Should married women change their names?

What does everyone think of this? Is this an outdated tradition? I appreciate any feedback!

Women shouldn't lose their identity and thus become an extension of someone else because they get married. In fact, here in Québec law states that women have to carry their birth name unless they were married abroad or before 1981. They can however append a "married name" if they choose to.

There are ways to be romantic, cute and in love that don't involve becoming Mrs. Roger Wilson (or whatever) as a sign of appreciation. :p

I had a young lady from the Republic of China that worked with me. She was appalled that women here change their name when they get married. And we think we are so progressive here in the US.
I wish we did not do it. When you get a divorce and change it back, everyone knows that you had a divorce. Men do not have to share that info if they do not want to.

Remember when Roseanne dropped the last name, Barr? She and Tom Arnold were married at the time if I remember. At various times she called herself Roseanne Barr, Roseanne Arnold, and finally just Roseanne. She said in an interview, "What's the point of keeping your maiden name? It's still some man's name!"

I have been saying for years, that if two people are going to get married, and any names are changed, they BOTH should change them. Make up a name!
No spot for that on the poll though.

Just outta cussedness, I think if I married Jonathan, I'd hyphenate our last names... my Czech name combined with his vowelly-challenged Polish name. Just to make people have to pronounce it!
Hehe. :D

~Val

no,don't think so.my husband likes to use my last name when we introduce ourselves to people,or do a guest sign in somewhere(like last nite at a powwow we went to). His name is much harder to pronounce then mine is.he thinks my last name is cool ...most the time i prefer the first name thing only,,,you know,like Madonna or Cher:)

I agree with everyone so far

And to be honest I was very surprised that when Courtney Cox and David Arquette got married, that she would agree to take his name -- at his suggestion no less. And they're a famous OW/YM couple, too which makes it even more bizzare.:(

Wow, this is great, everyone! Keep 'em coming!!

I just found out that my ym really wants his future wife to take his name. I kept saying, "Why, though?" and he couldn't respond, except to say that was how he feels. He kept saying it's "Important." Like my convictions aren't or something... I don't know. We have only been together for a few months, so it's not like this is an immediate concern for me or anything. But it may be a problem in the future.

I have been married before, and I kept my name. I have always been against changing my name for some man. Why does the woman always have to lose part of her identity, simply because her marital status has changed? I am always amazed at how many women do it, too. I remember when I was in high school, we had a debate on this in class. I stood up and told everyone how I felt, which was unbelievable since I normally kept my mouth shut. So obviously this issue is "important" to me, too.

Not that I judge anyone who does change her name. I guess I just don't understand, that's all. I suppose it is "romantic" but I think it would be really romantic if both partners did that, not just the woman.

PinkCat,

I've heard it said that traditions are a lot like plates; they're good to have and can be used for quite a long time, but a few of them are bound to get broken every now and then. This is one I personally feel should be broken and thrown out (just like a plate)since it's rooted in very archaic notions of women as property, and how this kind of "ownership" of women was merely transferred from being that of her father to her husband after she married. There simply isn't any good reason for this practice anymore.

If I were you, I would ask him to articulate more clearly and specifically exactly why it's so important to him that he take on your name if the two of you were to marry since you have clearly given him very valid reasons for why you want to keep yours. Of course if, as you mentioned, marriage is something that's not in the cards right now since you haven't been together very long, then there's no immediate need for this discussion. But if marriage does look like a distinct possibility in the future, it needs to be brought up. Because if he really loves and respects you, he wouldn't make a fuss over something like this. If it does bother him significantly...well that just might be the tip of the iceberg and could fortell a lot of conflict in your relationship. But hopefully the two of you will know each other well enough by that time to not be afraid to disagree and be able to work out your differences.

I know some very "modern" women who eventually give in and change to their husband's surname because it makes things less confusing when the kids start school. In the past anyway (may have changed), school administration used to take a very traditional view, and address all correspondence to "Mr. and Mrs." plus the child's surname. Of course, schools are never going to catch on to the number of single parent and multiple surname families out there as long as accomodations are being made to conform to their outmoded ideas!
My surname is easy to pronounce, easy to spell -- but even if it were not for those practical considerations, I'm keeping it!

There is nothing wrong with married women not changing their names :) I vote no :)

Thanks Sherwood for seeing my mistake!

Tyger...
HUH?

"Inigo Montoya:
You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means." ---The Princess Bride

~Val

If they want to..why not. I didn't and I won't.

... like mine did. i had one of those wonderful last names that the playground kids didn't even have to put thought into coming up with a million ways to tease. it was dumb and i honestly have no family heritage that i'm proud to show or anything, so i when i married i took my husband's name (to happily get rid of mine), and i've kept it post-divorce. it would be a lot different if i had a family name that meant something to me, like even my mother's maiden name (which traces back to a great grandfather that's in Who's Who of America - something to be proud of). i'd even rather take my ex's mother's maiden name, that it could be passed to our kids as he has extensive history on that side as well. instead we both ended up with last names that had no meaning to us because of previous marriages of our parents and so forth.

it's nice that i have the same name as my kids, too. that's one unfortunately side effect nobody has addressed. what name do the kids get if mom and dad have different ones? most people hypenate - but we can't really keep up with that. what happens when two people with hyphenated names get married? egads! but seriously, the kids always get the dad's name unless the mother is single when the kid is born, no?

is that just an almost exclusively followed custom that i've seen or is it even a law? if i had kept my name (had it not been sucky) i'd want my kids to have my name. especially post-divorce since, although their dad is still a big part of their lives, they live wtih me, i take them to school, i fill out all their paperwork and everything.... but then, i'm sure dad would be heartily insulted since he does more than his legal duty when it comes to financial support and spending time with them. there's no winning there, is there? and like i said, hypenation isn't really a good answer since in another generation it's gonna get out of hand REAL fast. :)

j

I don't see anything wrong with doing it if you want to. If Courtney Cox wanted to do it, it's her business.

