He didn't get the job, gutted.

You may remember I posted on here a week or so ago asking to keep fingers crossed for my OH who had had an apprenticeship interview at a big company.

Sadly he found out today that he had been unsuccessful. There have been a lot of tears, as this was the best chance of a job he has had since moving here a year ago, and a year is a long time to be out of work.

He has yet to phone for feedback but my sister knows someone who was on the panel and she has discreetly asked and it does seem that his downfall was his lack of socialising during the team activities. He does suffer from social anxiety, and while many of the other candidates knew each other from school he didn't know anyone, which didn't help matters.

I feel so low about this as I can see how much it is upsetting him. He's a lovely, intelligent, emotionally mature, sensible, genuine guy who is FINE once you get to know him but panics in formal and new social situations - so of course he is finding interviews almost impossible. After a year of being told thanks but no thanks, his confidence is at rock bottom and he feels that he is crap and useless, which is far from the truth. I wish I could give these employers a shake and tell them to give him a chance! If only they could see the real him then they would know just how amazing and capable he can be.

He's literally tried everything. Being turned down for Tescos is no fun. He's over-qualified for some jobs and yet can't get through the interview stage for the ones he could do.

I've talked to him about his social interaction being what is holding him back, it is SO hard to do this without sounding critical and it's tough because I love him just how he is and I don't want him to feel that he has to change but it's making him so upset that I feel I have to encourage something. He's joined St John Ambulance (the local voluntary first aiders) and is doing voluntary work, but I know he still tends to stay on the sidelines if he can. I don't know what to do to help.

Sorry getting teary again!

Im sorry he didnt get the job.:(

Some people need someone to teach them how to socialize, has he looked into some classes on how to do this, or a support group?

I am sorry about your bf. I am in the same boat you are. My bf also suffers from social anxiety, he is living in a foreign country to be with me where he does not speak the language and has no work permit. At the end of the year it will be two years without a formal job. :(

Every time the lawyer tells me "no work permit yet" I feel like crying. He teaches English to a few students and works editing letters. But not enough to support himself.

I suggest that your bf volunteers to do some work, so he could keep busy and little by little overcome his anxiety. Perhaps he could get a prescription for anti-anxiety medication. I personally do not want my bf to go that road but you may want to consider this.

Sometimes, it helps for him to go to a Temporary Employment Agency.

Temp agencies normally interview the candidate, and they really don't care if he has social skills or not. They are interested in his employable skills.

If they have an opening suited for him, he's sent out to the job and he starts working upon arrival at the company.

It would take the edge off for him to have to be social from the beginning, he'd get acclimated to the job and his surrounds and slowly open up to people around him.

This would allow him the opportunity to "learn" to socialize with others and become more comfortable.

All he has to do is prove his loyalty, punctuality, and attendance to the job so that the Temp Agency can send him out to another job.

Just a suggestion.
Sora

Sometimes, it helps for him to go to a Temporary Employment Agency.

Temp agencies normally interview the candidate, and they really don't care if he has social skills or not. They are interested in his employable skills.

If they have an opening suited for him, he's sent out to the job and he starts working upon arrival at the company.

It would take the edge off for him to have to be social from the beginning, he'd get acclimated to the job and his surrounds and slowly open up to people around him.

This would allow him the opportunity to "learn" to socialize with others and become more comfortable.

All he has to do is prove his loyalty, punctuality, and attendance to the job so that the Temp Agency can send him out to another job.


Wow, this is a great idea!!!

Sometimes, it helps for him to go to a Temporary Employment Agency.

Temp agencies normally interview the candidate, and they really don't care if he has social skills or not. They are interested in his employable skills.

If they have an opening suited for him, he's sent out to the job and he starts working upon arrival at the company.

It would take the edge off for him to have to be social from the beginning, he'd get acclimated to the job and his surrounds and slowly open up to people around him.

This would allow him the opportunity to "learn" to socialize with others and become more comfortable.

All he has to do is prove his loyalty, punctuality, and attendance to the job so that the Temp Agency can send him out to another job.

Just a suggestion.
Sora

I think I've suggested this before, and hasn't he already looked into it?

