Finally ...

Just for my dear old cyber-friends here:

It was a good run of seven and a half years, but we finally let go of each other a few days ago. After all the break-ups and reconciliations that happen when you're both loyal and stubborn and sad to give up on what was once so special, it was time. I finally did it, but that's just the luck of the draw. It couldn't be more mutual in essence, and he would have been gone two months ago - or perhaps even a year ago - had I not made such an extreme effort for one more go at it and activating his last lingering hopes that we still could do it :>

In the end, I couldn't do it any more than he could, even though I wanted to.

Of course, just because its the right decision doesn't make it easy. (It should, dammit, but it doesn't). But as I have progressed from total anguish to only partial anguish in 5 days, there must be hope - lol.

In some ways, it's harder for me and I am a little less okay than he is (although I wouldn't exactly call him okay - he's already drunken-dialed me once, and informed me that once he dwells on it (which is being put off until the logistical moving is completed today) he expects to be "overwhelmed" - there is no doubt that having had the experience of losing a love before to cancer is giving me a bit of a double whammy - as one experience triggers those visceral memories of the other - and it all begins to seem like one and the same loss. But I am trying to surf these waves as best as I can.

I don't doubt that we played it out for all it was worth and then some: I will never be tortured by "what would have happened". I know. And I'm working on feeling brave that we took the chance (rather than stupid that it didn't work out). But there is no trajectory that sends us off in the same direction going forward and too much time spent hitting your head against a wall .... in the end, that'll kill ya. Although we kept it up longer than one would have thought possible :>

Like I said, stubborn and loyal to the end.

I'm hoping it's not entirely the end, but maybe more of a beginning to a different kind of friendship that may open now since we are finally making way for the big, impassable boulder in the way and all the yucky feelings that come from fighting it. We can't meet each other's needs anymore as boyfriend and girlfriend, but we're talking and supporting each other and with a little time, a good friendship may come to be. Every little bit that I let go of the anger and frustration of the situation (and sure every inch is like the stiffest crowbar in the world) - is filling with appreciation for what I enjoyed, the person he is, and how much he still is a source of understanding and support (even through a problem that IS him, amazingly).

We'll see. I need to let the surges settle as moments of clarity easily slide into the less womderful place of "DON'T GO" and "IT'S ALL MY FAULT, I'll CHANGE" or "IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT AND YOU OWE IT TO ME TO BE DIFFERENT THAN YOU ARE" and so on. But that's the nature of now.

So far at least, he will hold my hand when I say it's unbearable and that gives me a little respite to keep working at letting go a little more. And I have my friend phone-circle on call in rotation for the rest of this week - lol.

I probably won't be around much on other people's threads for a while, because hey, it hurts, but I'm sure that won't last forever. And anyone who can absorb a little bit of my endless processing via pm or e-mail, I'm sure the real-life friends would love the break :>

It's a big job to listen to me until I'm done.

And please, if it's okay, no lectures on the no-contact thing. I respect people's right to their own opinions - in every way - but I need to do this in the way that is right for me and seven and a half years is a lot to un-tangle in 3-4 days. For right now, my instincts day-to-day (or minute-to-minute) are what counts and I'm deciding what I need to ask for and from whom. The cancer trigger is very real for me and I have to protect myself from a certain level of emotional and physical stress that can make me very sick if I don't manage it carefully. And he is supporting me in that - for right now. It's okay. When that is less of an immediate concern and the logistical stuff is all taken care of, then we will taper off from the occasional contact and work on healing alone.

I've always tried to be honest here about the joys and the wonderful things I found in us being together at 35 and 19 and onwards and also about the times when we struggled, but we never struggled because we didn't love each other - just because we couldn't make it work. And I'd never discourage anybody from embarking on such a journey. It was so worth it - even this hellish time.

Hoping to be back to a bright shiny world of possibility as soon as possible....

DS

(And don't worry. I swear there will be no more reconciliations this time at the last minute. The song has been sung)

I am sorry you came to this moment. I wish you strength and wisdom.

I too am sorry that this moment has come...

I didn't get to know you, or read your threads, or comments...
but I have suffered loss....loss of loved ones, relationships that didn't work out, although there was a great amount of love there...
and it is hard....at times torturous...
and I grasp a concept of your pain, I would say I understand, but no one can truly understand anothers pain...only ones own...

I wish you strength, happiness....and peace....

Thank you for sharing this, Desert Spring. I'm new here and don't know much of your history on Ageless, but as a newbie I just want to thank you for sharing your thoughts in current state--and for your clarity. Much respect.

Wishing you strength and the love of your friends in days to come.

Hoping to be back to a bright shiny world of possibility as soon as possible....

DS

Desert, this is my hope for you as well. Take extra special care of yourself right now.:bighug:

I know what you mean about how hard it is when you know it's the best thing in the long run anyway - it doesn't make it any easier. But you do sound very clear minded about it, and that's a good thing. I pray you don't have to suffer too long :(

Oh darn it DS Sweetie, I'm so sorry it has to hurt. I wish there was something to say to make it feel better faster, but we both know there isn't.

If you need to bawl, or vent, please don't hesitate to let me know. My shoulder's there.

Great big virtual hugs to you Darlin'

Dang...I'm truly sorry.

I don't always believe in the no-contact anyway. You do what you have to do, whatever gets you through it all.

My prayers are with you both. Stay strong...it will get better.

Paris

Awww DS... I am so sorry that you are in pain. Please let me know if there is anything at all I can do. I care about you so much. Do what you need to... what feels right to you... and know that we love you here and want to help you in anyway that we can. Much love to you

I'm so sorry. Be good to yourself and make sure you do what makes you feel best during the post-breakup period. And only you can know what's best for you!

Take care.

I just want to say that I am so sorry, DS. :( Know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Wow
DS, you are, truly a solid, thoughful, person and I know how hard this is for you. I know that I, personally, would trust your heart to do what's right for your life and well-being.
Brightest Blessings, ((DS))

I just had to write ...

I want you to know that of all the people who have written about their ageless loves, you have always been, to me, one of the most truthful and sharing of them all ... I realize that might be of little consequence to you at this time, but I wanted you to know that I always thought what your sharing was ever so real and honest ... and now, even to the end. You have shown a maturity and manner of sharing about your relationship that I admire you greatly ... and wish you nothing but working it through until you are both at peace ...

