravitate towards what we think is happiness and security. The thing is though, when you label yourself like that, you put yourself down, negate the good and positive things about you, and I'm sure they're myriad. So please understand you need to do things for yourself, too feel emotionally strong and then be in a place where you can make some real decisions. Don't let anyone else make you a victim and don't make yourself one either.

Karen wrote a really phenomenal reply here. It’s just terrific. Read it over and over! :)

Your situation is less about an age gap relationship and more about where YOU are as a person right now.

Ariadne,
Sorry, this is long too ...
What Karen wrote is so true. Your post struck a chord with me too. I've been there with those phrases being shouted at me time & time again by my hsbnd. It is emotional blackmail, used to control and scare you, to force you into the role they want from you.They love the power.
For me this hit its worst when, like you, I wasn't working, had no car, no easy escape, at home with very small children and dependant on him. They know you can't escape easily so they enjoy the power and hurting you. ( I found out later that he was also in a long term affair with someone else, and I think that fuelled it - I was the mill stone that stopped him being with her, he kept telling me to go, giving me until Easter, until Christmas to change or he'd go, it would have been an easy option for him).
Emotional abuse is so hard, it eats at your insides, you can't tell anyone as you feel so ashamed of your own inability to stop it, you start to really believe those things they say are true and you are bad.
It takes a very long time to realise that you are the victim, that it is NOT all your fault, that you aren't really that bad/useless/waste of space person who has (so they say) ruined his life for so long. Once you accept that, then you can start to change things. It won't be easy.

I too got to the point when I could take no more, it took me years, but I went to a lawyer to start divorce proceedings. I was very very frightened, most of all of telling him and his reaction. I didn't tell him until I'd packed my few legal papers, savings book, had my child dressed ready to run if I had to. But, like your husband the reaction was not at all what I expected - he cried and begged on his knees for me to stay, said he'd change etc. I was so confused, and not at all sure it was true.
I stayed, we tried again,things got really quite polite and friendly for a while, but then the old ways started to come back, the phrases, the comments said with such hatered.
After a few more years I had the strength to know this was no good for me or the children. That I would never love or trust him enough to want to be his partner. The hurt was too deep, there was no physical relationship left. I made plans for the future. I finished my degree, renewed my professional qualifications, went back to work, and got some independence.
This scared him, he couldn't be so horrid any more, I would go as soon as I could afford to do so.
We agreed several years ago to live separate lives, on friendly terms for the children, we are now in the process of separating. We never talk of those things, but they are still there for me, they still hurt. For my husband I think he's forgotten it all, it was a non event to him. I wish I'd done something sooner.

As Marcy said, listen to what you know inside you really want, take the first steps when you are ready. Don't pin your hopes on the YM, stay friends, but put your energy into sorting your unhappy situation out first. You can't give yourself to anyone else until you come to terms with that.
It won't be easy, and it won't be quick.
Good luck.

Ariadne, you are getting excellent advise here, please, pleeeeeaase, don't throw it away due to fears and doubts, please find your strength and inner awe to plow forward into this tumultous time, because it will pass and you WILL rise to the occasion, you will: what else can you do, once it is started? Do not fear, please. You will emerge a strong, wise, and independent woman, as you should be.

I was in an emotionally abusive marraige, for at the very least, the last five of the ten years. I was an at home mom, gave up a career whose industry changed and I became a dinosaur in it. I felt unemployable. I was petrified to divorce. I would not want to do it over again for my life, but I am now happily employed in nonprofit arts administration, and I have my own house, and I found an amazing man (AFTER Mr. Rebound!!!!!) whom I am marrying in June.

You will be so much happier in three years time, even sooner (but you'll feel more settled in three years time) if you set your sights on moving forward to the life you deserve.

Good luck, and stay strong, love yourself!!!

Ariadne,
There's so much wisdom in what's already been said. Be strong!! When you're standing on what feels like the edge of the abyss, and you take that first tentative step, you'll find that it's not the abyss after all...just a shallow hollow that's not so scary after all. At least that's how it turned out for me.

SpecialK and ukgirl, I wept as I read your posts. Although the details are different, the situations and emotions rang so true it hurt.

Ariadne, take heart...there are others who have travelled the path, survived, and THRIVED. Gather up your courage and take a step. Life is too short to be miserable.

Good luck to you!

I too love SpecialK reply...you're latching onto this young man and for what??? You're not emotional there yet to give him what he's going to need. You need to get to a good place in your life where you can command your own prescence and not another to take it from you.

As for your husband, my take is different then everyone else. I don't believe he's being controlling as much as lashing out out of pain, frustration, betrayal, hurt, abandonment. Put yourself in HIS place, if he had willingly started a relationship with someone else online, would you be so tickle pink...

I'm sure he's jumping between emotions of deception...should he support you, or let you go...its a farce, a sham...he's in a place of pain and when we're in that place we want others to hurt as much as we do. You've thrown his promises to his face and in a sense have told him silently that he is worthless...

You're not happy, so instead of going to your husband and working out what is it that you need or he needs to make your relationship work, you decided to bring in a third party and make the situation much worst. Now you're striking at your husband's ego of worthlessness, so he's fighting back the only way humanly possible...with words, shouts, seeming uncaring about what you do...but the pain is choking him.

I would agree about something you said in your post...you are immature...

This ym, sure he claims to love you...but remember, he's not living with you or you him, so you don't really know what you really have, not in the truest of sense.

You need counseling, someone who can help you put the whole situation in perspective. Help you step out of your comfort zone and really take a look at the 'haves' and have nots'. Because relationships are not about being in them when you're both being lovey dovey...its also about caring enough about the other person that you stay in and fight the good fight. The thing is, you claim that this ym is a "best friend", but are YOU the "best friend" he could have. You're not to your husband, so how can you be sure you are to this ym.

Changes to our character start with ourselves, no one can change you unless you give them the power to and the only place one can change so dramatically is to our inner soul. Its the one place that no one can touch. But it most certainly starts with you. Leave this ym alone, let him continue his studies without anymore drama from your end, if he's looking to be self sufficient, he's going to need all the concentration he can get.

In the mean time, you can't solve your problems with the same mind that created it. So change it.

Paris

Excellent responses from everyone.

I have a question for Karen, waterfall etc., if you are emotionally and financially independent, ie, you can be happy yourself, and suppose you have young kid(s) that you love deeply, what do you need a man for?

I think the key thing for me (and I try to teach this to my daughters too) is to not need a man (or anyone for that matter). There is a definate difference between needing someone else in order to get some "need" met and wanting someone else to add to mutual happiness.

You feel trapped and see no way out, you don't think that happiness will ever exist for you, deep down you don't actually like yourself for letting yourself get into this situation.
My experience was not like yours, being trapped in a loveless and abusive relationship, but my husband had left me for another woman. I felt ugly and unattractive, I didn't even bother trying for another relationship as who would have wanted me.
I was lucky, I had friends and family around me, they supported me, made me like myself again. You lack this support, and I feel it is this that you are trying to get from your on-line relationship.
I am not one for telling people you should do this, or you must do that, but looking at the other replies you have received I should think that there is enough there for you to see where your own path should lie.
Be strong and be brave.

I have a question for Karen, waterfall etc., if you are emotionally and financially independent, ie, you can be happy yourself, and suppose you have young kid(s) that you love deeply, what do you need a man for?

....I don't "need" a man, but it sure is nice to have someone to: cuddle with (dogs and children are a pretty good stand-in, but it's different with the person you love), to laugh with incessantly, to listen to your hopes, dreams and concerns, to share love-based intimacy with, to be your consistent companion and growth-partner in life, etc.

I completely LOVED being single, once I got the hang of it...there are definitely advantages in both being coupled and being single. But being single is where you truly get the full opportunity to know and love yourself. Loving yourself is the first step toward emotional health, and once that's in place, the decision to be with a man or not is a personal choice...no longer based in "need".

back on topic....

Ariadne, your story is so nearly identical to mine it's a bit frightening. Please PM me. I think we have a lot to share.

B.

Excellent responses from everyone.

I have a question for Karen, waterfall etc., if you are emotionally and financially independent, ie, you can be happy yourself, and suppose you have young kid(s) that you love deeply, what do you need a man for?

who said I NEEDED a man? Never assume, because you know what's said about that......

Ariadne,

You deserve to be happy. Why do you stay in this unhappy marriage? Before you can start on the road to a new life, you need to leave the old one behind-the one that wasn't working.

And Karen.... wonderful post!

Excellent responses from everyone.

I have a question for Karen, waterfall etc., if you are emotionally and financially independent, ie, you can be happy yourself, and suppose you have young kid(s) that you love deeply, what do you need a man for?

