He's disappeared...

It's been 4 days since I last talked to my YM. I really needed to talk to him, and he had promised to talk to me at length the following day. I haven't received any phone call, no email, and no IM's. Unfortunately, he lost the use of the cell phone I had been using to contact him on, and I didn't get a replacement number because he's using other people's phones when he's able to borrow them. Mostly, this month, he's been contacting me every night by IM at least.

There wasn't anything to indicate that his feelings had changed - no arguments between us. I did send him an email saying I can't wait forever on him and he needs to show up this month as promised, but I have a feeling he hasn't even read that email either.

It's just 4 days, I know, but for the past almost 9 months, we've had almost daily contact. If there was not daily contact, at least it was every other day. Now suddenly, no contact for this long number of days.

I am beside myself :(

Is there anyone here that lives in Buffalo, NY?

I would too be worried, could he be sick?

so sorry to hear this Karen....I hope he is alright and more importantly, I hope he didnt just "disappear" intentionally.

I dont live in Buffalo...but will be traveling through that area on the 9th of august on my way to the Albany area....if this isnt resolved by then and there is anything I can do for you while Im there, just let me know.

*hugs*

Like Sheila....I would wonder that first too.
If he is not sick or otherwise detained? I would, personally, never want to speak to him again.
Too many good, loving, solid, men out there to put up with more crap than one absolutely has too. There really is ;)
No explaination, other than metioned above, would cut it for me. I MUST come first in a love relationship. Anything less is just not enough.
Big hugs lady!
Let us know and, if you can, try not to think any more about it until you hear from him. You have enough on your plate right now to worry about someone who is, apparently, not worried enough about you.
Blessings, TD

Go get him Ohlis!!!

alawiy,
You've been so patient and loving and made so many excuses for this guy. He *may* contact you sometime soon with another set of seemingly plausible excuses... but protect yourself, your family and your heart.

This has gone on far too long for someone so sweet such as yourself. Even if he comes around, I'd cut him loose. I don't want to be harsh. In fact, I feel very protective of you. I think we all wanted to hold out hope with you, but I've been skeptical of this guy's intentions for some time.

I don't hold a crystal ball and maybe I'm wrong... but I wouldn't give this guy a second chance to find out.

Good luck sweetie!

he knows how important it was to get in touch... unless he is sick/injured he does not have a good excuse. he's young, perhaps cold feet.
i have not read the other incidents with him, but you know what you want/need from your man. either he is up to it, or you "carry on". you have come so far in getting life together again for you and your kids... you deserve better

you have no way of contacting him or his family???

I don't know the detailed history of your relationship, but sorry to say when a guy disappears (unless he's unconscious in a ditch somewhere--let's hope not) like this...unexpectedly and uncharacteristically...it's usually because they are avoiding you for whatever reason.

It may not necessarily be anything you've said or done, but something can trigger it. I'm no soothsayer, but my hunch is that he is avoiding the lengthy conversation he knows you want about the future of your relationship. You are giving him an ultimatum, which from what it seems is well overdue and he does not know how to respond.

I hope the outcome is positive for you in any case. He hasn't given you any alternative numbers and it's a bit fishy to me that he claims to not have a phone of his own and has to use other people's.

alawiy - I hope that he's okay too. What if you call the local police just to check if he's been in an accident or something? Do you have the name of the shop that he's been sharing? Also, google up some Buffalo news stations. I'm sorry that he's got you so worried but try to focus more on yourself and your daughters. The longest I've been in a blackout situation with my YM is usually a few hours, and I always worry about car accidents and such. I'm getting better about not worrying though.

http://www.wgrz.com/

Wow, I'd be worried sick too. :( I hope he is OK. I would do all I could to try and find out how he is, and if he is all right, I'm afraid I tend to agree that maybe he has gotten cold feet. If that's true, I hope you find out soon so you can go on with your life!! You deserve much more!

Goodness! I hope you hear something soon.:bighug:

Man, I am so sorry you are going through this.

It is very unlikely that he's ill... and even if he were, why wouldn't his family contact you? You are, after all, his fiancee. The same applies to if he were missing. Are you not in contact with his family in any way?

I am really sorry. :(

Does he live with his parents? If so they could be blocking him. That is not a good sign especially after 4 days. How was your communication before then? Did you both speak to each other every day?

You know, A, he's been pulling away here and there lately...and like Zolie said, he's being very flaky on his intentions. Unless he's lying in a ditch somewhere, I'd be ready to kick his behind big time.

You just got two job offers and are avoiding losing custody of your kids. Don't bring on the negative energy of worrying about this guy to yourself and jeapardize how you are turning it all around.

Sometimes things we think are good for us aren't really. I hope that you get some clarity on him and make the choices that are right for you and your kids long term, regardless of what he's up to.

It will be ok.

alawiy,
You've been so patient and loving and made so many excuses for this guy. He *may* contact you sometime soon with another set of seemingly plausible excuses... but protect yourself, your family and your heart.

This has gone on far too long for someone so sweet such as yourself. Even if he comes around, I'd cut him loose. I don't want to be harsh. In fact, I feel very protective of you. I think we all wanted to hold out hope with you, but I've been skeptical of this guy's intentions for some time.

I don't hold a crystal ball and maybe I'm wrong... but I wouldn't give this guy a second chance to find out.

Good luck sweetie!


The only thing I'd add is please do not blame yourself for this. The guy who puts a lot of confusion on the table often does so to gain control or to get himself out of a relationship. And then again, he could be entirely embarrassed by his financial problems. The phone thing kind of points that way.

Feel better, and know it's all good.

Ali

I'm sorry he is doing this to you. Remember, actions speak louder than words and if he calls a month from now with some sob story, please be careful and don't believe everything he tells you. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.

I hope you hear something soon.

I would be worried too, and i also hope that he doesnt give some bad excuse. It's not right to worry you like this.

The only thing I'd add is please do not blame yourself for this. The guy who puts a lot of confusion on the table often does so to gain control or to get himself out of a relationship. And then again, he could be entirely embarrassed by his financial problems. The phone thing kind of points that way.

Feel better, and know it's all good.

Ali

Well I was out looking at rental places today (since I'll probably have to be out of the place I'm in pretty soon) and lo and behold - HE CALLED! That was EARLY in the day, too, so I was surprised! He was at work, and he says he's getting his own phone again tomorrow. He said his car is fixed and on the road again and he's supposed to call me again tonight after 9 pm.

He hasn't read my emails and says he's been working so late lately that he gets home and just falls right asleep. He thought it's only been 2 days since he talked to me last. Last night he said he thought to log on and talk to me, but he had promised to give someone a ride at 4 am, so he thought he better just sleep and talk to me later. (Okay, I did that to him last weekend when I had to get my daughter to the airport at 4 am - although I left him an email telling him I wouldn't be on line.)

LB - I think he has a major embarrassment about his financial situation, that's for sure. It's come up and he doesn't SAY he's embarassed, but I am sure he is.

He's still got some 'splainin' to do. But just knowing he was alright lifted a heavy feeling off of me. He was very loving and all on the phone and I could tell he hasn't read my emails yet, so things may change after that, but no cold feet for now, and the plan is still on for him to visit me before September (though the last several times we've talked, he keeps making it sound like it's going to be the first part of September). I want to stick to the ultimatum though. I can't keep going through this stress and strain, even if I do feel like we love each other. Maybe he loves me just as much as he says he does, too, and maybe this is a VYM thing - that he doesn't perceive the time going by as quickly as I do. Actually, after I was feeling lighter after his call, and I was thinking about things this afternoon, I was thinking, "Why are ALL the guys I've ever hooked up with like this with the time?"

I thought that was a cultural thing (no concept of time), but after thinking about it today, I realized there were people I've had relationships with who were from all places and everywhere. What's up with that? Why are those types attracting me? or me attracting them?

This may still not work out and we'll see what happens with the August/September visit... I have to run and go meet some more landlords. I'll read through the rest of your responses later and reply a little more.

PS - He's a 20 year old man, but has been living on his own for a few years. More later!

He's still got some 'splainin' to do. But just knowing he was alright lifted a heavy feeling off of me. He was very loving and all on the phone and I could tell he hasn't read my emails yet, so things may change after that, but no cold feet for now, and the plan is still on for him to visit me before September (though the last several times we've talked, he keeps making it sound like it's going to be the first part of September). I want to stick to the ultimatum though. I can't keep going through this stress and strain, even if I do feel like we love each other.

I'm just afraid THEN if it gets pushed back to late September, and pushed back again, then it all starts over again...

I am glad hes OK, but i personally think you should stick to your ultimatum. IMO, hes had long enough and plenty of chances.

When his roommate goes on his trip in a few weeks, he'll be leaving the phone and car with my YM to use and maintain, etc. My YM will quit the job he got, drive here to visit, and pay me back the money in person. He'll be able to stay as long as he wants (as long as he's back with the car before his roommate returns and needs it again).

What happened to this plan.....? This was posted June 7th....it's already way past a "few weeks".....has he paid you back the money yet? If he has to be back with the car before his roommate returns, where does that put the visit - time wise????

The plan is always changing.....

You still haven't even met this guy......

At what point does this go beyond " 'splainin' "?????? :confused:

K,
I sent you a pm prior to this latest news.
Your making excuses for him again, and I know that you want to hold out hope and many of us also have hoped that this would work out for you.

At this stage his actions are inexcusable...he knew you were facing eviction and losing your children, I don't think he even knows that you got the job that has resolved at least the issue with your kids!
You missed out on an house because he was unavailable and he has now worried you sick, when you are sick already...all because he was tired...what's that in comparison to what you have been going thru dear one.

I know that now you are just grateful that he is okay, but once that relief works off, I hope you will find clarity. There is every likelyhood of this happening again. And that come September we will be talking about the same thing again.

Your new job starts next week, tell him your to busy to speak until he gives you the arrival date.

bells x

I am more a lurker here than anything. I just wanted to say that many of us have been in your shoes..... action speaks louder than words.... take care of YOU and your children and judge him on what he does, NOT what he says.
(((((hugs)))))) I hope his actions line up!

I'm just afraid THEN if it gets pushed back to late September, and pushed back again, then it all starts over again...

I am glad hes OK, but i personally think you should stick to your ultimatum. IMO, hes had long enough and plenty of chances.