I assumed my ex-husband's name when we married and kept it even after our divorce because I like it better than my maiden name. obviously, I will not keep it if I get married again, I will probably revert back to my maiden name, or use my new husband's name.

I, however, don't think that a woman should feel pressured to change her name just because her guy asks her to do it. It should be totally up to her.

It's up to the woman and the couple... I don 't think a woman should be forced if she honestly doesn't want to.... If the man loves her enough then they will accept that.... I am getting married and I am going to take his name but I am going to slash it with my maiden name to keep both.......

i vote "no"....changing your name when you get divorced is a pain in the butt....make life easy and keep the one you have....

IMO, if there are children involved, it's more convenient for everyone to have the same last name, whether it's a hyphenated name that the entire family uses, or whether she adopts her husband's name legally or outside of work. I ended up taking my ex's last name, which I didn't particularly like, and reclaimed my own name after the divorce. My family's name is unusual, and that was an important, and positive part of my identity for years. Next time, I plan to keep my own name at work, even if I adopt a different last name legally.

Because of the stigma women of color face when their kids have a different last name than they do (sorry, but...people still think ugly things when they see that!), I became a "hyphenate," so that people would know (well, presumably) that I was married when my daughter was born. I also did it because I'm really proud of my maiden name, which is from a town in Buckinghamshire, England which I visited in my teens, and which has a long, proud history here in America, too, despite its rarity. We know the 17-year-old indentured servant who brought it to America left from Liverpool in 1698--we've got the passenger list from the ship and everything. His first name was handed down to all the firstborn males in the family to this day as well. Unfortunately for him, I had a daughter, and then quit!

But I think it's up to the individual, really. I've kept the hyphenate after the divorce for my daughter's sake, too, and the ex actually prefers that for some strange reason. He wanted me to change to his last name initially anyway, so I guess he gets some kind of weird satisfaction out of the fact that I've kept "attached" at least in that way, even after I left!

Well now I feel it should be a option.but you shouldnt be made to.I went back to my maiden name but when teachers call I am known by my childrens last name I dont mind since I realized that I made the name the name doesnt make me

Why should women alsways have to adjust to the men? It's just another subtle way to express male dominance.

I am against changing my surname if I ever get married. At 18 yrs, I added my mother's maiden surname to my current one (i.e. my father's). Most people were against it but I am proud of it.

The problem is that even if wives keep their surname, children will still take their father's. And even if they take both, then what happens when the children get married? They end up with 4 surnames? At some point, some surname has to be dropped! But why women always have to give up on something for the sake of others?

I am taking Joel family name when we get married, and I will be very proud to be mrs. Z
Joel's familyname is Friesian. Friesland now belong to the Netherlands, but still they are a proud people who try very hard to keep their history alive!!! (I'm reading the friesian history now)

I don't have any real history behind my name, so for me it will be a great honor to have his name!!!

One of my best friends got married last summer and her husband took on her familyname.
Reason for that was that he had the most commen last name here in Norway:
Hansen. :D

Joel and I will be the only two people in Norway with that family name and that makes it even more special to take on his name!!!

I had a young lady from the Republic of China that worked with me. She was appalled that women here change their name when they get married. And we think we are so progressive here in the US.
Interesting.

In all Muslim Middle-Eastern countries, women do not change their name after marriage. But then you will find a minority of women, who adopted the western practice of taking on their husbands' names under the assumption that somehow it made them more modern.

The retention of family names by women, is related to female inheritance patterns. During the Middle-ages women had no share of inheritance, so it didn't really matter what name they took.

Honestly, the guy has nothing that makes him better than his wife so that she should take his surname, whilst he takes his father’s name.

If it is a big deal, i can't imagine what would happen with other bigger things...

And if this is an 'ownership' issue, then they shouldn't be with a man.

And besides, when a man asks for marriage, he is asking for committment and is also asking his woman to join him, he is not forcing her.

If it is a big deal, i can't imagine what would happen with other bigger things...

And if this is an 'ownership' issue, then they shouldn't be with a man.

And besides, when a man asks for marriage, he is asking for committment and is also asking his woman to join him, he is not forcing her.

I feel that by taking on my loves name, I tell him that I want to "belong" to him for life. He does the same by asking me if I wanna marry him.

I feel that by taking on my loves name, I tell him that I want to "belong" to him for life. He does the same by asking me if I wanna marry him.


