Advice needed urgently

Hi,
Some of you may remember my story with my YM some 4 months ago. In a nutshell, we have been together every single day and I really thought that he was my soul-mate.

However, as things developed it turned out that I became less contented over time and that's because it seemed that he was unwilling to go out with me as much as I wanted. He seems to be wanting sex most days, and although he does help me around when I ask for it, he is reluctant to make our relationship public.

So, feeling insecure, I brought the subject of marriage and he seemed less than enthusiastic and told me that he won't be able or willing to consummate our relationship wherever we are, but is willing to do so if and when we move to another country ( mind you there are no concrete plans of that other country at this point ), which is a long shot since it's not easy to do so immediately or in any foreseen future. I feel exploited at this point and a sex object, and that as long as we had sex he stuck around, and wanted - no, demanded it everytime we are together ; at times he would leave immediately afterwords which made me feel like an unpaid prostitute , although he himself pointed his quick departure to me, which to him was unavoidable because of work, family obligations, blah, blah, . . . . It sucks :eek:

Now, I have no intention of leaving my country, although I understand fully the reasons behind his wish to leave since this country is not his by the way but he lived here all his life with his extended family, but is not considered a citizen but an expatriate with less rights etc ( for reasons beyond this board ).

He seemed very immature to me when I tried to discuss our future, as I am unable to go like this without having the blessing of a marriage ( at least of a possibility ), and that's mainly because I felt that he was starting to do 'his own thing' without including me and also that he plans his night-stays before-hand with me which looks like he is not as impulsively connected to our relationship as I initially thought.

His family it seems won't accept me and he is still living with them but sleeps over at my place about 2-3 times a week. He used to keep in touch by phone with me quite a lot .

To make a long story short I told him that I do not feel secure in our relationship and that I would rather be married to him. He seemed to have had enough of this and now he's almost gone. Previously he told me that he would stick around for me ( I live alone and away from my children and have a few financial problems ) and he mentioned often that he was not interested in having kids. Was he less than sincere? I wonder

He calls me less often now, and I feel terribly depressed and at my all-time low. But what I told him was what I needed and felt I had to say for myself so that I won't have to suffer anymore or further along the line. I really really thought that he was my soul mate, but it seems life had other plans.

Does anyone have any ideas about this and whether I should have stayed and waited - but for what?

Editted to post a question for who may read this : Would you have stayed for the sex which was great by the way and refrained from mentioning a future????

Thanks for reading

i almost went back and read your previous posts....but i think i don't need back-info, i can call this from what you've said here....

whether I should have stayed and waited - but for what?

the only thing positive i saw you say (or remember you saying) was that he kept in touch with you pretty good. well suuuurrreeee he does, else you might stray. and we (he) can't have that, now can we (he)?

he told you how he felt, that it wasn't happening unless you moved.....*cough* to a different COUNTRY?? what the snot is that about? :eek: makes no sense. oh yeah it does. he doesn't want to marry you. no biggie, been plenty of guys didn't wanna marry ME. i went on about my business and i found the one that did that i ALSO wanted to marry. worked out real well i think.

so i conclude with what i opened with...a quote from your post....

whether I should have stayed and waited - but for what?

you nailed it. consider it nailed. nailed, i say.

best of luck

Tracy

Does anyone have any ideas about this and whether I should have stayed and waited - but for what?

Nope...you shouldn't have stayed, not with his narcissistic treatment of you. At one point in my relationship with an exvym he was ALL ABOUT being physically intimate, but dragging his feet about being public. I came to this forum for advice, and a very wise woman (her initials are Jo-admin:yes: ) said to ask him directly, "How come I'm good enough to sleep with, but not good enough to be your public girlfriend?" That knocked some sense into him at the time, and we began the "going-public" process. We ended up breaking up, but the issue of respect here is the same.

Any guy who won't FLAUNT YOU in public is not worth your time or heart.

Editted to post a question for who may read this : Would you have stayed for the sex which was great by the way and refrained from mentioning a future????

No...I wouldn't settle for that. I probably wouldn't have mentioned the "M" word, but I would have pressed for his thoughts on the future with me in a general sense at least. I'm not a FWB kind of person AT ALL.

I really really thought that he was my soul mate

Honey....the illusion that there is ONE soulmate out there for us is a crock. Set that notion aside or you will ALWAYS be disillusioned. There are actually MANY people who are wonderful potential matches for us in the world...no one "knight in shining armor". These fantasies have only created heartbreak and delusion. Also, during the first 6 months of any new relationship the other person SEEMS like our soulmate because of the endorphin rush of infatuation.

Let him go, and don't look back. He did not value you the way you deserve. Spend time on yourself right now, don't look for that "perfect soulmate" and you'll be suprised what will be brought into your life when you are truly ready and open.

The sad time is tough...but you will make it. Time is a great giver of perspective.

Any guy who won't FLAUNT YOU in public is not worth your time or heart.
...

Let him go, and don't look back. He did not value you the way you deserve. Spend time on yourself right now, don't look for that "perfect soulmate" and you'll be suprised what will be brought into your life when you are truly ready and open.

The sad time is tough...but you will make it. Time is a great giver of perspective.

Amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better myself. Don't beat yourself up about this.