It IS a good idea though, although it doesn't mean he'll be guaranteed work every week. He could be sent on a job that's for a week, or a month, or 6 months, and he'd only be given one IF there's anything available that they feel he can do. But... getting a job placement every now and then, even if only a couple of weeks at a time would be better than he has now, right?

If he hasn't tried this already, then I would suggest he contact Jobwise. They'll probably ask him to send his CV (resume for our american friends ;) ) and then get him in for an interview and some tests on typing speed, etc. I worked with them for 2 years and I only ever went 2 weeks (when I was available) without working. Some of that was stuffing envelopes, but the place I worked doing that was friendly, relaxed and I enjoyed it. I also got moved to another dept in the same place working on the finance section because they were happy with me. I did almost a year at that company, with a couple of breaks.

You can get some crappy jobs (I did telephone marketing for a little while) but there's lots of good ones and they can sometimes become permanent, which is what happened in my first job and I was there for 4 years! Also, he can tell them what he is and isn't willing to do, and how much he is looking to earn.

There's plenty of other temp agencies, but I had most success with Jobwise.

i am sorry to hear he did not get the job...i can imagine his frustration.
but each time IS a learning experience, and it will fall into place.

sora's suggestion is an excellent idea!

Social Anxiety is a real phenomena and just "getting out there" is unfortunately not going to cure the condition. He needs to get some help to overcome this handicap, particularly if you feel it's so serious that it is getting in the way of him getting work. Of course, only if he recognizes this issue within him, can he get help. If he doesn't understand that he has to do something about it, then he will not improve.

Perhaps you can suggest practicing by play-acting interview scenarios, and critiquing him that way and/or asking some friends to come over and watch. Something to help him get over the "stage fright". If you do this regularly, I'm sure it will help him gain some confidence. He needs practice.

I have taught voice for several years and also I studied acting in college and many performing artists are very shy people who have to really work at overcoming stage fright, and they are successful at it. I, myself, overcame terrible stage fright, and was very shy as a child, and eventually was able to perform as a singer and also did some amateur acting, as well as eventually teaching individuals and groups. When I was younger, I couldn't get up in front of a group of people without my lips quivering, but eventually learned how to be relaxed and very cool! It's possible, but it takes practice and the encouragement of others.:)

Sorry to hear about the bad news. What a shame. SoraNoYume's idea is excellent. As to his shyness, what about him joining Toastmasters International? http://www.toastmasters.org/ One of my friends in Iowa has been doing it for years and it's helped her get comfortable in public situations.

My YM was quite shy and modest about his talents when I first met him online. And I helped relax about meeting strangers. Because of my encouragement, he was able to walk up to a man with a nice BMW and tell him that he had a great car and to invite him to check out a BMW autocross. Before that, he wouldn't have been able to. My advice was that if you feel uncomfortable about talking about yourself, instead ask the other person (who is more confident) about you think that they are interested in (like their nice car, their kids or dog). Most people love to have an audience to talk to about their interests and there are not many good listeners in this world. When my YM was starting the work that he does, in the beginning, I was the one who would walk up to other potential customers to break the ice for him. Now he is fine on his own and with a good reputation for what he does. He still doesn't like answering the phone, but fortunately I know a lot about his work and schedule so I am his unofficial administrative assistant.

Sometimes, it helps for him to go to a Temporary Employment Agency.

Temp agencies normally interview the candidate, and they really don't care if he has social skills or not. They are interested in his employable skills.

If they have an opening suited for him, he's sent out to the job and he starts working upon arrival at the company.

It would take the edge off for him to have to be social from the beginning, he'd get acclimated to the job and his surrounds and slowly open up to people around him.

This would allow him the opportunity to "learn" to socialize with others and become more comfortable.

All he has to do is prove his loyalty, punctuality, and attendance to the job so that the Temp Agency can send him out to another job.

Just a suggestion.
Sora


That is a great Idea. Our company does all of our hiring through temp agencies with most temp agencies if you work a temp-perm position you will usually get hired after three months.

Hi There,
You have gotten some great advice so I am going to take the hard line here.
If I were an employer, I wouldn't care what a potential employee's problems are. I would take the person best suited for the job and social skills are almost EVERYTHING in an interview or, in my profession, auditions.
No-one wants problems.
I say this b/c I personally have tons of social problems and fears but I HAVE to "fake it" or whatever in order to live.
You, unless you are a trained therapist, cannot do anything but love and support him.
He needs to understand that if he, I assume, must bring in a paycheck, he MUST figure out what he MUST do.
You will start sounding like his mother and eventually become depressed and nervous yourself if you try to fix his problems or support him indefinitely.
Resentment builds fast.
If you guide him anywhere it should be to someone who is familar with situations like his.
I am one of them and I HAD to figure it out...no-one was going to support me.
I know how harsh this sounds and I am sorry but, like I said, you already got the advice from the "caring" perspective. Employers don't care nor do they have to.
Blessings, TD

I don't think learning how to be aggressive in social situations is exactly a good idea, or if it means you are no longer afraid or socially isolated. It's just the opposite in fact. True confidence exudes kindness and understanding in treating people in social situation.

I think you must prepare yourself that your ym is going to need some assistance in finding placement, and actually, you *crying* over a lost opportunity is just going to pour gasoline on an already raging fire.

You might consider doing what I'm going to do this fall: move back to the big city, where there is lots of opportunity. Small towns and rural areas are naturally bad places to find work.

Ali

Social Anxiety is a real phenomena and just "getting out there" is unfortunately not going to cure the condition. He needs to get some help to overcome this handicap, particularly if you feel it's so serious that it is getting in the way of him getting work. Of course, only if he recognizes this issue within him, can he get help. If he doesn't understand that he has to do something about it, then he will not improve.


Yes, and at this point he should be evaluated as to if he has an underlying condition which causes his "social anxiety". With cognitive therapy and treatment, your boyfriend can lead a near normal social life. Feeling sorry for him is the worst thing you can do.

I'd sit down with him and say, "look, you've tried all these things to get work and it just isn't happening because you aren't able to hide your social anxiety. Why don't we stop trying to work around it and hide it and address the issue head on." And then have him get the appropriate mental health intervention...

If he works at getting a diagnosis and help, the barriers will start to fall for him, I promise you.

He's registered with three employment agencies and they've so far found nothing for him, he does call them every week but no luck. It was a good idea though! Just think the ones round here are a bit rubbish really.

Tinydancer I appreciate what you have said and I do agree with you. I've told him that I am not saying he is a failure and I do believe in him, but his problems with social interaction are holding him back and he has to accept that and either work on that issue or accept that getting a job won't be easy. And I know he feels that he needs to be working to help with the bills (and I certainly expect him to be doing all he can to do so) so I am sure that he will look into options, maybe counselling. A friend of mine does cognitive behaviour therapy and - while she won't work with friends as clients - maybe she can recommend him a therapist.

Actually I am the same as I was rather socially inept when I was younger but as you did, I learned to fake it. I have shown my OH a book which explains how confidence is all about learning to fake it, and explained that's what I did. However, it took me time and I have to appreciate that.

He does appreciate that this is an issue which is causing him problems in getting work, so I do think that he will be able to work on it. I tell him he's been brave enough upping sticks and moving nearly 700 miles to live with me, away from his family and friends, how much more out of your comfort zone can you get?!

If all else fails then I would certainly consider moving to the city as legallyblonde is... I'm not entirely happy in my job just now so I'd have no compunction in trying to get another elsewhere.

Good,
It's sounds like you are doing all of the right things.
Thank you for knowing that I wasn't trying to be mean spirited.....just been on too many gut wrenching auditions in my life lol
Now, as a teacher, I would pick a good dancer who is easy to get along with over a brilliant dancer with a b****y personality (ok maybe not if they were brilliant but a little better than the other lol)
You can learn techniques..I call it "faking" but it does, as you stated, work.
I will never be completely comfortable when I am out of my element but I do a damn fine job of hiding it lol.
Blessings, TD

So sorry that he didn't get the job, it is just another kick in the gut when you are already down but now is the time for him to take control and fight back. As has been mentioned perhaps some self help courses or motivational course. In one of my bleaker moments I read 'The 7 habits of highly effective people' and found it to be be thought challengeing and provocative and it helped me make sense of a few issues I was having by facing them and dealing with them. The longer he has no job the more unemployable he becomes and perhaps he needs to look outside the square as to what he can/ is prepared to do. Maybe something simple like shelf packing at a supermarket, just to get him out of the house and motivated again. As I tell my daughter any job is better than no job and nothing needs to be permanent.

At my 25th high school reunion, one of my girlfriends had remembered me as the shyest person in school. I think that part of it was that my mom was such a strong personality, not being around my family in my 20's helped me come out of me shell.

Also the first job interviews for everyone are always stressful. I've also found that when I didn't want the job desperately, I got offered it.

Oh man, Rosie, I'm sorry!! That sucks!!! Give Andrew a big hug from all of us!!! :bighug:

I'm sorry he didn't get the job. Has he looked into any work at home opportunities? Ones that he could do over the computer?

I have a friend that her husband had been on several interviews for promotions within the police department. He did fine on all aspects of the requirements except for interviewing. His interview took him out of the running for the promotions. I believe she told me he had been on eight interviews for job promotions and she asked me if I could help him. I have interviewed more people for jobs then I care to even admit, so I said yes. I know the questions companies are going to ask, I know the 'odd' question here or there that will be asked, just to see how you respond to a question that you never thought would be asked. I know as an employer what I would be looking for and what the company needs from an employee.

We met one evening and I spent about two hours with him. First I asked him about the promtion he was going for and just chatted in general. I want to see his 'natural' way of speaking before we did anything else. I explained I was going to ask him questions that would most likely come up in an interview and he should answer them. (just like he always has, but I didn't tell him that) We spent about 45 minutes doing this, with about every 15-20 minutes me stopping and telling him what I observed he could do better on. I didn't want to throw him off during the interviewing process by jumping in at each answer.

Then we spent the last half hour just talking in general again, I managed to slip in 4/5 of the same questions I had asked him during the 'practice interview' - he answered them without even realizing that he had answered the same questions.

The last 20 minutes, I explained to him that his biggest problem was that when he answered during the time he was acting like it was a real interview, that he was slow to answer, he was searching to find the right words he thought I wanted to hear. I talked with him about how that would be seen in an interview for a promotion within the police department - a police officer has to think and act quickly. He needed to be prepared for these questions and to respond more quickly. The other thing I told him was that when in just general talking he answered the questions and he used his own words, it sound sincere and flowed easily from him - so to go to the interview and answer the question naturally, in his own words, cadence and the sincerity would be easily heard.

Two days later he went for the interview, he called me and thanked me over and over for helping him 'get' the job. I appreciated that he thanked me, however as I told him, it was you that got the job promotion.

I really believe that if interviews are difficult for a person that they should practice several times prior to going for a job interview. You can look up on the internet the 10 most asked questions in an interview. Practicing answering those questions makes it much easier to interview if you are prepared. One other suggestion - learn something about the company you are apply at - if a large company look at their website, if a smaller company perhaps you know someone that works there or you can look the company up on the internet as well. Sometimes you will only see information about the company in the city meetings.

Hope some of these ideas help.

I think maybe its time for some professional help. I am sure that there are therapists who can help people with their social phobias, just as they do with any other phobia. I think this is beyond what you should expect to be able to do for him. Think of it this way.....he needs a professional coach!

I'm so sorry to hear the problems you're having.

:bighug:

I apologize I can't seem to find the right words right now, but I am thinking of you.

Is there any type job he can do at home, such as a computer job? I think there are lots of places that let you work at home now...i'd love to but i need the medical insurance, and i'm not sure if they all offer it.

I HATE people, and would love to stay home and work. I dont know why i should be forced to go out in public if i dont want to :D

I do go out when i have to, and i take medication, but it really doesnt help much. My sister says i have "angerphobia," instead of "agoraphobia." (i think that's the other term) Because i get angry at everybody when i leave the house! :)

I've also found that when I didn't want the job desperately, I got offered it.

i find that very true as well, also if it comes off to the interviewer that you are not desperate, but just mabye interested then that improves your chances

as a person who has been in both positions, being interviewed for jobs and interviewing others for jobs i have seen how a fair share of companies work, generally a person is allowed one strike against them to still get hired, now if your working skills and personality overshadow that one strike it is overlooked but it's hard to get away with 2
it's not 3 strikes and your ou, it's 2

as far as dealing with larger companies what i have noticed is the things that can earn you 1 strke are

acting timid/unsure of oneself,not making eye contact, taking a while to answer etc. and the ones for physical apperince can vary, long hair on a man is 1 strike and a facial hair is another strike, but them together are 3 strikes and your out, visable tattoos are a strong 2 strikes but can be downplayed

altho right now i do most of my work in a very orthodox community so big full beards and long sidelocks are considered the norm and so you can have a foot long beard and have it not be a strike against you but a visable tattoo is an automatic 3 strikes
so guess it really depends on the market and location of where you are working

during my time working for mostly gentile employers it was more of an issue, beard strike 1the way i dress srike 2 and choosing to observe the sabbath (friday sundowm to saturday sundown) strike 3 and your out

but now owning my own buisness i'm the one who does the interviewing! lol just saying there are always alternatives and most of them aren't that hidden either, tey are right infront of you but most people pass by them

good luck

After reading jellybean's reply, I'm wondering if your YM is applying for the right jobs? There are some types of work that require less contact with people, whether they be customers or co-workers. However, I am not advocating your YM isolate himself, but more that he find a work that is best suitable to talents and personality. When I was in college, my mom send us three girls to a career counselor, not that he helped me much at that point in my life, but people like that know about all fields and the work conditions.

Has your YM made any other friends besides you since moving in with you? Also, what helps (I think) is to spend some time in a day going out and looking at other people in the town and trying to visualize himself working in their jobs and seeing if their job feels "right" to him. The other thought in this, is what I picked up from the Oprah show, and that's follow your passion. The happy fulfilled are those that are working doing something they love to do. Don't choose a job based on the salary or career potential, if you love what you are doing then it won't be a problem getting to work on time, doing the job well, and being in that job for a long time and in better health to boot.

What are your YM's interests and passions?

I had two full time jobs at once about 15 years ago. I was already used to juggling a full time position at one hotel and then adding in extra meal shifts at several other hotels. What happened was that I read an article about a company that make titanium racing bike frames in my town. The company had a woman president and they offered many great employee benefits, including flextime. And I came across the article only by chance, as I didn't ever buy my own newspaper and would read other people's castoffs in the cafeteria. Then about a week an a half later on a Sunday, while browsing through the job classifieds in the paper, I noticed an ad that had to be from their company. They were looking for machinists and finishers and I thought, here's a chance to get a tour of their facilities! My intent was to call the next day, but I forgot. Tuesday, I called and later on, figured out that it was the president herself that had answered the phone (small company). She was very pleasant, but mentioned that the previous day, they had had a hundred people applying. So I apologized for bothering her, but she was nice and said to come down anyway. I laughed and thanked her for allowing me to be the 101st applicant. When I got to the company, there were another four people there filling out applications. We got shown the work area and some of the machines I recognized as being much larger versions of what I had worked with in jewelry class and I said so. I didn't think that my own interview was that spectacular, and I told them that I already had a full time job but that I could fit the hours into my varied hotel schedule. However, respecting that other applicants might have had no job at all, I told them that since they wanted to add 7 people to their staff, to make me their 7th choice (a big software company had just laid off a lot of employees and I think those were some of the wave of applicants from the day before). Well, it turned out that I was one of three people they hired that week. And I worked for them for about three years as a finisher, cleaning and polishing up the frames, inserting the bottom bracket assembly and putting on the decals. They would tell me how many bike frames they needed me to produce a day and I would make sure that they got them on schedule. Some nights I worked until midnight. But it was a fun job. I could wear grungy clothes and listen to loud rock music at the same time. Also, other employees used the flextime, like a whole bunch of them taking off in the afternoons to go for bike rides. Other employee benefits were a free bike frame and a $1500 annual recreational allowance.

Which leads me to another thought, I think your YM would be the most comfortable working for a small workplace, and with a good reputation for treating their employees nicely.