Does that mean you agree with me? Joelstrouble? ;)

Hmm, I never considered it as being a loss of my personal identity to take my ex's last name. Probably because it is such a big tradition, at least here in America. I have to admit though, like jaye I had one of those weird last names that got easily made fun of when I was a kid. And I was the new kid at 6 different schools... standing up to tell the class my name was always an occasion for derisive snickering. :mad: Rotten brats!! LOL Didn't last long though because I was rather mean back then and got in a lot of fights. Anyway, back on topic ..... :D

I think it should be a matter of personal choice. I've had my ex's last name for more than half my life now.... my kids carry the name, my grandchildren as well.... to change it now would make me feel like I'm changing who I am. And I suppose that if I marry my boyfriend I'll probably just add his on to mine with the hyphen. To me it would be such a major hassel to have to change my name on everything. Checking, credit cards, ss, mailing... and on and on.

@ Iyami, that is a very interesting history on your family name. I've always been interested in geneology, but unfortunately for me, I keep running into stumbling blocks in my history. Stuff ancestors tried to 'cover up'. Ridiculous. Anyway, maybe your daughter will take up the passing of the name to her first son someday and it'll keep the name going.

Does that mean you agree with me? Joelstrouble? ;)

It does!!! :D

Soon to be mrs. Zuidema

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY

What does everyone think of this? Is this an outdated tradition? I appreciate any feedback!

No, single women should change their names when they marry.

It is true, Lynn, changing your last name does not mean you lose your personal identity

It is true, Lynn, changing your last name does not mean you lose your personal identity


Nor when you choose a name for a discussion group...

I have taken on the last name of my husband because I like the tradition and feel it symbolizes the union that is formed through the marriage. But, I do feel that it should be optional that the man could decide to take the wife's last name. And I definitely respect women who choose to keep their last name or hyphenate it. It should be a matter of personal preference.

I personally am glad I got rid of my maiden name. It was always mispronounced more often than it was correctly pronounced.

I have kept my ex-husband's last name rather than take Devon's. I wanted to have the same last name as my children. They were concerned that I would be changing my name, they are still pretty young at 6 and 8. Devon understood and was positive about that choice. His reaction helped cement in my mind that he loved my kids and cared about their feelings.

I changed my name to my husband's last name....because I wanted to. I guess it is all just personal choice. It makes me feel good to have his name...a way to proclaim that we are really one.

I personally can't wait until the day I get to change my last name...

Smith :confused:

Number one I can't ever write/sign it pretty and lastly everyone thinks it's an alias of some sort.

But if I had the same last name as my Son (which I don't :( ) I would most definitely keep it until he was 18 and out of the house.

I think a woman should change her name, but purely for romantic reasons, lol.

I chose pronounciation reasons in dropping my maiden name. My maiden name was long and Italian. . .it took me until the 4th grade to learn how to spell it, nobody could pronounce it. I couldn't wait to change it. Unfortunately I married a man with a horrible German last name which I really cannot stand and since the custody thing isn't over the divorce isn't over so I haven't gone back to my maiden name yet. I've seriously considered just changing my name over to my new pen name, the first name is what mostly everybody in RL calls me and the last name is something like Caden's so it won't be much of a change over once we're married!! :D

I spent the happiest years of my life married to a man 15yrs. younger. I had been through some terrible violence and found it difficult to trust men. When he proposed to me he said that he would feel honoured if he could take my last name as his name. He said he would be proud to be called Mr. (my name). He wanted everyone to know that he was on my side and that he was glad I hadn't given up on love, that I'd had the courage to fight on.

I felt so loved especially since it was something men were usually embarrassed to do (in those days anyway). I had never had a man treat me like I was someone special. For some reason it also made me feel extremely sexy! He helped me heal and he gave me back my sexuality. Taking my name was so powerful because it was the OPPOSITE of the controlling behaviour I'd experienced. It was VERY romantic!!!

If I ever love again and marry I'll probably keep my own name. I wouldn't expect another man to take my name. But I will never forget the man who did!

Yeah....I like the idea of the couple choosing whichever name they like. In my case, like a few others who posted, my maiden name was difficult to pronounce and I liked the simplicity of my husband's last name. My sons have the same name and my grandkids, so I like keeping my ex-husband's name.

If I remarry, I have no idea what I'd do. But I like the options of the couple choosing either hers or his. But I doubt a new man would opt for my ex's last name! LOL

In regard to choosing a new name with each generation, it might make doing genealogy a bit harder. And I am not sure either what happens when the children of hyphenated names marry each other. How have they solved that one?

It is an outdated custom though to take the man's name and is kind of like property, but we are used to it so I would never be offended by the idea.

What does everyone think about the man taking the woman's last name?

Does anyone know of anyone who has done this?

I don't think I'd have a problem with it.

I knew a couple who both hyphenated, but in a really deliberately funny way. So he was John Smith(his name)-Doe(her name), and she was Mary Doe(her name)-Smith(his name). which cracked me up. I also know a couple who were hyphenated identically--so that they both had his and her last names without the "cute" flip flop. And on Hopi, for centuries, and sometimes today, the wife retained her name, and the kids got her name, not the father's. They're matrilineal up there. In fact, they also were more interested in first born girls--still are--than first born sons, because the women own all the property up there. So...having a girl means you'll be able to pass on the traditional plots of land and houses you inherited. Having a boy means...he'll move into his wife's house someday, leaving Mom without that extra man around the house to help with the fields and all that, that she inherited. Very different mindset!

I wouldn't....