Yeah, that's what I mean. He may not perceive that 9 or 10 months is a long time putting me through all this, but I do - and I said that and many other things in the email I sent him. What I sense is that he's got some dreams for the future, but he's not certain which exact direction to go in (we've talked about different options). I was of course that way when I was 20. I can't fault him for that. But if he doesn't choose one direction to try for now, he's just going to keep drifting around and wasting time and that's not suitable for the health of any long term, serious relationship. Hopefully, my ultimatum wakes him up to that. We'll see. If it doesn't, I know I'll hurt like hell (because I was already hurting like hell the past few days), and I will have to be very careful because it was after a similar breakup before that I got so sick and disabled. I can feel similar health issues starting up again now. But I'll get over it eventually.

I am back from looking at a couple more rentals. Man they are expensive here! No matter where we go, the rents are about $2300/mon and there's going to be at LEAST another $300 public transportation cost a month just to get the kids HOME from school in the afternoon (double that if I can't drop them off in the morning). My transportation cost is going to be about $200 a month. That's about $3100 before utilities and other bills are paid. I asked him today if he didn't want to just come and work as my driver! That could save us a few hundred bucks a month and then he could work a part time job and go to school, too. Of course, like I said, he was calling from work, so he didn't get much time to talk to me about that idea, but he sounded excited about the idea. And any part time work he could do would contribute to all the expenses.

Anyway.. back to the September trip thing. Eventually, he's going to have to check his emails and he'll read my ultimatum and either **** or get off the pot. But I asked him directly today if he's coming out here because I have decisions to make about what type of housing to get and where. I decided just to assume he's NOT coming out here and that made the feeling a little less stressful for me. I'll just have to go with finding something as close to the kids school as possible, even though that means putting up with a ton of negative things and higher rent rates. But that will only be for 2 more years, and then we can move wherever we want to - back out of the fog bank will be the first place we go then!

There's a lot of competition for these places though. I wish he was here working so that we'd have the advantage of saying that we've got a two-income family. I run the risk of nobody renting to me because I just started a job, and my starting pay is rather low.

He talked about finishing up what he was doing at school for a few months before coming here permanently. (I was really pushing him to talk to me even though it was obvious from the sounds of things that he was busy at work.) He's mentioned before owing the school money, so I guess he wants to get his classes done for what loans they gave him, and I don't know - maybe that's the reason for his working 14 to 16 hour days 7 days a week right now - so he has money to live on while he goes to school. Although, again, I think he's just drifting and not sure of how he's going to manage work and school.

Well... that's all for now I guess. I feeling just a lot better to know he's not hurt. I would have yelled at him, I think, when I heard his voice, but my daughter got on my last nerve the other day and I screamed at her so much that I have lost the use of my vocal chords. I am not used to raising my voice, let alone screaming, so I did a number and can barely talk. (Hope it gets better before I start work next week!) I am so thankful that while I look for another place to live, I don't have to be looking for a job now at the same time, too - WHAT A RELIEF!

Thanks for your shoulders today! I really needed them!

:grouphug:

Naznoor,
It seems to me that you shouldn't be so emotionally invested, until you at least MEET him....... Live your life, for yourself and your children. I personally would be very concerned about a man who asks you to marry him, without even meeting, and then treats you this way..... Just sound carazy to me....

Don't make excuses for him - before you know it you will have bargained and rationalized yourself into a hell hole. You deserve better.

What happened to this plan.....? This was posted June 7th....it's already way past a "few weeks".....has he paid you back the money yet? If he has to be back with the car before his roommate returns, where does that put the visit - time wise????

The plan is always changing.....

You still haven't even met this guy......

At what point does this go beyond " 'splainin' "?????? :confused:

I don't know if I posted it here on the boards or not, but two things happened with the phone and the car: 1) He used a good part of the money he had saved to get his non-functional car back on the road (car repairs and then insurance) so that he wouldn't have to use his roommate's car; 2) the day he got his car back on the road, he was so thrilled and messing around with something, he didn't pay attention and ran into a pole; and 3) the roommate didn't pay the cell phone bill and had run it up to a high bill. So he decided that he was going to work and put the money towards fixing his car again, and then get a cell phone later. That's why the cell phone is not able to be used now.

The 'splainin' is to make me understand why he thinks it's cool to not leave me other ways to contact him.... among other things. Recalling that he's a political refugee from a country that the USA is enemies with, and who is committing genocide on his people, where refugees in other countries are mysteriously being sent back to his country and end up dead.... I don't automatically fault him for wanting to remain guarded... remember he's not met ME either yet. But once he HAS met me, I think there should be no excuse, and I think he should share everything with me then.

If I posted on June 7, and he said he'd be coming in 4 to 6 weeks, that puts us 2 to 4 weeks past the original scheduled plan for a visit. His car was out of commission for 2 or 3 weeks now. After he messed up his car, the plan was changed to "before September". So that's it. That's the cut off time now. That's where the deadline is now that he has to get here or we'll say our goodbyes.

It is damn frustrating to have a string of things "go wrong". I guess to most people who lead "normal" lives it would automatically seem that these are all just excuses or him fantasizing (which is a possibility - and I mention the issue in the "ultimatum email"), but like I have said before. I am used to this occurring in MY life. My life has been one LONG string of things that never went according to plan. I can't think of one thing that I've planned and worked for that has EVER worked out the way I planned it and most plans have been completely destroyed (or at least put on a FAR back burner - for decades). There are some people in life that you can look at and say "**** happens!" - and I'm one of them! So is my daughter. Other people, like my two ex husbands, seem to lead a "charmed life". My son is a bit like this. I don't know how to explain that, I just know **** happens to some of us, so I know it's also a possibility of he being one of those people, too.

Definitely smacking his newly repaired car that he had just paid several hundred dollars to fix into a pole and having to pay another few hundred to repair again is something HE could have avoided. That he DID bring on himself. But guess what. I did the same thing after not driving for a couple years (donated my car and just rode with my husband around here and there) and then bought a used car. The first month I had it, I misjudged and hit a concrete post... grazed it only, but it buckled the door just right so that it had to be towed and the whole door replaced. The price tag: $7,000.

You're being hustled! :eek: That's my instinct talking.

The explanations you are relaying to us sound too much like those background stories to a Nigerian credit-card scam.

It seems to me that you shouldn't be so emotionally invested, until you at least MEET him....... Live your life, for yourself and your children. I personally would be very concerned about a man who asks you to marry him, without even meeting, and then treats you this way..... Just sound carazy to me....


It does sound crazy if you're not used to that way of arranging marriage. Part of my patience and all is my personality and maybe a little bit of watching everyone else in my family go through life facing challenges and still sticking together, but there's also my faith and the way things are done in my religion - it's not so crazy and is pretty commonly done that way in many of the Islamic cultures.

Without retelling my whole life story, I can just say I've spent a lot more time getting to know him than I got to spend with all the other people who I only met in person and "dated" (before there were ever cell phones and phone cameras that you carry around with you wherever you go, and before the internet and web cams).

Before he took this new job, we were on the cell phone a LOT and in this way, I also "met" his customers, and his friends (his family is in a different state, but he would tell me about conversations they had had sometimes). I got to sense how he treats other people in a variety of circumstances, how he relates to people. I got to sense how he has to look after himself, and how he lets his guard down when he's in his own place, by himself, and talking about various deep subjects.

When he was working at the first store, he had a lot of time on his hands and I did too. The owner was out of the country on an extended honeymoon, so my guy and his roommate ran the store. The owner's apartment is an apartment above the store where the two guys (and usually a bunch of their friends) could go up and sit and watch movies or talk or whatever, then if a customer came in the store, a certain alarm bell would go off, so they'd take turns going down to the store part again to take care of the customers. Most of the customers were pretty shady there, trying to rip them off all the time, trying to get him to give them free stuff. I could hear how he handled all that. But when he changed jobs and went to the other store, where he was glad they had a bullet proof glass he stands behind, he found that the work was a lot more busy, too. You can hear when you talk to him that customers come in the store every few seconds and he doesn't have a moment to sit down. They don't care that he's talking on the phone either. They just interrupt and talk to him. And of course, he is at WORK, so I do have to wait, or most times he just says, "I'll have to talk to you later." If the boss is around (which is most of the time), he doesn't call at all.

Perhaps other people don't understand that way of putting off talks with loved ones during work hours, but I certainly understand it because that's how I am, too. If my family calls while I'm working, I have to say I'm sorry, but I could lose my job if I'm talking on the phone all the time, and so I have to make the calls as short and as few as possible.

I used to laugh at him when we were talking late at night after he finished work at the first store. He thought he could stay awake and alert for so long he called himself "a beast". One time he was in the middle of that sentence of calling himself a beast when he fell asleep! If he was that tired from working the 16 hours, 7 days a week, for months on end with no vacation or sick days at the slow store, I can imagine how tired he gets at the new store where he's on the go every second, still working 16 hour days, 7 days a week, for months. Yeah I do make excuses for his fatigue because I know what it's like to come home from work and think you'll sit down for just a minute and wake up 6 or 7 hours later and find you have fallen asleep on the spot. I push myself to stay up and wait for him, and I shouldn't because sleep deprivation makes me more sick. So who is the one doing wrong here? Me or him? He's the one taking care of his body and I'm not.

Still.... there's the ultimatum. I did give it and it's done now. It's the first time I've ever given him an ultimatum and I think only the second time in my life I have given a guy an ultimatum. And I told him I'm not waiting up for him anymore either because it's making me sick. So...there you go. Maybe he'll keep falling asleep and maybe he will wake up too late tomorrow to go get a new phone before he has to get to work again. Maybe another few days will go by and he will be like the Dunkin' Donut man, meeting himself coming and going. But he's got the ultimatum and I told him if he's not here at least for a visit before September, then we should split as a "couple."

If it's really meant to be, Naznoor, should you have to give him an ultimatim? Ultimatim's are acts of desperation... I would let him go.... honestly, I would. the truth is, if a man wants to be with you, he would move heaven and earth to make it possible.....
I don't see this happening. I'm sorry....

Ah darlin', I've been trying to be a "have faith in the guy!" hold-out but I've got to be honest, I'm seeing big, red flags, too and I'm really worried that you can't see the forest because you're standing in the middle of a bunch of trees.

I hope I'm wrong but please, please, please know that when SO many people are saying, "something's not right here," it's nearly always because something isn't right. I learned that lesson the hard way myself.