Please, and I mean this sincerely, if you need someone with which to share or vent or just use as a sounding board, I would be more than glad to offer my shoulder and/or ear. You are, when all is said and done, an amazing woman. Know that you are an inspiration to many ...

No one is ever the worse for a relationship such as many of us here have experienced if they know how much it has impacted their lives ... It's just some people don't realize what they had so they cannot know what they lose. I believe, from your threads, that you lived this time with your ym totally, and in that Desert Spring, there can be no regrets.

Big hugs ...

princessdy

I'm hoping it's not entirely the end, but maybe more of a beginning to a different kind of friendship that may open now

You know, DS, I truly believe this for you two. Your love was genuine, and after time it will morph into something grand into -as you say- a different kind of friendship.

When my exvym and I broke up, I hoped for the same thing. We had been together/in love for 3+ years, but been friends for 4-5 before that. When we broke up, it was the "friend" I missed the most. For us, it took a couple of years to come back around...but when we reconnected it was wonderful. The friendship WAS there in full glory, but it had the strength of reflection, and being able to laugh at things from our past together. The sting of wanting him as my lover was gone...replaced by a solid sense of resolution and joy for where our separate paths had taken each of us.

I wish you comfort and peace at this time, DS...I know that no matter how final things are in the absolute-last-breakup, it still hurts. You are a woman of great personal integrity, and you will make it because of that.

take care, focus on you, hug those that are near, grieve as you need. We're all here to listen if you need us.
K

:(

Im sorry DS.

I've always loved reading your posts..I just love reading your writing.

Your a very strong woman..strong for taking the chance in the first place, and strong for accepting that the time had come to end it. I hope that this does development into a relationship on another level once the time has been given to heal...

((hugs)) to you...I am truly sorry to hear things didn't work out the way you had hoped..

awww heck puddin' pop, i hate that you two are hurtin', that it came to this end.

you've always come across, to me anyways, as a really strong, level-headed woman and i'm positive that how you decide to handle it will be the right way for you both.

when you feel up to it, virtual cornbread for ya doll!

hell, maybe even a woo woo!!!

love and hugs, DS

T

"IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT AND YOU OWE IT TO ME TO BE DIFFERENT THAN YOU ARE"


DS therein lies the rub, doesn't it? After the initial chemistry and attractiion have faded a bit, what we are left with is what is at the core of the other person. To be truly in love with them almost forces us to love them "warts and all" rather than in spite of the warts. And as we all grow and change, hopefully those changes that affect the core of our partner become enhancements to our relationship and not detractors. We can certainly change our behaviors, but we can't be different that we are, as you pointed out.

Although you were mentally ready to make the split, it's emotionally harder to take the loss, for sure. All of us have been in shoes like yours and we know how it feels to be where you are now.

If you feel that I can be of any assistance to you, then please call upon me. I'm really sorry about the turn of events.

DS, I'm soo sorry!
I hope that you will stay strong and after a while I'm pretty sure that you will feel greater than ever... it just takes a while to get there.
I remember how good and free I felt when I realized that I was over my ex.. I felt like I was spring :yes:

I too am very sorry it turned out this way - and I hope that your past relationship will into something fruitful new.

I can imagine that there is a whole bundle of mixed emotions that you are going through, as in any grieving process - and I hope you find the courage and the strength to take it your own stride and in your own way. :)

You will be in my thoughts and as others said if you need to vent/share/process your feelings and thoughts, you will hopefully find a good and supportive feedback here from your friends and admirers.

Take good care of yourself /hugz

Ouch.

Too much craziness today.

Just churns and churns and churns.

If it slows down by a half, maybe I can even keep up enough to write about it.

Where's the emoticon for zombified wreck holding on by thread?

You guys need one ....

I'll find an emoticon for you sweetie.

In the meantime - :bighug:

DS I'm so sorry.... I pray for strength through this... and you always have great people here to get you thru it!!

I'm so sorry to hear your pain, DS. I'm sorry, too, to hear that this relationship has been so hard on you!

No judgements - we aren't in your shoes and can't tell you what is right or wrong for you to mourn your loss in your own way. Do what you have to do and know that we are here if you need to vent, scream, cry or whatever!

(((Desert Spring)))

Hey everyone,

I guess I should probably start a new thread (a lame metaphor for starting a new life, I guess), but not ... quite yet.

There's a respite now, so I thought I'd check in. Yesterday was just ... gone. One long scream for about 18 hours in a row. All I could do was compose ugly bomblets in my head to send to him or leave for him (he was coming over to get the rest of his stuff while I was at work). I did send/leave a few, but not the worst.

Brunhilda (my name for the witch inside) .... When it churns like that, I just want to see him howl. He did leave me a note, and at the end - it said "do what you need to do. I don't see Brunhilda. You can contact me anytime. I don't mind".

It's better today, although it's probably just a break. Yesterday was a bit of a blindside, as the stuff was supposed to be gone on Tuesday and apparently he couldn't. I had a friend lined up to come home with me to the emptiness, and then the clothes were still there (he'd managed the books, CD's and computer, but not much else). And so I had to do it again. Doing the unbearable once is impossible. Doing it twice is unspeakable.

Ah well, I guess that is my howl from him. As is the empty 1/2 gallon of vodka left empty in the recycling bin that was in the fridge and untouched on Tuesday morning.

One of the things he once told me is that "there is no cultural schema for breaking up with someone you love and who loves you". And that is very true. You just have to endure it with none of that "well rid of the asshole" stuff to compensate.

This is the only way forward. For us. Believe me, all we both wanted was to go backwards instead and back to each other, but it doesn't work that way. Even when I got him to admit that he would try ... again .... it didn't satisfy me for more than a few days. Because it never could have. It's a thing when you're so angry with someone who just said they would try again with you. It's because trying - which was all we both could do - was never going to be enough.

It's not the stuff: the details. Yes, there were logistical issues: he was up for a long stint in Antarctica next winter (maybe 6-8 months) and I didn't want him to be gone that long. The post-doc loomed ahead in the next 2-3 years with a move and then a tenure-track move 2-3 years after that and that all felt hard on me and guilt-inducing on him. I felt frustrated by the long work hours and the night-owl tendencies that we both have became more and more difficult for me to maintain in jobs that weren't as established as the old one had been. All that was real and not un-formidable.