I would take on my husband's last name from that day forward, but all my accounts and cc and anything I have in my maiden name up to then will remain the same. If I don't have to change any of it, i won't.

Its purely for romantic reasons and symbolic reasons as White/R has stated, it really doesn't make or break a marriage, does it. I'm more concern with him being happy with me and vice versa.

Paris

I was married for 15 years, didn't like my maiden name, couldn't stand my ex husbands new wife (she's been a horrible step mother to my daughter) so I kept my maiden name mostly just to BUG her...you have to do whatever you think is right for yourself in this case..my daughter didn't care either way...but my ex husbands wife did care...which is one of the reasons I just left it alone...ahh, revenge can be sweet sometimes...hehe. :eek:

Phil said if we get married some day, he'd take MY last name if I wanted, my married or maiden name....

Got to love those liberated YM ;)

Phil said if we get married some day, he'd take MY last name if I wanted, my married or maiden name....

Got to love those liberated YM ;)

I think that's great Bubblee! :)

I'm not religious and to me marriage is an advertisement to the public that a couple have decided to devote their lives to each other. The only purpose of being officially married in my eyes is to share the same last name and traditionally that means the woman assuming the man's name. I can't wait to be married to my guy and share the same name :)

"What does everyone think about the man taking the woman's last name?

Does anyone know of anyone who has done this?

I don't think I'd have a problem with it."


I think that is a great idea, Lacosteman. It sounds like you will be a wonderful husband someday.

Wow!!! I just read several responses to this thread and all I can say is....."WHERE HAS THE ROMANCE GONE????" Unbelievable! Look how complicated we have become. :-) This is my opinion of course, but there is nothing that makes me more proud than to take my man's name the day I get married! I can't wait for that!! And believe me, I use my last name in my career quite a bit! I can't wait to be able to tell people that I am now married so my name will be Mrs. Blankitty-blank from now on. :-) I just wish that my honey's Ex would finally change her name back to her maiden name....drives me nuts!! He has a rare last name so it gets kind of annoying hearing her use HIS name.....it's like O.K. I know it's a pain in the A** to change the name back, but seriously I WOULD!!!

Back to the subject, I have absolutley no problem taking my man's name. :-) I think this whole name thing came about mainly because of the feminist movement. In my man's culture it is customary for the woman to keep her last name and attach 'de' and his last name at the end.....that is nice because you don't necessarily loose your last name......but then it's super long. :-)

Wow!!! I just read several responses to this thread and all I can say is....."WHERE HAS THE ROMANCE GONE????" Unbelievable! Look how complicated we have become. :-) This is my opinion of course, but there is nothing that makes me more proud than to take my man's name the day I get married! I can't wait for that!! And believe me, I use my last name in my career quite a bit! I can't wait to be able to tell people that I am now married so my name will be Mrs. Blankitty-blank from now on. :-) I just wish that my honey's Ex would finally change her name back to her maiden name....drives me nuts!! He has a rare last name so it gets kind of annoying hearing her use HIS name.....it's like O.K. I know it's a pain in the A** to change the name back, but seriously I WOULD!!!

Back to the subject, I have absolutley no problem taking my man's name. :-) I think this whole name thing came about mainly because of the feminist movement. In my man's culture it is customary for the woman to keep her last name and attach 'de' and his last name at the end.....that is nice because you don't necessarily loose your last name......but then it's super long. :-)

There are a lot of things that should make you more proud than taking your man's name.

You are who you are, not an extention of him.

Just wait until the first time you go to make a large purchase together and the salesman ignores you. Or you make more money than him (he's older than you) and you go to get a mortgage and they put his name on first, because he's "the man". (You couldn't get it if it wasn't for your income.) Or anything similar to those scenarios.

What is so romantic about losing the name that you had for the first 20+ years of your life and becoming like his property? The one I really hate at weddings is when they use his first and last name, so she loses her whole identity. "Introducing Mr. & Mrs. John Smith". At least make it "John & Jabe Smith".

I dunno. Don't you already honor him enough by saying the vows and wearing the ring? Why do we have to go a step further than they do and change our identity? It's not like it's required in the U.S.

I changed my name because I hated my initials with my maiden name. I'm not really big on my married name either, but haven't bothered to change it.

I haven't decided if I will change it again, but if I do, it will be to leave the past behind me and start anew. Not because I think it's romantic or it makes me proud.

It's just romantic, thats how I see it. I don't see it that I am loosing my identity, thats just silly!! When you get married, the two of you become one and there is nothing shamefull about that. Of course the wife is not an 'extension' of her husband.....they share the same last name because they are together completely, in every way. See, I believe that the man is the head of the household.....YES the woman's input is critical and just as important as the mans.......but in the end I believe that the man should make the decision based on the best interest of his family. All my views and beliefs are based on Christianity, so many of you may not understand me. I will re-iterate...I will be very PROUD to take my man's last name. I also hope to be a stay-at-home mother, I guess I'll get knocked for that too.......
Personally, I feel sorry for the man who gets put in a situation where his fiance decides she doesn't want his name, it's sad really.......

"What does everyone think about the man taking the woman's last name?

Does anyone know of anyone who has done this?

I don't think I'd have a problem with it."


I think that is a great idea, Lacosteman. It sounds like you will be a wonderful husband someday.