Thinking of you. :bighug:





PS - / I'm a state that borders NY. If he doesn't get it together, let me know. I got a size 10 shoe in need of a home now that it's match is implanted in my fiance's rear. I seem to be on a roll so no need to stop now!

Thinking of you. :bighug:





PS - / I'm a state that borders NY. If he doesn't get it together, let me know. I got a size 10 shoe in need of a home now that it's match is implanted in my fiance's rear. I seem to be on a roll so no need to stop now!

LOL.... thanks :)

He's about to go home and read the email. I just had a phone conversation with him. I said "What's the point in all this?"

I do tend to go on too long with things in my life (anything) trying to "figure it out". My mother nicknamed me "Madame Curie". I think that's what I must be doing still here in this thing. Trying to figure it out.

Perhaps I am jaded after what I went through with Daniel, but, well, this man is bullsh****ng you. Cut your losses now while you still can - as hard as it will be because you are so emotionally vested, but it's obvious he's not and he has no intentions of being equally vested or he wouldn't be pulling this crap. He HAS the ability to be there already, especially since he's planned to be there and then renigged, as hard as it is to face, he really doesn't want to be there, for whatever reason. You're too great a person to waste your life in the middle of a never ending emotional roller coaster game...

I've been keeping a little secret. I had a secret stash of money (not a lot at all - hardly anything, but it was there) that was left over when I closed my business a couple of years ago. Since my young man and I have talked many times about having a business together, when he told me about his plan to open the business that he did, and told me all the details, I considered lending him that money. It was actually not a loan, really, but an "investment". This was going to be "our" business, but because I hate dealing with all of the taxes and accounting, he did this in a way where I wouldn't have to be involved with that. This is how it came about that I actually did send him the money: ...sorry, but this was the first of MANY red flags in this post....

First, he talked about his plan, the numbers, and how he could open a business (how much the store front rentals cost, how much money he knew could be made from the kind of business he had, what kind of customers would come, what area it was in, etc.) Then he had a choice: borrow some money from some guys he knows there, or get some money from me. ....you have mentioned SO many times about not even having the money to visit each other and yet, you give money for him to start up a business? A plane ticket to visit might have clarified this relationship/situation....why didn't he want to do this?

Let me interject here.... we're not talking about much money here, not even enough for me to pay one month's rent in San Francisco.

Okay, so he decided to ask me for the money instead of the guys and this was his reasoning: If he asked the guys, then any profit that would be made would have to be split with them, but they could give a **** about any of the business plan or his future plans or anything, they would just be interested in getting some money. If I invested the money, then the money would come back to me in full because his money would be my money (especially once we're married) ....married??? At this point, he has borrowed money from you, strung you along about when he is paying you back, when he is visiting.... I hope marriage is WAY down on the list at this point. In addition, the business plan involves hiring one or two other people, so he felt good about being able to provide a source of income for someone else, too.

So I thought about it... and thought about it some more. I had been looking for business opportunities anyway (that were not MLM's, that is), and I thought this would be a good risk, a good investment.

Unfortunately, after I decided to send him the money, but before I actually did send him any money, I received a letter from the IRS stating that my 2005 taxes were going to be audited. ....HUGE stressor. Been there, done that and it is NOT the best time to be sending money to anyone, much less someone you haven't even met, who cannot relate to that kind of stress... That tax year was very complicated and involved not only my business and personal taxes for that year, but also amendments to taxes I had already done in the years 2000 to 2004 also. The letter said that I may owe more taxes (despite that I paid a ton of taxes already).

At the same time, as it turned out, he wasn't going to have to rent an entire store front for himself, he would be able to share a store location with someone else he knows that has a similar business. In fact, he would work part time for that store owner, and have his own business in one of the other rooms of it. We don't know if that is a benefit or hindrance to his business yet to split a facility like that, but that's what he did.

So because of the tax audit that came up, I told him that I couldn't send the entire amount that I had been planning to send. I would instead send only half of it, and I didn't send it until I had an idea from him how soon he thought it would be before he could make it back and get the money back to me. He figured 2 months tops. Originally he had asked me if I invested anything, how long would I be agreeable to waiting to get it back. I had said a year or two (because having been a business owner before, I know it could be that long before there is extra money to pay back like that). He had said, "it's not going to take THAT long! I'll have it back to you before 2 months is up." ....again, has he paid you back yet?

So I sent the money, and as you may have read in other posts, he hasn't made the money that he had hoped he would ....is this supposed to surprise anyone? But then again, neither did the other business owner make much the past two months either. Business was, for some reason, really slow for both of them. I am sure that was depressing for my YM. We had a little disagreement (actually I did all the talking, and he didn't disagree, but it just bothered me because he DIDN'T say anything to that point). I was upset that he knew I had this tax audit hanging over my head and he didn't get the money back to me. Wait... not that he didn't get the money back to me, but that he didn't tell me that he wasn't going to be able to. The truth is, he kept hoping that he would be able to get it back to me, but he just didn't say anything even up to the days closest to the audit. ....another red flag about being self centered, not really caring about you....

The results of the audit were a "smashing success" as my CPA put it. Where there were an expected $5,000 in additional taxes the IRS said I was going to have to pay, the CPA worked to get that ironed out to whatever the tax due is on $250 of expenses that I could not come up with a paper receipt for (which I no doubt have misplaced in the past 2 years). So I am not so anxious anymore about having that money back, BUT....

Even though that tax audit situation is almost nearly resolved (still waiting for the ex husband to pay his half of the CPA fees for representing us at the tax audit..and then we'll get an IRS bill for the taxes due)... this is what my YM did next:

He went on Tuesday for a job interview. He got the job, and he started work on Wednesday. He is making money at his business, but just not enough to pay me back, so he went and got a job just so he can pay me back that money NOW. The night before he started the job, so just this past Tuesday night, we stayed up all night talking about all kinds of things. We talked about the financial situation and other things. He asked me to be honest and open about some things he wanted to ask me, and I asked him similar questions. By the time we hung up the phone, he had told me that nothing has changed between us, or that the only thing that has changed is that he feels he loves me even more than he did before. I feel the same way.

So he thinks he'll make enough money in working 4 to 6 weeks to make back the money I sent him AND enough to pay for a trip out here. ....has this happened yet?

This morning my phone rang at 7:30. He hasn't called me that early in months, so I didn't expect it to be him. He was calling from someone else's phone, too, so I couldn't tell who was calling me. I was so pleasantly surprised to hear from him. Anyway, he talked to me again about the money and I reminded him that I had originally told him that I didn't expect a return on the investment until a year or more from now. He said, "No... I don't want anything financial like this to affect our relationship. I don't want you to ever wonder if I'm hanging around because of the money or anything like that. And I don't want you to think that I'm not responsible, too. I'm going to pay you back right away so that's not hanging over our heads, so it's out of our relationship." ...Harrison's post about being hustled comes to mind here....

Then he said he couldn't wait until his roommate leaves. His roommate is who he shares a cell phone and car with (I know it's not a wife, girlfriend, or woman either - because when I call that number, half the time it's his friend/roommate and the other half the time it's my YM). His roommate is going to visit his home country for 2 or 3 months. So now, the new plan is...

*drum roll please...*

When his roommate goes on his trip in a few weeks, he'll be leaving the phone and car with my YM to use and maintain, etc. My YM will quit the job he got, drive here to visit, and pay me back the money in person. He'll be able to stay as long as he wants (as long as he's back with the car before his roommate returns and needs it again). ....has he quit his job yet? Does he even have the money to come visit, much less the money he owes you?

So that's all exciting and I have had a smile on my face all day for a couple of days now. But you know... I'll believe it when I see it that he's here! But... it does look like he's taking actions! ....it looks like he is taking actions??? Only if action means running you around....

....I mean, is it REALLY that hard to see through all of this????

It is when you're that emotionally vested, Epo. Been there, done that. They lie and you want SO badly to believe them...every excuse, every story, every line...you only hear what you want to hear because you want to be with that person so badly and you just don't realize that you're getting played until it's way too late.

It is when you're that emotionally vested, Epo. Been there, done that. They lie and you want SO badly to believe them...every excuse, every story, every line...you only hear what you want to hear because you want to be with that person so badly and you just don't realize that you're getting played until it's way too late.


I understand this point molly....I guess I am just trying to give a virtual "shake" to Naznoor. But everyone has to walk their own path and only see the forest when they aren't overwhelmed by the trees... :o

I'm afraid I agree with Epo. After hearing all the other things this guy has "promised" in the past, and then backed out of, I think it's pretty obvious that he is more into having a "fantasy" long distance relationship than having a REAL LIFE one with all it's ups and downs.

Sooner or later, Naz, you will see clearly and move on. I, too, in the past have stayed in bad situations way too long. There's something about getting to the ripe old age of 50 that causes you to reevaluate how valuable your time is, though, and to be less inclined to waste it. I think I was 48 when I broke off with my first young man I had been dating for two years because things were never going to change. I finally realized that even if I NEVER met anyone to share my life with, that whatever time I had left in my life was too important to waste with someone who really didn't appreciate me. At least you still have children at home, I spent all my time with my grandkids. And it was OK. :yes:

I too have seen the blazing red flags waving but I have still tried to pray for a positive outcome for you.
I still do but I think the the "positive" here would be for you to be happy Karen..........and w/o him.
Way too many obsticles here to overcome and you have enough on your plate right now.
I think this long distance thing has run it's course and although I think I do understand why you hang onto it......you KNOW you deserve better and have an amazing heart to give to someone.
Your heart, although heavy right now, will still be there to give one day to one who can match it.
Blessings, TD

Maybe he loves me just as much as he says he does, too, and maybe this is a VYM thing - that he doesn't perceive the time going by as quickly as I do. Actually, after I was feeling lighter after his call, and I was thinking about things this afternoon, I was thinking, "Why are ALL the guys I've ever hooked up with like this with the time?"



Sweetie, I want to join with those who say you should be paying attention to those big red flags waving around your head. And in particular, the quote above.

If this is how all the men you've had in your life treat you, I really think you need to stop and consider the ways in which you're allowing that to happen.

This may sound harsh, but in my experience, very often, men treat women the way women let themselves be treated. One of the cast iron markers for me that the guy I'm with is a keeper is that he doesn't pull this crap. He calls when he says he will, he is considerate, he knows what's happening with you and he responds accordingly.