Dream, I'm not Karen nor waterfall, nor am I in a romantic relationship, but I'll offer some feedback.

I found out that I had to be independent financially, and emotionally before I could even think about being with another. I know how it is to be with someone needy; I don't want anyone like that, and so I don't want to be "that". I had to get to a place where I enjoyed my OWN company before I could expect someone else to enjoy being in my company. I love my children very much, more than anything. Although we spend plenty of time together as a family, they want to have their special friends, and I want to have my grown up friends. I like being around men. Until I find that special one, I spend time with different male friends. I even have a few who know just how to hold me in their arms when I need a big hug.:bighug:

Wow, okay Ariadne your story sounds very familiar to me. Believe it or not a few years back I was that 19 year old YM and my OW was in a very similar situation. Be very careful where this leads with your husband. He's been very vocally abusive to you and no matter what he says you could be risking a serious confrontation between these two. Tread carefully. In the mean time, I suggest what others have said, get a job, earn some money, it will help you learn to grow more independant. :)

Thanks for everyone's response so far as 'Why do you need (or want) a man if you are happy yourself, emotionally and financially independent'.

Isn't it a sad thing that a man always wants you to stand up straight like a big tree, or at least like a small tree (ie,not needy), where is the love? I don't feel warm-hearted. Does that mean if I become ill or unemployed for a few month, then the man will leave me?

I am sure I will not be happy every day. Life is hard enough. If I can't complain in front of my man and pretend to be happy, that's a pretty sad thing.

Life is a process. For Karen, your long-term marriage or the 5 years with your exvym is an important (and long) part of your life, not just the life NOW is 'real'. For the original poster, she need to find a job because: 1) for yourself; 2) for the YM or her future partner, not put too much burden on him; 3) men are NOT TRUSTABLE, DEPENDABLE (they want you to be happy by yourself first), don't make yourself a victim again.

men are NOT TRUSTABLE, DEPENDABLE (they want you to be happy by yourself first), don't make yourself a victim again.

sounds like you're still a victim there. :(

Thanks for everyone's response so far as 'Why do you need (or want) a man if you are happy yourself, emotionally and financially independent'.

Isn't it a sad thing that a man always wants you to stand up straight like a big tree, or at least like a small tree (ie,not needy), where is the love? I don't feel warm-hearted. Does that mean if I become ill or unemployed for a few month, then the man will leave me?

I am sure I will not be happy every day. Life is hard enough. If I can't complain in front of my man and pretend to be happy, that's a pretty sad thing.

Life is a process. For Karen, your long-term marriage or the 5 years with your exvym is an important (and long) part of your life, not just the life NOW is 'real'. For the original poster, she need to find a job because: 1) for yourself; 2) for the YM or her future partner, not put too much burden on him; 3) men are NOT TRUSTABLE, DEPENDABLE (they want you to be happy by yourself first), don't make yourself a victim again.

Dream, it sounds like you're hurting right now. This is the way I feel after a break up, even if I was just dating the man & just starting to get close. I have used that anger to make
improvements in my life!

Your story was so similar to mine, I had to go back up and check to see if my face was on the post! LOL

Except in my case, it got more abusive, and I did divorce, not just separate (though we were separated for almost a year before the divorce was final).

After my divorce, I was single for 6 years. I don't think it took me that long to "get myself back" though. Immediately, I recognized the peace and the change in myself back to who I used to be before I was manipulated and abused. I had not thought about this until just now, but I guess that was my first experience with a younger man, too. I didn't date him, but he was a younger man friend of mine who hit on me after I was divorced. My ex had been telling me how fat and ugly I was (5'2", 125 pounds). The YM was 19, I was 35. The YM usually went for younger women himself, so this was a great boost for me. After that, I started noticing other people noticing me, too.

Anyway, I got my self esteem back. I didn't necessarily need to be dating (and I didn't for a while) to do that. The next relationship I was in was also a YM situation. I think I was 37, he was 28 or something. He was also a friend I'd had for a couple of years.

I know it's hard to see what's right before your eyes right now, but I finally saw it when I wrote it out to people that I was chatting with. It may help you also to see it as you continue to post here.

Wish you the best!

men are NOT TRUSTABLE, DEPENDABLE (they want you to be happy by yourself first), don't make yourself a victim again.

sounds like you're still a victim there. :(

It is not that I am a victim. I based that conclusion from what my close friend and some of the OW got here.

Maybe I am too idealistic on relationship. I came from a different culture than American. I think a man should alway take care of the woman in some ways. If a mowan is strong financially and emotionally and has too much love to give, she can devote to her young children (if she has).

Personnally I don't feel the love from a man if I have to 'earn' it by being always strong and happy. In marriage vow there is 'for better or for worse', if a woman is expected to always stand still, then the man (or YM) failed the 'for worse' part. He is there only for 'the better'. Sad.

I honestly have a slightly different view than some members here. I hope I can be persuaded.

Dream I think you might have misunderstood me. I don't believe that a woman should be strong and independent to "earn" a man. I think that people should be self-sufficient and emotionally strong for themselves. A person that is capable of meeting their own needs is healthier for themselves and all those that they interact with. My ex-husband earns a very nice living. During our marriage, we lived very well. However, I also earn a very nice living. When things didn't work out, I was quite capable of continuing to provide my 4 children (2 of which were quite young) and myself a nice lifestyle. I didn't *need* the marriage to provide financially. The ability to make a choice wasn't robbed from me by my dependence.

Eventually I met my new husband, and we were drawn together initially out of shared interests. Neither of us were desperately looking for someone to attach ourselves to. We are both gamers and we met gaming... something we both love to do.

For me it isn't about earning a man, I don't think a man is a reward and I don't think that I need a man to be fulfilled... I don't think anyone does. You need yourself for that and anything else is like frosting on the cake... making it so much sweeter and delightful.

'A person that is capable of meeting their own needs is healthier for themselves and all those that they interact with'

Marcy I completely agree with what you said, but I don't think I misunderstood you :o

It is not that I am a victim. I based that conclusion from what my close friend and some of the OW got here.

Maybe I am too idealistic on relationship. I came from a different culture than American. I think a man should alway take care of the woman in some ways. If a mowan is strong financially and emotionally and has too much love to give, she can devote to her young children (if she has).

Personnally I don't feel the love from a man if I have to 'earn' it by being always strong and happy. In marriage vow there is 'for better or for worse', if a woman is expected to always stand still, then the man (or YM) failed the 'for worse' part. He is there only for 'the better'. Sad.

I honestly have a slightly different view than some members here. I hope I can be persuaded.

I didn't get where you had said that a woman had to always be strong and happy all the time. I thought that you were asking (in a previous post on this thread) if being independent made you more desirable. By "independent", I mean "not needy". I have met women who expect their male friends to pay their bills. I don't think that's any more attractive than a man who expects to come to my house regularly for me to cook him dinner. I want to be able to take care of myself before I add anyone else onto my life. Likewise, I expect my romantic partner to be able to take care of himself.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean by a woman being expected to stand still, and also how that relates to the marriage vows? Thanks!:)

OK it's now a week since I came clean to my husband. Things are improving.

I'm not going to follow the advice to leave this young man alone. I'm in love, have been for six months. It took me so long to admit it because I already was going thruogh the grieving process, I've known it was over for a year but was clinging to it purely to stay in th country where I live.

My husband knows I love this young man. He allows me to keep up contact with him, we spend every hour we get free talking online. The odd situation has arisen where my husband tells me he doesn't love me, allows me to love another man, yet begs me not to leave him. I don't know what is going on.

I am trying to make friends with my husband,. but it is hard. Yesterday I went out with him and a friend to a restaurant. He steadfastedly ignored me, not in a malicious way, he does not hate or blame me any more it seems. He just wanted to play his PSP with his friend.

After the initial shock of realising I loved another man, it has taken him under a week to recover. If anything he's a little more friendly to me, but it's obvious he doesn't really want me. I do not know what he wants, he says he loves nobody. He's been saying that for over 6 months.

I haven't said much about my younger man, because I don't really see him as the problem. First off, yes he is 19. I have seen him on his webcam, at any rate it would not matter if he was 40 or 50, I fell in love with him for his mind and his voice before I ever saw him. I am deeply in love with him, and it makes m happier than I have been in a long time. He turns 20 this June, which is when he will be visiting. There is not a massive age gap between us, not enough that I could be his mother. I always viewed anyone who was a child when I was a child as not massively younger than myself, and I hadn't hit my teens yet when he was born. But that is besides the point, we both agree that it wouldn't matter how old we both were. We love each other. Even if some people here view this as a rebound thing, I see a rebuond as loving somebody not right for yuorself. My husband ironically says I was a rebound thing. I never understood my husband, I was just desperate not to be alone. I understand this young man fully. I would have loved him no matter what the circumstances.