I am sorry to sound so critical Buttercup, but why would you ask a guy who will not take you out in public to marry you? I would not have accepted his proposal even if it would have been him proposing to me.

My opinion is that you either resign yourself that your relationship will be a sexual relationship without commitment, you know, just for fun. Or leave the relationship. The "leave the country and we will get married" is just bs if you ask me. If he is not marriage material in your country he will not be marriage material in another country.

Again, sorry if I offended you.

This guy used you for sex. He took you for a ride. He's not interested in anything but himself and gratifying his own needs.

Drop him like a bad habit.

I'm sorry you feel so low. Get some help for yourself. Your sad feelings are about what's lacking in you, not about him. He's a user. You're a good person who got sucked into a bad deal. There were warning signs, but you didn't want to pay attention.

Take care of yourself! No one else will!

No way should you have hung in there waiting to see what would happen. You have done the right thing. Don't waste another moment on this using loser.

Thank you everyone for your valuable advice.

However as things turned out, he got in touch again and we decided to give us another chance . :kfluffy:

Now, let me make this clear, at the beginning of our relationship it was me who did not want any attachment pe ce and I kept repeating that we are great together because we live the moment, and have no plans for the future.

As for going out together, this is an issue I need to have a clear opinion on as I am not sure either that I want to be seen with him in public as yet . . . !Not that we never go out together. In fact he just dropped me to this internet cafe .

It seems to me that bringing the M issue from my side was sort of a control thing after I felt that he had been the one controlling our encounters.

I think he got the message and we are still together like we started some four months ago. It's time to give my mind a break :throw:

I'll keep you posted if things develop further

Oh I see...he realized he may be losing the best piece of his life and he better play nicely until HE is ready to move on.

Why do women do this to themselves?

So you're going to suppress your feelings and your self worth in order to have a FWB relationship because its better to do this then to go out there and do the work require to find someone worth having you.

I don't believe you...I believe that what you're feeling is exactly as you posted it, but as an ow, you're willing to settle for the lizard meat instead of filet mignon. Something is better than nothing, right. Hmmmm...its going to be interesting to hear how this pans out and what your self esteem is going to hit in the end. After all, his family still doesn't like you...that alone may make him abandon you again.:no:

Paris

I think you're completely deluding yourself out of fear of being alone.

Don't be surprised when this all turns ugly again in short order. Forewarned is forearmed.

Now, let me make this clear,Here come the rationalization. You are now making excuses for all the reasons you gave to give him the boot.

I have done the same many times. Come back when the pain comes. We will be here with open arms. I hope just once that I am wrong... :Thud:

During my last breakup I had some scenarios like this one: me with my bf and him running out the door after sex, almost literally at one point. Okay, so maybe that's too much information, but I had to go to my crew, my pack, for some advice. And where do you go to ask a question about a guy and his crazy guy behavior? Other guys! Vince, this 20 something Italion Stallion (he's bi, I don't know if I would be comfy with that one, it's new turf) and I chatted about this and he said it's guilt! The guy knows he's lost interest and he's just coming around for the sex, and he's feeling really guilty about it!

So, don't get depressed or mad about what I've just said: get even! Dealing with this type of fella is easy because the confusion he causes you may tend to give him control in your relationship. Don't let him. You be very specific about what you want and demand that he give it to you with no excuses or you are off. And if you have to leave, so what? What have you lost?

Not a thing, in my book. Just some hook up sex, that even though you might like it, you really wanted something more, right? So, this man is just not for you! Go out on some dates and find someone new!

Hugs,
Ali

These kind of followup posts by OP's make me so sad...they start out with such clarity at the beginning of their thread about the jerk-manship of a guy they've been with, and are able to list all of the bad things about the scenario; but then RUN back into the guy's arms the second he contacts them. Ugh. The reason why it's SO sad to me is probably because I remember being there in my past:( .

But....when you know better, you do better...Buttercup, you MUST trust your instinct and do MUCH better than this guy. Here is what you said...your words of clarity and resolve:

I became less contented over time ...

he was unwilling to go out with me ...

he is reluctant to make our relationship public...

I feel exploited at this point and a sex object...

as long as we had sex he stuck around, and wanted - no, demanded it everytime we are together ...

He seemed very immature to me ...

His family it seems won't accept me ...

I am unable to go like this without having the blessing of a marriage...

I do not feel secure in our relationship ...

he was starting to do 'his own thing' without including me ...

Butter...which one of these above quotes gives you any indication that there is something good for you in this "relationship"? Your brain is giving over to your heart, and that will only lead to greater heartache and a hacked self esteem in the end. Listen to the wise women here who URGE you to value yourself in your true worth, and tell this guy that you do not have space in your life for anyone who doesn't adore you or shout from the rooftops that he loves you until the ends of the earth. YOU DESERVE THAT...not the scraps you are getting from this guy who only wants to have his cake and eat it too.

Honey...preserve your personal integrity, it's all you really have in the end.

I appreciate everyone's input in my dilemma. :thanks:

During my last breakup I had some scenarios like this one: me with my bf and him running out the door after sex, almost literally at one point. Okay, so maybe that's too much information, but I had to go to my crew, my pack, for some advice. And where do you go to ask a question about a guy and his crazy guy behavior? Other guys! Vince, this 20 something Italion Stallion (he's bi, I don't know if I would be comfy with that one, it's new turf) and I chatted about this and he said it's guilt! The guy knows he's lost interest and he's just coming around for the sex, and he's feeling really guilty about it!

So, don't get depressed or mad about what I've just said: get even! Dealing with this type of fella is easy because the confusion he causes you may tend to give him control in your relationship. Don't let him. You be very specific about what you want and demand that he give it to you with no excuses or you are off. And if you have to leave, so what? What have you lost?

Not a thing, in my book. Just some hook up sex, that even though you might like it, you really wanted something more, right? So, this man is just not for you! Go out on some dates and find someone new!

Hugs,
Ali

Ali, I like what you said and it definitely makes a lot of sense.

I know I will get over him in time, but since I had not dated for a long time prior to him, mainly because I was busy raising my son for so long, even oblivios that at my age I could still be exploited or used ( to tell you the truth my self-esteem must have been so low ), I fell so readily for him when he started all of this.

True. I have not lost anything, and 5 months of him are enough to learn yet another valuable lesson in life and in self-respect .

Being basically a loner, I dont find it easy to meet new men or people for that matter, and it's usually someone who is outgoing who would get to know me and start a conversation .

I better stay by myself for the time being. There are other things in life to enjoy than a fast one. It's just not worth the heart/headache(s).

He gave me back my apartment key, offered to pay the installements for the PC I gave to him for his birthday when I thought some money would be coming ( which is a good one on his side though but let's see if he will carry through), but we were back in the sack in no time as I mentioned above :oops:

But today, I am sticking with my decision, of not allowing him to contact me or to answer his calls since we end up on his own terms and as usual in bed.

It's also true that the sex is/was great but it may not be worth it in the long run for all the pain it inflicts thereafter .

Please pray that I stand firm on this. I feel a bit vulnerable at the moment :bighug:

I will keep you posted

Love starts with a Smile, grows with a Kiss, and ends with a Tear

I know I will get over him in time, but since I had not dated for a long time prior to him, mainly because I was busy raising my son for so long, even oblivios that at my age I could still be exploited or used ( to tell you the truth my self-esteem must have been so low ), I fell so readily for him when he started all of this.

True. I have not lost anything, and 5 months of him are enough to learn yet another valuable lesson in life and in self-respect .

Being basically a loner, I dont find it easy to meet new men or people for that matter, and it's usually someone who is outgoing who would get to know me and start a conversation .

I better stay by myself for the time being. There are other things in life to enjoy than a fast one. It's just not worth the heart/headache(s).

Buttercup, I went a long time without dating also. I also kept to myself a lot. I had to work at being more outgoing so that I could form friendships with both men and women. When you have several positive people in your life, it's easier to drop the negative people.

Now here's an update to our relationship to whoever will still take me seriously even just for this post . . .!

It's been almost 2 months since my awakening to our future-less relationship but we stayed together not on his terms mostly, but on mine; meaning, he is not coming to see me whenever he feels like it but that he should let me know beforehand, and also that he is to call me more often and that we see one another outside of the bedroom which he abided by religiously at least for a while.

But as in the back of my mind, I know I need not stay with him, if he had no future plans, and even though he had been doing exactly what I wanted him to do in order for me to stay around, I still feel I need more.

So, to make a long story short, I had given him an ultimatum of either to tie the knot by the end of May, or that each will go his own way.

I did mean and will probably keep my end of these promises of not backing down on this, and now I kept contact with him to a zero, while he keeps leaving messages and calling me several times day and night.

He seems to think that I am not serious about this new ultimatum ( I know what you think guys ), but I am dead serious this time around. I had had enough . . . !

We have been intimately involved for 6 months and I need to move on. He is still hoping and thinking that he is a necessity in my life, but although I had been a bit dependent on him for a few of these previous months, I know I can make it on my own.

I have reached a point where I feel that he is almost stalking me with his insistant calls and messages. He had told me the last time we had this deal that he knew that by his not calling me I would be off the hook since I rarely if ever call him, and that he would help me in this endeavor, which he was unable and/or unwilling to keep.

I appreciate anyone's input into this . Should I report him? should I warn him that if he kept contacting me that I would eventually report him? or should I just keep ignoring his calls and messages,( but that doesn't seem to deter him so far ) ????

This is part of my dilemma at this time, and the other is that I don't have romantic or love feelings for him any more - at least not like I did before- , and although I gave him that ultimatum of either/or, in the back of my mind and heart I am hoping that he will not be able to keep his end of the deal, but I had to be tactful enough.

Thanks for reading and please let me know what you wise women will do if in my position in light of these new developments. No judgements please :no:

It's been almost 2 months since my awakening to our future-less relationship but we stayed together not on his terms mostly, but on mine;

meaning, he is not coming to see me whenever he feels like it but that he should let me know beforehand,

and also that he is to call me more often

and that we see one another outside of the bedroom which he abided by religiously at least for a while.

I still feel I need more.

I had given him an ultimatum of either to tie the knot by the end of May, or that each will go his own way.

I kept contact with him to a zero, while he keeps leaving messages and calling me several times day and night.

He seems to think that I am not serious about this new ultimatum

We have been intimately involved for 6 months and I need to move on.

I have reached a point where I feel that he is almost stalking me with his insistant calls and messages.

Should I report him?

should I warn him that if he kept contacting me that I would eventually report him?

or should I just keep ignoring his calls and messages????

I don't have romantic or love feelings for him at this time

I gave him that ultimatum of either/or, in the back of my mind and heart I am hoping that he will not be able to keep his end of the deal



i am so confused by all these things i've quoted from your post.

report him?
you give him an ultimatum (one of which is to call you more) and then you won't answer his calls?

he's not to come see you unannounced but again.....you won't answer his calls?

you don't have feelings for him but you still gave him a guideline for having a relationship with you?

and the bedroom thing....why is he the one that abided for a while? why not the both of you abided?

you've been together for 6 months and you basically say, "marry me or else" ?

and lastly, cuz i'm confused, you gave the guy a test hoping he'd fail?!

i'm not making any judgements....i'm saying you need to fess up to this guy how you feel and stop with the coin flippin', for whatever reason you're doing it because that matters naught.

now don't get me wrong, i'm not holier than thou, i've done this same thing before. once.
and once was all it took for me to feel like a schmuck. i had sunk to his level and it didn't make me proud of myself at all. i made excuses for why i did it and excuses only satisfy the one who makes them.

best of luck to you. :)

T

right GEG, this struck me as a lot of game playing, where everyone loses.

buttercup, if you don't feel the same way about the guy, let him go. if you need more clarity about the situation, get some counseling, but knock off the games. no one benefits.

I'm new to this forum and I haven't answered to many threads, but this post somewhat bothered me. Why would you give a marriage ultimatum to a guy you don't have feelings for anymore? If you're confused, if you need some time to figure things out, tell him that. I don't understand the reporting part either. If you want him to stop calling, you should ask him to do that. Have you talked at all with him?

I have to agree with everyone here...It sounds like a huge mind game to me..

why would you give a guy the ultimatium to marry you
why set rules and boundries yet not stick to them
If it were me I would tell him LOOK its over THEN change my number and email...it sounds like a horrible rollercoaster ride of emotions...ACK
time to get off it and move on

I too am wondering why the heck to give a guy the ultimatum of marriage if YOU DON"T REALLY HAVE FEELINGS FOR HIM? Is this just so you can say "Thanks for asking, but no"?

I personally would NEVER want to marry someone who had to be coerced into marrying me. That is just doomed from the start!

I would cut my losses and move on. There are other fish in the sea and being alone is really not all that bad when you get used to it.

I had given him an ultimatum of either to tie the knot by the end of May,THIS MAY??? :eek:

Your idea of security is marriage. Until you feel SECURE regardless of the status of a relationship, you will be easily manipulated by men.

You need to tackle the dating process like a young adolescent. First just be around guys in groups with both men and women. Then just go out in double dating or group parties. Only after you really know yourself do I recommend that you tackle a relationship.

What ever you do, please wait on marriage for awhile. You are too vulnerable right now and need time to learn how to be single dating woman. Just my 2 cents... from my own experience! :)

Oh honey, you are so confused right now, aren't you? I understand, but, what you are doing isn't going to help you one bit. It will be hard, but you must "let him go" and move on with your life....if he did marry you....it would only "feel" worst when he continued his game playing (which he just might). My prayers are with you. Please stay strong and be good to yourself.

I agree giving the man * you better marry by this date* wont work hun and if you marry him it wont change him..it will lead to resentment and bitterness

I am not in a relationship with a VYM at this time but I read these posts because it's possible, even probable, it could happen someday-at least a fling. But for now, let's just say I'm a lurker. Even so, everyone's advice to each other is so amazing and keeps me in check about my own many relationships I've had since junior high (I'm 45 now).

My advice Buttercup is to let this relationship go. NOW. You are on a teeter-totter between manipulating him into marriage or wanting to call the cops. You say you don't love him anymore?

Nothing good will come from this. You need distance, time, and perspective...maybe a bit of counseling.

Been there, done that. This is a twisted game you two are in. Give yourself the gift of freedom and leave him. And give him the gift of freedom from YOU. You two are a train wreck. The longer you stay, the more damage is done to each of you. There is no sane choice but a complete break. No sex or illusion of relationship is worth this amount of drama. If you stay, you will cause each other great amounts of pain and confusion. No man (boy?) is worth hurting over or hurting.

I think you are bargaining out of desperation

I do believe in:

1) being the best "me" that I can be
2) having a full awareness of my true value (priceless)
3) not settling for less

No offense intended but I don't believe in sharing my body with anyone who does not acknowlege my value by his actions and words. That may work for others but just not for me. So the question is:

Why would you want to be with this guy?

I agree giving the man * you better marry by this date* wont work

Especially if y'all have only been "dating" (I use the term loosely - it almost sounds more like a "friends with benefits" thing) for a few months. I suppose I could see giving an ultimatum if you two have been together for years and years but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case.

:hello3:

Thank you everyone who threw in their two cents.:bighug:

I guess I should explain more clearly the situation now and then, but please bear with me if it would be hard for some of you to see where I come from, partly because English is my second language.:blush:

Ok. First my YM and I have been exclusively dating, if you would in US terms, and we live in the Islamic Country thus dating here is a bit different and it's not that common. Couples do not go out in broad daylight to announce their relationship, thus they mostly meet in closed areas or at the job or else just talk by phone.:dummy!:

So, me and my YM have really been together for the duration of 6 months exclusively and we see each other quite often. I know it's hard for some of you to understand that really knowing one another is restriced due to the limited possibility of seeing one another freely.

He still lives with his large family and it's not unusual for a 26 year old boy to do so here. Men rarely leave their families unless they marry, and even then they stay close to home.

We have very strong feelings for each other and he seems to think that everything is quite normal so far, but since I am the older, I need to lay down some rules that would probably wake him up, like taking our relationship to the next level. He did admit to me that he had learned a lot from our relationship and he became the committed person he never was, and he also added that he feels terribly upset when we have a fight or he doesn't speak or see me for a day or two.

After I wrote that post he kept on calling and leaving messages and he came over to see me, and I thought it would be fair enough to explain where I come from at this time, so I let him in and gave him my 2 cents of I am unable to go on like this without knowing if we shall be married as I feel that our relationship is not going anywhere.

The second day he also came over and we discussed it at large. He told me quite frankly that he is unable to take a positive decision in this regard, but that he loves me and that marriage is a whole other deal/subject and he doesn't contemplate it at the moment or anytime in the near future. THanks for his honesty.

I am really not begging to be his wife, it's just that I don't want to feel that I am there until he's ready to really get married to that other woman or even probably to me which is not a non-possibility. But I realized that some men have difficulty making such decisions, some don't.

I had been married before and all of my exe's were confident and really wanted to have the bliss of marriage, so I had to compare and think and I told him so; but then again, people are different.;

I know deep in my heart that he really cares for me, but as are for some men, they don't feel the urge to be married at any one time like us women.

Saying this, I guess I made myself clear. I am still with him at the moment, but I have no idea where this will lead. This is my perpetual anxiety which I have to endure I guess not for lack of self esteem or men for that matter, but because I really have strong feelings for this man .

I know that he had been doing for me things that are first in his life and I appreciate it as I also know that being the OW I am not to expect much from him at this point. Actually this may sound strange to some of you

I have those guilty feelings toward our relationship partly because I live in this very conservative society and partlly because I hate to see our relationship end and probably feel used when it ends without having him prove some good intentions, i.e making plans to consummate our relationship. But this is just ME

I welcome your comments and no judgements please:no:

Ah thank you for the extra information... it really changes the context of your question and advice.

Hi,
Some of you may remember my story with my YM some 4 months ago. In a nutshell, we have been together every single day and I really thought that he was my soul-mate.

However, as things developed it turned out that I became less contented over time and that's because it seemed that he was unwilling to go out with me as much as I wanted. He seems to be wanting sex most days, and although he does help me around when I ask for it, he is reluctant to make our relationship public.

So, feeling insecure, I brought the subject of marriage and he seemed less than enthusiastic and told me that he won't be able or willing to consummate our relationship wherever we are, but is willing to do so if and when we move to another country ( mind you there are no concrete plans of that other country at this point ), which is a long shot since it's not easy to do so immediately or in any foreseen future. I feel exploited at this point and a sex object, and that as long as we had sex he stuck around, and wanted - no, demanded it everytime we are together ; at times he would leave immediately afterwords which made me feel like an unpaid prostitute , although he himself pointed his quick departure to me, which to him was unavoidable because of work, family obligations, blah, blah, . . . . It sucks :eek:

Now, I have no intention of leaving my country, although I understand fully the reasons behind his wish to leave since this country is not his by the way but he lived here all his life with his extended family, but is not considered a citizen but an expatriate with less rights etc ( for reasons beyond this board ).

He seemed very immature to me when I tried to discuss our future, as I am unable to go like this without having the blessing of a marriage ( at least of a possibility ), and that's mainly because I felt that he was starting to do 'his own thing' without including me and also that he plans his night-stays before-hand with me which looks like he is not as impulsively connected to our relationship as I initially thought.

His family it seems won't accept me and he is still living with them but sleeps over at my place about 2-3 times a week. He used to keep in touch by phone with me quite a lot .

To make a long story short I told him that I do not feel secure in our relationship and that I would rather be married to him. He seemed to have had enough of this and now he's almost gone. Previously he told me that he would stick around for me ( I live alone and away from my children and have a few financial problems ) and he mentioned often that he was not interested in having kids. Was he less than sincere? I wonder

He calls me less often now, and I feel terribly depressed and at my all-time low. But what I told him was what I needed and felt I had to say for myself so that I won't have to suffer anymore or further along the line. I really really thought that he was my soul mate, but it seems life had other plans.

Does anyone have any ideas about this and whether I should have stayed and waited - but for what?

Editted to post a question for who may read this : Would you have stayed for the sex which was great by the way and refrained from mentioning a future????

Thanks for reading


I think you have a lot of growing up to do in relationships! You never let a man use you for sex if you want more. And that's what you did. Why? If you wanted a relationship and he was moving away from that, why did you try to use sex to bring him back? I don't mean to start a fight here, but that NEVER works! IMHO, you had nothing to stay for and every reason to leave him. Move on and find someone else to be happy with!!!

Hugs!

Ali

P.S.
If I lived in an Islamic country I'd be reluctant to have sex before marriage anyway. I wonder what Em has to say on this subject??? Any thoughts from the ladies from the Muslim world?

Ali

P.S.
If I lived in an Islamic country I'd be reluctant to have sex before marriage anyway. I wonder what Em has to say on this subject??? Any thoughts from the ladies from the Muslim world?

Ali

Please read my followup posts :fighting0087:

It's not as easy as you think and as you put it. I had in fact abstained from having illicit sexual affairs for as long as I can remember ( almost 18 years ), because of that. But what have I gotten in return? Oh, just loneliness. As for marriage, a divorced woman my age does not have the same chances as a younger, single woman in this society if at all. Go figure . . . ! :w00t:

My YM and I have been together for over 6 months now, and I believe that as of recently we reached a comfortable agreement. Sex aside, he has pitched in with financial help since I am not working now. In fact he's willing to do anything if I just ask and this tells me that he really cares.

By the way he is also having issues with young(er) women, and we met at a time in both our lives where he was looking for a mature woman and I had just come back from a visit to my kids ( his age )and heartbroken. Was it fate . . ?

Now about sex. We don't have sex as often and as haphazardly as before. We meet once or twice a week, and we talk forever on the phone. He lives and works just miles away from where I live.

What I really want is not marriage per ce, but more someone I can go out with as a couple and have a romantic dinner or go to the movies with and this I am unable to have given the circumstances. I guess you can't have everything. So, I am doing my best

As of this moment, I feel fine with the arrangement, but I am not sure what the future holds for us. I find him very concerned with my well-being and keeps in touch very often, which tells me that I am in safe hands.

I have not had these feelings with another man particularly the physical side of the relationship. I did go out with a few men after my divorce(s), but somehow we either never made it to bed, or it was unsatisfactory in some way or we never made it beyond the 2nd date, etc.

We are still adjusting to one another's characters due to this huge age gap and societal expectations and how we managed to get and did get around it . :monkeydance:

I still feel guilty sleeping with him at times, knowing that the future is bleak, but this is probably the lesson I need to learn at this time in my life.

I think you have a lot of growing up to do in relationships! You never let a man use you for sex if you want more. And that's what you did. Why? If you wanted a relationship and he was moving away from that, why did you try to use sex to bring him back? I don't mean to start a fight here, but that NEVER works! IMHO, you had nothing to stay for and every reason to leave him. Move on and find someone else to be happy with!!!

Hugs!

Ali


. . . And I was under the impression that I would at least get some sympathy. I was definitely not expecting any fight :rollingpin:

But thanks anyway

I just read this entire thread & I must say that I feel sorry for you buttercup! You keep making excuses for he factthat this man JUST ISN"T THAT INTO YOU. I'm not trying to hurt you, but reread your post & see how often you complain about his choices & behaviors & then you go back and find "reasonable" excuses for them.

Men who are genuinely in love get married when they want to. AND he isn't making excuses YOU ARE!

If you want someone to take you out then find that someone. STOP waiting around for this to turn into something.

NC means no contact. If you ask him not to call & he does & YOU answer teh you just don't want it to end.

You are keeping this relationship alive NOT HIM! But, because you have so many feelings for him you can't see it.

Please try and focus on you! Big hugs!

I just read this entire thread & I must say that I feel sorry for you buttercup! You keep making excuses for he factthat this man JUST ISN"T THAT INTO YOU. I'm not trying to hurt you, but reread your post & see how often you complain about his choices & behaviors & then you go back and find "reasonable" excuses for them.

Men who are genuinely in love get married when they want to. AND he isn't making excuses YOU ARE!

If you want someone to take you out then find that someone. STOP waiting around for this to turn into something.

NC means no contact. If you ask him not to call & he does & YOU answer teh you just don't want it to end.

You are keeping this relationship alive NOT HIM! But, because you have so many feelings for him you can't see it.

Please try and focus on you! Big hugs!


I guess you actually skimmed the surface(s) of my posts the way it sounds.

But thanks anyway for your valuable insights.

It's probably time to sulk or crawl into a hole, and hide from HIM and from the entire WORLD.

Those who get married when they want to is news to me.

I want to be married, according to you, and he will never marry me, so I should move on and find someone who wants to get married. How do I do that : ask that someone straight away on the first date, tenth day? or post an ad? . . .???

More of your valuable insight is appreciated

Those who get married when they want to is news to me.



I am going to a wedding this weekend......of my nephew. He and his g/f had dated for 4 years. Know what his finacee did? She told him last year: I'm not taking this relationship any further. I'll give you 30 days to put an engagement ring on my finger, otherwise, I'm widening my options." Two weeks later, she had a ring.

So there's an example of someone who is "getting married when she wants to."

my oldest pal from elementary school (we go back almost 35 years now-he's like a brother to me) was given an ultimatum 12 years ago by his live-in girlfriend. he was not sure she was "the one," but she got the ring. they got married. 12 years later, now, he is miserable and in love with someone else.... his wife doesn't know about the girlfriend and my friend (the husband) is too financially invested in the marriage to get a divorce. so he's unhappy, she's clueless and the new girlfriend is waiting, waiting, waiting for a man who is too chickens**t to leave his wife. the married couple have a 7 year age gap (wife is older) but the new girlfriend and my "brother" are the same age. eventually, my "brother" will have to break it off with the other woman and resume relations with his wife. they haven't had sex for over a year. he blames it on work-stress. even though their relationship is no longer sexual, my "brother's" wife still believes she has a perfect marriage and would never think, for an instant, that her husband is otherwise involved. sigh. very, very sad. i have wanted to tell her so many times, but truly, my loyalty is to him. i tried to stop him from marrying her...i knew they weren't right. but as long as he is willing to continue lying to his wife, i have to remain loyal to my oldest friend.

that's my story about someone who got married when SHE wanted to.

buttercup, don't sell yourself short by trying to be with someone who isn't 100% sure he wants to be with you!

Buttercup:
Obviously I upset you and I am sorry. By no means did I suggest you crawl in a hole & hide from HIM and the world.

Expectations can ruin a relationship and can also cause at great deal of anxiety. It's okay wanting to get married, but giving ultimatums NEVER work.

I did read your post and I see you pursuing a man that has told you he isn't interested in marriage now or in the near future. If you want to stay with him & just ride it out than that's great. BUT to stay in a relationship where you are constantly breaking up because you want marriage is very unhealthy.

Marriage isn't the answer to a fulfilling relationship! True love, respect & healthy communication are!

These are my opinions based on 47 years of been there done that & I've got loads of stories about friends that have been "pushed" into marriage & NONE of them turned out good.

If you love this man & you truly believe he loves you then everything that is suppossed to happen will. You can't MAKE it happen.

Again, hugs!
Lov

I think you have need of some life lessons, we all get them from time to time. Is that a fight? No, it's not. It's simply my opinion. We all when people come to the board for advice tell people what we think, not necessarily what they want to hear.

Sorry if I offended you. It will NOT happen again.

Ali

I do not want to highjack this thread. :hijacked: But this is just for one question. Suppose a guy has told you that he does not want to marry you by the time you have set as your personal goal. Should you issue an ultimatum "marry me or I will leave you". Or just plain leave the guy, no utimatum, no warning, to avoid the issues that VioletBlue brought up? :confused:

I am of the opinion, that if you don't want to hear other peoples views on a subject....then...don't ask the question. kinda simple huh?:rolleyes: If you put a question "out there" then be prepared to hear a lot of different views. Don't argue with people, just because they don't agree with what you "wish" would happen, (but is obviously not).

These wonderful ladies have gone out of their way to offer you some very sound and caring advice, its a shame you would rather "defend" yourself, rather then "just maybe" learn something? :ohthedrama:

I wish you luck with your relationship. Maybe he will magically change his mind and marry you, or, maybe YOU will see that you are worth so much more than what he feels you are, and find someone who will love you the way you truly deserve to be loved?:yes:

Buttercup, Sheila,
I think it all comes down to your own personal integrity and limits.
I endured much more with my "husband" than I ever have with anyone before.
Why? Maybe b/c we were married, my child's involvement, my dislike for admitting defeat. I do know that I will never do it again.
This is my life and, who knows, it could be over tomorrow. Guess it is up to each one of us how we want to spend it.
If life itself is a "gift" then why do so many of us take it and ourselves for granted and abuse so much of our time here.
I am my own best friend, we fight lol, make-up, and work it out the best I can.
To the original op, if it were me, which it isn't, I would be outta that situation so fast.
Everyone has good qualities in them. I am sure your y/m is no exception. I believe that many women focus too much on those good qualities, the ones that attracted you to him in the first place, and then make excuses for the qualities that cause so much pain b/c he is sooooo this or that, blah, blah, blah.
What advice would you give to your best friend if she were the one writing?
Are you happy with him most of the time? If not, you have your answer.
All the trying to understand "his baggage" is, in the long run, extremely unproductive not to mention time consuming.
blessings, TD

Sheila,

I believe that if "marriage" is a goal than you are putting the cart before the horse! If you are in a loving relationship and the natural progression is to get married and one party is totally oppossed then I quess the dilemna would be what's more important...the person or the piece of paper?

Don't get me wrong I'm all for marriage & I do believe that the "paper" is validation & credibility. I wouldn't use an unliscenced plumber or if I did I'd sure know that if he did a shoddy job I shouldn't be surprised.

If I were in a long term relationship and I was under the impression (by open communication) that marriage was in the cards than I would be expecting it. When? Who knows we all grow at different times. If I was proposed to & it got dragged out forever I'd certainly be concerned & would openly & honestly want to know why the hesitancy.

Buttercup is in a relatively new relationship with a man that has expressed his reluctance to get married. Geez, never mind get married the guy barely takes her out!

Anyway I believe that with a healthy relationship ultimatumns don't happen & if they do well then there's a need to look deeper at other issues.

I have a term for engagement rings that are given due to constant pressure from woman...It's called "A SHUT UP RING"!

I wouldn't want one nor should anyone accept one!

Marriage and courtship are not universal ideals. If we are living in America (or the West), then we are apt to look at marriage and courtship as the possible end of a series of romance based steps. However, in many countries around the world marriage it is a much more pragmatic event. Marriages are arranged and a goal in and of themselves. I know several couples who married and didn't ever meet their spouse until their wedding day. There was a time that arranged marriages accounted for the majority of all marriages in the world.

We tend to assign our own feelings about courtship and marriage from a purely western lens and I'm not sure that is always appropriate.

I think having an end goal of yours being marriage is perfectly acceptable. However, no matter what your goal is... make sure that your actions always support your movement toward the realization of that goal.

For example, if your end goal is marriage, then make sure that your romantic interests are also focused on marriage as an end goal. If they aren't, then more on to someone that is. Don't be led astray from your goal by spending your valuable time and attention on someone that doesn't necessarily share it.

I only have a small bit to add to the thread...

I personally would never give an ultimatum of marriage to anyone. I want someone to WANT to marry me on their own. But i'm not that big into marriage, so that's just me...

If i feel that person is comitted to me, faithful to me, treats me good and we have a great, healthy relationship, i would not feel the need to say "marry me or else." I know so many rotten marriages, and so many good "relationships," that i really dont have the need for marriage.

If its a religious or cultural thing, i do understand it more, but would still want a person who wants to marry me on their own.

I believe that if "marriage" is a goal than you are putting the cart before the horse! If you are in a loving relationship and the natural progression is to get married and one party is totally oppossed then I quess the dilemna would be what's more important...the person or the piece of paper?

Don't get me wrong I'm all for marriage & I do believe that the "paper" is validation & credibility. I wouldn't use an unliscenced plumber or if I did I'd sure know that if he did a shoddy job I shouldn't be surprised.

If I were in a long term relationship and I was under the impression (by open communication) that marriage was in the cards than I would be expecting it. When? Who knows we all grow at different times. If I was proposed to & it got dragged out forever I'd certainly be concerned & would openly & honestly want to know why the hesitancy.




Anything you want in your life should be a goal. Anything you want has to be a goal...or your chances of attaining or acquiring it are slim.

At this point in my life, I believe that if I am of the frame of mind that I want to get married and spend the rest of my life with one person, then I need to do what I can to determine if a dating partner is interested in marriage, sooner rather than later.

Honestly, while this is not a new notion to me, it is one that I am just now realizing takes some conscious effort to 'enforce'.

I've recently been on several dates with a man to whom I'm attracted in many ways. He opened the door to some pretty direct questions and some 'light' conversation about things like why haven't you ever been married (he hasn't either), do you want to get married, etc., and some discussion about our recent relationships (not overly personal or detailed). I was a bit surprised at the direct question but then I realized, hey, it sounds as if he's interested in finding the person for him to spend the rest of his life with.

And, really, if one doesn't ask, how is one going to know?

Or are you okay with just waiting and seeing and spending a year, two years, five years with someone - only to discover that s/he does not want to be married?

In my mind too, Lova, for most of my life has been the belief that the natural progression of a loving relationship is toward marriage. However, not everyone holds this same view. Not everyone wants to be married, regardless of how wonderful, loving, special, etc. a relationship is.

It makes sense to ask certain questions up-front. Me, I'm still trying to figure out how to do this.

Thank you all for your input :grouphug:

Ah thank you for the extra information... it really changes the context of your question and advice.

Thank you marcy. :kiss4:

I am aware that by no means you agree with me but you probably understand, at least partially, where I come from :kiss2:

Hi everyone "waves"

This is a recap for anyone who doesn't feel like reading the whole thread.

I had been with my YM for over six months now ( actually 7 already ) and even though nothing changed in the context of it and he is still reluctant to take our relationship to the next level, I have made a subtle pact with me/him that we would stay together, well, partly because of the physical part of the relationship as we both need it at this time, and for the friendship we shared throughout the duration of it.

What's new is that as this forum helped me see the BIG PICTURE and realized that what I felt all through since the start is what I should have known all along; but of course most everyone knows it's not easy to see it when you are IN IT. Better late than never.

To make a long story short I am not unhappy now because I had met someone else online ( three weeks ago ) and I have some strong feelings for him already, but I am taking my time.

I told my YM about that other person, who by the way is 8 years younger than me. Of course he won't hear of it, and I could have just opted to not tell him but it's just not me. I am really looking for a long-term relationship with this other man, and as I mentioned earlier, I am not about to waste more time hoping that something will manifest out of my relationship with my much ym . . .! ( how much longer can I afford to wait given that I am 53? )

Anyway, my other man is really God-send and we hit it off right away. He thinks the world of me, and it shows in his messages, voice ( when he calls me ) and the time he allocated to this relationship. I feel so happy and contented again.

He calls me on a regular basis and for the time being we are taking it slow. We would probably meet sometime in the future, but not sure when and how yet, but this is for another thread perhaps .

I guess I should move my messages to the LDR from now on.

As for my relationship with my much ym although we ARE STILL TOGETHER at the moment, I now do not expect or even wish him to change to accommodate my emotional needs. . .

BUT I had learned so much from this relationship, not the least of which is that I can love and be loved again, and made me realize that people move and change at their own pace but it also helped me see those OTHER fish in the sea, thus helped me meet my other man, and I can't be more grateful for this. It also helped me see that you meet/encounter the right person and/or circumstances at exactly the right time )

I will post more when and if anything will further develop in this regard

All thoughts and comments are much welcome and appreciated



Thank you for reading