We've all been with the guy who doesn't call, isn't considerate, seems oblivious when we're going through a hard time - and we all make excuses for them because we want to believe he's worth it. He didn't call for a few days? Maybe he's sick, or tired, or busy, or can't get to a phone, or mislaid our phone number or, blah blah blah.

He didn't come over when he said he would? Well, maybe he's broke, or sick, or tired, or working, or blah blah blah.

A guy has a pattern of flaking on commitments, being distracted, not calling when you have said you need to speak with him about something important? Maybe it's cultural, maybe it's his age, maybe he is sick, maybe he is tired, maybe he is working, blah blah blah.

A guy who loves you and wants to be sure that you will keep him in your life doesn't behave this way. I don't care what his culture is or how old he is - if he wants to be sure of keeping you, he acts accordingly.

I know you've invested a lot in this relationship and want it to work out. But consider: this guy is showing you his character.

He goes to sleep instead of calling you for two minutes to say, I'm so tired, I can't talk for long, but I wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

He doesn't read your emails for four days - no one in love at this stage of a relationship ignores the other's communications for four days.

He can't get it together to come and visit you and always has some increasingly implausible excuse.

Do you want to be married to someone who treats you like this? Because that's what's in your future if this "works out".

You are worth so much more than this and you should be with someone who is marvelling over your generosity of spirit, not taking advantage of it.

I really think you should cut your losses and move on.

A man should not keep you emotionally distressed--plain and simple. Yes, relationships are not easy and there are always some rough patches here and there, but the disappearing act is really the worst IMHO...it would go under the category of mental cruelty. It's a very manipulative, purposeful act that is meant to keep a partner off-balance.

Gosh, I had to join the bandwagon here, but you know that I care about you a lot and you are one of my favorite posters on this board.

Focus on making your decisions based only on what is best for you and your daughters. Put your YM totally out of your mind at this time. I feel that if nothing else happens with him, his purpose of offering you some emotional comfort in the past is fine, but now it may be time to move on. Since visiting or moving out to you is so difficult for him this year, count him out for the next year and just rent a place that is best for you and your two girls. If you find a perfect house with an extra bedroom, consider renting it out to a nice quiet foreign grad student or get an au pair to help with your chores.

And honestly, your YM has no business taking an absentee roommate's car and driving it out to California to see you. It doesn't even sound like your YM has clearly asked this guy if he can just take it to California, he's just taking advance of the loophole that the roommate hasn't set any restrictions on the borrowing of his car. And that idea just has "future train wreck" plastered all over it. And what if the roommate becomes lax on the insurance payments? As I suggested before... Greyhound. YM just have bad luck with cars at that age.

So the kindest thing that I can say is just think about yourself and your family first and for the next year, and if your YM comes through next year, it will be icing on your cake. Personally, I am hoping with your new job, you will have opportunities to meet all kinds of new and wonderful people, and amongst them perhaps a future special person in your life. You deserve better and it's long overdue that you find a man that will instead take care of you. :yes:

....I mean, is it REALLY that hard to see through all of this????

Oh shoot.. I thought more was going to be grabbed in the quote than this.

Well from memory of your long post (which was really my long post): Yes, it's apparently hard for people to see through it clearly - for the readers. I write too much, and therefore details get lost in my long windedness and people do get confused with what's actually going on.

Thanks for the attempt to point out to me what looks like the obvious. Yes, I am suspicious and was suspicious about the money I invested. That's why I waited a fairly long time and asked a lot of questions and got a lot of answers about how he intended to set up and run the business. It is possible it was a scam, but I do have the confirmed address of where the business was that he started inside the shop of another appliance store, and I know for a fact that he was there (I contacted him there at least once by postal mail and he got it). It shows up on the map as being right next door to the hair salon that he said was there. The salon shows up on the map, too.

I posted in other places on this site a very long explanation of how I came to invest the money and how it was business money to be invested quite separate from anything else in my financial "bank" so to speak and it was a risk I knowingly took. It was business money that I would have invested in some way, rather than using it for anything personal. I took the risk with him while he also knew that is ALL there was to get from me. Nothing more. (Also when I was first contacted last week that I have a job now to start next week, I didn't share that with him either, so I could see if there was any difference in the way that he communicated with me. When I tell him I have a job, I'll see if there is any difference.)

Anyway, he may be a hustler, for sure, and I may have been stupid to lose that money. One never knows when they invest in any business if it will be returned, no matter how "legitimate" a business is. For example, one of my brothers invested several thousand dollars in the company we worked for. He being one of the executives of the company had all the information and confidence needed to make a sound decision, but he lost all of that money when the company was acquired and he was terminated.

But as I had explained before, as far as my YM knows, what I invested was all there was to get and there ain't no more. Because (as I explained in the other posts) that was business and not personal money and not enough to pay for much in this part of the country like rent even if I did use it for personal things. Since I have been in a bittersweet position due to being a victim of a crime last year perpetrated by the landlord of this building I'm in (he's in prison for 20 years now), that I didn't have to pay rent here the past year, although I have no job, the child support and food bank food is enough to have survived on from my personal funds. That $1,000 of BUSINESS money was available therefore for investing in business that I hoped would bring a return (which was planned to be in the form of both travel money for him, and a flat repayment to me of the investment - at least. At the most, it was hoped to make a lot more than that).

Other than that low investment, there is nothing he can possibly think he can get from me. Perhaps he is stringing me along just so I won't ask for the money back? But I didn't even tell him about that money until later and he knew I had nothing before that, so I really can't think why he would be trying to hustle me.

You his job situation confused. Yes, he quit the first job and yes he started the new job (the new job was started in June - the time of the "new plan" to "come for a visit within the next 4 to 6 weeks"), and yes, he saved enough money to pay me back, he was saving for the trip then, and then he had the car accident a couple weeks ago. He's bring home about $300 or $400 a week at this new job. In the two months (6 or 7 weeks) time since he started the new job, he had to sink several hundred dollars into the car - twice. So no, now he doesn't have the money to pay me back and still has to save for the trip.... and buy a phone. $1200 a month he's bringing home. His rent I think he said is $200 to $400 a month (but don't remember if he said that was his actual rent payment or the whole payment which he shared with the roommate - who is not there this month, so I'll figure the $400 for now). I don't know how much is the car insurance - I think he said around $150 a month. Sometimes he eats food. I don't know how much groceries cost him. Unfortunately, he a smoker, so that costs him. He's paid about $700 for his car repairs now. What does that add up to? $1800 expenses for him in the past couple of months (at least). That should leave him about $600 right about now. That's not enough to travel here by air or road, and it's not enough to pay me back. If he gets here by the end of August, the way I'm figuring the numbers, he should have saved another $1000 or so - if nothing else happens. Well I guess less than that since he'll be buying a phone for himself, too.

Yes, yes, yes, it could be a hustle. But having lived through poverty several times in my life, this all sounds like the usual life of a poor person. If he's been sincere, and just naive with the way he lives and spends his money, that's one thing. If he's actually just trying to string me along so that some time years in the future I happen to pop out of my poverty and he can take advantage of me, that's another thing. Which is it? I don't know.

I do know that I was married to college educated men before who had higher paying jobs and who did a worse job with their life and their money though. And as I'm typing, I can't help thinking about all the lawyers I have worked for who had absolutely no sense or perception of the time needed to do various things. So apparently money and education didn't help them either.

I guess it would help to know for sure if maybe he's living in a trailor park or the projects somewhere. If he is, could it be enough of an embarrassment to him to share that information with me while he struggles to get out of it? I DO have a confirmed address and phone number of the store he worked in up until June. I do have a home address, but haven't ever tried to confirm that beyond looking at a map (which I couldn't find for a long time so thought it was a false address; but I did actually find it on another map this week and it's right around the corner from where the first store is where he worked and in the neighborhood of the place where he started/shares the business). I DID hear the nature of the business being conducted on a daily basis there at the first store. I DO know that it's in a very low income area, and that many of the customers who came into the store were always trying to get him to give them stuff for free, they were trying to rip the store off (I could hear it all going on in the background often and could hear how he had to deal with that). Many food stamps customers and sounded like crack addicts there who wanted to use their money to buy cigarettes and steal the alcohol. My guy stated several times how much he hated working there, how dangerous it was, how he had to be careful, and how he hated not going to the mosque anymore because of feeling otherwise guilty about going to a mosque while he was selling alcohol to people. He still feels bad about that, but decided to go back to the mosque and to his prayers anyway. At the new store, he's got a bullet proof glass he gets to stay behind, too, which he is happy about.

Now, supposing that he's really poor and embarrassed about it, but wants to try and get out of that poverty. Should I encourage such a thing? Supposing he really finds me a good life partner on many levels and wants to somehow make a future with me, and to be the one to provide for me. Suppose I find his potential and intelligence and love really remarkable, even if he's poor and his life has sucked so far. Should I drop him and hook up with someone that has more money but who I have no feelings for? Just so I can get out of my economic pit? Especially when I've been down in the pit a few times myself and have been looked down upon with disdain by others simply because of my economic standing? Especially when I know that my financial status doesn't reflect the amount of love I can give a person, or how hard I work, or things like that?

My experience in life this far has brought me to a place in my heart and mind that I really believe that I can be happy living on the lower economic scale as long as my basic needs are met, and that I'm happy with the person I'm married to. What makes me happy is someone that understands like me that you can have a great education, work your *** off in life, and still get absolutely nowhere because sometimes (or many times) in some people's lives **** happens that changes all your plans. But if a person thinks like me that they have to keep trying anyway, as hard as that is, and do what they need to do to surivive, then I'd rather be with them than someone that goes into a depression, shuts down, is afraid to work, is too lazy to work, feels certain work is "beneath" him or "deserved", or vents his frustration in bursts of anger and destruction.

Yes, he could just be trying to hustle me. He's persistent if that's the case. He knows there is no more where the first money came from. So what's he trying to hustle now?

....Yes, he could just be trying to hustle me. He's persistent if that's the case. He knows there is no more where the first money came from. So what's he trying to hustle now?

What all men typically want from poor women they pursue: Affection, sex, companionship, a roof over their head provided the woman has one... and last but not least, a claim on any future earnings the woman will bring in. :D

Right??

I don't know your situation that well as I admit I haven't followed it nearly as closely as others here. I am no stranger to LDR or online relationships and I'm not suspicious of them by nature. However, I do think that some folks get all kinds of things out of them and that it is possible to be "hustled" for things other than dollars. It can be a tremendously rewarding experience to be connected to someone and that can feed the ego in all kinds of ways.