Yes, he IS visiting. We are going to see what happens from there. He wants to stay at university and get a degree so that he can move to whatever country I end up in. It is naturally not certain at the present time where I will end up.

It is not certain we will be together. It will be extremely hard. All we know is that we love each other, will always love each other. He spent 6 months loving me and supporting me while I said I wanted to repair my relationship with my husband. He wanted me to be happy, even if it meant he couldn't be with me. And this week he has asked me if we should go back to being friends, because he fears the breakup with my husband over him is hurting me too much, and he doesn't want to be the cause of such pain. I persuaded him to wait it out. It seems to have paid off. I really don't think my husband cares any more, he was hurting for three days or so seemingly due to his pride and now we are back to the normal routine of him pretending I don't exist. Though we have not had a fight all week and when he talks he is pleasant to me. "Just don't leave me," he says. Why I don't know. All I'm doing right now is living here, it has been the case for months. We do not have a romantic or sexual relationship any more. I care for him deeply and do not want to hurt him, but that's the result of 10 years together and the fact that if I had not married him, I'd consider him as a friend.

I left details out to prevent my identity coming into the open, but actually I do earn my keep, I have a small home business. Financially we are both sound if we stay living together and keeping up a charade. It actually works for both of us. I don't know if that's the real reason he begs me not to leave or not.

If I left him I'd be the greater loser in the deal, I would lose my small business and my visa for this country. I'm prepared to do that if it means I can be with this younger man.

I need to meet him and decide where to go from there. He is already certain. He knows I need to meet up with him though.

If I left him I'd be the greater loser in the deal, I would lose my small business and my visa for this country. I'm prepared to do that if it means I can be with this younger man.

I'm not going to follow the advice to leave this young man alone.


Well, Ariadne....good luck with that. I'm sorry that you won't take the advice of so many posters here who have the ability to look at your situation objectively with wisdom and perspective.

You will need to walk your own road.

He is already certain.
Of course he is...he is only 19, & been infatuated with you for only 6 months, and is flattered that he can meet your emotional needs right now. Actually, his suggestion to take it back down to "friends" perhaps shows more insight into the fact that the relationship doesn't have a chance if it begins in the midst of all of this chaos in your life. Smart boy. I wish you would consider his suggestion for yourself....and mostly for him. You could be setting him up for HUGE heartbreak and confusion in his young life expecting him to meet you while you are still married and be in love/meet your needs when you are not even free.

This scenario is an example of another thread on the boards here once where I purported that, IMO, the OP in a relationship has a responsibility to moderate the relationship when the YP is VERY young (18-19) and easily blinded by infatuation without the decision-making life experience to draw from. Being responsible to me means to put on the brakes, to go slow, to take the other person's future into consideration. It seems downright unfair for you to ask this vym to be your "everything" right now when in his own life he is just growing into being his OWN person as an adult. You already have so much conflict in your own life, is it fair to bring someone else into it? What does his family think about the truth of you two? I'm sure that if they even know, they are not liking it. And if they don't know, then you are engaging in something that is clandestine as well as shrouded in emotional neediness.

I'm sorry, and not trying to be rude, but the relationship doesn't have a chance with this vym, IMO. And in the end, three lives will be in ruin.

Choose the high road, there are no regrets on that path....

Wow, lots of hypocrites on this forum and no mistake.

Forget it, I'm outta here. Got some support but ironically it was all private messages, people who don't want to go against the flow and be criticised themselves I guess for MAKING A RELATIONSHIP LIKE MINE WORK.

Thanks to the people who PMed me, you're inspirational, unlike these other older women who think they can judge just because they haven't been in my situation/have been in it and it didn't work. For THEM.

How bout this for more immaturity: I play an online videogame with him. Not how we met but it may as well have been, seeing as we play it for hours every day.

I guess I should shoot myself, I'm clearly a worthless human being, huh?

I shouldn't have ventured out of my little corner of the internet I guess.

I don't care if I wreck my life. It would be wrecked anyway. He isn't wrecking his. If he hadn't stayed at uni purely for a chance to move to my country, perhaps he might be doing.

Don't care if it doesn't work, but I deserve a shot at it.

My husband always saw our marriage as a financial arrangement it turns out, he just liked to own me emotionally.

Now he knows he doesn't, it has taken him ONE WEEK to get over it.

HE INVITED THIS YOUNG MAN TO STAY AT OUR HOUSE. By the way, I'm saying no to that.

Well I have made a situation similiar in some ways to yours work and I'm certainly not afraid to say so. In fact, I'd wager a guess that we are one of the well known successful ow/vym couples on the board (and yes there are several of us too). I met my ym online when he was only 18 and I was 35. We lived in different countries. We fell in love. After about 8 months online we met in real life and knew in our heads what our hearts already knew... which was that this was definately the real thing. We married about 18 months later. We celebrated our 2nd wedding anniversary this past February.

We have enjoyed the love and support of our families and friends. We bought a home together. We are not unlike any other couple we know. He just happens to be a pretty young guy. He is now 21 and I am 39. He turns 22 in June. He is working on his degree and is in his sophmore year.

I haven't robbed him of a single thing and we have both enriched each other's lives immensely. It is about enriching each other's lives IMHO.

In my mind, your issues are not about him being a vym. I know you will read lots of opinions, some quite strong, that sound as if a relationship with a vym is an abomination and that you are harming him. Take those with a grain of salt... thats what I would do.

Your issues sound as if they are more related to dependency and you are still clearly in a marriage right now. Relationships with vyp are a lot of responsibility and risk (I do not deny it at all... we've just been extraodinarily committed), but any relationship is going to have the most chance of success if both people are entering it unencumbered and in the best possible position (emotionally and financially) to be committed.

Good luck!

I didn't get where you had said that a woman had to always be strong and happy all the time. I thought that you were asking (in a previous post on this thread) if being independent made you more desirable. By "independent", I mean "not needy". I have met women who expect their male friends to pay their bills. I don't think that's any more attractive than a man who expects to come to my house regularly for me to cook him dinner. I want to be able to take care of myself before I add anyone else onto my life. Likewise, I expect my romantic partner to be able to take care of himself.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean by a woman being expected to stand still, and also how that relates to the marriage vows? Thanks!:)

Sorry English is not my first language and I am not able to explain myself well.

I agree that anyone who is "independent" is more attractive.Noboday should 'expect' the other to pay his/her bills.

The thing is, life is not ALWAYS easy. Life has ups and downs. If the woman is in the process of being laid off ,changing job or career, or taking care of a new baby (say take 6 months form work), I expect the man is there, not the attitute that 'You take care of yourself first, I can be your friends in the process, only when you stand well financially and emotionnaly then I'll be with you'. In that case, I feel the man does not love the woman.

My first husband (3 years older than me) took care of me financially and emotionnlly, when I went back to school, I run away from him. Why? I didn't love him. When he was hurt and asked me "I have been so good to you, this is what you pay back to me?", I said 'You loved me, so you were happy, I didn't love you, I didn't feel happy, I only seek financial comfort, now I don't need it'. That relationship is ONE SIDED.

I want to warn the OW here to make sure the relationship with the YM is not one sided. One way to test is under stress. OR make sure the both the OW AND the YM are independent. In that case, what's the nature of relationship?

In my mind, your issues are not about him being a vym. Your issues sound as if they are more related to dependency and you are still clearly in a marriage right now. Relationships with vyp are a lot of responsibility and risk (I do not deny it at all... we've just been extraodinarily committed), but any relationship is going to have the most chance of success if both people are entering it unencumbered and in the best possible position (emotionally and financially) to be committed.

Exactly, Marcy...exactly...

I truly wish you the best, Ariadne; but if you put any cart before any horse (in any life sutation) the journey has a high possiblity of unraveling. No one is judgmental of you here (we don't even know you)..but many if not most here see that you are jumping into something out of desparation rather than true self integrity and emotional health. The difference with the success of Marcy's relationship and the one you talk of with your ym is that she was free (not currently married), she was financially and emotionally in a stable place,etc. It's not that this relationship with your vym could never work, it's just that right now it's not fair to him or to yourself to force it too...whether or not you hb invited him to stay with you (and that's a whole other issue that's indicates a dysfunctional situation that needs to be rectified first).

If you really are "outta here", that's your choice. I wish you well, and hope you find what you are searching for to fill your soul. Just remember, that can't be found in any man. Peace.

Turns out my husband was having an affair with somebody from the same country as my young man.

He went out yesterday and left a chat log on his computer that outlined EXACTLY what had been going on. I wasn't snooping, I wanted to check his computer for something as my internet was plugged into... well, my X-box 360.