But in the end, the connection between us, strong as it was and is (and I hope always will be in a different way) didn't translate to all that stuff. It buckled. We did all the same things, in the same ways, and they didn't feel the same. And you paper it over and call it a rough patch, but it doesn't go away. And with all the circumstances we had to confront, the only fuel you have is those feelings.

I found an old scribble from the spring of 2003 - a full year before he ever mentioned feelings of wanting to seperate - and I was already musing on some of these things. Although I obviously locked it away so deep that I didn't even remember it for years. I guess it took away the last lingering hurt of "who rejected who" first. (When you break up and get back together so many times - it sort've becomes an open question). We were the same, even in that.

When you're so used to helping each other through everything and sharing everything, there is really no good answer to how you break up when neither of you really wants to. If you try to buck up, as it were, and keep it to yourself, than it seperates you and chinks at the intimacy because of all you're not saying. And when you try to talk about it - well you can't entirely help each other to end it either. So it becomes a dance of trying to find the way, when there isn't really any way not to hurt each other.

What fills the space there is icky. Icky in different ways (he gets passive aggressive, I get talky and needy and pissed - but that's just a question of style). And then it's even worse. You're fighting so hard to keep something that looks worse and worse. It's just the stress and all you can do is wonder how the heck you're going to keep the rest of your life working. Much less confront all of the future challenges ahead with something so tattered, as much as you adore it.

We released it (for two and an half frigging years), by going to the precipice and returning. He would say he wanted to leave, I would say he couldn't, he'd say okay (since he didn't really want to anyway). I'd throw him out and he'd cry and not go (after asking for permission). I'd say I'd had it and he'd tell me I was over-reacting. That was how we made the pressure-cooker "work". In some ways, it felt less worse than the alternative. And there are times even now when it feels less worse, but it is. I would have become Brunhilda for real (not just now for a little while). And that would have been a travesty of me, of what we were, and of living life the way it should be lived.

And it wouldn't have lasted anyhow.

I hope neither of us would have accepted that as love (although sometimes I wonder. We kept it up a long time. Great fortitude, both of us). And loyalty.

Ya gotta love a man I can't love anymore.

This time, we both made it real. The night after the breakup, I sent an e-mail to his parents (in response to some weekend plans - they were flying in) saying we had broken up. I copied him (he was at home, and I was at work) and on receipt of it, he went out and rented a studio apartment in four hours that he could move into in two days. Which is a not inconsiderable feat in the Bay Area apartment market.

Because otherwise we probably would have fallen back into the undertow.

Anyway, Monday night I went bezonkers and went over there after my girlfriend launched into a mis-begotten spate of advice about how this wasn't as bad as the cancer. Missing the obvious point that it's exactly the same. It's the loss of love .... again. And I ditched her, and went looking for the only person who understands me. And he was there, admitted me, accompanied me home (at 3 in the morning) and snoozed on the couch before leaving to pick up the rental truck to move his things.

We break up weird, no doubt about it :>

But that's what we were.

And heck, I was half of it and that half I get to keep. And that goodness and capacity for love will return in some other guise. I sure wasn't expecting that one. (Maybe this one will be a 90 year old - lol - who knows?).

We ran our course ... as boyfriend and girlfriend. Ouch. But we did. An undertow only leaves you underwater again. I wouldn't trade it for the world. It just turned out to be more of an orchid than a carnation and not quite up to the amount of frequent transplantation that was required. Doesn't mean the orchid wasn't spectacularly beautiful or that you were wrong to stop and pick it up. There are times when it is right to embrace something fragile. Even if later you end up moving to a climate where it can't thrive.

I'll hurt some more and then a bit less I hope. It is just what it is. Ouch.

beautiful post DS.

i don't believe i've ever been that insightful in my life....especially in regards to myself.

even hurting, your words are beautiful and yes, i teared up. so moving. i'm honored to know you.

DS....you are amazing!!!
As for "Brunhilda".....you are allowed, sometimes. This definitely qualifies as one of those times!
I know what you mean about "not wanting to become her all of the time" though. Mine is "Endora" :o
Please take good care of yourself.
Blessings, TD

There is a little "Brunhilda" in all of us huh? In spite of it all, you are just a beautiful spirit and destined to love and be loved greatly.

Having been through a five and a half year relationship that ended in January, let's just say, I feel ya. There are some parallels in any ending. Love is love, it's hard to come by, and not easy to give up on.

When common goals shift, and an age-gap seems like part of the culprit, it's a bitter pill to swallow. There is just no denying life stages, and if one person isn't willing to make sacrifices in their life plan (and I'm not implying he should have...his chosen path is just that, nor am I implying you should have, God knows you made enough already!) then the relationship, by virtue of circumstances, crumbles.

It's going to be tough. But maybe not for as long as you think. I had what I thought was quite a lot invested in a deep friendship. When I realized that maintaining it was rather costly to my well being, I walked away and chucked it. Three months later, I feel pretty good. My passion for my own individual life is starting to emerge, and I feel hopeful that excellent things are around the corner again, and the friendship that felt vital to my existance, isn't. I miss him.

But I realize now that I missed myself more.

I had this very conversation today: I'm not the least bit sorry for this era in my lifetime: lots of joy and lots of pain. It enriched me greatly and made me a better person. I know he would say the same. That's good enough.

Hang on DS. And if some days being a Brunhilda is all you have to hang on to, that's okay too.

And by the way, the most healing thing I did for myself was adopt the above dog. She's been a life saver. She made me get out, she's made me new friends, she's made me exercise more, she's created some regimen in my life that was previously absent, and she loves me like nobody's business...

I know crying with you doesn't help much, but I am.

You be Brunhilda all you want.

I know crying with you doesn't help much, but I am.


As am I.

DS, I feel your posts in my heart as I read them. I wish you much strength as you go through these times.

SG

There are times when it is right to embrace something fragile. Even if later you end up moving to a climate where it can't thrive.

What an amazing metaphor, Desert, and exactly defines my relationship with my exvym.

And as kat said:
I'm not the least bit sorry for this era in my lifetime: lots of joy and lots of pain. It enriched me greatly and made me a better person. I know he would say the same. That's good enough.

