Impotency???

What the Hell is THAT? :D ;)

On a serious note, this discussion was in another thread, but I thought we could explore it further here. My best friend was married to a man who suffered from sexual dysfunction for seven years. When she first started dating him, he wasn't the most attractive man, but he was kind, funny, very, very sweet, and just did anything and everything for her. For the first time in her whole life, a man loved and adored her, even her "imperfections". He also happened to make very good money, being the president of a hardware distribution company.

Anyway, they didn't have sex until after they were engaged. It lasted 2 minutes. She was like, "Okaaaay." She thought maybe he was just so excited that he just "lost it". Well, she confided in me how dissappointed she was, but that she really cared for him. So I told her, "Tell him what you need. Don't be shy. Show him what you want him to do."

To make a long story short, they married, she lived in the lap of luxury for seven years, yet sexually, things never got better. Apparently there's a high success rate for men who suffer from PE and seek help, but he never would. He didn't care at all about her sexual needs, although he provided more than enough for her monetarily.

She was faithful for a few years, then it got to her and she started cheating. I know, I didn't agree with it either. I told her just to get a divorce if she couldn't handle it, but not to cheat on such a good guy. Well, I guess she didn't want to leave the "good life" behind, and thought this was the best way. He was Catholic, and didn't want a divorce anyway.

Last year, she met a ym, 14 years her junior. He was a real firecracker in bed. She fell madly in love with him and moved out from her husband and into her own condo. They screwed like rabbits, but in the end, he left her for another woman. Now she's dating a real nice guy but they want different lifestyles and neither one can compromise.

I guess my question is, "What does a person who really, really enjoys sex do when they're in love with someone with a sexual dysfunction? Especially someone who won't do anything about it?" I understand that love can conquer anything, but some people need sex more than others, or is that really so?

I know that if something happened to Robin and he couldn't "do it" anymore, I wouldn't leave him. I'm committed to him as a life partner, and I couldn't imagine wanting someone else, but part of that is because the awesome sex we HAVE HAD makes us so very close. He and I talked about it once, like what would happen if I became a quadraplegic or for some reason couldn't "do it" anymore, and he said something like, "Well, after a year, I'd still take care of you, but hope you'd understand that I might get it elsewhere." Well, we got in a big arguement about it, because I told him if it were HIM, I wouldn't go elsewhere, and he didn't believe me.

What do you all think?

Just a note to Hadley's last comment over in the thread this stemmed from.... something to the effect of "why are we talking about OM, we're here to talk about YM!"

well.... i hate to say this, but even the best YM eventually become OM. i know, it's a crime against nature, but it's true. and some of us may even be with them long enough to see it happen.

j

BTW, just for the record, I am IN NO WAY condoning what Hadley wrote on the other thread. I thought some things she said were pretty awful. This isn't about that. This is about what someone who is in love with someone who can't give them something they desperately need should do. I guess that can even stretch beyond impotency. There are many needs.

I just never did find an answer for my friend. She feels ashamed and guilty, and I feel badly for her.

I married for better or worse......except for the exception of abuse. NO I would not leave my husband if something went wrong. There are other ways. There is oral sex, and masturbation, there is the intimate love that sex won't replace. Sure you can go out and have sex and more sex, but is it everlasting? Can it meet all your needs? Sex is sex............but true love is hard to find. How empty a person must feel after the hot sex isn't new any more, and the passion just isn't as strong. Then what go find another? Yea right, Dang that's just not for me.

The only real answer is that "it depends" (ha, ha -- famous social work non-answer) -- to be more precise, it depends on how important sex is to that particular individual who is doing without. And the degree of interest in the act of sexual intercourse varies from person to person.

Let's not forget that it is a basic biological drive to ensure the survival of the species, no matter what overtones society layers on top of it. And that can be difficult to overcome.

Can the couple work out some non-intercourse sexual activities that are equally emotionally/physically satisfying?

Sexual problems are among the highest success rates for behavioural therapeutic intervention; I'd go a bit further into why hubby was clinging to his problem so dearly, and so resistant to treatment. One of the first approaches to PE is to administer one of the medications that is known to cause impotence in non-PE men (slow things down!) -- simple but effective. I'm almost going to suggest leaving some relevant articles "lying around" the house where they can't be missed...........is that too obvious?