He's been in a "more than friends" relationship with his overseas friend. A friend I've known about for 10 years.

I didn't confront him about it and I don't feel betrayed, it's hard to feel betrayed when you've already given up. This is nothing compared to the harsh words he's thrown at me, and it's nothing compared to "I don't love you any more."

I'm thinking he left this on his computer on purpose as her knows I use it.

What is funny is he dared say "You betrayed me." Ironically he thinks I betrayed him not for falling in love with another man, he says that is possible. That it's possible to love two people, if not on the same scale.

He says I have betrayed him for wanting to LEAVE him over it. He says he doesn't love me still, but I owe it to him to stay with him. For financial reasons or what, I don't know. I cannot get ANY sense out of him.

We would certainly both lose out if I left him and this country. I'm basically just living with him now.

Five days after my last post, nothing has changed. Yesterday he made some friendly jokes abuot my younger man. He called up to me today and asked me to relay a joke to him over my gaming headset.

I'm very confused with where this is going, and it certainly seems insane.

IF I left him, I could not afford to go back to university. The tuition fees are insane, and I don't have anything on my CV o earn me ermotely enough money to cover it.

IF I stayed here, I very likely can.

I don't think anyone in this thread who advised me that this was a rebound had any idea of how very much I am over this. It started over a year ago and I knew we were finished. I don't even feel hurt about the fact he has been doing the same thing as me. Even though he never was honest about it.

Ariadne.......do yourself and everyone involved in this a favour and STOP!!!....you are making things worse, gawd my head is spinning reading it let alone living it....and now you are projecting onto people who have given you objective advice which you quite clearly have rejected outright....

you need to stop going round and round in circles......he doesn't love you, you don't love him blah blah....you spend all your time online xbox, romance, chat etc.....listen there is a real world out there which you could participate in.....why you would want to have gone through the last few years and then jump straight into something with someone you haven't met, using him to taunt your husband and then finding out your husband has done the same....what a mess ....put some of your energy into sorting it out before you start something else

aaaagh it sounds dreadful and I agree with Karen, it also sounds doomed....sure this young man has stood by you, he hasn't had to live with you and deal upfront with your neediness and messy headspace.....Paris is right, you are using all these men, your husband for security and your business/home, and your young man for affection and support....babe try standing on your own two feet and making something of yourself, get some help from someone who isn't involved, and get out of the house and away from that computer....if your young man truly loves you then he will wait while you sort yourself out, so you can come to the relationship as a whole person......you may even surprise yourself and decide you want to spend some time on your own .....

mmmm sorry I couldn't be supportive and PM you with lots of validation but I reckon you are going to stuff around with this young man's head just as surely as you have done with your own and your husband's...I wish you peace of mind but I doubt you'll find it in your current headspace

Bumping this one year old thread after reading another where people have been told - they need to be VERY careful with the advice they dole out. It may look like it's right, but it's not going to fit every situation.

If I was as weak in spirit as everyone thought, indeed as I came across at that moment, indeed as I come across EVERY TIME I HAVE POSTED - I only post here when I feel desperation - I would not have been able to come as far as I have. I would have fallen for a silly infatuated teenager who offered me nothing. I would have left my husband for a ridiculous fling.

I am not that kind of person. It took a very exceptional human being to make me drop the values I had built up which were in fact hurting me terribly. I've had to reinvent myself, yes, but I was always the same person at the very core. My boyfriend could see through it all.

I have suffered emotional and physical abuse all my life. It's left me a shell of a person but no therapist would have helped me. I met the inspiration I needed in a man, yes, a MAN, despite what people called him throughout this thread, who shared my personality but refused to allow the rejection of others to scar him.

I recognise that I posted this thread I was suffering guilt because of an extreme reaction from my husband which was unexpected. He is a VERY needy person and he enjoys being pitied. It works - he evokes pity in people. Why he wants it, I don't know. It makes him feel better about himself - "Look how I have martyred myself. Look at how good I am to people, to destroy myself before them, please admire me as I wallow in the mud. It makes me stronger and better than all of you. You must pour gratitude on me, I cannot live without it." It's destroyed him. I did not destroy him. I will not take blame for any of this.

I am still not divorced because as it happens I need to get a UK divorce and it takes a long time.

I split up from my husband.

I got a job in a daycare.

I am still with my boyfriend, I see him every 6 months. He comes to Japan for a month this July. Then I'm going to have to leave Japan as naturally I cannot stay for long on this visa.

My boyfriend told his parents all about me a year ago. They were not surprised and did not fight the relationship.

My boyfriend spent New Year in England with me and met my parents. My father did not give him the "leave my daughter alone, you are a weak man who will make her problems worse" lecture that he gave all my other boyfriends before.

My husband has had two girlfriends since, both with far worse emotional problems than mine. It's not really surprising.

I am mostly over mine. I have the odd relapse but it's borne out of panic and threats made by my husband. I know that whatever happens now though he can't hurt me.

If he divorces me for adultery, I might have to give up on America. There are plenty of other countries in the world.

If he refuses the divorce I will try to live with my boyfriend in America on a student visa. If I can't do that we will move to some country for the requisite amount of time the UK demands you cohabit before you bring your common law partner into the UK on a cohabitation visa. You can even do this if you are legally married, yet seperated.

But whatever happens to me, I'm a much stronger person, and I'm very glad I didn't listen to the advice in this thread.

P.S. Don't make claims like this:

No one is judgmental of you here (we don't even know you)..

Then completely hint the opposite in the very next few words:

but many if not most here see that you are jumping into something out of desparation rather than true self integrity and emotional health.

It's rude to cast doubts on the love expressed by anyone in this forum or any, and indeed it's none of your business. And I considered it a personal insult to my deep respect for a very wonderful and worthy human being. In fact it's why I left this thread.

My boyfriend is teaching me to laugh at such comments or ignore them, instead of feeling hurt. I'm getting more and more like him every day.

Bumping this one year old thread after reading another where people have been told - they need to be VERY careful with the advice they dole out. It may look like it's right, but it's not going to fit every situation.

If I was as weak in spirit as everyone thought, indeed as I came across at that moment, indeed as I come across EVERY TIME I HAVE POSTED - I only post here when I feel desperation - I would not have been able to come as far as I have. I would have fallen for a silly infatuated teenager who offered me nothing. I would have left my husband for a ridiculous fling.

I am not that kind of person. It took a very exceptional human being to make me drop the values I had built up which were in fact hurting me terribly. I've had to reinvent myself, yes, but I was always the same person at the very core. My boyfriend could see through it all.

I have suffered emotional and physical abuse all my life. It's left me a shell of a person but no therapist would have helped me. I met the inspiration I needed in a man, yes, a MAN, despite what people called him throughout this thread, who shared my personality but refused to allow the rejection of others to scar him.

I recognise that I posted this thread I was suffering guilt because of an extreme reaction from my husband which was unexpected. He is a VERY needy person and he enjoys being pitied. It works - he evokes pity in people. Why he wants it, I don't know. It makes him feel better about himself - "Look how I have martyred myself. Look at how good I am to people, to destroy myself before them, please admire me as I wallow in the mud. It makes me stronger and better than all of you. You must pour gratitude on me, I cannot live without it." It's destroyed him. I did not destroy him. I will not take blame for any of this.

I am still not divorced because as it happens I need to get a UK divorce and it takes a long time.

I split up from my husband.

I got a job in a daycare.

I am still with my boyfriend, I see him every 6 months. He comes to Japan for a month this July. Then I'm going to have to leave Japan as naturally I cannot stay for long on this visa.

My boyfriend told his parents all about me a year ago. They were not surprised and did not fight the relationship.

My boyfriend spent New Year in England with me and met my parents. My father did not give him the "leave my daughter alone, you are a weak man who will make her problems worse" lecture that he gave all my other boyfriends before.

My husband has had two girlfriends since, both with far worse emotional problems than mine. It's not really surprising.

I am mostly over mine. I have the odd relapse but it's borne out of panic and threats made by my husband. I know that whatever happens now though he can't hurt me.

If he divorces me for adultery, I might have to give up on America. There are plenty of other countries in the world.

If he refuses the divorce I will try to live with my boyfriend in America on a student visa. If I can't do that we will move to some country for the requisite amount of time the UK demands you cohabit before you bring your common law partner into the UK on a cohabitation visa. You can even do this if you are legally married, yet seperated.