After the space of time that bred perspective, I realized that it was definitely good enough.

DS:

You write so beautifully that it's a strange experience to feel the pain you evoke and simultaneously to enjoy the way you express it.

With so much insight and understanding you will inevitably become a bigger, stronger, richer DS eventually - but the time and space between here and there won't, of course, be any fun.

I'd wish you strength and grace but you seem all topped up - so maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing to let Brunhilda off the leash now and then.

I can't cry enough. I'm going to dissolve ....

I wish there was anything to say to comfort you but everything that comes to mind you know yourself.

So just lots of cyberhugs from here, it sucks that it never gets easy, "losing" someone you love(d) :(

/hugz

So sorry to read this, Desert Spring. It reminds me of something I read or heard, "It's hard to lose a lover, but it's much worse when you can't commiserate with your best friend because he IS your best friend."

My wish for you is that your next relationship flows as naturally as water and is as simple as this one was complicated, adding to your life, but never taking away from the happiness you felt in this relationship.

(((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))

Life is so very hard and so very strange...

The emotions felt within are transient but real....its the inner life that gives the outer its meaning.

Right now your reality is consumed with pain and loss....you know from your past experience that joy will come to you once again but its little comfort as your inner mind reworks and rebirths itself into this new reality....

I admire you so much, DS....I wish there was something I could do to help ease your suffering....

I wish you peace, safety and healing in your heart, in your mind and in your body....

And, I just have to say this: He is a fool not to have fought for you...whatever outer adventures he may embark upon, I am convinced that the adventure of a life with you, even in the sedate, stay-in-one-place and settle down kind of way, would be a far more meaningful and satisfying experience than any other kind of adventure one could experience through mere travel on this planet, change of job or location. I hope in expressing this I'm not making you feel worse. It's just my honest opinion that, although it appears to be mutual, it seems to me like he really dropped the ball here, with you, and he's a fool for doing so. You are such a treasure...and I know you don't have low self-esteem issues, etc., nor are you in need of that kind of support...you KNOW how special you are...and I know you think he knows this, too....in my opinion, he doesn't really or he could never put you through this kind of BS...and that's his loss. If I'm at all out of line by expressing this opinion, please let me know and I will edit the post. It's just how I honestly feel after watching your relationship grow over the course of these last 7+ years. You deserve better.

I shouldn't even try to work. I can't. A peppy co-worker started in with the "you-go girl crap", but fortunately another took a look at my face and hushed her up before I slapped her silly. I kept this stupid thread open on my desktop all day so I could look at it to remind myself that I exist. Back and forth every hour to go outside so I could retch my guts up. It's not even crying. It's worse than that.

I remember this. I remember it and I don't want it. It took so much strength and so much time to live through it once. I don't have the strength and I don't have the time.

I called him. Well actually I mailed him : just said I wasn't strong and I couldn't do it. He said "sure you can. It just isn't easy or quick". I told him he was wrong, retched into the phone and hung up. He said he assumed I didn't want a call back, but I can call anytime. I'm starting to hate him for this. I can call yes, but I can't live with it and I can't fix it.

It's not the age gap, Kat. It's really not. Many of his colleagues are quitting the field as they discover they want lives instead. The dropout rate is about 40%. The single-hood rate is about 90%. The slim few that aren't are already married and doing the family thing - which is never what we were about. There's no template for what we were trying to do. We both made compromises. But we couldn't maintain what we were compromising for. You can do it for something. But you can't when you are watching it slip through your fingers despite all those compromises.

It's fine, Ros. You may be right. I don't know. There wasn't anything that was too much to do to maintain the sunshine of the first three-four years. But after that .... I think we both fought - in our different ways. It's just that fighting (and I'm a good fighter) didn't restore it. There isn't a path forward without the glue.

I love him. But I don't trust the glue between us. Not enough to do what is required to live in the relationship as it would have to be - a place where where we both could be free. And it's so incredibly bitter because I never felt freer than within us.

I'm just all sticky with the left-over glue. He must be too, or why the hell wouldn't he mind psycho-stalker ex-girlfriend retching her guts out on his cell phone and consider calling back for more?

I'm so tired.

And I'm not strong ... at all.

That post just wiped me out emotionally...this is so incredibly sad. Im just sitting here with tears, gal.

I wish there was something I could do... I hope and pray tomorrow is a little bit easier, and the next day a little bit easier. Take it moment by moment, or even breath by breath.

Im without words...

DS, honey, you're not a superwoman, you KNOW you're allowed to grieve. Please don't feel bad about that part of it.

I wish there was some way you could get away, if only for a few days. Just maybe a change of scenery to help break the cycle of hurt.

Stop with the psycho ex girlfriend thing. You do love each other. And he owes you kindness if nothing else. If your relationship was anything like ours is, it's like touching base briefly to center you again, so you can go on. I think those times will get farther apart, till you can manage on your own.

I wish I could help.

DS...may whatever god or goddess of love, strength and peace wrap its almighty arms around you enveloping you so completely that the peace of healing begins to seep into your veins and bring you some relief....

*hugs and more hugs*

I wish there was some way you could get away, if only for a few days. Just maybe a change of scenery to help break the cycle of hurt.

Really good thought Bella has here. When the first two weeks after the breakup with my exvym were past, and the throwing up had slowed down enough for me to function, I went on a completely random trip across the US to New York City with a sweet, safe, male friend I'd met here on ageless, Shane (no relation to Tracy's Shane, btw). He was grieving the loss of his own 6 year relationship, and we were both wounded emotional wrecks. One night on the phone, we decided to fly to New York together just to get away from all the triggers and help each other forget...in a mostly platonic way. There was some affection; basically, it was just clinging to another human being for solace...but it helped, tremendously.

I would have gone alone, if Shane couldn't have come with me....just the change of scenary helped me over the first, horrible hump of emotions. I simply called my assistant director, had her find subs for all my classes, and left. It felt powerful in some way. When my exvym happened to call about some business we needed to iron out while I was in NYC with Shane, it felt powerful in some way to be gone...out of his sphere. I can't explain it, but getting away was the most therapeutic thing I did for myself in those early weeks.

Can you take a couple of days and just leave?

Unlike a relationship that was only a couple years old, we had been dear friends for 6 years....three of those in love. The longer you've loved/known/been with someone, the tougher the break. It literally felt like half my soul was ripped out of me against my will.

I also remember how much worse it felt when my ex said things to me in the early weeks to "help" me transition away from him. His intent may have been good, but I HATED that he seemed to have already moved on emotionally, while I was dying inside. It felt so patronizing, and I hated him even more for that at the time. In truth, he hadn't moved on at the time, as he tells the story now...he was throwing up too at first...but he had truly loved me for years, and didn't want me hurting so much even though he needed to travel his path without me; so, he tried to offer words of comfort. It was just that nothing could comfort me, I had to move through the grief whether I wanted to or not . Soon, his words of "comfort" infuriated me, and I just couldn't hear them, or his voice any more. That's when I decided for my own health that I needed no more contact with him, at least for a season.


I know you feel like all you can do is cry right now, but that IS all you can do at first. Be kind to yourself, DS. And get away if you can.

DS pain sucks and your pain is completely palpable. I'm so so sorry you are going through this. Hang in there... you are gonna make it.

A change of scene won't stop the pain completely, but I agree with Bella and Special K, it will change up the cycle to diminish it somewhat. Psychic pain is responsive just like physical pain in that way. A change of scene can act like a dose of morphine. It doesn't last, but it changes things.

I know you said earlier that you can't do the "no contact" thing. Honestly though, I think you should consider it when you are ready. My ex YM and I always valued our friendship above everything (or so we thought) but after grafting part of emotional self back on, I'm living fine without it. It's taken me some time, but I've actually grown back into who I am without him in a beautiful way.

You obviously aren't ready, but each point of contact right now keeps the threads of energy connected to something you are attempting to heal from.
Picking that scab over and over again will eventually become painful enough that you'll not want to continue that behavior. I'm of the opinion that you have to break communication eventually, and then maybe can go back later on and re-establish something when both parties have healed.

I know it's hard. In a way, with your husband, it was almost easier. There was no question about what you had to do. This is on some levels worse, plus you're older, and I think when you're in your 40's (I was when I divorced, I was sick for a year!) it's harder to reconcile that life will ever be "normal" again.

Here's a piece of advice: self-care. If I could go back and redo my post-divorce year, I would have taken far better care of myself. I would have eaten more, slept more, exercised more, gotten more massages, and managed my stress in a more productive way. I know I'm jumping the gun here, as you're in the very early stages of grief....but it's something to consider. Like you, I had a very hard time disconnecting with my ex husband, and I had to see him because of our daughter. He was already remarried in a few weeks of our divorce. Awful.

Don't push yourself beyond your capabilities. Get a therapist. You need support. Don't intellectualize yourself or the relationship right now. It's reduced to a gut level, and you need help coping. Do yourself a favor and get it. Hugs, Kat

All I can say is 'Damnation, why does it have to be so hard?' I truly hope the 2 week rule is correct, that the heaviest pain is in the first 2 weeks.

Maybe the pain is like birth pains, your body is expelling the grief so that the light can come back into your life again. Remember, you WILL see the light once more, I promise. :prayer:

After my last relationship ended....I cried for almost three months, solid. Then miracuously, the pain stopped.

I then had the best 1-1/2 years ever being single. Going places with my girlfriends, Hawaii, skydiving, skiing - whatever trip I could.

Now I'm getting involved again.
I'm excited about the new relationship but......
are painful endings inevitable?

It will pass DS but it will take time. Consider greiving with the help of a therapist. There are actually ways to get through this with a feeling of completion.
Hugs, Goldengrl

Reading your posts, I am remembering one of my worst break ups.. It was after that when I really got so sick I never really recovered. I remember, too, that I just started to get angry at him for putting me through that. Like Karen mentioned, I also at that point just put a complete halt to any contact I had with him. It was hard, and I was pained with some of the best memories of my life and knowing I'd never have that again. But eventually, that pain did lessen, and I rarely even though about any of that past. If I did, it was just like watching a slide show without any particular emotion.

Coincidentally, now it's... hmm.. 10 years later, and I have had contact with him again. Now there is a feeling of friendship. Not even that. It's a feeling of being his acquaintence. I get the feeling he would like to start something back up again, but I don't even have a shred of emotion for him. I can joke with him, like I would joke around with a co-worker or something (and we would have our own little inside jokes at that), and it's good to laugh with him, but there is no love feeling, and no intensity of any emotion left. It's nice. I can't feel ANY pain.

T,
Your eloquent candor has always been both a source of encouragement and inspiration for Sal and I.

Over the years your relationship musings have caused us to pause and reflect on our own mutual emotional inventory.

And I must admit, your openness to address certain relationship issues has shifted our perceptions to sometimes discovering rude awakenings and sometimes rediscovering the sweet spot.

I know its probably inconsequential at this moment in time to know what far reaching and provocative changes your words can effect, but I want to express how grateful we will always be to you for opening our eyes in so many ways.

It is courageous to act on the truth, as you have done.

That doesn't lessen the pain, but I hope the strength which gave you reason to address the truth of the situation and act upon it initially, will also be there to draw from and steer you through healing yourself. In whatever manner best suits you.

Sal sends her warmest regards, empathies and big hugs.
We are always available for a chat or a call.
Whatever you need.

Sean

Hi,

Well, I'm okay. Well, no - not okay, exactly. But a little better. I can breathe.

Yesterday I took to my bed - like the Victorian heroines of yore. (What other cure for hysteria is there, after all?). And woke up this morning and wanted to move - however slowly. I walked over to the bookstore, with my legs under me, and went right to fiction (where I live) and not the goddamed relationship support section. And books came to me that I needed and that was good. Now I'm going to write here a little and then take the Sunday paper over to the gym. And I had a big Peet's coffee and it tasted good.

I remember. You die, too and then you don't.

I sat for a while - right out on the sidewalk with my coffee and my books (I need paper towels, too, but first things first, I guess) - and I thought about it. And the truth (for today anyhow) is that I have to take responsibility for it and for me.

Not in the guilty, weird way - just in the true way. Yes, we had something beautiful and real and it lasted a long time and I enjoyed the hell out of it. In something he wrote me once he said "it was a perfect relationship". Nothing is, of course, but I know what he meant. It was gossamer. It was magical. Nothing had ever been easier or more effortless in my entire life. And I know why we tried to kick fate in the teeth to keep it. Anybody would have, really. I said something to him about being the kind of person who has to tilt at windmills all the time. He just said "isn't everybody?". Well, yeah.

But in the end, to meet all those challenges - which just are what they are - I need something sturdier than gossamer - entrancing as it is. We did okay, well better than okay, under a certain set of circumstances, but when they changed - as they're always going to do - I need a certain kind of support. That's just how I am and I don't even hate it. Because I can't hate me. Life isn't supportable that way and there's no reason to do that to myself over what I can't and won't change.

And he can't give that to me - as guilty and inadequate as I know that makes him feel. I tried a million ways to make it clear what I needed, and it's not that I'm not damned eloquent when I want to be : it's just that that's not how he's made and he isn't able or willing to change that anymore than I am.

I just want to start all over again and not **** it all up this time, but the truth is that it just goes the same way again and brings me right back to here. I either need different circumstances, or a different person to live through those circumstances with. It's not him.

Not for me.

I'm still really grateful for what it was. At the time, it was just what I needed and how often does the universe send you exactly what you need? I was so ...lucky. And smart enough not to screw it up for a long time. I got out of it everything there was to get.

But there isn't anything more to get. Or not anything worth having. I could probably buy another postponement, some more guilt and inadequacy, maybe even some compromise he shouldn't make.The glue is still that strong. I heard it on the phone last night.

But just because something is sticky doesn't make it sturdy. And the gluey, icky, tattered shards of us is not what I need.

It doesn't make me happy, but I have to own it. It didn't fall on me from the sky on above - even though it feels that way a lot - it came out of who I am and who I have to be.

I kept insisting that it had to be there. That that's what the glue meant. But that isn't what it means. It just means that it makes it hard to stop tilting at that particular windmill. I don't want what I actually can have so I have to start wanting something else.

You can't destroy someone else because you need something they can't give you: an un-makeable compromise or a level of verbal, emotional support that isn't them. Sure I can follow somebody all over the country or the world while they do what their vocation demands for the next ten years, but I can't do it without feeling that strong hand holding me up through all the mundane crap. And for me, the things that did to support me, were not - are not - strong enough.

It felt, exactly, like clutching onto gossamer, when you need a rope.

No rope. Not ever, a rope.

I'm thinking a lot about my late husband - since in a way - one love always takes you into the next, doesn't it? - and remembering how much I chafed at .....all that sturdiness. Because that's what that was. Indispensable, suffocating at times, but full of rope. And I know why gossamer looked so appealing, and in truth, under less demanding circumstances, might have stayed appealing for a much longer time. But when the **** hits the fan, as it always does sooner or later, I need someone who will tell me what to do, however infuriating that may feel at that time, and who will get in there with me and hack it out. Without needing to gently and lovingly step aside to leave me to my own devices, as E always will. And has to. And it's a lot. But it's not the right thing for me. I need what I need. And it is as right for me to be that way as it his for him to be his way. They're both wonderful capacities for love. Just not the same.

I can almost live with that. At least, I'm getting closer to the day when I will.

As I read your post, I am reminded of my most recent relationship, which always came down to the exact same thing. He would say periodically, and even on the very last day we were together, "I can't give you what you need."

And it is heartbreaking to hear that out of the soul that you wrap yours around, the person who seems so dear and so loved and loving in return. But that's really what it boils down to in the end. I guess I take solace in the fact that he DIDN'T say, "You can't give me what I need." Instead, he said, "I've always loved you...I love your hands, I love who you are, I love how you care for people and how sexy you are, your intellect and your humor, and how I feel when I'm with you." But he couldn't be there for me. I didn't take it personally, and I'm glad that you are able to sort through it enough to find that it's not personal either. So many women would take it as such.

He just couldn't give me what I needed, which I always felt like was to be loved in a way that made me feel like I was first in line.

For now, me being there for me is fantastic. I hope for you it becomes so too DS. I'm glad you're better today.

Kat, please have mercy on me. After I wrote that, I had to lay down for an hour and ache all over. Feeling fantastic is not quite on the agenda.

The "momentum" of getting better is also the momentum of getting further from him and I am not in a rush. You and Special K are both making me feel hurried. I have to be here. One week after the apocalypse.

I didn't say that "he didn't make me feel like I was first in line". There was never any question of that. There wasn't anybody else on the line. It's just that that wasn't enough for me to do everything I had to do for us to be life partners.

And after almost eight years, there is nothing left to do but be life partners .... or not. We already did everything else.

DS, you misread me, but I understand that you are fragile right now. I was trying to relate my own experience which seems vaguely similar on some levels, and perhaps that was wrong to do. I appreciate that this is a horrible, painful ordeal. I do.

I said "me being there for me is fantastic." I did not say "I FEEL fantastic and I hope you do too, have a nice day." What I meant was that being supportive to myself (with the help of therapy) is the best I can muster right now. Three months down the road (for me) I do NOT FEEL fantastic, but I do feel better, and some modicum of sanity is the best you can hope for in the days to come, given the circumstances. I, for one, am not attempting any kind of rush job here. Grief is grief, and one should go through it in whatever way is appropriate and right for the individual. It's always easier for someone sitting in hindsight than the one having a meltdown. I don't believe in rushing the process. There's no real way to do that. And right now, just getting through a day is a lot of work, trust me, I get that.

What I said (in an apparently lame attempt to relate) was that I didn't feel first in line. However, these are your words:

You can't destroy someone else because you need something they can't give you: an un-makeable compromise or a level of verbal, emotional support that isn't them. Sure I can follow somebody all over the country or the world while they do what their vocation demands for the next ten years, but I can't do it...

I read that as a person (E) who is putting their educational goals, their own ambitions, and their inability to communicate in a supportive manner (and along with that goes their unwillingness to do something about it i.e. through counseling) as not putting you first in line. (Individuals within couples who make those compromises always amaze me, both in terms of sacrifices, and of the work they are willing to do...) If I am projecting, I apologize, but that's how I see it. I didn't mean nor imply that there was another woman in line or anything other than his own life. Certainly, your insight is far superior to mine since you've lived it, and I realize that the complexity of relationships is never easily put in black and white. Nor am I trying to assign blame, for that is useless. It just was what it was. As you explained, he wanted out, you wouldn't let him, he wanted out, then begged to stay, etc. But the trend was that he wanted out. Even when a person wants out, a person doesn't want to let go of something great, with a known history of happiness, growth, comfort and stability. And what you and he had was great, it just wasn't, as you've pointed out, sustainable...for all the reasons you've discussed. But you had a great run, and that's worth a lot. If we experience real, true, honest to goodness love, whether or not it lasts 8 weeks or 8 years, it's a wonderful thing.