Hi Everyone,
Thats my thoughts xactly.Feel the same as you.Have offten thought if,it was possible.
Realy and turely,not sure....guess I'll cross that bridge when come to it.


The Shadow

It's just romantic, thats how I see it. I don't see it that I am loosing my identity, thats just silly!! When you get married, the two of you become one and there is nothing shamefull about that. Of course the wife is not an 'extension' of her husband.....they share the same last name because they are together completely, in every way. See, I believe that the man is the head of the household.....YES the woman's input is critical and just as important as the mans.......but in the end I believe that the man should make the decision based on the best interest of his family. All my views and beliefs are based on Christianity, so many of you may not understand me. I will re-iterate...I will be very PROUD to take my man's last name. I also hope to be a stay-at-home mother, I guess I'll get knocked for that too.......
Personally, I feel sorry for the man who gets put in a situation where his fiance decides she doesn't want his name, it's sad really.......

I'm sure you'll be very happy.

It's just romantic, thats how I see it. I don't see it that I am loosing my identity, thats just silly!! When you get married, the two of you become one and there is nothing shamefull about that. Of course the wife is not an 'extension' of her husband.....they share the same last name because they are together completely, in every way. See, I believe that the man is the head of the household.....YES the woman's input is critical and just as important as the mans.......but in the end I believe that the man should make the decision based on the best interest of his family. All my views and beliefs are based on Christianity, so many of you may not understand me. I will re-iterate...I will be very PROUD to take my man's last name. I also hope to be a stay-at-home mother, I guess I'll get knocked for that too.......
Personally, I feel sorry for the man who gets put in a situation where his fiance decides she doesn't want his name, it's sad really.......

Well we are all entitled to our views, but in my household we are a board of directors. :p I have kids and where they are concerned, I am the Chairman of the Board of all decisions. My say is the last and final one. Period.

A name is just a name... it matters not.

I loved this that Kristin posted "There are a lot of things that should make you more proud than taking your man's name."

The fact that Devon valued my kids' feelings, more than his need for us to share the same last name, not only makes me extremely proud, but is also terribly romantic. :)

It's just romantic, thats how I see it. I don't see it that I am loosing my identity, thats just silly!! When you get married, the two of you become one and there is nothing shamefull about that. Of course the wife is not an 'extension' of her husband.....they share the same last name because they are together completely, in every way. See, I believe that the man is the head of the household.....YES the woman's input is critical and just as important as the mans.......but in the end I believe that the man should make the decision based on the best interest of his family. All my views and beliefs are based on Christianity, so many of you may not understand me. I will re-iterate...I will be very PROUD to take my man's last name. I also hope to be a stay-at-home mother, I guess I'll get knocked for that too.......
Personally, I feel sorry for the man who gets put in a situation where his fiance decides she doesn't want his name, it's sad really.......


BellaLove,

Your point of view is very traditional (some might say old fashioned) and I respect it. It is also probably part of the reason why you are in a relationship with an older man and vice versa. Many of the very younger men these days tend to have more liberated views as sons of working mothers, women's liberation, etc.

Maybe it can also be said that alot of the YM and the OW with YM don't much care about married last names for the opposite reasons...that tradition doesn't mean as much to them, conventions are less important, etc. I don't see that as less romantic, necessarily, just not as traditional. Heaven knows that it IS more traditional for age gaps to occur OM/YW than OW/YM and more accepted by society as well.

So I understand where you might think it's sad that I don't want Phil's name. If you knew that Phil's dad was an abuser and from a long line of alcoholics and abusers would that make a difference to you? He is ashamed of his family for many reasons I won't go into here. Not all of us have a heritage that we wish to celebrate.

In blended families names sometimes get worked around for practical reasons. I honestly don't think romance has a whole lot to do with it in general.

I can totally understand different situations....I am in no way saying it should be manditory for women to take the husbands name, God only knows how different the would is today. It's just whatever floats your boat........ I was just saying what floats my boat & that seems to be hard for some people to swallow.

It may not make sense to anyone here why it is romantic to me, and thats o.k.
I am very traditional, I cling to that because in todays world there are more seperations than ever and something is clearly not working.

I have heard of men taking women's last names and that just blows me away......I prefer the other way much better.

Women should do what they choose. If they want to change their name to their husbands, they should. If they want to keep their maiden name, they should. If they want to merge their last names, they should. (Although in a few generations, when Mary Elizabeth Morganstern-Oneil and Jonathan Walker Migulicuty-Mcaughlin get married and their child is Oliver Wendall
Morganstern-Oneil-Migulicuty-Mcaughlin we are going to need larger spaces on forms.)

The thing that worries me most about the world today is the overwhelming number of people that feel it is their right to tell everyone what they should do and their incredibly rude behavior of telling people that don't agree with them that they are wrong.

Yeah, I've heard of that before .... didn't some Native Americans choose a new name when they turned 13? Personally, I wanted to change my name to Evianne, but people told me that would be like naming myself Cohca-Cohla! :D

Hmmmmm, Cohca-Cohla ---- I LIKE IT!!!!!