I am not trying to undermine your faith in your relationship. Only you can judge what is meeting your needs and what is not. If it is meeting your needs, then who is anyone else to say it is a bad thing.

Any online relationship that did not transpire into a real life meeting within a reasonable timeframe would *really* concern me. Especially when you consider that your both traveling inside of the same country. Nothing can go on forever online only...

Have you webcammed with this guy to be sure he is, who he says he is? Also, if he is working, why don't you work out a payment plan with him, say $50.00 per month starting Aug 1st. If that first payment arrives, you'll know he's at least on the level.....

Well.....

I hope things work out. Your last post reflects what you believe, and it is kind of sad....all that explanation and rationaliztion for his immature/inconsiderate behavior. But, as Marcy said, if this is a fulfilling relationship for you, who are we to judge?


However, the title of this thread suggests it is not as rosy a situation as you tend to try to paint when you are making rationalizations for his decisions and actions....I am actually not even sure what kind of support you are seeking, as you deflect any criticism of his actions. I can only assume that this IS an acceptable way for someone to treat you - in your mind - and therefore, I cannot relate or give adequate support for your situation.

Good luck. I sincerely hope your path is a gentle one....

I've said this before. I really want to have faith in this relationship and I want to believe that you are not being used. I consider myself a pretty gullible person when it comes to men, but your story and all these excuses make my stomach churn, because like Epo and the others, I cannot quite figure out why you have such faith in a person who you have not even met and who has not made good on any of his promises.

There are certain money matters that were hammered out early in my relationship with my YM, and yes folks, I have paid a cell phone bill, paid for an airline ticket for him, helped him pay for his copyright, but always in such transactions, there was a paper trail. I knew exactly where my money was going and as much as I love him, I did not put blind trust in him. I spoke with his attorney and payed the attorney directly and received a receipt.

I have never allowed access to my bank account or credit card numbers although I know his account number and pin number because I was there when we set up his checking. I see his pay stubs and I see the monthly bills on the apartment we share rent on. My point being, I know a lot more about him than he knows about me when it comes to financial assets. Am I a meal ticket? I think that could be debated if one felt that OW should assume no financial responsibility for their YM. The point is, there is a paper trail! What you have is word of mouth from someone who has kept none of their promises and that you really haven't met!:fryingpan:

I whole heartedly agree that there is a difference in how people without money regard money. He laughs when I talk about planning for my retirement, because in his world you work until you die. But, his poverty does not excuse you from not being more hands on with your finances! I'm not Suze Orman, but at this moment I feel like it. You are banking on a shaky investment in more ways than one! And sadly, the pocket that he is really picking, is your heart!

In your last post, I read a lot of 'suppose' this, 'suppose that' regarding your partner - don't you think it is time to have a straight talk with him instead of 'supposing'?

The few posts of yours that I have read, always leave me thinking ... so much heartache already.

Also, if he is working, why don't you work out a payment plan with him, say $50.00 per month starting Aug 1st. If that first payment arrives, you'll know he's at least on the level.....

While this is one option, my concern is not so much about the money. I think Alawiy took a calculated risk and knew that she might not get the money back. It's about emotionally manipulative ties that feed false hope.

My goal in my first post was not to completely shoot down you down or anything. I posted because *I* could not in good conscious continue on without saying anything about my reservations based on the story that you've given us. I've known you for 7 months, watched your situation closely, and have gotten to know you pretty well over an extended period of time.

I don't think its because you've said too much that I developed these concerns. I think it's because *he* hasn't done enough to show that this is real. Has he sent you a card in the mail? (only the cost of a stamp!) What other ACTIONS has he taken to be closer to you? (The car doesn't count since that didn't work out...)

I think that rich or poor, you can find a nice Muslim guy in your area who you can get to know in real life and who will love you for who you are. I don't think anyone here is advocating that you find some rich Bay Area guy to take care of you monitarily. But I do think that you can find someone who can take care of you emotionally, day in and day out; who is dependable, who you can talk to when you want to, who's address you know, who's schedule you can figure out, who will follow through on something when it's promised.

And I know that no matter what I say, it probably won't help. I feel bad saying it, but I'd feel worse if I didn't.

Oh man... you seem like a really nice person so I don't want to say anything to hurt your feelings.

You are under the microscope re: custody of your child (children?) for financial reasons, had issues with finding employment (I'm so glad that worked out for you! :) ), and have sent money to someone you have never met who claims not to have enough money to come see you for him to invest in a business.

I know there are other factors, emotional ones, that form the flesh of the facts here, but the above are the bones.

I think you need to ask yourself why you have decided this is good enough for you.

I am holding my tongue (or fingers, as it were), but you need to understand how this looks to an outsider... like really poor judgement. I'm very sorry. :(

I'm afraid I agree with Epo. After hearing all the other things this guy has "promised" in the past, and then backed out of, I think it's pretty obvious that he is more into having a "fantasy" long distance relationship than having a REAL LIFE one with all it's ups and downs.

Sooner or later, Naz, you will see clearly and move on. I, too, in the past have stayed in bad situations way too long. There's something about getting to the ripe old age of 50 that causes you to reevaluate how valuable your time is, though, and to be less inclined to waste it. I think I was 48 when I broke off with my first young man I had been dating for two years because things were never going to change. I finally realized that even if I NEVER met anyone to share my life with, that whatever time I had left in my life was too important to waste with someone who really didn't appreciate me. At least you still have children at home, I spent all my time with my grandkids. And it was OK. :yes:

Yeah, the way I see it is... I'm invisible to everyone else anyway (for many reasons), so while I'm frustrated with everything the way it's turned out, and with all I have had to deal with the past 25 years and this past year especially, he's been a good distraction from most of the "real life" and helped me so much as an emotional support so many times (until this past month), it's been a benefit to me in that regard. Being invisible to everyone else, it's not like I'm turning down other offers (okay, I am, but they are offers from people outside of the country - I don't have any resources to invest emotionally, financially, or otherwise with taking a risk to find out if THEY are green card seekers only; at least in the USA I have some relative resources for finding out about a person).

At this particular time, in "real life", there are absolutely no other options that I'm turning down or wasting just because I'm with this YM long distance in his fantasy if it be that. I have spent a lot of time with my kids this past year and that's been great and they I am sure appreciate that. I am sure that it's been a good thing that I've not been out dating around or spending time trying to get to know a number of different men. I know for a fact that kind of life would have caused harm for my kids especially this past year. So my sticking with one guy for so long that has made me happy most of that time and thus given more happy time focused on the kids has been a benefit, too.

I did spend a lot of hours each day for a few months talking and getting to know this YM (and so did the kids), but while it's frustrating now not to get to talk to him as much as before, if it's just a minute out of my life every day now these days (or maybe 30 minutes at night if he's on line then - and no minutes for those strangely quiet 4 days) - how is that exactly wasting my life? In my mind, it's not wasting anything but my emotions, and it would be a waste in that case only if really he is a scammer. Even then, somehow, strangely, it served a purpose (as I stated those benefits above).

I'm hurting about the RELATIONSHIP and what I'm missing out on - romance, touching, closeness, etc. But missing that is mostly at night when business hours are over and everyone I can be contacting is closed or gone for the day. I am hurting also from the lack of physical help I have here. I don't have a man here geographically close enough to help me with things like heavy lifting or sharing all kinds of daily errands or duties. I'm too busy with other things all during the daylight and business hours to be sitting around otherwise weeping or wishing that I had someone to help me. And when I did have men here, they didn't help anyway, so I'm no more in a worse situation now than I have ever been in the past 25 years.

Now we've gotten to the point where this 4 day span of no communication occurred and an ultimatum has been put out there, so the dynamics are going to be changed even further (possibly the relationship ends completely). That won't change anything, really, except that my health will deteriorate further because breakups ALWAYS hurt, no matter if they are good or bad or whatever. Next week I'll start my work and I will have even less time to "waste" on emotions or anything else.

Knowing the way I work, too, I can be relatively certain I won't be meeting anyone other than in the office. I mean I've been living around here for 21 years and only did not work in the past 7 years, so I know how it goes around here and with me. People do not notice me. They notice my good work though - at work. I am not the kind of person that generally gets asked to any social events - which is why I don't have friends in the area - work has always been just work and while I make acquaintences and I make good impressions on people about my work abilities and pleasant personality, people don't find me for whatever reason the type of person they want to socialize with.

I know I'll be looking like crap by mid-day because of the pain and fatigue I'll be experiencing, so I won't be turning any heads when I'm heading out of the office either. I just hope I'll be able to look presentable enough to be asked to stay on permanently. That's about my only focus right now. Knowing how work affects my abilities and creates limitations on what I can do outside of that exertion of energy, I know when I'm home from work, I'll probably be passed out by 7 or 8 pm. There will be no time or energy or even wakeful state enough to be meeting anyone else.

So I don't see this relationship as a waste really. It just is what it is, and this is perhaps my lot in life, you know. I can ask God for favors, and God may just continue to say "sorry, dear... but this is what I have ordained for you" and then I can say, "Thank you, Lord - then in that case, may I ask to be granted the power to appreciate what you've given me and can you please give me happiness for my lot in life?"

It is when you're that emotionally vested, Epo. Been there, done that. They lie and you want SO badly to believe them...every excuse, every story, every line...you only hear what you want to hear because you want to be with that person so badly and you just don't realize that you're getting played until it's way too late.


And it's also having "been there, done that" in your own life so that what you hear sounds believable. That's what it comes down to for me. I've lived the same life he SAYS he's living. I can believe it easily because I have lived it myself and know it can be absolutely true.

While this is one option, my concern is not so much about the money. I think Alawiy took a calculated risk and knew that she might not get the money back. It's about emotionally manipulative ties that feed false hope.

My goal in my first post was not to completely shoot down you down or anything. I posted because *I* could not in good conscious continue on without saying anything about my reservations based on the story that you've given us. I've known you for 7 months, watched your situation closely, and have gotten to know you pretty well over an extended period of time.

I don't think its because you've said too much that I developed these concerns. I think it's because *he* hasn't done enough to show that this is real. Has he sent you a card in the mail? (only the cost of a stamp!) What other ACTIONS has he taken to be closer to you? (The car doesn't count since that didn't work out...)