But whatever happens to me, I'm a much stronger person, and I'm very glad I didn't listen to the advice in this thread.


question are you an american? if so most divorces will happen even if he does not sign unless you both have children. As far as the aldultry goes who cares let him divorce you for that..its just a piece of paper.

now on to your man helping you.
YES your man can help you I know mine has but i bet you my bottom dollar having gone through severe abuse from both my fathers and an ex husband I can honestly tell you..it is not a fix all. You will eventually have triggers that he can't help you with. I would suggest an abuse group like i joined at the YWCA. Do not tell me there is no one to help you because I know that is not true. I thought the same thing until i had a HUGE trigger and no man, woman child dog cat and so on could help me with it.. I need someone professional. There at the YWCA i met women who were just like me I WAS NOT ALONE! Now I have a journal and it gives Kai a break from my emotional rollercoaster i put him through and piece of mind that I will be okay.

Even though he is there for you it is also not fair to shove or push all your past baggage onto your new man as it may backfire later on...again talking from experience. He can love you all he wants but when that trigger hits you that you did not realize you had from the abuse..you will need all the support you can get.

I wish you luck!

Wow, lots of hypocrites on this forum and no mistake.

Forget it, I'm outta here. Got some support but ironically it was all private messages, people who don't want to go against the flow and be criticised themselves I guess for MAKING A RELATIONSHIP LIKE MINE WORK.

Thanks to the people who PMed me, you're inspirational, unlike these other older women who think they can judge just because they haven't been in my situation/have been in it and it didn't work. For THEM.

How bout this for more immaturity: I play an online videogame with him. Not how we met but it may as well have been, seeing as we play it for hours every day.

I guess I should shoot myself, I'm clearly a worthless human being, huh?

I shouldn't have ventured out of my little corner of the internet I guess.

I don't care if I wreck my life. It would be wrecked anyway. He isn't wrecking his. If he hadn't stayed at uni purely for a chance to move to my country, perhaps he might be doing.

Don't care if it doesn't work, but I deserve a shot at it.

My husband always saw our marriage as a financial arrangement it turns out, he just liked to own me emotionally.

Now he knows he doesn't, it has taken him ONE WEEK to get over it.

HE INVITED THIS YOUNG MAN TO STAY AT OUR HOUSE. By the way, I'm saying no to that.

I think you took everything to personal if you ask me I saw no attacks i just saw people who were giving you advice from being in your shoes once and not wanting you to make those mistakes. Your comments were borderline depressive. It sounds to me you need to really seek help and I am not saying that to put you down at all. I walked in your shoes and let me tell you it was not fun. I could not see clearly and was blinded by it all refused helped shoved TONS onto my sweetie and he overloaded as well. YOU can not expect your new guy to handle it all as eventually it will overload him and that is not fair.
I would seek help as I stated before there is help out there. YOu may not see it now but one day you will and I only want the best for you as well as others here. We do wish you happiness and a healthy relationship but you have to be mentally healthy before you can do that:(

I posted that a year ago by the way.

I posted that a year ago by the way.

I understand that but it was bumped and updated hun so i thought i would post anywho hehe

If you read other posts, you will find that most posters who come on and say they are married but wanting to cheat on a bad spouse all get the same advice: be honest, divorce one before you jump into another. It's not just you, it's everyone in that situation. You are not singled out.

I have to guess that your constant fighting with your husband, the way you described it in your orignial post on this thread, means that you and he were incompatible in the beginning. Why did you not leave then? Many of us would have simply shrugged it off and looked for another man to deal with!

Ali

If you read other posts, you will find that most posters who come on and say they are married but wanting to cheat on a bad spouse all get the same advice: be honest, divorce one before you jump into another.

Why.

What is the actual purpose of this?

I am 33 years old and probably only have another 40 years left to live. A British divorce in which neither side takes the blame takes minimum 2 years. If your spouse doesn't agree to a divorce, you're looking at 5.

So basically you face years of misery and being alone and for what?

So you can feel good about "being honest to people?"

What if those people don't care?

What if absolutely nobody in your life cares, besides a bunch of strangers on a forum?

And if you are looking at the side of integrity, a divorce doesn't make you "more honest" anyway. If you hold religious or extreme moral beliefs, every divorcee on this planet is a cheater and remarriage is a sin. So I don't know where people who argue this point are coming from. They can't be those who champion old fashioned morals. And they aren't liberally minded either. If neither, it seems pretty odd to so STRONGLY and adamantly back a stance which don't make any real sense.

You've also given me a ton of advice which is wholly US-centric. British law doesn't hold that a seperated person with a new, live in partner doesn't have the same rights as a married person. British attitudes in general don't hold that I'm doing anything amazingly wrong. What is the moral difference between a divorcee and a seperated person in a relationship?

There is none. We're taught that if you divorced then you made a ridiculous mistake and you ought to be sorry and do your utmost not to make that mistake again.

I think that's part of why I stayed with this man! I was absolutely terrified of not holding true to that values. We don't throw away marriages readily where I am from.

The other, quite simple reason is bar my boyfriend I have never related to a single person in my entire life. Settling for one with a few common interests that we enjoyed together seemed a better plan than being alone. It's only in the past 3 years that he became a tyrant. Yes we've always fought but my ability to completely and utterly wash over it has made me able to cope with any person I have known. Oh sure, the man did not forgive me quite so readily, and that's where this became a big problem.

The great irony here is... I cheated on nobody. I told my husband about this relationship when we were months into a period of him having said it was over between us. 3 months after he had invited an English girl to Japan for 2 weeks and begged me the entire time to let him sleep with her. He slept with that girl as soon as I told him about my relationship! He did this months before I met my boyfriend in person for the first time.

It's pretty funny that people in this thread and several who PMed me witrh much stronger words took it upon themselves to chide me for being so horrible to my husband.

I was upset at the time but months later I copied some of the rude PMs to my boyfriend and we had a pretty good laugh.

You probably think we are such terrible, immature people. I'm happy to say that this doesn't bother me any more.

And the people who have said my poor, young boyfriend needs to be protected from me? He needs protection from nobody. He is the strongest man I have ever met. He has never let a harsh word from anyone get him down. He is scrupulously honest and I trust him when he says he is not hurt by any of this - if he was he would say so. He has no weaknesses of character at all, and that is probably why his parents have not opposed this relationship - they probably know it's worthless to oppose. The man is completely confident in his opinions and not one person on this earth can make him back down from them or wallow in self pity if they do not turn out right. He just moves on through his life completely unaffected by past bad situations. I've done the same too for the most part, I just was stupid to be angered by other people who fought what I did.

The point of this post was not so that people could continue their advice that I already rejected and was told to "walk alone" as a result. It was so I could point out that I am much happier for the decision I make. It's confusing to me why people are still trying to justify the advice like my not taking it was a personal attack on them.

What do you win exactly, if I leave my boyfriend and wait 2 years for a divorce? Where does it get you? Would it make you happier? Why? You don't know me and you don't even know that you'd be doing the right thing. I would never consider myself qualified to offer such life changing advice to anyone.

I remember this thread very well and the advice you received from most of the people here was to separate from your husband before getting into another relationship.

"Separate and get to a point where you're living independently without relying on your husband to take care of you" does not mean "wait until your divorce is final before meeting someone new."

I remember this thread very well and the advice you received from most of the people here was to separate from your husband before getting into another relationship.

"Separate and get to a point where you're living independently without relying on your husband to take care of you" does not mean "wait until your divorce is final before meeting someone new."

I saw that to and sorry but you are also coming across extremely defensive. There were no attacks here what so ever. My question to you is this WHAT if your boyfriend wants to eventually marry you? You wont be able to if you are already married to some man you dont like.

ANd to tell you divorce is looked up on badly here in the states as well. I know I been there.

I just think your rude behavior is uncalled for on this forum when people were only trying to help..I am backing out of this convo because it is obvious that no advice can help you as you orginally posted

ps some of the post from before are from people who do not LIVE in the states

I saw that to and sorry but you are also coming across extremely defensive. There were no attacks here what so ever. My question to you is this WHAT if your boyfriend wants to eventually marry you? You wont be able to if you are already married to some man you dont like.

ANd to tell you divorce is looked up on badly here in the states as well. I know I been there.

I just think your rude behavior is uncalled for on this forum when people were only trying to help..I am backing out of this convo because it is obvious that no advice can help you as you orginally posted

ps some of the post from before are from people who do not LIVE in the states

Well let's see here, in this thread I was repeatedly told to get a divorce before starting a new relationship (you can check this in the thread as it's all right there.) It's definitely not just people suggesting a seperation.

I was told that my boyfriend doesn't love me, it's really just infatuation.

I was told that I am rushing into things. You think I did?

I'm defensive because I disagree with you?

My rude behaviour is uncalled for? It's rude to dismiss advice and say you disagree with it? How rude is it to send nasty PMs to people I wonder? How rude is it to say things like "infatuation" based purely on the fact a man is 19 years of age - an attitude I thought this forum expresses scorn for? How rude is it to pathronise him by calling him a "boy?" It's right here in this thread if you want to go back and check.