Women should do what they choose. If they want to change their name to their husbands, they should. If they want to keep their maiden name, they should. If they want to merge their last names, they should. (Although in a few generations, when Mary Elizabeth Morganstern-Oneil and Jonathan Walker Migulicuty-Mcaughlin get married and their child is Oliver Wendall
Morganstern-Oneil-Migulicuty-Mcaughlin we are going to need larger spaces on forms.)
My maiden last name is complicated because it's French, and is 9 letters long. And, yeah... those spaces on forms were too short alot of the time, nevermind explaining it's pronunciation, it's origin... everytime I turned around! lol So... I took my hubby's last name mainly because of that, but even though it only has 4 letters...they always pronounce it correctly now, but I STILL get, "Okay... is that spelled (4 different ways)! But, I do like 'wearing' his name, for the sake of romanticism, and even though it's been 1 1/2 we've been married, I still slip (although much less often) and use my maiden name. Old habits.


The thing that worries me most about the world today is the overwhelming number of people that feel it is their right to tell everyone what they should do and their incredibly rude behavior of telling people that don't agree with them that they are wrong.

Sadly, true. 1st Amendments rights, and all that, I support. But, yes...achieveing 'gracefully agreeing to disagree' is challenging; at some times, more than others, to say the least (the negative bane of diversity). But, I do try, for the most part. :o )

~Rose~

And, Rose, to try is noble indeed!

It may not make sense to anyone here why it is romantic to me, and thats o.k.


I get the romance in it, but if someone asks me why, I will not be able to explain it, just as I would never be able to explain love, but I know what love is :D

I can totally understand different situations....I am in no way saying it should be manditory for women to take the husbands name, God only knows how different the would is today. It's just whatever floats your boat........ I was just saying what floats my boat & that seems to be hard for some people to swallow.

It may not make sense to anyone here why it is romantic to me, and thats o.k.
I am very traditional, I cling to that because in todays world there are more seperations than ever and something is clearly not working.

I have heard of men taking women's last names and that just blows me away......I prefer the other way much better.
I just didn't want to argue with you because there are some things that you just can't TELL a person, they have to experience it for themselves.

I totally get why you see it as romantic. I did too when I got married at 20. And I'll probably mess up all my accounts and business materials by doing the same when I marry again. LOL! ;)

But, just like any other tradition, unless you investigate it's true origins and see the true intentions of why it was established, it's easy to be caught up in it. Once I found out, it took away a little of the romance for me.

Same thing as "Who gives this bride?" being said at weddings. I had that at my wedding, too. But if you know the real reason those words are spoken, it has very sinister origins.

Best Man:

As marriages were historically accomplished by capture (the groom would kidnap the woman), a warrior friend was often employed. This Best Man would help the groom fight off other men who wanted the captured woman, and would also help in preventing the woman’s family from finding the couple.

Bridal Party:

The bridal party has many origins, not the least of which are the Anglo-Saxon days. When the groom was about to abduct his bride, he needed the help of many friends, the "bridesmen" or "brideknights." The "gentlemen" would make sure the bride got to the ceremony on time and to the groom’s house afterwards. The bride also had women to help her. These were known as the "bridesmaids" or "brideswomen."


Wedding:

Although the aforementioned events were common, marriage by purchase was preferred. Quite often the bride was exchanged for land, political alliance, social status and/or currency. Indeed, the Anglo-Saxon word "wedd" meant the groom would vow to marry the woman – and that the bartered goods and/or currency would go directly to the bride’s father. (Side note: the very word "wedding" comes from the root term meaning "gamble" or "wager".) In short, a wedding seemed little more than the purchase of a bride for breeding purposes. Not a particularly liberated point of view.

Honeymoon:

Following the abduction, the groom would put himself and his bride into hiding – the Honeymoon – so that by the time the bride’s family found them, the bride would already be pregnant.

Veil:

Along with these kidnappings and bartering, there were also arranged marriages. In these, the groom’s family informed him that he was to marry…but they very rarely let him see the bride. After all, if the groom didn’t like the bride’s looks, he might not agree to the marriage. With this in mind, the father of the bride gave the bride away to the groom who then lifted the veil to see his wife of all eternity for the first time. (I have to wonder how many of these grooms voiced their reactions aloud.)


Women were chattel - nothing more - and families were relieved and even PAID to get rid of them.

Not so romantic, huh?

I couldn't wait to change my maiden name when I got married. My ex husbands last name works really well with my first name so I have kept it and also because I like having the same last name as my children.


I think people should only change their last name if they truely want to.

Just a sidenote: In the US you may give your children ANY last name you chose when they are born...they do not have to have the surname of either parent.
So if I wanted to give my child the name Brittany Spears I could if I wanted.....not that I want to :p think of all the problems with geneaology if more people knew they could do that..lol

Yes, Kristin, but you have your father's name to identify you as his offspring - which identified you as his property. To wear a man's name, be it one's father's or one's husband's, really is just a matter of personal choice.

Sincerely,
Cohca-Cohla

As marriages were historically accomplished by capture (the groom would kidnap the woman), a warrior friend was often employed. This Best Man would help the groom fight off other men who wanted the captured woman, and would also help in preventing the woman’s family from finding the couple.

Bridal Party:

The bridal party has many origins, not the least of which are the Anglo-Saxon days. When the groom was about to abduct his bride, he needed the help of many friends, the "bridesmen" or "brideknights." The "gentlemen" would make sure the bride got to the ceremony on time and to the groom’s house afterwards. The bride also had women to help her. These were known as the "bridesmaids" or "brideswomen."