There are some very effective treatments available for sexual disorders; no one is a "hopeless case" as long as they are willing to seek help.

if he's such a sweet guy he should've cared about her needs sexually. but then again, i'm sure he found it embarrassing to have to seek help.

there's other ways to give her pleasure. Orally for example. did he try that?

It depends on the quality of the relationship. If they've always been there for me - then I will always be there for them - period. No matter what.

(And ummmm - I've been there, done that. Terminal cancer does not make a sexual whopee cushion towards the end).

If it was a relationship that was less solid, then I might work out a compromise where taking care of him was leavened with a somewhat open relationship.

It depends on the timeline too .... forever chronic illness is different than a contained period of time.

No categorical answer. It's up to the people involved to work something out.

But I'm generally not in favor of sneaking around, whatever happens.

Hi Polly,

I was going to put up a post about this, but due to moving to our new apartment, didn't get time. It's a very complicated subject and a real hot potato in a relationship.

While Bear and I have never had the impotence problem, his illness has affected his libido. Like most men he didn't know how to handle it and got defensive and angry and pushed me away so that he didn't have to think about it. We had a big discussion last spring and I told him to get help or get out. That was a wakeup call for both of us -- that it could have gotten so bad that we would even think of splitting up.

He went to the doctor and was put on a testosterone suppliment. He had problems with it and I joined an online impotence site on the recommendation from a friend to try to find out more about testosterone dosage and delivery systems. Hoo boy... what I found out about impotence was enough to scare anyone.

The main thing is, like your friend Polly, the husband who refuses treatment. She has nothing to be ashamed of or feel guilty over. She is the victim of abuse and that is a real tragedy for her.

I suppose most of you are like me and can forgive anything that a person is trying to fix. To refuse to go to a doctor and ignore your partner's need for sex and intimacy is a form of abuse. I spoke with men and women on the group who had good sex lives even though the man had permanent or intermittant erection problems. They worked at it as a couple and continued to be intimate (kissing, hugging, touching, petting.)

I saw far too many couples use it as a weapon. He refused to get help, she nagged or was abusive in return. Or it started with her being abusive and it was his response. I don't want to touch you...so I can't. I also saw husbands who were cheating who claimed it as a reason not to touch the wife they didn't love any more.

I met some really scary women who were furious that their sick husbands couldn't provide sex. I don't think any man could get it up for these honeys let alone their poor husband. The level of anger and blame in their letters was painful to read.

I met my friend who married the YM who needed the penile implant there. I also spoke with a man who had an implant that didn't work and ruined his penis so that it doesn't work anymore. Both are in happy relationships but the difference was that both partners worked to make sure that the intimacy was not lost. They still loved each other's bodies and kept their relationship sexual.

Bear and I learned a lot from them and from the angry ones. We had let intimacy slip and make sure to make it a part of our lives no matter what. I have a chest cold right now but he has been snuggling me and kissing my neck. When he was so sick we still showered together and kept up the touching and kissing. The pledge to keep up the intimacy has made us a much stronger couple, but it's something you have to do as a couple. One partner can't do it alone.

Polly, I know its scary to hear your partner say that he would take care of you but might get it elsewhere if you were disabled. The truth from my rehab experience seems to be the opposite is true. Right now Robin can be ****y, but most men and women can't cheat on a partner they love even if they have that partner's permission. It's a part of keeping the intimacy. If he can cuddle you and touch you, sex with someone else is far less tempting.

Let's face it, most of us with committed relationships with YM have discussed the disability issue and need to if we haven't. Our YM aren't stupid. They know there is a greater possiblity that they will have to take care of us at some point and they have accepted it as a part of being with us.

What we have to promise one another as far as the topic of this discussion, is to never use sex as a weapon. Never make it a reward or punishment. Never turn from intimacy if a full sex act isn't on the horizon for whatever reason. If we both keep sexuality as a gift we give willingly there is far less likelyhood that it will ever be turned against either of us.

Peace,
BA

Thank you all, for your thoughts, and especially to YOU, BA. For everyone's info, my friend regularly dressed in sexy lingerie, and when he was "finishing" so quickly, she started going to bed in a t-shirt with no make-up, thinking THAT would slow him down. It didn't help at all. She told him how much she liked foreplay and oral sex. He hated oral sex and was bad at foreplay. She suggested a sexual surrogate for him. He wouldn't even think about it. She DID leave books addressing the issue "lying around" but apparently, he never read them.

She had watched her mother marry FIVE TIMES, to totally abusive men, so she was absolutely determined to make this marriage work, however, since our teen years, she was always a very sexual person (I've known her since we were nine, we're two days apart). It has killed her that this marriage has ended up like this. He still wants her back. I think he has low self-esteem due to his dysfunction. He's great at business and making guy friends, but with women he's shy and withdrawn. He tends to go for controlling ones, although my friend isn't really controlling. She's an extrovert though, and even though she was a housecleaner like me for years, she favored hanging out with "big wigs" over blue collar folk. She always did love smart, educated people. She also was drawn to stability, having never had it in her own home. She envied me our whole childhood, and my parents took her with us on vacation almost every year. She really did try to be understanding about her husband's dysfunction, but being a very attractive and highly sensual woman (I used to think of her as his "trophy wife") she got hit on by a hot guy one too many times and just "snapped" I guess.

You're right, BA. It DID hurt me when Robin told me he would look elsewhere after a year if we couldn't have sex anymore, but I guess nobody knows for sure what they'd do if put in that situation. I can find many ways to be sexually fulfilled, but maybe Robin, at 24, doesn't know all the ways he could. I'm talking to a guy who "gets it up" literally every time I walk in, but I'm sure with age and time, that won't be the case. Maybe at 40, he wouldn't have to seek it elsewhere, as maybe HIS libido would be slowing down.

I hope he will someday be able to look at me and say, "Honey, even if you were paralyzed for life, I couldn't imagine doing it with anyone else." I mean, we ALL want to hear that, right? But to be honest, I'd rather he leave me first, then cheat on me and deceive me.

Well, this is what's so weird, Kat, Robin is one of those guys that ABHORS cheating. I mean, we were listening to Heidi Fleiss on a talk radio show, and she was saying that virtually ALL MEN CHEAT, maybe 5% don't, and Robin said, "That's NOT true! I'd say about 50% of all men cheat, and they are JACKASSES!"

I guess he thinks that if I was paralyzed (actually, he used the situation of me being comatose) that it wouldn't be cheating. I don't agree though. If he were comatose for a year or more, I don't care if Brad Pitt wanted to have sex with me, I wouldn't do it.

The thing about this impotency issue though, is that there are so many things to treat it, both for men and women. As BA mentioned, it might become a control issue for some, thus the seeking of treatment doesn't happen. From what I understand though, there are many treatments available for both men and women.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "Sex is the glue that holds a relationship together." It really does solidify the closeness two people feel. It's the one thing they can share with eachother that no one else can. It's sacred and precious, and neither partner should EVER take it for granted. That said, I also believe that partners should be there to carry eachother through the hard times. That means sexual dysfunction or impotence as well. When one is failing in that respect, the other should do what he or she can to bear the burden and find a solution. We'll all go through illness, weakness, mental breakdowns in some form or another in our lives. Sex can't always be excellent. Couples won't always be "in sync". It should be a part of the relationship that is nurtured just as much as communication and division of responsibilities.

Polly you have this sex thing figured out. Most people never do. It's funny how hard something so simple and so necessary is for most people.

Your friend's husband has some major problems. She can't solve them. She can't even help him. If he has low self esteem because of his dysfunction then it's his responsibility to find a way to either resolve the impotence or learn to enjoy sex in other ways. This is a selfish man and he's taking it out on her. He gets his and she gets nothing. Some loving partner he is... No wonder he wants her back, she was willing to put up with his selfish behavior.

Premature ejaculation can really be a control issue. He gets off, you get miserable. If a man won't get help and won't take care of his woman by what ever means then she should get a divorce.

Like you said there are a lot of treatments -- if a man is willing to let go of his ego and do what he has to do. Any man who puts the burden on his wife is an abuser plain and simple.

Don't waste a minute worrying about what Robin would or wouldn't do. Why borrow trouble? Right now he can't imagine being cut off, but things change and so do attitudes. :)

Peace,
BA