Oh but of course you cannot fall in love with a married woman. If you fall for a married woman it's all just infatuation. Life really is that simple, conveniently the bonds of marriage put up a magic forcefield around a women which romance cannot penetrate but infatuation can.

I could say that people in this thread who said it was infatuation are operating on that principle, but in actual fact I think it's mostly due to my boyfriend's age.

I laugh too at the idea that that man was "taking care of me" - some people really didn't read the thread. I didn't reveal my home business in post one (I revealed it later) because of many reasons:

1. I didn't want people like him finding this site and guessing who I was. Given that his girlfriend of the time was 22 and he was 30, it was a possibility.

2. He spent so long saying it wasn't a real job, that I started to believe him. I sell on eBay. It makes far more than my day job and I have a business account. I have had this put down and ridiculed by every person I have met bar my boyfriend.

Suggesting that that spendthrift alcoholic who managed to bleed dry $4000 a month on god knows what was taking care of me beyond the simple action of getting me a visa to work, something he expected me to kiss his feet for is simply ignoring the point I've been trying to make here - I posted this thread at my lowest. I painted a bad picture of myself. People will NOT let that lie. Please will you just ignore what I posted one year ago and try to see my point?

My point is however clean cut a situation looks, you should be VERY careful with advice you dish out. It is not always as clean cut as it seems.

You still think I should not be with my boyfriend?

I posted this thread at my lowest. I painted a bad picture of myself. People will NOT let that lie. Please will you just ignore what I posted one year ago and try to see my point?


An easy solution it would be for you to delete this thread and let it be... Start a new thread if you so want, but I do not think you are going to convince people to change their minds of whatever they wrote. Lots of things can happen in one year... Besides you also lied...

Good luck to you in whatever you decide to do!

I lied about what, exactly?

OK, I just read this entire thread and I really think you are twisting much of was said here and exaggerating the rest.

ONE person said that your boyfriend was infatuated because of his age.

The majority of posters tried to advise that PERHAPS it would be better to make a clean break from the marriage before getting involved more with the younger man.

NO ONE said that the relationship with the younger man wouldn't work - but did ask you to CONSIDER that perhaps this COULD be a rebound situation based on their OWN FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES.

You seemed to have taken that to mean that you were being told that it wouldn't work PERIOD. But that is NOT what people were trying to say.

I don't know what people were telling you in PMs, but if they were nasty, then that is THEIR issue, not the rest of us.

I ask you to take a look at the Married Women and the "Other" YM (http://www.agelesslove.com/boards/showthread.php?t=33254)thread and you'll see that the advice you were getting about how it COULD BE better to end the marriage before you get involved in another relationship and how the feelings for someone when in a bad relationship can be out of proportion (all based on FIRST HAND experiences of women who have been through it) is meant well and generally sound advise.

But every situation is different and of course it's easy to look back after a year when your relationship SEEMS to have made it and say See I told you so. But your situation could easily have gone the other way, too. Actually, chances were against it working - you just seem to have pulled through.

But to say that this whole board was unsupportive and naysayers is simply UNFAIR. People were just trying to give you the best advice they could think of.

You came here and said, "I'm unhappily married. I'm stuck with him. I met a guy online who I want to be with. What should I do?"

Overwhelmingly, the advice was: "Don't stay in an unhappy marriage. Take care of YOU. Get yourself on your own two feet before getting involved too deeply because, statistically, the first relationship out of a marriage doesn't stick. So you have a better chance with your YM if the rest of your life is in order."

No one ever said to give up your YM completely - just to do things in a certain order to increase the chances that it would all work out in the end!

And if you have actually left the house you shared with your husband then you pretty much took the advice given. So what if you don't have the piece of paper yet - at least you left your husband and moved on - THAT was the important thing.

Maybe you took a chance with the YM and it's working out - that's GREAT! Why do you seem to think that we would be unhappy that you are making it work? I don't get this whole thumbing your nose at us - we were only giving the best advice we could think to give to give you the best chance.

Well let's see here, in this thread I was repeatedly told to get a divorce before starting a new relationship (you can check this in the thread as it's all right there.) It's definitely not just people suggesting a seperation.

I was told that my boyfriend doesn't love me, it's really just infatuation.

I was told that I am rushing into things. You think I did?

I'm defensive because I disagree with you?

My rude behaviour is uncalled for? It's rude to dismiss advice and say you disagree with it? How rude is it to send nasty PMs to people I wonder? How rude is it to say things like "infatuation" based purely on the fact a man is 19 years of age - an attitude I thought this forum expresses scorn for? How rude is it to pathronise him by calling him a "boy?" It's right here in this thread if you want to go back and check.

Oh but of course you cannot fall in love with a married woman. If you fall for a married woman it's all just infatuation. Life really is that simple, conveniently the bonds of marriage put up a magic forcefield around a women which romance cannot penetrate but infatuation can.

I could say that people in this thread who said it was infatuation are operating on that principle, but in actual fact I think it's mostly due to my boyfriend's age.

OKay FIrst off have I ever sent you any rude pms? NO
DID I tell you to leave your boyfriend? NO
Was I not being nice to you and giving you advice and saying I BEEN WHERE YOU WERE..YES
I do not deserve your thrashing and lashing you are handing out to those who have been nice to you. The pms you recieved are NOT my issue that is between you and the person or persons who Sent you those. IF you find them very hurtful tell a mod and place them on ignore. Lord knows I have had to do that myself from rude pms I had received BUT you do not see me blaming the whole forum like you are.

NOT once in the post to your thread was anyone attacking you only giving you advice that YOU asked for. WHY give you that advice? Here is why BECAUSE some of us have walked in your shoes! Our advice was head on right but you put blinders on and refuse to see we care or are wanting you NOT to fail with this young man. WE want you to be happy and not fail in this new relationship.
BY carrying that excess baggage into a new relationship it is due to fail IF you do not take care of the prior baggage. Eventually it will come bite you in the tush even if you do not think it will. I know and others who were in your situation will tell you the same thing..why because we walked in your shoes.

All I was saying is you need to remove yourself out of that abusive relationship with your ex husband WHICH you did..you have a job now and are moving forward. HOWEVER even if that divorce takes a long time wuold it not be better for you and your new man to start that process not only for you to heal BUT to move forward??? WHAT if this man wants to marry you?? YOu become happy that he wants to be your husband but he can't..why? because you are more worried about it taking a long time. WELL i can tell you your man won't be happy 5 or 6 years from now when he can't marry you because you stated and I quote
I am still not divorced because as it happens I need to get a UK divorce and it takes a long time

Honestly WHO cares if it takes a long time...it will take a longer time for you to move forward if you do not start it.

If he divorces me for adultery, I might have to give up on America. There are plenty of other countries in the world

Why would you have to give up on America becase of this? One we do not judge you because you have adultery on a divorce paper..nor does the immigration care either..I know and why because my fiance and I are working on his visa to come here.

If he refuses the divorce I will try to live with my boyfriend in America on a student visa. If I can't do that we will move to some country for the requisite amount of time the UK demands you cohabit before you bring your common law partner into the UK on a cohabitation visa. You can even do this if you are legally married, yet seperated

NOW moving to another country might be a huge issue as well. Depending on visas. Students and work visas can be tricky as you probably know and on a work visa they go by so many points yada yada and IF that work is needed or wanted for said country.

NOW this commentbut many if not most here see that you are jumping into something out of desparation rather than true self integrity and emotional health.

What they meant was They see you going from a bad situation and are worried that you are not mentally stable in thinking...NOT SAYING YOUR CRAZY but when you are emotionally abused you do things that others would not do. ONe thing is YOU need to join a group that has gone through abuse OR talk to a counciler that can help you with triggers..it is obvious from one of your post that your ex does do this to you still even though you know he won't hurt you...THIS is what I am talking about and one day you willg et a trigger you will not be able to control..I KNOW i been there and so have others.

It's rude to cast doubts on the love expressed by anyone in this forum or any, and indeed it's none of your business. And I considered it a personal insult to my deep respect for a very wonderful and worthy human being. In fact it's why I left this thread.

not once did i see on this thread any personal attacks not one..maybe in pms YES but not on this thread just women who have been there done it and were worried.

YOU came here for advice on what to do and you wanted to be pampered saying what you were doing was wonderful...well YES most of us do want that. but when you have been there done it as I said before we try hard to help so we do not see you fail like we have in the past.