I think that rich or poor, you can find a nice Muslim guy in your area who you can get to know in real life and who will love you for who you are. I don't think anyone here is advocating that you find some rich Bay Area guy to take care of you monitarily. But I do think that you can find someone who can take care of you emotionally, day in and day out; who is dependable, who you can talk to when you want to, who's address you know, who's schedule you can figure out, who will follow through on something when it's promised.

And I know that no matter what I say, it probably won't help. I feel bad saying it, but I'd feel worse if I didn't.


Oh yes, I know Naznoor's true issues are not with the repayment of the money, but rather lack of follow through on promises he's made. I was just looking for some sort of immediate "test" she could give him, to give her some peace of mind right now. He could easily afford $50.00 per month or maybe even less. The point is, if he doesn't come through with the first payment, he's probably never gonna come through on his promises. That was my thinking....

I'm hurting about the RELATIONSHIP and what I'm missing out on - romance, touching, closeness, etc. But missing that is mostly at night when business hours are over and everyone I can be contacting is closed or gone for the day. I am hurting also from the lack of physical help I have here. I don't have a man here geographically close enough to help me with things like heavy lifting or sharing all kinds of daily errands or duties. I'm too busy with other things all during the daylight and business hours to be sitting around otherwise weeping or wishing that I had someone to help me. And when I did have men here, they didn't help anyway, so I'm no more in a worse situation now than I have ever been in the past 25 years.

I bet a whole of us can relate to that! I can, that's for sure, and that is exactly why I worry so much about you. Because you may not realize it, but you are in a worse situation! You are staking your dreams on something that is an illusion at a time in life when you really need solid ground!

Oddly, in that one paragraph, you nicely summarize everything that is wrong with long distance relationships.

Sweetie, I want to join with those who say you should be paying attention to those big red flags waving around your head. And in particular, the quote above.

If this is how all the men you've had in your life treat you, I really think you need to stop and consider the ways in which you're allowing that to happen.

Yeah, that's why I posted that - I am trying to figure that out, and it was an "aha" moment that all the guys I know seem to be having this time perception problem. And I mean, not just men I have been involved with, but people I have worked with, too. So somehow I'm allowing myself to be surrounded by people like this - in and outside of personal relationships. I am not sure what would be the clue from the start to identify such people, especially in work situations. Is there an interview question I can ask?

When I posted that comment, I was thinking about co-workers at the software company, and then also especially the lawyers at the law firm I worked for for 5 years. I used to laugh at them when they would tell me such and such would take an hour to complete, and I would always plan my days so that I allowed 4 times more what the lawyers had guessed it would take to do. That "system" I had served me very well.

I may be remembering it through rose colored glasses, but in my memory, the first few months of this relationship (until the point when he was switching jobs) he WAS calling on time. That's why the past couple of months has been so frustrating to me because I COULD count on him to at least CALL when he said he would (and then some). He's never been a computer person. Some people aren't. (I just got an email last night from a college friend who just got a computer and hooked up on line 6 weeks ago).

What he wasn't doing as promised was making an expensive visit across the country. Each time that he was making that plan, there was something financial that got in the way.... almost identical to the way my life always goes.



This may sound harsh, but in my experience, very often, men treat women the way women let themselves be treated. One of the cast iron markers for me that the guy I'm with is a keeper is that he doesn't pull this crap. He calls when he says he will, he is considerate, he knows what's happening with you and he responds accordingly.

I understand that and it's not harsh. That's why at the beginning few months of this relationship, I thought he was a keeper, too. Except for the trips that kept getting put off, the rest of what he did and said and I could "observe" from a distance in how he goes through life and treats people, etc. - that was all consistent and good.

We've all been with the guy who doesn't call, isn't considerate, seems oblivious when we're going through a hard time - and we all make excuses for them because we want to believe he's worth it. He didn't call for a few days? Maybe he's sick, or tired, or busy, or can't get to a phone, or mislaid our phone number or, blah blah blah.

His excuse is he fell asleep. Lost track of the days. Again - I admit that could be bullshit. On the other hand, it's happened to ME. So I can also say it's possible he's telling the truth about it.

Let me clarify this: In the past few months, the time he has had on the phone with me (computer has been out of the picture except the first meeting, and this past month) has been getting shorter and shorter. But one of the things that I posted about before and that I did admire about him is that he WOULD call if he was going to be unable to talk to me when expected. He WOULD call to say "I'm so tired, can we talk tomorrow" or "I have to <do this or that> so I will call you later. I know you were expecting me to call, and I didn't want you to worry." There was one time in the beginning that he didn't call as expected and when I talked to him about it, he immediately changed his behavior in that regard. I think I even posted that here on the forums somewhere. That's why I was freaking and started this thread :) It was "out of character" for him to be incommunicado for so long.

I know you've invested a lot in this relationship and want it to work out. But consider: this guy is showing you his character.

Let me clarify this, too: I hear you all. I am agreeing with you all. I have the same thoughts in my head (especially when you all write them out to me here). When I am responding, I am sharing with you all where I'm coming from, too. Mostly I'm "discussing" out loud. You're seeing my thought processes as I write. But my thought processes don't usually leave me stuck in the same place. They move me forward. I think if the opposite were true, I'd be a depressed and incapacitated person, or I would never have left two bad marriages.

He goes to sleep instead of calling you for two minutes to say, I'm so tired, I can't talk for long, but I wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

And just to repeat: This is what he has done LATELY, but it IS against his other pattern that I was happy with.

He doesn't read your emails for four days - no one in love at this stage of a relationship ignores the other's communications for four days.

He shouldn't expect emails from me because we haven't been in that kind of communication normally. Maybe 98% of the past 9 months has been phone conversations and no use of the computer. (And he texted me once, but I am not savvy with a cell phone myself, so I didn't reply to that and I never send text messages to anyone.)

He can't get it together to come and visit you and always has some increasingly implausible excuse.

I agree with the number of excuses being too much. I can't however agree with them being implausible. They sound like perfectly possible obstacles to me having had the same obstacles myself.

Do you want to be married to someone who treats you like this? Because that's what's in your future if this "works out".

Nope. Not if this is his "usual" behavior. I would like to be married to the kind of man he appeared to be for the first few months though. The "plan" from June is for him to be here before September. He knows if he's not, my intention is to break it off completely. We tried to talk last night, but I couldn't stay awake. He kept trying to stay awake, too, and he thanked me for trying to stay awake. We have to talk more tonight - if I can stay awake, that is. I really tried last night, but I just couldn't keep my eyes open and thoughts formed coherently.

You are worth so much more than this and you should be with someone who is marvelling over your generosity of spirit, not taking advantage of it.

I agree

I really think you should cut your losses and move on.

It may happen - sooner than you all think. If it doesn't happen soon, and it goes on for some time longer, it's because I have certain questions I personally would like answered, and I'll be trying to get the answers.

"I'm invisible to everyone else anyway (for many reasons), so while I'm frustrated with everything the way it's turned out, and with all I have had to deal with the past 25 years and this past year especially, he's been a good distraction from most of the "real life"
"At this particular time, in "real life", there are absolutely no other options that I'm turning down or wasting just because I'm with this YM long distance in his fantasy if it be that."


I TOTALLY understand where you are coming from here. It's just that until you open your mind and heart to the possibility that there could be someone who will love you the way you deserve, and really be there for you, and decide that YOU WON"T SETTLE FOR LESS, because being really alone would be better than settling, then I'm afraid you will continue in this pattern. I did the same thing. And it isn't something you can really explain to anyone, they just have to travel the road themselves.

I still hope for the best for you in every way!

Gosh, I had to join the bandwagon here, but you know that I care about you a lot and you are one of my favorite posters on this board.

Thanks, Miu - and you know the feeling is mutual :)

Focus on making your decisions based only on what is best for you and your daughters. Put your YM totally out of your mind at this time. I feel that if nothing else happens with him, his purpose of offering you some emotional comfort in the past is fine, but now it may be time to move on. Since visiting or moving out to you is so difficult for him this year, count him out for the next year and just rent a place that is best for you and your two girls. If you find a perfect house with an extra bedroom, consider renting it out to a nice quiet foreign grad student or get an au pair to help with your chores.

It's a boy and a girl, not two girls. I have "counted him out" as of my conversation with him yesterday when he surprised me with the afternoon phone call. I pressured him to stay on the phone long enough to answer some questions and I told him I would be making decisions based on that he's not coming out here at all.

No au pair - that costs money I wouldn't have :) I think they make about $45K around here at least - that's more than I would bring home from the job :)

And honestly, your YM has no business taking an absentee roommate's car and driving it out to California to see you. It doesn't even sound like your YM has clearly asked this guy if he can just take it to California, he's just taking advance of the loophole that the roommate hasn't set any restrictions on the borrowing of his car. And that idea just has "future train wreck" plastered all over it. And what if the roommate becomes lax on the insurance payments? As I suggested before... Greyhound. YM just have bad luck with cars at that age.

Another confusion, due I'm sure to my long windedness: Several cars are in this history:

1) YM's car: broken down, no insurance coverage anymore, has been sitting unused many many months (or a year).

2) YM's various friend's vehicles or work vehicles that he used either driving himself (borrowing) or that he was given rides in to and fro. December: First trip to visit me is cancelled because cars slid on the ice and he and another driver collided. He did not understand that insurance pays when the other driver hits HIM, but he didn't want to have his friend's car and name involved anyway, so he just paid for the repair costs to the other driver's car himself. (And after that, he sent money to his father in Detroit for him to buy snow tires, too).

3) Roommate's car. He didn't just plan to take it when the roommate was gone. The roommate gave him permission to use it. But my YM decided INSTEAD to get his OWN car put back on the road, repaired, and covered by insurance. Sometime recently now - I'm getting forgetful of exact dates - after he switched from the first job, after he tried starting the business and that didn't work out, and after he started the second job, he used money saved to get HIS OWN car repaired, back on the road, and then covered by insurance.

4) HIS OWN CAR (X2). The day he had his car repaired and back on the road, and covered with insurance, he wrecked it. Driving slowly on a residential street, but he was messing with the radio or something, and hit a pole. Thus, the need to put it back to a shop and have it repaired again. Because he is friends with a mechanic, his solution was to go to the junk yard and get the replacement parts there, then have the friendly mechanic do the repairs for a little less cost than it would be than to take it elsewhere. If he reported this to the insurance company, that would no doubt have raised his insurance, so he probably didn't report that (I don't know, but I wouldn't if it was me). Finding the junk yard parts took a few days. The repair work took a few days. He's paid for the repairs, it's back on the road again.

So the kindest thing that I can say is just think about yourself and your family first and for the next year, and if your YM comes through next year, it will be icing on your cake. Personally, I am hoping with your new job, you will have opportunities to meet all kinds of new and wonderful people, and amongst them perhaps a future special person in your life. You deserve better and it's long overdue that you find a man that will instead take care of you. :yes:

Not unlike thoughts of my own. But then you're always in my head anyway, aren't you? :D

What all men typically want from poor women they pursue: Affection, sex, companionship, a roof over their head provided the woman has one... and last but not least, a claim on any future earnings the woman will bring in. :D

Right??


LOL.. perhaps. The poor men in my family never pursued those things (okay, they pursued affection, sex and companionship - same as me).

You know that I care....I hope!
OK, YES, you are turning down other offers whether you see it or not.
By not completely closing one door you automatically, deep down, are not seeing the offers that are all around you.
If you "happen" to fall for someone far away, that is one thing.
To say that all of the potentials are of greater distance away is A...not true and B. why would you even consider going through an LDR again in the first place.
Karen...bottom line, you are not happy and that, trust me, carries over into ALL areas of your life.
Truly, he does not make you happy.....I don't care what you say. He makes you nervous, you are ALWAYS wondering this or that about your relationship, you have not met......this is ridiculous and you are worth so much more than that.
I wish you could see this.
You have a new job, you are going to get a new place, etc...Don't take anymore old baggage to your new life than you absolutely must.
Blessings, TD

1) YM's car: broken down, no insurance coverage anymore, has been sitting unused many many months (or a year).

2) YM's various friend's vehicles or work vehicles that he used either driving himself (borrowing) or that he was given rides in to and fro. December: First trip to visit me is cancelled because cars slid on the ice and he and another driver collided. He did not understand that insurance pays when the other driver hits HIM, but he didn't want to have his friend's car and name involved anyway, so he just paid for the repair costs to the other driver's car himself. (And after that, he sent money to his father in Detroit for him to buy snow tires, too).

3) Roommate's car. He didn't just plan to take it when the roommate was gone. The roommate gave him permission to use it. But my YM decided INSTEAD to get his OWN car put back on the road, repaired, and covered by insurance. Sometime recently now - I'm getting forgetful of exact dates - after he switched from the first job, after he tried starting the business and that didn't work out, and after he started the second job, he used money saved to get HIS OWN car repaired, back on the road, and then covered by insurance.

4) HIS OWN CAR (X2). The day he had his car repaired and back on the road, and covered with insurance, he wrecked it. Driving slowly on a residential street, but he was messing with the radio or something, and hit a pole. Thus, the need to put it back to a shop and have it repaired again. Because he is friends with a mechanic, his solution was to go to the junk yard and get the replacement parts there, then have the friendly mechanic do the repairs for a little less cost than it would be than to take it elsewhere. If he reported this to the insurance company, that would no doubt have raised his insurance, so he probably didn't report that (I don't know, but I wouldn't if it was me). Finding the junk yard parts took a few days. The repair work took a few days. He's paid for the repairs, it's back on the road again

Oh Naznoor, you are such an intelligent, thoughtful and genuine woman. After reading the above, either your YM has the worst luck of anyone on the planet, or it took him a long time to formulate the car stories... I do so hope that this works out for you.... Girlfriend you deserve only the very best, and I wish that he turns out to be the best, for you.

Have you webcammed with this guy to be sure he is, who he says he is? Also, if he is working, why don't you work out a payment plan with him, say $50.00 per month starting Aug 1st. If that first payment arrives, you'll know he's at least on the level.....

That's a good idea. Thanks. No I hadn't thought about the repayment, because to be honest, I haven't been thinking about that at all. I've been focusing on trying to get a job. Repayment of that money won't go far, even if paid in one lump sum. After many struggles with trying to find different solutions, my only option is to get a long term job, so that's what I've been focusing on.

He had hooked up a web cam once back in early December, and it didn't work properly. He sent camera phone pictures instead - sent directly from the phone and not from his computer. We rarely use the computer to communicate. He's seen me on the web cam from my side a couple of times. I've sent him pictures, too.

I've been happily married before to a man that I never web cammed with, and who I did not find particularly physically attractive once I met him. I understand you're concerned with whether he has represented himself to me as he truly is.

I can't possibly write everything about this relationship and what I've found out and all else here on these boards (I've spent too much time today already). But what I have shared is basically - the problem that he's not come for that important visit - to see if we click in person the same as on the phone because if we do, the plan is to be married.

Let me make this clear: The plan was never to be married without that in face meeting. If it were the plan that we would marry before meeting, we could have done that because Islamic clerics these days have issued fatwas allowing for phone and internet type marriages (with detailed requirements as to who must be present at each side and how that should be carried out).

So it's clear to him now, as of yesterday, that our initial agreed upon deadline of 2 years from beginning of our relationship to being married before we call it quits, isn't satisfactory anymore. In other words, we both agreed early on that we would try to meet, and get together and marry, but if after 2 years that didn't happen, we agreed we would go our separate ways and call it a good effort. But as of yesterday, he knows I can't wait that long, and that I won't.

I know that many people have had relationships on line or on phone or web camming or whatever for years and years before they meet up and maybe marry, too. I'm just not that patient. I could be that patient if I was in different life circumstances. But he has known from the beginning that I am physically challenged, and that I need someone here NOW. That's what the "ultimatum" is about - he's got to be here for me, or I'm out of this now.

Of course, the reality is that without him, I'll still struggle. That won't magically disappear just because I break it off with him.

Well.....

I hope things work out. Your last post reflects what you believe, and it is kind of sad....all that explanation and rationaliztion for his immature/inconsiderate behavior. But, as Marcy said, if this is a fulfilling relationship for you, who are we to judge?


However, the title of this thread suggests it is not as rosy a situation as you tend to try to paint when you are making rationalizations for his decisions and actions....I am actually not even sure what kind of support you are seeking, as you deflect any criticism of his actions. I can only assume that this IS an acceptable way for someone to treat you - in your mind - and therefore, I cannot relate or give adequate support for your situation.

Good luck. I sincerely hope your path is a gentle one....

Thanks Epo. I think I was posting because I was beside myself that he had seemingly disappeared after 9 months of being able to count on his contact almost daily. After 9 months of consistent behavior, it seemed uncharacteristic of him. I posted because I wondered if anyone from this site lives in his area and could help me get in touch with him or find out if he was alright.

My "deflecting criticism" is my attempt to clarify things as it seems from my side here that either I have confused people a lot by writing too much, or I have not said enough about other things as to leave it up to your assumptions what's going on. I have seen, for example, the confusion about the car situation. Somehow I didn't explain that very well and you all got the wrong information.

Also, I'm agreeing and taking in what people are telling me here, but I'm also sharing personal experiences from my past that come to mind through all of this - experiences that are similar to what seems to be happening to the YM and that seem to be plausible.

It's like my daughter coming to me and saying "I have a headache, so I want to lay down and do my homework later." I'm not automatically going to assume she's just making an excuse to not do her homework. I'm going to say, "Hmm.. yeah I get headaches and fatigued, too. I know if I push myself while I'm feeling fatigued and in pain, I can't do a good job, but if I take a little nap, I'll have more energy and can do the work a lot better then. Go ahead and lie down a while and start your work again later."

I've said this before. I really want to have faith in this relationship and I want to believe that you are not being used. I consider myself a pretty gullible person when it comes to men, but your story and all these excuses make my stomach churn, because like Epo and the others, I cannot quite figure out why you have such faith in a person who you have not even met and who has not made good on any of his promises.

There are certain money matters that were hammered out early in my relationship with my YM, and yes folks, I have paid a cell phone bill, paid for an airline ticket for him, helped him pay for his copyright, but always in such transactions, there was a paper trail. I knew exactly where my money was going and as much as I love him, I did not put blind trust in him. I spoke with his attorney and payed the attorney directly and received a receipt.

I have never allowed access to my bank account or credit card numbers although I know his account number and pin number because I was there when we set up his checking. I see his pay stubs and I see the monthly bills on the apartment we share rent on. My point being, I know a lot more about him than he knows about me when it comes to financial assets. Am I a meal ticket? I think that could be debated if one felt that OW should assume no financial responsibility for their YM. The point is, there is a paper trail! What you have is word of mouth from someone who has kept none of their promises and that you really haven't met!:fryingpan:

I whole heartedly agree that there is a difference in how people without money regard money. He laughs when I talk about planning for my retirement, because in his world you work until you die. But, his poverty does not excuse you from not being more hands on with your finances! I'm not Suze Orman, but at this moment I feel like it. You are banking on a shaky investment in more ways than one! And sadly, the pocket that he is really picking, is your heart!

There's a paper trail. Why? How does one send money to someone else without a papertrail? I sent it by Western Union where they take your photo during the transactions, and they write down all your personal information. If his information is not the same as what he's given me, that's there, too. I can find out where he picked it up. If I wanted the expense of going after $1,000 repayment (which cost would be more than $1,000 to persue, I'm sure), I am sure we could find him.

In your last post, I read a lot of 'suppose' this, 'suppose that' regarding your partner - don't you think it is time to have a straight talk with him instead of 'supposing'?

The few posts of yours that I have read, always leave me thinking ... so much heartache already.

Those were rhetorical questions to the posters here. They were "what if you knew this?" or "What if you were in a situation like that" (with those specific details - assuming you knew they were true) - what would you do?

Sorry, I don't make my writing clear sometimes between what is and what are thought processes I'm having.
Forum posts tend to be a lot of me "thinking out loud". I'll try to be more clear in making these distinctions.

While this is one option, my concern is not so much about the money. I think Alawiy took a calculated risk and knew that she might not get the money back. It's about emotionally manipulative ties that feed false hope.

My goal in my first post was not to completely shoot down you down or anything. I posted because *I* could not in good conscious continue on without saying anything about my reservations based on the story that you've given us. I've known you for 7 months, watched your situation closely, and have gotten to know you pretty well over an extended period of time.

I don't think its because you've said too much that I developed these concerns. I think it's because *he* hasn't done enough to show that this is real. Has he sent you a card in the mail? (only the cost of a stamp!) What other ACTIONS has he taken to be closer to you? (The car doesn't count since that didn't work out...)

I think that rich or poor, you can find a nice Muslim guy in your area who you can get to know in real life and who will love you for who you are. I don't think anyone here is advocating that you find some rich Bay Area guy to take care of you monitarily. But I do think that you can find someone who can take care of you emotionally, day in and day out; who is dependable, who you can talk to when you want to, who's address you know, who's schedule you can figure out, who will follow through on something when it's promised.

And I know that no matter what I say, it probably won't help. I feel bad saying it, but I'd feel worse if I didn't.

Thanks for your concern about hurting me by what you say, but you haven't, so don't worry about that.

It was I that sent him the card in the mail. That is how I know of the true existence of one of the addresses (between the different work addresses and home) that he's given me. I maybe should have sent it to the home address, but I sent it to the business address where he was going to be doing his business.

Yes, the money sent was a business risk, that I did calculate, with the understanding that I may not ever see it again. You're right I don't concern myself so much with that. I don't know that it's totally not obtainable still either, but that's not my focus. It was a good idea that Coloradogrl had to ask for it to be repaid in small installments though.

Don't know about finding a muslim man here in my area. LOL.. It hasn't happened yet anyway in 21 years, but since I'm not all that religious (ceremonially speaking), and the closest mosques either don't like women there, or are in the middle of drug infested high crime areas, I don't attend the mosques to be seen there. During any single years here in the Bay Area, I've been holed up, literally working night and day, so no outside socializing or chance to be seen at all. There was a muslim guy at the company I worked for, but he was all into the pretty young receptionist and he wouldn't even look at me to say hello. (Fanatical, in a way - good Muslim men and women are not supposed to notice each other, we are to avert our gaze from each other, which he did with regard to me, but not with regard to the pretty young receptionist! LOL)

I tried joining a local muslim networking thing once, and it went nowhere. But who knows? I just know from my past 21 years here, I don't seem to be attractive to people in this area - muslim or not.

Alawiy - Well as long as you know that you have a huge fan club here... and given his current track record with cars, don't under any circumstanced let him drive out to see you. Greyhound.

The story about him wrecking his car while driving down a residential street fiddling with his radio, reminded me of a similar story that happened to a 28 year old man in CT. Let's see... he was driving down a rural highway when he saw a deer carcass on the side of the road, he then looked down so he could pick up his coffee cup to drink from it when BAM! He hit a deer. He got pissed that I questioned his decision to hold a cup of coffee in his hand when clearly there was deer activity in the immediate area.

And this is why it's so dangerous to drive and talk on a cellphone at the same time. A driver must always keep his focus on the road, no matter how boring the drive is, the driver must still be at 100% full attention. I've even had a bird drop out of the sky and bounce off my windshield on a busy interstate highway. You just never know...

Anyway, big HUGS and I do realize that your YM has been of some emotional comfort to you. And we all care a great deal for you.

it's not so crazy and is pretty commonly done that way in many of the Islamic cultures.However, usually the families know the other family and the character of the betrothed. All you know, when one is in a LD/Internet relationship, is what they tell you. This is only one dimension and certainly not enough to base a marriage proposal on.

I am not thinking that your YM is a con or anything like that, but that he has problems with responsibility. That may or may not change in time.

I know how hard it is to raise kids as a single parent. My heart goes out to you. I hope you find some happiness really soon... you deserve it. :)

Oh man... you seem like a really nice person so I don't want to say anything to hurt your feelings.

You are under the microscope re: custody of your child (children?) for financial reasons, had issues with finding employment (I'm so glad that worked out for you! :) ), and have sent money to someone you have never met who claims not to have enough money to come see you for him to invest in a business.

I know there are other factors, emotional ones, that form the flesh of the facts here, but the above are the bones.

I think you need to ask yourself why you have decided this is good enough for you.

I am holding my tongue (or fingers, as it were), but you need to understand how this looks to an outsider... like really poor judgement. I'm very sorry. :(

I realize that. I'm wondering as I read the posts here, how many people have been in my shoes. My life has been so full of "events" that it's really hard to tell parts of it here. I'll say this: It's not at all uncommon for people who are in desperate situations with their jobs to consider investing money in a business. Sometimes that's the only chance you've got of making any income at all. However, most of the time, people invest $5 a week for years and years to play the lottery and never win or they get loans themselves (in the thousands or hundreds of thousands) to open some kind of business and hope that they will be among the staticical "sucesses" who make a profit after 7 to 10 years of operation. 900,000 small businesses open up every year in the United States, and every year about 800,000 close down again in their first year of operation because it didn't work out. It's like the lottery (which is against the law of Islam), except that when you invest in a business, there is actually someone working and should be someone working in a business that is not "haram" or not permitted. (Like I wouldn't have invested in stock of a company that makes alcohol or sells pork, for example).

His business is a TV sales and repair operation that he very clearly detailed to me in the way he intended to run the business. He was debating whether to borrow the money from his friends or me, but he said if he got the money from them, it would be split outside of the "family" that we planned to be. If he borrowed it from me, then the profit would be "ours" together. The business plan involved contracting and managing a certified TV repairman who is also certified to fix the latest high tech TVs (I can't recall at the moment what those are called), so the $1,000 investment was going to not only help get a business started for one person, but would hopefully be a source of income for a second person (the repairman who would take a cut of the fee, the other part being the profit that we would make), and it would be a source of income for us, too. The $1,000 went towards buying TV parts for the repairman to use, and also toward buying some TV's that are new and he can sell at full retail price. He made some money already, but just not enough in as quick amount of time as he expected to. And when it was clear to him that the business wasn't going to be as quickly profitable as he thought it would be (I wasn't surprised - I gave him a much longer time frame in which to repay the money), he got disappointed and said he didn't want to pay me back a year or two later as I had given him. He wanted to pay me back sooner, so that's the reason he went to work at the second job which he started in June.

So I gave him 2 years to repay the money, but after just 2 months when he didn't have it to pay back, he stated he'll work and pay me back within a couple more months instead.

Oh yes, I know Naznoor's true issues are not with the repayment of the money, but rather lack of follow through on promises he's made. I was just looking for some sort of immediate "test" she could give him, to give her some peace of mind right now. He could easily afford $50.00 per month or maybe even less. The point is, if he doesn't come through with the first payment, he's probably never gonna come through on his promises. That was my thinking....

Yeah, that's a good idea.. and thanks for that. I will ask him for that the very next time I talk to him.

.

I bet a whole of us can relate to that! I can, that's for sure, and that is exactly why I worry so much about you. Because you may not realize it, but you are in a worse situation! You are staking your dreams on something that is an illusion at a time in life when you really need solid ground!

Oddly, in that one paragraph, you nicely summarize everything that is wrong with long distance relationships.


yes... but I would say I am "hoping" for something better in the future, but not staking everything on it. I'm not expecting it. But heck yea, I'm hoping for something like that. Why wouldn't anyone hope for things to be better when this has been their whole life up to this point?

And yes, that's what's wrong with long distance relationships and why he has until September to do something about what HIS dreams and hopes are that match mine in this sense. If he can't, we've got to split up. But at the same time, I also realize that just splitting up with him isn't going to change my situation either. I WAS hoping by now that we'd already have been together and we're not, so it's VERY CLEAR that I cannot depend on anyone to help me. I have to do all myself. And like someone else posted here, if YM decides to step up to the plate or something, that will be icing on the cake.

"I'm invisible to everyone else anyway (for many reasons), so while I'm frustrated with everything the way it's turned out, and with all I have had to deal with the past 25 years and this past year especially, he's been a good distraction from most of the "real life"
"At this particular time, in "real life", there are absolutely no other options that I'm turning down or wasting just because I'm with this YM long distance in his fantasy if it be that."


I TOTALLY understand where you are coming from here. It's just that until you open your mind and heart to the possibility that there could be someone who will love you the way you deserve, and really be there for you, and decide that YOU WON"T SETTLE FOR LESS, because being really alone would be better than settling, then I'm afraid you will continue in this pattern. I did the same thing. And it isn't something you can really explain to anyone, they just have to travel the road themselves.

I still hope for the best for you in every way!

Thanks, and I understand what you're saying. It's like this: If you're a one man woman (which I am), then if you're in love with the one man, you're not going to notice anyone else.

But having been in this situation, and out and about taking care of my motherly and life duties in general, and being the "Madame Curie" that I am (LOL), I do take notice of what's going on around me. I also believe in the possibilities of meeting the "one" when you think you're already with "the one". But I'm just saying nothing like that ever has happened to me, at least not here in the Bay Area.

I hate to say this, but here in the Bay Area, there are a lot of racist people - and I'm not the right race for most of them. They will tell you that themselves. I think that's why I'm not noticed so much here.

Oh wait.. I just remembered there have been two guys that hit on me. One was the furnace repairman who couldn't fix the furnace and I was telling him what he should do (which worked). I did take advantage of his attraction towards me when he offered some discount on the bill just because I looked nice. But I was disgusted by the way he was almost grabbing me. I was glad when he left, and even more glad when the thermostat stopped working and the owner of the company came out and informed me the other guy was fired because he was doing that to all the women customers.

And the second guy I met was the same - wouldn't leave and get away from me, and made me VERY uncomfortable. I was trying to do a freecycle giveaway of all my ex's stuff left behind here.

There was one guy who I met at a party one time. I was with my first husband and my husband was abusing me in public. The other people were fellow law students. This one guy slipped his phone number in my pocket and told me if it ever got to be too much for me, to give him a call. I was kind of put off at the time that someone would approach another man's wife like that. I thought it made him seem a bit sleezy, but I don't know.

Other than those 3 times, nobody has ever glanced twice at me. I do a lot of glancing though - my mom told me never to go into private investigations because I'm too obvious LOL. I smile at people, too (men and women) who happen to catch me looking their way. So I don't think I'm just being unapproachable. I think I just am not most people's cup of tea here.

Oh by the way - I am NEVER this verbose in "real life". I have a knack for writing a lot and getting a lot of thoughts down on paper, but it never comes out of my mouth to this extent! LOL (ever!) I only talk a bit after I have gotten to know people and feel comfortable with them. That was one attraction I had to my YM - that we could have long interesting conversations and I wasn't even WRITING them! Usually I'm not a phone talker, either, so it is kind of amazing that I have had such a nice long phone relationship.