Again, I am sorry for your pain. Take care of yourself as well as you can.

It's okay, Kat. Damn straight I'm fragile. And perhaps I shouldn't be flaying myself out here like this, but it mostly helps me, so I am. And I guess I will preserve the right to tell my story in the way I believe to be true.

I get what you mean about fantastic and thank you for saying I don't have to rush. Because I'm not.

What I said (in an apparently lame attempt to relate) was that I didn't feel first in line. However, these are your words:

You can't destroy someone else because you need something they can't give you: an un-makeable compromise or a level of verbal, emotional support that isn't them. Sure I can follow somebody all over the country or the world while they do what their vocation demands for the next ten years, but I can't do it...


Fair enough. But what that means is different than what you are implying below:

I read that as a person (E) who is putting their educational goals, their own ambitions, and their inability to communicate in a supportive manner (and along with that goes their unwillingness to do something about it i.e. through counseling) as not putting you first in line. (Individuals within couples who make those compromises always amaze me, both in terms of sacrifices, and of the work they are willing to do...) If I am projecting, I apologize, but that's how I see it.

You are projecting and FWIW that's not how I see it nor how I am going to see it. A long time ago, I swore that a boy of 19 who loved me would not grow to rue that love because of all it cost him and that swear still stands. It's possible, even probable, that I could make him do that un-makeable compromise. It's sticky glue. I heard it on the telephone last night. But I won't. I can't. What good would it be if we weren't both free?

It's just a gauntlet I can't cross. He *does* communicate in a supportive manner. I can't fault him for that and the counselor he was perfectly willing to see wouldn't either. It's just that it isn't enough to get me across the gauntlet. There isn't any unwillingness to do anything about anything. It's simply that there's nothing more he can do - within the bounds of who he is.

It may very well be that under stress I require an absolutely ridiculous amount of verbality and emotional processing (as y'all may have noticed - lol). Maybe it would be better if I were another way than I am. But I'm too old to live hating myself and I refuse too, so I'm just going to have to embrace myself and let it be.

It's very sad, but it's not about anybody's failures or about anybody's unwillingness. It's just about what can't be changed and shouldn't be.

Believe me, I'm as fond of "love conquers all" stories as the next gal. But it doesn't always, nor should it when the cost is too high. And the cost is too high.

DS.... I'm the last person to want to make you feel hurried...I'm sorry if my posts came across to you like that. You absolutely have to be where you have to be, and all in your own time. I guess when we (other members) read such a gut wrenching thread, our heart aches for you and we only want the best outcome. With good intent, we share what helped when we were in a similar situation, but understand that it doesn't mean it will help you. It's an offering of support, but can be mistaken as directives, I guess. Couldn't be farther from my intent.

I had so many people on ageless telling me to "move on already" after about 10 months...when I was still crying every day. The bond that my exvym and I had was strong, and I had to let go a centimeter at a time. I would never suggest that someone hurry up and move on, and I certainly don't suggest that for you. It was through that 10-month+ journey of mourning my loss that I gained clarity about myself, my life, and the past dynamics of the lost relationship. You can't rush that, it takes time. My input about getting away was born from the memory of how leaving my town for a few days helped break the thought-trigger-obsessing over him and what we "had" cycle for me. It was not the end of hurt, it was only a first baby step in my whole, long healing process.

I really only want you to be and do what you need right now to feel better. It will be your own path.
Best,
K

I agree that a relationship should offer freedom AND security/support. I'm sorry that in the end, it didn't offer up enough of that for both of you in balance, ongoing, because there certainly was enough love to go around, I'm sure.

I have found myself in your same shoes, where the support I was looking for under stress wasn't there. Sometimes it really was a lack or inability in my partner, but sometimes it was a lack within me, and therapy has provided a place to receive that when I had very little to give to myself.

Meanwhile, how are you feeling today?

DS~
I have just returned from a trip to read your post and am so saddened of the news of your breakup and the pain you are experiencing.
There is nothing I can say other than to offer support. You are so wise, so strong, I know your instincts will guide you through this.
peace,
Sophie

DS..
i have just returned also from a trip, i am so sorry to read this

I haven't read the whole thread but just wonder if it has to do with maturity or age? How much of the reason that you broke up has to do with his age? Or is it mostly about personality, your/his needs and growing apart? And I'm sorry you have so much pain. Breaking up is never easy.

Just wanted to send one of these your way...

:bighug:

It's hard to admit something doesn't work and walk away. I too have lingered many times in a relationship until I had nothing more to give to it.

Hi,

You can't destroy someone else because you need something they can't give you: an un-makeable compromise or a level of verbal, emotional support that isn't them. Sure I can follow somebody all over the country or the world while they do what their vocation demands for the next ten years, but I can't do it without feeling that strong hand holding me up through all the mundane crap. And for me, the things that did to support me, were not - are not - strong enough.

It felt, exactly, like clutching onto gossamer, when you need a rope.

No rope. Not ever, a rope.

I'm thinking a lot about my late husband - since in a way - one love always takes you into the next, doesn't it? - and remembering how much I chafed at .....all that sturdiness. Because that's what that was. Indispensable, suffocating at times, but full of rope. And I know why gossamer looked so appealing, and in truth, under less demanding circumstances, might have stayed appealing for a much longer time. But when the **** hits the fan, as it always does sooner or later, I need someone who will tell me what to do, however infuriating that may feel at that time, and who will get in there with me and hack it out. Without needing to gently and lovingly step aside to leave me to my own devices, as E always will. And has to. And it's a lot. But it's not the right thing for me. I need what I need. And it is as right for me to be that way as it his for him to be his way. They're both wonderful capacities for love. Just not the same.