I am a very immature person This is very obvious from your recent post..and I feel if you do not get the divorce and soon you will lose what you have now worked hard to achieve..happiness and a growing maturity...by moving forward and bettering who you are so you and your new man might one day be married and happy together forever.

this thread looks like it will get kinda ugly. i think it should be closed/deleted. i do want to say one thing to the OP...only continual time together will prove the longevity of a relationship. short vacations together are sweet and relationships can seem perfect when time together is spread out. no matter who we are with, it's the day-to-day in person "real life" grind that makes or breaks...
you are still in the honeymoon phase with your YM.
i wish you two the best of luck as a full time in person couple.

Well let's see here, in this thread I was repeatedly told to get a divorce before starting a new relationship (you can check this in the thread as it's all right there.) It's definitely not just people suggesting a seperation.

erm. No...no. I read and reread this thread to make sure I'm not missing something but you definitely were not told (at least not in the thread) repeatedly to get a divorce. Many people suggested that you separate/get independent/etc. But I don't see "you need to get a divorce" being said over and over again. In case I'm missing it, can you please quote some examples from this thread?

Please will you just ignore what I posted one year ago

Who revived the thread? I think that is the person we have to thank for remembering what was posted one year ago.

erm. No...no. I read and reread this thread to make sure I'm not missing something but you definitely were not told (at least not in the thread) repeatedly to get a divorce. Many people suggested that you separate/get independent/etc. But I don't see "you need to get a divorce" being said over and over again. In case I'm missing it, can you please quote some examples from this thread?



Who revived the thread? I think that is the person we have to thank for remembering what was posted one year ago.

the original op revived it

OKay FIrst off have I ever sent you any rude pms? NO
DID I tell you to leave your boyfriend? NO
Was I not being nice to you and giving you advice and saying I BEEN WHERE YOU WERE..YES

You're telling me it's absolutely going to fail, which is just as bad. And why? Because I haven't had therapy. Or did - I ditched the last therapist I had 13 years ago. They wanted to "cure" me of fundamental things that I didn't want curing. They saw my whole personality as the source of my problems. Which is pretty funny really because having ditched the abusers it's my personality that's helping me survive.

I do not deserve your thrashing and lashing you are handing out to those who have been nice to you.

And you're not getting it, you're just getting the simple truth.

The pms you recieved are NOT my issue that is between you and the person or persons who Sent you those.

Did I say they were? I was posting at no one specific person.

IF you find them very hurtful tell a mod and place them on ignore. Lord knows I have had to do that myself from rude pms I had received BUT you do not see me blaming the whole forum like you are.

I'm not blaming the whole forum. I'm saying the forum in general or several most outspoken people here need to stop dishing out generalised advice without really knowing people.

NOT once in the post to your thread was anyone attacking you only giving you advice that YOU asked for.

"Probably no advice can help me" is a "nice" way of saying "I don't really want your advice, I'm just sounding off."

I knew no advice could help me. You don't know me. How can you tell me the ideal paths to follow?

WHY give you that advice? Here is why BECAUSE some of us have walked in your shoes!

You really haven't, because the few who were quick to tell me the relationship was doomed to failure are the only ones who think they have walked in my shoes, but have not. Because they made the mistakes that I knew I wasn't making. You don't need to warn me off such mistakes, because I'm not about to make them.

Our advice was head on right

No it wasn't, and I didn't take it.

You think I took it, but I did some of the things I was told to do in this thread as a natural progression of being with my young man. You think that I honestly would have stayed with my husband and continued seeing my boyfriend if I had not posted here? I don't need people to tell me to do obvious and moral things.

but you put blinders on and refuse to see we care or are wanting you NOT to fail with this young man. WE want you to be happy and not fail in this new relationship.

But you think it will!

BY carrying that excess baggage into a new relationship it is due to fail IF you do not take care of the prior baggage.



I know and others who were in your situation will tell you the same thing..why because we walked in your shoes.


So if I come back in another 5 years and I am still with this man, what are you going to say? That it still might fail because I never "dealt with baggage?"

The baggage is falling off sharply through the friendship of this man. Trust me. I met somebody who is able to get through any situation. He doesn't even try to help me, and I know he often can't. It's the very fact that he never judges me, never argues, never pities me. Never holds a grudge. Never feels downtrodden by me, never

If you state that you think he will do one day, to me it's like an insult to everything he stands for. I won't take it as such because you don't even know him, but it's upset me to this day that there are no other people like him. Because it makes the absolute most sense to be this way, and if everyone had been I wouldn't have any "baggage" for him not to be bothered by.

I am the only one of us who is bothered by it. Oh sure he doesn't like seeing me unhappy, but that is all. It really does wash over him otherwise.

All I was saying is you need to remove yourself out of that abusive relationship with your ex husband WHICH you did..

I did, it was inevitable, though actually I did get a few "you made your bed now lie in it" responses. But I didn't do it because anyone told me to do this. I did it because it was common sense, something you clearly doubt I have. Please don't take any credit for my own decisions.

I did spend a while cohabiting with my husband in a completely platonic relationship while I saw my boyfriend though. And it's that that people loathe. It's only because they feel sorry for my boyfriend and husband, such a bad situation to put them through, surely I'm so selfish.

My boyfriend is glad I was involved with him romantically for those months. Neither of us saw the point in lying, saying we were not in love. How can you deny a relationship like this? It's anathema to us. He did suggest we do this at first, but only because he thought it was hurting ME more, it really did not hurt me. What would have hurt would have been to deny my feelings and entertain one tiny prospect of them being fake and a "rebound." I KNOW I do not think that way.

My husband slept with other girls the whole time too, and if I wasn't bothered by it then he's really only got himself to blame if he was suffering. He completely rejected me as a romantic partner long before I met my boyfriend. He called our marriage a sham from day one. Why protect this man?

you have a job now and are moving forward.

I had a job then, I just am completely wary of people belittling it.

HOWEVER even if that divorce takes a long time wuold it not be better for you and your new man to start that process not only for you to heal BUT to move forward???

Why do you think I'm delaying starting a divorce, as opposed to being forced to delay by British law?

WHAT if this man wants to marry you??

I know what my man wants better than anyone here and I know he knows he can't marry me til he finishes university anyway. I also know being married is not remotely important to him. I want to marry him desperately, and he's granting me that - we know that we have to wait and we accepted this fact long ago.


Honestly WHO cares if it takes a long time...it will take a longer time for you to move forward if you do not start it.


I can't start it. I am actually seeing if my husband goes for the adultery option and legally he can't do that yet because we have to have proof of being apart for 6 months and we basically cannot prove that with Japanese documents, he is doing it based on when he moved back to England.

I don't want him to do that because it DOES jeapordise remarriage in America.

Think about it.

I was married in a foriegn country, and without being married I legally couldn't live or work there.

I'm about to get a divorce from the first guy and move to another foreign country using the same trick! It ALREADY looks bad, how bad do you think it looks from the perspective of being an adulteress?

I know how religious your country is.



and IF that work is needed or wanted for said country.

I'm a daycare teacher and I'm looking for a degree in childcare in the USA. I know that's one of the HIGHLY demanded jobs that not enough nationals do. And I work with a Japanese guy who did said degree in California. So it's not a hugely impossible thing to do.

My boyfriend for his part is working towards a qualification in teaching highschool. I think we won't have too much trouble here.

What they meant was They see you going from a bad situation and are worried that you are not mentally stable in thinking...

You are basing this one a post from somebody who was in a terribly stressful situation. I'm not mentally stable... well wow I handle kids all day, I think I can handle the so called immaturities of a 20 year old. And given that 20 year old lacks any immaturities I think I'll do just fine.

NOT SAYING YOUR CRAZY but when you are emotionally abused you do things that others would not do.

I'll always do things that others don't do. I see it as a point of personal pride, rather than weakness for the most part.

YOU came here for advice on what to do and you wanted to be pampered saying what you were doing was wonderful...

No I didn't, as a matter of fact I do this on the internet all the time, I post things about my life that I know people will fight hard against and it prepares me a bit better for how I'll be treated in real life. If I was pampered I'd know I was part of the crowd. I'd have a myspace account with a lot of "friends" and I wouldn't feel particularly unique and good about myself for it.

This is very obvious from your recent post..and I feel if you do not get the divorce and soon you will lose what you have now worked hard to achieve..

If this divorce looks impossible because my ex decides he wants to wreck me, I have a backup plan to go teach in China where they require no degrees for a visa and use the funds to pay for a distance degree. My boyfriend has said he will move anywhere with me. Once you've cohabited in a country long enough as a couple the UK will accept you as common law husband and wife... or husband and husband/wife and wife if you want the full truth of how liberal the UK law on this particular visa is.

I am 33 years old and probably only have another 40 years left to live. A British divorce in which neither side takes the blame takes minimum 2 years. If your spouse doesn't agree to a divorce, you're looking at 5.