Wedding:

Although the aforementioned events were common, marriage by purchase was preferred. Quite often the bride was exchanged for land, political alliance, social status and/or currency. Indeed, the Anglo-Saxon word "wedd" meant the groom would vow to marry the woman – and that the bartered goods and/or currency would go directly to the bride’s father. (Side note: the very word "wedding" comes from the root term meaning "gamble" or "wager".) In short, a wedding seemed little more than the purchase of a bride for breeding purposes. Not a particularly liberated point of view.

Honeymoon:

Following the abduction, the groom would put himself and his bride into hiding – the Honeymoon – so that by the time the bride’s family found them, the bride would already be pregnant.

Veil:

Along with these kidnappings and bartering, there were also arranged marriages. In these, the groom’s family informed him that he was to marry…but they very rarely let him see the bride. After all, if the groom didn’t like the bride’s looks, he might not agree to the marriage. With this in mind, the father of the bride gave the bride away to the groom who then lifted the veil to see his wife of all eternity for the first time. (I have to wonder how many of these grooms voiced their reactions aloud.)


Women were chattel - nothing more - and families were relieved and even PAID to get rid of them.

Not so romantic, huh?


I'm glad that the whole marriage process has turned out to be a much more respectful and pleasant experience.......in fact....even romantic! LOL

Yes, Kristin, but you have your father's name to identify you as his offspring - which identified you as his property. To wear a man's name, be it one's father's or one's husband's, really is just a matter of personal choice.

Sincerely,
Cohca-Cohla


this is very true, I hadn't thought of that angle. I looooove my last name, my father comes from Italy and theres nobody out there with my last name, unless they are related somehow. When I get married I would be willing to take my man's name in place of mine.....although I may end up keeping my last name and attaching 'de' to the end and having my man's last name come at the very end. This is traditional in his culture, and i would love to carry that on....eventhough it isn't my culture. It would be very cool to be able to carry on my father's name and my married name at the same time. :-)

It would save me a hassle if I could keep my ex's last name, but the way things works in Spanish cultures is that you do not lose your maiden name but just add your husbands last name to yours... for example....

Ann Smith marries Paul Jones... her new name would be Ann Smith de Jones.... by the prefix"de" means she BELONGS to Paul Jones. That is why I could not consider keeping my husbands name thus indicating I belong to him.

Exactly!!! That is why I wish his ex would get back to her maiden name. LOL There is a lot of honor in a name, and she does not deserve to have it considering everything she has done to him.

So "da" means "of" or "from" and "de" means, "belongs to"? Interesting! Guess that makes me "me da my Mommy de me" :p (Help! I obviously cannot stop myself - everyone put me on "ignore"!!! :eek: NO DON'T!!!)

As a matter of fact, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of you that put up with me when I am like this -- with particular thanks to those of you that "come out and play"!

I am sure he could demand she remove his last name from her name.


Oh yes he will.....but she will probably be a sh*t about it and refuse. He actually had a falling out with her father ( his ex-father in law) and took that opportunity to suggest that 'she' give him back his name. My guy has a very rare last name so it would be nice if she did go back to her maiden name.....I would prefer to be the only "blankitty-blank" in this town.

I will say that Americans are more casual about the whole name thing........I have learned just how passionate my culture and all of Latin America is regarding taking other people's names. It's amazing to know that I can trace my ancestors back to the early 1800's......there's something to be said about that. :-)

Funny, when I was married, Wife #1 really resented me being called Mrs. So&So because she thought SHE was the REAL Mrs. So&So. In truth, she was Mrs. So&So #1, I was Mrs. So&So #2, and it is highly probable that there will be a Mrs. So&So #3! :rolleyes:

Yes, Kristin, but you have your father's name to identify you as his offspring - which identified you as his property. To wear a man's name, be it one's father's or one's husband's, really is just a matter of personal choice.

Sincerely,
Cohca-Cohla
Very true. I wouldn't argue that. As a matter of fact, it follows my point.

And it actually is given to you at birth. Only when you become an adult do you have a choice.

For thousands of years, humans were maternalistic. At some point, it turned the other way. Men wanted to know that the kids were their's, because they wanted to keep their land, titles and holdings. Same reason a male lion will kill the cubs from another male when he takes over a pride.

**sigh**

I wonder what the world would be like had the women kept their power.

Anyhoo....I was just giving food for thought, that's all.

I'm very proud of my parents and I would proudly wear either of their names.

And BellaLove, Jeremy (understandably) feels similar to you about exes. He would at least like me to go back to my maiden name, rather than keep a name from a previous husband, once we are married. But he doesn't insist that I take his name. (But I know he really would want me to. Ironically, that would make HIM proud - to know that I would do that for him. That makes a little more sense to me. The man should be the one who is proud that the woman would take HIS name. I'm sure your guy feels that way, too!)

Just so everyone knows - I'm not arguing for no name change. I changed my name when I got married and there's a 99% chance that I will take Jeremy's name when we get married. No one should be judged for doing what makes them happy.

It just makes me realize that you should never blindly follow tradition. Just because it's tradition, doesn't make it right or wrong.

Just thinkin out loud.....

It's amazing to know that I can trace my ancestors back to the early 1800's......there's something to be said about that. :-)
OK, sorry to be a stinker here...

No, you can trace your ancestors NAMES back to the 1800's.

If this were a maternalistic society, you would know for sure, but since it traces mostly through the men, as father (uncertain), rather than the women, as mothers (100% positive), there's no way to know who all is in your family tree! Any man could have fathered those babies.

Sorry, just had to point that out. No real reason. Continue the discussion....

Exactly!!! That is why I wish his ex would get back to her maiden name. LOL There is a lot of honor in a name, and she does not deserve to have it considering everything she has done to him.


BellaLove ~

Aren't there children from his previous marriage?

Yes there are children, and I have heard about a million times how women want to have the same name as their children.....I understand that. But this woman is just plain evil & shouldn't be allowed to carry his name.......she cheated him, lied; her whole family lied in court so she would get everything (including the kids full time which is ridiculous considering he is the most amazing father) and took everything that he had worked his whole life to build. The guilt alone must be killing her......
His name stands for respect and honor.......she is not even close to that catagory.




OH! And on the tracing ancestors thing......to me its enough to have names, stories, and journals. The family tree is full!!! You should see it, its incredible......on my mom's side it has a few empty spots due to them being Americans and weren't keeping the record as thouroughly as my fathers side in Italy.

BellaLove,

I just want to caution you...every story has two sides. I know you love and trust your man with everything, but he still will put his spin on things - it's human nature.

My last bf told me a lot of things, which I found out not to be true once he died. Jeremy's ex tells lies about him all of the time. And I'm sure that some of the stories I've heard from him are a wee bit exhaggerated at times. Although I know what she is like first hand, I also see some things that he has done that would explain some of her behavior, too.

People do strange things in the privacy of their relationships and when held up to the light it could look horrible. But we weren't there when they were still in the dark.

Gawd, you remind me so much of myself when I was younger, it's scary. So, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you. I've just been there. I hope, for your sake, that our situations are much more different.

Yes there are children, and I have heard about a million times how women want to have the same name as their children.....I understand that.


Sorry, sweetie, I can tell this is a sensitive topic for you. I'm not sure if this is what you were saying above, I was just wondering if it would be confusing for the kids for their mom to suddenly have a different last name.

But this woman is just plain evil ... The guilt alone must be killing her......


One would hope so.

I just want to caution you...every story has two sides. I know you love and trust your man with everything, but he still will put his spin on things - it's human nature.

Gosh this is sooooooo true. Even our own stories are from our own perspectives and are therefore colored. She musta had some redeeming quality or he would not have fathered children with her, especially given that he is a wonderful father.

Her kids are reason enough to keep a name. I'm guessing their comfort means more to you and your fiance then something as fleeting as a name, right?

Also, I'm not up on laws everywhere, but I do not think anyone can demand that you "give back" a name.

I just want to caution you...every story has two sides. I know you love and trust your man with everything, but he still will put his spin on things - it's human nature.

People do strange things in the privacy of their relationships and when held up to the light it could look horrible. But we weren't there when they were still in the dark.

I believe that we can never really know what is going on or has gone on in another relationship - not even if we were flies on the wall. Because even if we were flies on the wall, we would not know the thoughts running through the people's minds or the feelings in their hearts.

This is why sometimes we look at others' relationships, or the ending of relationships, and just don't get it.

I am certain that some of our friends were shocked when my ex from So. Carolina and I broke up. And none of the friends that were 'his friends' when we first met - or his family for that matter - heard my side of the story. I separated myself completely when we broke up. So who knows what he told them about that night or what led up to it.

..

How many women keep the name of the father of their children after remarrying? I'd like feedback on this because I have never seen it.

Oh I totally agree with the 2 sides to every story scenerio...believe me, I live by it. I remember seeing his kids after the finalization of the divorce and they were heart-broken.....it was so sad to see. They couldn't believe how their mother lied, and they were there through everything........I know that it isn't 'her' side of the story, but seeing their reaction and talking to them personally was sooooo eye opening for me. To this day they have a horrible relationship with the Mom....they hate being with her; one is off to college in Sept. and she can't wait to get away. The other 2 that are left feel 'stuck'......it's so unfortunate.

In the end, I don't think I will give a rats *ss whether or not she keeps the name or not....yes it bugs the crap outta me; but I will be the only MRS. So-and-So.

Kristin : I don't feel picked on at all.....I like coming to this side because of all the knowledge that is shared here. :-)

It's nice to know that we can all disagree on some things, but still respect each other. :-)

Bella...I hope everything works out for all parties involved. My OG's ex-wife kept his last name because of the kids, my mother kept her ex-husbands last name until she married my father...so I guess to me it doesn't make a big deal.

For me taking the man's last name is not really a big deal. I love my last name (or shall I say my father's family name) because of the respect and prestige it holds in his hometown. I also want my children to have a part of that name as well. The way it's been down in my family is usually the last name is pasted on to one of the children. Like I plan on using my last name as my daughter's first name. My grandmother used her last name as my uncle's first name. My father's middle name is his mother's last name. So traditionally, in my family at least, we never lose the maiden name. I actually plan on using both my mother's madien name and my father's mother madien name as my children's first name.

Nu :cool:

Even though surnames were originally given to women to signify ownership, I like the way that premise has changed.

My husband wanted to share his surname with me. I don't suppose it really matters whose name we shared, though, truth be told, the romantic in me is a traditionalist.