DS

I understand what you are saying here. In my 30+ year marriage I once had the rope but because of his own issues he just couldn't "get in there with me and hack it out." And because of it, I couldn't stay anymore. It wasn't that he didn't want to be the way that you are describing, but it just wasn't in him to be the rope anymore...he had his own *stuff* to deal with and had disconnected the rope a long time ago. So I was cast adrift in that relationship for far too long. Spent too much time looking for the thing that used to be there to materialize once again.

So along with the loss of the marriage was the loss of all those expectations, the ones we all have to a degree. Mine were of growing old together, sailing off into that proverbial sunset together, but I had to give those expectations up or give up my mental health. Not a great choice to be sure but I made mine just like you made yours, because I HAD to. In my case it was for simple self preservation.

Letting go is a process and you'll move forwards and backwards along the continuum for a long time, unfortunately. But you know, to face the pain and to feel it and work through it a step at a time is befitting such a relationship that you had with E. The amount of agony is proportionate to the emotional investment. I guess it is relationship physics for lack of a better term.

I've been where you are and I'm still processing after a separation and divorce that took years because I couldn't face it. I still love my ex and I always will but I've made peace with what it was and what it is now and what it was becoming.

Hang in there, I'm pulling for you.

Best,
Bub

Thanks, Bub. That post felt good. I guess what we all really want is to feel ...
understood a bit. And I do.

The last day and a half has been surprisingly okay. I've certainly been forgetful and for lack of a better word, "processing" a lot, but it's felt somehow right to be here and more bittersweet than incredibly painful. Possibly my soul is just resting before the next bout (I wouldn't be surprised), but hey, I'll take it. Could be worse, could be a lot worse.

E and I are speaking on the phone each night - (we have a standing appointment at 11pm with an agreement to keep it up through next Sunday and then re-evaluate) and I'm happy to be free of the "call, don't call" craziness and just know that we will, and I'll say what I need to say until we hit the bottom of it. It does me good anyhow - somehow I seem to settle in just a little bit deeper into what I know is the right thing after each call, even with all the bits of undertow seeping around.

I guess it's a little sad, part of me wonders why in the name of God we couldn't do all this work before the stinking breakup, but the truth is that, even as much as it *is* helping, I feel strongly and resonate with the sensation that it still wouldn't be enough if this was anything different than it is: a hard breakup.

This is about the limit of what we can do for each other anymore. Just break up - however affectionately.

Yesterday had some joy. I found myself smiling a bit, went to dinner with some friends and of all things, flirted a bit with one of them. Not for real, just to remind myself I could. And smiled at someone on the bus later who asked for, and didn't get, my phone number. It felt incredibly weird, but not bad at all. Things didn't feel stuck - they felt pretty open.

What I wrote on Saturday still feels pretty true to me. I read it to him over the phone and asked him if he thought it was bull****. He said "no" - in a reasonably strangled tone. So I guess it isn't.

Today I am thinking about our belated reconciliation at the end of January and all that "recapturing the relationship of old" stuff. I guess what it feels like today is that somehow he wanted "that relationship" (which admittedly we created together and both loved) more than he actually wanted me.

Something about saying it was "perfect" - which is both sweet and romantic - also feels a little creepy. Like it was a frame in which I needed to fit, and if I didn't, it was easier to transport the framework of the "relationship he wanted" to some other hypothetical future person who doesn't exist yet, than to adjust it to whatever my reality was. Even though the frigging frame is "based" on me. Something about the template of either "we recapture the magic of then" or "it's not good anymore" - it doesn't leave you much space, does it? However lovely it is to have been a part of something so dear to the heart of someone else. And mine. I loved it too and I'm not denying that. It was very precious.

I guess I want someone who's willing to have a bunch of different relationships with me as things evolve: since it's still me and after all isn't that the point ... . It felt a little weird to be with someone grieving the loss of me (or at least a relationship with me) when I was still there right beside him as far as I knew. Was it really me he was grieving? Or just an idea about me/us that he had in his head?

I guess I felt frozen because I WAS frozen, more or less.

What was I supposed to do? Mourn the abscence of myself too? Go backwards in time? Try to imitate myself at 37 when I was 42? What kind of a demand is that to make of someone - however unspoken? How would it have been possible to satisy what seems to have been the only acceptable standard?

I spoke on the phone with an old friend and since I had stopped flailing and weeping for the moment, managed to hear a little of how things are going with her. She's become a mom of two since, and apparently it hasn't been easy at all, with murmurings about books to be written about the "dark side of motherhood" and serious marital stress. I asked about that and she said she thought it was okay now, but she was lucky he was willing to let everything change between them and around them and in them and still hang in there and work with her through it for alot of years. Because that's what it took - at least for her. And while (of course), it stung at the moment to hear that, how can it not? - it also felt pretty in tune with what was going on with me.

That however beautiful, a freeze-dried relationship is gonna have to have an expiration date, sooner or later. If it can only be one way, then it can only be for a while. Maybe a long while: this was not short at all. Maybe until crcumstances force changes. But I got really, really tired of hearing about how what "was" later - wasn't - what "was" earlier - when it was still me - then and now. It's being idolized and rejected at the same time - instead of just loved all the way through. Which is kinda what you need if you're not going to live in a bubble, no?

At which point, I sigh and say "But it was such a wonderful bubble. I want it back".

Well, yeah.

That's today's ramble ....

Vascillation....happens for a long time post break up. Seat belt, buckle it.

Your post today and Bubs reminded me of moments in relationships where similar things happened. After 12 years of marriage and lots of trouble and strife trying to work it out, my husband blurted out one day, "I just want the wife I married back again." The concept of growth and change always managed to cause him to shut down. That was the defining moment for me that my marriage was a relationship that was never going to work for me anymore. I had changed so much, and he couldn't. Seventeen years later, I feel like I'm not even related to the woman I was when I was his wife, and for the most part, he's exactly the same. Despite having a daughter, it was right for us to part company.

Then, in a relationship with an extremely bright man, after a year of dating and feeling enveloped in love for months, he made the following statement, "I'm not sure if I'm in love with you, but rather the idea of you, or someone like you." For me, with one sweep of a sentence, it was over, for all intents and purposes. I was so in love with this man, but I couldn't stay.

Point being, it's ultimately healthy to make excellent choices that are congruent with who you are, no matter how painful.

Glad you're getting a bit of a break!