Just wanted to clarify this ............. Being as you and your husband, going on what you have said, have many problems why can't you go for a divorce on the grounds of irretrievable breakdown, citing Unreasonable behaviour as the cause??? You can agree the terms between you before you submit the petition if need be, they don't need to be severe allegations, just show that the marriage has broken down......... Don't forget under UK law divorces are No Fault and there is nothing on the final papers that gives any clue as to what the reasons were, so no one knows anymore then that you divorced a previous partner......... Unless it is an adultery petition that names the other parties, a rare occurance in the UK and one that most solictors advise against.

I have been divorced 3 times under UK law and all 3 were Unreasonable behaviour ......... My first divorce took nearly 3 years, only because there were children and property involved and my husband was a total, vindictive &$$ . Had he actually returned stuff, attended court dates etc. the divorce would have taken less then a year ......... My 2nd divorce took 5 months, from petition to Absolute! I started the proceeding on both of these......... My 3rd divorce took just over 3 months, admittedly some of the Unreasonable behaviour my husband cited was laughable (my solicitor and I were in stitches reading the petition) and I had more then adequate grounds to defend it, however, we let them stand in the interests of getting the whole thing over ASAP. Being as there were no children or property involved and the division of personal property had been agreed beforehand in both these cases I was not even required to attend court for either of these, the Nisi and Absolute papers were forwarded to me by my solicitor. The 3rd divorce was also a DIY divorce, my ex just brought a divorce pack from Smith's filled it in and submitted it.



Here is an overview of the requirements under UK law to give you an idea of what is needed.
Unreasonable behaviour

You must show that your spouse has behaved in such a way that you cannot reasonably be expected to live with him or her. Unreasonable behaviour is now the most common fact on which to prove the ground for divorce in England and Wales. In an unreasonable behaviour petition, the petitioner sets out a number of allegations against the respondent.

These allegations might include references to excessive drinking or financial extravagance, for example; but it's worth bearing in mind that the court doesn't insist on really severe allegations of unreasonable behaviour in order to grant a divorce. Relatively mild allegations such as devoting too much time to a career, having no common interests or pursuing a separate social life may well suffice. Using mild allegations may also make it easier to agree the contents of the petition with your spouse before you issue it

I already knew this but I have a feeling my husband wants "revenge" on me for adultery even though he committed it first.

I asked him to file for unreasonable behaviour. Everyone in the UK knows that means a quickie divorce where no partner was really at fault.

Question is, does the USA?

Does the specific immigration officer I'll get know that being divorced for "Unreasonable behaviour" is merely code for "Well the UK has no fast 'blameless' divorce option, so people who want a fast, no contest divorce chuck a coin and the loser takes the 'blame' basically."

I still can't go that route for another few months anyway.

If my husband goes the "adultery" route I WILL contest it, which will be pricey and lengthy to do.

I have no clue what he'll do, he makes these threats to still have power over me.

Could he cite his reasons for "unreasonable behaviour" as being the fact I wouldn't agree to an open relationship? Haha.

Ariadne....

I have reread this entire thread....

I realize that you started this thread when you were at low moment in your life...you were confused, you were hurting, you were angry....a lot of emotion going on there.

You posted on an internet site and you asked for people's advice, their opinions, and they stepped in and tried to comfort you and tried to guide you the best they knew how from their experiences...from what I have read. What all the members posted on this thread was just what you would have expected to get...their opinions. I'm not certain why you would attack people for giving you an honest opinion on your situation, when that was what you were asking for when you posted.

Not everyone's opinion is going to be the same, and not everyone's idea of how to handle a situation is going to agree with how you would like to handle a situation. So, you just take what helps you from what people post, and discard the rest. Members can only post based on what they know and what they have experienced....they are not a group of highly-trained relationship therapists, they are just a group of people who tried to respond to your request for help and comfort. MOST of the posts I saw were very kind and supportive and tried to steer you in what they felt was the best direction. It's logical to me that MOST people are not going to advise you to stay married to your husband and live in the same house, but your husband will see other women and you will have a relationship with a young man, etc. That's a very complicated situation with the potential to cause a lot of pain, to all of the parties involved. That is not logical advice to give....Luckily, you and your b/f made it through that situation, and have gone on to grow as a couple and move forward. But for a lot of people, it wouldn't have worked out that way.

While I do agree that people need to think carefully about the advice they post and the way in which they word it, I honestly do believe that every person who posted on this thread did that. And while I can see how some of those posts might upset you, I also have to say if you don't want hear points of view you do not like, it's probably best not to ask for input out in public.

I am NOT meaning this as any sort of attack on you, and I am very glad that you took some steps to get into a situation that you are happy in.....but I don't like it that you came in and bumped up a year-old thread just to argue with people who only gave advice you requested them to give.

Let's let the past be the past and just move on from here...

I already knew this but I have a feeling my husband wants "revenge" on me for adultery even though he committed it first.

I asked him to file for unreasonable behaviour. Everyone in the UK knows that means a quickie divorce where no partner was really at fault.

Question is, does the USA?

Does the specific immigration officer I'll get know that being divorced for "Unreasonable behaviour" is merely code for "Well the UK has no fast 'blameless' divorce option, so people who want a fast, no contest divorce chuck a coin and the loser takes the 'blame' basically."

I still can't go that route for another few months anyway.

If my husband goes the "adultery" route I WILL contest it, which will be pricey and lengthy to do.

I have no clue what he'll do, he makes these threats to still have power over me.

Could he cite his reasons for "unreasonable behaviour" as being the fact I wouldn't agree to an open relationship? Haha.


Going on my adopted sister's experiance of immigration to the US on a F1 all they were interested in was that all her previous divorces were legal and final........ She had divorced 4 previous partners, her last divorce only being finalized a week before the application for her F1 visa was submitted. She was never asked why her previous marriages had ended or for any details about them apart from the relevent documentation.



Going on the things my 3rd husband cited as "unreasonable behaviour" I wouldn't be at all suprized LOL

Let me rephrase this so you might understand it better
I am saying in most cases IF you do not take care of your excess baggage in most cases it will fail. I know I am speaking from experience.
NOW I know I do not know you but many of us have been in similar situations
and you are coming across to me as highly defensive and attacking me. I am only trying to help you so you can have a great life with your young man instead of that nobhead husband of yours.
He sounds like a complete moron and you deserve better. However you are being rather rude towards me and others and all we are doing is trying to let you know we been there. I NOT once told you to leave this young man in fact I want you and him to have a beautiful life.

I think you need to take a step back and understand I am rooting you on and not trying to make your life worse then it already is with your husbands crap.

When you post probably no advice will help me you should have maybe posted I do not need advice I just need a place to vent..probably is inviting people to help you.
ot once did i say You're telling me it's absolutely going to fail I was only stating that with excess baggage it makes it highly stressful later on to your partner..anyone who has had a relationship and has baggage from the past knows that the partner gets the brunt of it sometimes which is not fair to them.

and by the way YOU are not alone on the abuse..my real father had his way with me till I was 6 then my step dad had his way till I was 12...then I followed the pattern my mom set for me and married a man who beat me for 10 years...SO YES I have walked in your shoes...been there done it..many times

also NOT once did i say your relationship was DOOMED to fail..reread it without so much anger. Personally You need to get help with your anger because EVERY post you made is highly defensive and angry. How are we suppose to get to know you if you are like this????

my responses to you WERE NOT AN ATTACK I am only seeing myself in you and my past and thank god I found a group at the YWCA who helped me get past all that anger and move forward and let the past go and BE happy...THAT is all I want for you and your new man..nothing more

I will back out and will not be posting on this anymore it seems a waste of my time
I wish you luck in your life and happiness and hope that you have many happy years with your young man..good luck to you

Going on my adopted sister's experiance of immigration to the US on a F1 all they were interested in was that all her previous divorces were legal and final.

This is correct. There are several grounds for divorce in the US; however, in most states, "irreconcilable differences" is what most people opt for and, frankly, for all intents and purposes, other grounds don't amount to much of anything in divorce court anyway.

The only thing INS cares about here is that any prior marriages are final.

The "religiousness" of our country has nothing to do with anything regarding immigration.

the original op revived it


mmhmm. I know... I was asking a question that has an obvious answer

No I didn't, as a matter of fact I do this on the internet all the time, I post things about my life that I know people will fight hard against and it prepares me a bit better for how I'll be treated in real life. If I was pampered I'd know I was part of the crowd. I'd have a myspace account with a lot of "friends" and I wouldn't feel particularly unique and good about myself for it.

Since you never wanted our advice in the first place and reject anything and everything that is ever said here, I am closing this thread out of respect to the other members who were only trying to help.

Maybe, next time, please find another forum to "use" with such disregard. :rolleyes: